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I firmly believe every individual should be on equal grounds with criminals, thieves and other threats that may aggress against them. You can only engage people through force or reason. I want to eliminate force as a viable option for aggressors as much as possible.

So, the overall objective of my venture is to derive value from protecting life and encouraging peace by putting protection in the hands of people in exchange for Bitcoins. Specifically, I will be selling self-defense devices and tools which will include batons, stun guns, knives and related accessories.

My question is what tools do you envision yourself using? What are your preferences when it comes to self-defense? I ask this in order serve all of your needs optimally.

Thank you!

Talk about a best defense being a great offense lol, what happened to shields, gas masks, and helmets.  I guess there are three items.   I would say pepper spray but it's so tame compared to everything else listed, I think would only be good for cooking.

I will definitely consider offering gas masks in case of volcanoes or other environmental disaster. Pepper spray will be offered if there is sufficient demand but I see little advantages over more accurate, sounder tools.

In addition, food for thought:

...the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

- The Gun is Civilization

I may not be offering full-fledged firearms but I am offering the next best thing, if not better in most cases, since my tools can usually only incapacitate life and not terminate it.

Pepper spray is good because it's non-lethal and carries less stiff penalties for those in jurisdictions that prohibit people from using armed force to defend themselves.

That's not to say stun guns are non-lethal if used properly. In addition, pepper spray is actually regulated in more states than stun guns.

Idea for the store.  Non "usual" items that people generally use as protection, but are not meant to be that way.   Like a baseball bat.   Sell an iron.  Seriously too, the images of the household items together with the actual gear will be kind of amusing, but have a little reality to it too.   And as long as all items are actually purchasable, who knows what else you might sell more than your gear (which really, it is up to the user what they consider gear, thus this thread).

Certainly. I will keep my perspective open.

Much obliged.

Good point. I think mace can be more effective than a stun-gun in some situations, like multiple assailants.

http://www.cottagehomemaine.com/images/table-legs22.jpg
Table leg section coming soon !

My house is in a bad area of town (long story) and I am afraid that my house might come under siege by local gang members.

Can you get me non-lethal tools for dispersing crowds of gangsters, like those claymores filled with rubber balls/pepper spray pellets?

Thanks in advance.

I dont think I need much more then what I all ready have, my Ruger P-89.

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/usa/2/1287744704.jpg

I'm gonna need two of these too

Thanks Atlas

That'll keep them tattoo'd freaks to keep their clothes on!   There are children on the Internet for God's sakes.  Won't somebody think of the children. 




Also for the store, maybe rubber bullets?  I don't know the laws regarding firearm shit, so are bullets just bound basically by gun laws or it's free game, anyone can sell?   

No, it's free game, like how you don't have to pay taxes when you buy things on Amazon - the law works different when you sell over state borders. As far as I know, bullets, ammo, and guns are fine.

I thought guns has a special process?   Basically when you buy a gun online, you are just getting from a shop locally that is registered with something or what not. I don't know all the specific titles of paperwork, but I swear that is how that goes down.

Also, I randomly searched Amazon for bullets, I am super surprised they don't sell them, but that must be a legal thing then.

I read the gun laws a long time ago. If memory serves me correctly, you can buy a gun over the internet but it cant be shipped to you. The gun must be shipped to an entity with a level 2 fire arms license or dealer. Basicly a level 2 license is someone able to sale fire arms.

You probably just have to have a gun license in the state the gun is being delivered to.

I am also surprised there is no ammo on Amazon, could've sworn I bought some from there before...guess not.

Nope!   MeSarah explained it specifically. That is how the law works.  I actually only know this because of the one dude who is selling guns for Bitcoin.  Or was, not sure how that is going.  He just owns a regular store but will accept Bitcoin as payment.  Trying to find his store link but can't atm.

Maybe he can just market it as an internet gun-show, since they don't have to keep records at gun shows.

Then he could just ship the unassembled weapon as parts or something.

I don't actually need one, but if you could actually get the pepper spray claymore that'd be cool

Ah, the things kids do with MRE's these days http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/9781979179

A friend has a bunch of those in his car, I need to grab a few.

