Bitcoin Forum

Group buy details

Chips
Chips are 28 mBTC each, with a minimum order size of 10 chips. The amount of Bitcoin required to cover the shipping cost is based on the "Shipping" table below and the current "sell" rate on Coinbase. Calculate what you owe in bitcoin for the chips and for shipping, and send your payments to 1LZPtQvZejprmQUovDc7CGENm2cKCftyRX. Once you have sent payment, PM me or email me at ryepdx+gen2@gmail.com with the number of chips you ordered, the transaction ID for the payment, your forum screen name, your first and last name, the mailing address you want your chips shipped to, and your email address

Send your payment from a wallet you control and can sign messages with. DO NOT SEND FROM A WEB WALLET. In the event there is a dispute over who owns a particular transaction, you will have to sign a message to prove ownership of the sending address. Also, refunds will be sent back to the address the funds were sent from, which can cause bitcoin to be completely lost if they were sent from a web wallet. If you send from a web wallet and then lose your bitcoin because your refund gets sent back to an address the web wallet doesn't associate with your account, you will have no recourse save to try to work things out with the web wallet. I will not be able to help you, and you should have read this and followed directions anyway.

Miners (tentative)
If we can get at least 20 2nd generation K16s ordered, we'll go ahead with that as well. Cost of components and assembly for each K16 at a total of 20 miners is $218 apiece. The price will go down if we can get more orders, since about half of that price will go to pay for JohnK to design the new PCB and to cover the cost of new components. If you're already a Stumptown Miners customer and you haven't requested a refund, your cost will be $110 per miner. Again, that price will go down with the number of orders we can get above 20, since the cost of redesigning the PCB for the new chips is fixed. Please use the Coinbase "sell" rate to figure what that comes out to in BTC.

Buyer Protection
JohnK still has my identity information, and will likely be willing to do another identity escrow like he did for the first Stumptown Miners batch. I've PMed him and will let you know when he gets back to me. In the meantime, you'll just have to take my word that I will refund any funds I receive if the group buy is not successful. However, if the group buy is successful, the chips will be ordered and refunds will no longer be an option.

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Terms of Sale

• Full payment of all costs incurred is required prior to shipment to final destination.
• Address signing is required for dispute settlement.
• All sample chips will be given to open source hardware developers to facilitate production.
• We assume no responsibility for any issues that may arise due to circumstances outside our control, including but not limited to Avalon failing to ship, shipment being seized by customs, shipment arriving late, etc.
• All chips purchased are sold AS IS, with no warranty of any kind.
• You may choose to change your address a maximum of two times.
• In order to change your shipping address you must sign the change order with the purchase address.
• Any funds sent may be refunded up until the point the group buy is successful, at which point you may no longer request a refund. If the group buy is not successful, the full BTC amount you sent will be refunded to your sending address.

(Apologies to steamboat, who probably finds those terms very familiar.)

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How to Purchase Chips
Calculate the total BTC you owe by multiplying the number of chips you want by 0.028, and then calculate shipping cost based on the shipping provider you want (see the table below) and the current "sell" rate on Coinbase. Send that amount to 1LZPtQvZejprmQUovDc7CGENm2cKCftyRX. PM me here or email me at ryepdx+gen2@gmail.com with the number of chips you ordered, the transaction ID for the payment, your forum screen name, your first and last name, the mailing address you want your chips shipped to, and your email address.

Send your payment from a wallet you control and can sign messages with. DO NOT SEND FROM A WEB WALLET. In the event there is a dispute over who owns a particular transaction, you will have to sign a message to prove ownership of the sending address. Sending from a web wallet can also lead to the total loss of your bitcoin in the event of a refund.

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Shipping
Shipping costs will vary depending on your stated preferences, but by default I will be using USPS flat rate Priority Mail shipping. If you are not in the US or want me to use a different shipping provider, please specify your preferred shipping provider in your initial message to me.

