Bitcoin Forum

As you may be aware, the forum now has a "merit" system. You may find all the details here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0)

In short, you will need people to "upvote" your posts to advance in rank, as opposed to making a certain amount of posts over time. The rules are explained in more detail in the thread, but "merit" is a scarce resource now, although we don´t know how scarce.

But I am placing this post in AltCoin discussion because it affects how signature campaigns are affected and many members don´t read the "Meta" section.

JUNIORS CAN´T HAVE A SIGNATURE NOW Can´t have links apparently.

This means that if you were in the middle of a campaign that required wearing the signature... you are done. Most likely you´ll get nothing.

If you consider that there should be some grace period or that an alternative solution could be implemented, you may post here or on the original Meta thread.

Well the discretion is up to each individual campaign and how they want to proceed this is not our decision. Personally I think they should honor the Jr's as long as the signature code is kept but again it is up to their own discretion. It is too early to tell how the system will work but we do know the merit supply and I think it is roughly 600k based on what I gathered from the merit thread. Again, tough to say what will happen but I think these changes were made with the best of intentions, time will truly tell though.

The merit system is interesting for sure.  It can help limit some of the spam postings that is going on just to rank up.  However, if no members are actually giving other members merit it can become a toxic system that limits the amount of leveling up across the forum and become counterproductive.  While I do like the idea of the merit system its success is going to be based on the middle of the pack Members-Senior Members to succeed.

Oh, then you have read more carefully than I. The thread is getting very long, because it is a controversial issue I guess.

I think you are right about this.  They had to do something because of all the airdrop and signature/bounty threads.  I saw a new coin announcement a while back (I'll have to dig for it), and 2 or 3 of the posters were newbies, and they said the exact same thing, something like 'great project!  I'm joining!.  Not even taking the time to mix it up.  I can just imagine the load that puts in the admins.  If they can get it to work, I'm all for it.

If you read up the entire announcement on the merit system then you will able to know that keeping smerits would be pointless. It always being suggested to be distribute.  Try to read up here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit  which have been mentioned where There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future.. Merit system is changing the way to level up rank it would really be more tougher because people do need to make good quality post to earn merits. If not then you will stay on your recent rank for long..

Yes, there is a merit system, certainly a lot of impact on the jr member, jr signature now can not include a link, and this is a big difference.
And I think merit must be very scarce. In any case, signature compaign will tend to be member and above member.

 i agree with your statement. since merit available at bitcoin profile, Jr.Member cant have signature campaign, just some profile have a merit can join signature and i think "elite campaign" started, cause
some profile have many merit still join signature campaign, not to Jr. Member and lower

I am saying maybe they just dont care to give merit. I did read it. but people still need to take the time to use it. People are Legendary or Hero could not give any merit and nothing would ever change for them.  So its really on the mid-level members to help others move up.  Even if the merit decays if you do not use it that alone isnt going to motivate people to use it.  Its sort of like surveys or reviews you can send out 1000 emails to click a star 1-5 for a review and you are really only going to get a percentage of responses.  Some will delete the email others will just forget to use it.  I still like the idea of the new system and it can be successful but it does rely on participation.

That's the problem. The system is implemented just in the middle of this week. So if there is a Junior Member that has joined a signature campaign like me, there is a chance that he will be expelled from that campaign depending on the bounty manager's discretion.

A Junior member can still wear a signature but not a clickable one.

Changing the rules in the middle of a game for me is unfair. It is better not to disqualify a junior member from a campaign because it is not his fault why things go this way. Let him finish the campaign because he still has the signature although without a link.

Just a thought of a Junior Member.  :)

To be honest I did not noticed jr. member aren't able to join in signature campaign but rather newbie and jr.member is 0 in merit. Member to high rank are the one who have merit.
Merit will push me as jr.member to do my very best to post a quality one.
But thanks for this I am informed. Hopefully everyone in this community will not discriminate the lower rank because of the merit system everyone should post with quality.

this is a good policy, with many spammers attacking the forum just to raise their rank up to Hero or Legendary to use the most expensive signatures and earn money easily.
From now on, everyone should feel the hard work to be able to follow the bounty, and maybe .. the upcoming bounty campaign requires someone to have a number of + Merit

I like the idea of furthering merit here, as there are a lot of posters who bring no value plus broken English.

However, I'm not sure that their system for merit is going to be the best way to go about it.

i am still a jr member and i guess this is a big deal to us jr member but i guess this updates have a good reason behind it and i rather said that i need to a continue support the project i am supporting right now.
still i need to move on and follow the new rules  :)

I think the OP touched on the real problem with this system ..Merit is way too scarce.  I’m a full member and was only allowed 4 Merit to share.  If JR members need 10, and higher ranking members need 100s, there doesn’t seem to be enough to go around.

