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Title: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Longmarch on July 25, 2011, 05:40:02 PM Check out this bologna:
Quote We're writing to let you know about a change to your PayPal account. Starting 7/24/2011, money from payments you receive will be placed in a pending balance for up to 21 days. By doing this, we're making sure that there's enough money in your account to cover potential refunds or claims. Even though you can't access the money right away, please ship orders quickly and communicate with your customers. After 21 days, you can withdraw money from each payment as long as the customer hasn't filed a dispute, chargeback, claim, return, or reversal. The money may be available sooner if: 1. We can confirm that the item was delivered. 2. Your buyer leaves positive feedback. (Applies only to eBay items) This change isn't necessarily permanent. We'll review your account every 35 days and re-evaluate if we should continue to hold your payments. If we decide to stop holding payments, we'll email you to let you know. Why are my payments being held? We reviewed your account and determined that there's a relatively higher than average risk of future transaction issues (such as claims, or chargebacks, or payment reversals). We understand that it may be inconvenient to have your payments temporarily held but please know that we didn't make this decision lightly. Before deciding to hold payments, we consider many factors. These factors include account and transaction activity, the rate of customer disputes, the type of business a seller runs, average delivery timeframes, customer satisfaction, performance and history. 21 day hold = paypal is useless to me I haven't sold anything on ebay in months. I suspect that this is related to a couple of bitcoin transactions I've made. Though I haven't sold bitcoins, so the question of chargebacks is arguable. I wonder if they're just going through their records and crippling everyone who's got any involvement with the BTC? Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: giantdragon on July 25, 2011, 05:45:00 PM 21 days is enormous long, for many businesses it is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: spruce on July 25, 2011, 05:46:03 PM They did the same thing to me recently and I have more then 300+ feedback on eBay and all are postive. Any mention of bitcoins in your auctions? Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: ctoon6 on July 25, 2011, 05:47:34 PM WELCOME, in the new world of bitcoin, a business who thinks they own the world is not able to arbitrarily hold your money for ANY reason, even if they have government ordinances from the highest authority.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: supersonic3974 on July 25, 2011, 05:54:10 PM What item were you supposed to deliver?
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: spruce on July 25, 2011, 05:55:26 PM WELCOME, in the new world of bitcoin, a business who thinks they own the world is not able to arbitrarily hold your money for ANY reason, even if they have government ordinances from the highest authority. But you do sometimes have to worry about the government ordnance that can be brought to bear. If they don't want you around, legality or illegality isn't always a major factor. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: enmaku on July 25, 2011, 05:57:31 PM WELCOME, in the new world of bitcoin, a business who thinks they own the world is not able to arbitrarily hold your money for ANY reason, even if they have government ordinances from the highest authority. Exactly. We should publicize this heavily as a prime example of why bitcoin > paypal. Arguments like "bitcoin > USD" are tough to argue and require that the audience either know or be taught on-the-spot some basic economic concepts, but showing it to be a better digital payment method than paypal requires none of that and we now have at least one definitive example that doesn't require citing the politically-charged WikiLeaks case. Congratulations LongMarch, your story just became my new biggest talking point. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: spruce on July 25, 2011, 05:58:21 PM They did the same thing to me recently and I have more then 300+ feedback on eBay and all are postive. Any mention of bitcoins in your auctions? I've never sold bitcoins on eBay or through PayPal. Thank you. Googling it shows it is a new policy that is quite widespread. See http://www.markjohnsonblog.com/2011/07/17/paypal-payment-holds-policy-begins/ for instance. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Smalleyster on July 25, 2011, 06:02:55 PM http://paypalsucks.com/
read it and weep Go bitcoin! Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: enmaku on July 25, 2011, 06:03:42 PM From the article Spruce linked:
Quote Though we can’t include every reason your account may have been affected here, here are some common reasons:
So basically... We hold your cash if we feel like it. >:( Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Longmarch on July 25, 2011, 06:08:53 PM Thank you. Googling it shows it is a new policy that is quite widespread. See http://www.markjohnsonblog.com/2011/07/17/paypal-payment-holds-policy-begins/ for instance. Quote You may have received an email or notice when you logged in to your PayPal account about the new PayPal Hold Policy that is affecting ALL customers regardless of their status or past history. Well good. If they're doing this to everyone then maybe they've seriously wounded themselves. I mean honestly, the only reason anyone uses paypal in the first place is that everyone uses it. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Jaime Frontero on July 25, 2011, 06:17:49 PM "ALWAYS FREE! We make our money on the float."
maggots. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: bitrebel on July 25, 2011, 06:27:12 PM I fear this will be the end of paypal.