Shipping time:	|2-3 days|	|Overnight|	|6-10 days|	|3-5 days|	|6-10 days|	|3-5 days|
Chip Amount:	|US Priority|	|US Express|	|Canada Priority|	|Canada Express|	|Int'l Priority|	|Int'l Express|
1-50	$10.80	$45.95	$24.95	$74.95	$33.95	$89.95
51-250	$17.35	$45.95	$50.95	$74.95	$69.95	$89.95
251-500	Free	$45.95	$50.95	$74.95	$69.95	$89.95
501-750	Free	Free	$63.95	$74.95	$87.95	$89.95
751-1000	Free	Free	Free	$74.95	$87.95	$89.95
1001+	Free	Free	Free	Free	Free	Free

(Again, apologies to steamboat, who probably finds this table astoundingly familiar.)

I'm interested, obviously depending on the details when they are released :)

Ryan,

I'm interested.  Hopefully the K16 design will be stable by then and we can start hashing earlier.  I'll probably have 4 K16s to load with Gen2 chips, so potentially 64 chips depending on price.

Cheers,
Tom

Sorry, I really don't know how you can trust Yifu after everything he's done to your fellow miners. A lot of 'em.

I, for one, will *never* deal with unprofessional, uncaring Avalon and BFL.

Yesterday, I had a phone call with John S., the head of marketing at HashFast. I found him to be a true marketing professional. He appeared to care about his clients, and I found it easy enough to work with him to convince him to let us have access to HashFast Flash Sale pricing up until Friday night thanks to a partially reserved 4th miner, even though the sale ended last night.

Contrast that with Inaba fro BFL & Yifu from Avalon. Over a month ago, I, a true CSR pro and Tier I/II/III IT support person (in addition to network design) offered to help Yifu out of his self-inflicted hole when he came out of so-called "mafia" hiding. I would've gotten every one of those refunds done in a week, two weeks tops. So instead of letting people that actually like doing CSR work fix the problem he created, he just ignored me like everyone else he ignored...and people and some Group Buys are still waiting months for refunds.

You can do whatever you want, of course, since we have free will. But from what I've seen from GBC after GBC, I only see pain and headaches for people trying to organize Avalon Gen 2 pre-orders.

Don't you see all the threads about people *still* waiting months for Avalon chip or system refunds? You really should read SebastianJu's post on the top of this forum before proceeding IMHO.

What's your take on all that angst and anger?

I understand where you are coming from. Part of me hopes that this time will be different, since they have pledged to only sell what they already have on hand. Primarily I am looking to recoup the sunk cost of the Klondike components I've bought. The group buy I was in has opted for a refund, and I've got thousands of dollars in Klondike components sitting around and waiting for Avalon chips. I don't imagine I'm the only one in this situation. On top of this, a few of the people who decided to use my assembly service contacted me in public and in private to see if I was willing to do a group buy for the generation 2 chips. So here I am. :-)

DyslexicZombei, though I agree with you, I am one of the people ryepdx is speaking of. The only chance of me recouping some of my losses on the chips, parts and assembly is to use it for gen2 chips. With that said, I still need more details, dates and numbers before making final decision.

I just can't simply trow away thousands of dollars just to make a statement.

For anyone else, I agree, stay away from the likes of Avalon and BFL.

Excellent! I totally understand where you guys are coming from, trying to recoup whatever you can from your Avalon expenditures.

I really wasn't trying to stop sales or steal your thunder, but provide more of a gut check because Yifu's behavior is disturbing IMO, no matter what the heck might be happening behind the scenes.

==

If you guys proceed, I wish you all the very best!

I'm interested, from the same standpoint of still having some BTC invested in hardware which now will never have gen 1 chips in it, but could maybe see life with gen 2 (I have 3 Stumptown board orders).

I'd be interested :)

yes

Since I've paid for two full K16 assemblies with steamboat I'd be interested as well, providing steamboat doesn't directly handle this.  Watching, jic.

Interested.  Paid for 51 K16s, and I'd like to see some chips on there if Yifu pulls through.

Just saw this thread. I'm interested.

If you need an escrow, and your favorite one isn't available, I'm here. (I could also do a GB but it's probably better you do it.)

I'm interested in this as well.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I'm going to go ahead with a group buy, then, as soon as Avalon's terms of sale are available. And again, if you're interested in being notified when that happens, PM me or watch this thread. I'll be announcing it here when it happens.

Ryan,

Perhaps you should also talk to sensei (he's in Michigan) he mentioned on the K16 thread that he has enough parts for 500 boards - that would go a long way towards making 10k for a group buy (presuming the quantities will be the same the second time around).

