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Just got word from my source in Zotac

Nvidia P102-100 GPU's coming out with 5GB GDDR5X clocked at 10GHz and priced at $600 officially (though we know its not going to be available for anything close to that price)
Since this is GP102, expect it to be great at Zcash, Neoscrypt etc but suck at ethereum (with that GDDR5X)

https://i.imgur.com/2ESB8ZH.jpg

What do you guys think?

looks really good, however no chance to get hand on this piece :)

WOW awseome gpu, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately it will be very hard to get any of these

If they're hard to get and priced high with less resale appeal and (maybe) less warranty - what's the point?

I checked with local supplier but he do not have it. He has only P106-100 and P104-100 graphic cards. That too overpriced. Arrr

But can’t wait to see how much is this P102-100 hashing for Zcash. Might be around 900+ sols

I don't think it will come early than Q2/2018.

Otherwise, the 2000 series Nvidia launching 04/2018 (Rumors?)

600$, it should be cool!
Currently I even could not grab P104-100 at that price.
Btw, do you have any info about the release date?

What are the specs for P102? So it has GDDR5X memory as gtx1080ti, but what about core?
Which core chip the card will have?

Currently, in my market anyway, the P-cards are selling for more than their regular gaming counterparts. There are no benefits to these cards that make them worth paying more for, right? I mean they are just stropped down versions of the gaming card right?

Dammit, $600 for something that won't have any resale value next year.

Why did they choose 4GB when the DAG size is always increasing? Won't this make the card unable to mine ETH in a couple years? Maybe by that time the card with had ROI anyway? I couldn't find much on pricing online but $600 if that's true I think I'd still want a usable GPU as you could resell and get some return that way when finished with it or upgrading.

I really do not like the P-cards , They have no resell value , From where I am they are pretty cheap and no one buy them , They are less by 15% - 12% from the gaming cards and still not doing good in term of sale . To be honest if you gonna buy P - cards then just go get yourself ASIC miner . The pretty of the GPU mining is that you have a rig which can be liquidated very easy and in parts , With P-cards we kinda losing this great advantage .

It's 5 GB and you're probably not going to mine ETH with one of these anyway.

ah ok, the gigabyte one has the same model # and is 4GB. I see this is 5GB. What would you think is best alg to mine with it? Neo?

600$ for 3 month warranty and no resell value? The actual ROI mining Zcash would be about 220 days...

p104-100 - ddr5x 256bit bus with tuned timing can do 40mhs.
so this p102-100 if it will also have tweaked mining bios will do 50+mhs eth (wider mem bus)

Where are you? Got an airport near by?

This could be true, the guy that gave me this slide also told me expected Eth hashrate would be 50+ mh/s but I told him thats not possible since this is based off of GTX 1080ti ... but you make a fair point, the P104 was also GDDR5X and yet performed ~43mh/s

looks really good, hope price it about 400 - 500$

I have pictures of the P102-100 mining ETH at 47 MH on Windows running Claymore 10.x.

And no they can't be shared as they are under NDA.

When does the nda expire?

There is a NDA on the NDA expiration date... :p

meh, i'll wait for Ampere, the 2070 will out-perform it and have resale value

Hahaha, really ?

This is like a scam from a Nigerian scammer :D

Price, amount of VRAM, warranty period... a JOKE.

p.s. whoever is saying "wider memory bus" via BIOS has absolutely zero clue when it comes to hardware. Sadly, a memory controller's BUS width can't be changed via BIOS.
It's 100% tied to hardware.
You could say that, if you were unlocking disabled ALU blocks that are tied to an also disabled memory controller, but that hasn't been the case with nVIDIA for a whole lotta time.
The cut-down versions of their cores are hardware disabled ( laser cut in die ) since... I don't even remember when ( that deep into the past ).

47Mh/s is not much higher than P104-100. So any info about its price yet?

That's not really any great surprise considering ETH is memory bound rather than compute bound. Expect a better result from Equihash based crypto's.

its nice to see mining optimized cards and also performing better than the normal ones
i hope if i can get some to test when available

Interesting options, but i guess i'll wait for the 2000 series, as it's just around the corner. Hopefully can get my hands on a few of those, if they'll have a fair price/performance.
Still it's good that we get more variants, since everybody struggles with GPU shortages. We'll see if these mining cards actually hit the store shelves

When will be 200 series be launched?

