Bitcoin Forum

Big statement thread title haha.

Watched click on the weekend, talking about Quantum computers, they're a long long way off. I enjoy science so understand the basic theory behind quantum physics, from quantum entanglement to Schrödinger cats theory.

If the binary digits can be both 1 and 0 at the same time means that any calculation can instantaneously be worked out.

therefor when and if we ever seen Quantum computers surely they could effectively solve the entire blockchain algorithm instantly.

That's my basic understanding. So effectively crypto is not really a future currency so to speak.

Any thoughts.... I'm probably complete wrong haha

I agree.  But you are not going to get anyone to drop their coins right now because of it.

People do not care about the future.  They only care about right now.  

Shortsightedness must be an evolutionary trait. 

It might not completely blow crypto out of the water though; they're just 3600 times as fast as a supercomputer. (don't entirely trust the source)

So that wouldn't end it right? wouldn't the prices for the coins massively drop ,only to then be mined to the extend that we are back fromm were we left off.

Or do you guys think people wouldn't bother anymore?

I've been thinking about this lately and came to this conclusion.

When/If we get quantum computers we will know about this ahead of time. All that needs to happen is that we change the cryptography to quantum resistant tech. If that's possible I'm not sure but since it's just code I'm going to say it is.

People will have to transfer their cryptos to these new quantum resistant addresses on each blockchain.

Any coins left in older addresses will be susceptible to quantum attacks.

Aren't they just computers but alot faster? how would you be able to block them form making new coins won't they just have ways to work around the blocks?

With a little anticipation, it will definitely not end crypto. There are already some project that are quantum resistant, and I believe more and more coins will add this feature, as the threat become bigger every day.

Of course, if you don't pay attention, if you don't update your wallet, if you don't sell the coins that are the most exposed, etc... Yes, you might end up robbed. Just basic safety. You wouldn't store your gold on your kitchen table. You don't want virus / malwares / trojans on your crypto computer, and as the time goes, you might want to reduce your potential exposure to quantum tech.

By the way, we are still far from home user quantum computer (about 15 millions $ I believe), but they already exist in few labs around the world, and I guess in some giant techs companies as well. So the threat is already here, even if, for now I doubt the few quantum owners give a shit about hacking crypto.

I agree with above. As far as I understand it, quantum computers should be really good in some computations while they will not be suitable for some others. Therefore, new algorithms will have to be incorporated for mining and encryption.

IMHO biggest problem will be brute force attacks. Quantum computers should be able to crack some passwords which are considered secure these days.

I can see that happening.
But it will be just seen as the next evolution of what crypto is right now.
It is a natural progression. ;D

I disagree because cryptocurrencies are going to solve this issue by making changes in their protocols before that happens. 

Exactly. They are already working on it with coins such as QRL.

No point getting fearful and stopping yourself making money now in the next few years anyways.

Quantum computers are still in their infancy, but by 2027 they will be able to crack elliptical cryptography, on which digital signatures are based, confirming the ownership of tokens in Bitcoin's blockade and other crypto-currencies. For protection, it is necessary to start developing technology that is used to  Verification of transactions in the chains of the distributed POW registry.

No, they won't

It works both ways. New technology (i.e. quantum computers) can be used for both breaking and fixing cryptography.

Basically, quantum computers can break current cryptography and make it useless, but the very same properties of quantum computers allow us to modify cryptography and crypto-currencies to prevent or fix this. Now, of course bitcoin and other coins must be updated when required.

This video explains this in a better way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H_9l9N3IXU
(Particularly SSL, but it can be applied to cryptography in general)

Andreas Antonopulos recently said:
Ever since I was born not a single atom of my body remains in place, however what always remains is a pattern that shapes me into who I am.
Similarly what will remain of Bitcoin in its present form will only be its name and it will continuously evolve in line with present technological and market requirements.

At the time he was only addressing scaling issue and its technological resolution, but there is also no doubt that cryptocurrency technology will change over time and by the time we have quantum computers we will also have quantum resistant Bitcoin.

What makes you think we, normal users, will have access to quantum computers?
If an evil goverment or evil comporation creates a quantum computer (a real one, not the trash produced right now), it can destroy any network. We don't even know if they already have one.

We (and by that I mean someone) don't actually need a quantum computer. We just need the basics.
As described in the video I linked, we can use the basic properties of quantum to improve the encryption algorithms.
While an actual quantum computer is required to hack, less than that is needed to protect cryptography against it.

I guess it's possible some government is finishing developing it without anyone else knowing, but I find that very unlikely.

i watched the video thank you for the easy explanation  first time to know what is a quantum computer i hope what you'r saying is true that we are safe
but from what my simple mind understand that we need a quantum resistance coin as soon as possible the crypto currencies world is a revolutionary system i hope all this work doesn't go to waste just because of quantum phisx

So far they have succeeded to sustain quantum particles like few seconds or half a second, last time I read about it. But this shouldn't be a big issue as when we will see this coming we can simply make a tweak within bitcoin software that will enable larger private keys and public keys so we can even make it more difficult to crack. Although then I'd assume that somebody could dig out lost coins, or even take the possession of satoshies coins if they don't move later down the road when quantum computers become a standard. Although I'd give them like 5-10years and after we can see how far have scientists really went. Until now there's no point to worry about such thing.

