Bitcoin Forum

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

Spot on and I don't think that will ever change, it's why I see bitcoin as becoming more in line with gold that is spendable. It won't be used as a daily currency but more for one off purchases etc. Unless the price was relatively stable this will always be the case.

Im a hodler of spendable crypto, Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero but I actually cannot easily spend them on goods I want.
I might be corrected now after this post but I am looking to buy a used camera and I actually dont mind spending some crypto for it.
My dilemma is where can I get my camera in exchange for crypto?

thats the problem there are not enough retailers accepting crypto and i do agree that hodling is not what Satoshi meant for bitcoin
it has become a speculative tool because of the volatility of the markets.

You are right holding is the reason for the bitcoin can't be used as a currency but it is the thing which increases the demand for it so more and more people want to buy bitcoin,but still we can't spend bitcoin directly we need to convert them into fiat if we need to buy anything with that so it takes time to use crypto as direct form until that holding the bitcoin can help the holders to earn some money.

yes mate,though i think this is not what satoshis plan,than this great coin will stay longer in wallets or storages than in market circulation,but we can't change the fact that this is what happening,and even OP if he will only be real and not hypocrite he will choose to hold bitcon than to sell it,and besides i see no wrong about this and i find this as reason why market goes high and low,

The point is ideally if everyone holds his bitcoins that means there will be stability of a price after all,no one will be buying and be selling at that point and price drops wont occur.Unfortunately,this can't always be the case as everyone us a free individual with his own mindset and thoughts and also has a target price to sell at.So yes,we cant all always hodl at any one point.

Yes, many people invested in bitcoin for various reasons, someone to save value, someone to make a profit. But the fact that people are holding bitcoin in the situation that is happening at the moment is nothing wrong. How do you act?

Agreed, HODL mentality might destroy the currency aspect of bitcoin and yes people nowadays look bitcoin as a mode of gambling or investment but their point of view towards it is also not completely wrong. Maybe a solution for making bitcoin be used as a currency would be that huge companies be it a smartphone, gaming company, online shopping sites or other product seller start accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment for a limited amount of their stocks, for example, say 10% of their stock will be sold only accepting bitcoin or another crypto as a mode of payment. This will encourage people to use their cryptocurrencies as a mode of payment i.e currency and also increase the community by introducing known huge companies in the crypto world!

It may look a bit counterintuitive and likely it is but retailers and merchants are not accepting crypto because there is not sufficient demand for such payments. Yes, you and a few other people would love to pay with their coins, but this is nowhere near enough. We need mass demand for crytpopayments to push cryptocurrencies toward mass adoption in the real sector. Merchants are not fools, and if they see crowds of people wanting to pay with crypto, they will start to accept it. If they don't, someone else will.

A lot of people seem mistaken on this and think the retailers are doing it because they're anti-cryptocurrency, these companies aren't anti anything as long as it's profitable for them, everything is a business decision. It's going to take years of stability until people begin to spend bitcoin in place of FIAT, right now given the historical uptrend everything you buy becomes much more expensive a year down the road.

Well you are not wrong at all I believe.  :D

Holding got introduced few years later when the bitcoin was pumping hard and people thought about it as opportunity to lots of money via it. They started acting upon it as if the bitcoin is commodity in which they are investing their money and it can grow later on. This continues today also and it is on far greater scale than the previous one. This has led to locked out fund in the market cap and thus money is not moving here and there at all. You are right about the currency thing, if it has to be currency then it has to be moving all the time and be liquid asset like the fiats that we have around us.

I guess not. Holding your Bitcoin or other crypto currency is a best way for them to earn in their investment. It would be dumb if you invest on something and you will not gain from it. If fell like selling your bitcoins at a lower price then go ahead and lead the pack. Just don't regret it in the future.

Absolutely agree with OP's statement, I believe that movement is growth and hence I try to spend my 50% of Bitcoins and I hold rest of the coins. However as we don't have that kind of market environment where we can use our Bitcoins directly to pay the bills of goods and services so I have to rely on online services in most of the cases. We must understand the fact that Bitcoin is valuable today just because early adopters didn't hold their coins and they spent it as a currency and that's what Bitcoin is all about the core principle states that Bitcoin is a payment system and we should treat it in that way.

You might find this an interesting read.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-16/bitcoin-bubble-or-hyperdeflation

It's a report about a research paper by Incrementum, an independent investment and asset management company.

The key point is they highlight 3 outcomes:

1.) Bitcoin Becomes A Store of Value
2.) Bitcoin Becomes A Store of Value and a Medium of Exchange
3.) Bitcoin Becomes Neither and Collapses

What you are observing is that at the moment Bitcoin is mainly a store of value (digital gold) and used a little as a medium of exchange (currency). It is very early to say where it will end up but I'd back scenario 2 in the long run.

That is right . This way the essence of bitcoin and the reason why it was inceptioned is fading everybody . Everyone aims too hold it until it gets a good price and then sell it for a good amount of money . The major reason behind it is that most of the people don't have the other option of holding it and using it in place of money . Then why would they hold it if it is of no use ? Fiat and other legal factors won't let bitcoin fulfill the reason of its establishment .

Bitcoin currency holding is beneficial and it is not causing any disadvantage to the holders if the user follow the holding strategy then this mentality is depend upon him and this is not the fault of the person this behavior change over time and the people are loving this currency because now those who have purchased bitcoin at $15000 they are not willing to sale these at the present time then the holding in this time is good and the users are happy with this instead of panic sale or cash out.

The article is actually stating the truth. Bitcoin is not what it was meant to be by the original vision. The current fluctuations are currently only profit opportunity and the stable Bitcoin is far away.
I don't know if we will ever see the Bitcoin becoming the stable currency used by all. For that to happen value must jump even more but the current progress on the market isn't promising.
Holding is actually recommended but for the Bitcoin core, it is actually destroying it for a long term.

One reason I see is because merchants also don't want to receive payment in bitcoins, either, so this is some kind of a stalemate from the consumers and producers since neither doesn't want to make the first move. True that the currency aspect of bitcoin is trailing behind its speculative nature, but if there were more merchants willing to accept this currency--not just confined into online stores but brick and mortar stores included--then there is a possibility that this would be used widely by people who have them and looking for alternatives that are cheap and convenient at the same time.

Myself, I can't possibly accept this view, to wit, that Bitcoin is a store of value. If you bought the coins at 19k and right now you keep them at half that price, it is anything but a store of value. You are a bag holder by any appropriate definition, and someone who tries to persuade you to the contrary is either delusional or a hypocrite of the highest caliber. Comparing Bitcoin to gold is actually a disgrace to gold.

There was a time when there were advertisements on /r/bitcoin and people used to consider Bitcoin as "Magic Internet Money". There were discussions on Bitcoin transaction fees vs that of Western Unions, people performing micro transactions and tipping each other (Changetip) and discussions on how remittances and sending Bitcoins via SMS would be possible. All of these changed when the price of Bitcoin started rising sharply and countries Governing bodies started classifying Bitcoins as cryptoassets or some form of "stock" or "Derivative" to trade as. This switch in thinking and rise in price (sometime in 2016-2017) lead people to "HODL" through it and it's a common technique used for a "Get Rich Quick" cycle. I think the current dip is price is an excellent price correction and I feel when there's more stability in price, there's lower transaction fees and less panic transactions happen. This should allow people to transaction more and I believe as long as the price of Bitcoin comes into factor (with a possibility of a rise) there's always the possibility that people will save rather than spend.

Many holders use bitcoin as an investment like shares. If the shares give dividends and increase in value then investors will keep them. If they drop they may hold for recovery. Same with bitcoin,although there are no dividends.

You would have to be in a very small minority of Bitcoin holders to be in a negative position right now. The term store of value doesn't refer to short time swings it refers to long-term investment, ie. over several years.


You might want to check out some of the falls in gold value on short time frames. Also you might actually want to read the article I linked to and look at the charts comparing it to gold.