Probably the price in Europe will be around 1200$ or more. Completely unprofitable.
But thanks for sharing :)

I'd say IV 2018 not around the corner m8

They will be 'revealed' at GTC 2018 on March 26-29th for 'General Availability' in April 2018.

Personally I am a fan of the p106-100. From my experience they have a lower power draw and slightly better temps on the models where they increased the size of the heat sink.
I haven't done extensive tests on every model/algo out there. But the testing I did showed the best ETH efficiency compared to any other GPU currently available(rx470 hynix might be better but I don't have any to test).

As for the P104-100, I don't think the eth efficiency is quite as good not to mention the price tag.

If either the p104 or p102 can show similar efficiency gains over the retail models for any of my favourite algos, then I will probably build rigs of them

I couldnt find any P104-100
So i dont think i can find P102-100 too.
So shame

P104 will only be in my country in about 4 weeks. As far as I know it was only really released like a month or two ago. Although I did see prebuilt systems a while back with no fans(just massive heatsinks).
So maybe that's why you couldn't find any

So, this is 1080ti Zotac mini without display ports? If that is the case, this card will run hot like hell and give about 580 h/s in equihash out of the box...

There's Ready stock available for all GPU's here in my country
P102 at $1000
P104 at $800
RX 580 8GB at $625
RX 570 4GB at $500
Let me know has pockets full of gold and wants to buy at these prices  ;D

So far no P102-100 cards can be found in UK for sale online.

Pictures? I have seen a video of it running +50 MHs. It wasn't stable, but this was out of the box!

My 1080Ti is not so hot if I run them at 70% power limit. So that should not be so hot if you run lower power.

NO WAY these are priced at $600.

Even P104 are over $600 these days.

Looks amazing it would be awesome to get a hold of a few dozen but only in my dreams. LOL

Interesting to say I was confirmed by Palit representative that both gp104 and gp102 have full stock of memory but half is disabled with current bioses )) So some time they will be able to unlock full mem (8gb for gp104 and 11gb for gp102) if needed.

Well you are in luck here...

https://www.bitnand.com/product-page/nvidia-p104-100-mining-card

You're welcome  ;D ;D ;) ;)

Ty for scam

It would be nice if the P106 and P104 were AVAILABLE to most miners, instead of the bulk of them apparently going to "large farms in china" or some such.

I don't see the P102 being any different.


Yet another reason to regret that Sapphire is AMD-centric....

Why are so many people talking about ethereum hashrate on nvidia hardware? Have you guys really not got the memo about this?

well I have the 16 gpu version of the p106-100

it is a good piece of gear.

Improvements to a p104-100  and or a p102-100   would make it close to great gear.

but they would be hot and loud and truly meant for larger deployments

My first solar array could do 18kwatt fully free and size is a non issue power is capped at 18k it then becomes costly.

Still would love to  get a hold of the better  cards.

Man, that cooler looks really small  ;D
Not sure it can properly cool a 1080Ti, probably overheating like the Mini Ti's from zotac.

470 Sol/s +/- 5% ZEC @150W for 900$ is a big pile of shit imho

Oh little spammer, where did you get those figures? You must be talking about the p104?

I wonder when this is p102 will available. Any estimates will be appreciated.

I have that exact P104-100 running. It runs at ~50'C after overclocking and achieving 40MH/s.

Low temperature is another BIG advantage of P-series cards that no one seems to talk about.

For the 1060, ETH has been a better option than ZEC most of the time if not always 'till the DAG file gets too big for the 3GB version.
Right now, the 1070 is a tossup mining ZEC vs ETH if you run it at efficient power settings (110 watts or less ballpark), as it loses NO hashrate on ETH in that ballpark - and recent price moves on ZEC vs ETH have given ETH a definite though small lead.

1080, 1080ti, forget ETH - it earns less.
1050 ti is better off on ETH, 1050 better off on ZEC, but both are low efficiency abet the 1050 is still "non-gouge priced", does OK on hash/$ as a result, and both are widely available.

So why would we miners buy this? makes no sense

P102-100 50 mhs @250w per card  if price is $700 +

vs.

