Bitcoin Forum

Today I have mined 100 cgb in a 24 hour period and have been burning 7.5kwh - 8kwh on average. My electricity cost here in the UK is 11.5 pence per kwh (and that is one of the cheapest tariffs) so that is £22.08 per 24 hours. The cgb I have mined are only worth around £18!!!

The electricity is everything used including switches, router,  extractor and inlet fans.

I find the coinwarz calculator to be over optimistic for the number of coins mined as well.

Is anyone actually making any money?

What is your total hashrate?

It is on average 18 Mega Hashes per second

I believe www.wheretomine.com is more accurate for coin generation.  You might want to compare its calcs with coinwarez.

I think the problem with the calculators is they only give you a snapshot at that moment and if the difficulty did not change through the 24 hour period but as we all know it changes regularly and when you compare it your real earnings it is often out by quite a bit.

I am running 28 7970's and I can barely make enough money to warrant the time spent selling the coins on Cryptsy what is everyone else doing????

Hardware is not free... especially when you are running flat out at high temperatures.

Hardware depreciation cost is roughly equivalent to electricity in North America...
For me, at $0.10 KWh in Canada, $$ hardware > $$ power...
This concept that PCs are a "sunk cost" and therefore "free" is NONSENSE.

I have been running this set up since March and have managed to mine a total 105 Bitcoins (by trading alt coins) so have just covered the initial outlay on all the hardware but now I am not even paying the power costs.

The thing is this how many people are now running at a loss excluding the hardware payback?

If this trend continues are alt coins going to grind to a halt - I can not be the only person thinking this?

Could anyone else publish there actual earnings for the last 24 hour period versus power costs as opposed to what the mining calculators say?

The only winner at the moment for me is the power company!

Everyone else is doing the same as you, trying to profit from someone else. Obviously this is unsustainable, something has to give.

Yes. I predict 'the great alt crash' coming.

That is what I was getting at - it is just reassuring to know there are a few others thinking along the same lines.

I think it will be more of a slow drawn out death than a sudden collapse though.

It may have already started is the truth!

I would still be keen to know others actual profit and loss for a 24 hour period in the last week, that way there is some actual data to verify what I suspect.

Anyone happy to share?

Yeah, somethings gotta give.

I don't mine using GPUs anymore. Too expensive.

I don't mine anymore.

 Mining started out to be for 'hobby' reasons and for getting a stronger blockchain.

 I mean there are so many people willing to lose money on hardware + electricity for mining that , people who wants to earn money from it burns because of them.

Also unsustainable. Unless they are stealing electricity of course.

Agreed and even then how long can you steal electricity for - it is not really a sound business model.

The only thing is - in winter you can use some of the coins generated to offset your heating costs.

Pick a different coin...

I was just using CGB as an example as its average position is always high on the mining profitability charts and is what I had been mining for the past 24 hours.

No one else want to say what their Profit and Loss was for a 24 hour period in the last week or do you guys not analyse this data?

My analysis for today is as follows
Mining on middlecoin-> 24hr (-10 min power outage)
Hash rate-> 636kHps (566 kHps while I use my PC which has been 6.5 hrs in this 24 hr period)
Coins earned ->0.013423 BTC = 1.6376$
Electricity consumed? Not sure, the room I rented was too large for me so the other half is rented out to another family and we share the electric bill. Haven't kept an eye on the meter today, but when PC is hashing it should maximally be consuming 350 kWh (HD 7950 = 220 W, proccy = 65 W, the rest). I pay 0.065$ per unit. So let's say it's 9 kWh/day. So that is 0.59$ on electricity
Probable profit -> 1.047

I'm taking worse conditions, give or take it should be 1.3-1.6$/day/HD 7950 (if I calculate exact electricity costs, let the PC hash away at maximal capacity without using it etc)

Plus I could earn 0.002-0.008 BTC extra each day if I use multipool.us which is what I was using until their servers went kaput 2 days ago or use multiminer which I fiddled with yesterday. But I believe trading manually is too time consuming especially when you have to track so many scamcoins. Auto trade is kinda inefficient at the moment.

