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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: just_me on October 28, 2013, 08:24:34 AM



Title: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on October 28, 2013, 08:24:34 AM
Reply here if you believe in Jesus Christ.

Hi, I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord,

and that Jesus was raised from the dead on the third day

I also believe that if you say that with your mouth,
and believe it in your heart,

Then you will be saved.


Read my Sig, and you see that I am a website designer, but I am also thinking
about getting some backlinks to some Jesus Christ believing websites.
Maybe we can exchange links if you have a Jesus Christ website?
And if it is also a bitcoin site somehow, then all the better. :)



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dillpicklechips on October 28, 2013, 08:37:20 AM
Can I reply even if I don't?

Do you know that some groups believe that there will be a "one world currency" near the end of times? Have you encountered Christians that think it is bitcoin? What are your thoughts? Do you see bitcoin as a free alternative to the future one world currency?



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on October 28, 2013, 08:48:11 AM
Can I reply even if I don't?

Do you know that some groups believe that there will be a "one world currency" near the end of times? Have you encountered Christians that think it is bitcoin? What are your thoughts? Do you see bitcoin as a free alternative to the future one world currency?




Of course you can reply. You just did.

No, I am not really all that familiar with any groups who believe there will be a 'one world currency'.

To be honest, I think I have only contacted a couple of 'christians' about bitcoin, and only briefly, so we didn't really get to talk about things like this.

My thoughts are that I AM SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN HE WHO DIED FOR ME
I also think that computers or images in general are transgressing Gods laws, but I can be involved, so that the Gospel is not impeded. HOW ARE THEY TO BELIEVE UNLESS THEY HEAR ?

I don't know if I see bitcoin as a free alternative to the 'future one world currency'. I wonder if maybe any internet currency might actually have already become a world-wide currency already. But then, perhaps some locations outlawed some of the internet currencies. Bitcoin got beat by Linden dollars from second life by the way, because Linden dollars were here before bitcoin was, I think.

I hope that answers your questions. :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dillpicklechips on October 28, 2013, 09:00:07 AM
Thanks.

I also think that computers or images in general are transgressing Gods laws, but I can be involved, so that the Gospel is not impeded. HOW ARE THEY TO BELIEVE UNLESS THEY HEAR ?
???

So you can transgress as long as good comes from it?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on October 28, 2013, 09:13:34 AM
Thanks.

I also think that computers or images in general are transgressing Gods laws, but I can be involved, so that the Gospel is not impeded. HOW ARE THEY TO BELIEVE UNLESS THEY HEAR ?
???

So you can transgress as long as good comes from it?


The bible says somewhere, something about people who think : 'Let us do evil, that good will come', but their condemnation is just."

What that means, is that 'No', it is not ok to do evil, in order that good will or might come.

But, the bible provides various 'clauses' to allow for involvment in sinful works, such as the PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. The good news.

And when I mention Jesus Christ on the net, while I am wasting my time, then it is that faith that saves me.(kind of like that).

But various people who believe in Jesus might interpret these scriptures in various ways.

I also doubt that God would want believers to die of starvation, if in fact it ever gets to the point where we sin just in order eat. But those who do die, will be rewarded likely, whereas there is less punishments if they did it so they might eat.

I don't know, I have to reason with the holy bible, you know.

Isaiah 1:18
'
"Come now, and let us reason together, Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool."
'


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 28, 2013, 12:13:13 PM
....

The bible says somewhere, something ....

Snipped to create truthiness.

;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: elektibi75 on October 28, 2013, 02:33:43 PM
There are so many explanations and logic in this world,how can you still believe?I tried,but i just can`t....


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 28, 2013, 02:37:52 PM
Yeah, once I believed in magic too, then I turned 13 years old and embraced reality.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: surebet on October 28, 2013, 02:49:02 PM
Fucking hell your website is scammy.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on October 28, 2013, 03:00:56 PM
That guy never made sense to me... Previously he was evil, then he was good, by the most weird logic, sending himself to save the people he judged... Or something...

So no, I don't believe in him, just like I don't believe in various other beings such as Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Xenu, Spaghetti monster, IPU and the teapot and so on...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 28, 2013, 03:01:16 PM
Fucking hell your website is scammy.

Haha, I haven't saw the website, it's hilarious.

Quote
Money Needed For BitCoin Development



okay so I basically need 1 bitcoin in donations so I can buy the necessities to start developing with the 55nm bitfury chips.

The bitcoin will be used to buy some asic chip samples, and also to buy any extras needed.

I already have soldering skills, and tools, and knowledge in C, and knowledge with raspberry pi


Below, is my bitcoin Donation Address:

Quote
I Have A Bit Of A Gambling Problem


Sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose, but recently I hit a bad run, and I went and gambled away $200 that I cannot afford to lose.

I usually try to keep my bets low enough so that if I lose, I don't lose that much.

I know I don't have anyone to blame but myself.

I am also a student, and I really can't afford to lose like that.

All the moralizing aside, it would be nice if someone out there can give me some bitcoins.

Here is my bitcoin address: thanx


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 28, 2013, 03:11:21 PM
I believe in Jesus.  I am jesus.  How?  I have learned, found the akashic records within me.  We are all Jesus, we share one soul, one universe.  Jesus found his sole on psychedelic mushrooms just as I found mine on LSD.  I have performed miracles just like him, I have held back clouds, ran my car on no gas, and possibly cured a dog from cancer with quantum healing.

I have learned the end of the world is imminent.  If we do not end it ourselves consciously, we will surely subconsciously destroy the world.  It is my job to organize a large gathering of people, kill my ego and take flight to show mankind anything is possible.

This is the ascension from the fourth to fifth dimension, a time unleashing powers of all kinds.

You are the sun.  You are the son.  You are god.  You are a loving and conscious being.  Consciousness is god, god is all.

Singularity is within the next 10 years.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Wipeout2097 on October 28, 2013, 03:21:15 PM
No, but he really was a nice dude.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on October 28, 2013, 03:22:55 PM
No, but he really was a nice dude.

Too bad there is lot of bad dudes among is followers...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: btceic on October 28, 2013, 03:26:51 PM
Reply here if you believe in Jesus Christ.

Hi, I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord,

and that Jesus was raised from the dead on the third day

I also believe that if you say that with your mouth,
and believe it in your heart,

Then you will be saved.


Read my Sig, and you see that I am a website designer, but I am also thinking
about getting some backlinks to some Jesus Christ believing websites.
Maybe we can exchange links if you have a Jesus Christ website?
And if it is also a bitcoin site somehow, then all the better. :)



So why are you so lucky to be a chosen one? Why were your great great great anscestors unlucky to have been born before your savior?

If god/jesus/spirit is all knowing then why did he wait until 2000 years ago to reveal himself?

Is jesus' great grandfather not special enough to be one of the chosen ones or is being chosen retroactive?

I was born jewish, why did jesus decide before i was born to not include me as a chosen one?

Do you literally believe the bible is the written word of god? And that it should be treated as infallible rules to live by?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Wilikon on October 28, 2013, 04:08:49 PM
Yes. Someone else believes in Jesus Christ.


*******************************************************************************************

Good News: This thread will NEVER get a Fatwa against the OP, no matter the amount of insults against his belief  ;D ;D ;D

*******************************************************************************************

Edit: against or from.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 28, 2013, 04:15:07 PM
Reply here if you believe in Jesus Christ.

Hi, I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord,

and that Jesus was raised from the dead on the third day

I also believe that if you say that with your mouth,
and believe it in your heart,

Then you will be saved.


Read my Sig, and you see that I am a website designer, but I am also thinking
about getting some backlinks to some Jesus Christ believing websites.
Maybe we can exchange links if you have a Jesus Christ website?
And if it is also a bitcoin site somehow, then all the better. :)



So why are you so lucky to be a chosen one? Why were your great great great anscestors unlucky to have been born before your savior?

If god/jesus/spirit is all knowing then why did he wait until 2000 years ago to reveal himself?

Is jesus' great grandfather not special enough to be one of the chosen ones or is being chosen retroactive?

I was born jewish, why did jesus decide before i was born to not include me as a chosen one?

Do you literally believe the bible is the written word of god? And that it should be treated as infallible rules to live by?
It is not a matter of luck, it is destiny.  Some are simply not destined to comprehend the nature of existence yet, but it's okay because they will in one lifetime.

Quote
If god/jesus/spirit is all knowing then why did he wait until 2000 years ago to reveal himself?
He had to find himself.  We live in hell, the point of earth is to experience life from a foreign perspective, for the adventure, not to be with god.

It is up to us to chose ourselves where we go.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: DoomDumas on October 28, 2013, 06:09:39 PM
YES, I do beleive in God, it's a personal belief as I'm not participating in any ritual, or wear any sign.  It's between me and God, in my spirit.

Beleving in God and being "science orriented" are not exclusive.  Because science cannot mesure, explain or theorize on the existence of God, that does'nt mean God dont exist.

In my house I use reason rather than religion.  Reason/Science is the true and the way to go.  I still beleive in God.  Both are possible, and I say, science is, God also is.  They are'nt exclusive to each other.


I advocate The Zeitgeist Movement, wich is'nt against any religious belief, it simply promote that religions are'nt not a good way to drive a society, but science is.  The Zeitgeist Movement's train of tought include that if you have religious belief, no problem with it, you can, you are free to, but Science is the very best known way to organize and provide for the need of each human on earth.





Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: btceic on October 28, 2013, 06:44:02 PM
YES, I do beleive in God, it's a personal belief as I'm not participating in any ritual, or wear any sign.  It's between me and God, in my spirit.

Beleving in God and being "science orriented" are not exclusive.  Because science cannot mesure, explain or theorize on the existence of God, that does'nt mean God dont exist.

In my house I use reason rather than religion.  Reason/Science is the true and the way to go.  I still beleive in God.  Both are possible, and I say, science is, God also is.  They are'nt exclusive to each other.


I advocate The Zeitgeist Movement, wich is'nt against any religious belief, it simply promote that religions are'nt not a good way to drive a society, but science is.  The Zeitgeist Movement's train of tought include that if you have religious belief, no problem with it, you can, you are free to, but Science is the very best known way to organize and provide for the need of each human on earth.





So in essence you structure your belief system on something that you yourself readily admit cannot be measured?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Kenshin on October 28, 2013, 06:58:33 PM
Jesus Christ never existed.  http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ (http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/)

Actually Christianity is all fake, all the books have been edited by the Vatican. According to the story there were other followers of Jesus who were female. Vatican took all of them out of the bible.

Genesis is total rubbish, according to the bible. The world was created a few thousands years ago. We all know that is not true.

If Adam and Eve really existed, they should be black and not white. As we all know that all root of human came from Africa.

I used to be a Christian, who was forced to go to church and Sunday school. When I was older, I do a lot more research. And I can say that all religions are made by human.

Muslim's Qur'an was again wrote by a human, in fact it was written by a woman. The younger wife of Mohamed. She was the only person who know what is in the Qur'an. So she tell other Muslim followers what is in the Qur'an. Many people said that Mohamed created the Qur'an is a miracle because he don't know how to read or write. But he never wrote the Qur'an.

Enough said.  :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 28, 2013, 07:03:34 PM
Humans are capable of measuring very little of all the frequencies of the universe.

It can be experienced.

Religion is man's interpretation of god and has been littered by misinterpretation, intentionally and not.  It is not perfect but it has truths.  Only when one elapses their self with inner spirituality will one find the true interpretation of god.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 28, 2013, 07:11:10 PM
Jesus Christ never existed.  http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

Actually Christianity is all fake, all the books have been edited by the Vatican. According to the story there were other followers of Jesus who were female. Vatican took all of them out of the bible.

Genesis is total rubbish, according to the bible. The world was created a few thousands years ago. We all know that is not true.

If Adam and Eve really existed, they should be black and not white. As we all know that all root of human came from Africa.

Sorry, that's bullshit!

The Jesus never existed part, I mean...

There are lots of scripture prior to the existence of Vatican, well, not "lots", but there are enough.

You can search a guy called Bart Ehrman, he is a Bible schooler, and he throws away many myths around Jesus, even the "Jesus never existed" myth.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on October 29, 2013, 12:15:36 AM
Jesus may have existed, but it's likely he wasn't called Jesus until later, nor did he perform magic.

Anyway, the fact that Jesus's life revolves around an allegory of winter solstice makes it hard to take it seriously; even if Jesus existed, if he's not the man we know him to be, did he actually exist?

Example: I tell you about this guy who can leap over the tallest buildings, stop speeding bullets, shoot laser beams from his eyes.  So you meet this guy, as I have described, except he cannot do anything I said he could do.  Is it still the same fellow?--he doesn't match the description in the least, but it's supposedly him.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 29, 2013, 12:25:58 AM
Jesus may have existed, but it's likely he wasn't called Jesus until later, nor did he perform magic.

Anyway, the fact that Jesus's life revolves around an allegory of winter solstice makes it hard to take it seriously; even if Jesus existed, if he's not the man we know him to be, did he actually exist?

Example: I tell you about this guy who can leap over the tallest buildings, stop speeding bullets, shoot laser beams from his eyes.  So you meet this guy, as I have described, except he cannot do anything I said he could do.  Is it still the same fellow?--he doesn't match the description in the least, but it's supposedly him.

I see where you're going.

A few things about Kim Jong Il:

He had a supernatural birth.

According to North Korean historical literature, Kim Jong Il was born in a log cabin inside a secret base on Korea’s most sacred mountain, Mt. Paekdu. At the moment of his birth, a bright star lit up the sky, the seasons spontaneously changed from winter to spring, and rainbows appeared.

He is a fashion trendsetter

According to North Korea’s newspaper Rodong Sinmun, Kim Jong Il’s iconic style has become a global phenomenon.

The world loves him

According to state-run media, Kimg Jong Il is the most prominent statesman in the present world, and people in countries the whole planet over celebrate his birthday with films and festivals.

He invented the hamburger

He is the best natural golfer in history

In 1994, it was reported by Pyongyang media outlets that Kim Jong Il shot 38 under par on a regulation 18-hole golf course – including 5 holes in one! That score is 25 shots better than the best round in history, and is made even more amazing by the fact that it was his first time playing the sport.


Well, we can separate fact from fiction.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: DoomDumas on October 29, 2013, 12:34:22 AM
YES, I do beleive in God, it's a personal belief as I'm not participating in any ritual, or wear any sign.  It's between me and God, in my spirit.

Beleving in God and being "science orriented" are not exclusive.  Because science cannot mesure, explain or theorize on the existence of God, that does'nt mean God dont exist.

In my house I use reason rather than religion.  Reason/Science is the true and the way to go.  I still beleive in God.  Both are possible, and I say, science is, God also is.  They are'nt exclusive to each other.


I advocate The Zeitgeist Movement, wich is'nt against any religious belief, it simply promote that religions are'nt not a good way to drive a society, but science is.  The Zeitgeist Movement's train of tought include that if you have religious belief, no problem with it, you can, you are free to, but Science is the very best known way to organize and provide for the need of each human on earth.





So in essence you structure your belief system on something that you yourself readily admit cannot be measured?

Yes.  That's part of the definition of faith


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on October 29, 2013, 12:38:43 AM
Jesus may have existed, but it's likely he wasn't called Jesus until later, nor did he perform magic.

Anyway, the fact that Jesus's life revolves around an allegory of winter solstice makes it hard to take it seriously; even if Jesus existed, if he's not the man we know him to be, did he actually exist?

Example: I tell you about this guy who can leap over the tallest buildings, stop speeding bullets, shoot laser beams from his eyes.  So you meet this guy, as I have described, except he cannot do anything I said he could do.  Is it still the same fellow?--he doesn't match the description in the least, but it's supposedly him.

I see where you're going.

A few things about Kim Jong Il:

He had a supernatural birth.

According to North Korean historical literature, Kim Jong Il was born in a log cabin inside a secret base on Korea’s most sacred mountain, Mt. Paekdu. At the moment of his birth, a bright star lit up the sky, the seasons spontaneously changed from winter to spring, and rainbows appeared.

He is a fashion trendsetter

According to North Korea’s newspaper Rodong Sinmun, Kim Jong Il’s iconic style has become a global phenomenon.

The world loves him

According to state-run media, Kimg Jong Il is the most prominent statesman in the present world, and people in countries the whole planet over celebrate his birthday with films and festivals.

He invented the hamburger

He is the best natural golfer in history

In 1994, it was reported by Pyongyang media outlets that Kim Jong Il shot 38 under par on a regulation 18-hole golf course – including 5 holes in one! That score is 25 shots better than the best round in history, and is made even more amazing by the fact that it was his first time playing the sport.


Well, we can separate fact from fiction.

Right; however, the problem with Christ's life is that is perfectly matches the life of mythological figures before him in other religions, with a spread far greater than any being could live.  As I said, his life is an allegory of the winter solstice, and did not originate in Christianity.

If there existed a man named Jesus Christ who was not the Jesus Christ pictured in the Bible, then who do we believe in, an ordinary man we know nothing about, or an allegory?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 29, 2013, 01:01:37 AM
Right; however, the problem with Christ's life is that is perfectly matches the life of mythological figures before him in other religions, with a spread far greater than any being could live.  As I said, his life is an allegory of the winter solstice, and did not originate in Christianity.

If there existed a man named Jesus Christ who was not the Jesus Christ pictured in the Bible, then who do we believe in, an ordinary man we know nothing about, or an allegory?

Well, it doesn't perfectly matches, if you got that information from the Zeitgeist, sorry, but it's bad info.

I don't think that came from the sheep herders in middle east, if you're referring to why Christmas is on 25th December, for example, that and many other Christian traditions came from local European, myths, traditions, celebrations or religions, it was in the "christianization" of the Roman Empire that they had to co-opt the local traditions and insert something christian in them. You can't find a verse in the Bible that says Jesus was born on 25th December.

EDIT: Here's a Bart Ehrman playlist with lectures, debates and interviews, enjoy. :)

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-1EDrOV89rLHPZGAonMZWOJ8nljVFCN9


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 29, 2013, 02:28:01 AM
Jesus may have existed, but it's likely he wasn't called Jesus until later, nor did he perform magic......

If there existed a man named Jesus Christ who was not the Jesus Christ pictured in the Bible, then who do we believe in, an ordinary man we know nothing about, or an allegory?

Look, I'm basically athiest (but not the stupid mechanistic-naturalist 19th century type).  There are a lot of errors in this thread so bear with me for two pp.

Historians mostly agree there was a guy named Jesus.  There are a few written references from the old texts.  Historians mostly agree the 4 books of the new testament "gospels" were written between 200 and 400  years AD - they are not by his disciples.  The older books (like Mark) show more of a straight account of events, the newer ones (John) show much more mythology.  Over time, more and more mythology got added in.

So yes, you are being asked to believe in the largely mythological character.  However, there are a lot of Christians who do not believe in the supernatural aspects of this shit.  They don't think Jesus did miracles and they don't think he rose from the dead.  They simply think something like, there is a lot of wisdom in the bible and much to learn from it, even though it has errors.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 29, 2013, 02:33:21 AM
I only believe in things that have good evidence and/or logcally consistent arguments to back them up, i have not yet encountered such evidence and/or logically consistent arguments for any religion. I am however uncompromisingly open minded so if you felt so inclined as to share with me the evidence and/or arguments that convinced you, and if the evidence evidence is good and/or the arguments are sound than i'll certainly climb on board.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 29, 2013, 02:42:44 AM
I'm uncompromisingly open minded. If you can show me good evidence than I'll climb on board. So what is your evidence?
Evidence for what????

If you refer to 'a belief in Jesus Christ' then you refer to a faith based dogma.  Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process.

I would note here that a personal stand based on faith/belief can be much, much stronger than one based on 'evidence'.

IIRC Jesus himself scorned those who demanded 'proof' and who could not or would not take matters on faith.  Not in the mood to go look it up, but the question posed was not his nature as 'son of god or man/god'.  Rather the question would have been related to 'the Creator' or such.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 29, 2013, 02:56:01 AM
I'm uncompromisingly open minded. If you can show me good evidence than I'll climb on board. So what is your evidence?
Evidence for what????

If you refer to 'a belief in Jesus Christ' then you refer to a faith based dogma.  Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process.

I would note here that a personal stand based on faith/belief can be much, much stronger than one based on 'evidence'.

IIRC Jesus himself scorned those who demanded 'proof' and who could not or would not take matters on faith.  Not in the mood to go look it up, but the question posed was not his nature as 'son of god or man/god'.  Rather the question would have been related to 'the Creator' or such.



if he did that than i could just counter by saying that he should disbelieve in jesus and that he should accept that claim on faith. If he believes that faith is a good justification for believing something than he should also believe my faith based claim. Meaning that he should both believe in and disbelieve in jesus at the same time.

also is there anything wrong with this statement? -> "i believe that i am". if not than, using the socratic method, i think it could be used to break your claim "Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process."


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 29, 2013, 03:02:29 AM
I only believe in things that have good evidence and/or logcally consistent arguments to back them up, i have not yet encountered such evidence and/or logically consistent arguments for any religion. I am however uncompromisingly open minded so if you felt so inclined as to share with me the evidence and/or arguments that convinced you, and if the evidence evidence is good and/or the arguments are sound than i'll certainly climb on board.
Sure I will explain my point of view.  For the largest part I hold to be an atheist, and I am not particularly interested in the 'jesus christ was he real, etc' issue of western philosophy.

Today many think we approach a technological singularity, and some style of intelligent machines.  I think this is reasonable if we give it 50-100 years, instead of the 2025 date that's often quoted.  We know some of the consequences of that type of an event.  They may be summarized as, after the initial spark of consciousness, growth of that entity's knowledge and understanding and capability in terms of doublings per millisecond.  The generally accepted statement is that "We don't know what the world will be like 24 hours later."

Having noted these ideas, I would conjecture that we're not the first or only intelligent species to have existed in the several cycles of stellar evolution in the universe.  And there would have been other, prior technological singularities.  This implies that the universe is what might be called 'intelligence and consciousness rich'.  I think that's a reasonable view - if you like, consider it faith based.  But it doesn't have much to do with religions as they have existed historically, does it?

The opposite end of the spectrum, and what I would call the "19th century mechanistic atheist view", is that man is alone, as far as the evidence shows.  This viewpoint reminds me of what Galileo fought against.

The universe DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND THE EARTH.

lol...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 29, 2013, 03:07:15 AM
....is there anything wrong with this statement? -> "i believe that i am". if not than, using the socratic method, i think it could be used to break your claim "Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process."

I think Christians might look at things such as the wonders of life as 'evidence', but with exceptions of some of them who are idiots and misunderstand their own faith, they are basically, 'the faithful'.

Faith, and belief, are central issues.  "evidence", is secondary or tertiary...

Yes, there is a lot wrong with the statement "I believe that I am."  Let me correct it to "I am."


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 29, 2013, 03:09:50 AM
I only believe in things that have good evidence and/or logcally consistent arguments to back them up, i have not yet encountered such evidence and/or logically consistent arguments for any religion. I am however uncompromisingly open minded so if you felt so inclined as to share with me the evidence and/or arguments that convinced you, and if the evidence evidence is good and/or the arguments are sound than i'll certainly climb on board.
Sure I will explain my point of view.  For the largest part I hold to be an atheist, and I am not particularly interested in the 'jesus christ was he real, etc' issue of western philosophy.

Today many think we approach a technological singularity, and some style of intelligent machines.  I think this is reasonable if we give it 50-100 years, instead of the 2025 date that's often quoted.  We know some of the consequences of that type of an event.  They may be summarized as, after the initial spark of consciousness, growth of that entity's knowledge and understanding and capability in terms of doublings per millisecond.  The generally accepted statement is that "We don't know what the world will be like 24 hours later."

Having noted these ideas, I would conjecture that we're not the first or only intelligent species to have existed in the several cycles of stellar evolution in the universe.  And there would have been other, prior technological singularities.  This implies that the universe is what might be called 'intelligence and consciousness rich'.  I think that's a reasonable view - if you like, consider it faith based.  But it doesn't have much to do with religions as they have existed historically, does it?

The opposite end of the spectrum, and what I would call the "19th century mechanistic atheist view", is that man is alone, as far as the evidence shows.  This viewpoint reminds me of what Galileo fought against.

The universe DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND THE EARTH.

lol...

oh sure, and we will probably simulate universes on computers in the future, and those universes will probably develop life and that life will build computers that simulate universes on into infinity and that is a pretty good argument for the fact that our universe was probably simulated in such a manner. if you want to call the scientists who created our universe gods, than yea ok there is a reasonable chance that god or gods are real. That doesn't meet my criteria for god though. And of course none of that is faith based, i think its a pretty decent and logically consistent argument. if you want to call such beings gods, than it sure as hell is a better argument for the existence of gods than, "well i just have faith".


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 29, 2013, 03:15:27 AM
....is there anything wrong with this statement? -> "i believe that i am". if not than, using the socratic method, i think it could be used to break your claim "Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process."

I think Christians might look at things such as the wonders of life as 'evidence', but with exceptions of some of them who are idiots and misunderstand their own faith, they are basically, 'the faithful'.

Faith, and belief, are central issues.  "evidence", is secondary or tertiary...

Yes, there is a lot wrong with the statement "I believe that I am."  Let me correct it to "I am."

as far as wonders being evidence, its not a bad argument really, i sympathize with it. unfortunately it is flawed, because we have NO idea how large the sample set is for initial conditions for universes. there could be *insert graham's number here* total universe out there, each with random laws. if this were the case than there would almost certainly be some with wonderful properties and with no need for an intelligent creator. and honestly an intelligent creator doesnt solve that problem, it just begs the question because it would be a wonder its self.

What is wrong with the statement "i believe that i am", is there some reason why i should not believe that i am?

"i am" is also a true statement but it does have a slightly different meaning from "i believe that i am". granted you could say that there is never any good reason to chose the statement "i believe that i am" over the statement "i am" but that doesn't make it wrong.

p.s. sometimes epistemology breaks by brain. so if what i wrote up there is totally insane, and it might be, i apologize for that.  ;D

*edit* perhapse one might argue that at this point we are delving so deep into the bowels of epistemological thought that the Socratic method is no longer valid since the Socratic method is built on top of such structures.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Magazine on October 29, 2013, 03:16:04 AM
No,


I'll prob find a lump in my ball sack now for dissing the almighty holy jebus.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: DobZombie on October 29, 2013, 04:33:35 AM
I believe there was a bloke named Jesus.

I believe he was overloaded with charisma.

I don't believe he was magical tho


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: spooderman on October 29, 2013, 07:05:01 AM
Juses Crust


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: rampalija on October 29, 2013, 07:07:37 AM
i do Belive


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 29, 2013, 11:36:18 AM
....

oh sure, and we will probably simulate universes on computers in the future, and those universes will probably develop life and that life will build computers that simulate universes on into infinity and that is a pretty good argument for the fact that our universe was probably simulated in such a manner. if you want to call the scientists who created our universe gods, than yea ok there is a reasonable chance that god or gods are real. That doesn't meet my criteria for god though. And of course none of that is faith based, i think its a pretty decent and logically consistent argument. if you want to call such beings gods, than it sure as hell is a better argument for the existence of gods than, "well i just have faith".
It does not follow that 'universes can be simulated on computers', because there you encounter the problem of resolution of the simulated universe.  Perhaps you might use a granularity of 1 centimeter.  But that wouldn't resolve a person very well, and would not give him much of a brain.  So ideally, you'd use a resolution of a subatomic particle.  You'd need as much memory for your computer as the total sum of subatomic particles....at that point the particles clearly have the advantage, as opposed to the simulation.

If we argue for the existence of a consciousness-dense universe, then using the prior assertions it is required to recognize that all of that consciousness came to be after the big bang.  Another common concept for a god is something/someone that stands outside the process of the creation of the universe, who was there 'before the big bang'.  This to me is a question that does not have to be answered since dimensionality and the arrow of time did not exist before the big bang.  The question is improperly constructed.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: verucabathsalts on October 29, 2013, 01:02:09 PM
I grew up learning about Jesus from my family and they were always obsessed with the second coming. Once you've believed that for so long, picturing Jesus shooting from the sky on a fiery chariot, you kind've slack on life, at least some of my family did. Couldn't embrace the rapture element...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: rascal777 on October 29, 2013, 01:15:16 PM
I believe.

I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ.

I also believe in Laying on hands and prayer healing.  I have seen/heard way to much of people deathly sick, getting serious round the clock prayer from people that are serious about praying, and then going back to the doctor with nothing to be found.