2x rx570 27 mhs @ 125w per card  $360 in us (newegg)

i dont see any performance gain in this performance or power wise

look at the pictures on one of the BABA vendors
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2018-New-Model-High-Hashrate-8pcs_60742041048.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.5ff73632rlbU4G

1st - 250W is the TDP. You will most likely cap the power and bring it down to ~180W (estimate).
2nd - you can't buy RX570 at $360 anymore. Even so, you cannot buy them in bulk at these prices. P102 can be bought in 1,000s if you have the money.

these are nvidia 1080ti's with a bios mod.


so you can put 200 watts in and get 700 sols for equihash.
or you can put in 200 watts and get  48mh

so  you would need to pay under 350 for you rx 570's

these cards will unlock to 11gb  not  the 5fb they are locked to.

and you can buy these in bulk.

You can thank the miners that  purchased a ton of 1080tis  and the run them at 110% tdp  not caring if the card dies as it has a 3 year warranty.

So Nvidia  came up with these  which are geared to miners.

Nvidia has restricted sales of normal  1080ti's  to prevent miners from buying them and burning them up.


here is an evga deal that appeals to a gamer but not a miner

it is 1169 usd too much for a miner that does not need the mobo

https://images.evga.com/products/bundles/201802_218-MG-X299-02.png


but decent for a gamer that will mine a little while he sleeps.

Can anyone provide a link to a page that is actually selling these or planning to?  I've seen a pile of price speculation and saying they're released in such and such country.

Which is a tossup with existing 1080 ti cards - and a bit low compared to some of the "good cooling" cards like the AORUS (mine pulled 720 at 200 watts in my testing with EWBF, the other "lesser cooling" 1080 ti cards I have pull 680-710).

It's going to come down to price, and availability.

Newegg still had one model at $350 this weekend, but they seem to have run out - lowest current listings are $390.

Bulk however is an issue - for the LARGE mining farms that might actually be able to get access to supplies of the P102 cards.

Yes, you get the point. It's one thing to snap up one or two cards at $390, but it's a different thing when you need to buy 1,000 of these reliably with consistent quality.

And to add to my point, 1,000 qty is nothing for a farm. It's not even a million dollars.

I am very concerned about the price of this video card. $600~ $800 is the price I can accept. I must buy some.

My biggest question is going to be supply of these cards and what about the new architecture coming out in June-July?

.Don't worry, mining is all about making money, and some people will have some free electricity.

They are available but not in that price range. P102-100 with fan coolers is 840 each before shipping. P104-100 is $600 right now before shipping.

My question is where can we get smaller amounts for P102 or p104? Only ones I’ve seen for sale are on eBay for $1k+ for p104...

250W power consumption - is not it to much ? For current crypto and electricity prices it seems to  be.

But also they should have free $600-1000 too :)
How many days will be ROI? 500? 600?

I would say more like high $6xx. Most places I see are quoting $69x to $7xx

Let me clear up some shit.

1, This is a memory tuned card (ethash neoscrypt etc).
2, It has a GP102-100 gpu but limited a little lower than on 1080TI
3, It has the full ram, but for max eth speed the bios shuts off some of the chips untill some day its needed and a new bios will be released that you can flash onto the card. Yeah you can flash a nvidia pascal card if you have a signed bios :D
4, It has resale value still, gpu farms, transcoding farms etc etc.
5, Its pretty much a 1080TI with a bios mod to tune the ram timings for max eth speed.

EDIT:
Resale value is also super over rated man, you think your cards is gona be worth anything on the used market if its flodded by miners trying to sell their cards, also big farms.
The cards for sale now at like 400+ usd, used to cost 200 usd before march last year, so their resale value would be like 100usd at best on a total market crash, on a flodded market who knows, but my guess is under $50 :)
That being said this card is not for the household miners, this is aimed at farms.

Hopefully end April the real new Nvidia Voltan Gpu s for gamers maybe come out or the GTX Versions maybe ! and catch one of them !

Yep, price for that card now seems to be to high. It's not december of 2017, time of hype. It's time of realization.

Please find me a 1080Ti that can hash ETH at 50+ MH/s.  ???

