Bitcoin Forum

I'm tired of hearing so much negativity when it comes to mining bitcoin and alts. For the Antminers, in particular, people continue to say that they don't produce a "ROI". That's just so much BS and FUD spreading...STOP IT!

I've done a ton of research on bitcoin and litecoin mining (using ltcwisdom.net) and even with serious increases to difficulty on a weekly basis (based on average increases) and, again, assuming the price of the coins don't drop extensively, you can BREAKEVEN (stop saying "ROI" when you mean BE by the way...you can have a negative ROI...so when you say "you won't ROI" that doesn't make sense) in 7-9 months on a L3+. That's worst case scenario. Best case is 4-5 months breakeven. Then, after that, it's ALL PROFIT. What is so bad about that if you have 15 machines? So you wait 4-5 months until it's paid back. And yes, maybe you're not making as much as when you first got the machines due to difficulty but you're sitting on passive income.

Same thing goes for the A3....oh boo hoo you're not making $500/day. Boo hoo you're not making $50/day. Even making $10-15/day when the machine costs $1,000 is worth it assuming you can get for a month or two. Even if you only get that rate for a month, you're paying off at least 50% -75% of your investment. That's the risk you take....

So please stop spreading FUD - we know you just don't want competition...too bad.

End Rant.

My 2.6k rig (1080 ti, 1080, 1080, 1070) brings in 6 euros a day. That's ROI (or BE or whatever you want to call it) of 416,6666666666667 days. Without talking about the electricity costs - how high or low they may be.

I can't really be positive about those numbers. Don't know what planet you live on, but mining conditions at this time -and we are ALL in it for the money, even those who say they are not- are terrible.


https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/53599267/are-you-stupid-or-something.jpg

I'm talking ASICs...

I was speaking theoretically. I BE last year. Now I'm in the what you call the "ALL PROFIT" zone.. Pretty crappy.
That's why I'm so negative about mining. And I'm not the only one here.

what i dont really get is why someone who is negative about mining in general would read a mining forum  ??? ??? ???

I know right?! Makes no sense...it's all FUD mongers...I'm tired of it.

I'm in VC and invest in startups...I get the risk vs reward idea.

1. Buying and holding has traditionally been more profitable than mining.

2. Everyone who bought during the craze is about to become obsolete as a new generation of Nvidia cards come out and put them in negative profitability.

3. ASICs suck and so do ASIC coins, why would you launch a coin without ASIC resistant code?????? Centralization, market manipulation, exclusiveness. If you're into that you need to GTFO, ASICs are cancer.

4. When Ethereum goes POS if you haven't sold your GPUs your screwed. Ether refugees will drive profits through the floor.

5. POW isn't going to win.

well you dont know if another ethereum like coin will come out

Good moral/ideology points but still waiting for the financial analysis proving me wrong on Antminer ASICs (specifically L3+ purchases).

Buying and holding seems to be riskier use of proceeds - at least with mining you have hardware and could potentially resale if price drops or a new version comes out.

I hear rumors that S9's will become obsolete this summer with new releases, so I agree that going all in on S9's right now probably not a great idea given the $2,600 price point.

If you buy the right coins at the right time. GPU mining is a hedge against a market downturn, in that your ongoing costs are essentially the same for any coin and your cost per coin is less than the market value of those coins. My HD 7850 from 2014 is still mining and profitable.

Mining profits are currently about what they are historically. What is terrible are the prices to startup a rig compared to what they were 2 months ago.

That's at the current price of whatever currency you are mining. (ETH?) I am betting on ETH to be over 4k within a year or two.

u r mining the wrong coin. with your setup you should be doing 15€ net per day...research a little bit before calling ppl stupid...

I honestly don't think mining isn't profitable. I had a GTX 950 lying around, and now I'm making 1.5 dollar a day mining ZEC. I definitely did think mining was a waste when I was mining monero though. The pool I was using had a threshold of .5 monero, and a week into mining the diff started rising dramatically. Fast forward 2 months later, I had 50 bucks that I cannot cash out :( But on nano pool the threshold is .01 ZEC, so definitely I'm a happy miner, even though the income isn't huge. Atlas it pays for my WIFI and electric and some of my water :)

So many people make these claims without any clue as to what they are talking about. Its amazing the amount of disinformation you can find on these forums.

Cause people are stupid, paying $1000 for a rx 580 is beyond stupid, they will never get their money back and resellers will keep the price high cause there are idiots paying what they want.

I paid $1000 for my water cooled 1080ti with a 4 year warranty... im glad i dont have to worry until the year 2022.....

bitcoin needs to go over $17,000 to indicate a bull market so HODL

Some people F.U.D. in order to try to discourage other potential miners from joining and driving up the difficulty. Other's are just ill tempered in general or trolls without anything else to invest effort into.