If you are a skeptic, Check out a few live broadcast services sometime.

http://www.believerstabernacle.net/

Also, to test if God is talking to you, simply read some Bible scripture, have a serious questioning conversation about the subject matter with a loved one, and then watch a live service, and see if that subject is not talked about at some point in the broadcast.

Jesus was raised from the dead on the third day

I also believe that if you say that with your mouth,
and believe it in your heart,  AND DO WORKS THAT SHOW FAITH.

Then you will be saved.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on October 29, 2013, 01:21:11 PM
I believe there was a bloke named Jesus.

I believe he was overloaded with charisma.

I don't believe he was magical tho

I'm more inclined to there being a roman named Paul who was rather good at telling stuff...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Eternity on October 29, 2013, 01:21:36 PM
Yes I do :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 29, 2013, 02:32:03 PM
I grew up learning about Jesus from my family and they were always obsessed with the second coming. Once you've believed that for so long, picturing Jesus shooting from the sky on a fiery chariot, you kind've slack on life, at least some of my family did. Couldn't embrace the rapture element...
A fiery CHARIOT?

Aw come on.

At least let's give him a 1968 Camaro, yellow with black stripes, twin  turbocharged.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BittBurger on October 29, 2013, 02:42:17 PM
No, I am not really all that familiar with any groups who believe there will be a 'one world currency'.
So you're a christian has no idea what the bible says.  Awesome.

As far as 'groups' that believe there will be a one world currency, pretty much every church on planet earth, for starters.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Kenshin on October 29, 2013, 03:31:09 PM

Jesus was raised from the dead on the third day


There is evidence that he never die on the cross.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8oTvddRFLA


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 29, 2013, 03:51:23 PM
....is there anything wrong with this statement? -> "i believe that i am". if not than, using the socratic method, i think it could be used to break your claim "Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process."

I think Christians might look at things such as the wonders of life as 'evidence', but with exceptions of some of them who are idiots and misunderstand their own faith, they are basically, 'the faithful'.

Faith, and belief, are central issues.  "evidence", is secondary or tertiary...

Yes, there is a lot wrong with the statement "I believe that I am."  Let me correct it to "I am."
Or how about I am what I believe?

There's nothing wrong with faith or belief, when you truly believe something, that's when your whole reality can change exponentially.

Why can nobody comprehend or understand the concept of performing miracles?  If you believe something enough, it becomes true.  Jesus was able to believe in himself and perform the impossible.  I have performed the impossible myself from quantum healing a dog from cancer to holding back a piece of a cloud from moving while others watched.  Nothing is impossible and beliefs are not issues for everyone has beliefs and they manifest the physical world.  Negative beliefs are negative, but believing in something positive is only true.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Wilikon on October 29, 2013, 06:18:08 PM
It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 29, 2013, 06:54:48 PM
There's nothing wrong with faith or belief, when you truly believe something, that's when your whole reality can change exponentially.

This is not black and white, if someone truly believes he has to kill other people or deny other people their rights because their god, or aliens, says so, that's wrong!


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on October 29, 2013, 09:19:12 PM
Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 29, 2013, 10:01:28 PM
No, I am not really all that familiar with any groups who believe there will be a 'one world currency'.
So you're a christian has no idea what the bible says.  Awesome.

As far as 'groups' that believe there will be a one world currency, pretty much every church on planet earth, for starters.
No they do not.  You refer to a verse in Revelations having to do with the number 666.  There are many interpretations to that and many regard Revelations as totally stupid.

It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)
I agree 100%.  I also believe a lot of media personalities and a lot of individuals who make fun of Christians but don't even think of giving equal time and equal ridicule to muslims are spineless, gutless wimps and intellectually dishonest.

....is there anything wrong with this statement? -> "i believe that i am". if not than, using the socratic method, i think it could be used to break your claim "Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process."

I think Christians might look at things such as the wonders of life as 'evidence', but with exceptions of some of them who are idiots and misunderstand their own faith, they are basically, 'the faithful'.

Faith, and belief, are central issues.  "evidence", is secondary or tertiary...

Yes, there is a lot wrong with the statement "I believe that I am."  Let me correct it to "I am."
Or how about I am what I believe?
No, you are not what you believe.  But beliefs can take a person a long way toward becoming better.

Or worse.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 29, 2013, 10:15:34 PM
Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
Yessir I believe in everything, even santa clause (he's somewhere in the universe).

Especially astral projection, since I've done that.

There's nothing wrong with faith or belief, when you truly believe something, that's when your whole reality can change exponentially.

This is not black and white, if someone truly believes he has to kill other people or deny other people their rights because their god, or aliens, says so, that's wrong!
Then the problem is the belief that someone has to kill someone, not the foundation of beliefs.  You can equally oppose that belief, as you do.

Beliefs are neutral, we interpret them to be good or bad.  So believe in positives, and you'll find unconditional love.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Bullionado on October 29, 2013, 10:56:48 PM
Certain parts of religion such as xmas, diwali, eid etc are good and are enjoyed by millions.

Even atheists enjoy xmas with friends and family because it is something that people tend to celebrate regardless of whether they are devout church goers.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 29, 2013, 11:06:45 PM
Certain parts of religion such as xmas, diwali, eid etc are good and are enjoyed by millions.

Even atheists enjoy xmas with friends and family because it is something that people tend to celebrate regardless of whether they are devout church goers.

Yeah, I do celebrate the Winter Solstice with a good dinner, and enjoy the gifts. :D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: ANiceJewishBoy on October 30, 2013, 12:31:55 AM
No, I believe in a man named Jeshua vin Joseph who was not the savior of man kind, but sacrificed himself so that his followers may live in peace from the government.

When Jesus was killed, Rome felt it was safe to stop hunting down Christians so aggressively (at least for the time being).

And the belief contradicts itself. It says Jesus knew he was going to die, then Jesus is on the cross saying "Father, why have you forsaken me. In your heart forsaken me. In your eyes forsaken me. In your mind forsaken me."

He was not ready to die. He was not done. Stop acting like it was good that he died, it's gross that no one acknowledges his sadness at dying and potential if he had been allowed to live.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 30, 2013, 01:02:15 AM
No, I believe in a man named Jeshua vin Joseph who was not the savior of man kind, but sacrificed himself so that his followers may live in peace from the government.

When Jesus was killed, Rome felt it was safe to stop hunting down Christians so aggressively (at least for the time being).

And the belief contradicts itself. It says Jesus knew he was going to die, then Jesus is on the cross saying "Father, why have you forsaken me. In your heart forsaken me. In your eyes forsaken me. In your mind forsaken me."

He was not ready to die. He was not done. Stop acting like it was good that he died, it's gross that no one acknowledges his sadness at dying and potential if he had been allowed to live.

Wrong!!!!11


And you'll find another last words of Jesus.

Luke 23:46

Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: ANiceJewishBoy on October 30, 2013, 01:04:18 AM
No, I believe in a man named Jeshua vin Joseph who was not the savior of man kind, but sacrificed himself so that his followers may live in peace from the government.

When Jesus was killed, Rome felt it was safe to stop hunting down Christians so aggressively (at least for the time being).

And the belief contradicts itself. It says Jesus knew he was going to die, then Jesus is on the cross saying "Father, why have you forsaken me. In your heart forsaken me. In your eyes forsaken me. In your mind forsaken me."

He was not ready to die. He was not done. Stop acting like it was good that he died, it's gross that no one acknowledges his sadness at dying and potential if he had been allowed to live.

Wrong!!!!11


And you'll find another last words of Jesus.

Luke 23:46

Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

That is not wrong. After the death of Jesus they breathed a sigh of relief, as if it was almost over.

And just because he accepted it in the end, does not mean he knew about it before hand, or was finished living.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 30, 2013, 02:20:54 AM
No, I believe in a man named Jeshua vin Joseph who was not the savior of man kind, but sacrificed himself so that his followers may live in peace from the government.

When Jesus was killed, Rome felt it was safe to stop hunting down Christians so aggressively (at least for the time being).

And the belief contradicts itself. It says Jesus knew he was going to die, then Jesus is on the cross saying "Father, why have you forsaken me. In your heart forsaken me. In your eyes forsaken me. In your mind forsaken me."

He was not ready to die. He was not done. Stop acting like it was good that he died, it's gross that no one acknowledges his sadness at dying and potential if he had been allowed to live.

Wrong!!!!11


And you'll find another last words of Jesus.

Luke 23:46

Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

That is not wrong. After the death of Jesus they breathed a sigh of relief, as if it was almost over.

And just because he accepted it in the end, does not mean he knew about it before hand, or was finished living.

Dude, there were no "Christians" before Jesus death, they were all Jews, the Christians persecution comes later.

And I just pointed a contradiction in the Bible, with the last words thing...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 04:08:37 AM
Yes.  I believe!  You can call me a "Jesus Freak!"   ;D

I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

For those that are so sure that Jesus is a made up and a myth I will begin praying now for Jesus to show Himself to you.  I could argue and debate but it generally does not work that well anyways.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 04:16:35 AM
Can I reply even if I don't?

Do you know that some groups believe that there will be a "one world currency" near the end of times? Have you encountered Christians that think it is bitcoin? What are your thoughts? Do you see bitcoin as a free alternative to the future one world currency?



Yes.  Bitcoin could most likely be the "one world currency" that is speculated to be mentioned in Revelation.  Which should encourage us to really believe in Bitcoin's success shouldn't it?  Hey, if the Bible predicts that there will be one coming then it only adds more proof to the Bible right?

As a Christian though I would not be afraid of it.  Bitcoin in itself will not be the problem.  The problem is that Bitcoin use will be hard to trace and therefore hard for governments to manage.  So to gain more "control" at some point governments will need to put some sort of mark on us to keep track of what is purchased.  It makes total sense now doesn't it?  Governments will regulate anyway they can! 

It will get tricky for Christians when that day comes for sure.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 30, 2013, 04:41:43 AM
Yes.  I believe!  You can call me a "Jesus Freak!"   ;D

I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

For those that are so sure that Jesus is a made up and a myth I will begin praying now for Jesus to show Himself to you.  I could argue and debate but it generally does not work that well anyways.

or they have just never been provided with convincing evidence  ::)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 04:44:09 AM
Yes.  I believe!  You can call me a "Jesus Freak!"   ;D

I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

For those that are so sure that Jesus is a made up and a myth I will begin praying now for Jesus to show Himself to you.  I could argue and debate but it generally does not work that well anyways.

or they have just never been provided with convincing evidence  ::)

And you just made my prayer list!  ;D  I will pray that God will give you all the evidence you ever needed! 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 30, 2013, 04:46:24 AM
Yes.  I believe!  You can call me a "Jesus Freak!"   ;D

I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

For those that are so sure that Jesus is a made up and a myth I will begin praying now for Jesus to show Himself to you.  I could argue and debate but it generally does not work that well anyways.

or they have just never been provided with convincing evidence  ::)

And you just made my prayer list!  ;D  I will pray that God will give you all the evidence you ever needed! 

That would be super sweet if he actually listened to you and actually came down to pay me a visit. I would freaking love to have god over for dinner sometime.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 04:49:53 AM
Yes.  I believe!  You can call me a "Jesus Freak!"   ;D

I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

For those that are so sure that Jesus is a made up and a myth I will begin praying now for Jesus to show Himself to you.  I could argue and debate but it generally does not work that well anyways.

or they have just never been provided with convincing evidence  ::)

And you just made my prayer list!  ;D  I will pray that God will give you all the evidence you ever needed! 

That would be super sweet if he actually listened to you and actually came down to pay me a visit. I would freaking love to have god over for dinner sometime.

Well I prayed that God would reveal Himself to you and give you undeniable evidence of His existence and His love for you so just wait and see what happens. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 30, 2013, 05:01:26 AM
Yes.  I believe!  You can call me a "Jesus Freak!"   ;D

I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

For those that are so sure that Jesus is a made up and a myth I will begin praying now for Jesus to show Himself to you.  I could argue and debate but it generally does not work that well anyways.

or they have just never been provided with convincing evidence  ::)

And you just made my prayer list!  ;D  I will pray that God will give you all the evidence you ever needed!  

That would be super sweet if he actually listened to you and actually came down to pay me a visit. I would freaking love to have god over for dinner sometime.

Well I prayed that God would reveal Himself to you and give you undeniable evidence of His existence and His love for you so just wait and see what happens.  

actually its technically imposable to have undeniable evidence of something supernatural like that. so let me give an example.

say some glowing guy walked through my door and said "im god" and i said "oh yea well prove it" and so he performed some incredible magic tricks that no magician could do. so like for example he brought the chair in my kitchen to life, and it had eyes and a mouth and jumped around like something out of a cartoon, And then he granted me the power of flight, and i flew all over the room. Even if that happened, i would have no means by which to differentiate between a really advanced alien life form and a super natural being. So even with all of that crazy evidence i would have no way of knowing whether it was actually god,


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 05:13:45 AM
Ok.  Then I will just pray that you will not want to deny God when He reveals Himself to you.  Is that better?  ;) 

I guess all the "evidence" I give many people deny anyways so I suppose that everything is deniable.  It is just part of the gift of "free will" God gives us.  We are free to deny.  ;)

I do think that being highly intelligent can become an obstacle to knowing God.  There are things that are a bit of a mystery and are only revealed to us supernaturally and our logical minds can make us question Him.  That is why I believe prayer is more effective than any logical debate or proof could ever be.  The Bible says that "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 05:21:45 AM
Also, I should mention, that you are right that some people are deceived and think that they are following God but in reality they are not.  That is why the Bible is pretty clear about the fact that people will say "There is the Christ" but to be careful not to just follow anyone.  And the Bible warns of the Anti-Christ that will come and do miracles and even deceive the "elect if that were possible."

How do we know what is right and wrong?  We are supposed to "test the Spirits."  If we know that the character of God is good and the fruit of the Spirit is Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control we can use that as the measure in which to gauge where someone's heart really is and if something is from God or not.  You will know a "tree by it's fruit" the Bible says.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: ANiceJewishBoy on October 30, 2013, 05:39:01 AM

Dude, there were no "Christians" before Jesus death, they were all Jews, the Christians persecution comes later.

And I just pointed a contradiction in the Bible, with the last words thing...

Christians = Believers that Jesus is Christ

There were Christians before his death, "Christ" simply means "the anointed one". If Jeshua vin Joseph is going to be called "Christ", then his followers (even during his life) can now be considered "Christians".

I didn't realize you were pointing out a contradiction, I thought you were telling me why it's ok to celebrate the death of a great person, as if it was good for the world. It's almost cannibalistic in nature, so it just gets at me that people are so adamant. Again, I didn't realize you were pointing something out. Sorry.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 30, 2013, 05:44:32 AM
Also, I should mention, that you are right that some people are deceived and think that they are following God but in reality they are not.  That is why the Bible is pretty clear about the fact that people will say "There is the Christ" but to be careful not to just follow anyone.  And the Bible warns of the Anti-Christ that will come and do miracles and even deceive the "elect if that were possible."

How do we know what is right and wrong?  We are supposed to "test the Spirits."  If we know that the character of God is good and the fruit of the Spirit is Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control we can use that as the measure in which to gauge where someone's heart really is and if something is from God or not.  You will know a "tree by it's fruit" the Bible says.

if this is supposed to be a response to me than i dont think you understood what i was saying. it was an argument for how it is imposable for the existence of good to be proven because even if some apparently supernatural creature floats down from the sky and performs seemingly imposable miracles, you still have no way of knowing whether its actually god and not an alien, or a hallucination, or a life form from another dimension ect...

even if there was a god, you could literally never know that for sure, and nothing god could ever do could allow you to know that for sure.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 30, 2013, 05:47:49 AM
No, I believe in a man named Jeshua vin Joseph who was not the savior of man kind, but sacrificed himself so that his followers may live in peace from the government.

When Jesus was killed, Rome felt it was safe to stop hunting down Christians so aggressively (at least for the time being).

And the belief contradicts itself. It says Jesus knew he was going to die, then Jesus is on the cross saying "Father, why have you forsaken me. In your heart forsaken me. In your eyes forsaken me. In your mind forsaken me."

He was not ready to die. He was not done. Stop acting like it was good that he died, it's gross that no one acknowledges his sadness at dying and potential if he had been allowed to live.

Wrong!!!!11


And you'll find another last words of Jesus.

Luke 23:46

Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

That is not wrong. After the death of Jesus they breathed a sigh of relief, as if it was almost over.

And just because he accepted it in the end, does not mean he knew about it before hand, or was finished living.
I'm quite sure Jesus knew of his death.  He knew if he stood up for love to the extent he did it would have dire consequences.  But this is what he wanted, for when he died he returned to the plane of heaven.

Also, a man at peace does not feel pain, only change, though he probably felt some I think he handled it well.

Quote
its actually god and not an alien, or a hallucination, or a life form from another dimension ect
Tomato tomoto.  All one.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: ANiceJewishBoy on October 30, 2013, 05:53:29 AM
Did you guys know that Jesus wasn't even considered "The Messiah" until after John the Baptist died (was decapitated)? And that if John the Baptist had not Baptized Jesus, he would have never been considered for the title.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: ANiceJewishBoy on October 30, 2013, 05:55:51 AM

I'm quite sure Jesus knew of his death.  He knew if he stood up for love to the extent he did it would have dire consequences.  But this is what he wanted, for when he died he returned to the plane of heaven.

Also, a man at peace does not feel pain, only change, though he probably felt some I think he handled it well.

Quote
its actually god and not an alien, or a hallucination, or a life form from another dimension ect
Tomato tomoto.  All one.

I'm quite sure Jesus had PLENTY of stuff that he thought he could get done being alive. A lot more than he could dead. The only thing he could do by dying that he could not do by staying alive was give his followers freedom from the watchful eyes of the government. And he gave his life that you might be "saved" in that manner. You are now free to worship god in accordance with the parables Jesus learned from his teacher.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 30, 2013, 05:57:45 AM
What could he do without him dying?  Him dying triggered people to believe him as he resurrected.  It triggered people to believe in him over the power structure as well.  It achieved a lot.

And that's just how it had to happen.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: ANiceJewishBoy on October 30, 2013, 06:00:53 AM
What could he do without him dying?  Him dying triggered people to believe him as he resurrected.  It triggered people to believe in him over the power structure as well.  It achieved a lot.

And that's just how it had to happen.

I'm saying HE could have done a lot more alive. Him. Not his followers.

And as I just got done saying in the other post, him dying allowed for all that other stuff. Which is why you all celebrate, but in celebration you should not fail to recognize what you LOST.

Don't dance on the mans grave is basically all I'm saying.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 06:03:46 AM
Also, I should mention, that you are right that some people are deceived and think that they are following God but in reality they are not.  That is why the Bible is pretty clear about the fact that people will say "There is the Christ" but to be careful not to just follow anyone.  And the Bible warns of the Anti-Christ that will come and do miracles and even deceive the "elect if that were possible."

How do we know what is right and wrong?  We are supposed to "test the Spirits."  If we know that the character of God is good and the fruit of the Spirit is Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control we can use that as the measure in which to gauge where someone's heart really is and if something is from God or not.  You will know a "tree by it's fruit" the Bible says.

if this is supposed to be a response to me than i dont think you understood what i was saying. it was an argument for how it is imposable for the existence of good to be proven because even if some apparently supernatural creature floats down from the sky and performs seemingly imposable miracles, you still have no way of knowing whether its actually god and not an alien, or a hallucination, or a life form from another dimension ect...

even if there was a god, you could literally never know that for sure, and nothing god could ever do could allow you to know that for sure.

Most Christians are very confident that they "Know" without a doubt God is real and they believe in Jesus so much so that they are even willing to risk their lives to be a Christian in places that do not allow for people to.  The reason is because the Spirit of God reveals Himself to us in a way that we cannot deny Him in our hearts.  The song Amazing Grace says, "I once was blind but now I see."  There is truth in that.  It is a spiritual thing that cannot be explained or logically understood.  It has to be experienced.  The only way for it to be experienced is for the person to go to God him/herself and pray and ask God to reveal himself.  Until then it cannot happen.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 30, 2013, 06:04:53 AM
Of course, I don't think people celebrate that he died but what legacy he left behind him.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 30, 2013, 06:16:04 AM
Also, I should mention, that you are right that some people are deceived and think that they are following God but in reality they are not.  That is why the Bible is pretty clear about the fact that people will say "There is the Christ" but to be careful not to just follow anyone.  And the Bible warns of the Anti-Christ that will come and do miracles and even deceive the "elect if that were possible."

How do we know what is right and wrong?  We are supposed to "test the Spirits."  If we know that the character of God is good and the fruit of the Spirit is Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control we can use that as the measure in which to gauge where someone's heart really is and if something is from God or not.  You will know a "tree by it's fruit" the Bible says.

if this is supposed to be a response to me than i dont think you understood what i was saying. it was an argument for how it is imposable for the existence of good to be proven because even if some apparently supernatural creature floats down from the sky and performs seemingly imposable miracles, you still have no way of knowing whether its actually god and not an alien, or a hallucination, or a life form from another dimension ect...

even if there was a god, you could literally never know that for sure, and nothing god could ever do could allow you to know that for sure.

Most Christians are very confident that they "Know" without a doubt God is real and they believe in Jesus so much so that they are even willing to risk their lives to be a Christian in places that do not allow for people to.  The reason is because the Spirit of God reveals Himself to us in a way that we cannot deny Him in our hearts.  The song Amazing Grace says, "I once was blind but now I see."  There is truth in that.  It is a spiritual thing that cannot be explained or logically understood.  It has to be experienced.  The only way for it to be experienced is for the person to go to God him/herself and pray and ask God to reveal himself.  Until then it cannot happen.

Do you make any other sorts of decisions in your life that way? Do you ever close your eyes at a stop light and use your heart to "feel" what color the light is? If you ever use your heart to "feel" whether or not food is expired instead of looking at the expiration label? If this is such a reliable method for separating what is true from what is false than why dont you use your heart to "feel" what stocks you should buy and become rich on the stock market? My guess is that you only use this tactic in situations where the negative consequences for being wrong are not immediate and not severe, but if it is such a reliable tactic than you should also apply it to situations where consequences are immediate and are severe as well. if you are not willing to use this tactic in situations where consequences are immediate and severe than perhaps you should consider admitting that it is in fact not a reliable way of separating fact from fiction.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: ANiceJewishBoy on October 30, 2013, 06:17:22 AM
Of course, I don't think people celebrate that he died but what legacy he left behind him.

I just wish we could look forward.

I don't think Jesus wanted us to become frozen in time. He would have wanted us to build temples to other great men. And challenge other great systems. And understand oppression.

Honestly, Christianity was a more valuable religion when they had it in the lion pits. We have passionate Christians today, but they do not know what the word oppression really means. And I know that statement is over-general, but I mean to say that it is more widespread within the faith than it should be.

The Jewish community understands oppression. Understands austerity. Understands what it means to be auspicious. The Christian churches just try to get bigger and bigger and bigger.

I am not TRYING to compare the two, I just naturally do. But you can see the difference. The Jewish community is supportive in a much larger way than the standard Christian families (especially in the cities, where Christians lack structure that is not completely centered around economy).

Like, compare the acceptance of Hebrew people around the world, compared to the acceptance of Free Masons (mainly protestant and sometimes even Mormon members). And Free Masons don't have a history of murder for god and conquering everything they see (unless you automatically tie them to the Templars, which some people say you can. And unless you consider the current priorities of the US gov).


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on October 30, 2013, 10:17:17 AM
Certain parts of religion such as xmas, diwali, eid etc are good and are enjoyed by millions.

Even atheists enjoy xmas with friends and family because it is something that people tend to celebrate regardless of whether they are devout church goers.

Yeah, I do celebrate the Winter Solstice with a good dinner, and enjoy the gifts. :D

True, there is nothing wrong with good old pagan traditions as long as we understand that they are such.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: M3n70r on October 30, 2013, 11:29:46 AM
nah, never heard of him. Is he selling some godspeed ASICs or hashing on his own?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 30, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

Wrong!!!

There are like 2 billion Christians in the planet, not a "narrow" road, when I was born there was something like 95% Christian population in my country, now there are 80%, how the fuck is that narrow?


Dude, there were no "Christians" before Jesus death, they were all Jews, the Christians persecution comes later.

And I just pointed a contradiction in the Bible, with the last words thing...

Christians = Believers that Jesus is Christ

There were Christians before his death, "Christ" simply means "the anointed one". If Jeshua vin Joseph is going to be called "Christ", then his followers (even during his life) can now be considered "Christians".

I didn't realize you were pointing out a contradiction, I thought you were telling me why it's ok to celebrate the death of a great person, as if it was good for the world. It's almost cannibalistic in nature, so it just gets at me that people are so adamant. Again, I didn't realize you were pointing something out. Sorry.

There were quite a few Christs at the time, I suppose it was good business to be a messiah, and yes the apostles were persecuted by Paul, and then he became Christian too, but this was after Jesus death.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 30, 2013, 03:00:32 PM
I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

Wrong!!!

There are like 2 billion Christians in the planet, not a "narrow" road, when I was born there was something like 95% Christian population in my country, now there are 80%, how the fuck is that narrow?
...

What I think she's implying, which you would likely agree with ... is that not many Christians have it figured out....


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: rampalija on October 30, 2013, 03:06:50 PM
I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

Wrong!!!

There are like 2 billion Christians in the planet, not a "narrow" road, when I was born there was something like 95% Christian population in my country, now there are 80%, how the fuck is that narrow?
...

What I think she's implying, which you would likely agree with ... is that not many Christians have it figured out....

I bellive and i dont give a fuck for thoose who doesent


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 03:12:39 PM
I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

Wrong!!!

There are like 2 billion Christians in the planet, not a "narrow" road, when I was born there was something like 95% Christian population in my country, now there are 80%, how the fuck is that narrow?
...

What I think she's implying, which you would likely agree with ... is that not many Christians have it figured out....

I bellive and i dont give a fuck for thoose who doesent

And we wonder why Christians are not liked? 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 03:17:09 PM
I think we might be a little outnumbered her OP.  Of course the Bible says "narrow is the road and few will find it" so I guess it is to be expected.  Kind of like the rest of the world does not really get "bitcoin" many people don't "get Jesus" but they have not really searched.  Or they think that they have it all figured out.

Wrong!!!

There are like 2 billion Christians in the planet, not a "narrow" road, when I was born there was something like 95% Christian population in my country, now there are 80%, how the fuck is that narrow?


The road is narrow and many so called "Christians" are not even walking on the road even though they think they are.

Just because someone says that they are "Christian" does not mean that they are.  Many will say "Lord I did all these things in Your name and He will say, depart from me you evil doers I never knew you."

To be a true Christians requires much more than just joining a "club" or attending religious services.  It is about a change of heart, so that we know Jesus in an intimate way and want to serve Him wholeheartedly in everything we do and we become changed from the inside out.  The way you can really test to see if someone is a Christian or not is by the "fruit" in their life.  Are they loving, kind, gentle, patient, slow to anger?  These sorts of things are the "fruit" that the Bible talks about and that you will know a "tree by it's fruit."


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 30, 2013, 03:26:22 PM
.....
To be a true Christians requires much more than just joining a "club" or attending religious services.  It is about a change of heart, so that we know Jesus in an intimate way and want to serve Him wholeheartedly in everything we do and we become changed from the inside out.  The way you can really test to see if someone is a Christian or not is by the "fruit" in their life.  Are they loving, kind, gentle, patient, slow to anger?  These sorts of things are the "fruit" that the Bible talks about and that you will know a "tree by it's fruit."
Typically an athiest will look at something like a creed of christianity, and note the various impossible events therein which one is asked to believe in - that will be how he frames the argument as to what a christian is, rather than looking at the introspective tests as you've mentioned.

How do you respond to that?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 30, 2013, 03:32:53 PM
.....
To be a true Christians requires much more than just joining a "club" or attending religious services.  It is about a change of heart, so that we know Jesus in an intimate way and want to serve Him wholeheartedly in everything we do and we become changed from the inside out.  The way you can really test to see if someone is a Christian or not is by the "fruit" in their life.  Are they loving, kind, gentle, patient, slow to anger?  These sorts of things are the "fruit" that the Bible talks about and that you will know a "tree by it's fruit."
Typically an athiest will look at something like a creed of christianity, and note the various impossible events therein which one is asked to believe in - that will be how he frames the argument as to what a christian is, rather than looking at the introspective tests as you've mentioned.

Yes, we leave the discussion of what is a "true Christian" to be made between them.