Wait a minute. I fear not. ;D Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: cypherdoc on July 25, 2011, 06:32:51 PM wow, that is sad.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: bitrebel on July 25, 2011, 06:39:37 PM wow, that is sad. Yeah, but expected, right? What do you expect from a company that is intimately tied to the US dollar and controlled by central banking systems. It was totally expected by me. I have great ebay feedback and never sold or bought with bitcoins PRECISELY BECAUSE OF THIS. Ebay and Paypal and the Kings servants. Like Goldman Sachs. Fuck Paypal. Lets just pour salt on their wounds while we take over the system ourselves. We can do anything now that we have bitcoins. We'll take the knife and slay the beast and drink from the blood while we confuse it with wine in celebration. ;) Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: enmaku on July 25, 2011, 06:42:05 PM We'll take the knife and slay the beast and drink from the blood while we confuse it with wine in celebration. And in the master's chambers, they gathered for the feast... Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: bitrebel on July 25, 2011, 06:58:55 PM We'll take the knife and slay the beast and drink from the blood while we confuse it with wine in celebration. And in the master's chambers, they gathered for the feast... They gathered with their bitcoin knives and finally killed the beast. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Oldminer on July 25, 2011, 06:59:59 PM haha paypal..
Shitty service IMO Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: enmaku on July 25, 2011, 07:03:03 PM We'll take the knife and slay the beast and drink from the blood while we confuse it with wine in celebration. And in the master's chambers, they gathered for the feast... They gathered with their bitcoin knives and finally killed the beast. Last thing I remember, I was logging off of TOR... I had to find a way to live with the cash I'd trusted before... Relax, said Satoshi, they're all built to deceive. You can log off any time you like, but you'll no longer believe! *plays awesome solo* Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: BusmasterDMA on July 25, 2011, 07:07:53 PM Perhaps we should email paypalsucks.com to request Bitcoin be listed as an alternative. Currently that is linking to a CC processing service.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Smalleyster on July 25, 2011, 07:24:59 PM Perhaps we should email paypalsucks.com to request Bitcoin be listed as an alternative. Currently that is linking to a CC processing service. Interesting idea, but I think we need *far* superior merchant tools than we have available yet. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: ctoon6 on July 25, 2011, 07:26:44 PM http://bitcoinjs.org/ is a good open source project to look into if you want merchant tools. it also looks nice and clean, UI wise.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: cypherdoc on July 25, 2011, 07:31:48 PM its interesting how Paypal is allowing RSantana's CoinedBits.com to flourish.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Smalleyster on July 25, 2011, 07:35:04 PM http://bitcoinjs.org/ is a good open source project to look into if you want merchant tools. it also looks nice and clean, UI wise. Ok...hmmm...I still don't see how a merchant gets usd in his bank easily and immediatly. 1) customer wants to buy 2) merchant sends quote 3) customer pays 4) merchant confirms *that* customer pays appropriate ammount 5) merchant delivers goods confident that usd will appear in his bank by the next morning Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: airdata on July 25, 2011, 07:52:23 PM sounds like this is a case by case basis... I'd be pissed if i got this email. I generally withdraw within a week or so of receiving funds. No need to let paypal earn interest on my money.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Meatpile on July 25, 2011, 09:23:18 PM So Longmarch what actually happened to trigger this? Did you have some kind of un-resolvable dispute with a customer or what?