PS: just to add, not hashing for money, just experimenting. Bought this baby 7950 for gaming and that's what I gonna do when my exams are over next month. Aaaand this 7950 is a reviewer unit = far better PCB build. :p

LOL... I have free electricity in my condo...
As long as I don't go crazy no one notices.

That's why I focus on hardware cost.

Thanks man - it is interesting to see how cheap your electricity is - it is under half of what I have to pay!

Where are you based in the USA, I know it can not be California because they have insane green taxes and a stepped electricity tariff the more you use the higher the cost per KWh.

Yeah I wish they did that here but the problem is if you want to make some decent cash you need large amounts of electricity. Because in essence all we are doing is converting electricity into money, more electricity more money.

The feed into my apartment is 32 amps and I using about all of it for mining.

Based on those calculators, the alt-coins show a profitability percentage compared to mining bitcoin using the same hardware. Currently the best option for mining scrypt coins is the GPU. Nobody mines bitcoins with GPUs anymore because they're so inefficient compared to ASICs. So it's a misleading comparison.

For example:

Let's say you can mine .001 bitcoin per day, but you pay the equivalent of .01 bitcoin per day to power the GPU. That's clearly a money loser. But the enterprising miner looks at wheretomine.com and sees that AlphaCoin is 500% more profitable that bitcoin. Sounds good right?

When you start mining AlphaCoin and exchanging the coins for bitcoin, now you're bringing in .005 bitcoin per day. But the power cost of .01 bitcoin per day is the same, and you're still losing money.

Alt-coins are still causing you to lose money, you're just losing less than if you had been mining bitcoin directly with your GPU.

The profitability of sha256 coins is a more accurate indicator of alt-coin profitability, because you can mine them on ASICs, just like bitcoin. Look at the chart and you'll see that sha256 coins are never more profitable that mining bitcoin directly. If they were, they'd get flooded with ASICs and their difficulty would spike, driving their profitability back down very quickly.

IMO its down to the volume of coins on exchanges diluting values especially the ones with no services/future. If I was you sell your shizzle and buy asics like me :)

I'm not from US, I'm from India. But I believe some areas in US (I heard about some green county or something around Washington) have prices as low as 0.02/unit, which is what I'd be paying as well if I were in another state in India. Oh and btw Coinwarz is extremely wrong on predictions, it doesn't eve update the difficulty for all coins quick enough.

+1

This should be made a sticky post.

 There are  many places in the world where the electricity is very cheap. This means that you should to buy coins, and not mining them.
 
 What are you thinking about  when  you are building your rigs?

No one is interested in your problems with electricity ;D

Quite a few American families like at least a whole room to themselves too, instead of sharing a room with another family and splitting costs.

So although American families might in some areas find lower electricity costs they might end up paying so much more for a room, or maybe even multiple rooms, that it would eat up the electricity savings. Though maybe one could live in a shared room somewhere else and just rent enough space in America to co-host and power however many rigs you want to run.

Mining is hideously expensive, and justified mostly by the assumption that once you have massively more hashing power securing your chain or merged collection of chains than the entire remainder of the world could feasibly manage to combine together for an attack the sheer scale of the expense involved becomes more of a barrier to attackers than it is to the incumbents - the people defending the chain(s).

So basically it does not really make much sense for anyone to "pay you well" to waste electricity on a pretty much doomed attempt to defend one of many many many little toy blockchains that are not even all ganging up together via merged mining to at least share the cost of defense. Instead it makes much more sense to keep those chains so pathetically low in value that it is their sheer worthlessness that "protects" them from attack, by making them "not worth the trouble of attacking despite their puny defense".

Also, it seems most miners of alt-coins are not even really engaged in defending blockchains at all. Very often they damage the value of coins they mine by doing crazy things like driving their difficulty way high then abandoning them, so that blocks get generated massively slower than the target time, which seems unlikely to enhance the value of the coin. So those coins aren't even actually paying for security at all, they are in effect paying for the fact that they do not have enough security. Probably the first thing they should have done before launching was secure far far more hashing power than all the gang-bang pools all added together, so as to launch a coin with high enough hashing power that being gang-banged would not make much of a blip at all on their hashrate...