As far as I know, if someone says "I'm a Christian" he his a Christian...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: anonymous_acc on October 30, 2013, 03:33:49 PM
I believe.

My proof of existence of Christ: If there was nobody like Christ, why there is so much noise about his deal ??


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on October 30, 2013, 03:35:26 PM
.....
To be a true Christians requires much more than just joining a "club" or attending religious services.  It is about a change of heart, so that we know Jesus in an intimate way and want to serve Him wholeheartedly in everything we do and we become changed from the inside out.  The way you can really test to see if someone is a Christian or not is by the "fruit" in their life.  Are they loving, kind, gentle, patient, slow to anger?  These sorts of things are the "fruit" that the Bible talks about and that you will know a "tree by it's fruit."
Typically an athiest will look at something like a creed of christianity, and note the various impossible events therein which one is asked to believe in - that will be how he frames the argument as to what a christian is, rather than looking at the introspective tests as you've mentioned.

How do you respond to that?

There are "impossible" events in the Bible for sure.  A few examples: the parting of the red sea, the virgin birth, the fact that Jesus rose again.  All of this is a mystery and it takes Faith.  We can use logic to deduce that there is evidence in the world that supports Christianity and that Jesus really did live.  There is plenty of historical evidence that lends credence to the Bible if one really wants to study it.  But miracles are just that- Miracles.  I will not try to argue that it is difficult for someone logical and intelligent to believe but this is why the Bible says, "I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn't receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it."  





Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 03:58:08 PM
I only believe in things that have good evidence and/or logcally consistent arguments to back them up, i have not yet encountered such evidence and/or logically consistent arguments for any religion. I am however uncompromisingly open minded so if you felt so inclined as to share with me the evidence and/or arguments that convinced you, and if the evidence evidence is good and/or the arguments are sound than i'll certainly climb on board.

Well, then you may want to read The Case for Christ.  It was written by a journalist attempting to disprove that Jesus was who he said he was using the types of methods he used to find truth from eyewitnesses and reports about news stories:

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Investigation-ebook/dp/B000FC2KEM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1383148637&sr=8-5&keywords=evidence+demands+a+verdict



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:03:01 PM
I'm uncompromisingly open minded. If you can show me good evidence than I'll climb on board. So what is your evidence?
Evidence for what????

If you refer to 'a belief in Jesus Christ' then you refer to a faith based dogma.  Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process.

I would note here that a personal stand based on faith/belief can be much, much stronger than one based on 'evidence'.

IIRC Jesus himself scorned those who demanded 'proof' and who could not or would not take matters on faith.  Not in the mood to go look it up, but the question posed was not his nature as 'son of god or man/god'.  Rather the question would have been related to 'the Creator' or such.



This was in response to religious leaders wanting him to perform miracles at their whim:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt%2016&version=NIV

He pointed out that if someone refuses to accept miracles outright, there is no point in performing more of them.  If you are resistant to the idea of an all-powerful God that can bend time, space and physics to His will on occasion, then there is no point in continuing to try to convince you about Jesus, you are already convinced.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:06:17 PM
I grew up learning about Jesus from my family and they were always obsessed with the second coming. Once you've believed that for so long, picturing Jesus shooting from the sky on a fiery chariot, you kind've slack on life, at least some of my family did. Couldn't embrace the rapture element...
A fiery CHARIOT?

Aw come on.

At least let's give him a 1968 Camaro, yellow with black stripes, twin  turbocharged.

It could be a 1968 Camaro with flames on the side...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:09:03 PM
No, I am not really all that familiar with any groups who believe there will be a 'one world currency'.
So you're a christian has no idea what the bible says.  Awesome.

As far as 'groups' that believe there will be a one world currency, pretty much every church on planet earth, for starters.

Here it is from Revelation:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2013:16-18&version=NIV


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:11:01 PM
It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)

How safe will you feel when you are standing in front of Jesus on the throne trying to explain why it was OK to mock his followers for decades?

Hope you're right that Christianity is wrong...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:12:45 PM
No, I am not really all that familiar with any groups who believe there will be a 'one world currency'.
So you're a christian has no idea what the bible says.  Awesome.

As far as 'groups' that believe there will be a one world currency, pretty much every church on planet earth, for starters.
No they do not.  You refer to a verse in Revelations having to do with the number 666.  There are many interpretations to that and many regard Revelations as totally stupid.

It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)
I agree 100%.  I also believe a lot of media personalities and a lot of individuals who make fun of Christians but don't even think of giving equal time and equal ridicule to muslims are spineless, gutless wimps and intellectually dishonest.

....is there anything wrong with this statement? -> "i believe that i am". if not than, using the socratic method, i think it could be used to break your claim "Both the terms belief, and faith imply that evidence is not used in the decision process."

I think Christians might look at things such as the wonders of life as 'evidence', but with exceptions of some of them who are idiots and misunderstand their own faith, they are basically, 'the faithful'.

Faith, and belief, are central issues.  "evidence", is secondary or tertiary...

Yes, there is a lot wrong with the statement "I believe that I am."  Let me correct it to "I am."
Or how about I am what I believe?
No, you are not what you believe.  But beliefs can take a person a long way toward becoming better.

Or worse.



Does making fun of the beliefs of others make you better?  Or worse?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:14:50 PM
No, I believe in a man named Jeshua vin Joseph who was not the savior of man kind, but sacrificed himself so that his followers may live in peace from the government.

When Jesus was killed, Rome felt it was safe to stop hunting down Christians so aggressively (at least for the time being).

And the belief contradicts itself. It says Jesus knew he was going to die, then Jesus is on the cross saying "Father, why have you forsaken me. In your heart forsaken me. In your eyes forsaken me. In your mind forsaken me."

He was not ready to die. He was not done. Stop acting like it was good that he died, it's gross that no one acknowledges his sadness at dying and potential if he had been allowed to live.

Christians believe that he felt forsaken because he had taken the sin of mankind upon himself.  And since he was previously close to God on earth, he felt the distance from God that sin causes for the first time on a massive scale.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: qwertyGuy on October 30, 2013, 04:19:53 PM
I believe.

My proof of existence of Christ: If there was nobody like Christ, why there is so much noise about his deal ??


No doubt Jesus Christ existed. No doubt he changed life of millions.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 30, 2013, 04:22:37 PM
It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)

How safe will you feel when you are standing in front of Jesus on the throne trying to explain why it was OK to mock his followers for decades?

Hope you're right that Christianity is wrong...

As safe as you will feel when in front of the great Flying Spaghetti Monster trying to explain why you believed in a fake religion and not in His Holy Noodles.

Hope you're right that Pastafarianism is wrong...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:23:51 PM
Did you guys know that Jesus wasn't even considered "The Messiah" until after John the Baptist died (was decapitated)? And that if John the Baptist had not Baptized Jesus, he would have never been considered for the title.

I'm pretty sure that all the Messianic prophecies he fulfilled would be enough for people to believe that he's the Messiah:

http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsandlists/a/Prophecies-Jesus.htm

And the big one is in Daniel.  If you calculate it out, it means that the Messiah would be killed ("cut off") around 28 AD.  Jesus was 33 years old when he died and scholars now believe he was born in 5BC.  So if Jesus wasn't the Messiah, someone else that died in 28 AD was.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitchicksHusband on October 30, 2013, 04:28:16 PM
It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)

How safe will you feel when you are standing in front of Jesus on the throne trying to explain why it was OK to mock his followers for decades?

Hope you're right that Christianity is wrong...

As safe as you will feel when in front of the great Flying Spaghetti Monster trying to explain why you believed in a fake religion and not in His Holy Noodles.

Hope you're right that Pastafarianism is wrong...

Let's see.  One is backed by the best-selling book every year without fail since the printing press was invented with over a billion followers worldwide and whose life was so transformative that we measure dates by it and the other is backed by an atheist trying to make a point to a school board 7 years ago.  I think I'll take my chances with Christ.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on October 30, 2013, 04:31:57 PM


Let's see.  One is backed by the best-selling book every year without fail since the printing press was invented with over a billion followers worldwide and whose life was so transformative that we measure dates by it and the other is backed by an atheist trying to make a point to a school board 7 years ago.  I think I'll take my chances with Christ.

Since when something being popular has made it right?

If Islam overtakes the christians do you convert to it because it must be the more advanced and correct belief just because it has more followers?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 30, 2013, 04:36:09 PM
It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)

How safe will you feel when you are standing in front of Jesus on the throne trying to explain why it was OK to mock his followers for decades?

Hope you're right that Christianity is wrong...

As safe as you will feel when in front of the great Flying Spaghetti Monster trying to explain why you believed in a fake religion and not in His Holy Noodles.

Hope you're right that Pastafarianism is wrong...

Let's see.  One is backed by the best-selling book every year without fail since the printing press was invented with over a billion followers worldwide and whose life was so transformative that we measure dates by it and the other is backed by an atheist trying to make a point to a school board 7 years ago.  I think I'll take my chances with Christ.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2012/books

Better convert to sadomasochism then.

Plus Ad Populum Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum).


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on October 30, 2013, 04:42:55 PM
All religions are is different flavors/languages to describe god.  It matters not the religion, what matters is if you believe.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 30, 2013, 07:45:16 PM
I grew up learning about Jesus from my family and they were always obsessed with the second coming. Once you've believed that for so long, picturing Jesus shooting from the sky on a fiery chariot, you kind've slack on life, at least some of my family did. Couldn't embrace the rapture element...
A fiery CHARIOT?

Aw come on.

At least let's give him a 1968 Camaro, yellow with black stripes, twin  turbocharged.

It could be a 1968 Camaro with flames on the side...
NO!!!  That's totally unacceptable.  I mean like, forget it all then.  Painted flames on the side is stoopid. 

I want flames like this thing is some Apollo moon rocket.  Then we be talking.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 30, 2013, 07:48:47 PM
It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)

How safe will you feel when you are standing in front of Jesus on the throne trying to explain why it was OK to mock his followers for decades?

Hope you're right that Christianity is wrong...

As safe as you will feel when in front of the great Flying Spaghetti Monster trying to explain why you believed in a fake religion and not in His Holy Noodles.

Hope you're right that Pastafarianism is wrong...

Let's see.  One is backed by the best-selling book every year without fail since the printing press was invented with over a billion followers worldwide and whose life was so transformative that we measure dates by it and the other is backed by an atheist trying to make a point to a school board 7 years ago.  I think I'll take my chances with Christ.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2012/books

Better convert to sadomasochism then.

Plus Ad Populum Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum).

Two good points.  But he had a good question:

Does making fun of the beliefs of others make you better?  Or worse?

   


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on October 30, 2013, 08:37:06 PM
I only believe in things that have good evidence and/or logcally consistent arguments to back them up, i have not yet encountered such evidence and/or logically consistent arguments for any religion. I am however uncompromisingly open minded so if you felt so inclined as to share with me the evidence and/or arguments that convinced you, and if the evidence evidence is good and/or the arguments are sound than i'll certainly climb on board.

Well, then you may want to read The Case for Christ.  It was written by a journalist attempting to disprove that Jesus was who he said he was using the types of methods he used to find truth from eyewitnesses and reports about news stories:

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Investigation-ebook/dp/B000FC2KEM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1383148637&sr=8-5&keywords=evidence+demands+a+verdict



i dont need to read a book, just tell me what the evidence is and link the original sources.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 30, 2013, 08:48:36 PM
I only believe in things that have good evidence and/or logcally consistent arguments to back them up, i have not yet encountered such evidence and/or logically consistent arguments for any religion. I am however uncompromisingly open minded so if you felt so inclined as to share with me the evidence and/or arguments that convinced you, and if the evidence evidence is good and/or the arguments are sound than i'll certainly climb on board.

Well, then you may want to read The Case for Christ.  It was written by a journalist attempting to disprove that Jesus was who he said he was using the types of methods he used to find truth from eyewitnesses and reports about news stories:

http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Investigation-ebook/dp/B000FC2KEM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1383148637&sr=8-5&keywords=evidence+demands+a+verdict



i dont need to read a book, just tell me what the evidence is and link the original sources.

I don't know that either of the following two books claims or subjects  are adequately covered on the web.

So just to confuse things further...

Here's a classic book that shows how Jesus & co-conspirators could have pulled off the biggest scam in history - no dying on the cross, etc...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Passover-Plot-Special-Anniversary/dp/1932857095/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383165821&sr=8-1&keywords=passover+plot

And here's my recommendation, this is an unbiased scholarly look at evidence that Jesus may or may not have existed.

Arthur:  Ehrman

http://www.amazon.com/The-Historical-Jesus-2-Parts/dp/B0018QJ32G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383165976&sr=8-1&keywords=historical+jesus+ehrman



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on October 30, 2013, 09:04:13 PM
It feels so good to know it is OK to feel safe making fun of Christians, no mater what. ;)

How safe will you feel when you are standing in front of Jesus on the throne trying to explain why it was OK to mock his followers for decades?

Hope you're right that Christianity is wrong...

As safe as you will feel when in front of the great Flying Spaghetti Monster trying to explain why you believed in a fake religion and not in His Holy Noodles.

Hope you're right that Pastafarianism is wrong...

Let's see.  One is backed by the best-selling book every year without fail since the printing press was invented with over a billion followers worldwide and whose life was so transformative that we measure dates by it and the other is backed by an atheist trying to make a point to a school board 7 years ago.  I think I'll take my chances with Christ.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2012/books

Better convert to sadomasochism then.

Plus Ad Populum Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum).

Two good points.  But he had a good question:

Does making fun of the beliefs of others make you better?  Or worse?

   

Ridiculous beliefs deserve to be ridiculed.

Don't forget too much people suffered and died for not following those ridiculous beliefs, atheists have been persecuted for way too long, killed, burned, tortured, dismembered, banished, shunned, associated with immorality, robbed of their possessions, chased away from their property, but now there's free speech and those people better have thick skin if they still maintain those same ridiculous beliefs.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on October 31, 2013, 06:54:35 AM



1- When I posted, I did not really expect this
thread to become so popular, but wow,
hey, if people like to discuss this,
then that is fine with me.

2- I find that I am not really able to convince
people to have faith or belief in jesus.
But 'when it pleases God, then he will reveal
his son to you
'

3- I thank everyone who is replying who has
faith in jesus christ, for staying on topic.

4- I am hopeful that the bitcoin community
will be supportive of my new website at
saveme.info and drop by to give a little
to one or more of the people who are asking
for some bitcoin donations, or come on by and
get your own bitcoin donation webpage if you
want.

Bitcoin donations can be received anonymously at
saveme.info or you can chose to reveal who you
are, if you want to. its up to you.


You have me working for you, to try and advertise
the site, and thereby when people come to the site,
they might click on your link, and read your story,
and they might have compassion and give some
bitcoins to you.

Thank you again to everyone for replying
and remember that

Jesus Christ Is Lord
And God Raised Jesus from the Dead on The third day

Jesus said: 'If I go and come again, then you will
know that you will do the same
'

 Praise the Lord :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on October 31, 2013, 12:07:39 PM
....
Ridiculous beliefs deserve to be ridiculed.

Don't forget too much people suffered and died for not following those ridiculous beliefs, atheists have been persecuted for way too long, killed, burned, tortured, dismembered, banished, shunned, associated with immorality, robbed of their possessions, chased away from their property, but now there's free speech and those people better have thick skin if they still maintain those same ridiculous beliefs.
The problem with that point of view is that for most of history, atheism was ridiculous.  The invention of the microscope changed that.  Before then, spontaneous generation of life was obvious and this 'proved' the existence of supernatural phenomena as part of and parcel of life.  Hence, the spiritual world existed.  It was only a question of one or many gods, but that question could not have rationally had an option of 0 gods.

So for me to accept your initial premise means that I must accept as rational the past ridicule and suffering of atheists.  Which I do not.

You seem to be advocating a 'what goes around comes around' or an 'eye for an eye'.

But (some of the Christians on the forum might comment on this) that seems to be contrary to the fundamental teachings of the New Testament.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mitchell on October 31, 2013, 12:08:35 PM
I am not digging your web design. Don't believe in Jesus Christ or God either.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on October 31, 2013, 11:21:33 PM
Reply here if you believe in Jesus Christ.

Hi, I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord,

and that Jesus was raised from the dead on the third day

I also believe that if you say that with your mouth,
and believe it in your heart,

Then you will be saved.


Read my Sig, and you see that I am a website designer, but I am also thinking
about getting some backlinks to some Jesus Christ believing websites.
Maybe we can exchange links if you have a Jesus Christ website?
And if it is also a bitcoin site somehow, then all the better. :)




Please read what I said at first, and then you will realize that some of you are posting off-topic here.
This is not a thread for debating with fools about whether God is, or whether Jesus is, or not.

And I quote from the Holy Bible: 'The Fool Has Said In His Heart, There Is No God'


What did I say in my first post?
Reply here in this thread if you believe in Jesus Christ

Not only are some people blind and deaf, but they also cannot read, nor understand. :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 01, 2013, 01:26:40 AM
Please read what I said at first, and then you will realize that some of you are posting off-topic here.
This is not a thread for debating with fools about whether God is, or whether Jesus is, or not.

And I quote from the Holy Bible: 'The Fool Has Said In His Heart, There Is No God'


What did I say in my first post?
Reply here in this thread if you believe in Jesus Christ

Not only are some people blind and deaf, but they also cannot read, nor understand. :)

Ah, quoting the Bible, here's my favorite:

Ezekiel 23:19-21

Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 01, 2013, 03:01:56 AM
Please read what I said at first, and then you will realize that some of you are posting off-topic here.
This is not a thread for debating with fools about whether God is, or whether Jesus is, or not.

And I quote from the Holy Bible: 'The Fool Has Said In His Heart, There Is No God'


What did I say in my first post?
Reply here in this thread if you believe in Jesus Christ

Not only are some people blind and deaf, but they also cannot read, nor understand. :)

Ah, quoting the Bible, here's my favorite:

Ezekiel 23:19-21

Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.
Not bad, not bad...

I have one that I made up, which in my posting please understand I do not mean it to apply to you (it doesn't), but it simply seems like something that at times, needs to be said.

It goes like this.

"Verily, I say unto thee that twice milenia in the past, no man and certainly no god-man walked the Earth commanding others to be complete assholes."

Now it happens I just finished watching a great movie, with many biblical scriptures of great import, and it will take me a while to comprehend this movie and the many hidden meanings.

Pulp Fiction...



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitcoinBarrel on November 01, 2013, 03:00:45 PM
Ark of the Covenant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIwjYN4JVo


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 01, 2013, 03:14:45 PM
....
Ridiculous beliefs deserve to be ridiculed.

Don't forget too much people suffered and died for not following those ridiculous beliefs, atheists have been persecuted for way too long, killed, burned, tortured, dismembered, banished, shunned, associated with immorality, robbed of their possessions, chased away from their property, but now there's free speech and those people better have thick skin if they still maintain those same ridiculous beliefs.
The problem with that point of view is that for most of history, atheism was ridiculous.  The invention of the microscope changed that.  Before then, spontaneous generation of life was obvious and this 'proved' the existence of supernatural phenomena as part of and parcel of life.  Hence, the spiritual world existed.  It was only a question of one or many gods, but that question could not have rationally had an option of 0 gods.

So for me to accept your initial premise means that I must accept as rational the past ridicule and suffering of atheists.  Which I do not.

You seem to be advocating a 'what goes around comes around' or an 'eye for an eye'.

But (some of the Christians on the forum might comment on this) that seems to be contrary to the fundamental teachings of the New Testament.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm not advocating an "eye for eye".

When the first guy invented the first god, I'm sure there was another guy next to him that said I don't believe what you're saying, there have been atheists as long as there have been theists.

Epicurus (341–270 B.C.E.)

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

And yes, now we have science, but there are people that still maintain beliefs that go against reality, beliefs from the bronze age, and that is ridiculous and dangerous!


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 01, 2013, 04:08:27 PM
.....I'm not advocating an "eye for eye".

When the first guy invented the first god, I'm sure there was another guy next to him that said I don't believe what you're saying, there have been atheists as long as there have been theists.

Epicurus (341–270 B.C.E.)

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

And yes, now we have science, but there are people that still maintain beliefs that go against reality, beliefs from the bronze age, and that is ridiculous and dangerous!
It's not that there were not athiests, but that they existed in a differing context.  Such an athiest might have disagreed that there was a 'supreme being', but he never would have doubted natural spirits of the forest, or of the storm, the ocean, or the obvious nature of spontaneous creation.  Thus, he wasn't even an athiest as you think of it today.

In such historical times, the arguments were more polytheistic vs theistic, one versus three on the godhead, so forth and so on. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 01, 2013, 04:57:47 PM
.....I'm not advocating an "eye for eye".

When the first guy invented the first god, I'm sure there was another guy next to him that said I don't believe what you're saying, there have been atheists as long as there have been theists.

Epicurus (341–270 B.C.E.)

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

And yes, now we have science, but there are people that still maintain beliefs that go against reality, beliefs from the bronze age, and that is ridiculous and dangerous!
It's not that there were not athiests, but that they existed in a differing context.  Such an athiest might have disagreed that there was a 'supreme being', but he never would have doubted natural spirits of the forest, or of the storm, the ocean, or the obvious nature of spontaneous creation.  Thus, he wasn't even an athiest as you think of it today.

In such historical times, the arguments were more polytheistic vs theistic, one versus three on the godhead, so forth and so on. 

Atheism is just a specific branch of skepticism.

Buddhism is technically an atheist religion and they have all sort of magical stuff.

My point was, skeptics have been persecuted for ages for speaking against outrageous claims, and now we can speak freely and educate, mock, make fun of, the ridiculous stuff people still believe, I don't care if they believe a middle-eastern Jew is there savior, or astrology or ancient aliens, if it is ridiculous it has to be pointed out as such, people need to gain some critical thinking.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 01, 2013, 05:48:36 PM
.....I'm not advocating an "eye for eye".

When the first guy invented the first god, I'm sure there was another guy next to him that said I don't believe what you're saying, there have been atheists as long as there have been theists.

Epicurus (341–270 B.C.E.)

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

And yes, now we have science, but there are people that still maintain beliefs that go against reality, beliefs from the bronze age, and that is ridiculous and dangerous!
It's not that there were not athiests, but that they existed in a differing context.  Such an athiest might have disagreed that there was a 'supreme being', but he never would have doubted natural spirits of the forest, or of the storm, the ocean, or the obvious nature of spontaneous creation.  Thus, he wasn't even an athiest as you think of it today.

In such historical times, the arguments were more polytheistic vs theistic, one versus three on the godhead, so forth and so on. 

Atheism is just a specific branch of skepticism.

Buddhism is technically an atheist religion and they have all sort of magical stuff.

My point was, skeptics have been persecuted for ages for speaking against outrageous claims, and now we can speak freely and educate, mock, make fun of, the ridiculous stuff people still believe, I don't care if they believe a middle-eastern Jew is there savior, or astrology or ancient aliens, if it is ridiculous it has to be pointed out as such, people need to gain some critical thinking.
I'm skeptical about all that.  Evidence exists that atheists are not so terribly rational.  In the US, about 80% are Democrat and go along with those progressive agendas.  They replace - to what extent may be debatable, yes - believe in an all powerful god with a belief in an all powerful government.  I think this happens at a subconscious level, after a vacuum exists from taking away the god-stuff - someone like Obama comes in and fills in the gap.

We've all seen that happen.   I'm sketching out the details here, and not trying to impute the negativity to this phenomena that it might seem.  Rather I see it as more like a human 'need for myth/mysticism/spiritual' which will get filled one way or another.

Obviously, a 'need for myth' is opposed to rationality.

The reverse of this is worth noting too, it is not uncommon to see very sharp scientists who have a humble and honest faith in one or another form of religion.

I can't see anything wrong or illogical with that.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Unluckyduck on November 02, 2013, 12:16:59 AM
Heh, religious nuts.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 02, 2013, 12:41:32 AM
I'm skeptical about all that.  Evidence exists that atheists are not so terribly rational.  In the US, about 80% are Democrat and go along with those progressive agendas.  They replace - to what extent may be debatable, yes - believe in an all powerful god with a belief in an all powerful government.  I think this happens at a subconscious level, after a vacuum exists from taking away the god-stuff - someone like Obama comes in and fills in the gap.

I don't care about democrats or republicans, like I said Buddhism is technically an atheistic religion and they have all sorts of magical thinking, I was making the point for the specific branch of skepticism, atheism.

We've all seen that happen.   I'm sketching out the details here, and not trying to impute the negativity to this phenomena that it might seem.  Rather I see it as more like a human 'need for myth/mysticism/spiritual' which will get filled one way or another.

Obviously, a 'need for myth' is opposed to rationality.

Yes, our brain evolved to believe, to obey authority, it is an evolutionary advantage and now we can understand that, no need for god of the thunders and gods of love and all that crap, are you familiar with this? I can elaborate a little more...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: interlagos on November 02, 2013, 12:46:02 PM
Maybe these short videos will help shed some light on the matter:

"Did Jesus Christ Actually Exist?" (3:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbUL6XsUQI

"Judas's Betrayal of Jesus" (1:17)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuXgg1pFp3g

PS: the total length is in (min:sec)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 02, 2013, 02:41:10 PM
....
Yes, our brain evolved to believe, to obey authority, it is an evolutionary advantage and now we can understand that, no need for god of the thunders and gods of love and all that crap, are you familiar with this? I can elaborate a little more...
What???

No god of thunder?

No gods of love?

By Odin I strike you down, blasphemer now blind to the visions of Venus and Aphrodite.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 02, 2013, 04:01:07 PM
I'm skeptical about all that.  Evidence exists that atheists are not so terribly rational.  In the US, about 80% are Democrat and go along with those progressive agendas.  They replace - to what extent may be debatable, yes - believe in an all powerful god with a belief in an all powerful government.  I think this happens at a subconscious level, after a vacuum exists from taking away the god-stuff - someone like Obama comes in and fills in the gap.

I don't care about democrats or republicans, like I said Buddhism is technically an atheistic religion and they have all sorts of magical thinking, I was making the point for the specific branch of skepticism, atheism.
This is news to me, I was not under that impression.  What's the deal with Shiva, lord of consciousness.  Sounds like god to me.

Nevermind, that's hinduism.  But Buddhists do believe in devas, higher dimensional creatures, and some believe in eternal Buddha which sounds like eternal consciousness to me.  It all seems way to spiritual to reject the existence of a supreme consciousness.  They believe in nirvana too, that's what I experienced when I ascended to the 10th dimension.  Seems rather odd a Buddhist wouldn't believe in god.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 02, 2013, 05:31:56 PM
....
Yes, our brain evolved to believe, to obey authority, it is an evolutionary advantage and now we can understand that, no need for god of the thunders and gods of love and all that crap, are you familiar with this? I can elaborate a little more...
What???

No god of thunder?

No gods of love?

By Odin I strike you down, blasphemer now blind to the visions of Venus and Aphrodite.

Haha, very funny. :)

But it's really an amazing thing how we are wired to believe.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 02, 2013, 09:26:49 PM
....
Yes, our brain evolved to believe, to obey authority, it is an evolutionary advantage and now we can understand that, no need for god of the thunders and gods of love and all that crap, are you familiar with this? I can elaborate a little more...
What???

No god of thunder?

No gods of love?

By Odin I strike you down, blasphemer now blind to the visions of Venus and Aphrodite.

Haha, very funny. :)

But it's really an amazing thing how we are wired to believe.
Look, a 'need for myth' must be stronger than a need for rationality, or perhaps both coexist in any individual human at differing or the same times, or perhaps the exist to differing degrees in different humans.  

I guess what I was saying is that the assertion that 'we don't need myth' may actually be false, then the person who is inclined to need it finds it nonetheless when he or she rejects religion.  They find it in government, or in science, or who knows where.  They become radical ecology freaks worried about the End of Gaia as we Know it, the Apocalpse of Doom, the hurricanes, the 20 foot high wall of water that is coming for us.

Some of them, you know they'd be less annoying if they'd just stuck with religion instead of 'progressing'....

Humans are of byzantine complexity, and can be one thing at one moment and seem to be something completely different the next.  The religion of Atheism nonwithstanding...I suggest then that you can only be truly free if you reject, along with the traditional religions, the religion of Atheism and other modern progressive delusions.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 02, 2013, 10:03:07 PM
Look, a 'need for myth' must be stronger than a need for rationality, or perhaps both coexist in any individual human at differing or the same times, or perhaps the exist to differing degrees in different humans.  