Clearly something bitcoin related happened... or you wouldn't be posting it here would you? Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Littleshop on July 25, 2011, 09:50:54 PM They did the same thing to me recently and I have more then 300+ feedback on eBay and all are postive. Me too. 600+ feedback 99%+ I have never had to have one of my transactions reversed or anything so they have no reason whatsoever to be cautious with my account transactions. I honestly think they are just doing it to play with my money for awhile to make some extra $ The worst part is that they hold ALL of your payments, so if you are selling something that will cost a good amount for shipping, you have to pay out of your own pocket instead of using the money you actually made from selling it until they release their stupid holds. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Exonumia on July 26, 2011, 03:28:24 AM Every... EVERY one of my PayPal accounts has gone through this process... it's automated at a certain dollar level. I had several small auctions never trigger it... but as soon as I sold an item > $300 it would then get the 21day hold flag. Mine have always cleared before the 21 day period passes, usually when the the package I have sold arrives, or at the latest when the ebay buyer submits positive feedback. They are just protecting themselves, and the buyers... if your account isn't tied to an ebay auction account I would be prepared to wait the 21 days... I am not sure of any way to get buyer feedback to them outside of the ebay system. Hang in there. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Bitcoin Swami on July 26, 2011, 05:34:40 AM I'm surprised you can have a domain called paypal sucks without being sued. I had a domain with paypal in the name, it was going to be an exchange between paypal and epassporte, it was called paypal2epassporte.com (i think that was it). I never did do anything with it, basically because epassporte was having problems. A few months back I got an email from paypal telling me not to use it for anything. I just ignored the emails, eventually the emails got more and more threatening. The last one said a lawyer would be getting in touch with me. I finially emailed them back and said I wasn't gonna do anything with it and i was just gonna let it expire, then they said ok this situation is resolved.
Crazy stuff. haha Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: bitrebel on July 26, 2011, 05:39:30 AM I'm surprised you can have a domain called paypal sucks without being sued. I had a domain with paypal in the name, it was going to be an exchange between paypal and epassporte, it was called paypal2epassporte.com (i think that was it). I never did do anything with it, basically because epassporte was having problems. A few months back I got an email from paypal telling me not to use it for anything. I just ignored the emails, eventually the emails got more and more threatening. The last one said a lawyer would be getting in touch with me. I finially emailed them back and said I wasn't gonna do anything with it and i was just gonna let it expire, then they said ok this situation is resolved. Crazy stuff. haha Write them back and tell them you changed your mind. hehe Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: dlight on July 26, 2011, 10:51:38 AM All this gatekeeper mentality is exactly what Bitcoin is good for.
Now we need Bitcoin equivalents to Facebook(is it even possible? anonymous social networking?) and Apple/Itunes. Its been far too long we're subject to their whims and fancies. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: imanikin on July 26, 2011, 11:58:59 AM As soon as all my latest receipts cleared to my bank, i finally closed my PayPal account! No explanations or responses to their surveys! It's time to move on! 8) There was no sure way they cold have connected me to Bitcoin involvement. If you are for "free markets," don't be PayPal's b*tchboys! Vote with your feet and money against the entities that try to put the screws to you out of simple, unlimited greed! ;) Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: piramida on July 26, 2011, 05:17:33 PM A few months back I got an email from paypal telling me not to use it for anything. I just ignored the emails, eventually the emails got more and more threatening. The last one said a lawyer would be getting in touch with me. I finially emailed them back and said I wasn't gonna do anything with it and i was just gonna let it expire, then they said ok this situation is resolved. You gave up too soon. Learn how to deal with legal threats here: http://thepiratebay.org/legal And in that particular case, you would be completely in your own right to run that business, just don't tie it to US-registered entity. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: error on July 26, 2011, 06:29:20 PM They did this to me last year or so. It was highly inconvenient to say the least. But they stopped after a few successful transactions.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Longmarch on July 26, 2011, 09:31:58 PM So Longmarch what actually happened to trigger this? Did you have some kind of un-resolvable dispute with a customer or what? Clearly something bitcoin related happened... or you wouldn't be posting it here would you? No, I'm guessing it's bitcoin related. I don't know anything for sure. My account's been pretty idle lately. Maybe that's what triggered it. My record with paypal/ebay is pristine except for the chick who bought a baseball card from me and got cranky because I used delivery confirmation. That was 2 years ago. But it all comes down to this: I never wanted to use paypal in the first place. Or ebay for that matter. But I gotta display my wares in a high-traffic area or they won't sell. At this point though, it looks like I'm going to have to shell out for server time and set up my own shop with every payment option available except paypal. Paypal/ebay were only ever successful because they got to the market first. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: MilkMan on July 26, 2011, 11:58:44 PM Check out this bologna: Quote We're writing to let you know about a change to your PayPal account. Starting 7/24/2011, money from payments you receive will be placed in a pending balance for up to 21 days. By doing this, we're making sure that there's enough money in your account to cover potential refunds or claims. Even though you can't access the money right away, please ship orders quickly and communicate with your customers. After 21 days, you can withdraw money from each payment as long as the customer hasn't filed a dispute, chargeback, claim, return, or reversal. The money may be available sooner if: 1. We can confirm that the item was delivered. 2. Your buyer leaves positive feedback. (Applies only to eBay items) This change isn't necessarily permanent. We'll review your account every 35 days and re-evaluate if we should continue to hold your payments. If we decide to stop holding payments, we'll email you to let you know. Why are my payments being held? We reviewed your account and determined that there's a relatively higher than average risk of future transaction issues (such as claims, or chargebacks, or payment reversals). We understand that it may be inconvenient to have your payments temporarily held but please know that we didn't make this decision lightly. Before deciding to hold payments, we consider many factors. These factors include account and transaction activity, the rate of customer disputes, the type of business a seller runs, average delivery timeframes, customer satisfaction, performance and history. 21 day hold = paypal is useless to me I haven't sold anything on ebay in months. I suspect that this is related to a couple of bitcoin transactions I've made. Though I haven't sold bitcoins, so the question of chargebacks is arguable. I wonder if they're just going through their records and crippling everyone who's got any involvement with the BTC? Hey PayPal has been giving me a lot of guff lately too. They threatened to close my account and will not accept MoneyPacks. I understand they don't want fraudulent activity going on on their site, but some help full customer service would be nice. PayPal pretty much does whatever they want too. Stay away from PayPal if possible. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: GeniuSxBoY on July 27, 2011, 03:41:35 AM Are you a verified user?
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: MilkMan on July 27, 2011, 04:01:30 AM LOL I've been a verified users for 6 years
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: sergio on July 31, 2011, 12:49:14 PM ebay and paypal are not the only ones attacking bitcoin.
I was selling a bitcoin using webstore, and accepting only money order or dwolla (dwolla at the time was claiming no charge backs) so that I would not get scammed. guess what. My new account at webstore was eliminated without any word from them, I opened a support ticket and they never replied why the account was shutdown, I have never bought or sold anything with them, a single bitcoin action got my account with them closed which is fine, since I was testing them for bitcoin friendlyness without the risk of being burned. On ebay there are a few scammers, most buyers are honest persons, but the scammers even though they are few, they change id and on a normal basis continue to scam sellers, and with the help of ebay they clean their rotten feedback, since if the comment has the word scammer, ebay will clean the feedback for them, ebay by faking the feedbacks is going to screw themselves, since no one will believe in their feedback system. Lesson to be learned, do not rely on ebay feedback it is useless, do not sell bitcoin with payment processors that have charge backs. The bitcoin is actually pretty good for testing new action sites, try to sell a bitcoin and see how they react, it avoids a lot of problems in the long run to know how are the sites you are dealing with. We should create a list of sites that are pro and against bitcoins. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: spruce on July 31, 2011, 02:33:50 PM If someone does list companies on a website, do show the date that some action for or against bitcoin occurs. It could well happen that a site will change its policy as bitcoin becomes more popular.
Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: Nicolai Larsen on August 02, 2011, 12:56:59 PM How does people feel about MoneyBookers?
I don't think I have ever seen it mentioned here before.. Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: JCbit on August 06, 2011, 10:09:01 AM How does people feel about MoneyBookers? I don't think I have ever seen it mentioned here before.. I've moved thousands of dollars via moneybookers. They are fast, courteous and professional. worth every penny. As for paypal i agree with OP. They of course are trying to bring down any online wallet service that threatens them. Greedy people, like there isnt enough money to share ::) Title: Re: Paypal is a b*tch. Post by: BCwinning on August 12, 2011, 06:00:26 PM with the new regulatory bullshit going on with paypal, I'm done with them myself. I haven't agreed to their latest changes and once I finish up a few things I need to take care of I will be done with them forever I hope. I'm pretty much done with ebay too. I attempted to post some paint on there for a local sale and they would not allow cash, only paypal. I mean wtf would I take paypal for a local sale?
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