Also, from steamboats buy, it is good to be clear up front about your right to make decisions on behalf of the group in the event things go wrong - lost in shipping, cancelled by bitsyncomm and set expectations on how much refund, if any, buyers would expect should things go wrong.

I'd like to participate but I'm waiting to hear from steamboat about the parts I've bought from him.

Thanks,
Tom

I am also interested. Need to use all these components sitting on my desk :(

I'm interested also, but the price and the hashrate would have to be good.

Best solution... modify your designs for Bitfury and avoid Avalon.

Great, but that doesn't help those who have already had PCBs manufactured.

Do the new chips need a different voltage? Is it enough to change one resistor in the DC-DC converter to make an Avalon 1 board into an Avalon 2 board?

I'm definitely interested. Too many unused parts laying around to count the k16 a loss yet.

A quick google search brought me to the design contest, which has links for the gen2's datasheet and reference.

http://avalon-asics.com/avalon-upload-more-55nm-asic-documents/ (http://avalon-asics.com/avalon-upload-more-55nm-asic-documents/)

https://github.com/BitSyncom/Avalon2-ref/ (https://github.com/BitSyncom/Avalon2-ref/)

I havn't looked over anything yet, but this should help us work out any differences from the gen1.

Cut your losses.

I'll make that decision once I have enough info on the v2 Avalon chips.  I've got many thousands wrapped up in this.  If there's a way for me to get more than 50 percent on my investment (which is where I'm sitting now by just scrapping the whole thing), I'll take it.

i am interest also...

IMO,Bitfury boards MAY use about 60-70% of the Avalon boards parts,just my 2 cents.You may STILL need new PCB's too,so its a lose either way  ::)

I've asked this exact question to several GB coordinaters & this seems to be the best case scenario.

As far as I know a PCB cost what,$5 or so.So it's a small price to pay................................

Personally,I will NOT buy Avalon ever again,they DO NOT deserve "our" BTC or our funds in any way shape or form  >:(

Good Luck with your project  ;)

Ryan,

Did you see this?

Cheers,
Tom

http://avalon-asics.com/apply-for-55nm-sample-chips/

You can still apply for sample chips before choosing to buy a large number. Please fill in the table here when your design is finished: http://avalon-asics.com/avalon-gen2-55nm-open-source-design-contest/. You can buy chips in stock either this website or from Avalon agents. There will be no more pre-ordering.

Chips are being auctioned.

https://www.tradehill.com/auctions

I would be interested in getting a few part to experiment with.

Alright, it looks like the Avalon generation 2 chips auction will be starting soon. I got the same email TomKeddie did. With these on the K16s, it looks like each one should produce 24 Gh/s now. However, even with the increased performance, ROI isn't looking too good. (I'm using the calculator over at http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ (http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/).)

With that said, I'm still willing to facilitate this group buy if there's interest. It does look like there is, so I've already transferred some of my own BTC over to Tradehill in preparation for the auction. Unless I hear a bunch of "nays" in the face of the released numbers, I'll be writing up a group buy agreement and posting it here in the morning. I'll also send out a PM to JohnK asking for his escrow services.

Ryan,

AFAIK the PCB isn't going to be compatible, do you have someone working on a new board design?  Most of the components can be re-used.  I sent a few PMs off today too see if anything was happening.

Thanks,
Tom

Tom beat me to it, interest is dependent on pcb. Have you got a board designer willing to take 'say the klondike' to the next level.

Isn't it just the setting of the DC-DC converter which is different, i.e. one resistor? Maybe too naive thinking of me...

I haven't look into it myself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.msg3453235#msg3453235

Thanks for the heads-up, TomKeddie and southerngentuk. As time is at a premium for me just now, I'm going to hold off on drafting a formal group buy agreement until I get some insight into the viability of creating new PCBs for the generation 2 chips. It doesn't sound like it'd take much alteration, but I could be wrong.

Unsurprisingly there doesn't seem to be a huge demand for these chips.  There isn't much point to an auction when the starting price is the price you expect for something.  Will be more interesting if these come back onto the market at bargain prices.

Auctioning them on Tradehill with all the verification seams like a bad idea to me

Any word on this?

tradehill.com

I think these chips will be back on the market super cheap soon.