-MarkM-

I think you have summed it up very nicely and it made me laugh...

28!?

If you want to offload any I may buy some

It is just a fact gathering exercise - there are many places where the electricity is cheap but that is offset by the low wages paid and a $500 GPU could be a months pay. So it all evens out eventually cheap electric but no money to buy the hardware!

It seems so there is a promoting of scrypt asic. They are much more energy efficient ;)

There is a high possibility I will want to offload them in the very near future as it just does not make sense for me to mine.

If you send me a private message I will let you know as soon as I am 100% sure that I am going to dismantle my rigs.

Totally agree - it is the only thing that makes sense moving forward. It is unfortunate that no one is selling them yet.

I dont mean deep india, some east europe countries, and africa
I mind leading economic countries.

The experiments, pilot projects and initial deployments of what is now being called "CPU mining (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cpu_mining)" (a somewhat different approach than "dumb hashers" or even "fancy jane-type hashers" or even "prime chain finders" are accustomed to) are still looking quite promising, although they do not actually attempt to "secure" the currencies they are used with; instead their aim is simply to distribute the currencies. So although they seem to have been so far a "win" for their "miners" and for holders of the currencies (see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html for valuations) the problem of how to actually secure blockchains so that those currencies can reasonably move back to using blockchains (like they used to originally) is still a waiting game. (Wait until the sheer volume of transactions is high enough for the transaction fees to be enough to attract and retain hashers...)

-MarkM-

Don't hold your breath.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3222593#msg3222593

LTC ASIC
ASICMINER determined LTC ASIC is not viable since a high-speed memory bus is much more useful in other industries and very expensive to make in this regard.

Who buys a new GPU for farming! You can find loads of 7950's going on ebay being auctioned for 100$ or even less.

Mining for profit on day to day basis is not viable at the moment.
what I have found is mine and sit on it until it becomes profitable to sell (fingers crossed)

No, you are definitely not the only one thinking along the lines that gpu mining just might not be worth it by year's end.

Hence why CGB has accelerated PoW subsidy halving.  And we'll be experimenting in testnet as strictly a PoS blockchain.  Yes, there are potential DOS issues with PoS, but we're researching the possibility of different solutions.  Because we'd like to get rid of PoW altogether, especially with respect to energy efficiency.  This was the plan from the start.  We just have to tweak the math (among other things) so we can assure a lower bound on the number and frequency of PoS blocks in the future.  And this is exactly why we are marketing CGB as a value preserving/interest bearing 'investment' vehicle, which can be used as a currency.  We never once tried to be an all-knowing-all-seeing currency to displace Bitcoin or USD.  

In my humble opinion, scrypt-only coins will survive by true supporters willing to take a loss from electricity in order to secure the blockchain.  But in general, scrypt-only coins are in trouble.


-Merc

Cryptsy started rolling out a feature several weeks ago that lets you mark wallets for "auto sell". So one potential setup with MultiMiner would be to:

• Setup MultiMiner to mine the most profitable coins
• Setup all of your alt-coin pools to deposit to your balances to Cryptsy
• Set your Cryptsy wallets to auto-sell
• Login to Cryptsy every few weeks and withdraw BTC
• Optionally enable profitable coin suggestions in MultiMiner

Coinwarz is slow on updates and/or inaccurate at times with the profits. Also, they don't have other coins that are more profitable to mine on there. To be honest, mining has some many variables to account for: equipment costs, electricity usage/cost per kwhr, a coin's exchange rate, difficulty mining the coin, etc..... I'm have second thoughts of backing out of mining and just buying coins outright and selling at the right time, just like the stock market....Electricity companies are making a killing off of miners....Last month, after electricity cost, I made $70 USD with my 3 GPU card setup.....Just put it like this, not something enough to make a living off of yet....Only those who were fortunate to mine the first 3 years of Bitcoin and 1st year of Litecoin, made the most profits....