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/2018-03-16_10-32-25.jpg
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/2018-03-16_10-32-25.jpg


https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/2018-03-16_13-15-34.jpg
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/2018-03-16_13-15-34.jpg

Above all of your point of view, may I know if majority of bitcoin users really HODLing their coins? If you will only based on the statement or discussions here in the community or whenever you see some on social media then I don't see any sense here. As if those HODL coins by an average player scan make an impact on the whole bitcoin volume on the whole as they hold.  If HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of bitcoin then why it isn't happening now or before? Make sense.

There are countries who already legalized bitcoin as currency meaning the usage of bitcoin as currency is really on demand. You just didn't know the real stats but there are lots of bitcoin users who uses bitcoin not just for investment purposes but also to act as their main salary that will support their daily expenses.

I suggest to just go with the flow.

Dividends are just a small part which you get it. Also it is not compulsory that each company will declare the dividend. Only if they have reserves and want to give they can do it and it is not a obligation on company. Well bitcoin is totally different and when it rises it can make you rich overnight as it can rise multiple times in couple of months only as seen in 2017.

Ok, I see what you're getting at, but take a different approach for a second. My coins are my investment, i have enough fiat to live by and knowing that it depreciates in value the obvious choice would be to spend it, not BTC. Looking at the big picture, my coins from 2014 have increased in value about 15 times (current price not ATH), so it gives me about 500% a year. Why would I get rid of something like that? Maybe if I had no fiat and was living in a 100% crypto economy...

How exactly do you think bitcoin is bought if it's not earned. They are interrelated. And as for the currency factor of bitcoin, when people say they hodl, they don't hold it for 1 year or more than that. They do sell. They cash out. They buy back their investments. Hodl actually makes people more of a hypocrite than they already were. They say they hodl, they say they do shit but all they do is avoid losses. Bitcoin is being used very well as a currency, you'll get around how exactly as time flies.

Bitcoins price would never ever be stable which means we would really able to stay on the range on where bitcoin can really be compared and treated just much as gold.You can stop those people who do hold for the sake of profits for long term since they do know the capacity and capability of bitcoin when it comes to rising prices where they dont even think on that coins should circulate for it to progress even more.

Gold is a speculative tool as much as it is a long term store of value tool, and that while it's actually a currency, but it barely enjoys any usage as such. It didn't harm its market at all, but enhanced it to the fullest extent. I think it's pretty safe to say that Bitcoin will follow this pattern in the coming years, because let's be honest, it has far more similarities with gold than actual fiat. I don't know how lightning network will change people's stance on the currency aspect, because being able to instantly move value from one place to another, and that at ultra low cost, is definitely a motivator to at least transact more. Obviously, time will tell, but I definitely believe it will give people more incentive to become more active in spending/transacting....

I think he means that the speculative mentality is destroying the currency aspect of Bitcoin: The fact that most of the people are buying Bitcoins only to sell them later.
Sadly, that does destroy the main purpose of Bitcoin and other CryptoCURRENCIES.

You say Bitcoin is being used very well as a currency, but that is just plain old nonsense.
Let me ask you this:
What do most people use currencies, like USD, EUR, etc... for? They buy things with it.
What do most people use Cryptocurrencies, like BTC, XRP, etc.. for? They buy it to make more money through selling it later.

See the difference?
Bitcoin isn't used very well as a currency. Not even close.

For me holding bitcoin does not destroy its being a currency, still people know what's the use of it, it was just that bitcoin is more than a currency which makes it a special one, it appreciative feature makes is more popular that's why many consider it as an asset. If bitcoin value is not fluctuating, I think it will be just a normal currency and will not gain the popularity it gets right now.

Yes, because bitcoin is not just a means of currency. Bitcoin can be also a means of asset, storage of value and so on. The mentality of holding is just to prevent people from getting lost. And its up to the person who holds the bitcoin to spend it.

The point is that many are betting on future growth, so they retain what they have.
And the others - those who bought in December - hope they can  recover - sooner or later - the losses ....

Rightly said, HODL has destroyed the real purpose of Bitcoin. BTC originally invented as the alternative payment source not as a Financial saving instrument. Rising Price of BTC made people forget the concept behind it and start buying and HODL it to earn huge profit.

This is so sad, in addition so many people used centralized exchange or service to transact with bitcoin which against the concept of the bitcoin. People nowadays prefer to HODL their coins rather than spending them, they will buy as much as they can then HODL waiting for the right moment and then sell it as soon as possible and the cycle will repeat, we can't force them to spend those coins since they have ultimate control over the money.

That's a good point. If you buy something at 19k and it drops to 8k, it has retained less than half its value and isn't "storing" the value very well. This is true for fiat currency as well however. Gold does share a great deal with Bitcoin. They must both be mined and the supply of both is dependent upon the investment in energy to mine it, which requires that there be sufficient reward for doing so. Consequently, the supply for both is fairly gradual over time. But gold is very mature and there aren't media frenzies over it like there are over Bitcoin.

That's what I've been saying for quite some time now ;D That's why I think that BTC will, most likely, abandon the whole crypto-currency idea and just become an investment asset. While some alt-coins will replace it as currency in various means of spending.

I used to think that holding bitcoin was a way to destroy its value. However, people do not think the same as me. They keep buying bitcoin and holding bitcoin as if it is gold. They believe that holding bitcoin can bring them a large profit in the future. Well, actually, it is not a bad idea. Bitcoin is becoming slowly and slowly day by day and it has no usage at all in the real world. People can not use bitcoin to make transaction anymore because it consume a big fee and take so much time to proceed

I agree with this. Bitcoin needs to be used more often to be considered a currency. It's similar to gold when you think of it as a currency, but it's significantly more versatile than gold is. People have been using it to actually buy things, unlike gold more recently. However, I guess one benefit of "Hodling" is that bitcoin ends up being more like an asset. You can see it as a stock now, because there is supply and demand for it, and there are active exchanges that are willing to link those who want to sell with those who want to buy.

This  future growth, trigger people to hold their bitcoin. I am holding too because of this,because bitcoin is very promising. Once this regulations issues is addressed there a possibility to go up. Now, its stake on $8,000 range. When many are holding,  demand becomes limited and prices will go high.

exactly, well said conclusion. but please don't give up hope yet,
as we nearing (in 20 years? :D) the maximum number coins mined, we will see some definite direction
either the price will stabilized and turned bitcoin (crypto) as one of many common used digital currencies
or... bitcoin will be the next substitute of gold for use as hedging and/or commodity
or the worst... bitcoin will dies slowly :'(

That is the point of the OP, Bitcoin is made so people can have the financial freedom and not really relying on the banks and other third parties in terms of transacting. It is made to be a currency but it ended up an investment. If you are Satoshi Nakamoto, and made the first digital currency on the Blockchain, what will you feel that you made a currency that ended up being an investment material? You see, it goes in the other direction.

I am not saying that I am not the same but I do HODL since I also want to earn some but what the OP's saying is really true.

Agreed, however, there's not much you can do to change that. It will always be like that, in almost any cryptocurrency. I'm both a holder and a trader, I keep a small amount of BTC and LTC aside while I trade Bitcoin on a weekly basis. Moreover, as you've already said, almost no one actually spends their Crypto on products or services, since that does not make sense.

It's because of your an idiot and decide's to sell out your bitcoin because of panic or FUD you will lose money instead. That is the concept of profiting. We tell people to hodl they're money cause bitcoin will surely recover and thus will enable them to profit when the price gets higher. That's is why it is important to hodl to actually regain the that you've lose money from the dips.

I think we should accept the fact that we joined Bitcoin as investment to earn more fiat for our future spending not as a currencies to be use for everyday spending. Holding our coins is the right thing to do in order for the Bitcoin demand to increase, to become expensive and earn bigger profit in the future not to dump it thru spending it. These is why i don't believe that fiat can be replace by Bitcoin except if the value will ratio to 1BTC is equal to 1$.