Last I heard, they've still only been able to maintain fewer than a dozen qubits for long enough to perform computations. You need around 1500 to attack Bitcoin keys. There are also well-known ways of doing asymmetric crypto using QC-secure symmetric primitives. See my article here, which is still correct a couple years after I wrote it: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Quantum_computing_and_Bitcoin

While it is something to keep in the back of our minds for 5 or 10 or more years in the future, I'm not worried about quantum computers at all right now.

People who have a lot to lose from crypto getting bigger maybe investing heavily into getting something working asap so they can cause a huge meltdown in crypto markets. I hope it never happens, but I will personally be taking profits along the way. It may take longer to reach my goal, but at least I will not be left holding worthless coins if something goes wrong.

That said I not worried for the next year or so :)

We are currently only able to generate 15 or 49 qbit processors, which is a modest number to mention about building a quantum computer.

However, with the rapid development of science and technology, we can expect that in the next 10 years, we will have the first quantum computer with a billion times greater power than current computers.

In the light scenario for cryptoworld, quantum computers are used to solve the problems of scalability, speed or the nature of blockchain technology, we will get the network at the rate of billions tps.

In another dark scenario, quantum computing is the property of a big company, or of a whole nation, since no private farm has the capacity / opportunity to build a quantum computer at the stadium size. That could be a way for the government to control the crypto community because the quantum computer is so powerful. Forget the concepts of "attack 51%", because there will be "attack 90%", forget the decentralization because most of the power of the system is in the hands of the government.

I wrote about this very issue as a limitation in my whitepaper. 

"Although we feel that Hyperledger Fabric is the best solution for enterprise blockchain use cases, we did find
some limitations in the solution. Currently, data is encrypted before it is stored in the chain code. If the data is
shared with all the nodes, then all nodes will have a copy of the encrypted data but they will not have the key
required to encrypt the data. The potential issue with this approach is that data on the ledger is immutable and
can be potentially held there for years. At some point, years down the line, our quantum computing power will
evolve and today’s encryption technique will be compromised and may expose all of the data across the nodes.
But with proper governance in place, an organization can adopt a proper migration strategy to mitigate this
risk."

But I'm not sure what we can do to protect against this, are there any serious projects that are addressing this need?

Will appear new quantum crypto coins :)

It would be cryptocurrency under the management of a state or large organization, and that token would go against the purpose and value of the crypto community. No one wants to support quantum tokens.

Moreover, most current mining operating systems on Windows or Linux have built-in quantum-resistance functions.

If I remember correctly IBM has a Quantum computer you can play around with online.
They want to observe what people would do with it to give them ideas!

Either way I would check it out if you're really interested!
Here's the link:

It's all about the cryptography algorithm- there are Quantum resistant encryption algorithms (https://www.nist.gov/publications/quantum-resistant-public-key-cryptography-survey?pub_id=901595) that aren't being used widely, but are being used by some organizations (namely intelligence organizations and research labs)- mainly because the overhead isn't worth it. Even AES can be Quantum resistant given a large enough key size. Sorry to burst the science fiction- QC will greatly increase computational capability but it won't lead to the ability to calculate all possible solutions to all possible mathematical problems instantly.

Yes it could.
However there are already coins trading in the top 10 that are quantum resistant.

Well let's worry about bitcoin not going below $1000 first than to worry about quantum computers..

Hey there,

--And that’s how quantum computers pose a significant risk to Bitcoin.  “The elliptic curve signature scheme used by Bitcoin is much more at risk, and could be completely broken by a quantum computer as early as 2027,” say Aggarwal and co.

The quote above is from a great read that delves into the discussion you started. Check it out through the link below...

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609408/quantum-computers-pose-imminent-threat-to-bitcoin-security/

I don't understand why we are concerned about what Quantum computer will do to bitcoin in the future whether its going to end crypto or not, one thing is certain and that is bitcoin has come with its own liberation at its time and have put itself in the book of history forever as one that change the way we do things, that went to the very fabric of what we have come to know and the victory is that its disrupt every of those of our believe.

What is even surprising to me and I believed should do same to others is how someone who does not have access to Quantum computer would create what Quantum computer can only put an end to which means with further development, Quantum computer might not be enough to break its code.

Yes you are right. Quantum computers are very less in numbers. With the advancement in technology will provide the solutions to the problems.
Although it will be tough.
Whenever there is need, There is a discovery. So don't be afraid, one will end up with all solutions.

The thing is quantum computing isn't even possible.  Its only a quack theory.  It will never be released.

I guess the same thing was said about flying, traveling at more than 40km/h, computers, ...  ::)

But, seriously, it's several years away and it won't kill crypto. It will adapt.

---

Wrong board, this is "Serious discussion"

Ok So time travel and teleportation is also possible?  quantum computers will never exist.