I guess what I was saying is that the assertion that 'we don't need myth' may actually be false, then the person who is inclined to need it finds it nonetheless when he or she rejects religion.  They find it in government, or in science, or who knows where.  They become radical ecology freaks worried about the End of Gaia as we Know it, the Apocalpse of Doom, the hurricanes, the 20 foot high wall of water that is coming for us.

Some of them, you know they'd be less annoying if they'd just stuck with religion instead of 'progressing'....

Humans are of byzantine complexity, and can be one thing at one moment and seem to be something completely different the next.  The religion of Atheism nonwithstanding...I suggest then that you can only be truly free if you reject, along with the traditional religions, the religion of Atheism and other modern progressive delusions.

You seem to be confused about atheism. Atheism is not a religion in the same way not believing in unicorns is not a religion or not collecting stamps is not a hobby, there are atheistic religions like Buddhism, but atheism in itself is not a religion.

Yes, people believe in all kind of strange stuff, that's a consequence of our evolution because only the paranoids survive, for millions of years our species evolved somewhere in Africa, it was a hostile environment and the individuals who were not "paranoid" got out of the pool gene.

Here's a classic example, two individuals, 100000 years ago, there's a noise in the grass, it can be a lion, it can be the wind, the paranoid individual runs for a tree, the relaxed one stays, if it's the wind the two survived, the one who run lost a few calories, not a big cost, but if it is a lion the one who stays got eaten and his genes got out of the pool gene.

The cost for a false negative is far greater than the cost for a false positive, and the individuals who tend to believe in the occult agent pass their genes.

The same way with obeying authority, specially parents, if a parent says to a child don't pick that snake or don't eat those berries the individuals who obey tend to live longer and pass their genes.

If we had evolved in an environment without big predators, like the Galapagos where animals don't run from you because there are no big predators and no need for being paranoid, we probably would not have this characteristic.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 02, 2013, 10:46:09 PM
Look, a 'need for myth' must be stronger than a need for rationality, or perhaps both coexist in any individual human at differing or the same times, or perhaps the exist to differing degrees in different humans.  

I guess what I was saying is that the assertion that 'we don't need myth' may actually be false, then the person who is inclined to need it finds it nonetheless when he or she rejects religion.  They find it in government, or in science, or who knows where.  They become radical ecology freaks worried about the End of Gaia as we Know it, the Apocalpse of Doom, the hurricanes, the 20 foot high wall of water that is coming for us.

Some of them, you know they'd be less annoying if they'd just stuck with religion instead of 'progressing'....

Humans are of byzantine complexity, and can be one thing at one moment and seem to be something completely different the next.  The religion of Atheism nonwithstanding...I suggest then that you can only be truly free if you reject, along with the traditional religions, the religion of Atheism and other modern progressive delusions.

You seem to be confused about atheism. Atheism is not a religion in the same way not believing in unicorns is not a religion or not collecting stamps is not a hobby, there are atheistic religions like Buddhism, but atheism in itself is not a religion....
It certainly can be a religion, believed in with faith that it is true, by devout and pius true believers. 

In fact, it necessarily has it's origins in systems of belief.  Leaving aside that you could have no atheism without religion, atheism in the days before microscopes could only exist on faith.

"I can't prove it but I just KNOW there is no spontaneous creation!!!  It can't be that spirits go into matter and make it come alive!"

That's faith and belief if it ever was.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: kentrolla on November 02, 2013, 10:49:49 PM
I was agonist all my life until I had a psychological breakdown and I experienced Jesus. It was fascinating.  It could have been all in my head, but either way, he exists in my head and others too.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: kentrolla on November 02, 2013, 10:52:55 PM
I'm skeptical about all that.  Evidence exists that atheists are not so terribly rational.  In the US, about 80% are Democrat and go along with those progressive agendas.  They replace - to what extent may be debatable, yes - believe in an all powerful god with a belief in an all powerful government.  I think this happens at a subconscious level, after a vacuum exists from taking away the god-stuff - someone like Obama comes in and fills in the gap.

I don't care about democrats or republicans, like I said Buddhism is technically an atheistic religion and they have all sorts of magical thinking, I was making the point for the specific branch of skepticism, atheism.
This is news to me, I was not under that impression.  What's the deal with Shiva, lord of consciousness.  Sounds like god to me.

Nevermind, that's hinduism.  But Buddhists do believe in devas, higher dimensional creatures, and some believe in eternal Buddha which sounds like eternal consciousness to me.  It all seems way to spiritual to reject the existence of a supreme consciousness.  They believe in nirvana too, that's what I experienced when I ascended to the 10th dimension.  Seems rather odd a Buddhist wouldn't believe in god.

DMT will make LSD seem like just a drug.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 02, 2013, 11:28:32 PM
Look, a 'need for myth' must be stronger than a need for rationality, or perhaps both coexist in any individual human at differing or the same times, or perhaps the exist to differing degrees in different humans.  

I guess what I was saying is that the assertion that 'we don't need myth' may actually be false, then the person who is inclined to need it finds it nonetheless when he or she rejects religion.  They find it in government, or in science, or who knows where.  They become radical ecology freaks worried about the End of Gaia as we Know it, the Apocalpse of Doom, the hurricanes, the 20 foot high wall of water that is coming for us.

Some of them, you know they'd be less annoying if they'd just stuck with religion instead of 'progressing'....

Humans are of byzantine complexity, and can be one thing at one moment and seem to be something completely different the next.  The religion of Atheism nonwithstanding...I suggest then that you can only be truly free if you reject, along with the traditional religions, the religion of Atheism and other modern progressive delusions.

You seem to be confused about atheism. Atheism is not a religion in the same way not believing in unicorns is not a religion or not collecting stamps is not a hobby, there are atheistic religions like Buddhism, but atheism in itself is not a religion....
It certainly can be a religion, believed in with faith that it is true, by devout and pius true believers. 

In fact, it necessarily has it's origins in systems of belief.  Leaving aside that you could have no atheism without religion, atheism in the days before microscopes could only exist on faith.

"I can't prove it but I just KNOW there is no spontaneous creation!!!  It can't be that spirits go into matter and make it come alive!"

That's faith and belief if it ever was.

And you're also confused about how the burden of proof works...

Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_burden_of_evidence


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 02, 2013, 11:37:56 PM
I'm skeptical about all that.  Evidence exists that atheists are not so terribly rational.  In the US, about 80% are Democrat and go along with those progressive agendas.  They replace - to what extent may be debatable, yes - believe in an all powerful god with a belief in an all powerful government.  I think this happens at a subconscious level, after a vacuum exists from taking away the god-stuff - someone like Obama comes in and fills in the gap.

I don't care about democrats or republicans, like I said Buddhism is technically an atheistic religion and they have all sorts of magical thinking, I was making the point for the specific branch of skepticism, atheism.
This is news to me, I was not under that impression.  What's the deal with Shiva, lord of consciousness.  Sounds like god to me.

Nevermind, that's hinduism.  But Buddhists do believe in devas, higher dimensional creatures, and some believe in eternal Buddha which sounds like eternal consciousness to me.  It all seems way to spiritual to reject the existence of a supreme consciousness.  They believe in nirvana too, that's what I experienced when I ascended to the 10th dimension.  Seems rather odd a Buddhist wouldn't believe in god.

DMT will make LSD seem like just a drug.
DMT is whole nother dimension of it's own.  Both connect you to god.

If anyone doesn't believe but wants to, psychedelics will show you the way.  I never believed in god until I used them, because I didn't understand it.  Seeing is believing.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 03, 2013, 01:26:21 AM
Look, a 'need for myth' must be stronger than a need for rationality, or perhaps both coexist in any individual human at differing or the same times, or perhaps the exist to differing degrees in different humans.  

I guess what I was saying is that the assertion that 'we don't need myth' may actually be false, then the person who is inclined to need it finds it nonetheless when he or she rejects religion.  They find it in government, or in science, or who knows where.  They become radical ecology freaks worried about the End of Gaia as we Know it, the Apocalpse of Doom, the hurricanes, the 20 foot high wall of water that is coming for us.

Some of them, you know they'd be less annoying if they'd just stuck with religion instead of 'progressing'....

Humans are of byzantine complexity, and can be one thing at one moment and seem to be something completely different the next.  The religion of Atheism nonwithstanding...I suggest then that you can only be truly free if you reject, along with the traditional religions, the religion of Atheism and other modern progressive delusions.

You seem to be confused about atheism. Atheism is not a religion in the same way not believing in unicorns is not a religion or not collecting stamps is not a hobby, there are atheistic religions like Buddhism, but atheism in itself is not a religion.

Yes, people believe in all kind of strange stuff, that's a consequence of our evolution because only the paranoids survive, for millions of years our species evolved somewhere in Africa, it was a hostile environment and the individuals who were not "paranoid" got out of the pool gene.

Here's a classic example, two individuals, 100000 years ago, there's a noise in the grass, it can be a lion, it can be the wind, the paranoid individual runs for a tree, the relaxed one stays, if it's the wind the two survived, the one who run lost a few calories, not a big cost, but if it is a lion the one who stays got eaten and his genes got out of the pool gene.

The cost for a false negative is far greater than the cost for a false positive, and the individuals who tend to believe in the occult agent pass their genes.

The same way with obeying authority, specially parents, if a parent says to a child don't pick that snake or don't eat those berries the individuals who obey tend to live longer and pass their genes.

If we had evolved in an environment without big predators, like the Galapagos where animals don't run from you because there are no big predators and no need for being paranoid, we probably would not have this characteristic.
I'd say the one who is paranoid or fears the lion is the one who be killed by it, not the one who's calm and collective.  Have you not seen that video of the South African (I believe) young girl who can peacefully interact with lions?

I beg to differ that atheism isn't a religion.  Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe according to the internet.

Atheism asserts a firm belief in the absence of a god.  Agnosticism would be less of a religion.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 02:39:18 AM
In my life I have watched many a men and women take their last breath. I have witnessed many strange occurances surrounding death but at the same time I have watched many just exhale and die...no get wonder there. Time and time again I find it amazing how many people turn to Christ in their darkest hour yet refused to pay even a glance during their prime. Many times when science has failed you, say for example by failing to stop the cancer eating up your body and you have no other options...you turn to faith. Luckily it is never too late until the moment of death.

My advice is seek out the answer for yourself as too many people have good intentions but lack the gift.

Perhaps start with a teaching we can all take a lesson from? Taken from the book of Matthew.

Judging Others

1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
 
3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
 
6“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
 
Ask, Seek, Knock

7“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.8For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
 
9“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
 
The Narrow and Wide Gates

13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
 
True and False Prophets

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
 
True and False Disciples (Take this to heart)

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
 
The Wise and Foolish Builders

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

The term Christian is often never even close to a true description of the person portraying it. Christian is to be Christ-like. Love your neighbor as yourself and quit playing games.

I find myself discovering more each day and invite you to do the same. Do you have to to be anyone special? Nope. I would find a bible the next time your in the store and search for the words in RED. Actually sit and mellow on them. I hope you all a good day of mining and happy trading for the rest.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 02:53:16 AM
.....
I'd say the one who is paranoid or fears the lion is the one who be killed by it, not the one who's calm and collective.  Have you not seen that video of the South African (I believe) young girl who can peacefully interact with lions?
Don't believe that type of stuff.  One day the lion gets irritated, or has a sudden impulse for a tasty young girl, and it's all over.

.....
...I beg to differ that atheism isn't a religion.  Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe according to the internet.

Atheism asserts a firm belief in the absence of a god.  Agnosticism would be less of a religion.
That's what I was trying to point out.  Not that we could use dialect and logic to discuss the issue, but rather that many so called 'atheists' show all the marks of fervent believers.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 02:56:33 AM
..........search for the words in RED.....
Hi, sock puppet.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 03:23:19 AM
Right...

That would make everything so easy for me...but unfortunately that is not how it is. I certainly hope you took something more from what I took the time to provide for you to chastise. No matter though friend we all come into this world through birth and leave with death. See you on the other side. ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 03:39:51 AM
Right...

That would make everything so easy for me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAr-WlxMZY


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 04:03:27 AM
*Tear* Real talk.

Music IS my special friend. Ironically I account for about 1k of those 2.3 million views.

Post some Maynard next time if you respond tonight. I can get you started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2A8H0EZFig


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 03, 2013, 04:08:36 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  For example, because we must have faith that the men who wrote the Bible were being completely honest in their writings, objective ethics requires faith that what God said within the Bible, including his mortal figure, is the complete truth, which would then have to assume men with this kind of power can't lie.  Because if God speaks to us as to what is or is not ethical today, we would all come to the same conclusions on what is and isn't ethical, and yet we do not, which implies God has kept quiet about this matter since then.

So how could objective ethics function without first trusting that those who speak for the greatest authority weren't lying?  And if this cannot be accomplished, how do we compensate for the various other religions whose objective ethics clash with Christianity?--e.g., if ethics are objective, they should not clash any more than 2 + 2.

Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 04:30:35 AM
*Tear* Real talk.

Music IS my special friend. Ironically I account for about 1k of those 2.3 million views.

Post some Maynard next time if you respond tonight. I can get you started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2A8H0EZFig



here's some of your Christian nations in action, my friend.  Music is not to hypnotize and reinforce belief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZCe8Fw8vyM


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 04:34:32 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  ....
Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?
You'll find if you look, that very deep thinkers have argued and discussed this question at length.  I can tell you the short story on my view, which is that religions, including the bible, are the tools tyrants use to get what they want from people.

Lying, as you call it, and myth/myth building are really not the same thing. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 04:42:53 AM


[/quote]

here's some of your Christian nations in action, my friend.  Music is not to hypnotize and reinforce belief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZCe8Fw8vyM
[/quote]

And I am Irish. Thanks for bringing lyrics about a potato famine to the table. Your 2 for 3 on figuring me out pal.

Although you do bring up a nice point which is the actions of "Christian Nations". However nations are lead by men, or women (respect to you SKoreans) and as humans we fall to sins such as lets just throw out GREED. Your argument is the equivalent to the typical American grouping all Muslims together because a radical sect believe in violence. People do screwed up things and that will never change. I guess I just choose to live my life and make my own decisions regardless of others and their actions, and I invite you to do the same.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 03, 2013, 04:47:21 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  ....
Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?
You'll find if you look, that very deep thinkers have argued and discussed this question at length.  I can tell you the short story on my view, which is that religions, including the bible, are the tools tyrants use to get what they want from people.

Lying, as you call it, and myth/myth building are really not the same thing.  

I see your point; just laying out some practical questioning for people who may otherwise not see the need to ask ;D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 03, 2013, 04:49:19 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  ....
Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?
You'll find if you look, that very deep thinkers have argued and discussed this question at length.  I can tell you the short story on my view, which is that religions, including the bible, are the tools tyrants use to get what they want from people.

Lying, as you call it, and myth/myth building are really not the same thing. 
Man's fuckupification (for lack of a better word I can't remember) of religion for power does not falsify the spiritual truths found in religious texts.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 04:50:07 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  For example, because we must have faith that the men who wrote the Bible were being completely honest in their writings, objective ethics requires faith that what God said within the Bible, including his mortal figure, is the complete truth, which would then have to assume men with this kind of power can't lie.  Because if God speaks to us as to what is or is not ethical today, we would all come to the same conclusions on what is and isn't ethical, and yet we do not, which implies God has kept quiet about this matter since then.

So how could objective ethics function without first trusting that those who speak for the greatest authority weren't lying?  And if this cannot be accomplished, how do we compensate for the various other religions whose objective ethics clash with Christianity?--e.g., if ethics are objective, they should not clash any more than 2 + 2.

Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?


Sure. I read the Bible for what it is. A book. There are many types of readings you read each day and they were written by "mere mortals". Consciously and subconsciously you apply things THEY write in magazines and articles to your life. Your faulting yourself due to your disbelief in your fellow man, rightly though is your opinion. Hence why I stated in a previous post you should seek out the truth for yourself.

Do not wait for someone to say something to change your mind. It's your life and you have the gift of free thought and free will, use them.

The bible is not the end all way into heaven. You have to see it for what it is and you will discover the truth has little to do with any book but more to do with you.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 03, 2013, 04:54:01 AM
Sure. I read the Bible for what it is. A book. There are many types of readings you read each day and they were written by "mere mortals". Consciously and subconsciously you apply things THEY write in magazines and articles to your life. Your faulting yourself due to your disbelief in your fellow man, rightly though is your opinion. Hence why I stated in a previous post you should seek out the truth for yourself.

Do not wait for someone to say something to change your mind. It's your life and you have the gift of free thought and free will, use them.

The bible is not the end all way into heaven. You have to see it for what it is and you will discover the truth has little to do with any book but more to do with you.

I see where you're coming from; however, this still leaves the question at hand: can ethics, as Jesus Christ puts forth, be objective without a middle man?  If so, is it truly an observable set of facts, in the same way an apple can be objectively red or green?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 04:54:08 AM

here's some of your Christian nations in action, my friend.  Music is not to hypnotize and reinforce belief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZCe8Fw8vyM

And I am Irish. Thanks for bringing lyrics about a potato famine to the table. Your 2 for 3 on figuring me out pal.

Although you do bring up a nice point which is the actions of "Christian Nations". However nations are lead by men, or women ....
LOL....

My statement was not broad, but specific to context.  Here's Sinead again, taking the opposite point of view, that England and Ireland should love each other and be at peace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbre5Fs9m8I





Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 05:00:10 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  ....
Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?
You'll find if you look, that very deep thinkers have argued and discussed this question at length.  I can tell you the short story on my view, which is that religions, including the bible, are the tools tyrants use to get what they want from people.

Lying, as you call it, and myth/myth building are really not the same thing. 

The key word in your statement is tyrant.

For some reason I feel a Hitler reference could fit here. Oh wait no Bible used there must have used something else to convince his nation. You forget how impressionable the masses can be or your just not acknowledging it. The further you go back the more illiterate they become and someone has always seized such opportunities for self gain.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 05:06:31 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  ....
Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?
You'll find if you look, that very deep thinkers have argued and discussed this question at length.  I can tell you the short story on my view, which is that religions, including the bible, are the tools tyrants use to get what they want from people.

Lying, as you call it, and myth/myth building are really not the same thing.  

The key word in your statement is tyrant.

For some reason I feel a Hitler reference could fit here. Oh wait no Bible used there....

Unfortunately, yes they did have Bibles....

The subjugation of religion as a tool of the State is exactly what Ayn Rand warned about.

Here's another look at what man can do to man, our old friend Sgt. MacKensie.  It's in the old style of talk from what was our neighbors in Scotland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPr9g3EVz-o


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 05:11:03 AM

here's some of your Christian nations in action, my friend.  Music is not to hypnotize and reinforce belief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZCe8Fw8vyM

And I am Irish. Thanks for bringing lyrics about a potato famine to the table. Your 2 for 3 on figuring me out pal.

Although you do bring up a nice point which is the actions of "Christian Nations". However nations are lead by men, or women ....
LOL....

My statement was not broad, but specific to context.  Here's Sinead again, taking the opposite point of view, that England and Ireland should love each other and be at peace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbre5Fs9m8I





We need to upgrade your playlist. :)

You also typically find that most things are always taken OUT of context.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: foggyb on November 03, 2013, 05:14:03 AM
Can any Christian explain Jesus Christ's teachings on objective ethics working without trust that an indirect authority can define what is and is not objectively ethical?  For example, because we must have faith that the men who wrote the Bible were being completely honest in their writings, objective ethics requires faith that what God said within the Bible, including his mortal figure, is the complete truth, which would then have to assume men with this kind of power can't lie.  Because if God speaks to us as to what is or is not ethical today, we would all come to the same conclusions on what is and isn't ethical, and yet we do not, which implies God has kept quiet about this matter since then.

So how could objective ethics function without first trusting that those who speak for the greatest authority weren't lying?  And if this cannot be accomplished, how do we compensate for the various other religions whose objective ethics clash with Christianity?--e.g., if ethics are objective, they should not clash any more than 2 + 2.

Furthering this point: is this faith being placed in the lord, or ultimately in the men who wrote of him?

Once a person has faith that there is God (in the proper sense of the word), why be worried that he would deceive or betray that trust? Isn't he omnipotent, faultless, and ubiquitous?

Job 13:15 “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.”

If you're familiar with the story of Job, that's a man committed to a faith that God has mapped out all things to "work together for my good". That's pretty amazing considering that Job lost everything he had, even his health and his children. It shreds thoroughly the idea that Christianity is for the weak. A weaker man would have given up on God when put in Job's predicament. Charles Darwin did. Intellectual reasoning is helpless when faced with the idea of the super-power that God is. Its like Hamlet contemplating Shakespeare.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 05:24:02 AM
The key word in your statement is tyrant.

For some reason I feel a Hitler reference could fit here. Oh wait no Bible used there....
[/quote]

Unfortunately, yes they did have Bibles....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPr9g3EVz-o
[/quote]

Just to clarify...

You do not actually believe that the holocaust was because of Christianity do you?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 05:31:16 AM
Sure. I read the Bible for what it is. A book. There are many types of readings you read each day and they were written by "mere mortals". Consciously and subconsciously you apply things THEY write in magazines and articles to your life. Your faulting yourself due to your disbelief in your fellow man, rightly though is your opinion. Hence why I stated in a previous post you should seek out the truth for yourself.

Do not wait for someone to say something to change your mind. It's your life and you have the gift of free thought and free will, use them.

The bible is not the end all way into heaven. You have to see it for what it is and you will discover the truth has little to do with any book but more to do with you.

I see where you're coming from; however, this still leaves the question at hand: can ethics, as Jesus Christ puts forth, be objective without a middle man?  If so, is it truly an observable set of facts, in the same way an apple can be objectively red or green?

I suppose that would involve faith.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 03, 2013, 05:36:04 AM
Once a person has faith that there is God (in the proper sense of the word), why be worried that he would deceive or betray that trust? Isn't he omnipotent, faultless, and ubiquitous?

Job 13:15 “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.”

If you're familiar with the story of Job, that's a man committed to a faith that God has mapped out all things to "work together for my good". That's pretty amazing considering that Job lost everything he had, even his health and his children. Intellectual reasoning is helpless when faced with the idea of the super-power that God is. Its like Hamlet contemplating Shakespeare.

That seems to be the key to the loop; there is absolute faith in God only when unaware that the faith is directly on man, for it is man alone who claims to put forth the word of God; there is no word spoken by God or Jesus that man did not put to paper; because God is omnipotent, all he says is truth; if God says the Bible is factual, it is so.  However, if it is made aware to the believer that their faith is being placed entirely on man's ability to lie, and we know he is perfectly capable and willing to do so, the believer would be repulsed knowing very well that people are flawed, "sinful" beings.  To believe in God as told by the world's religions is to believe that man is perfect and unable to lie, but this is made very evident within even the Bible that man is not, for he otherwise would have no need for God; the God fallacy, then, is that if God is necessary, man cannot reliably speak for him, and if God is not necessary, man would not write of him anyway.

It would seem, then, this cycle is broken most effectively by making the middle man an obvious and unavoidable element which faith must pass through to get to God, else all religions would divert into flavorless deism for though man can trust God, for God is omnipotent, man cannot trust man, especially if man can write himself legitimate by writing God as having said so.

I suppose that would involve faith.

As you can probably guess, faith--that being, complete trust in that which has no proof--brings us no closer to the truth :P  If we answer a mystery with a mystery, we're left with two mysteries.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 06:42:26 AM
As you can probably guess, faith--that being, complete trust in that which has no proof--brings us no closer to the truth :P  If we answer a mystery with a mystery, we're left with two mysteries.
[/quote]

Not true, I have witnessed occurences with my own eyes that lead me to believe otherwise.

I have one for you sherlocks. ;) I work in hospice as a nurse and am at the bedside of many people when they pass. Once upon a time I had a lady under my care that had an obsession with an old gospel hymn. The Old Rugged Cross was the name of it. Every day she would have us play a cd with this song. Every day! I was at the bedside for many days in a row as some people can linger longer than others. On the day she took her last breath...on the exact moment...guess what happened? The radio started playing the song. I did not put the cd in it.

Yea I have faith in things I cannot explain.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 03, 2013, 07:00:50 AM

Not true, I have witnessed occurences with my own eyes that lead me to believe otherwise.

I have one for you sherlocks. ;) I work in hospice as a nurse and am at the bedside of many people when they pass. Once upon a time I had a lady under my care that had an obsession with an old gospel hymn. The Old Rugged Cross was the name of it. Every day she would have us play a cd with this song. Every day! I was at the bedside for many days in a row as some people can linger longer than others. On the day she took her last breath...on the exact moment...guess what happened? The radio started playing the song. I did not put the cd in it.

Yea I have faith in things I cannot explain.

Every lottery has a winner; if I leaned my head out the window every day and said, "Let it rain!", eventually I'd have a story to tell about how it rained on my command.  In other words, if you're seeking miracles, you're bound to find them; you need no faith for chance.

Look at it another way: if this happened to every person while they passed away, we'd have a real lead to work from; I would have no doubt that some supernatural force was looking over us if every person's favorite song played without intention as they passed on.  If it doesn't happen, not even to most, but we still believe it was intentional, we're left with "God works in mysterious ways" but again, a mystery answers a mystery and we're no closer to the truth than before; in what ways does God work and why does he favor some but not others?  Alas, there's no way to answer this without yet more mysteries, so we cannot be satisfied if it's the truth we're worried about.

So as a test to our findings: sometimes my best friend says exactly what I was thinking; is she a mind reader?

If so, she should always be capable of such a feat, especially on command, especially to those deemed worthy (assuming she had a following.)  Otherwise, it's coincidence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 07:29:56 AM
So as a test to our findings: sometimes my best friend says exactly what I was thinking; is she a mind reader?

If so, she should always be capable of such a feat, especially on command, especially to those deemed worthy (assuming she had a following.)  Otherwise, it's coincidence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence)
[/quote]

No your friend sometimes knows what your thinking because she is your best friend and obviously knows you. A mind reader would need to be a complete stranger to qualify. Have you ever been to a psychic? If you have perhaps you can recall the shake down part when they try to get to know you real well. There is reasoning behind that.

I get what you are saying though about such things only happening sometimes and that is actually something I have struggled with myself. You can take the one who passes peacefully and a sweet song came on the radio as she passes yet I can go to another instance where another woman (a Christian as well) had to suffer a horrible death bleeding out internally until the point of choking to death. Or worse yet a child dying in my care well before their time. Or I could list any crazy death here because the truth is I see this on a weekly basis. Why does it happen like that? I do not know how to answer that and to be honest maybe I am not meant to know. The better question is why do I like my job so much... ???

In the end all I can answer for is myself, my faith, and my convictions.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 03, 2013, 07:47:32 AM
No your friend sometimes knows what your thinking because she is your best friend and obviously knows you. A mind reader would need to be a complete stranger to qualify. Have you ever been to a psychic? If you have perhaps you can recall the shake down part when they try to get to know you real well. There is reasoning behind that.

I get what you are saying though about such things only happening sometimes and that is actually something I have struggled with myself. You can take the one who passes peacefully and a sweet song came on the radio as she passes yet I can go to another instance where another woman (a Christian as well) had to suffer a horrible death bleeding out internally until the point of choking to death. Or worse yet a child dying in my care well before their time. Why does it happen like that? I do not know how to answer that and to be honest maybe I am not meant to know.

In the end all I can answer for is myself, my faith, and my convictions.



Right; it's inclined to happen because we're familiar, so though she can't actually read my mind, it sometimes seems as though she can.

You're meant to know, but only if you dare to look; it depends on how you approach these mysteries, and I believe it all begins with a question.  When you begin with an answer, you can only ever change the world around you to conform to your answer, but it's difficult to do this as the truth tends to be unforgiving no matter what you believe, unless you believe in the truth.  Ergo, a foundation without any answer, but possibilities, is the best approach to seeking the truth, as there is no presupposition or bias towards any idea, allowing us to accept what is likely and discard what is improbable; if we realize our beliefs are inconsistent with the truth, we must not change the truth, but change our beliefs, right?

So the question, in this case, is: "Why does person A with belief X receive inconsistent treatment in death when compared to people B, C, and D with belief X?"  My hypothesis is, when considering the data as being inconsistent--sometimes devout Christians have pleasant deaths, sometimes devout Christians do not--is that there is no correlation.  This would imply that one's devotion to God is not relevant to the quality of one's death.  So let's expand on this: "Why does person A with belief X receive inconsistent treatment in death when compared to person B with belief Y?"  Comparing two differing beliefs, we can still see that the ways people die are inconsistent with their beliefs; we can continue expanding on this on and on, until we can reach the conclusion that anyone, anywhere, has no guarantee of a better or worse death than anyone else based on their beliefs, and so we come to a conclusion: death, whatever its driving force, does not discriminate against belief.  These observations remain consistent with our hypothesis, so we can call this a truth in the context of our existing.