What makes you say that this card will  hash ETH at 50MH/s ? :)
And if it did (but it will not) you will get ROI at 16 monthes.
If not and you will get hash near the same  that 1080 has and that is more likely - you will get ROI near 30 monthes
You kidding me :)

ohh its true, GPU is now dot dificit and mining not popular how on january.
Manufacturers making special offers.
How you think can gamesr solder hdmi port to this card and use it for games ?

This comment caught my interest. I've been looking everywhere in my area for 1080ti but stocks are out, so are 1080, 1070 and 1070ti. There are a few 1060s around but there are lots of 1050s. So if you intend to mine eth/etc, you mean 1050 will efficiently mine these better than the higher series? Because if that is the case, would it be a good recommendation to stack up on 1050ti for eth/etc?

No, their efficiency is in the mid-2 range on ZEC while 1070 and up are all capable of 4.0 or better efficiency at their "most efficient" settings on sols/watt.
The 1050 ti is ballpark a 13 Mhash card on ETH - but you CAN'T turn it down to less than 53 watts (52.5 to be picky) while a 1070 will achieve 30 Mhash ballpark (usually 31.something on the cards I've worked with) at 100-108 watts, so ALSO less efficient.

They ARE fairly close, if you go with some of the lower PRICE cards, on a hash/$ basis - but long term they're going to be non-profitable a lot sooner than the "bigger" cards.
Fairly good chance you'll have paid them off, or at least made enough that when you sell them you'll be ahead - IF coin pricing doesn't keep dropping AND you have low-cost electric.

If you're going to stock up on low-end cards for ETH, do 1050 ti cards - I'm not sure if there ARE any 1050 cards that have 4GB and CAN mine ETH, all the ones I'm aware of are 2GB and can't mine ETH at all (and I'm pretty sure can't mine ETC any more too).

BTW - the last week has seen the GTX 1070 turn into "more profitable on ETH at low-power settings than ANY settings on ZEC" even for free electric, unless you have a miraculous (and bloody RARE) 1070 that can manage more than 500 sol/s at high-power settings.
I'm also seeing some price pressure on the GTX 1050 and a small climb on the already slightly inflated 1050 ti pricing, on top of the major gouge pricing on the bigger cards that started right after Xmas....

Does anyone know if a 1080ti can be flashed to seem a 102p-100 so i can complete my asus 19 slots motherboard

Sure but you'd have to solder on more VRAM first  ::)  :P

Seems as if this may have the potential to mitigate the strain between the mining and gaming communities.

Not as long as Nvidia keeps spouting those lies they like trying to blame miners for their shortage when the REAL issue was decisions on the part of Nvidia ITSELF (that were bad in 20/20 hindsight but looked reasonable ahead of time).

AMD has a fair case for blaming miners - they're a LOT more impacted - but oddly enough they prefer to blame "ram shortages" for not being able to ramp up to meet demand.

I have been testing the shipment of P102-100 GPU's we recently received, here are the results for our 16 x P102-100 GPU mining system:

ETH - Total Speed: 796.881 Mh/s, Total Shares: 48(3+3+0+5+3+5+2+0+4+4+1+5+4+1+4+4), Rejected: 0(0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0), Time: 00:04
ETH: GPU0 50.649 Mh/s, GPU1 49.744 Mh/s, GPU2 50.086 Mh/s, GPU3 49.684 Mh/s, GPU4 50.027 Mh/s, GPU5 50.145 Mh/s, GPU6 49.682 Mh/s, GPU7 50.243 Mh/s, GPU8 49.840 Mh/s, GPU9 50.127 Mh/s, GPU10 47.945 Mh/s, GPU11 50.010 Mh/s, GPU12 50.221 Mh/s, GPU13 50.104 Mh/s, GPU14 48.273 Mh/s, GPU15 50.100 Mh/s
Incorrect ETH shares: none
1 minute average ETH total speed: 793.641 Mh/s
Pool switches: ETH - 0
Current ETH share target: 0x0000000112e0be82 (diff: 4000MH), epoch 180(2.41GB)
Current -dcri values: -dcri 6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6
GPU0 t=55C fan=100%, GPU1 t=57C fan=100%, GPU2 t=58C fan=100%, GPU3 t=58C fan=100%, GPU4 t=58C fan=100%, GPU5 t=54C fan=100%, GPU6 t=62C fan=100%, GPU7 t=60C fan=100%, GPU8 t=63C fan=100%, GPU9 t=55C fan=100%, GPU10 t=54C fan=100%, GPU11 t=63C fan=100%, GPU12 t=59C fan=100%, GPU13 t=53C fan=100%, GPU14 t=55C fan=100%, GPU15 t=58C fan=100%

OS: EthOS 1.3.1
Miner: Claymore 11.6

What price are you getting them at, the p104’s were  overpriced and not worth it, so I’m wondering if these are in the same boat especially considering the e3 release this summer or sooner.