I am also a jr member. I was somewhat shocked to see the new rules today. Have to say that this is a good way to manage the forum. But it also makes this level of people difficult. I do not know how the future forum will be like. But I am a bit anxious.

Well this new merit system is not the end to it all. It is even more challenging to think first before posting, rather than to just post and post even though you are already out of topic. I read the meta announcement and there will be people who will be task to read posts and if deemed to be a quality post but did not receive any merits, they can quote those replies and send it in the meta thread in order to apply as the merit source. So if you are a merit source I think your job will have to be to find quality posts and give merits due to them. The challenge here for us is just to create high quality posts with a lot of content and for sure that merit system will just be a fly.

I know someone who cannot put links on his signature and this affirmed that the new merit system has indeed afflicted Jr.Members so much. I was just wondering how they could put signatures with link? Do they need just a few merit or do they really need 10 (promoted member's rank)?

Having this merit system in place just means people in general have to work harder to reach their goals. Due to airdrops and many people building multiple accounts to cheat the bounty system, something had to give and I guess they thought of this. Personally if people joined as juniors in a bounty campaign before this rule came out they should be allowed to continue but any new Juniors coming they need to rank up of course. I think this would be the fairest outcome of all.

This is a good development from the team as it will reduce those creating multiple accounts to participate on bounty....



Arcblock gave chance to all rank to participate....


Arcblock is the real future of cryptocurrency..

I have not yet fully understood this, but I think that this will be a new way of controlling people, because lately more and more people are beginning to stay on the forum with the same thought, I think it's not worth talking about this thought, so probably they introduced this system

New merit system will helps to make more usefull posts and avoide spam.

I think this problem will be solved by bounty managers of each campaigns and most of participants will get their already earned stakes.

Obviously, the manager of each campaign will decide how to operate with juniors with  signatures. Nothing depends on us.

We just can to ask or wait for their announcement.

True this can be a double edge sword since not all people will be aware of the merit system or will give time to consider someone by giving them merits since most of the users here were either learning and reading or just completing their tasks for the bounty campaigns they participated. I mean it can also be a form of spamming and how will they be able to monitor the legitimacy of these merits I hope someday they would just develop a system or a graph on each profile's activity that include its average character per post and time spent per thread to distinguish those who are just spamming for ranks.

If you are a good quality poster you dont have nothing to worry , if you have a good quality post someone will give you a merit and it will help you to rank up .

It is a good policy that forum may have to eliminate those low quality poster.

It'll be up to the project leader to decide.  Usually the campaign manager is just an employee.  It doesn't look good for jr. members though since the signature link isn't clickable.  It'll be unfair to those who have a working signature to split their bounties with non working ones.  It'll be fair to payout for the weeks up to this new merit change since most stakes are earned weekly anyways.

The introduction of merit system is no doubt a good development in the community. But what I am trying to understand is what will be the effect of using my merit and not receiving any for my account to my ranking. For instance, if I decide to award my merits to other users and end up not receiving any, what will be the effect to my ranking? Will my rank be downgraded, remain stagnant or increase? I don't think this was explained in the original merit and ranking post except if I didn't read it well.

This is why its getting harder to rank up these days because accumulating those number of merits that required per rank is too high (this is only my own view). There should really be circulation of those smerits or somehow a obligation to put some ratings on daily basis on a certain account. By the way there are smerit accout sources i dont know which person though. Leveling up from Jr member to Member account isnt hard though because it is just 10 merits for you to rank on basing on whats being said:


Jr Member   30   0
Member        60  10

I agree, It is up to the campaign manager decision whether or not they will still honor JR Member or not, but in my opinion, I for those who have an ongoing campaign that has jr.member onboard, I think they still need to honor them, so that their effort will not be wasted. And for those who will just lunch their ICO, I think that's the time they need to remove JR member if they wanted.

As of the moment, some of the campaigns still accept newbie, in this new rule, I think it still depends on the ICO Dev whether or not they will accept Jr Member or not.

I have seen people posting shit without even knowing what they are posting !! Need to deal with less shit posts !! Good yeah  ;D

Absolutely,I agree with you. I just realised that my signature links aren't clickable which basically jeopardizes my participation in the campaign. Although, these new updates are intended to ensure quality & will benefit the forum in long term , I also wish we had a grace period.

I am sure they are have a good reason if why they putting up merit. Maybe just beacause they want to avoid the spam posting. Some people post a nonsense comment but most comment has a bright idea and can't deny it could help to us for additional knowledge.