I think yes because if you see the many people hold the bitcoin for many years and the value raise up to higher than $20,000 or more the currency possible will appreciate because they are hardwork and patient.

This is a very simplistic approach which almost never works in real life for long, let alone indefinitely. In a nutshell, holding the coins works until it doesn't, and we may have already hit the roadblock. The only way to earn profit in this fashion is to sell your coins to someone else at an extra price. You don't have to be an Einstein to understand that this process cannot keep on forever, and someone will necessarily be left standing as in musical chairs, holding the bag.

I would expect Einstein to be smart enough to know that there are different possible scenarios as to how this plays out. We don't know whether Bitcoin will become a sustainable long-term asset or not. That's why it is a high-risk investment with possible high returns or losses. To say that the value of an asset cannot continue to rise in dollar terms is simply not true and flies in the face of data.

Our OP's understanding of cryptocurrency is very limited. It's possible he lives in an area where there's no adoption and you actually can't do anything with your coins. It's only hold or sell for fiat. Thankfully it's much different in other parts of the world where you can buy recharge your phone, order food, buty gift cards, shop at amazon and many smaller online stores. Exchanging for fiat is for traders, the rest of you should avoid fiat at all cost and either hold BTC or spend it.

This would vary on case to case basis and as being mentioned usage of bitcoin would depend if the place do have a small range or big range of adoption.Its normal for us to use or spend bitcoin if we do saw that there are other options on how to use it instead on directly converting it.If theres no merchant or any services then the options would only be either hold or sell to fiat.

It is one of the biggest problems with bitcoins, it is not being used as a payment medium. Even the developers did not invented it to be used for investment purpose only.

Dont worry Mr. OP, not all people are holding their BTC. Just like me, I keep spending the half of my BTC payments I got from freelance design. BTC must circulate. I am using my BTC to pay my electricity, pay my bills, etc.

Well that is the case because of the current condition that bitcoin is in. With high transaction fees and long confirmation times, it’s going to be hard to adopt bitcoin as a currency. It may be possible for bitcoin to function as a currency in the future however it is better to hodl it now. People choose to just buy bitcoin and hodl it because they know that they will profit in the years to come.

Only 2 types of people hold forever, idiots and people that forgot they had bitcoins. You can certainly see thousands of posts saying ''HODL'' and ''bull run incoming'' however most of them eventually do sell. Holding like an idiot isn't going to magically make bitcoin useful. If people stop buying then it's never going to reach 20k again no matter how many people hold.

It's true, i'm also the type that will hold my bitcoin, and if the price go down, i'll keep and hold my coin instead.
Of course i'll do that, and everyone else as well. Because we bought the coins in higher price, why should we sell them and get loss if in the lower price?
I think most people here invest to gain profits, it's very understandable and logic. We can't blame if people don't want to sell their coin and make the market drop. And there are many people that can't spend or use bitcoin because there aren't any way to do so, so the only thing to make use of bitcoin is as investment.

If you have solid evidence that there is significant Bitcoin adoption among retailers and merchants who are accepting bitcoins while people actively spending a lot of bitcoins - or any other coins, for that matter - I'm all years, really. Obviously, the question is about genuine adoption, not pseudo-adoption when you seemingly pay with bitcoins but merchants still accept only fiat. Just provide reliable sources. You know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all that. And don't forget that in the end it all comes down to users actually spending crypto, not just someone officially accepting it. You simply don't buy bitcoins with fiat to spend them when you can spend fiat instead.

Yes, most of us user will choose to HODL bitcoin rather than spend it and use it as a currency to buy goods, etc. The reason why most of us do this is because we believe that it will rise and increase in more coming years. It's concept as a currency is not well used because of its volatility that makes it hard for users to let go of their precious satoshis and bitcoin. It is really hard to know when is the price going down or rise up to any level we don't expect, so people tend to just HODL it and wait for the right time they think is enough price to sell their bitcoins. With this concept, it looks like bitcoin is just a storage of fiat money which people converts to bitcoin and is converted back to fiat after earning big profit.

That's very true, initially when most people didn't know that the value of bitcoins would be able to rise as more and more people started investing into it, then they got to know that bitcoins would be able to rise and they started to develop the mentality to hold rather than use it to purchase goods and services.

I don't completely agree with you. Ok, you made a point here, but, to me, the point is btc is still "too young" in the market, for you can't buy or sell stuff by using it (yet). If we see something just like an investment or saving, we are not moving it, of course, so the price will not rise soon. In that, I agree. but I don't think the heart of the problem resides just on the "hodling situation", but on the alternative uses of bitcoin. As long as we become able to buy and sell, to access to common products of need by using crypto, it will be finally into the economy. But, for the moment, we need to wait 'till enterprises take the risk and btc actually becomes a payment system.
For now, this is just being used for trading or investing, and the hold problem is just a temporary result of the December's bubble, where many people bought bitcoin as an investment, and they just don't want to lose their money.
Now, the moment btc will be seen as a tool instead of an investment, well, it will change forever the game.

What can you do. People think of bitcoin as an investment. You can't change their minds and nor can I. People hate crypto currency, they think of it as a stock. Though not all people don't spend bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency for regular purchases, some make do.
Having said that, hodling is not going to help, and I say that instead of supposedly hodling, mobilize your crypto across the markets, the more liquid the markets get, better becomes our experience and people's stupid conspiracies and shit goes down for real.

It wasn't, Satoshi's plan was for it to be used as a currency in the day to day sense but we are so far from that being a reality right now. The blockchain technology is great for facilitating digital currencies that can do that but the decentralized nature contributes in large parts to the price swings. I can make many arguments against central banks but one thing they are good for is controlling money supply to limit inflation.

Well, your submission is not far from the truth and that is the only factor that will help grow the market value of bitcoin not doubt.

I think that only positive information movement around Bitcoin can increase the demand for this coin, and it is tantamount to increasing its price. Well, while the popularity of Bitcoin is below the level, When it was back in 2017.

Exactly, people tend to hold their coins when the price is very low and if there is a very high rise, they will sell it on a large scale and continue like that, and there more precisely people are crazy about it very much money.
for me it will not be used as a legitimate payment tool to buy my favorite items with bitcoin, more precisely to invest only, for the real world there is Fiat.

Currently, everyone wants to be paid in bitcoins only but does not to spend his bitcoins. This will never result in mass adoption.

It is hard to spend our bitcoin due to the high fee. No one wants to pay $20 fee for a $2 coffee. Bitcoin is good for us because it brings us new technology such as the blockchain. But it is hard to use bitcoin as a method of payment. Just like gold. YOu can not use it anywhere but you can still hold gold for a long term profit

I am not much bothered about it. Hardly anyone use Bitcoin as a currency now. For all practical purpose, it has become an investment asset. And in my opinion, it is not a bad thing at all.

Correct. Bitcoin wasn't made to be a payment system. It has many purposes and one of them is the store of value, much like gold. Why don't people ramble about gold not being used in stores. Almost everyone buy gold and hold it in a safe or a deposit box. Does this mentality destroy gold?
Sit and wait, maybe one day the currency aspect will mean something.

You are right.But we should also take in to consideration that the slower confirmation of transactions also caused bitcoin not to get used in the mainstream of payment.Now bitcoin has almost become as a main investment due to the ROI and chances for bitcoin to be spent has become very less in the future.

 I agree on what you  are saying,  we're always screaming that bitcoin  will  be  on the mainstream, mass adoption and others but we are not  doing  what satoshi wants in inventing this blockchain, to make it happen , a continuous using bitcoin  might open more establishment  to accept and will  surely  increase the demands which eventually the prlce will follow.