I'm personally very wary of getting into this, as much as I want to get back what we put into components. With that said, Colin has offered to design a PCB for around $2k. This will bring up the price of the 2nd gen miners a bit, but since it's a fixed cost I'll try to spread it out over however many orders we get (if there is interest) in order to minimize the impact.

At any rate, given that there are zero bids on the Tradehill website, I'm inclined to think that we'll see the chips again soon at a lower price point. Unless enough people disagree with me to drive this thing forward, I think we should wait this first auction out.

Thoughts?

It's worth a try. I'm not gung-ho either, and the first auction (of Avalon Minis) saw two deadline extensions and minimum bid drops before the auction actually happened -- the initial minimum bid was 9BTC, then that dropped to 6BTC, then 2BTC and in the final auction they sold for 2.21BTC/ea, which was a great price. We don't know that that will happen again, but a price drop would certainly make the chips more appealing, especially with all the inevitable delays that will come with setting them in boards.

Does the new board require significant changes? Could my initial Klondike order be reapplied to these (still-hypothetical) boards?

How about licensing the hex16 variant for Nth America?  I guess it depends on the component re-use factor.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323727.0

Price for a 500-chip reel reduced to 12BTC on the Avalon site:
http://avalon-asics.com/product/a3255-55nm-chip-500-count-reel/

I would be in for 10 chips or so just to experiment with.

Okay, I've been mulling this over for a few days now, and I'm making a decision. I'm opening the group buy. For those of you who trust me and don't need a comprehensive group buy agreement to jump on board, send your payments to 1LZPtQvZejprmQUovDc7CGENm2cKCftyRX and PM me with the number of chips you ordered as well as the transaction ID for the payment. Minimum 10 chips per order, please. Chips are 28 mBTC apiece.

If we can get at least 20 2nd generation K16s ordered, we'll go ahead with that as well. Cost of components and assembly for each K16 at a total of 20 miners is $218 apiece. The price will go down if we can get more orders, since about half of that price will go to pay for JohnK to design the new PCB and to cover the cost of new components. If you're already a Stumptown Miners customer and you haven't requested a refund, your cost will be $110 per miner. Again, that price will go down with the number of orders we can get above 20, since the cost of redesigning the PCB for the new chips is fixed. Please use the Coinbase "buy" rate to figure what that comes out to in BTC.

As for buyer protection, JohnK still has my identity information, and will likely be willing to do another identity escrow like he did for the first Stumptown Miners batch. I've PMed him and will let you know when he gets back to me.

so all in, about $20 a GH yes?

$120 in chips
$218 for the board?

Official terms posted in the OP! Please let me know if you have any questions.


My calculations work out to around $14 per Gh/s. Each chip supplies 1.5 Gh/s, and each board will have 16 chips. That's 24 Gh/s. Since each complete miner is roughly (due to the BTC component, which fluctuates) $339.85, that makes for about $14.16 per Gh/s.

That's about the same price as a fully populated Bitfury rig (256 chips).  While that's getting a bit closer to doable, a lot of the Bitfury gear will likely be dropping in price by the time this stuff can be assembled/shipped.

Is there a time line for this group buy.
I would want my chip as soon as I could get them.
Also Avalon says they are going to reduce the price with every difficulty change.

Understood. I would be packaging and sending the chips out as soon as I got them. One day turnaround, maximum. I'm working freelance gigs right now, so my time's flexible enough to do that. The rest just depends on when Avalon ships. Should be soon, since they are no longer selling items they don't already have in hand.

This will not end well.

As far as profitability goes, these chips are *not* the best deal out there, IMO. But some people had expressed interest, so I figured I'd give it a chance. And I don't doubt that Avalon will ship within their projected timeframe this time.

Okay, I've only had one person join so far. I'm giving this another 24 hours. If we don't have a full group buy by then, I think I'm just going to call this off.

I want to buy 10 chips to experiment with but it doesn't seem there is enough interest for a group buy to go through.

 

I'd be willing to pick up about 112. Plus they're the only one in stock around.

Price dropped to 6 BTC

http://avalon-asics.com/product/a3255-55nm-chip-500-count-reel/


( I still hate Yifu, but I hate Josh more)