Of course, merit system affects on the fact that all of the newbies can't enhace their rang to Jr.Member. But I'm not sure, how this problem affects on the current Jr.Members. Why will they not to take their bounties after the end of campaign? Could someone explain this?

you need some merit? i have sMerit to give: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2833111.msg29044855#msg29044855

I think that Jr´s can have a signature, but I think that it is the links that don´t seem to be there?? Anyway, it is also hard for Members and Full Member... now going up in rank seems almost impossible.

I understand the way merit system would be an alternative way to eliminate flooding spams in this forum but let's be honest, not only Me but everyone has multiple accounts and theymos (forum administrator) stated that this merit is not monitored fully or partially.

My question for you guys who really read the entire thread:
What if we're going to use our entire merit credits within our accounts? I know that's possible but I think members are afraid that it might cause alternative accounts in banning or any actions will be made by administrators.

I am not at all against the merit system. Many people, including me, get something out of being here and posting by means of the campaigns and bounties, so it is fair to contribute to the quality of the forum.

However, I think that current campaigns should be allowed to finish, hence this thread.

Well, it seems that - with the pretext to stop spam and shitposting - high rank try to "freeze" the forum: who is in, is in; who is out, is out.
I would been promoted full member in just some weeks, now I need to earn 90 merits.
Please note that - as merits are scarce (I - as Member - have just ONE to spent) the chance that someone like my post AND has merits to give is extremely low.
Of course, this is a private forum, so the owner can take any decision he likes.
And of course the number of post will decrease drastically, but also the participation to the forum (like it or not, lot of people come here just to earn something).
With less participation, the forum will be less interesting for ICO.
This seems to me against the interest of the forum.

I predict that in some weeks the merit system will stop or will change.

it's a good idea in principle but the current version is seriously clunky. it needs to be on the same page and one click. i don't see why there have to be differing amounts either.

the actual amounts of merit required to rank up seem reasonable to me. it takes perhaps three and a half years to get to legendary and you need 750-1000 merits in addition to activity. that's gonna work out to be maybe one merit every 1.2 days.

for non idiot posters i don't think the time required to rank up will change all that much if at all. easy for me to say i know.

I like the idea, but the limits are very off target. For full member to become sr. member you need 120 posts and 150 merit points. If they were 40-50 merit I would agree, but 150 is way too much.

The system is based on some hypothesis that are not very aligned with human nature:

a) smerit has to be given based on quality. It is much more likely to be given when someone agrees with you.
b)smerit will be give as it does not decrease your own. That is technically true, but by giving merit you let others advance, so it works against the exclusivity of your rank. Some may choose to let smerit rot.
c) The posts will be read by people able to give credit. That is difficult to believe as today.

What are the mechanisms that will prevent these things from happening?

As a Jr. Member who is currently at a disadvantage in the current system, I aggree that this can create positive things, but I think it's a little too unfair for the new members or Jr. Members. I mean just think about it. We have to seriously crawl our way to the top, and what if I make a legit, helpful, merittable post and no one noticed it? Isn't that a little too unfair? Many efforts can be wasted just because you couldn't appreciate or you fail no notice a good post. What are moderators are for?

EDIT: while the previous member of this forum has it easy, just meeting their quota per post, the new members have it rough, it's really hard to get accepted in signature campaigns right now. It's like they're discriminating new members.

There's dozens of 'review' threads which you can post any posts than you feel are under merited. Although, you can't do this every time you can for the most substantial posts.

Campaigns have always required you to be a certain rank. Very few of the campaigns (excluding altcoin campaigns) actually allowed members and below to join their campaigns. Anyway, if your sole purpose is to join a signature campaign your going to find it very difficult to rank up.

It's a little unfair but those are the very reasons why theymos implemented this. Low ranks who joined the signature campaigns are spamming everywhere, they see a thread they reply anything that comes into their mind without even reading and joining the discussion. Certain question just needs one or two answers but what is happening? Tons of replies with the same thought, some even reply "i agree..." with supporting texts that does not have any sense. Can't we just agree in our minds and move on without spamming threads?

You'll feel it when you got a merit, the sense of achievement, the feeling of someone noticed your post, the feeling of not being ignored. It'll make you proud, it'll make you be more confident. It'll teach you that what you're doing is right and you should keep it up. Every merit you receive will be the reflection of who you are in this forum.

In the end we just got to move on and wait. If the system is changed so be it, if not please just adapt and try to write constructive posts cause that's the only way to rank up(if you really want to rank up that is).

This is not true, I may be wrong but I have noticed that Juniors who were already wearing signatures with links at the moment of the change, still have them and the links are working. It will supposedly affect them only when they will change signature.

I guess those accounts are Copper Members. Copper Members are several priviledges in the forum. Don't worry or pay too much attention on them. Simply follow the merit rules.