This is the general method we can go about seeking the truths of life; all we need is a question, a bit of logic, and an open mind, and we can make sense of anything.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 02:39:58 PM
....
In the end all I can answer for is myself, my faith, and my convictions.


....
You're meant to know, but only if you dare to look; it depends on how you approach these mysteries, and I believe it all begins with a question.  When you begin with an answer, you can only ever change the world around you to conform to your answer....
But that makes everything so nice and easy!  And thinking is so hard!

Just consider.  Put your faith blindly in Jesus Christ.

You can stop thinking!

Life will be good.

Now everyone hold hands in a circle and sing Kumbaya.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 04:18:36 PM
....
In the end all I can answer for is myself, my faith, and my convictions.


....
You're meant to know, but only if you dare to look; it depends on how you approach these mysteries, and I believe it all begins with a question.  When you begin with an answer, you can only ever change the world around you to conform to your answer....
But that makes everything so nice and easy!  And thinking is so hard!

Just consider.  Put your faith blindly in Jesus Christ.

You can stop thinking!

Life will be good.

Now everyone hold hands in a circle and sing Kumbaya.

Out of context. I did not mean having faith makes everything easy and allows one to no longer think for themselves. Rather I was speaking on the fact that I live my life and make decisions on my own and in the end I am only responsible for my own actions. Your set on trying to attack the faith I have because you do not agree with it?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 03, 2013, 04:26:04 PM
....
In the end all I can answer for is myself, my faith, and my convictions.


....
You're meant to know, but only if you dare to look; it depends on how you approach these mysteries, and I believe it all begins with a question.  When you begin with an answer, you can only ever change the world around you to conform to your answer....
But that makes everything so nice and easy!  And thinking is so hard!

Just consider.  Put your faith blindly in Jesus Christ.

You can stop thinking!

Life will be good.

Now everyone hold hands in a circle and sing Kumbaya.
I wouldn't even consider this an attack, what he said is true.  When you have faith in god you can stop thinking.  And that is exactly what everybody needs to do.  When we stop thinking and focus on the present reality, we find anything is possible with the power of now.

This is where one finds peace, god and understanding.  Not through their thoughts but in the absence of thoughts can new ideas be grasped.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 04:44:33 PM


[/quote]

You're meant to know, but only if you dare to look; it depends on how you approach these mysteries, and I believe it all begins with a question.  When you begin with an answer, you can only ever change the world around you to conform to your answer, but it's difficult to do this as the truth tends to be unforgiving no matter what you believe, unless you believe in the truth.  Ergo, a foundation without any answer, but possibilities, is the best approach to seeking the truth, as there is no presupposition or bias towards any idea, allowing us to accept what is likely and discard what is improbable; if we realize our beliefs are inconsistent with the truth, we must not change the truth, but change our beliefs, right?

So the question, in this case, is: "Why does person A with belief X receive inconsistent treatment in death when compared to people B, C, and D with belief X?"  My hypothesis is, when considering the data as being inconsistent--sometimes devout Christians have pleasant deaths, sometimes devout Christians do not--is that there is no correlation.  This would imply that one's devotion to God is not relevant to the quality of one's death.  So let's expand on this: "Why does person A with belief X receive inconsistent treatment in death when compared to person B with belief Y?"  Comparing two differing beliefs, we can still see that the ways people die are inconsistent with their beliefs; we can continue expanding on this on and on, until we can reach the conclusion that anyone, anywhere, has no guarantee of a better or worse death than anyone else based on their beliefs, and so we come to a conclusion: death, whatever its driving force, does not discriminate against belief.  These observations remain consistent with our hypothesis, so we can call this a truth in the context of our existing.

This is the general method we can go about seeking the truths of life; all we need is a question, a bit of logic, and an open mind, and we can make sense of anything.
[/quote]

I think the difference between us is though we both seem to question, experiment, and seek answers we are on two seperate sides of the fence. Not meant to know, meant to know, I dont know. I came into this line of work due to my own personal fears and questions regarding death. After years upon years of doing this I still do not have all the answers, but the way I also see it is that I am still breathing so there must still be something I can learn. I believe in a spiritual world, I can list countless reasons why I do but they would likely all lead back down a similar path to here if posted. I feel as though you guys are thinking because I say I have faith I consider my journey over. Its not and my life is not easy at all. Im not a guy who even goes to church. I am full of fault. Drugs and sex can easily cloud one's mind and derail their lives and I spent many years "derailed". I would be lying to pretend I am invincible to temptation. The difference between myself and a cookie cutter Christian is I do not feel like a different person. I live amongst sinners and at times sin myself but I keep on going because I believe there is something more. It is something that I believe because it is directly related to events in my own life. The fact that your questioning is a good thing and I find it encouraging. You like myself are likely to continue discovering and forming opinions as long as you are still alive, no?

Death does not discrimnate against belief. +1,000,000. My friend I have yet to see the reaper even care about sex, race, creed, level of education, etc... Death is the great equalizer.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 04:48:35 PM
....
In the end all I can answer for is myself, my faith, and my convictions.


....
You're meant to know, but only if you dare to look; it depends on how you approach these mysteries, and I believe it all begins with a question.  When you begin with an answer, you can only ever change the world around you to conform to your answer....
But that makes everything so nice and easy!  And thinking is so hard!

Just consider.  Put your faith blindly in Jesus Christ.

You can stop thinking!

Life will be good.

Now everyone hold hands in a circle and sing Kumbaya.
I wouldn't even consider this an attack, what he said is true.  When you have faith in god you can stop thinking.  And that is exactly what everybody needs to do.  When we stop thinking and focus on the present reality, we find anything is possible with the power of now.

This is where one finds peace, god and understanding.  Not through their thoughts but in the absence of thoughts can new ideas be grasped.
What????  Look if someone says "you are just shooting yourself in the foot" that doesn't mean you should go and do it.  

It means they are explaining the problem.  The problem is not the solution.  

But now that I think about it, you two somewhat differing believers can fight it out.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 04:52:50 PM
I wouldn't even consider this an attack, what he said is true.  When you have faith in god you can stop thinking.  And that is exactly what everybody needs to do.  When we stop thinking and focus on the present reality, we find anything is possible with the power of now.

This is where one finds peace, god and understanding.  Not through their thoughts but in the absence of thoughts can new ideas be grasped.
[/quote]

I agree with what you are saying but most times it would seem that the more I try to just let it go the more I find that I can't. The idea of being able to stop thinking seems like a great idea, but I have a hard time doing that. I cannot be like the bird not worrying when he will eat next because the world is a cold place and I work hard to provide for my family. Stress sucks. Maybe my problem is not with the external but more an internal issue.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 03, 2013, 04:58:25 PM
....
In the end all I can answer for is myself, my faith, and my convictions.


....
You're meant to know, but only if you dare to look; it depends on how you approach these mysteries, and I believe it all begins with a question.  When you begin with an answer, you can only ever change the world around you to conform to your answer....
But that makes everything so nice and easy!  And thinking is so hard!

Just consider.  Put your faith blindly in Jesus Christ.

You can stop thinking!

Life will be good.

Now everyone hold hands in a circle and sing Kumbaya.
I wouldn't even consider this an attack, what he said is true.  When you have faith in god you can stop thinking.  And that is exactly what everybody needs to do.  When we stop thinking and focus on the present reality, we find anything is possible with the power of now.

This is where one finds peace, god and understanding.  Not through their thoughts but in the absence of thoughts can new ideas be grasped.
What????  Look if someone says "you are just shooting yourself in the foot" that doesn't mean you should go and do it. 

It means they are explaining the problem.  The problem is not the solution. 

But now that I think about it, you two somewhat differing believers can fight it out.
What problem?  Sorry I don't get the context of this.

I wouldn't even consider this an attack, what he said is true.  When you have faith in god you can stop thinking.  And that is exactly what everybody needs to do.  When we stop thinking and focus on the present reality, we find anything is possible with the power of now.

This is where one finds peace, god and understanding.  Not through their thoughts but in the absence of thoughts can new ideas be grasped.

I agree with what you are saying but most times it would seem that the more I try to just let it go the more I find that I can't. The idea of being able to stop thinking seems like a great idea, but I have a hard time doing that. I cannot be like the bird not worrying when he will eat next because the world is a cold place and I work hard to provide for my family. Stress sucks. Maybe my problem is not with the external but more an internal issue.
[/quote]
It's true, it's very difficult to sustain thoughtlessness on earth.  It can be done for periods of time but we are programmed to think.  It was a lot easier for me before I was forcibly drugged on antipsychotics - shits horrible, I'm still recovering.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Et Filii on November 03, 2013, 05:11:53 PM
I agree with what you are saying but most times it would seem that the more I try to just let it go the more I find that I can't. The idea of being able to stop thinking seems like a great idea, but I have a hard time doing that. I cannot be like the bird not worrying when he will eat next because the world is a cold place and I work hard to provide for my family. Stress sucks. Maybe my problem is not with the external but more an internal issue.
[/quote]
It's true, it's very difficult to sustain thoughtlessness on earth.  It can be done for periods of time but we are programmed to think.  It was a lot easier for me before I was forcibly drugged on antipsychotics - shits horrible, I'm still recovering.
[/quote]

I wish you a speedy recovery and blessings of continued clarity. Duty calls so I will likely be out for a while waiting for a funeral home pickup. The past 12 hours have been quite educational. Looking forward for more...just hopefully better music videos.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 03, 2013, 05:18:22 PM
Thanks, means a lot hearing that. :)  Many people here would be telling me to go back on that receptor blocking, brain shrinking poison. ::)

God bless.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: foggyb on November 03, 2013, 07:16:27 PM
Once a person has faith that there is God (in the proper sense of the word), why be worried that he would deceive or betray that trust? Isn't he omnipotent, faultless, and ubiquitous?

Job 13:15 “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.”

If you're familiar with the story of Job, that's a man committed to a faith that God has mapped out all things to "work together for my good". That's pretty amazing considering that Job lost everything he had, even his health and his children. Intellectual reasoning is helpless when faced with the idea of the super-power that God is. Its like Hamlet contemplating Shakespeare.

That seems to be the key to the loop; there is absolute faith in God only when unaware that the faith is directly on man, for it is man alone who claims to put forth the word of God;

I disagree, God's word states over and over that his word is true and unchanging.

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God by his own claim) (Mark 13:31)

To believe in God as told by the world's religions is to believe that man is perfect and unable to lie.

I disagree. Men do lie, but they do not lie endlessly, therefore your statement doesn't follow. However, an omnipotent God would be perfect and unable to lie, therefore he would be actively capable of preserving his word as he says he does.

if God is necessary, man cannot reliably speak for him, and if God is not necessary, man would not write of him anyway.

I disagree. God is omnipotent, and ensures that those who write of him do so reliably and with truth. There are many religious books written by men's hand; very few make some of the claims the bible does, and NONE make all the claims the bible does. One would expect the one true God to ensure this, as he is faithful to protect his integrity.

It would seem, then, this cycle is broken most effectively by making the middle man an obvious and unavoidable element which faith must pass through to get to God, else all religions would divert into flavorless deism for though man can trust God, for God is omnipotent, man cannot trust man, especially if man can write himself legitimate by writing God as having said so.

I disagree. Men make many claims in writing, many of which are true. Should all books should be burned because men sometimes lie? Do you agree that books can usually be trusted, since at the time they are written, they can be peer reviewed and their claims either falsified & cast into ridicule or printed and accepted as legitimate documents? The bible is the most studied, peer-reviewed, and best selling book of all time. That speaks volumes (pun intended).



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 03, 2013, 08:30:47 PM
I think the difference between us is though we both seem to question, experiment, and seek answers we are on two seperate sides of the fence. Not meant to know, meant to know, I dont know. I came into this line of work due to my own personal fears and questions regarding death. After years upon years of doing this I still do not have all the answers, but the way I also see it is that I am still breathing so there must still be something I can learn. I believe in a spiritual world, I can list countless reasons why I do but they would likely all lead back down a similar path to here if posted. I feel as though you guys are thinking because I say I have faith I consider my journey over. Its not and my life is not easy at all. Im not a guy who even goes to church. I am full of fault. Drugs and sex can easily cloud one's mind and derail their lives and I spent many years "derailed". I would be lying to pretend I am invincible to temptation. The difference between myself and a cookie cutter Christian is I do not feel like a different person. I live amongst sinners and at times sin myself but I keep on going because I believe there is something more. It is something that I believe because it is directly related to events in my own life. The fact that your questioning is a good thing and I find it encouraging. You like myself are likely to continue discovering and forming opinions as long as you are still alive, no?

Death does not discrimnate against belief. +1,000,000. My friend I have yet to see the reaper even care about sex, race, creed, level of education, etc... Death is the great equalizer.

There's nothing wrong with having faith; I was very faithful growing up, attending church and praying into my adult years.  However, after so long, I felt there was something more to life that I wasn't seeing; faith wasn't cutting it for me, so I started to delve into my own questioning of the world.  It's a long process; every day I'm finding out new things, and realizing things I used to believe in were very unlikely to be true, and I can't say I've come to the conclusions I have today without years of thought.  We all have faith, I believe, at certain times of our life, but ultimately I view faith as a crutch; I do not believe there are unanswerable questions, and if we dig deep enough, I've found that we can always form a rational conclusion as to what occurs in the world around us, so we can no longer have to rely on faith, we can prove to people that our beliefs are the truth.

This inevitably, however, removed my belief in God and I can safely say my code of ethics are my own, so although I can view the teachings of J. Christ, I don't necessarily believe he was the end-all to the philosophy; I believe we shouldn't work towards being like him, but to become better, so that improvements can be made in this world and the immoral people of this world can be brought to justice.  This can only happen if we refuse to accept faith, for there are people who have taken advantage of this faith for as long as we've had it, and use the rational method (as I explained earlier) which, when used successfully, cannot be exploited.  We both know that there are people in this world who use faith as an excuse or feel that faith is the only thing required in life, but I feel you and I are wiser than that.

Once a person has faith that there is God (in the proper sense of the word), why be worried that he would deceive or betray that trust? Isn't he omnipotent, faultless, and ubiquitous?

Job 13:15 “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.”

If you're familiar with the story of Job, that's a man committed to a faith that God has mapped out all things to "work together for my good". That's pretty amazing considering that Job lost everything he had, even his health and his children. Intellectual reasoning is helpless when faced with the idea of the super-power that God is. Its like Hamlet contemplating Shakespeare.

That seems to be the key to the loop; there is absolute faith in God only when unaware that the faith is directly on man, for it is man alone who claims to put forth the word of God;

I disagree, God's word states over and over that his word is true and unchanging.

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God by his own claim) (Mark 13:31)

To believe in God as told by the world's religions is to believe that man is perfect and unable to lie.

I disagree. Men do lie, but they do not lie endlessly, therefore your statement doesn't follow. However, an omnipotent God would be perfect and unable to lie, therefore he would be actively capable of preserving his word as he says he does.

if God is necessary, man cannot reliably speak for him, and if God is not necessary, man would not write of him anyway.

I disagree. God is omnipotent, and ensures that those who write of him do so reliably and with truth. There are many religious books written by men's hand; very few make some of the claims the bible does, and NONE make all the claims the bible does. One would expect the one true God to ensure this, as he is faithful to protect his integrity.

It would seem, then, this cycle is broken most effectively by making the middle man an obvious and unavoidable element which faith must pass through to get to God, else all religions would divert into flavorless deism for though man can trust God, for God is omnipotent, man cannot trust man, especially if man can write himself legitimate by writing God as having said so.

I disagree. Men make many claims in writing, many of which are true. Should all books should be burned because men sometimes lie? Do you agree that books can usually be trusted, since at the time they are written, they can be peer reviewed and their claims either falsified & cast into ridicule or printed and accepted as legitimate documents? The bible is the most studied, peer-reviewed, and best selling book of all time. That speaks volumes (pun intended).



God must first pass through man to reach the believer; without man, God speaks no word, and still to this day has not.  Therefore, all that God says is dependent on man being honest.  We know that man cannot be honest at all times.  Therefore, we cannot prove God's word to be God's word, we can only prove that it is man's word; ergo, God is only as omnipotent as we believe him to be.  This is just the logic I'm laying out for the believer :P  They can take it or discard it if they want.

I'm not saying the Bible is true or false; I'm saying it cannot be absolute, so God's word cannot be absolute.  We should not burn any books due to men lying for either those books are intentional lies (of which I love), or they are observable truths (such as the writing of many philosophers and scientists, which can be proven to be lies or not.)  If the individual cannot discern what is real and what is not on their own, they cannot trust any book asserted as truth, including religious texts, including political texts.  The beginning of this distrust, I believe, is by making obvious that books of absolute truth are only as honest as man, which is something any believer can relate with.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 03, 2013, 08:31:04 PM
....Man's fuckupification (for lack of a better word I can't remember) of religion for power does not falsify the spiritual truths found in religious texts.[/b]
It most certainly can and does.  In fact, it's inevitable that it does.  Just take the abuse of the concept of altruism for benefit of (church, government, powerful leader of one sort or another).

If the book(s) in question do not adequately explain the concept (they don't) then it is left open to fuckupification, which is exactly what will happen.  It's not impossible that such things are / were purposeful...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 05, 2013, 02:48:00 AM

I did ask for people who believe in Jesus to reply,


and I thank the following members for replying, but I hope
that more people who believe in Jesus Christ will reply.


dank - in your first post to this thread, you opened by saying you believe

pedrog- I see you rebuking Kenshin for saying that 'jesus never existed',
so I take that to mean that you believe that Jesus Christ did exist.
But do you believe in Jesus Christ? or do you believe that Jesus was 'just a man'?
It seems you are on your way to believing in jesus christ?


rampalija - Thank you for replying, I see you believe in Jesus christ.

verucabathsalts - you were raised by people who believe in jesus christ,
and seem to believe in jesus christ.

rascal777 - you are showing more faith and belief in Jesus Christ than any of the
other replies in this thread so far.

Eternity - You believe in Jesus Christ

BitChick - You believe in Jesus Christ. thank you for replying. You have been more active than
any of the other believers on this thread.

BitchicksHusband - Also believes in Jesus Christ.

anonymous_acc - you believe in jesus christ

qwertyGuy - it seems you do believe in Jesus Christ.

kentrolla - you believe in Jesus Christ. We are the clay,
and God is the potter. After living in disbelief, God takes
the piece of clay and remakes the clay, but the transition
can sometimes be hard to cope with, and sometimes people
experience 'mind or spirit troubles' or if you prefer
to use the pagan word 'psychological'... but also in the midst
of the transformation a person may believe in jesus christ
during that time, and likely afterwards as well.
Your story of a mind-breakdown and it coinciding with the conversion to believe
in Jesus Christ, is not the only one. You are not alone.
Myself, when I first believed in Jesus Christ, I wrote on the wall that 'I AM JESUS',
although I know I am not Jesus, but I was compelled by a spirit or spirits to write
that on the door or wall of my room. It was actually quite scary to be converted all of
a sudden like that, going from a non-believing states, to suddenly having no option but
to believe, considering all the evidence suddenly presented by a spirit, spirits, Jesus,
holy spirit and/or God. So, I know the terror of God. The non-believers would be fearful
if they knew some of his powers. The clouds of the sky are as the dust of his feet.
He is Almighty God. Alpha and Omega. There be no power except it be of God.
Jesus is King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. Jesus Christ was lifted up, high above
all the angels of heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God.


Et Filii - Thank you for the quotes from the book of Mattew. I find it refreshing to
read that.
Such as:
7“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.8For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
The living word of God speaks for itself. Thank you for replying.

foggyb - I like the book of Job. Job was kind and helped out alot of people.
I don't understand why God allowed the devil to cause Job so much troubles.
But after Jobs afflictions, Job once again went back to helping people again.
He was a really nice guy I think. Sometimes, if the state or other people
are not helping, where the heck are some people going to get some help?
are they just going to be trodden down, dying of thirst or starvation, without shelter
etc....? Its a scary thought, but if there is nothing given and no one to help,
then people will die. It is possible for most of us to fall down at some time in our
lives, isn't it? What if there was nothing there? We would die or suffer alot,
and its much better to get some help sometimes. Its a difficult job, but Job
did it.
 



********************I reply to some of the people who do not believe in Jesus Christ below: ***

btceic - you say you were born jewish, and you ask 'why jesus decided before I was
born to not include me as a chosen one?'
Well, Jesus actually is the savior of the jews, or hebrews, or israel(something like that)
as far as I know; but because some or more of them rejected Jesus, therefore
salvation went unto the gentiles. You are chosen, but you need to believe and receive
Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior.



DoomDumas - The Jews of the flesh believe in God, but they stumbled because of
rejecting their savior, jesus christ. They fell because of rejecting jesus;
so it is not enough to only believe in God, and you need to believe in Jesus Christ

Mike Christ - you have jesus christ's last name in your username at bitcointalk.org
but you lack faith or believe in jesus christ. According to my own studies,
'jesus' is a greek word that means 'SAVIOR' in english.
And 'Christ' is also a greek word that means 'Annointed One' or 'The Annointed One'.
Put it together, and in english, we can refer to him by this title:
THE ANNOINTED SAVIOR  - that is what 'jesus christ' actually means in english,
and it is His title. It is not his birth name. It is his Title.
There is none other. He is the one and only.
He is THE ANNOINTED SAVIOR.

DobZombie - not sure if you actually believe in Jesus christ

Ekaros - When I first believed in Jesus Christ, I was compelled to focus on the
writings of Paul the apostel, as those were the most important according to my
own conversion and the spirits involved with me. Paul even magnified his office
above Peter at one time. But you don't seem to believe in jesus christ.

BittBurger - I don't know if you believe in Jesus Christ or not.

ANiceJewishBoy - You say that His name was Jeshua vin Joseph, which is not a name
I am familiar with, but I am not a bible scholar. But you fail to see that
Jesus Christ (THE ANNOINTED SAVIOR OF THE JEWS) is the fulfillment of the
Old Testament prophecies, and He is the more perfect sacrifice, than the
sacrifices that were taught in the Old Testament, and performed by the Jews prior
to the coming of Jesus Christ. The tabernacle sacrifices are types of shadows
of the more perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Paul was one of the pharisees, and I think I read that Pauls father was also a
Pharisee. Paul is one of the most unlikely people to convert to believing
in Jesus Christ, and Steven was stoned to death, and died at Pauls feet.
And yet, God showed his Powers by converting Paul, and turning him into the minister
unto the gentiles. Paul is the man who explained Jesus Christ, or the
crucifixion of Jesus Christ, better than any other person ever did; and without
Paul, we had no where near as good of an explanation about the crucifixion of
Jesus Christ.
Jesus came to save the Jews, but they rejected Jesus, and it is through the rejection
of Jesus Christ, that salvation has gone unto the gentiles.






Once again, thank you for believing in Jesus Christ :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 04:26:45 AM
Once again, thank you for believing in Jesus Christ :)

Christianity is all about converting others to your false beliefs - by any means necessary.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 05, 2013, 05:30:24 AM
Once again, thank you for believing in Jesus Christ :)

Christianity is all about converting others to your false beliefs - by any means necessary.

vod? I had asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.

Did you read that?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 05:31:41 AM
Once again, thank you for believing in Jesus Christ :)

Christianity is all about converting others to your false beliefs - by any means necessary.

vod? I had asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.

Did you read that?

Do you understand you asked on a PUBLIC bulletin board?

You want to be surrounded by people who will listen and not question - go to church.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 05, 2013, 05:33:49 AM
Once again, thank you for believing in Jesus Christ :)

Christianity is all about converting others to your false beliefs - by any means necessary.

vod? I had asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.

Did you read that?

Do you understand you asked on a PUBLIC bulletin board?

You want to be surrounded by people who will listen and not question - go to church.

Vod? Are you blind? I said I asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.
Please debate your own beliefs on the appropriate threads.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 05:35:42 AM
Vod? Are you blind? I said I asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.
Please debate your own beliefs on the appropriate threads.

This is an appropriate thread.

Can we expand it to include those who believe in hobbits, or maybe even a leprechaun?  They are so much more interesting than your son of a god.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 05, 2013, 05:53:30 AM
Vod? Are you blind? I said I asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.
Please debate your own beliefs on the appropriate threads.

This is an appropriate thread.

Can we expand it to include those who believe in hobbits, or maybe even a leprechaun?  They are so much more interesting than your son of a god.


Why don't you make your own thread, and discuss your apostate state of non-belief in that thread? :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 06:00:13 AM
Vod? Are you blind? I said I asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.
Please debate your own beliefs on the appropriate threads.

This is an appropriate thread.

Can we expand it to include those who believe in hobbits, or maybe even a leprechaun?  They are so much more interesting than your son of a god.


Why don't you make your own thread, and discuss your apostate state of non-belief in that thread? :)

I'll participate here. 

I don't believe in jesus christ as the overwhelming odds are he never existed.  The bible wasn't written until decades after his death, and no one wrote of him sooner.   So YOU want everyone to believe that everyone forgot about ol "JC" for at least three generations, then SUDDENLY everyone remembers him (people who weren't even alive when he was) in such detail...

You want everyone to believe that, nut job?   ::)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 05, 2013, 06:06:09 AM


Vod? you are out of line, and posting off-topic in a thread where I specifically asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply.

I will ask you again, to please make your own thread, and you can discuss your apostacy there.
It is not my job to convince you to believe in Jesus Christ. In fact, it is not really possible for me to do that,
but "when it pleases God, he will reveal his son to you"

That may be in this life time, or perhaps with fire and indignation at the resurrection of the dead.

Your 'choice' Vod.

But God has blinded their eyes, so that seeing they do not see, and God has waxed their ears gross, so that hearing they do not hear; lest they believe and be saved.

Vod? That means you are under wrath my friend.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 06:13:30 AM


Vod? you are out of line, and posting off-topic in a thread where I specifically asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply.

I will ask you again, to please make your own thread, and you can discuss your apostacy there.
It is not my job to convince you to believe in Jesus Christ. In fact, it is not really possible for me to do that,
but "when it pleases God, he will reveal his son to you"

That may be in this life time, or perhaps with fire and indignation at the resurrection of the dead.

Your 'choice' Vod.

But God has blinded their eyes, so that seeing they do not see, and God has waxed their ears gross, so that hearing they do not hear; lest they believe and be saved.

Vod? That means you are under wrath my friend.

In my last post I provided excellent evidence that your JC probably doesn't exist.  Yet your brainwashed mind chose to simply ignore it.  lol

Your cult is funny - just recently I had another user saying he spoke for your entire religion that I was possessed.   :D

If you want to try and brainwash others with your nonsense - expect me to be here with a little dose of reality. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 05, 2013, 06:53:03 AM


Vod? you are out of line, and posting off-topic in a thread where I specifically asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply.

I will ask you again, to please make your own thread, and you can discuss your apostacy there.
It is not my job to convince you to believe in Jesus Christ. In fact, it is not really possible for me to do that,
but "when it pleases God, he will reveal his son to you"

That may be in this life time, or perhaps with fire and indignation at the resurrection of the dead.

Your 'choice' Vod.

But God has blinded their eyes, so that seeing they do not see, and God has waxed their ears gross, so that hearing they do not hear; lest they believe and be saved.

Vod? That means you are under wrath my friend.

In my last post I provided excellent evidence that your JC probably doesn't exist.  Yet your brainwashed mind chose to simply ignore it.  lol

Your cult is funny - just recently I had another user saying he spoke for your entire religion that I was possessed.   :D

If you want to try and brainwash others with your nonsense - expect me to be here with a little dose of reality.  


The world according to Vod! Vod thinks that Vod is the 'way, the truth and the life'

But we know that can't be true, because Jesus said:

'I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE
'


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 06:54:56 AM
The world according to Vod! Vod thinks that Vod is the 'way, the truth and the life'

Sorry fool.  Vod thinks the truth itself is the 'way.  The dark ages have been over for centuries - there are no room for imaginary gods in the age of reason. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 05, 2013, 07:07:39 AM
The world according to Vod! Vod thinks that Vod is the 'way, the truth and the life'

Sorry fool.  Vod thinks the truth itself is the 'way.  The dark ages have been over for centuries - there are no room for imaginary gods in the age of reason. 