No. I do not see it in this light.
Hodling is a good thing for bitcoin in a way.
It distributes more to the ecosystem in a way and keeps it health.
Like getting rid of the rotten apples to keep the crop still viral and growing. ;D
In a sense. ;)

There’s no doubt that this is true and in reality i myself is spending bitcoin after holding it for a much higher price than how much it is cost me in buying. If this is the consequences of our action toward bitcoin, we can’t stop it because we are to greedy for profit and I’m guilty of it. If anyone who is not hypocrites enough that will tell that they’re not holding is a big fat lie.

         Fiat are what we use daily because it can use easily to buy good or spend on the other things. Bitcoin is not the same with fiat money ,it always need an internet to make transactions,it is not tangible and basically bitcoin is good for investment and not for our daily use for our expenses. That's why when the bitcoin price drop just HOLD on if you want to earn more profit. It will not kill the currency aspect of bitcoin because bitcoin was created as digital currency and not offline currency. It design as an asset and the best online investment. The things make it valuable if the demand increase that't why we need to hold because if we are panic selling the demand decrease while the supply in the market increase.

Right mate bitcoin are more likely for hodl purposes,for long term investments and the concept of being a currency already loss to its purpose,there were less merchants accepts bitcoin in the whole world because not everyone knows and use it.People tend to sell or trade it rather that used it as a currency that is used to buy anything.Being comfortable in using fiat is what other people wants,some donot want to stay away from their comfort zone and fiat will remain as their currency.Others also were getting difficulties in accessing it due to the use of internet connection and not everyone can afford to have gadgets and personal computers that can be used in accesing the internet most espcially to those poor countries.

I know your thinking is quite right. We only use Bitcoin for profit and hold, so it can not grow. Instead, if we use it as a real currency, it will grow. However, its value is too high, as well as not legalized in many countries, making it very difficult for us to use them.

And we were waiting for it's value to arise more by waiting for some whales or other country to get into it, as we know soon bitcoin will be adopted by many countries and will be use for many transactions and applications, and when that times happen. Bitcoin will be seems expensive to those who knew it 5years ago.

hoarding or HODL most of the things in this earth that is non-biodegradable(am I right w/ my term?) that keeps on demand are the main characteristic of a 'capitalism' so what can we do about this? I think nothing... but we can talk about it.

If I am a rich person and see an opportunity to make a profit that will make me 1000% or more than my initial investment, should I take it or think for other people's lives because it's unfair to them?
Does it make me a very bad person if I bought Bitcoin when the price of it is so low and hodl it until now?

Bitcoin is destroyed if we think it is.

Bitcoin has multi way to invest and to hold, people are saving their future with bitcoin and they are earning high amount of profit from bitcoin this quarter of life, to hold bitcoin it is very important to holds for the long time so it will give you profit, people sell at low price at panic which cause very small profit but I am sure if they will maintain their level of mind they will end up their bitcoin with high amount of profit, so be positive and you will see your bitcoin growing and increasing gradually.

No doubt about that, holding is what this whole market is based on, and essentially it kills progression and development and slows investment into it and it is what made the prices really unstable, bitcoin was created to be spent as a currency but with this mentality it turned into more of an investments that people buy and save in hope of profit, but the more you think about it the more you realize that things happens for the best if people start selling it regularly there will be no constant demand on it and eventually it will affect its price.

Holding is a strategy in business. That is the rule of war in the marketplace. There will be no coin really perfect to satisfy everyone in all respects. Bitcoin is a coin derived from a decentralized decentralized algorithm. No one will put the effort and the huge amount of money into mining for reasons of "destroying the monetary aspect"

Holding is one of the main purposes of bitcoin. I'm also attracted to the opportunity to keep my savings in bitcoins. I don't care about the price. I'm more interested in protecting my savings from inflation and from banks. We never know when a Bank could go broke and disappear with our money.

I disagree as holding Bitcoin or other crypto currency is the most effective technique to earn from investment. One should not take bitcoin investment as a short period plan; rather a long period plan with it will bring fruitful result.

Ahm! First of all what you talking about is the process of storing your assets in terms of store value. Bitcoin being the store value here and its price is regardless of that because over the time your bitocin stays as it is. However, I don't agree upon using bitcoin in that way because it's not the real prupsoe of it and it will surely kill the bitcoin over time. Just imagine what happens when people are storing the fiat hidden from the government called as black money form. This disturbs the whole ecsosyemt of the country and thus development halts and we get pressurised about not having proper development, amaenties and much more.

Same can happen with the bitcoin over the time if it is held as it is. If it did not move from one place to other then it will not grow.

It looks like you don't see the forest for the trees or how that saying actually goes. It is not a problem of enterprises taking the risk and making Bitcoin into a payment system. In fact, there is no real problem in that because the heart of the problem, as you put it, lies with the buyer, not the seller (enterprises). As an economic truism states, if there is demand, there will be supply. But there is no demand for Bitcoin payments and thus no supply of goods for bitcoins. People use crypto for speculation and prefer to use fiat as a means of payment.

I would slightly differ in the point here because right now the bitcoin is not acceptable worldwide and just some countries with some partial parts are accepting it, secondly there are still approx. three and a half million bitcoins which have to enter in the market and lastly that the ratio of familiarization in the people is less than regular currency, so if people give up on HODL then bitcoin wont be able to give a lot of profit as it giving now.

The most investors in cryptocurrency are the speculators. They obviously are investing for gain due to price increase. The economic way to get prices to increase is HODL. So it is not surprising.

I'm curious what you mean by mobilizing "your crypto across the markets". Yeah, I really am. The majority of people are here for the quick buck, they are not particularly interested in the currency aspect of a cryptocurrency. As I said somewhere in the tread, maybe even in the OP itself lol, there is no economic reason to spend crypto when it works as a financial capital for the investor. And I don't think that people will be more inclined to spend their coins if they see massive losses on their investments, though the latter point is actually in question.

Because bitcoin in general and other altcoins in the cryptocurrency market are volatile, it is recommended to keep bitcoin for long-term investment. If you want to invest in short-term you must be a good trader otherwise you are very easy to lose your property due to the rapid change of this market. Bitcoin is not only considered a currency but also a valuable asset.

For the small holder like many of us,hodling is the best way to expect profit and it has been proven.It's still a long way to expect bitcoin to act as currency with stable rate.Before the bitcoin is distributed enough through out the world,it will keep treated as investment.

Actually its not destroying bitcoins but people who are holding their coins and not selling it in the market are really making the price of bitcoins increase even further because the demand is increasing but the supply is locked so expect a higher price when people is keep on holding.

From my perspective, it is an erroneous attitude. Real value comes from real usage, while speculation doesn't belong here. When people keep on holding, it limits the amount of bitcoins being traded - that's definitely true. And although it contributes to a higher price, this price rise doesn't add anything to real value. What it actually contributes to in the long run is extreme volatility because, as I said, supply diminishes and markets become more susceptible to liquidity storms.

But judging by the circumstances that are on the market today, I'm inclined to assume that the long-term prospects of Bitcoin storage profit increase every day. And the impression is that you'll have to wait long enough, when you get at least some profit from storing Bitcoin.

It really comes down to utility vs price, holding is good for the price but it harms the potential for bitcoin to have a high utility. The holding contributes to speculation which leads to wild price swings that make bitcoin near unusable as a currency and limit its utility. Without some utility holding will become a pointless and useless exercise because there will be no demand.

I partially agree with you that initially bitcoin was introduced as an payment option as against fiat or simultaneous with fiat. But over the time people are now starting to believe in bitcoin and it is being considered  as gold standard for crypto. And go serve as a payment processor there are many other cryptocurrencies to serve this object.
But the fact is we are very far away yet to see cryptoa are bei g used as a payment options as a daily driver.

I don't think that exactly the same can happen. It just can't possibly happen because Bitcoin, as well as other cryptocurrencies, for that matter, doesn't facilitate the exchange of goods, so there is nothing to disturb or destroy economically-wise on the scale of the whole economy of a country. At max, Bitcoin will kill itself, and probably a few other cryptocurrencies, but that's pretty much all. There is basically nothing more to die for.

