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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: Bitware on September 13, 2013, 11:30:30 AM



Title: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: Bitware on September 13, 2013, 11:30:30 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: JoeQ on September 13, 2013, 11:44:29 AM
This is really interesting, and he makes some good points. But it's hard to take this kind of thing seriously from someone who refuses to trwat gay people like humans.


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: zeta1 on September 14, 2013, 04:33:00 PM
He made some good points, but let him change that anti-gay law of him soon.


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: pedrog on September 14, 2013, 08:26:48 PM
He has some great points but he also has glass ceilings, and you don't throw rocks when you have glass ceilings, the gay persecution, the Pussy Riot thing, journalists assassinations, I'm sure the list continues...


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: zeta1 on September 14, 2013, 08:39:04 PM
He has some great points but he also has glass ceilings, and you don't throw rocks when you have glass ceilings, the gay persecution, the Pussy Riot thing, journalists assassinations, I'm sure the list continues...

I totally agree with you


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: Puppet on September 14, 2013, 09:08:26 PM
Time to cut through the rhetoric and talk about what this conflict is really about, something neither the west or putin will do.
Its got nothing to do with gay rights, democracy or even chemical weapons. Its about regional influence, oil and mostly: gas.

In a nutshell, back in 2009 IIRC, qatar wanted a pipeline from its rather recently discovered massive (actually, world's largest) North Dome gas fields to the EU. This pipeline would go through SA, Jordan, Syria to the  Mediterranean and/or Turkey. Syria refused, because it would threaten the stranglehold its Russian ally has on the EU gas market though Gazprom. Instead Syria pursued an alternative pipeline from Irans South Pars gasfield (actually the same gas field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pars_/_North_Dome_Gas-Condensate_field), but on Irans side of the persian gulf)  through Iraq to lebanon and the Med, with an option to connect to Turkey. A $10B deal that was signed in 2010. Not much later, the "uprising" began. No coincidence.

Qatar and later SA fund the "rebels" (better word is jihadists or mercenaries) for billions of dollars to get rid of Assad and install a more sunni friendly regime. Failing that, plan B is to split the country in 2, allowing the north/eastern "free Syria" to run the qatari's beloved pipeline to the EU, instead of Iranian gas flowing to the EU. Thats whats going on. The vast majority of "rebels" arent even Syrians, they are paid mercenaries from all over the world, and most of them religious fanatics generously paid for by the Saudi's and qatari's.  

The US really doesnt really have a horse in this race, except placating to its allies saudi arabia and israel. And weakening Iran and not allowing Iran to sell gas to the EU, although the only real reason the US wants that is because Israel wants it. As for Israel, it doesnt want a Saudi controlled extremist sunni regime at its borders, but it doesnt want a strong Assad supporting Hezbollah (and Iran) either. Lacking a better option, Israel wants perpetual war in Syria, weakening all fractions, including Hezbollah.

Thats the short story.


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: marcovaldo on September 15, 2013, 02:00:50 PM
This is really interesting, and he makes some good points. But it's hard to take this kind of thing seriously from someone who refuses to trwat gay people like humans.

They are treated like humans lol.
Even if you are not gay, and if you go naked in the street, you might face prosecution. Because it is shocking, especially for young people.
::)


But it's true that it is hard to take anything regarding law seriously from American people who allow to takes drugs or death penalty in some states.


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: spartacus_ on September 16, 2013, 08:11:48 AM
They are different point of views. 
;D


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: zeta1 on September 16, 2013, 08:40:33 AM
They are different point of views. 
;D

Yeah but which ones do we agree?


Title: Re: Vladimir Putin Speaks To The American People
Post by: domob on September 16, 2013, 10:45:22 AM
Time to cut through the rhetoric and talk about what this conflict is really about, something neither the west or putin will do.
Its got nothing to do with gay rights, democracy or even chemical weapons. Its about regional influence, oil and mostly: gas.

In a nutshell, back in 2009 IIRC, qatar wanted a pipeline from its rather recently discovered massive (actually, world's largest) North Dome gas fields to the EU. This pipeline would go through SA, Jordan, Syria to the  Mediterranean and/or Turkey. Syria refused, because it would threaten the stranglehold its Russian ally has on the EU gas market though Gazprom. Instead Syria pursued an alternative pipeline from Irans South Pars gasfield (actually the same gas field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pars_/_North_Dome_Gas-Condensate_field), but on Irans side of the persian gulf)  through Iraq to lebanon and the Med, with an option to connect to Turkey. A $10B deal that was signed in 2010. Not much later, the "uprising" began. No coincidence.

Qatar and later SA fund the "rebels" (better word is jihadists or mercenaries) for billions of dollars to get rid of Assad and install a more sunni friendly regime. Failing that, plan B is to split the country in 2, allowing the north/eastern "free Syria" to run the qatari's beloved pipeline to the EU, instead of Iranian gas flowing to the EU. Thats whats going on. The vast majority of "rebels" arent even Syrians, they are paid mercenaries from all over the world, and most of them religious fanatics generously paid for by the Saudi's and qatari's.  

The US really doesnt really have a horse in this race, except placating to its allies saudi arabia and israel. And weakening Iran and not allowing Iran to sell gas to the EU, although the only real reason the US wants that is because Israel wants it. As for Israel, it doesnt want a Saudi controlled extremist sunni regime at its borders, but it doesnt want a strong Assad supporting Hezbollah (and Iran) either. Lacking a better option, Israel wants perpetual war in Syria, weakening all fractions, including Hezbollah.

I also heard that hypothesis already, and have to say I find it the most reasonable explanation at the moment.