Quote
Any man who calls another man a fool will be in danger of the judgement
- Jesus Christ


The Fool has said in his heart that there is no God - Holy Bible

I am not calling you a fool, vod, but the holy bible says you are a fool


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: hawkeye on November 05, 2013, 01:22:19 PM
Once again, thank you for believing in Jesus Christ :)

Christianity is all about converting others to your false beliefs - by any means necessary.

vod? I had asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.

Did you read that?

Do you understand you asked on a PUBLIC bulletin board?

You want to be surrounded by people who will listen and not question - go to church.

Vod? Are you blind? I said I asked for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.
Please debate your own beliefs on the appropriate threads.

You don't get to decide who posts to your thread.  That's not how forums work.  You post a thread and you take your chances.  Saying only people who believe whatever should post to your thread doesn't mean a thing.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 05, 2013, 01:28:56 PM
You don't get to decide who posts to your thread.  That's not how forums work.  You post a thread and you take your chances.  Saying only people who believe whatever should post to your thread doesn't mean a thing.

There is option for self-moderated threads, then one can decide what post leave up, but that is censorship, which is evil and traditional in these things...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 05, 2013, 06:10:44 PM
pedrog- I see you rebuking Kenshin for saying that 'jesus never existed',
so I take that to mean that you believe that Jesus Christ did exist.
But do you believe in Jesus Christ? or do you believe that Jesus was 'just a man'?
It seems you are on your way to believing in jesus christ?

What I believe is irrelevant, but historians and scholars agree that a man named Jesus had most likely existed and had some importance among his followers at the time.

The "Jesus Myth" may have compelling arguments but it doesn't stick.

Yes, Jesus was just a man like every other.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 05, 2013, 06:52:58 PM
You guys just haven't performed miracles.  If you've seen the impossible happen, you would believe someone else could perform the same things.

You should have some faith when I say I've held back a piece of a cloud from moving, I've driven off consciousness, I quantum healed a dog from cancer, my friend has flown for a brief second or two (several nondrugusing witnesses were present), another friend had his iphone float, my late grandma called my little cousin on the phone after she passed away and to confirm everything I just said, the story of Arthur;

During my second visit to the psych ward, I had a roommate named Arthur.  He saw dead people.  He said there was one in our room at one point in a very old style wheel chair.  Anyways, here's the story:

Arthur went to the park one day.  He saw a little girl and made eye contact with her.  Her told me the dead often approach or interact with you if you give them your energy, for they know you can see them.  The girl came up to him and told him she was lost.  Arthur asked her where her home was, and she told him.  They walked to the car and as the girl got in, the door physically opened and closed.  Somebody else would have seen the door open by itself.  They drove to her mothers house and Arthur knocked on the door.  Arthur told her, I don't mean any disrespect, but did you have a daughter that passed away?  Because if you do, she's here with me.  The mother immediately broke down into tears, for she could feel it was true, she did have a daughter that passed away.  The mother wrote Arthur a $1000 check for his deed, but he couldn't accept it, it didn't feel right to him.

A little bit of faith will go a long way.  I have nothing to gain by convincing people to believe in god other than good karma.  This story is proof all in itself, you're just going to have to believe the source, and as one communicating with the source for a few hours, I could tell this guy was speaking from his heart.  This man has a gift and he put it to good use.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 05, 2013, 08:09:48 PM
....

Why don't you make your own thread, and discuss your apostate state of non-belief in that thread? :)
Because hubris reigns here?

By the way:  I always liked the water to wine trick (easy to do...)...

Does someone have a no-effort bit to bitcoin trick?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 05, 2013, 08:12:28 PM
pedrog- I see you rebuking Kenshin for saying that 'jesus never existed',
so I take that to mean that you believe that Jesus Christ did exist.
But do you believe in Jesus Christ? or do you believe that Jesus was 'just a man'?
It seems you are on your way to believing in jesus christ?

What I believe is irrelevant, but historians and scholars agree that a man named Jesus had most likely existed and had some importance among his followers at the time.

The "Jesus Myth" may have compelling arguments but it doesn't stick.

Yes, Jesus was just a man like every other.

Who, exactly told you you could stick the Christ on a Jesus mentioned by someone else?

That, it would seem to me, is mis stating pedrog. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 05, 2013, 08:45:57 PM
The world according to Vod! Vod thinks that Vod is the 'way, the truth and the life'

Sorry fool.  Vod thinks the truth itself is the 'way.  The dark ages have been over for centuries - there are no room for imaginary gods in the age of reason. 


Quote
Any man who calls another man a fool will be in danger of the judgement
- Jesus Christ


The Fool has said in his heart that there is no God - Holy Bible

I am not calling you a fool, vod, but the holy bible says you are a fool
Actually, yes you simply used an argument from authority to call him a fool.  That's a logical error.

He directly called you a fool, when you disregarded logic and reason.

Your use of logical error is thus proven twice.

 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 05, 2013, 09:20:45 PM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 05, 2013, 10:30:51 PM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every day, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.
See?   See?  See what miracles praying achieve?

LOL...

I'm willing to conjecture that there was some Jesuses around 2000 years ago.  See, Jesus was a pretty common name, so there were probably like....bunches of them, man, you could herd them around like cattle.  And with that many Jesuses, you damn sure know some of them were bad boys. And some of those bad boys were like, really bad boys.  There's always gonna be a few troublemakers. 

So you can be damn sure a couple of those Jesuses were put up on the cross and died there. 

Now let me take the opposite case.

2000 years ago there were certainly no Edgar Peabodys running around.  Not even one.  Therefore, there were no Edgar Peabodys hoisted on the cross and none dying on the cross.

There were no "just_me"s, no "pedrag", no "Spendulus" (if there twer it twat a Roman), no hawkeye, but...Rassah, dank, Vod, and Ekaros, you guys names may have been crucified.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 10:47:32 PM
You should have some faith when I say I've held back a piece of a cloud from moving\

Have faith?  In YOU?     :D

Your mind is so destroyed I know you believe what you spew, but it just didn't happen.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 05, 2013, 11:04:02 PM
There were no "just_me"s, no "pedrag", no "Spendulus" (if there twer it twat a Roman), no hawkeye, but...Rassah, dank, Vod, and Ekaros, you guys names may have been crucified.

Jesus isn't really even his real name. That's just a bastardized anglicized version. I'm surprised devout Christians don't call Jesus by his actual name. I guess they don't care...

Rassah is actually a totally unique name. I pretty much pulled it out of my ass. Though I see that there are some other Rassah's, likely with accent on the second A, as opposed to mine with accent on the first, living in Middle East... Weird how almost nothing is original any more (no, not even the bible, much of which was plundered from more ancient religions)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 05, 2013, 11:38:22 PM
I don't even know if there was any greek dude name Ekaros... I doubt it, but who knows, likely no documentation...

Εκαρος

I highly doubt, and most likely would haven't been crucified anyway that stuff was for the really evil folks...

EDIT:

I found the word in some work, sadly my studies in archaic-Greece were really really sort. And I don't care to bother my frieds who might have studied it...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 05, 2013, 11:41:00 PM
You should have some faith when I say I've held back a piece of a cloud from moving\

Have faith?  In YOU?     :D

Your mind is so destroyed I know you believe what you spew, but it just didn't happen.
Then why did other people see it stop moving?

Yes, you should have faith in me.  For I am you.  And I love you unconditionally.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 05, 2013, 11:45:56 PM
You should have some faith when I say I've held back a piece of a cloud from moving\

Have faith?  In YOU?     :D

Your mind is so destroyed I know you believe what you spew, but it just didn't happen.
Then why did other people see it stop moving?

Yes, you should have faith in me.  For I am you.  And I love you unconditionally.

How many times you failed in that trick? And was the cloud moving to start with? ;D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 05, 2013, 11:53:55 PM
Then why did other people see it stop moving?

Yes, you should have faith in me.  For I am you.  And I love you unconditionally.

I believe you love me as much as I believe you you stopped a cloud from moving.

 :D  You're such a whack job - you and the cultists in this thread are amusing.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 05, 2013, 11:56:07 PM
I have only tried it once, with 100% success rate.  I will not try it again because my mind does not vibrate on the frequencies it used to after 2012 and being molested with antipsychotics.  It may take some years before I can do that again.  Of course the cloud was moving. :P

Vod, sorry to hear that.  I love you infinitely, I hope you know this and one day will feel it.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 06, 2013, 12:02:34 AM
I have only tried it once, with 100% success rate.  I will not try it again because my mind does not vibrate on the frequencies it used to after 2012 and being molested with antipsychotics.  It may take some years before I can do that again.  Of course the cloud was moving. :P

Vod, sorry to hear that.  I love you infinitely, I hope you know this and one day will feel it.

No idea what the word "love" means to you, but thanks anyway nut job.   :D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 12:21:24 AM
You should have some faith when I say I've held back a piece of a cloud from moving\

Have faith?  In YOU?     :D

Your mind is so destroyed I know you believe what you spew, but it just didn't happen.
Then why did other people see it stop moving?

Yes, you should have faith in me.  For I am you.  And I love you unconditionally.
Your friends were just screwing with you. One of them was actually the one who stopped the cloud, but made you think you did it to make fun of you. You have terrible friends.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 06, 2013, 12:29:53 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real (or I think perhaps deep down you are just ticked at him) but in spite of that, He loves you anyway and misses you so much.  Why would I feel this compelling desire to pray for you more than anyone else on here?  Call me crazy if you want.  And as for growing up Catholic, the Catholic church is not perfect (no church is perfect) But they do some things to instill guilt more than love and rules more than grace then some other churches.  Perhaps you should open your mind to a different denomination?  Perhaps it is things done by the "church" and not God that tick you off the most?  Something to think about anyways.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 06, 2013, 12:43:43 AM
There were no "just_me"s, no "pedrag", no "Spendulus" (if there twer it twat a Roman), no hawkeye, but...Rassah, dank, Vod, and Ekaros, you guys names may have been crucified.

Jesus isn't really even his real name. That's just a bastardized anglicized version. I'm surprised devout Christians don't call Jesus by his actual name. I guess they don't care...

Rassah is actually a totally unique name. I pretty much pulled it out of my ass. Though I see that there are some other Rassah's, likely with accent on the second A, as opposed to mine with accent on the first, living in Middle East... Weird how almost nothing is original any more (no, not even the bible, much of which was plundered from more ancient religions)
Right, but the name-of-him-who-we-call-today-Jesus was a common name.

I don't know about that.  That name "rassah" sounds, well, like the kind of name of someone who was a real troublemaker.  I know them when I hear them.  And let me tell you, you hang out around a few Roman Centurians, they say "Chump, what's your name" and you say "Rassah" and they say "What?" and you say "Rassah, SIR" and they say "Rassah, eh?"

Methinks that's like, on a slow and boring night, gonna be some trouble for Rassah...

You got to think about what it was like back then with no television.  It was the crooked dice game, or drinking, or pillaging and raping villages, or making fun and likely beating people to a pulp that had funny names.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 06, 2013, 12:45:34 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.

Then I got better.

You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. 

Lucky you Rassah!  Tonight bitchick will be ignoring her husband; she will be on her knees, rubbing her hands together and thinking of YOU!    ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 06, 2013, 12:51:13 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real ....
Salvation, redemption and so forth may be either TO or FROM....

When he says honestly that he's made a movement to the better, I can't see why not to accept that at face value. 

Because that movement was AWAY from "Jesus"?  The problem with double talk such as "oh but that must not have been the True Jesus, try a different one" is the True Scotsman logical fallacy.  The problem with arguing that "Oh that Catholic church thats Man's creation that's not God" is that argument can be never proven or disproven, thus it can be used anywhere and anything against or for anything.

It is like if someone said "I'm doing much better since I stopped drinking".   Ok, fine.  Then someone else walks up and says "I've started drinking and I like it."  Ok, that's fine too.  The one statement does not contradict the truth of the other.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 06, 2013, 12:55:27 AM
You should have some faith when I say I've held back a piece of a cloud from moving\

Have faith?  In YOU?     :D

Your mind is so destroyed I know you believe what you spew, but it just didn't happen.
Then why did other people see it stop moving?

Yes, you should have faith in me.  For I am you.  And I love you unconditionally.
Your friends were just screwing with you. One of them was actually the one who stopped the cloud, but made you think you did it to make fun of you. You have terrible friends.
This is false.  After I stopped the cloud, I told them to try and they both did successfully.

Just like when I fly, others will try and succeed.

And for anybody that may want to know.  I was always an atheist, I had no god in my life.  I never believed in god, but I wanted to, I simply couldn't believe in something I didn't understand.  I believed/found understanding of god when I experienced it firsthand through psychedelics, god's gift for man to connect to god with, quite responsible for many major evolution advancements throughout history.  I found understanding of Jesus simply by living.

Rassah, I can see why you don't believe.  You don't understand what an all encompassing consciousness consists of because you haven't experienced it or surpassed life experiences to the point you could form a belief.

If you or anyone is truly open minded about god and wants to see/understand/connect to god themselves, I recommend you explore realms of the consciousness that you have not before, be it through mediation, astral projection, smoking cannabis, or eating a psychedelic.  If you do not want to touch drugs, try laying down in a silent environment, or to some binural beats.  Relax your mind, focus solely on the breath, send all thoughts into the realms of outer space.  Relax your muscles starting at your feet and move your way up your body, over and over.  Relax until you completely let go of your body.  You will feel your body dissolve into energy, at this point you can try and move it (the energy) side to side to gain energy or you can even lift up as if you're arm is leaving your body.  This may take many tries but if you truly want to find your consciousness and what it is capable of doing, it's worth practicing.

And vod, you don't need to be on your knees to pray.  I will also pray for Rassah, all of you, perhaps we can bring some light to his realm.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 06, 2013, 01:10:33 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.

Then I got better.

You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. 

Lucky you Rassah!  Tonight bitchick will be ignoring her husband; she will be on her knees, rubbing her hands together and thinking of YOU!    ;)

Vod, you are just jealous!   ;D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: pedrog on November 06, 2013, 01:57:32 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

I have a similar story, but it ends with "then I turned 13."


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 05:44:54 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real (or I think perhaps deep down you are just ticked at him)

I'm not ticked, but the "convinced" is not the correct term. I am not convinced that there is no god. I just don't see any evidence for his existence. The best I can do to illustrate is to ask a question (and hopefully you have never heard this term): are you convinced that Baba Yaga doesn't exist? You probably can't answer this question, because you don't know what Baba Yaga is (though she was a frequent part of my childhood folklore), and after you Google her, likely think the very question is silly. You don't even have to ponder her existence, since she is simply not a part of your life. You know she is a made up character from story books, and to consider whether or not she is real would be rather insane.
So, in the same way that you are not-so-much convinced as simply consider the idea of pondering whether she exists to be preposterous and ridiculous, I consider the idea of pondering whether god exists to be ridiculous as well. To me it is as productive to consider as it would be to wonder whether to be convinced that there is a teapot orbiting the sun on the other side where we can't see it. Sure? Maybe? It sounds silly, and why does it matter?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 06, 2013, 05:53:28 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real (or I think perhaps deep down you are just ticked at him)

I'm not ticked, but the "convinced" is not the correct term. I am not convinced that there is no god. I just don't see any evidence for his existence. The best I can do to illustrate is to ask a question (and hopefully you have never heard this term): are you convinced that Baba Yaga doesn't exist? You probably can't answer this question, because you don't know what Baba Yaga is (though she was a frequent part of my childhood folklore), and after you Google her, likely think the very question is silly. You don't even have to ponder her existence, since she is simply not a part of your life. You know she is a made up character from story books, and to consider whether or not she is real would be rather insane.
So, in the same way that you are not-so-much convinced as simply consider the idea of pondering whether she exists to be preposterous and ridiculous, I consider the idea of pondering whether god exists to be ridiculous as well. To me it is as productive to consider as it would be to wonder whether to be convinced that there is a teapot orbiting the sun on the other side where we can't see it. Sure? Maybe? It sounds silly, and why does it matter?

Why does it matter?

It matters because YOU matter! God cares about you!  He cares about all of us!  We are not just randomly here by chance.  There is more to us then just random molecules that just happened by chance.  We are created in God's image and he wants to have a relationship with us.  I just think that there have been things that have caused you to question God's existence.  Those things shook you to your core and left you feeling like there could not be a God if he allowed these things to happen.  I do get that.  I have questioned things in my life too.  But God's existence in not about me being upset with how He does things, or doesn't do things.  It is about trusting that even when things do not make sense, even when He does not bring justice as swiftly as I would like (granted I prefer Him to be patient with me all of the time) He still is God.  He still loves us and in the end everything will be made right.  Sure we are in this fallen world that is not perfect, but there will come a day when all things will be made right.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 05:54:40 AM
Right, but the name-of-him-who-we-call-today-Jesus was a common name.

Jesus wasn't. Yehua (sp?) was. But yes, very common. It's like seeing that the name "Bob" is in the White Pages, and claiming "See? Bob the god really did exist!"

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I don't know about that.  That name "rassah" sounds, well, like the kind of name of someone who was a real troublemaker.  I know them when I hear them.  And let me tell you, you hang out around a few Roman Centurians, they say "Chump, what's your name" and you say "Rassah" and they say "What?" and you say "Rassah, SIR" and they say "Rassah, eh?"

Methinks that's like, on a slow and boring night, gonna be some trouble for Rassah...

Confession time, and sorry if I ruin it for everyone. When I was a kid (14 maybe), joining the furry fandom, I had to pick an animal persona to role-play and make up a name (furries are f'in weird, yes). I picked a panther, and wanted make up a name that was somehow related to big cats. So, a Rrrrr growl sound that panthers/leopards make, plus cat hissing, resulted in rrrrra sssss ah. I just added the "ah" to make it sound like a name, and the name Rassah was formed (accent on first a). It was pretty much just my name everywhere on the internet until some third world north African and middle Eastern countries joined. Now I'm only aware of three other real Rassah's in the world.
Hope I didn't make things uncomfortably weird for anyone going forward (and feel free to rrrr and hiss when you say my name)  ;D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 06:00:55 AM
It is like if someone said "I'm doing much better since I stopped drinking".   Ok, fine.  Then someone else walks up and says "I've started drinking and I like it."  Ok, that's fine too.  The one statement does not contradict the truth of the other.

Oooh, I like that! Definitely going to have to try to remember this one.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 06, 2013, 06:05:24 AM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real ....
Salvation, redemption and so forth may be either TO or FROM....

When he says honestly that he's made a movement to the better, I can't see why not to accept that at face value. 

Because that movement was AWAY from "Jesus"?  The problem with double talk such as "oh but that must not have been the True Jesus, try a different one" is the True Scotsman logical fallacy.  The problem with arguing that "Oh that Catholic church thats Man's creation that's not God" is that argument can be never proven or disproven, thus it can be used anywhere and anything against or for anything.

It is like if someone said "I'm doing much better since I stopped drinking".   Ok, fine.  Then someone else walks up and says "I've started drinking and I like it."  Ok, that's fine too.  The one statement does not contradict the truth of the other.



Sure.  It might be better for a while.  Drinking is great for a while.  Someone could totally get drunk every night and say, "I like it" then die of alcohol poisoning.  Then it would not be as much fun would it? 

A verse that comes to mind is "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial."


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 06:06:38 AM
If you or anyone is truly open minded about god and wants to see/understand/connect to god themselves, I recommend you explore realms of the consciousness that you have not before,
...
If you do not want to touch drugs, try laying down in a silent environment, or to some binural beats.  Relax your mind, focus solely on the breath, send all thoughts into the realms of outer space.  Relax your muscles starting at your feet and move your way up your body, over and over.  Relax until you completely let go of your body.  You will feel your body dissolve into energy, at this point you can try and move it (the energy) side to side to gain energy or you can even lift up as if you're arm is leaving your body.  This may take many tries but if you truly want to find your consciousness and what it is capable of doing, it's worth practicing.

It's funny, and somewhat telling, that you think I've never done this. Unlike you, I simply never diluted myself into thinking it was something that it was not.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 06:26:12 AM
I guess you didn't quite understand what I was trying to say when I asked you whether you are convinced that (insert random thing you've never heard of before) doesn't exist, after all  :-\

It matters because YOU matter! God cares about you!  He cares about all of us!

That's nice... Baba Yaga thinks about ways to catch and eat you. How do you feel about that?

Quote
We are not just randomly here by chance.  There is more to us then just random molecules that just happened by chance.  We are created in God's image and he wants to have a relationship with us.

OK... But there is absolutely no evidence for that claim as far as I'm concerned, meaning I would have to entirely take your word for it, and I'm entirely unconvinced that you are an authority on how the world works.

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I just think that there have been things that have caused you to question God's existence.

Of course. You don't change your mind about anything without first questioning it and then exploring it in detail.

Quote
Those things shook you to your core and left you feeling like there could not be a God if he allowed these things to happen.  I do get that.

I hope so (though I'm not convinced you do). Something as incredibly brainwashing as belief in how the entire world functions often needs something core-shaking to make you even begin to question it.


Quote
I have questioned things in my life too.  But God's existence in not about me being upset with how He does things, or doesn't do things.  It is about trusting that even when things do not make sense, even when He does not bring justice as swiftly as I would like (granted I prefer Him to be patient with me all of the time) He still is God.  He still loves us and in the end everything will be made right.  Sure we are in this fallen world that is not perfect, but there will come a day when all things will be made right.

For me, god's existence is not about me being upset with how he does or doesn't do things. It's simply something that has no evidence for it's existence, and thus has absolutely no relevance to my life. God's existence to me is like Baba Yaga's existence is to you. Just a zero, in a life full of numbers.

I will wish very hard that you can some day overcome your religious delusion, stop wasting so much time and energy on this ultimately pointless belief, apply all that time and energy to something much more productive and beneficial, and become a better, happier, more independent and complete person as a result.
Though I suspect my wish will be exactly as productive as your prayers for me.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 06, 2013, 06:31:25 AM
I remember baba yaga.   Didn't she live in a house supported by three chicken legs that constantly rotated?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Anon136 on November 06, 2013, 06:33:32 AM
bitchick: why do you believe in some things that have no evidence to support them but not other things that have no evidence to support them? why do you believe god exists but not care bears?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: hawkeye on November 06, 2013, 12:23:05 PM
Why I not only don't believe in God, but I also think it's highly unlikely that any God exists.  I'll just throw this out and people can comment on it or not.  Hopefully, I can articulate my position.

Let's say God did exist for a moment.   OK, so where did God come from?  The answer to this is usually that he just is, or something like that (Christians feel free to correct me on that).  My next question at that point is why is he just is?  What physical laws make that possible or what physical laws are in his dimension that make that possible?  To me, that would be a fascinating question, and considering all the people who claim to be in touch with him I can't believe no-one's asked it.

God is a very human concept.  It's something that, as far as I know, has manifested itself in every culture.  It's to do with our not knowing and superstition for the world and desire for answers and also a control mechanism used to extract resources in a time of poverty, which until the Industrial Revolution in the 1800's pretty much the entire world was in poverty by our standards.  So, there are rational explanations for why people would come up with these stories.  And no evidence anywhere.  Which is also why the stories are always different from place to place.  You never get the same God appearing in two different places independently.   This is a concept perfectly consistent with the idea that all Gods were invented by man.

Why don't I think there is any God?  I think it's become obvious now, with the dawn of Quantum mechanics that humans can't intuitively grasp how the building blocks of our universe work.  We can develop equations that produce the results we expect but intuitively much of it doesn't make sense.   So our intuition in life that things must be "created", maybe that isn't true either.   We now have explanations for how stars form, how planets form, etc and it's clear these are all natural processes.  It seems perfectly likely that the universe is also such a process.  It may be one we'll never figure out, the information just may not be available to us, but it just really makes so much more sense given what we know about the world.  It will be probably be totally bizarre to us in the same way quantum mechanics is, but still a valid process.

The people thousands of years ago, in comparison, didn't know much, but they figured out a good method of manipulation pretty early on.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 06, 2013, 12:47:13 PM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real ....
Salvation, redemption and so forth may be either TO or FROM....

When he says honestly that he's made a movement to the better, I can't see why not to accept that at face value.  

Because that movement was AWAY from "Jesus"?  The problem with double talk such as "oh but that must not have been the True Jesus, try a different one" is the True Scotsman logical fallacy.  The problem with arguing that "Oh that Catholic church thats Man's creation that's not God" is that argument can be never proven or disproven, thus it can be used anywhere and anything against or for anything.

It is like if someone said "I'm doing much better since I stopped drinking".   Ok, fine.  Then someone else walks up and says "I've started drinking and I like it."  Ok, that's fine too.  The one statement does not contradict the truth of the other.



Sure.  It might be better for a while.  Drinking is great for a while.  Someone could totally get drunk every night and say, "I like it" then die of alcohol poisoning.  Then it would not be as much fun would it?  

A verse that comes to mind is "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial."
No arguments with that.  But note I haven't in the analogy mentioned 'excessive drinking'.  Here's another example.  Some time ago a vegetarian girl worked for me.  One day she came in sort of a dazed, dreamy look, slight smile on her face.  First thing I thought was that she'd fallen head over heels in love with some guy.  

I asked "You look happy, what happened?"

The reply...

"I just ate a hamburger..."

Solution for Person A at moment A1:  Don't eat meat
Solution for Person A at moment A2:  Eat meat

Why should just one of these be 'right'?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 06, 2013, 03:04:02 PM
I will wish very hard that you can some day overcome your religious delusion, stop wasting so much time and energy on this ultimately pointless belief, apply all that time and energy to something much more productive and beneficial, and become a better, happier, more independent and complete person as a result.
Though I suspect my wish will be exactly as productive as your prayers for me.

Why do you wish that for me?  Do you really think it will somehow "enlighten" me and make my life better somehow? 

I am a million times better person because of my faith in Jesus.  Before letting Jesus into my life I had hate, anger, fear and was controlled by my own desires.  With His help I am able to see the world through His eyes and have love, compassion, hope and joy regardless of the circumstances around me and regardless of what people do to me and I am never alone.

Sure, people that are not Christians are doing "good deeds" every day and are reaping some of the rewards that comes with doing good things. Some atheists are kind and giving individuals for sure (I think you are one of them BTW) The verses, "It is more blessed to give then receive" stand true for everyone.  I just find that my hands are less tightfisted thanks to what Jesus has done for me and I have more compassion for those around me.

The Bible says that the prayers of the righteous are effective.  Of course I am not "righteous" on my own but Jesus has made me more so!  So it is in faith that I pray that God can do great things.  Granted, everyone has a choice regardless of how much anyone prays (the whole free-will issue applies here).  But I think that praying for God to show you (and others) how much He loves them is a prayer that He will and does answer.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 06, 2013, 03:08:48 PM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real ....
Salvation, redemption and so forth may be either TO or FROM....

When he says honestly that he's made a movement to the better, I can't see why not to accept that at face value.  

Because that movement was AWAY from "Jesus"?  The problem with double talk such as "oh but that must not have been the True Jesus, try a different one" is the True Scotsman logical fallacy.  The problem with arguing that "Oh that Catholic church thats Man's creation that's not God" is that argument can be never proven or disproven, thus it can be used anywhere and anything against or for anything.

It is like if someone said "I'm doing much better since I stopped drinking".   Ok, fine.  Then someone else walks up and says "I've started drinking and I like it."  Ok, that's fine too.  The one statement does not contradict the truth of the other.



Sure.  It might be better for a while.  Drinking is great for a while.  Someone could totally get drunk every night and say, "I like it" then die of alcohol poisoning.  Then it would not be as much fun would it?  

A verse that comes to mind is "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial."
No arguments with that.  But note I haven't in the analogy mentioned 'excessive drinking'.  Here's another example.  Some time ago a vegetarian girl worked for me.  One day she came in sort of a dazed, dreamy look, slight smile on her face.  First thing I thought was that she'd fallen head over heels in love with some guy.  

I asked "You look happy, what happened?"

The reply...

"I just ate a hamburger..."

Solution for Person A at moment A1:  Don't eat meat
Solution for Person A at moment A2:  Eat meat

Why should just one of these be 'right'?

I agree that neither one is necessarily right. The Bible says, "Do not be over-righteous, nor be over-wise.  A wise man avoids all extremes." 






Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 06, 2013, 03:46:44 PM

I agree that neither one is necessarily right. The Bible says, "Do not be over-righteous, nor be over-wise.  A wise man avoids all extremes." 
But let me note the difference between your response and mine.

I just came up with the idea, and you read it in a book.