And we seem to have already reached the point of saturation from where we can only roll downhill with minor rebounds and reversals. However, we can't deny the fact that crypto is quite useful in payments across the globe. Everyone knows its advantages and benefits, so there's no need to repeat them. It is quite possible that the most of Bitcoin's current price is due to plain speculation but the transactional utility is real and it won't go away just because of price hitting the floor. That thing accommodates at least some room for hope.

Nope dude. Holding is not one of the main purposes of bitcoin. Bitcoin was made in order to become a world currency. However, people only focus on how to make money with bitcoin and they forget everything in the Nakamoto Satoshi's whitepaper. And now, only holding is what they think of when we mention bitcoin

We are still looking at bitcoin in terms of its fiat value that's why it is stopping us to spend it whenever it goes down because that would mean, we would need higher amount of coin to pay for those goods or services. Usually, prices of those goods or those services are in fiat value so we still need to convert it. This would always remain as it is because we are still pricing the items in terms of fiat but if the items are price in bitcoin and we do not worry anymore of its equivalent value in fiat then that's the time it would become a currency. For now, it is more like an asset and for speculation purposes.

Yeah you said it right hodling and keeping Bitcoins for investment is not a joke because it is opposite on what Satoshi the founder and Bitcoin he want it to be. Sad reality but we cannot control anyone they can do whatever they want with their Bitcoins. Though they really don't understand or maybe they just grab the opportunity where potential in investment industry is profitable nowadays compared to having it spent to goods or services.

In other words it only means that trading would be no longer helpful? i guess this is where it will be going then, but to some point i agree with you guys. Most of the times when people asked what to do in every crucial situation in the market, they will just say HODL for it. At some point yes it has good impact, while some people keep on holding and limited supply of bitcoin are circulating in the market, more and more the demand will rise, and as of now that there are new investors who only knew bitcoin recently, and it makes the market more competitive.

Bitcoin down right now and we have hold mentality and keep strong to face thsi situation, we know is hard for every one have joined the crypto currency and will be sad when we see the market of the bitcoin, altcoin and bitcoin have down price and now we have great mentality to face it. Just keep and have the other option for your income to keep your money still on your wallet for your needed in daily and stop hope at the crypto now.

So by that logic, gold has limited real value as it has limited real usage and the amount of gold being held in reserves by central banks makes gold more susceptible to liquidity storms.

Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin to be use as digital currency for the people but it seems it's purpose has been altered to investment, thus, bitcoin has become a high value currency. But we can't blame those hodlers because they bought bitcoin and wanted to earn profit from in in a long term. So if the price will go down, of course, they will hodl more.

I don't think so because people who are holding the Bitcoin will never harm themselves by selling them in the current situation of the market. I think they won't bother about the market fluctuation and keep holding them until their desired target is reached.

I don't think, with the longer hold necessarily amount of bitcoin available over the counter would be getting a little bit and this will make more expensive bitcoin. Thus it became a positive thing when you hold your coins in a long time.

It may sound a bit harsh, but Satoshi's 'vision' doesn't matter anymore, and it has been like that for years.

Why sad reality? Bitcoin offers people the freedom to do whatever they think is needed with their coins. Even if it's to buy drugs with, it's their choise, and their value.

I think you don't understand how things work here. People aren't obliged to use Bitcoin in one specific way. If people see only value in Bitcoin as an investment tool, then it's their choise. If people want to hold Bitcoin as long term store of value tool, then it's their choise. People should understand that every form of usage, is allowing Bitcoin's utility to increase, and so does its price.

If there were no people holding their coins, the price would likely remain far below the $1000 level for ever. If there wasn't a thriving altcoin market, which makes sure hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Bitcoins, remain off the regular Bitcoin market, we wouldn't even manage to break through $500 and maintain it for a longer while. Be careful with what you guys wish for.

Holding is good, i do it also with my fiat savings. But i do spend my crypto on goods also :) When i buy something from friends or other people, i always try to make the transaction in crypto, i love it :)

The popularity graph has shown decent increase regarding bitcoin and I don’t think so we ca exactly measure the popularity of bitcoin. Even if the users have decreased because of this hard dump, still the bitcoin is popular among them. The moment it starts increasing in value, these people will do anything to get the hold of one or two bitcoin. These are seasonal investors, cannot affect prices up to this level.

The statement was a little different but still you are right in your opinion too. As people are continuously working in bitcoins. Some of them are holding bitcoins even from last 3 or 4 years and some legends are saving them from 5 years and more.

All these traders or holders will be getting maximum of profit from bitcoins as their patience and work should be appreciated, and they will be achieving this.

I think just the opposite because you can't even imagine what amounts of fiat money is not being used as a cash. It helps BTC's price to be on a certain level.

That is right, but we cannot blame people who wants to hold bitcoin since that is the best potential way for them seeing the value of coin, we cannot control them besides all of us here wanted to have high bitcoin value.

That's one thing that has always worried me about bitcoin in terms of an investment. It makes no difference from a utility perspective if bitcoin costs $10,000 or $1. As long as people are still converting fiat to btc, then sending btc and then converting the received btc back in to usd. They'll just send more or less bitcoin. The only real driver then for the price to increase is that there's so much demand and some people take advantage of that by holding.



Transacting in bitcoin is what's important, because then the demand is from a utility perspective instead of a speculative one. If there is no use case and instead everyone held, there would soon be no demand for bitcoin other than speculative demand and that would quickly disappear as well. There does not need to be a huge amount of utility but some amount is pivotal, gold is an example of this, for the most part it's fairly useless but there are some use cases and so the holding mentality mixed with the limited demand for its utility is enough to keep the price trending upwards.

Gold has more than enough real value and utility, for example, as jewelry. If I'm not mistaken, over 50% of all gold produced annually is used in jewelry across the world. Apart from that, such countries as India, China, and Russia are ready to buy massive amounts of gold whenever its price declines a bit. In fact, only around 15% or so of all gold in the world is held by central banks and governments. In other words, there is real demand for it which supports its price at pretty constant levels.

Gold's only utility beyond a store of wealth is as a shiny pet rock. People buy gold jewellery precisely for the reason that it does store wealth. It is easy to resell and recover your investment +/- change in gold price.

There are striking similarities in the reasons there is demand or gold and the reasons there is demand for Bitcoin.

It has happened over a much longer timescale with gold but there are also striking similarities in the charts.

https://www.tradingview.com/x/Z0AO8pk7/
https://www.tradingview.com/x/Z0AO8pk7/

I'm sorry but that claim has little, if anything, to do with reality. People buy jewelry exclusively as ornamentations such as rings, chainlets, earrings, necklaces, etc. In fact, this is the very definition of jewelry. For investment purposes people buy gold bars and coins because jewelry is not very useful as a store of value. When you buy a piece of jewelry, the price of gold in it amounts only to a certain percentage. It is mostly craftwork, anyway. And if you decide to sell it, you won't be able to get the purchase price.

If that was true then imitations made with non-precious metals and gems would be valued equally. What I said is the reality. Gold derives its value from finite supply and the fact you can't fake it, just like Bitcoin.

You offer a perfect example of what is called a non sequitur. High price for genuine jewelry doesn't mean that people buy it for the purpose of investing. It is simply pointless from an economic view-point. Those who are investing in precious metals buy coins and bars. Or do you seriously believe that when two people marry, they buy gold rings for investment purposes? Note that I don't reject the fact that high demand for gold and low supply of it account for the high prices of this precious metal. But the demand comes mostly from the glamor and personal adornment industry, but that has nothing to do with investing in precious metals.

In fact, I wonder if bitcoin has changed the way or the end goal. After the success and especially in 2017. bitcoin value is reversed when constantly encountered obstacles from communication, facebook, google, mtgox ... We all know that, Hold is the most beneficial thing for business. Because of the nature of the supply is dispersed and waiting from the miners. That is the right business perspective and profitability is the goal of all. It will not affect the bitcoin characteristics.

