Bitcoin Forum

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/31

After contacting CoinTerra directly they have responded that they aren't selling any public shares.

Even not a scam, the stock is not a good buy.
They are seriously overpriced with a market cap of 20m USD and their projected network share of 30% is doubtful.

I feel the same way. Perfect timing when radio silence is present...
https://picostocks.com/businessplan/31

Only on bitcointalk  ::)

https://i.imgur.com/uy6icfj.png

Are there any other sources besides this Sou that CoinTerra is not doing IPO on Picostocks? This claim doesn't sound too legit.

You should definitely go buy some. Please, buy some.

You don't look very smart pretending there are only 2 options: to believe you or buy some shares.

There is an infinite amount of options, and i encourage everyone to select the one the suits their own subjective reality the best. Now, if you could keep the personal attacks to a minimum, and stay on topic that would be great.  

Where have you said any personal attacks? The only thing I attacked - is the lack of information. I've tried to contact Cointerra, but hadn't succeeded yet.

The IPO signed by Leszek, I would doubt he will be launching campaign that is that easy to uncover.

I lolled.

I heh'd.

I think you misunderstood how PicoStocks works: it is a proxy/passthrough of sorts:

It it is a company which buys shares privately (so CoinTerra itself remains a privately owned company), and then sells virtual shares via its platform. They receive dividends as if they were real shares (well, minus fees), but they exist only within PicoStocks accounting system, and you don't become a shareholder if you own these virtual shares.

So you shouldn't be asking whether CoinTerra does an IPO, you should ask them whether they plan to sell shares to PicoStocks.

This construction is well established outside of Bitcoin world. For example, an investment bank (probably, Goldman Sachs) created a fund which allowed people "to buy Facebook shares" when Facebook was still private.

It might be a scam, but you're using wrong terminology.

open
cointerra开盘了
https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/31
开盘价好夸张

Did anyone capture the business plan? I would love to take a look. Please post.

Heh..


https://picostocks.com/files/31/cointerra.pdf

lol.

are u fabrizio tatti from labcoin?

How well do you know the law? Picostocks is not selling any shares, they are just a passthrough for dividend profits and they are not operating in the US. Do you think tytus has not considered the legal aspect of this passthrough?

That "not operating in the US" argument has been debunked so often now... is picostocks available to US investors? If yes, then they are operating in the US.

And you are going to have a bloody hard time explaining this is not somehow pledging shares. Picostocks lists them as "cointerra" shares, not some unnamed passthrough for dividends only, which wouldnt be any more legal btw and begs the question what you are actually buying. Eg, what happens when someone buys cointerra? Do your picostocks "PT" become worthless? Or do they represent actual company shares?

Hope the issuer could clear this out. I don't really know about the legality of this. On their site they claim that they are operating legally in Marshall Islands.

There is no doubt its illegal in the US (and EU, china, japan,. well pretty much anywhere really) to sell unregistered securities and there is no doubt that is what picostocks is doing. There is a reason GLBSE closed, BTCT closed, Bitfunder recently blocked US investors for a start (no reason to assume EU investors wont be next) etc.

Yes, yes there is. The reason is that unqualified people who (mostly) mean well imagine they're going to "help" by doing what they're incapable of doing, and then when it inevitably falls through people act as though it's The Evil Mysterious Third Party that's responsible.

Want to know where it'll happen next? Look to those "exchanges" operated by the poorly qualified, with poor security and poor planning.

Want to know where it won't? Look to the exchange that's actually competent (http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php), and which has long had answers (http://trilema.com/2012/the-reasons-why-bitcoin-securities-cant-be-regulated-by-the-sec/) to these issues.

Today this document contains a Cointerra picture and a message: "This document is outdated and has been removed".

haha, priceless.

so are cointerra listed at picostock real?

Supposedly its a passthrough by the operator who seems to be a cointerra investor, although Im not sure the latter has been confirmed by CT; all you have to back that claim is the scan of that lawyer's letter.
My guess is that its legit in that sense, but I dont have much faith in Leszek; ignoring the fact the exchange itself is a violation of security laws pretty much everywhere, ignoring that the very proof of ownership of the shares state that those shares can not be resold or pledged, all the assets on his exchange seem at least dubious.

This is how picostocks works in general.


It is confirmed by Cointerra bitcointalk account: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267552.msg3388757#msg3388757


Company is registered on Marshall Islands.