OF THESE TWO OPTIONS (and leaving aside my or your religious inclinations) I greatly prefer my approach.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 04:37:34 PM
I will wish very hard that you can some day overcome your religious delusion, stop wasting so much time and energy on this ultimately pointless belief, apply all that time and energy to something much more productive and beneficial, and become a better, happier, more independent and complete person as a result.
Though I suspect my wish will be exactly as productive as your prayers for me.

Why do you wish that for me?  Do you really think it will somehow "enlighten" me and make my life better somehow? 

Yes, of course. And I speak from experience.


Quote
I am a million times better person because of my faith in Jesus.  Before letting Jesus into my life I had hate, anger, fear and was controlled by my own desires.  With His help I am able to see the world through His eyes and have love, compassion, hope and joy regardless of the circumstances around me and regardless of what people do to me and I am never alone.

But you are simply using Jesus as a crutch. You yourself are not a better person, you are a better person only because of your reliance on your belief on Jesus. If for whatever reason you started to doubt Jesus's existence, would you revert to being a hateful, angry, and fearful person who has no self-control? I can control my hate, anger, fear, and desires through my own will power alone, and don't need to deend on anyone else for that, so I feel like a more complete and better person because of it.

I look at you as like a slightly overweight person riding around in a scooter all over the place. You are completely dependent on that scooter, and believe it gives you great mobility and convenience, but I am proposing that you get off the scooter, stop depending on it, and start walking around on your own. Not only will you lose weight and gain access to many more areas that the scooter couldn't go to, but you will also stop hating yourself for being fat and so dependent on your scooter (as you apparently hate yourself for being a bad person inside, and now feel dependent on Jesus to keep you good), and gain the confidence knowing that you yourself overcame your limitations, without depending on anything or anyone else.

There is also the very apparent issue of your Jesus crutch severely limiting what kind of knowledge you are even willing to coonsider, let alone explore. The universe has an enormous amount of wonderful things and fascinating posibilities, but you refuse to acknowledge them because you are limited by where your "Jesus scooter" will allow you to go. This may not hurt you in the long run, since you'll be able to continue to survive in your happy bliss, but I'm afraid it will make your life very limited, and not as fulfilling as it could be. It's analogous to how my in-laws all live in a tiny town in Western Maryland, 2 hours from the nearest hub of "civilization." and they are totally content living there. When asked why they don't travel or explore the world, they just reply with, "I'm not really interested in that" or "I'm comfortable where I am," or "I can just see it on TV, so why bother." Yet they are missing out on so many wonderful experiences and cultures, and they don't even know about it (lucky for me, my spouse went to the Navy, which forced him to experience those things, and opened his eyes to what's outside their little cloistered lives).


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 06, 2013, 04:58:30 PM
I will wish very hard that you can some day overcome your religious delusion, stop wasting so much time and energy on this ultimately pointless belief, apply all that time and energy to something much more productive and beneficial, and become a better, happier, more independent and complete person as a result.
Though I suspect my wish will be exactly as productive as your prayers for me.

Why do you wish that for me?  Do you really think it will somehow "enlighten" me and make my life better somehow? 

Yes, of course. And I speak from experience.


Quote
I am a million times better person because of my faith in Jesus.  Before letting Jesus into my life I had hate, anger, fear and was controlled by my own desires.  With His help I am able to see the world through His eyes and have love, compassion, hope and joy regardless of the circumstances around me and regardless of what people do to me and I am never alone.

But you are simply using Jesus as a crutch. You yourself are not a better person, you are a better person only because of your reliance on your belief on Jesus. If for whatever reason you started to doubt Jesus's existence, would you revert to being a hateful, angry, and fearful person who has no self-control? I can control my hate, anger, fear, and desires through my own will power alone, and don't need to deend on anyone else for that, so I feel like a more complete and better person because of it.

I look at you as like a slightly overweight person riding around in a scooter all over the place. You are completely dependent on that scooter, and believe it gives you great mobility and convenience, but I am proposing that you get off the scooter, stop depending on it, and start walking around on your own. Not only will you lose weight and gain access to many more areas that the scooter couldn't go to, but you will also stop hating yourself for being fat and so dependent on your scooter (as you apparently hate yourself for being a bad person inside, and now feel dependent on Jesus to keep you good), and gain the confidence knowing that you yourself overcame your limitations, without depending on anything or anyone else.

There is also the very apparent issue of your Jesus crutch severely limiting what kind of knowledge you are even willing to coonsider, let alone explore. The universe has an enormous amount of wonderful things and fascinating posibilities, but you refuse to acknowledge them because you are limited by where your "Jesus scooter" will allow you to go. This may not hurt you in the long run, since you'll be able to continue to survive in your happy bliss, but I'm afraid it will make your life very limited, and not as fulfilling as it could be. It's analogous to how my in-laws all live in a tiny town in Western Maryland, 2 hours from the nearest hub of "civilization." and they are totally content living there. When asked why they don't travel or explore the world, they just reply with, "I'm not really interested in that" or "I'm comfortable where I am," or "I can just see it on TV, so why bother." Yet they are missing out on so many wonderful experiences and cultures, and they don't even know about it (lucky for me, my spouse went to the Navy, which forced him to experience those things, and opened his eyes to what's outside their little cloistered lives).

I once heard someone say "Jesus is not my crutch.  He is my stretcher!"   

I could not hobble myself to heaven even if I wanted to.  I need Him to carry me.

I guess it comes down to humility.  Accepting that I am not OK on my own is a big part of it.  There is a common teaching nowadays that tells everyone, "The power is in you" or "Just believe in yourself."  But if I am completely honest with myself I realize that I am a wretched sinner.  I don't have the power in myself at all. I have evil thoughts and desires and without God's help I would give into temptations that only His Spirit helps me withstand.  Maybe I am a just "bigger" sinner than others and realize this?  I often think the most dangerous place to be is to be a good and decent person because those are the people that never realize that they even have any problem to begin with.

Jesus did say that it is the sick that need a doctor.  I was sick and he is more than my crutch!  :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: xkeyscore89 on November 06, 2013, 05:16:15 PM
Yes, I do. My faith is something I struggle with daily, however.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 05:27:33 PM
I once heard someone say "Jesus is not my crutch.  He is my stretcher!"  

I could not hobble myself to heaven even if I wanted to.  I need Him to carry me.

The "switch" which gets from from being a theist to being an atheist is at the point where you go from
"I can never be good enough, and need Jesus to get me to heaven"
to
"I am good enough, and if god doesn't recognize that, then he is an unjust god, and I don't want his heaven, anyway."

Basically, you take the external morality/ethics you were raised with, and internalize it to build your own sens of what is right and just. Often, the internal one is much more just than what you have been taught (it was the internal morality that defied religious teachings to fight for things like women's rights, freeing slaves, letting people ask taboo questions, etc.)

Quote
I guess it comes down to humility.  Accepting that I am not OK on my own is a big part of it.  There is a common teaching nowadays that tells everyone, "The power is in you" or "Just believe in yourself."  But if I am completely honest with myself I realize that I am a wretched sinner.  I don't have the power in myself at all.

This here is the big, monstrous lie that churches have been coonvinciing people with for centuries, for the sole purpose of controling them. "You *think* you are a good person, but trust us, you are not. You are a wretched, evil human being, and the only salvation is through us. You must listen to us, do what we tell you, and give us your money, since that is the only way you will not e an evil person." It's the ultimage brainwashing power-grab, and it took a lot for people to overcome it, accept that they are not evil, and start the renaissance that brought us out of the dark ages. I am sorry to hear that you are still a victim of this lie, and don't even realize it for what is, which is some PEOPLE'S way of forcing their control over you.

Quote
I have evil thoughts and desires and without God's help I would give into temptations that only His Spirit helps me withstand.  Maybe I am a just "bigger" sinner than others and realize this?  I often think the most dangerous place to be is to be a good and decent person because those are the people that never realize that they even have any problem to begin with.

If you are at heart an evil person, and are dependent on god to keep you in line, then why would you deserve heaven? If a child is really boysterous, loud, disruptive, destructive, and is downright evil, and the only reason the child behaves is because her parents are forcing her to behave, is she really a good child? I don't think so. I would not reward that child for being forced to follow orders, since I know that she is, in reality, a bad person, and that the good face the child puts on is just a forced lie.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 06, 2013, 06:41:55 PM
I used to believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. I was a practicing Catholic, went to church every week, prayed often, and felt God's warm embrace in my life.



Then I got better.

This saddens me Rassah. :'(  You are the one I am praying for the most on here, like it or not. I know you are convinced that God is not real (or I think perhaps deep down you are just ticked at him)

I'm not ticked, but the "convinced" is not the correct term. I am not convinced that there is no god. I just don't see any evidence for his existence. The best I can do to illustrate is to ask a question (and hopefully you have never heard this term): are you convinced that Baba Yaga doesn't exist? You probably can't answer this question, because you don't know what Baba Yaga is (though she was a frequent part of my childhood folklore), and after you Google her, likely think the very question is silly. You don't even have to ponder her existence, since she is simply not a part of your life. You know she is a made up character from story books, and to consider whether or not she is real would be rather insane.
So, in the same way that you are not-so-much convinced as simply consider the idea of pondering whether she exists to be preposterous and ridiculous, I consider the idea of pondering whether god exists to be ridiculous as well. To me it is as productive to consider as it would be to wonder whether to be convinced that there is a teapot orbiting the sun on the other side where we can't see it. Sure? Maybe? It sounds silly, and why does it matter?
But Baba Yaga does exist.  Maybe not on earth, but somewhere in the infinite universe, on some dimension, she exists.  In fact she exists infinitely.  How do I know she exists?  Because I have channeled spongebob and if he exists, any other fictional character surely does.

Yes, I do. My faith is something I struggle with daily, however.
Why so?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 10:27:08 PM
But Baba Yaga does exist.  Maybe not on earth, but somewhere in the infinite universe, on some dimension, she exists.  In fact she exists infinitely.  How do I know she exists?  Because I have channeled spongebob and if he exists, any other fictional character surely does.

Can't argue that. In infinite universes full of infinite possibilities, everything exists somewhere. It just has zero relevance on our universe here. So, until Baba Yaga manages to open a portal into our universe, I won't worry about her.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 06, 2013, 10:30:37 PM
Awesome.  So you understand how a universal consciousness exists somewhere too, right?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Rassah on November 06, 2013, 10:34:03 PM
Awesome.  So you understand how a universal consciousness exists somewhere too, right?

Yes. In that universe. Not in ours.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 06, 2013, 10:40:28 PM
Yes, I do. My faith is something I struggle with daily, however.

Were you forced to go to church as a child?  If so, your struggle is probably your intelligence fighting against your brainwashing.  Good luck in your struggle!


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 12:21:16 AM
Awesome.  So you understand how a universal consciousness exists somewhere too, right?

Yes. In that universe. Not in ours.
Universe means one.  You are admitting god existing in the universe but not your reality.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 07, 2013, 12:35:32 AM
Yes, I do. My faith is something I struggle with daily, however.

Were you forced to go to church as a child?  If so, your struggle is probably your intelligence fighting against your brainwashing.  Good luck in your struggle!
Look, I know why you and many others are unbelievers.  It's all because the GoodBook talks about wine.

But not about beer.

Clearly there something very wrong with that book.  Can it be trusted?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on November 07, 2013, 12:46:47 AM
Awesome.  So you understand how a universal consciousness exists somewhere too, right?

Yes. In that universe. Not in ours.
Universe means one.  You are admitting god existing in the universe but not your reality.

There would be infinitely many gods, which one to pray to?

/edit
You would also need more than an infinite universe to allow for infinite possibility.
The total sum of infinitely many gods is zero.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 12:53:01 AM
Awesome.  So you understand how a universal consciousness exists somewhere too, right?

Yes. In that universe. Not in ours.
Universe means one.  You are admitting god existing in the universe but not your reality.

There would be infinitely many gods, which one to pray to?

/edit
You would also need more than an infinite universe to allow for infinite possibility.
The total sum of infinitely many gods is zero.
There's infinite gods indeed.  Which one to pray to?  Yourself seems like the logical answer.  Or to the singular, all encompassing, god.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on November 07, 2013, 01:01:15 AM
Awesome.  So you understand how a universal consciousness exists somewhere too, right?

Yes. In that universe. Not in ours.
Universe means one.  You are admitting god existing in the universe but not your reality.

There would be infinitely many gods, which one to pray to?

/edit
You would also need more than an infinite universe to allow for infinite possibility.
The total sum of infinitely many gods is zero.
There's infinite gods indeed.  Which one to pray to?  Yourself seems like the logical answer.  Or to the singular, all encompassing, god.

For every god that wants the sky to be a darker blue, there is a god that wants it lighter. The total effect of your infinitely many gods is zero. So whether you are right or not it has absolutely no relevance to anything.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 01:21:44 AM
You're thinking if infinite gods are in a collective reality.  We each control our own reality which makes your alternation of conscious very relevant to your reality.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on November 07, 2013, 01:35:17 AM
You're thinking if infinite gods are in a collective reality.  We each control our own reality which makes your alternation of conscious very relevant to your reality.

Firstly your definition of reality is wrong. The key to understanding the meaning of the word reality is the first bit 'real'. Reality is the domain of the real, if it does not exist in reality then it does not exist. There is only one reality, things either exists or they do not, even if they exist in a different dimension.

If we did all have a unique version of reality then we would disagree on objective facts, which we don't.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 01:39:00 AM
If you can experience it, is it not real?  To me, there are infinite realities composing one universe.  Everything is real.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on November 07, 2013, 01:52:49 AM
If you can experience it, is it not real? 

Reading Willy Wonka doesn't mean that you've visited a magical chocolate factory.

To me, there are infinite realities composing one universe.

As said before, the sum of infinitely many influences is zero.

Everything is real.

Willy Wonka is just a story.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 01:54:35 AM
If you can experience it, is it not real? 

Reading Willy Wonka doesn't mean that you've visited a magical chocolate factory.

To me, there are infinite realities composing one universe.

As said before, the sum of infinitely many influences is zero.

Everything is real.

Willy Wonka is just a story.
It doesn't mean you can't visit a magical chocolate factory.  If you were to see Willy Wonka, would he not be real?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on November 07, 2013, 02:06:21 AM
It doesn't mean you can't visit a magical chocolate factory.  If you were to see Willy Wonka, would he not be real?

If I saw Willy Wonka I'd seek help.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: kentrolla on November 07, 2013, 02:39:17 AM
It doesn't mean you can't visit a magical chocolate factory.  If you were to see Willy Wonka, would he not be real?

If I saw Willy Wonka I'd seek help.

I called dank out for going to the "what is reality" argument when he first started posting here. I knew he would.

Either way. Let him think how he thinks. obviously its a fun perspective and I wouldn't want to ruin it. As long as he's not hurting anyone or himself then I think there's no problem with him thinking this way.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: drakahn on November 07, 2013, 02:41:07 AM
No, no one else believes in jesus, only you OP.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 07, 2013, 02:45:08 AM
Reading dank's posting history is a trip; he starts off completely normal, then somewhere just totally shifts personalities.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on November 07, 2013, 02:49:12 AM
Reading dank's posting history is a trip; he starts off completely normal, then somewhere just totally shifts personalities.

It was when he got the scammer tag.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: BitChick on November 07, 2013, 03:16:38 AM
No, no one else believes in jesus, only you OP.

Nope.  Me too!   ;D

OP and I seem to be outnumbered though.

And I don't have my own website to share, which might be a good thing.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: foggyb on November 07, 2013, 03:24:00 AM

God must first pass through man to reach the believer; without man, God speaks no word, and still to this day has not.  Therefore, all that God says is dependent on man being honest.  We know that man cannot be honest at all times.  Therefore, we cannot prove God's word to be God's word, we can only prove that it is man's word; ergo, God is only as omnipotent as we believe him to be.  This is just the logic I'm laying out for the believer :P  They can take it or discard it if they want.

I'm not saying the Bible is true or false; I'm saying it cannot be absolute, so God's word cannot be absolute.  We should not burn any books due to men lying for either those books are intentional lies (of which I love), or they are observable truths (such as the writing of many philosophers and scientists, which can be proven to be lies or not.)  If the individual cannot discern what is real and what is not on their own, they cannot trust any book asserted as truth, including religious texts, including political texts.  The beginning of this distrust, I believe, is by making obvious that books of absolute truth are only as honest as man, which is something any believer can relate with.

Suggestion: Look up the word omnipotent in the dictionary. The bolded statement is not logical, its logically broken. Your whole argument is utterly broken because your premise does not follow.

If God isn't omnipotent, then God isn't. The grey area you're conjuring does not exist anywhere in reality. Conditional omnipotence. Haha, that is likely the best oxymoron Ive' ever encountered. I thought jumbo shrimp was good.  :)

2nd bolded statement. No scientist seeks the truth on their own. They collaborate. That is the nature of science, it does not rely merely on individual efforts. That's why the bible has so many authors who cohesively agree on truth. I argue it is the strongest argument for truth that this world has ever seen. So to sum up my response, I fully disagree with your explanation of how we as human beings discern truth.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 03:38:25 AM
You're thinking if infinite gods are in a collective reality.  We each control our own reality which makes your alternation of conscious very relevant to your reality.

So you control your own reality?

You CHOOSE to be ten thousand dollars in debt and the laughing stock of the forum?

Why would you chose that?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 03:44:52 AM
It doesn't mean you can't visit a magical chocolate factory.  If you were to see Willy Wonka, would he not be real?

If I saw Willy Wonka I'd seek help.
If you saw Willy Wonka, you would have great abilities, just as I once saw spongebob assimilate in front of me, explode and come back together (through the altering of consciousness/mdma).

It is all real, just like the guy I met who saw dead people and interacted with a the mother of a daughter who passed away to confirm the realness of his 'hallucinations'.

Reading dank's posting history is a trip; he starts off completely normal, then somewhere just totally shifts personalities.
I evolved.

You're thinking if infinite gods are in a collective reality.  We each control our own reality which makes your alternation of conscious very relevant to your reality.

So you control your own reality?

You CHOOSE to be ten thousand dollars in debt and the laughing stock of the forum?

Why would you chose that?
I don't know, maybe so I could pay off my debt and prove to everyone dank is not a scammer, dank is a real person trying to help the world.

As far as the laughing stock of the forum - every breath of laughter you blow towards me will hit you back in the face when I fly, it is fine with me.  We laugh at what we don't understand.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 04:29:13 AM
As far as the laughing stock of the forum - every breath of laughter you blow towards me will hit you back in the face when I fly, it is fine with me.  We laugh at what we don't understand.

In the meantime, UNTIL YOU FLY, you are the joke of this forum, nut job.   ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 04:56:35 AM
Fine with me, I take all your negative energy and turn it into positive. :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Transisto on November 07, 2013, 05:04:17 AM
Wow, this thread seems like a gem for my filter,

Could anyone give me a list of the people worth not ignoring in this thread ?

I'd share my ignore list with you and maybe give a 50mBTC depending on the perceived effort.
(PM please, thx)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 06:49:17 AM
Y'all need Jesus Christ.



Bitcoins for Jesus. :) :)




So it's pretty sad how people think it's trendy to put down Jesus Christ and Christianity.


You all do realize that our modern day values are derived from Judeo-Christian values?

Including:

Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet.



Most European and American law is based on Judeo-Christian (biblical) law.


If you feel comfortable with any of the above, well, that says alot.

Jesus Christ is Lord.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4568257293454393&pid=1.7


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 07, 2013, 07:53:54 AM
Wow, this thread seems like a gem for my filter,

Could anyone give me a list of the people worth not ignoring in this thread ?

I'd share my ignore list with you and maybe give a 50mBTC depending on the perceived effort.
(PM please, thx)

Some times you just can't understand them...

I'm not one to ignore people, but it might be worth the effort atleast in two cases...

You all do realize that our modern day values are derived from Judeo-Christian values?

Including:

Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet.



Most European and American law is based on Judeo-Christian (biblical) law.


If you feel comfortable with any of the above, well, that says alot.

You know lot of people have done very well those laws under those laws, murdering thousands or millions...  They are the most obvious things around, but some how the most vocal believers don't even follow them...

And what about rest of the values? And the rules? Should those be also followed?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 07, 2013, 12:59:04 PM
..... it's pretty sad how people think it's trendy to put down Jesus Christ and Christianity.


You all do realize that our modern day values are derived from Judeo-Christian values?
....
Most European and American law is based on Judeo-Christian (biblical) law.


If you feel comfortable with any of the above, well, that says alot.
....
Actually, the very concepts of atheism as expressed in this thread were engendered within and could only be expressed and fit within a Judeo-Christian cultural background.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: hawkeye on November 07, 2013, 02:25:21 PM

Actually, the very concepts of atheism as expressed in this thread were engendered within and could only be expressed and fit within a Judeo-Christian cultural background.

I don't even know what that means.  Or what it is you are trying to say.   ???


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 05:45:28 PM
Wow, this thread seems like a gem for my filter,

Could anyone give me a list of the people worth not ignoring in this thread ?

I'd share my ignore list with you and maybe give a 50mBTC depending on the perceived effort.
(PM please, thx)

Some times you just can't understand them...

I'm not one to ignore people, but it might be worth the effort atleast in two cases...

You all do realize that our modern day values are derived from Judeo-Christian values?

Including:

Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet.



Most European and American law is based on Judeo-Christian (biblical) law.


If you feel comfortable with any of the above, well, that says alot.

You know lot of people have done very well those laws under those laws, murdering thousands or millions...  They are the most obvious things around, but some how the most vocal believers don't even follow them...

And what about rest of the values? And the rules? Should those be also followed?

Hard to understand what you are trying to say.

If your point is millions of people have been murdered anyways, then it seems you have an issue with the "Why would God let that happen" question.

The Bible talks about people who pretend to be Christians and really aren't; this type of thing effects all religions. It's up to the individual to follow a religion or just pay lip service.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: spooderman on November 07, 2013, 07:26:22 PM
i belev in juses crust. he sav mi


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 09:47:11 PM

Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet.


Let's see...

Millions have been killed in the name of JC
Billions have been stolen in the name of JC
Thousands of young boys have been molested in the name of JC.

And my favorite - the dark ages (400-800AD).  All scientific reasoning was blocked.  If you were ahead of your time and suggested something like the earth revolved around the sun, people just like AndrewWilliams and BitChick called you a witch and burned you at the stake.  If not for this religious nonsense, we would have cured cancer by now and be exploring the stars. 

Not to mention the overwhelming hypocrisy.  Coveting bitcoins on this very forum.  Posting lies about others on this very forum.  Are there any commandments that these preachers don't break themselves?

Y'all need Jesus Christ.

Clearly mankind would have been MUCH better off had he never been invented.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 10:08:12 PM
Weed cures cancer.  Jesus smoked it, but this is something that has been suppressed by leading powers.

http://phoenixtears.ca/

Yes, power craving people infiltrated religion, it does not make the basis of spirituality or god any less true.  It just shows you how premature humanity still is, all the reason more to spread the word of peace, love, and unity.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 10:23:13 PM
Weed cures cancer. 

Well, that makes you a dick for not telling the medical authorities.   :-\


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 10:29:35 PM
The problem lies therein itself, medical authorities.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 10:35:01 PM
The problem lies therein itself, medical authorities.

Ah, so because you think the system is run poorly, you'll let millions of people continue to die?

Yep, you're a dick.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 07, 2013, 10:35:51 PM
Vod. For one thing, you have been attacking people who believe in Jesus Christ on this thread, even though I have told you many times, that I did ask for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.

You stand in accusation of the brethren all the day long vod.

Do you know who the holy bible says it is, that does that?

The devil, vod.

Jesus Christ died to save sinners

You Have Got To Have Faith.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 10:38:03 PM
Vod. For one thing, you have been attacking people who believe in Jesus Christ on this thread, even though I have told you many times, that I did ask for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply to this thread.

You stand in accusation of the brethren all the day long vod.

Do you know who the holy bible says it is, that does that?

The devil, vod.

Jesus Christ died to save sinners

You Have Got To Have Faith.



Jesus christ was invented to control people.  It works well on the feeble minded.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 07, 2013, 10:39:50 PM
Wow, this thread seems like a gem for my filter,

Could anyone give me a list of the people worth not ignoring in this thread ?

I'd share my ignore list with you and maybe give a 50mBTC depending on the perceived effort.
(PM please, thx)
Might not be a good idea.  People can be nuts on one subject and very useful on others.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 10:54:49 PM

Let's see...

Millions have been killed in the name of JC
Billions have been stolen in the name of JC
Thousands of young boys have been molested in the name of JC.

And my favorite - the dark ages (400-800AD).  All scientific reasoning was blocked.  If you were ahead of your time and suggested something like the earth revolved around the sun, people just like AndrewWilliams and BitChick called you a witch and burned you at the stake.  If not for this religious nonsense, we would have cured cancer by now and be exploring the stars. 

Not to mention the overwhelming hypocrisy.  Coveting bitcoins on this very forum.  Posting lies about others on this very forum.  Are there any commandments that these preachers don't break themselves?

Y'all need Jesus Christ.

Clearly mankind would have been MUCH better off had he never been invented.

Wow, what an imagination you have.


"In the name of" ... funny, with that same term we can attribute it to any religious leader. Just because some nut says he is doing something "in the name of" does not mean he is part of the religion. I would ask what you think of the Muslim religion, but I think I already know the answer. :)


Whose coveting Bitcoin you? I certainly am not. You like to put words in people's mouths.
Maybe you should familiarize with the definition: Covet: 1. to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others.



Burning people at the stake? Sounds more like the persecution of Christians rather than the other way around. Way to twist the truth.

I wonder what your deluded selfish mind thinks about Muslim extremists burning Christian churches in Egypt?

It's people like you that love to bash other people's religions, yet never speak of their own belief systems.



It seems you (again) are the one posing lies about others on this forum.

You tongue is like a serpent's, spreading lies in every direction.


Luke 10:19. "I have give you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you."


Amen.




Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 10:57:07 PM

Let's see...

Millions have been killed in the name of JC
Billions have been stolen in the name of JC
Thousands of young boys have been molested in the name of JC.

And my favorite - the dark ages (400-800AD).  All scientific reasoning was blocked.  If you were ahead of your time and suggested something like the earth revolved around the sun, people just like AndrewWilliams and BitChick called you a witch and burned you at the stake.  If not for this religious nonsense, we would have cured cancer by now and be exploring the stars. 

Not to mention the overwhelming hypocrisy.  Coveting bitcoins on this very forum.  Posting lies about others on this very forum.  Are there any commandments that these preachers don't break themselves?

Y'all need Jesus Christ.

Clearly mankind would have been MUCH better off had he never been invented.

Wow, what an imagination you have.

LOL - go ahead and deny it bible boy.  These atrocities against humanity in the name of your god are well documented.





Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
Oh, and to address your ignorance regarding the Christians and the Dark Ages (lest your ignorance continues):


http://www.quora.com/History/Did-Christianity-cause-the-Dark-Ages#

History: Did Christianity cause the Dark Ages?

Humphrey Clarke, MA in Modern History - University of St Andrews
Votes by Tim O'Neill, Pamela Dennett Grennes, Joe Geronimo Martinez, Rotaru Eugenio, and 37 more.




Did Christianity usher in the dark ages? The term ‘dark ages’ has not been defined by the questioner but it commonly refers to the cultural and economic deterioration that occurred in Western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire. There are normally two aspects to what might be termed the ‘Christianity guilt thesis’; firstly that Christianity was a significant contributing factor to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire and secondly that the new religion was hostile to classical learning and did not foster and preserve enough of it as the empire collapsed.

The first theory has an illustrious pedigree as it was promoted by Edward Gibbon in chapter 39 of his Magnus Opus ‘The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’. Gibbon speculated that ‘the introduction, or at least the abuse of Christianity, had some influence on the decline and fall of the Roman empire’. His view was that Christianity broke the ideological unity of the Empire and hindered the state’s ability to win support. Financial and human resources were diverted from vital material ends and discontent was fostered, thus undermining imperial legitimacy.

As a broad general theory Gibbon’s view has very little going for it. In the first instance, any explanation which is proffered for the fall of the Roman Empire has to contend with the fact that the eastern half of the Roman Empire remained relatively strong and stable while the western half collapsed. The Eastern half was even more Christian than the Western half and yet, not only did it not collapse, it continued as the Byzantine Empire into the 15th century.