Less than 800 - if anyone wants a few we can sell batches at 775 USD each.

Finally we get those information, I also guessed its hashrate should be about 50 mh/s. Btw, have you tested it with other algo, for example mining Monero? One month ago 775$ per card is a good deal, but now it's hard to say as Bitmain's going to release asics miner E3. Even me, I'm going to switch all of my Rx580 rigs to mine Monero in next month. Claymore already added new string for Monero hard fork. Hopefully Ethereum will have some move on it.

Keep in mind that these GPU's only have 3200 CUDA cores versus a 1080 Ti which has 3584 CUDA cores.  The P102-100 has optimised memory timings and is hence faster for memory bound algorithms (such as Ethash used for Ethereum mining), but slower for compute bound algorithms (such as CryptoNote for Monero and Equihash for Zcash mining).

Zcash benchmarking with DSTM shows around 675 sols/second at stock clock speeds.  I achieved a maximum of 710 sols/second with a +100 mhz core overclock.

Bitcoin.

On a GPU.

*ROFLMAOSC for about 5 minutes*



You have GOT to be joking, right?

Bitcoin Gold  8) 675 sols/sec.

Thanks for coming here and giving us info about it :) Whats the warranty on them and how is cooling compared to regular 1080tis?Also if you could run benchamark for raven that would be great ;D

The warranty on all of the NVIDIA mining series GPU's (P106, P104, P102) is 3-months.

These have passive heatsinks, so you need fans in your chassis to blow over them.

As for x16r, don't know (probably about the same as a 1080).

Yeah, finally we got it and it's normal price compared to other gpus, it has higher hashrate. By the way can't see any idea if they produce this card massively because as you mentioned, bitmain is going to release asic for ether. Don't care what others think but it's great if GPU mining ends, because of those miners, I can't buy normal GPU in cheap price.

yea like many others have said, I don't see the appeal at this price point. 1080Ti's can be purchased for equal or less $, come with a superior 3 yr (vs. 3 month) warranty, they have re-sale value AND they can hash core intensive algorithm's (the most profitable ones recently) better than p102 cards.

1080TI > p102 100%

do you have some info about how much power they consume?
~50mh its preety good hash rate but comparing to 2x rx 570(i think its possible to get 2  for same price or less)  will get about 60mh. So the question is power consumption.

I agree, the mining cards continue to be overpriced just because they can hash Eth faster than their normal counterparts, but in the current market and with e3 coming out, what point is there in dropping money on such an overpriced one trick pony.

They're not a one trick pony - just somewhat optimized for specific usage.
The P104 and P106 aren't all that different from their "consumer" varients, and I suspect the "reduced core count" on the P102 might be a BIOS controlled option rather than a separate GPU model from the 1080 ti.

Overpriced - that's ALL GPUs to a degree at this time.



Has anyone tried a P102 on Folding@Home? It would be interesting to see if the optimized RAM was enough to make up for the lower core count.

Nvidia P102 mining gpu available in stock
inbox if anyone interested.  http://

https://www.bitnand.com/nvidia-p102-100-gpu-mining-preview

These guys put up a review of the P102 GPU. Seems pretty fast at 50MH/s, but the power consumption is crazy high imho.

Have you had the chance to test those cards with new ethereum miner from ohgodagirl?Regular 1080ti is making close to 50 mhs with it at low power consumption and i am interested to see if there will be some kind of boost on hash rate on mining version with new miner 8)

This is great news.  If they can ramp up production of their chips and fulfill demand for both GPU's and Mining GPU's the long and bloody war that has existed between gamers and miners will be over!

No.  Which miner is that?

this one in the link,people are saying close to 40mhs on regular 1080 and as i said 50mhs on 1080ti
https://github.com/OhGodACompany/OhGodAnETHlargementPill/blob/master/OhGodAnETHlargementPill.exe/

People are saying this WHERE?