Then again some people are legitimately irked at the "get rich quick" influx of new miners during the big profitability spike at the end of 2017.

I think they say negative about mining maybe because they do not see connection between mining and end products they consume. Or maybe for the extremely hard working conditions for the workers in the past.

Oh Cool.  Which charts and which ta indicators are you using on those charts to come to that conclusion?

No conclusion btc just will over time right now there holding stable at about 10 k  once they start back up they may stop at 21k then back down an hold at 17 k for a while ,I don't want BTC going up to fast and getting to much attention from the GOV but that's how i see it ...beside 10k isn't to bad.  as far as being negative about mining, i tend to agree with most it trolls and those who don't like sharing it's the greedy ones.

and any miner now will still be usable for at least a year plus... including ASIC miners ..... it all depends what you want out of mining ...  I have a batch three L3 + miner coming next month and may buy a few of the V9 and i said i wouldn't buy bit main again up til now i held out ... it's just to much fun and one big addiction ...

Link from another thread on this topic on why I'm dubious on bitmain units of any flavor at this point in time ...you getting 12-14 month ROI with electric...from their products

based on past experiences and the increase in game playing and stalling the shipping of equipment according to difficulty and or a rapid price increase in coin...bitmain is a master

of this IMHO

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2769785.msg31152081#msg31152081 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2769785.msg31152081#msg31152081)


anyway my view....you can review above

hope I am incorrect.....I have legacy miners...but sure don't like the trend....

That wasn't a question posed to you or anyone else other than ... Digital Drug Lord who stated 17K btc indicates a bull market.  When does 17K indicate that?  And based on what charting?  He posted no charting.  ZERO ... Last week when he said the same thing, or today, and based on what? Lol.  Numbers just thrown out the ass based on something he heard and he thinks it doesn't change, day by day.  Nothing more.  That's all I meant.

As far as people just wanting to keep people out of mining ... In the case of the very shitty outlook that Metroid (I like him more and more as he has became way less of an asshole) has, I don't think he is wrong in saying that people should not be spending 1K on a RX 580 ... Personally, I wouldn't pay 1K for a 1080ti.  If I were buying gpu's right now, I wouldn't buy anything less than a 1080ti, but I certainly wouldn't pay 1k for them.  I wouldn't buy a 1080ti at MSRP right now (partially, because I already have several of them) But ... We're too close to something better coming along to start buying up the last few at high price points, in my opinion.

Bottom line is that if you're just getting into gpu mining in Jan/Feb of 2018, you're kinda fucking yourself as opposed to watching and waiting, unless you're getting the deals that are not advertised on any retailer website for gpu's.  That isn't to say that you'll never make your money back.  But ... You should be mining and holding for better days.  Mining for daily cashouts was only a thing for a very short peroid of time.  Those days may come back, but they won't last ... Just as they didn't last this past time. 

the analysis is enough making laugh.
you know the case the Fork NXT become IGNIS coin. the trader traditionally (I use your Idiom). they buying NXT at the price high because they hope to get an IGNIS coin. after few hour a price of NXT decreases drastically until now. and the price of IGNIS not too happy sound. So, short to story they (traditionally) become a big loss (almost all). it's different with than mining, right say, at this time the profit coin low better when buying RIG (and you say: Buying and holding has traditionally been more profitable than mining.). but if you when loss, you never have anything.if mining (miners) still have the RIG to switch another coin the profitable and they have full control to manage a profit.

my nightmare view of bitmain and why folk hate mining..hopefully I'm wrong about how dire this may be (then again trump was elected president...all evils are possible)

yep....the march/april/...glut....asic wise...mainly scrypt-pow stuff L3+'s ..of stuff shipped ...with nothing of note (scrypt-pow miner wise anyway) from Dec to March/April of 2018 in the world...all bitmain mining difficulty being driven up ...as mostly the only game in town adding new hash...up those

months. w/o equip hitting consumers...just data hall run up....then announce say end of April new equip lower electric say 1TB units...available end of say August/Sept another NO MINERS available from then till say May to Sept/Oct when you as a consumer can get your hands on a

consumer version of the new asic miners...that bitmain has mined the heck out of for the summer...thus in a period of say Jan thru Say Sept (9 months) equipment actually hits

the consumer world 2x .....April (as the main push) and Sept (as the 2nd push) the other 7 months mainly is bitmain sitting on pre-orders and mining like hell from Jan to March/April

and then with new equipment over the summer...mining like hell from say June thru Sept....(I say sept by the time you get the consumer equipment in hand)

and as a further evil bitmain trick...the bitmain sales site is mainly inaccessible ...and hard to order from (driving up demand) and the usual adjustment in price of units and numbers

compared to difficulty and say LTC price...so the units in those 9 months could vary in price depending on low or high price of LTC by as much as 1,000 usd or more..from 1 week or month to the next...one way or the other

and/or on a whim ..bitmain just deciding not to sell anything for 3 months ..just to help their own mining data halls vs difficulty...the usual possiblities of catch all catch can on the site..

got to admit as 'evil plans go' and 90% of all asic equipment to the consumer comes thru bitmain... they are playing us like a 'fiddle' indeed!