They already exist.  Start reading here: https://www.research.ibm.com/ibm-q/learn/what-is-quantum-computing/

crypto enthusiasts are in any industry. So are those who make quantum computers. Some countries will use these technologies to destroy cryptography while others would protect it. in any case we see how growing is interesting to the crypt. so the issue of protection will be resolved, since those who are FOR, more.

Wouldn't the whole financial system itself be vulnerable to Quantum computing.  After all, the FIAT currencies are just numbers in a computer and if quantum computers can crack any cryptography instantly doesn't that make any networked computer an open book? 

So when quantum computing is sufficiently advanced everything that is secured is crackable so I wouldn't be too worried about Cryptos as I am sure that the central banks of the world will be rushing to find a workaround which we can usurp.

That fears me alot.
I wish me a world were Quantum computing will HELP the Blockchain technology. Cryptos as well.

This is really how a person's mind worked.  Since we can't predict the future we only focus on the present. I also like the idea of what you will do today dictates the future. Tho we people also foresee the future that we are gonna be making from the present

I have my doubts that the Quantum Computers will end crypto and here is why.
First of all, it's gonna take a long time until Quantum Computers will be in every home, or accessible for a good price to the masses so there will be time for the crypto community to adapt to this new technology.
Quantum computers will affect the way we mine crypto currencies and there are a lot of coin which doesn't require mining and therefor, those coins might win some ground.
On the other hand, Quantum Computers doesn't mean that 1 player in this industry will have it and mess up with the whole comunity. No, if 1 player can buy a Quantum Computer, others will do to and therefor the market will just increase the difficulty for small players. On the other hand, there could be other changes that could occur for mining, for example, an upper limit for how much mining power you can have and still make profit.

I am pretty sure that the concerns about quantum computers disrupting cryptocurrencies is not about the hike in hashrate.

The way bigger risk is that quantum computers could decrypt the encryption that is used for adresses. If someone finds the private key to one large Bitcoin adress with his quantum computer, bitcoin will be worthless.

So the bitcoin protocoll must be prepared for such an attack before quantum computers are ready.

Considering the time length it takes for any major advancement, I'd wait for another decade..

Wouldn't it be enough to connect the majority of hash power to manipulate the blockchain, for example of Bitcoin with a majority of 51% instead of waiting for quantum computers? For private individuals not feasible, but for large institutions, such as powerful intelligence agencies, the required $ 3 billion investment plus electricity costs would be a breeze, wouldn't it?

Quantum Computers are much faster that the current one. Defending such attack basically impossible. Unless the current bitcoin system and hardware are being upgraded. I believe that quantum computer will not caused a problem to bitcoin community if the bitcoin community will also start using quantum computers.

When it comes to cracking/hacking, it takes far far longer to crack something than it does to patch something.
The amount of hours and days hackers put in to finding a vulnerability to just have it patched in a few days is pretty standard.

Quantum computing is not an easy feat, picture the days when a computer was the size of a warehouse, quantum computing is further behind than this if you were to look at it that way, it'll take the most tiny fraction of a time to make something quantum resistant vs these machines being real and capable of cracking encryption.

Encryption is also a factor of strength vs speed, as computing power goes up you can use larger keys for more strength without sacrificing speed, for example in todays world, a 256 bit encryption key is considered extremely strong against brute force attacks, in 10 years time 512 bit may become the norm... to implement a stronger key is far far easier than producing greater hardware.

or other banking systems?

it destroys them.

Hardly.

Banks rely on aymmetric (public / private) key algorithm. There are estimates that say 256-bit RSA could be broken by quantum computers in about 10 years. (Hashing algorithm in Bitcoin would AT LEAST take 10 years to solve by quantum computers using brute force).

However, there are already post-quantum (i.e. quantum resistant) algorithms out there, which will replace the key algorithms used today. So neither cryptocurrencies, nor the banking system, are truly in danger.

How is your post related to mine? How can we prevent quantum computers from decrypting bitcoin adresses by upgrading the hardware in the system?

If what you are saying is true that there is no way to implement a protocoll that is safe against quantum attacks, bitcoin is doomed. But I don't think that is the case.

If you want to read about encryption post quantum computers see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography

But that has nothing to do with hardware upgrades in the bitcoin community

Please be specific to whom are you talking to because basically we have the same idea that it is merely impossible to attack bitcoin using quantum  computers. Tho we have to admit that hardwares can really affect the bitcoin community since we need to adopt so bitcoin will continue to be a part of the system. I cannot see any reason why should we worry about it

Having said that, it appears that it is bad to invest in cryptocurrency now.

Quantum computers will complicate cryptocurrency more. To make quantum resistant algorithms in blockchain, then will that mean using quantum computers? This is going to be a real mess.

Yes you're right if quantum computers appear it would easily decode cryptocurrency, but developers are not silly it can work in other direction also, I suppose it would be used to make Cryptocurrency resistant from quantum coding.

Once a quantum computer can instantly pick up any passwords - how to protect information? Will the confidentiality disappear with the arrival of such devices? Of course not. The so-called quantum encryption comes to the rescue: it is based on the fact that when you try to “read” a quantum state, it collapses, which makes any hacking impossible.