I decline to accept this attitude as "the right business perspective", let alone "profitability for all" aspect of it simply because it is impossible for everyone to be or stay profitable in speculation. Bitcoin - as well as other cryptocurrencies - is essentially a zero-sum game as told by many and many times. And as I explained in OP, the HODL mentality is in fact quite detrimental for the long-term success of the whole crypto scene even though it may provide transitory, short-lived benefits for speculators and short-term investors.

You offer a perfect example of someone who doesn't understand something so therefore thinks it is illogical.


I'm not saying they buy it for investment but that the choice of precious metals and gems performs that function. If they just wanted it for ornamental purposes why do they pay hundreds of times the price they need to?
What I am saying is the reason jewellery has been made from gold since time began is because of its limited supply and therefore its function as a store of value.


Actually, serious investors will do it through ETFs as that makes much more sense if viewed purely from an economic standpoint. But again that misses the point. The only reason there is demand for gold through jewellery is because of its function as a store of wealth.



Do you seriously think that is what I'm suggesting?


So you understand part of the picture.


And that industry only exists because gold acts as a store of wealth.

For majority, bitcoin is an investment tool and they all look at it as a way of increasing capital. The thought of purchasing daily stuff does not even cross minds of such investors.  Whatever the reasons maybe, but this is the right way to look at bitcoin for the time being.

Once bitcoin will go mainstream, there are chances of it becoming stable and then people will use it like currencies are. But with a prediction of 30k dollars, the best is to buy bitcoin now and hold it.

Holding of the bitcoin is no doubt one of the best thing to do and that it can surely help you in making of a huge amount of money as well and that you can get a very good profit by doing so. Bitcoin is most effective when you plan to hold it for longer period of time and that it can indeed help you in so many ways as while holding, you can also manage to do some other business as well.

We really can't force people to do what we ought to think was or is right in the first place. It's a safe
assumption that bitcoin is a victim of it's own success. Holding however has it's pros and cons, well
pros mostly for the time being. Prices decreasing offers little options and sometimes to no avail we
sell low. But it wasn't always like this back then, when bitcoin was just starting nobody ever thought
that it would be this big and profitable. Prices were considerably unsatisfactory and growth was
a matter of speculation and personal belief. But it did overcame and push through expectations and
that was it's initial success, people saw what bitcoin was capable of and in that innate moment
bitcoin grew out of it's shell and evolved. It may never fulfill it's original reason fully but maybe it's
just bound for something better and bigger.

Couldn't agree more, Look what happens in Japan.

The reason why people always advice everyone to hold their coins is that they want greater profits and that’s what destroys the aspects of bitcoin. They all are longing for huge gains and that’s the irony of some holding their coins especially Bitcoin too.

And what is wrong with that? Everyone wants good returns from their investment and the same goes with crypto-currency investments as well. Only the losers and jealous individuals will be having a problem with that.

We have different perceptions and different mentality how we can get huge profit on bitcoin wether a long term or a short term, all was based on prices they hodl their bitcoin because the prices is on dump and to avoid losses of coins. A deeper minded person always bring positive result in a given period of time.

Well apparently, bitcoin is not anymore perceived as a currency. If you try to ask people why they want to have bitcoins, most of them want it because it increases in value overtime. You cant blame them. Basically, thats the marketing strategy of someone asking people to invest in bitcoin. Once you invest in bitcoin, that is the mentality you get. The spendable and usable aspect of bitcoin is almost always is ignored.

Missed this post somehow. All in all, I agree with your point, and in fact I remember the overall message back then even though I hadn't been much interested in crypto myself at that point. Honestly, your train of thought resonates well with my own understanding and ideas. We may need lower prices - maybe back to 3 digits - to make Bitcoin great again, so to speak. Great as a currency, not as a vehicle for speculation, obviously.

Well, if hodling has helped the price of bitcoin to slide down deeper, then there's no problem with that since we already know bitcoin is way more than an investment than what it is really its purpose as what is being written on Satoshi's WP.

Basically we invest in order to earn. It would be a bluff if you are going to invest and loss everything. No matter what you say, he mindset of every investor is to have profit in their investment. So how can they profit in their investment if the price is going down? The answer is HODL. That is how you can benefit from it.

This is not necessarily so. If people could actually spend their coins on goods they need or services they require, it may in fact be a viable option. Even though that would be a purely psychological thing, of course. I mean spending crypto directly would be effectively the same as selling the coins for fiat and then spending the proceeds, but it would feel completely different. You wouldn't have to go through all the psychological stress and suffering of accepting your losses, so your ego wouldn't be hurt very much, if at all.

All of us here have different perspectives and thinking in life, if people will still  hold their bitcoin of course that is what they will gonna advise to some people, but if people will not hold due to some reasons then it is their decision, they are free to do what is best for them.

I think the HODL mentality doesn't kill the currency aspect of bitcoin,But partly I agree with you because we need processes like this,People must start using bitcoin everyday for their purposes,it will be the best way for price rising and I also want to say that this process is not connected to this mentality,It sounds a bit antagonistic but its my opinion.Today Its obviuos and already tendence as for goverments as  small business investors to use bitcoin as for their payment system and therefore bitcoin has a devloping nature,Today It may not be as comfortable for people to use it for their everyday purposes but I hope it will be in the near future.

There is enough what is called circumstantial evidence. Indeed, you may disagree but the consensus has it that I'm right, after all. Apart from that, I've written everything in the first post. If people buy bitcoins on exchanges, it is unlikely that they will be spending them en masse. So the only option that remains now when the prices are falling is HODLing. Just claiming that something is not the case on the basis there is seemingly no real stats is not much better until you yourself provide these "real stats". Otherwise, it is a moot point in general. Unless we look at the circumstantial evidence, of course. For example, all big wallets are known, and coins there are not moving anywhere, so they are HODLing.

This is not a problem of mentality, but simply to make the choice that - from an economic point of view - is considered more convenient.
And at the moment it is better to preserve what one has.

It is true that holders do not spend coins as they just buy and wait for prices to go back up and then sell. A lot of people do not understand that using bitcoin as a currency would actually help increase its value. When you can buy and sell with bitcoin and do all sorts of transactions with it, then that means it is useful and people would want to get in which would increase the price.

There are better crypto currencies for daily usage but everyone knows that BTC holds value of cryptos as gold. I it's normal that new technology gets so much interest but people should stop making money on it really and work on it to make it really usable

Yes, great point! The catch is that for something to become a currency, it has to have much much lower volatility than bitcoin has now. I'm not going to buy coffee for bitcoin if I can see that it can possibly 1) buy 2 coffees using the same amount in a week, or 2) I could have bought 2 coffees for the same amount a week ago. When the price stabilizes then it will be much more viable as a method of payment. Although to be fair, I do use bitcoin as a method of payment every now and then, by converting fiat into btc, and buying the thing right away, so it doesn't have time to change value significantly. That works, but it's cumbersome, can have a lot of fees and of course, that's not the point of crypto. So, I guess we'll be waiting for some big institutional money to come into crypto, which will cause more adoption, which will cause the price to stabilize in the end after having a big climb :)

Well, HODL is a form of investment and I don't think it destroys the Bitcoin but rather it will strengthen its value. There are also the volume in circulation that is actively being traded, making the market alive.

kinda agreed with your point in the last of your post. the currency aspect of bitcoin kinda forgotten these days because of the HODL mentality like said before too. i think that there is HODL mentality because of the bitcoin price had gone too high. because of many people that greed of much amount of profit and many people heard from others how beautiful its profit. then, HODL mentality born.

Hold mentality also can be found on another currency like USD, GBP, and many more but the interesting fact is that none of them get affected. Bitcoin as a currency is divisible into decimals amount so why worry so much?
Even if the price of bitcoin could just go to 1 million dollar, you can still spend an amount equal of $1 by using bitcoin, so there's nothing to worry.

the volatility is what attracted people to bitcoin , 99% don't even care about the uses it has/can have. so this what you get , a market driven by greed. that isn't solely the reason , bitcoins own scalability and transaction time problems certainly did their part in that.