(bitmain: evil makes the heart grow fonder....for more evil!) (tm: bitmain)

Again, hope all above is incorrect...just fleshing out the 'supposed' nightmare game plan...(or how to pretend to be jihan wu and piss off the world game)

IF we get say $300 buck LTC in march/april...the glut of equipment (scrypt-pow) should maybe float and still have a chance of ROI and my stuff (legacy) could maybe plop along

till fall....IF LTC was $400 ...then perhaps the march/april stuff could ROI and (if possible) getting new asic tech equipment for fall 2018 may pay off also or worth the gamble

in other words we slide by....bitmain wins big if we don't ROI and really, really big if we do ROI

but, betting on supposed LTC price to carry us thru on bitmain's plans for their own equipment/data halls and consumer sales of Asics is always tricky

be sure though either $300 or $400 LTC bitmain will be the BIG winner...and we will get the crumbs.....(again...bitmain: its how we roll!)

my 2 satoshi fantasy (hopefully) above

and why most people are 'somewhat' pessimistic on ASIC miners ..specifically the scrypt-pow versions vs bitmain's data halls.....slim pickings indeed!

Uh, maybe it just have been happening on its own based on how mining was designed by Crytocurrencies like Litecoin.
A specialized mining equipment like ASICs will always makes the true nature of mining based on how digital currencies are designed out of track.
Same as Pools (Pools are evil too)

ASICs are made to step-up one's game.
Pools are made for standard miners to battle ASICs.
Both makes the cryptocurrency mining a fukcd-up game.

This needs to stop, No  ::).

Please, just stop with this f.....g nonsense!!! Did you even realise that outside are parts of the world where you earn just 50dolars per months for a very hard work 16h per day 7days per week?
And You just getting a very good ammount of money almost for free!!!

People who don't have a possibility to buy video-adapters, don't know how to work with all equipment, don't have time to understand how this thing (mining) works and etc. - they will always have a great number of bad stories and negative approach for any kind of mining
And as higher price bitcoin or other krypto will get more and more negaive stories will appear everywhere
I don't know anyone from miners who has a negative opinion about it's mining-machine or about the whole of mining process

they are negative, because they mised when btc was 1$
others are mad because they cant buy gpu for gaming

Here are some numbers from my Avalon 741:


https://imgur.com/a/jAeWl

Asics are Loud, Hot and not very profitable, even when BTC is at $11,400 usd.

Who knows what BTC will do in the next 494 days.

I would not suggest anyone buys an ASIC right now


Here is the link for the $1450 price: https://blokforge.com/product-category/new-miners/

And I forgot to add: Power supplies and controllers will add another $300 and 101 days to the totals

595 days ROI at  this point in time

No FUD
Just fact

I think the same. All gamers want the GPU for gaming, but it's too expensive.

Permonik:

You can't compare the income in a part of the world where $50 a month is a lot.

There are few people that would spend (or have) 3 years of income ($1750/$50 a month= 35 months) to buy an Asic. 

If you make $50 a month you would be nuts to risk 3 years of income on an ASIC.

Dude - simple math...

ASIC A3 is making $30/day.

$30*30 = $900

Cost of 1 A3 - ~$1,000

Breakeven = 1 month

Say difficulty goes up and you only make $15/day...

$15*30 = $450
Cost of 1 A3 - ~$1,000

Breakeven = 2 months

I don't know what universe you live in but a 2 month B/E is hella good in the business world.

Cheapest ebay BIN A3 is $2200 + $200 for a PSU:https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=a3+miner&_sop=15

Bitmain is sold out.

Please post your link for a $1000 A3.

If you can find one at that price, and can get it quick, I would take the risk.

I'm suprised SIA is still making that.

https://shop.bitmain.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020180129095202674bwQAJFdr06CB

It's on their front page...

Those sold out a while ago.  There are NO $1000 A3's to be had that ship today.

That posting ships out in the future, not today ( if it were still available)

And that is batch 2.

Batch 1 went from $500/day to $100 in like 2 days, and is now down to $30.