In  official thread for this tool,there was also one more thread about this tool with uploaded screenshots but i am guessing someone will do that soon in this thread2.No upgrades for 1070/60 tho
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3370685.0

Doesn't appear to actually be a miner, but a "runtime" memory strap modifier for GDDR 5x specifically.

Since only the 1080 and 1080 ti (and Titan Pascal) use GDDR 5x on the Nvidia side, there probably won't be a version for anything else - GDDR 5 doesn't NEED it nearly as much.

It was a miner first when they posted it in other thread asking for money or to implement dev fee in it,now its just some kind of program that runs in the background and boost gddr5x speed
Didnt read the new thread from start,sry for fake news :)

It works well for ETH mining.

Hi,

the tool looks interesting but it does not increase submitted valid shares which are the important part vs hash rate!

It needs to be integrated with a miner to use the increase in hash rate to increase in valid submitted shares.

I tested this on my 1080ti the hashrate gives me around 50mh/s to 53mh/s but the problem the average hashrate still the same as before but the reported hashrate gives me a real hashrate from my rig.

Do you think guys they can release also for 1060 and 1070 and also for other algo?

total bullshit ...

1. I guess you're trying to say that the hashrate increased but the shares remained the same? That's not my experience.

2. No it's only for cards with unmodified GDDR5X memory: 1080, 1080 ti, Titan XP. The dedicated mining cards already have been tuned, similar to ethlargement, so do not benefit from the pill.

FFS all this bollocks about 'not increasing submitted valid shares' is completely wrong.

Stop fucking around with unproven statements, do your own testing and show us the fucking proof. Look, here are 5x 1080 ti mildly overclocked:

https://i.imgur.com/95reUPa.jpg

Graph legend in case you can't follow:
Good = ethlargement running ~56MH/s / card ~220-260 shares total
Bad = ethlargement stopped. ~38MH/s / carrd ~140-160 shares total

Yes I could've left it running without the pill longer, the shares may have picked up a little as it could have been the bottom of the natural up/down swing of the pool. But it definitely has an impact on the shares poolside! If you're not seeing this I can only guess you are not using the tool correctly or there's something wrong with your pool/brain.

It will be too hard to get these but undoubtedly this is a great GPU.

turns out you can now basically more or less turn a stock 1080ti into a p102-100. fully reversible, no bios mods needed. just reboot and its back to a regular 1080ti. 50+mhs on eth.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3370685.0

im using it on my two 1080tis with CDM 11.4 and it works, but its closed source, so its safety (as far as hidden malware etc) is questionable. i run it on a locked down miner though.

dyor as to if you want to run it.

i have no affiliation with them btw.

The price should be nominal as they are something great and should be easily available.

The local suppliers do not have this because of the less quantity. It must increase.

Thank you for sharing this. This is an amazing GPU.

I did not like the P card a lot and they have some really less value and are very cheap.

I mean 1080Ti is still expensive, as it goes for around $1,xxx these days. Comparatively speaking, the P104-100 seems like a better deal at 41MH/s @ 135W. bitnand.com (http://bitnand.com) sells them for $680.

I think it's hard to justify the extra 50%+ premium for 1080Ti when it's only 30% faster than a P104-100.

I got hands on these cards. Unfortunately they aren't supported with the latest drivers. Anyone got around with this?

DAG increases and I believe that 4 GB is not enough. A strange choice in my opinion. In a few years, a 4 GB card will not be able to get anything

Bitnand.com got these cards on sale:

https://www.bitnand.com/product-page/nvidia-p102-100-gpu (https://www.bitnand.com/product-page/nvidia-p102-100-gpu)

They also seem to have a mini review of sorts for the P102-100 5GB version:

https://www.bitnand.com/nvidia-p102-100-gpu-mining-preview (https://www.bitnand.com/nvidia-p102-100-gpu-mining-preview)

still can mine monero and x16 with 4gb

P102 requires two 8-pin 12V ATX connectors? Looks like it from the pictures.  ???

If so, that's a lot of plugs that are required. Not sure if there are that many PSU that has this many 8-pin.

In a few years we'll be driving our lambo on the moon no need for 4gb  :P :P