Are you familiar with a concept of exchange-traded funds, hedge funds and so on? It isn't very different from what Picostocks is offering:

Fund owns shares, and people buy units of fund itself. Then there are CFDs...

All in all, passthroughs are a very common construct in financial industry.

Not this again. Puhleeeze.

Guess what: I can buy on pico stocks, and I dont live on the Marshall Islands. And my guess is neither do you nor more than 0.1% of all investors. So whats legal there is irrelevant, since picostocks through the internet is operating in and targeting US markets, EU markets, Japanese markets and everywhere where running an unlicensed exchange or selling unregistered securities to unsophisticated investors is illegal.

Suppose I live in a country where marijuana is illegal. Suppose I travel to a country where it is legal and consume some there.

Now do you think that authorities of the country I am in can jail a guy who sold me marijuana?

I can give you an example from fintech industry: companies like OKPAY and Payoneer  offer offshore bank debit cards to residents of foreign countries, to make withdrawals easier. (You know, withdrawing funds via ATM is easier than bank wire.)

I know that it is 100% illegal in some countries, and Payoneer definitely knows about that, but still offers this service. Can you guess why? They simply do not give a fuck about laws in foreign countries.

Things like that might not work with United States as it has a lot of influence all around the world. But exerting that influence is neither easy nor automatic, so they won't do that to fry small fish.

I know what happened to Megaupload, but it managed to piss off RIAA/MPAA/etc, so there was a big profit motive. (Which doesn't exist in case with unregistered securities.) And also Megaupload was sort of violating NZ law as all countries protect copyright.

Of course, I cannot guarantee that nothing bad will happen with Picostocks, but I'm just no too worried.

Sorry Ive discussed this too often. Feel free to search my post history if you want to know why it is beyond a shadow of a doubt illegal.
BTW, you shouldnt worry, buying of unregistered securities isnt illegal anywhere afaik. Its selling and soliciting IPO funds and offering broker/dealer services.

I'm not interested in going though you comment history, can you just answer one simple question:

If it is illegal in United States, what can United States do about it?

This answer can be just one sentence.

Let me answer that by another question: if you get a cease and desist letter from the SEC, will you just ignore it? Also if you live in close ally Poland like the exchange operator? If so, you must be braver than most. Besides, its just as illegal in Poland.

BTW, I guess this really answers your question:

http://www.sec.gov/about/offices/oia/oia_crossborder.shtml#secintlcases

MASSIVE sell off just now. People learning the truth.

0.5BTC has been sold in the last 24hr, that is MASSIVE sell off to you? Also are you the same kleeck who was the first to scream scam on reddit because of some random Cointerra support message saying they are not selling stock? ::) What is your agenda here? Anything to do with your investments in Activemining (and Labcoin)?

No one have written it here yet, so: http://cointerra.com/cointerra-open-silicon-announce-tape-goldstrike1-asic/ (http://cointerra.com/cointerra-open-silicon-announce-tape-goldstrike1-asic/)

There are people interested in buying Cointerra Terraminer December/January pre-orders from customers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334606.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334606.0)
They apparently believe Cointerra will deliver.

A downside of the picostocks coint stock is that the underlying shares are in dollars.

I don't know why "scam" was put into the title of the thread. No one made a research?
Look here: https://picostocks.com/files/31/cointerra.pdf (https://picostocks.com/files/31/cointerra.pdf)

The shares are not public, they were bought by Picostcks privately and the stock here is a passthrough to them.
(Yet I agree with what Vexual wrote.)

You can't have a passthrough of a share that you are not allowed to onsell, by doing this they may lose their entitlement to any shares.

Please note that THE SHARES REPRESENTED HAVE NOT BEEN
REGISTERED UNDER THE SECURITIES ACT OF 1933, AS AMENDED, AND MAY NOT
BE SOLD, TRANSFERRED, ASSIGNED, PLEDGED OR HYPOTHECATED UNLESS AND
UNTIL REGISTERED UNDER SUCH ACT AND/OR APPLICABLE STATE SECURITIES
LAWS.

Why would they have been "SOLD, TRANSFERRED, ASSIGNED, PLEDGED OR HYPOTHECATED"??
Picostocks keeps them as their rightful owner and when it gets the dividends, it will pay them out to its own "coint" shareholders.

This thread (with pictures) maybe of interest for coint shareholders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359084.0;all (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359084.0;all)

(I'm not and never been a shareholder of coint. I just watch it.)