Batch 2, (the link you point at) might not be as bad, but using those ratio's: $30/day down to about $1.80/day in a couple of months.

This is not free money, factor in electric cost, factor in difficulty rise, do all of the math and its not FUD.

LOL

These have not been sold out "for a while". They sold out 2-3 days ago...I bought 6 of them for that price

And that's not how it works mathematically re: the mining revenue. Sorry

damn you have cheap wifi / electric and water :)

You said you started mining. Even if your saying that these are FUD is valid, if I were you, I will keep spreading that so called FUD.The lesser miner, the better, right?

Ahhhh, I see, you have $7200 invested and you are worried/seeking assurance.

I honestly wish you the best, hopefully the income will not drop.

If these are your first ASICs, i would suggest that you have the power supplies set up and ready to go, get then online as fast as you can.

Please update this post with your progress

Most old adopters or people who mined in 2016 or earl 2017 aren't negative.

The people who are negative are the ones who overpaid for expensive Nvidia GPUs that they got in Jan and are now making exactly half of their gains.

Most old adopters are still hashing away with their 7970s, 290 and don't really care about ROI.

They're simply envy in general because it needs money to get into it.

They can't comprehend the concept of blockchain, which why they believe miners get their money out of nowhere and all the cryptocurrency economy is a simple fraud in essential.

The issue, obviously, is that cryptomining is more well known than any time in recent years.

What's more, as more individuals find the idea, more individuals require equipment to control their new side interest. Without a quick increment in supply from designs card creators like Nvidia, AMD, Asus, and others, it's far-fetched that this issue is leaving at any point in the near future.

Why would anyone be negative? This trend will soon change. GPUs will become cheaper, mining profitability will go up. I promise you, its always the same circle. We've been here before, saying mining is "dead" a 100 times. Just relax and be happy, keep mining.

Imagine what will happen if Ethereum goes POS, 2-3 million or more GPUs have to go somewhere or get sold. Interesting times ahead indeed!! :)

The Ethereum going to PoS is a staged process. So the effect will be less when GPU go to other algorithms slowly.

The method will be implemented slowly. It's not gonna be like today you mine etherium and tomorrow you don't. Apart from that there're a lot of valid coins profitable to mine. And even if all miners swap to them they will pull the diffuculty up to the skies and the price of the mined coin correspondingly. Ethereum itself wouldn't have cost so much had it been not a big deal to mine some.
Total network hashrate defines the price.

Toatally agree... it's pretty tiresome to read someone posting their sad story when they just started and they didn't bother to look at a little bit of history. I would still be hashing away with my 290s but honestly they were just so hot and power hungry that I got 1070s pretty early when I saw that they perform roughly as well as a 290 but for half the watts. Glad I got them before every person who read headlines about BTC going past $20k thought they had to jump in on this "free money".

That's one very important point about GPU mining. I was able to mine with 290s for around 12-15 months (many of them used 290s) then I was able to sell them on Ebay and get back at least half what I paid for them or better, when they had already easily paid for themselves - but you're right, I didn't care. It just made it financially easier to transition to 1070s - especially before 1070's were like trying to buy unicorn shit. The important thing is I was able to keep mining because it's GREAT FUN. Sometimes it makes a lot of money, sometimes it makes just over costs, (if I were mining to cash out staright away which I'm not) but either way I think if you are mining purely for profit and you don't actually enjoy it as a technical challenge and a great hobby - naturally you are going to be sad about it when it isn't churning out big profits, and then I guess you might post some negativity and FUD. Then you are a sad boring person IMHO.

Crypto mining is a very important part of a new (probably) world changing technological ecosystem. I'm happy just to be part of that. Any ROI I have made (many times over) is just a bonus that allows me to keep doing it.

i worked in mining and now i am mining monero but mining is so difficult job that you must consume hardware and also electric power, and if you check the mining process u will find out that the heat of mining like Heater. you need some external cooler to cool the mining room. and other disadvantage of mining is that, you must hold your coin to reach a good point vs BTC or $. some of devices  will had been some problem with rigs and also other problems. so it seems that some one prefer trading or other ways to earn money.

Yes as I know mining difficult job, and earn a little bit more than a few years ago. Must have a great high specification hardware to do, cooler, make the mining room cool and run 24 hours etc. Most of people now do another ways to earn money like investment, trading etc. I ask my friends why he do mining? He said now is hard to earn the money. So most of people thinking negative about mining. Making per day from mining smaller than cost of mining. It's a big risk!

The other impact of mining is its hog up all the GPUs. Gamers are not able to buy GPU at decent price. This is the side effect of mining. GPU sellers are selling at very high price and still many people are buying for mining.