Wireless Cameras with a sign will lower the probability of something happening.

Do you have a license to sell guns, or will you be selling them through a licensed broker?

I'm not sure I really want to get drawn into a philosophical debate here but I disagree so strongly on this point that I feel compelled to speak up:

A personal firearm does in no way "remove force from the menu" - it just takes the fight to the next level. If you carry a gun I don't have to use reason to deal with you, I just have to bring some friends with guns, wear protective equipment and some bigger gun or just threaten you by saying I took hostage of some of your loved ones.

I'm sorry Atlas because I really do appreciate your commitment and most of your other contributions to the Bitcoin community, but thinking that guns force everybody to use reason is just ridiculous - it sadly only forces people to either get bigger guns or get killed - as seen on battlefields around the world :(

This community suffers from short-term memory loss. Atlas has yet again abandoned a project to focus on another hare-brained scheme. I'm sure this idea will be dead within a week.

+1

That's a very good way to word it. The constant influx of new people makes that there is virtually no retention of information on the forums. Which makes it almost useless to take the time to explain something, as the same question will be asked 5 minutes later by another newbie.

Taking advice on firearms regulations from faceless people over the internet? What could possibly go wrong?

Atlas - you probably don't have the money to consult a lawyer on this, so don't do it. If you can consult a lawyer (not a friend who's a law student, or a guy who spent a few weeks last summer reading the US Code, you need a lawyer who will put their balls on the line with actual legal advice) then go for it, but don't throw away your life over some bullshit.

Apparently there was a gun shop near where I live where the guy overlooked a few FFL restrictions and got caught, and he'll probably die in prison. At your age, you won't - but you might wish you had, and spending a good portion of your prime working years in lockup is going to change your Randian outlook significantly (there aren't many people who get locked up as a teen and then come out to become captains of industry).

Also knives for self defense are next to useless - they're no replacement for a firearm, they carry significantly more risk to the person using them, you get blood all over you if you do have to use one and it's really tough to look the part of a rational individual in the event you end up in the defendant's chair over a knife fight. If your jurisdiction doesn't allow handguns for self defense they probably don't allow knives either.

Pepper spray is equally useless, even people whom are correctly trained in it's use wind up macing themselves - most folks who buy it have never actually fired it off in their lives they just carry it for that warm fuzzy feeling. It also stands about as much chance at stopping a motivated attacker as a swift kick in the nuts (which is free, and you can't forget and leave it at home or in your car).

Seriously though, do this shit right or don't do it at all.

I would like to buy a Shagohod and possibly a dreadnaught. Can this be arranged?

I'm thinking a few canisters of sarin, or perhaps even some VX if you can get ahold of it. Maybe some atropine in case the kids get a little too curious. This would be for a home defense system, of course. People are a lot less likely to break in and steal things if the neighborhood is going to be flooded with nerve gas.

Yeah, what wareen said.

There are a few hundred million corpses who disagree;  despite having carried a gun, they were dealt with by force.  

I wish you luck removing guns from everybody including the aggressors. Arming people may not be the ideal solution but it is the most optimal. People would be able to be on equal grounds faster if there were no limitations on people arming themselves but that's another argument for another day.

It's a pleasure discussing this with you.

I am aware of the regulations.

Also, I do not plan on selling firearms at this time. Only lower-tier non-lethal security tools.

Does not offer protection, it only fends off burglars.
Cameras are not security, they simply record and not protect.
I can kill anyone in front of a camera and get away with it as long as it's not streaming to a secure or undisclosed location.

Cameras are not security.

I got PMs from a few people, and we're doing it. We're going to build a dreadnaught funded by bitcoins. Please donate for the cause. P.S. If you don't donate to the cause, you're against the cause.

I think this could be a large untapped market, potentially.  I asked about buying a gas mask at Home Depot and all they had were flimsy respirators for painting and stuff, which would obviously melt as soon as lava hit them.  And nothing at all in the way of lava-proof suits.

I did buy a big piece of rebar, though, which I hit people with who come into my yard.  So I don't need a baton or anything like that.

Due to legal issues, BitPeace will not be offering the original selection it intended.