I think its about speculation on cyrptomarket. People want to make profits from their speculation and thats normal because people want doubling their money. Bitcoin or crypto now unspendable to purchase but with crypto market capitalisation growth, price must be rising too

I agree with that holding bitcoin vanishes its purpose,we practically used it for long term investments,thinking that it would reach more higher than today.People take advantage to hold and buy since the price goes dip and hold for long.Instead of using it in paying online transactions of different goods and as payment of bills.
I just thought that people had already opened up some ways inorder to make bitcoin as a useful tool most specially on making profit.Bitcoiners used to go with the flow on the current usage of bitcoins.People mine,trade,hold and make it as a form of payments.

What you are telling us is so true. We can rarely use crypto coins in buying goods that we need and want. In our country I still do not notice that crypto coin is already used for payment transactions and much more in buying things.
When the price is low, it is expected that everyone will not trade their coins. Of course no body wants to lose his money. Everybody wants profit.

I don't think that there is something wrong with the HODL mentality because it is up to the people if they are going to stick to that mentality because it is a good mentality to just hodl their bitcoins because that is how we are going to minimize the supply of bitcoin and that is how we can reach more and more high prices in the future. So i don't see anything wrong about hodl mentality.

True, this is a contraddiction which well depicts why Bitcoin has so far failed as a currency. Adoption is finalized to speculation, not to real use, for 99% of the people. Difficult to foresee where this will lead to.

Myself, I don't believe that prices are going to stabilize if - and this is a big if - institutional money comes into crypto. Really, why would high-caliber investors want that? Some have tried, like the Winklevoss twins, and how much did it help stabilize prices? Not in the slightest, I daresay. On the contrary, there is strong empirical evidence, as the Mt. Gox trustee has shown us, that at high prices whales are more willing to sell off and get the fuck out. It looks like we need many more such cycles to shake them out of their coins. And the positive outcome is still not set in stone.

We can not blame others for keeping their bitcoins at a low price. It is a normal person's trait to hold the bitcoin to the desired price. Moreover, he bought at a high price, surely he will sell it when the price is higher than the price when buying it. Surely people do not want to lose, really not. Actually I want to use bitcoin to buy the things I want. But in my country it is forbidden to trade using bitcoin, because the state will crack down on bitcoin users. So it's not necessarily the ones holding back the bitcoin because just to wait for the high price.

Yeah, you can not please everyone as we all have our own strategy to make a good profits on this technology. Many people thinks that holding your coins will give them fortune in the future because it's a decentralize currency and in the coming years the supply will become few. Besides, it is not a mortal sin to hold your coins as no rules about it.

It's just that it's more convenient to hold than to spend. Not much stores accept btc as payment anyway. Additionally the underlying technology so far doesnt support day to day transaction. Blockchain is really slow so far and We have to wait for improvements.  When btc gets more popular and it becomes profitable to accept it as payment, people would start accepting it as payment.

I agree that it is not a deadly sin, at least none of the established seven of them, but it can still be deadly to the coin being tightly held. Many people think that the more coins people stash away, the higher will be the price in the end. Personally, I don't think this is or will be the case in reality. If there is a real need for a cryptocurrency, scarce supply will only lead to the emergence of alternative coins which are going to offer essentially the same benefits transaction-wise. As a matter of fact, it is the way things already are in the cryptoverse.

It doesn't make sense to talk about mentality. When trading, we simply try to get the best possible result, based on the information we have available. So, sometimes it is better to keep the coins, other times it is better to sell them. Simple.

I came to the conclusion that stores don't accept crypto because people don't want to spend it in the first place - they prefer to hold their coins - and not the other way around. Shops are eager to accept anything if that contributes to demand and leads to higher consumption. Some people say that volatility is the major issue with wider adoption of Bitcoin as well as other cryptocurrencies but I doubt that as you can easily hedge volatility, and this is what payment processors are likely doing anyway.

in one aspect you are right, hodl is making btc an asset and far away from being a currency but in the future if the price would be stable than no one would hodl it and it can become like a dollar,.

I'm afraid these times lie in a too-distant future that we could make any reliable prediction about their coming. Other than that, I don't see what is going to change that would make Bitcoin into a full-fledged currency. Fiat is not going away anyway, so it will be used as a primary means of exchange, while cryptocurrencies will be used for speculation and, in the best case scenario, as a proxy to fiat, definitely not as a self-sufficient means of payment.

In my opinion, there is a slightly difference in between an asset and a currency and that they cannot be termed as the similar terms. Bitcoin is having so many advantages and features that it fulfills the criteria of being an asset as well as currency at the very same time. this is the reason why it is being used as both the ways and that this thing will keep on happening in the coming days as well.

no holding destory a lot of people because theyre assuming that they will get a lot of money in the future but they didnt know that short trading is more ggoood than holding it for a long time its too late to hold your bitcoin because it pumpso very high but its more good if you have a bitcoins in 2015 i think holding will destroy a lot of people their mind if they loss.

I absolutely agree as I pointed out in my first post in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3183958.msg32995370#msg32995370

It is well worth reading that article I linked to and downloading the research report it references. I was focussing on the asset side of things in the post you quoted as the OP rejects the obvious similarities between Bitcoin and Gold.

I agree with you. I also think that holding it does not destroy Bitcoin but actually increase the value of Bitcoin. With our continuous hold, of course, the value of Bitcoin will continue to be high.

I have to disagree with this attitude. It may look like it helps increase the value of Bitcoin, but all it actually does - in the best case scenario - is raise the price of Bitcoin. But because the former is not the latter, the discrepancy between the two blows out of proportion that ends up in extreme volatility. The effect of these levels of volatility we are yet to see, but it can be said with certainty that it won't facilitate Bitcoin's adoption in the real world.

In short, people do only mainly choose up to play safe (not totally safe since of the volatileness aspect of cryptocurrencies specially on bitcoin). Holding for long terms is somehow less risky compared on doing daily trades. We do know the risk if we do trade actively but we do know that the reward would really very be worth it.This is why some people do risk and able to do such thing but only on few numbers. Holding mentality cant really be removed into a certain person.

Bitcoins are hard to predict. So if someone is interested to look out for earning from these coins, he must be clear about few things. And one of them is holding. Whenever prices are getting lower, don’t just be panicked rather wait until the best move could be taken. Wait for the time when prices will be getting back to their original position. But for this, you need to be patient and calm.

A big influence now has the function of nominating all the remaining crypto coins. Bitcoin is convenient to have in order to buy a promising altcoin at the right time.

This is the major reason why bitcoin is popular all over the world. Just because it has something for everyone. Those who want to use it as an asset, it is digital asset for them because holding it for long time increases it in value exponentially.

This is similar in fashion with other types of assets that have concrete existence. As a currency, it is also used by people for the clearance of their bills.

Well sometimes people want to be a bit safe with crypto's volatility so they hodl. I don't see anything wrong if someone doesn't have the resolve to go for a trade and opt instead to hold. Btc anyways is percieved to be a long term investment in the first place

Myself, I never understood that thing. Why is playing short term more risky? I for one am inclined to think in quite the opposite direction. When you are scalping, day trading, or doing whatever which involves only short-term holding of an asset, you basically give up potential profits in exchange for a smaller, or shorter risk exposure. Obviously, here I'm talking about experienced traders, not some newbies who don't know what they are doing, whether it be trading short or long term. All things considered, long-term holding is in fact more risky. It just happened that crypto had been very forgiving in this regard till recently, but these days may well be over by now.

You're right on this one seeing as if people are focused on holding their coins then no one will be using it for buying and selling but we have to look at this from every angle. The people who are holding bitcoin are doing so because they bought bitcoin as an investment and not for use as a currency which means that they would have to hold in order to make money from it.

Because bitcoin in general and other altcoins in the cryptocurrency market are volatile, it is recommended to keep bitcoin for long-term investment. If you want to invest in short-term you must be a good trader otherwise you are very easy to lose your property due to the rapid change of this market. Bitcoin is not only considered a currency but also a valuable asset. You might make use of it as a currency today and regret why tomorrow.

Many holders use bitcoin as an investment like shares. If the shares give dividends and increase in value then investors will keep them. If they drop they may hold for recovery.

I also do not really know if this Bitcoin when people are HOLD their coins then the price of Bitcoin will experience shakiness

This is the meaning of investing, buying when it's cheap and selling when it's expensive.

But I think you realize that with this high volatility it's nearly impossible to genuinely go ahead and use it as a means of payment And all.
Till the time volatility will remain we won't be able to use it as a means of currency and we already have so many normal currencies in the market that I don't think we need anymore but yes this decentralized part could prove to be good.
I think it was meant for storage purpose not for being used as a normal currency , if it was so then there would have been rules and regulations to implement the stability of Bitcoins.
I think it's doing Preety good .

yes you really seem to hold the assets that can destroy the mental, because a lot of influence and bad news that makes the price of coin to collapse and it is terrible.

This year crypto season hodl didn't work well many felt this hodl strategy put their accounts in loss but we should understand this is market correction so we should wait for market to pick up again

Hodl mentallity, does not really destroy aspects of bitcoin, hodl in a bitcoin for some time make your investment forsee a growth, because if you keep on selling and selling even if the narket is fall ,its a waste of your effort, you need to hodl , for some specific purpose of your coin and investment.

well. the issue is bitcoin is only the first trial of cryptocurrencies. it is not a perfect one. so it is not possible to expect it to be a perfect currency. because of transaction speeds and fees. so approaching as an investment is also reasonable actually.

I do not agree with you. HODL mentality is like a normal "long-term" investment.
A lot of people are doing it in the "real-economy" I don't understand why it couldn't work also for crypto currencies... It makes no sense!

If people didn't hold then the price of Bitcoin wouldn't be as high, but at least it would be stable.

seems true. the mentality and emphsis seems to be on hodl keeps me wondering about the original intent of the coin

The original idea of Bitcoin, the vision of Satoshi was awesome. How cool would it have been to be able to store your wealth on a USB stick for example. But the wrong people have gotten into Bitcoin, and all they do is manipulate people into holding, or selling.

Manipulation is getting strong and some whales take that opportunity to gain more when the others are losing.  Anyway,  that is investment and trading works and not all the time that we are wining. I'm pretty sure bitcoin won't grow if everyone are on holding, it works and moves only when there is transaction happen.

actually not their fault completely. because not all merchants will accept bitcoin as payment, and people who will transact also not necessarily want to agree with bitcoin as payment. so the bitcoin holder will sell it to fiat money and spend it using their fiat money.

That is what bitcoin instilled in our minds because of it's unpredictably characteristics. HODL is something more strategy for i believe thay it will give more profits if we hodl it in a long time. I bet to disagree that it may destroy the aspects of it, thus contributed to some good quality of bitcoin giving some crypto investors hope when they are losing faith due to the bearish moments

For one thing, why spend your bitcoin or any other crypto currency when number one no one will accept it. Next if they're accepting they're inconvinient. Lastly why spend it now when you know that it will be more valuable in the future. We hold our coins so the currency will be stablilize. Once that happens then i would gladly use my holdings.

I dont think HODL mentality destroy the currency aspect. Bitcoin right now can not spend in many country. Peoples just holding bitcoin because waiting regulation from government comes out and able to spend their bitcoin. If regulation from government issued, I am believe bitcoin can be currency but many peoples wont spend it because its too valuable

It is simply the human nature, we want to hold what we have, while the wiser decision will be to make money working for your purposes. As investor you need to be able to turn money into actives.

I agree.It will only be the right time to spend bitcoins if the government would finally legalize the use of bitcoins as a payment system.Because even in my country,bitcoin is not known as a currency since it cannot be used directly to purchase goods,so for now most people settle to hold it first to make their investments grow in time too.

Hodl mentallity does not really destroying the concept of bitcoin, it is every right of every bitcoin holders , to hold their coins for a specific purpose ,if your holding your coin in your entire life thats another story , but if you hold because there is a sudden downfall of price value then it is good for you bitcoin holder for you are protecting your investment to further damage of value.

Yes, it is not easy to earn bitcoin if you don't buy with fiat or with other crytocurrencies. Not even with the so called mining of bitcoin. After buy some valuable amount of bitcoin too, it is very necessary you hodl and sell at a good price. I don't really know why this destroys bitcoin as a currency. Currencies are not volatile.

I agree with you, since the price of the market is now on its dip state,Hold is not destroying the current aspect of bitcoin, it is an strategy to know weather the market will recover its price or it will continue to dip, its a sign from keeping you from giving your self a loss of funds, It is also good to know what is the best and not best to hold, always check the possibility of the coin to shoot up.

Exactly, most of the crypto people missed those opportunity in maintaining their profits, this mentality is a good example of giving your self a time to think weather you will invest or not, holding is not a waste of time but it is also a gaining sign.

Aside from being a currency to pay, it is also a valuable asset so keeping it for a while is very easy to understand. I do not think that keeping Bitcoin will diminish its value but on the other hand it will also help Bitcoin to grow stronger due to the market demand.

quite agree. each person has his or her own mental and individual ability. we can not compare someone who really thinks about his money every time it is categorized he deserves to hold. but also many that are not realistic to the market. that's a choice from each other. a person must be ready and confident with what he did before he did it. it should,

Right.We can't stop people from this hodling mentality because it's also their way of earning and gaining huge amount of profits after a long time of keeping their coins.I think this mentality can even encourage more people to invest in bitcoin knowing it is not only our future global currency but it is considered also a good store of value.

That is the reason why the people are keep on holding because they know that it is the future of our currency and it is a good store of value so they are taking advantage of that in order to gain a lot of profit in the long term basis because they know that bitcoin can still go up in the future because of its characteristics.

If you hold then you get only what you can. First you should fix the selling price so that when you get that price you should sell it. Like when the price went 20k that most of them not selling because they expected more and now they are felling what wrong they have done so fix Tue selling price and then proceed

Bitcoin is far away to be used as currency but the holding is not the reason. When Bitcoin reaches to vast majority of people and people the hodlers will get lower. After some people accept Bitcoin for daily shopping, than we can use Bitcoin as currency.

Yes, that is how investment and trading works, and I doubt that this was the original idea of Satoshi. It's not used as a currency, too many people hold. Don't even want to buy pizza with it any more.

I think I have to wait for a lot of requests so the price goes up, so too many will sell it, so btc can spread, and ultimately reduce the monopoly on bitcoin by whales

Since Bitcoin is finite, whale will never sell enough not to have control. They will always have that advantage.

I think the low and high markets price is as a result of sometimes holders selling for fiat money to spend on daily products.Because there are not many places to spend cryptocurrency directly without converting into fiat money.So if ten people are holding 1btc each and one day they decide to sell and buy car,pay rent,pay hospital bills etc.This means that 10btc will be up for sale in the market that day.This has to the potential to bring the price of btc down on that day if ten new investors do not come into the market to look for 10btc to buy.This means that they will be bought cheap buy maybe existing investors who will take the opportunity. So if we want an only rise rise for btc,then we must work on making spending btc directly without converting.

a lot of influence and bad news that makes coin prices fall and is terrible and in my opinion you really seem to hold assets that can destroy other people's mental

HODL is one of the strategies in investing. Regardless of people's opinion, HODL includes business instincts that are combined with logical calculations, so when deciding to hold a coin for how long, it's a very sensible decision. When bitcoin is still cheap / worthless, everyone thinks it's rubbish. Except for those who have sharp minds who dare to invest as much as possible to have bitcoin, now just enjoy the benefits. Business is an instinct, which gets profit whose instinct is right.