Does Gibbon’s theory work at a lower level to show Christianity was a contributing factor? Here too it suffers from a lack of evidence. While Christianity ushered in something akin to a cultural revolution following the conversion of Constantine it is hard to see that this had a seriously deleterious effect on the empire. Christian religious institutions did require large financial resources; however these were replacing pagan religious institutions with large endowments (which were progressively confiscated). Therefore the rise of Christian organisations appears to have largely involved a religious to religious transfer of assets rather than a diversion from secular coffers.

Similarly the manpower lost to the cloister appears to have been minimal – maybe something in the region of a few thousand individuals – hardly a massive dent to the Empire’s manpower. A handful of the aristocracy gave up their wealth and power for a life of Christian devotion – a figure which is insignificant compared to the numbers that chose to serve in the imperial bureaucracy.

Did Christianity undermine the ideological unity of the Empire? No; in fact religion and the empire acted to foster unity with the Christian God cast as inspiring Roman Imperialism with a mission to conquer, convert and civilise the world. Emperors were seen as hand-picked by God, thus imbibing them with sacred status. Rejection of the Empire was only a fringe position among Christian thinkers.

Did the Christian squabbling over doctrine undermine the Empire? Again there is little evidence for this. Certainly histories of the time are dominated by theological disputes, thereby giving an impression of religious frenzy and discord. This is because the sources for this period are largely Church histories. It would be like relying on the memoirs of Fred Phleps for a history of the early 21st century United States. In fact secular minded historians like Ammianus Marcellinus barely mention doctrinal disputes. Large scale rioting occurred on a few occasions but by and large conflict was confined to the bishops.

To sum up Christianisation appears to have been effectively subsumed into the structures of the Empire and many historians argue that it acted as a stabilising influence. Gibbon’s theory has thereby been turned on its head.

What about the second theory? Did the rise of Christianity cause a malaise in intellectual culture and usher in a scientific dark age.

There was undeniably a decline in scientific knowledge in the Western Roman Empire as it and collapsed but the roots of this are deep and can be traced to the pagan Romans. After 200 BC there was a fruitful cultural contact between Greeks and the bilingual Roman upper classes. This introduced a version of the classical tradition into the Roman Empire but it was a thin popularised version which was translated into Latin. Bilingualism and the conditions which favoured scholarship then declined rapidly after AD180 as the empire entered the 3rd century crisis. The chaos of the 3rd century AD caused disruption to educational infrastructure and the division of the empire into two caused knowledge of Greek to decline in the west . Roman citizens who were gradually becoming Christian were therefore limited to pieces of the classical tradition which had been explained and summarised by Latin authors.

Intellectual culture then declined dramatically in the west due to the collapse of central control in the west under the barbarian onslaught, the decline of literacy and loss of Greek, the reduction of trade, sharp falls in population density and the sheer amount of destruction. Western Empire was overrun by illiterate Germanic and Northern barbarians from the fourth to the eleventh century utterly destroying the Imperial infrastructure. Meanwhile the richer, more complete version of the classical tradition fell into the hands of the Muslims as they rapidly expanded across Asia and the Mediterranean. It was then translated into Arabic, further developed and moved across North Africa to Spain. As soon as Western Europe had recovered sufficiently its intellectuals travelled to Spain to translate the materials and bring them into medieval culture.
But was there an anti-intellectual streak in early Christian culture which made it a haven of anti-scientific sentiment? Here the most commonly quoted example is Tertullian, who famously said 'What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?' in fiery opposition to the classical tradition. Ultimately however, this counter-cultural point of view was a minority position which lost out to those like Justin Martyr who sought common ground between classical philosophy and Christianity, and (more importantly) Augustine of Hippo. Augustine - while being ambivalent toward Greek learning - applied it vigorously to scripture in his writings and came up with the vastly influential 'handmaiden formula' whereby natural philosophy could be put to use in the interpretation of the bible (Of course we now all think that – in principle - science should be studied for its own sake, but this would have been alien to the classical world in which it was always subordinated to ethics and the wider philosophical enterprise). The handmaiden formula was employed throughout the Middle Ages to justify the investigation of nature.

Ultimately the second theory fails because Christianity is the most important framework within which late-antique culture survived. Far from intellectual dullards, Christians appear to have been very interested in Greek philosophy, science and medicine which they preserved through a laborious process of hand-copying. These include the works of Euclid, Ptolemy, Plato, Aristotle, Galen, Simplicius and many more, including a staggering 15,000 pages of Greek commentary on Aristotle dating from the 2nd to 6th centuries AD. The medical works of Galen makes up a full fifth of the entire surviving classical Greek corpus – some two million words all copied out by hand and preserved over the centuries.

Of course some might argue that the Christians should have preserved more works of ancient ‘scientists’- for example the lost works of Neokles of Kroton (who argued that toads has two livers – one poisonous and one healthful – and that the moon was inhabited by the Nemean Lion). To address this I have devised a ‘Dark Ages Boot Camp’ where the critics will be forced to don a monk’s habit and hand-copy Bill Bryson’s ‘A short History of nearly everything’ onto papyrus while extras dressed as barbarians smash up their stuff.

To conclude then, the two Christianity guilt theories suffer from a lack of evidence. They persist purely due to their illustrious pedigree and the fact that people insist on making the past fit into a modern framework.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 10:59:33 PM
http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-people-have-died-in-religious-conflicts

809 MILLION people have died since the invention of religion.    :o
 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 11:13:20 PM
http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-people-have-died-in-religious-conflicts

809 MILLION people have died since the invention of religion.    :o
 





Vod refuses to discuss his beliefs while ridiculing others. Hypocrisy at it's finest.




Something tells me he is the type of person that goes into weddings uninvited. Than bashes the hosts when they ask him who the hell he is...

Vod, this is a thread discussing Jesus Christ. The creator asked you to butt out. Maybe you should do the opposite of what the little devil on your left shoulder is telling you, and split.

It's obvious you came here to troll as you do in many other threads, so pack up your lunch box, it's time for your nap. You seem a little cranky. :o


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
Vod refuses to discuss his beliefs while ridiculing others. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

I guess we have to add "hypocrisy" to the list of words you cultists have a unique definition for.  I would be a hypocrite if I forced you to reveal your beliefs while refusing to reveal mine.  Understand the difference bible boy?  You are a hypocrite because you demand others follow the commandments you yourself are breaking.

I'm a scientist.  I was brainwashed as a child but luckily I was intelligent enough to see the light when I turned 13 or so.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 07, 2013, 11:19:44 PM
What I think of this Jesus and Trinity stuff is that God is not very nice guy... And as such isn't worth worship... And as proxy the Jesus isn't either, because they are the same.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 11:22:56 PM
Vod refuses to discuss his beliefs while ridiculing others. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

I guess we have to add "hypocrisy" to the list of words you cultists have a unique definition for.  I would be a hypocrite if I forced you to reveal your beliefs while refusing to reveal mine.  Understand the difference bible boy?  You are a hypocrite because you demand others follow the commandments you yourself are breaking.

I'm a scientist.  I was brainwashed as a child but luckily I was intelligent enough to see the light when I turned 13 or so.

Sorry, I forgot you are have magical powers to determine I am breaking the commandments  ::)


Finally Vod reveals his beliefs. That took a lot of poking! ;)

A scientist...  ROFL

Science is given to us by God, you should remember that.



Sounds you like you bumped your head when you turned 13. You have many anti-social tendencies that even you fellow "scientists" do not share.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 11:25:42 PM
Science is given to us by God, you should remember that.

Sounds you like you bumped your head when you turned 13.

Your god was invented by ignorant people, you should remember that.

It wasn't anything profound that happened to me at 13 - the BS the priests were spewing no longer made sense and when I started asking questions they told me to just believe.

Are you aware the computer you are typing on was invented by a scientist?  Or do you think your god made it just for you?   :D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 11:28:15 PM
What I think of this Jesus and Trinity stuff is that God is not very nice guy... And as such isn't worth worship... And as proxy the Jesus isn't either, because they are the same.




Let me guess, another "scientist?" ::)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 07, 2013, 11:29:46 PM
What I think of this Jesus and Trinity stuff is that God is not very nice guy... And as such isn't worth worship... And as proxy the Jesus isn't either, because they are the same.




Let me guess, another "scientist?" ::)

No just a sane engineer.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 11:30:55 PM

Your god was invented by ignorant people, you should remember that.

It wasn't anything profound that happened to me at 13 - the BS the priests were spewing no longer made sense and when I started asking questions they told me to just believe.

Are you aware the computer you are typing on was invented by a scientist?  Or do you think your god made it just for you?   :D



Maybe I should worship carpenters because they made by chair. :o

Get real!



Ignorance is yours and yours alone. God is obviously punishing you. :/


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 11:32:02 PM
Ignorance is yours and yours alone. God is obviously punishing you.

So your god punishes people for using their brain.  No wonder atheism is the fastest growing movement in the world. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 07, 2013, 11:33:51 PM
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/DWB/no_estimates.jpg

It's worth pointing out that this is about the ratio between people who have killed in God's name and people who have killed in Satan's name.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 11:35:08 PM
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/DWB/no_estimates.jpg

It's worth pointing out that this is about the ratio between people who have killed in God's name and people who have killed in Satan's name.

And those are the numbers up to the point the bible was written.  Almost a billion have been killed in his god's name since then.  0 for satan.  He seems like a nice guy.  :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 11:38:22 PM

It's worth pointing out that this is about the ratio between people who have killed in God's name and people who have killed in Satan's name.


Looks like Satan fooled you.... he got you real good, didn't he?


From digitallius:

"The scripture clearly states that without the indwelling spirit of God that scripture cannot be understood in its true form because the scripture is spiritually breathed (inspired)1 Corinthians 2:14
"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned."

So until a person receives God's spirit they cannot see truth and are a slave to the world the flesh and the devil. "


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 07, 2013, 11:39:13 PM
Looks like Satan fooled you.... he got you real good, didn't he?


I'm afraid I only respond to calls to reason.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 11:46:39 PM
Vod, this is a thread discussing Jesus Christ. The creator asked you to butt out. Maybe you should do the opposite of what the little devil on your left shoulder is telling you, and split.

If the OP wants a one way conversation, with everyone patting each other on the back and no real discussion, have him post on one the cult boards where they censor reasonable people.  This is an open forum and non-brainwashed people can contribute here.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 07, 2013, 11:48:07 PM
The problem lies therein itself, medical authorities.

Ah, so because you think the system is run poorly, you'll let millions of people continue to die?

Yep, you're a dick.
You have a fear of death, death is not bad, rather a neutral transition.  It is beautiful.

And foremost, I don't let people die, people let their selves die.

How many people have you told weed cures cancer?  None?  Well y u letin errybody dye?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 11:49:47 PM
How many people have you told weed cures cancer?  None?  Well y u letin errybody dye?

How many people have YOU told that Pez candy cures Parkinson's disease?  None?  Why are you letting those people suffer?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 07, 2013, 11:52:35 PM
Looks like Satan fooled you.... he got you real good, didn't he?


I'm afraid I only respond to calls to reason.


Call it what you may, dear.



If the OP wants a one way conversation, with everyone patting each other on the back and no real discussion, have him post on one the cult boards where they censor reasonable people.  This is an open forum and non-brainwashed people can contribute here.

Any thread on here is for discussion. You like to bash more than discuss.

Please report back to your space ship for UN-brainwashing :D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 07, 2013, 11:53:32 PM
Please report back to your space ship for UN-brainwashing :D

I was able to un-brainwash myself rather easily. 


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 08, 2013, 12:00:59 AM
Please report back to your space ship for UN-brainwashing :D

I was able to un-brainwash myself rather easily. 


Yes, I know. Your science and computers will save you.

All hail Einstein! All hail Newton!



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mike Christ on November 08, 2013, 12:03:25 AM
Call it what you may, dear.

You're pathetic.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 12:03:51 AM
Call it what you may, dear.

You're pathetic.

I'd say everyone except the brainwashed would agree with you on that one.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: AndrewWilliams on November 08, 2013, 12:08:11 AM
Call it what you may, dear.

You're pathetic.


You should keep your evil girl avatar, it really suits your personality.

Lerch.




I'd say everyone except the brainwashed would agree with you on that one.


Maybe you two should get together and form a coven.

Vod: I hate Christians!
Mike: Me too!
Vod: Cool! Let's make fun of them!
Mike: OK!


Derp, derp. Water seeks its own level.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 12:12:37 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 08, 2013, 12:16:08 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.

If everyone was good, world would be nicer place.

So, the problem is just humans. And that one isn't fixable very soon...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 12:58:19 AM
It's as soon as we make it.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 01:08:48 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
I'm sure that's pretty much the exact same thing other religions are saying about their gods.  If everybody would respect one another and treat them like decent human beings, then we would have world peace.  Almost all wars have something to do with religion, and saying that everybody following your's would fix things is the exact kind of thinking that got us into those messes.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: yogi on November 08, 2013, 01:10:38 AM
All hail Einstein! All hail Newton!

Don't forget Darwin. Do you believe in evolution?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 01:22:05 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
I'm sure that's pretty much the exact same thing other religions are saying about their gods.  If everybody would respect one another and treat them like decent human beings, then we would have world peace.  Almost all wars have something to do with religion, and saying that everybody following your's would fix things is the exact kind of thinking that got us into those messes.
It sounds like thirst for power/greed/hate is the cause of wars, all things religions teach against.

Everyone should follow their own religion, their own sense of morals and spirituality.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 01:26:53 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
I'm sure that's pretty much the exact same thing other religions are saying about their gods.  If everybody would respect one another and treat them like decent human beings, then we would have world peace.  Almost all wars have something to do with religion, and saying that everybody following your's would fix things is the exact kind of thinking that got us into those messes.
It sounds like thirst for power/greed/hate is the cause of wars, all things religions teach against.

Everyone should follow their own religion, their own sense of morals and spirituality.

You say the exact opposite from one post to another.  Nut job.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 01:35:29 AM
Except I didn't.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 01:39:55 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
Everyone should follow their own religion, their own sense of morals and spirituality.

Except that you did, nut job.  70 mins apart too - your memory must be hurting from all the damage to your brain.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 01:41:54 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
Everyone should follow their own religion, their own sense of morals and spirituality.

Except that you did, nut job.  70 mins apart too - your memory must be hurting from all the damage to your brain.
Beat me to saying it, it's really hard to debate someone when the stance you're up against keeps changing :-\


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 02:12:17 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
Everyone should follow their own religion, their own sense of morals and spirituality.

Except that you did, nut job.  70 mins apart too - your memory must be hurting from all the damage to your brain.
If everyone did what Jesus did, loved unconditionally, is not the same as branding to a specific religion.  If everyone followed their own consciousness for the answers, we would all become jesus, because we all are one being.

If you can't understand the words of someone who gives the answer, perhaps you should look within for it.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 02:18:56 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
Everyone should follow their own religion, their own sense of morals and spirituality.

Except that you did, nut job.  70 mins apart too - your memory must be hurting from all the damage to your brain.
If everyone did what Jesus did, loved unconditionally, is not the same as branding to a specific religion.  If everyone followed their own consciousness for the answers, we would all become jesus, because we all are one being.

If you can't understand the words of someone who gives the answer, perhaps you should look within for it.
In that case, how about we cut out the Jesus part and just treat each other with respect and decency?  Don't need religion to be a good person.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 02:21:04 AM
If you can't understand the words of someone who gives the answer, perhaps you should look within for it.

If you can't express yourself without constant contradiction, you should stop the drug use before you become a vegetable.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 02:43:08 AM
If everyone followed the teachings of Jesus and became jesus, we would have world peace, we would have heaven.  The failure to do so rests in the hands of man, not religion or god.
Everyone should follow their own religion, their own sense of morals and spirituality.

Except that you did, nut job.  70 mins apart too - your memory must be hurting from all the damage to your brain.
If everyone did what Jesus did, loved unconditionally, is not the same as branding to a specific religion.  If everyone followed their own consciousness for the answers, we would all become jesus, because we all are one being.

If you can't understand the words of someone who gives the answer, perhaps you should look within for it.
In that case, how about we cut out the Jesus part and just treat each other with respect and decency?  Don't need religion to be a good person.
You'll still evolve to be jesus, god.

Vod, your perception wants to think I contradicted myself, when I in fact didn't. :)

Using Jesus is the same as finding the answers within, for Jesus is you.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 02:50:12 AM
You'll still evolve to be jesus, god.

Vod, your perception wants to think I contradicted myself, when I in fact didn't. :)

Using Jesus is the same as finding the answers within, for Jesus is you.

In terms of this thread, "jesus" is a leader in the christian cult.  Are you saying I am a cult leader, or evolving to be one?  Should everyone be following my teachings?  They are simple - abandon your imaginary gods and simply be good to one another.  That goes for ALL cults, everywhere.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 03:20:49 AM
You'll still evolve to be jesus, god.

Vod, your perception wants to think I contradicted myself, when I in fact didn't. :)

Using Jesus is the same as finding the answers within, for Jesus is you.

In terms of this thread, "jesus" is a leader in the christian cult.  Are you saying I am a cult leader, or evolving to be one?  Should everyone be following my teachings?  They are simple - abandon your imaginary gods and simply be good to one another.  That goes for ALL cults, everywhere.


Maybe Vod should practice what he preaches, and stop calling people 'nut jobs'.....


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 03:23:03 AM
You'll still evolve to be jesus, god.

Vod, your perception wants to think I contradicted myself, when I in fact didn't. :)

Using Jesus is the same as finding the answers within, for Jesus is you.

In terms of this thread, "jesus" is a leader in the christian cult.  Are you saying I am a cult leader, or evolving to be one?  Should everyone be following my teachings?  They are simple - abandon your imaginary gods and simply be good to one another.  That goes for ALL cults, everywhere.


Maybe Vod should practice what he preaches, and stop calling people 'nut jobs'.....

Ok, give me another word to convey someone who has lost touch with reality...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 03:24:55 AM
The Gospel of John Chapter 1

John 1

New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 03:27:37 AM
You'll still evolve to be jesus, god.

Vod, your perception wants to think I contradicted myself, when I in fact didn't. :)

Using Jesus is the same as finding the answers within, for Jesus is you.

In terms of this thread, "jesus" is a leader in the christian cult.  Are you saying I am a cult leader, or evolving to be one?  Should everyone be following my teachings?  They are simple - abandon your imaginary gods and simply be good to one another.  That goes for ALL cults, everywhere.


Maybe Vod should practice what he preaches, and stop calling people 'nut jobs'.....

Ok, give me another word to convey someone who has lost touch with reality...
We should call them Danks, he's so nuts he deserves to be a word ;D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 03:33:14 AM




1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.




In the beginning was the word! The word was in the beginning.

The Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The Word.

The Word Of God.

The Living Word Of God.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 03:34:24 AM
Why are you posting random quotes from a 2000 year old book?  Do you think that's going to convince anyone who is not already brainwashed?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 03:36:16 AM




1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.




In the beginning was the word! The word was in the beginning.

The Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The Word.

The Word Of God.

The Living Word Of God.
Quoting The Bible to prove Christianity is like proving magic exists by quoting Harry Potter.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 03:38:37 AM
You'll still evolve to be jesus, god.

Vod, your perception wants to think I contradicted myself, when I in fact didn't. :)

Using Jesus is the same as finding the answers within, for Jesus is you.

In terms of this thread, "jesus" is a leader in the christian cult.  Are you saying I am a cult leader, or evolving to be one?  Should everyone be following my teachings?  They are simple - abandon your imaginary gods and simply be good to one another.  That goes for ALL cults, everywhere.
You don't really get what Jesus was.  Jesus was someone who loved everyone unconditionally, he knew teaching love in a hateful world would have him killed, and he did it anyway.  Jesus is a man who found god within himself (through altering consciousness) and taught others to believe in him for eternal salvation, which is what he offers, because he is you.  Jesus was an alien by all means - a multidimensional being who chose to teach god/love on earth well before departing for this hell, just as you will evolve to be.

We've got bigger 'cults' to worry about than Christianity, the roots of Christianity is to be loving and Christlike.

Why aren't you concerned about a much more dangerous cult such as the world governments?  The roots of the government is to govern and control, and we know this can only be done by force.  I hope you can realize all the bastardization of Jesus was done by - not Jesus - but power hungry humans.

Just call them Jesus, my beliefs are just about as crazy as his.





1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.




In the beginning was the word! The word was in the beginning.

The Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The Word.

The Word Of God.

The Living Word Of God.
Quoting The Bible to prove Christianity is like proving magic exists by quoting Harry Potter.
There is truth, meaning in these words.  You must see them for what they are.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 03:41:49 AM


Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.


Through him all things were made! All things! All!

Without him nothing was made that has been made. ( This is Jesus that is being talked about  by John )


Jesus therefore knew all about the tiny things that people are looking at through little pieces of glass nowadays.
Why?
Because it was all made through him. Through him.

In him was life.....!!!! There is life in Jesus

and that life is the light of all mankind.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (in other versions it says that the 'darkness does not comprehend it ')





Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 03:42:02 AM
You don't really get what Jesus was.  Jesus was someone who loved everyone unconditionally, he knew teaching love in a hateful world would have him killed, and he did it anyway.  Jesus is a man who found god within himself (through altering consciousness) and taught others to believe in him for eternal salvation, which is what he offers, because he is you.  Jesus was an alien by all means - a multidimensional being who chose to teach god/love on earth well before departing for this hell, just as you will evolve to be.

So don't tell people I am jesus, nut job.  I don't love unconditionally, and I'm not a teacher.  


We've got bigger 'cults' to worry about than Christianity, the roots of Christianity is to be loving and Christlike.

Nope - christianity is the biggest cult out there right now.  


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 03:42:46 AM


Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.


Through him all things were made! All things! All!

Without him nothing was made that has been made. ( This is Jesus that is being talked about  by John )


Jesus therefore knew all about the tiny things that people are looking at through little pieces of glass nowadays.
Why?
Because it was all made through him. Through him.

In him was life.....!!!! There is life in Jesus

and that life is the light of all mankind.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (in other versions it says that the 'darkness does not comprehend it ')





I'm sorry for your loss of reality.  :(


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 03:47:00 AM
You don't really get what Jesus was.  Jesus was someone who loved everyone unconditionally, he knew teaching love in a hateful world would have him killed, and he did it anyway.  Jesus is a man who found god within himself (through altering consciousness) and taught others to believe in him for eternal salvation, which is what he offers, because he is you.  Jesus was an alien by all means - a multidimensional being who chose to teach god/love on earth well before departing for this hell, just as you will evolve to be.

So don't tell people I am jesus, nut job.  I don't love unconditionally, and I'm not a teacher. 
Well you have a choice to make.  Love unconditionally or try again another life on some other earth.  Because this one is turning into heaven with or without you.

Nope - christianity is the biggest cult out there right now.  
This is by far more delusional than anything that's come out of my mouth.

Please research the government and this thing called war.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 03:47:13 AM
The Gospel of John Chapter 1

John 1

New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


Anyone else like the book of John? (its been one of my favorites ever since I read it)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 03:51:33 AM
Anyone else like the book of John? (its been one of my favorites ever since I read it)

I like the book "Go Boy" by Roger Caron.  It's actually based on reality. 

What other books do normal people like?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 03:52:24 AM
Anyone else like the book of John? (its been one of my favorites ever since I read it)

I like the book "Go Boy" by Roger Caron.  It's actually based on reality. 

What other books do normal people like?
The God Delusion was a good one, think some of the people in this thread need to read it..


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 03:53:57 AM


John the Baptist Denies Being the Messiah

19 Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders[c] in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20 He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.”

21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

He answered, “No.”

22 Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”

23 John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’”[d]

24 Now the Pharisees who had been sent 25 questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

26 “I baptize with[e] water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

28 This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 03:54:46 AM
Uh oh - he started posting in bold to drown out the non-believers.   ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 03:56:47 AM

Still the book of John - Chapter 1

John Testifies About Jesus

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”[f]


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 03:57:04 AM
Uh oh - he started posting in bold to drown out the non-believers.   ;)
When you have no more valid points to make, bolding is always the way to go.  Either that or caps-lock us to death


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 03:58:25 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great

This is the book I am reading right now.   :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 03:59:45 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great

This is the book I am reading right now.   :)
Looks like a good one, think I might read that one next  :D


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:03:39 AM
Book of John, chapter 1 'still'

John’s Disciples Follow Jesus

35 The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!

37 When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 38 Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, “What do you want?”

They said, “Rabbi” (which means “Teacher”), “where are you staying?”

39 “Come,” he replied, “and you will see.”

So they went and saw where he was staying, and they spent that day with him. It was about four in the afternoon.

40 Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41 The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42 And he brought him to Jesus.

Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter[g]).


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:04:13 AM
Chapter Two from "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Two: Religion Kills
In this chapter, Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question he was asked on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting? Hitchens answers,
“   Just to stay within the letter 'B', I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case ... I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.[4]   ”
He gives detailed descriptions of the tense social and political situations within these cities, which he personally experienced and attributes to religion. He has thus "not found it a prudent rule to seek help as the prayer meeting breaks up."[5]
Next he discusses the 1989 fatwa issued on author and friend Salman Rushdie by the Ayatollah Khomeini because of the contents of his book The Satanic Verses.[5] He goes on to criticise several public figures for laying the blame for the incident on Rushdie himself. He also writes about the events following the September 11, 2001 attacks, describing how religion, particularly major religious figures, allowed matters to "deteriorate in the interval between the removal of the Taliban and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein."[6]


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: xkeyscore89 on November 08, 2013, 04:06:57 AM
Yes, I do. My faith is something I struggle with daily, however.

Were you forced to go to church as a child?  If so, your struggle is probably your intelligence fighting against your brainwashing.  Good luck in your struggle!

Religion, church, and a bible class 5 days a week for 11 years was something I grew up with, yes. My belief system has changed drastically since then.  Today, my belief system closely resembles that of a Deist.  I don't feel that belief in a higher power and belief in the theory of evolution are mutually exclusive ideas. I don't think the Bible was meant to be taken literally.  I'm 24 now, but from K-10th grade I was in what I can only describe as a neo-conservative Christian school. I received an excellent education there but could not tolerate their interpretation of the Bible. They took the Bible literally to the extent of believing the world was literally created in seven, 24-hour days.  They taught that the earth was 5,000 years old among many other ridiculous "facts".  Fundamental to this dogma was the teaching that there was an imminent apocalypse predicted by the book of Revelation where non-believers would be slaughtered and sent to hell for all eternity. For much of my young life, I was inundated with all manner of scare tactics involving hell and was told to believe there was only one way to heaven.  I was taught to believe other religions were an abomination. I prayed out of fear of going to hell.  At 13 or 14 years old, I'd had enough and began to wake up, using basic scientific theory and logic to question and systematically reject these teachings.  After experiencing life at a public high school and a large university, I came to reject the idea of God or a higher power altogether for quite a while.  I came to believe that morals and values were irrelevant. I was even more depressed than usual and felt that my life had no purpose or meaning.

Today, I have experienced no great awakening or life changing experience. Instead, I've noticed that an atheist perspective erodes my mental and spiritual health rapidly and provides no tangible benefit to me. I embrace the theory of evolution and other scientific theory knowing that my belief system is no longer directly contradicted by it. I try to embrace spiritual principles rather than religion. I pray to express gratitude or seek clarity now. I've accepted that I will never find irrefutable evidence to support my faith and I no longer feel as if I need it.

My faith is still fragile, but after fully rejecting a belief system rooted in politics, literal Biblical translation and borderline fanaticism, I'm content with my current Deist perspective and see opportunity for future growth. I'm starting to see evidence that the beliefs I've adopted are conducive my mental, emotional and social well-being.

Vod, you were absolutely right. My intelligence struggled against and eventually overcame my brainwashing.  I strive to be more open-minded now, and to me that includes the distinct possibility that there exists a power greater than myself.



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:07:36 AM
The Book of John, the end of chapter 1

Jesus Calls Philip and Nathanael

43 The next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee. Finding Philip, he said to him, “Follow me.”

44 Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

46 “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” Nathanael asked.

“Come and see,” said Philip.

47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”

48 “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.

Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.”

49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”

50 Jesus said, “You believe[h] because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that.” 51 He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you[j] will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’[k] the Son of Man.”


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:08:51 AM
Chapter four of "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Four: A Note On Health, To Which Religion May Be Hazardou
In this chapter, Hitchens explains how some religions can be hostile to treating diseases. He writes that many Muslims saw the polio vaccine as a conspiracy, and thus allowed polio to spread.[10] He goes on to discuss the Catholic Church's response to the spread of HIV in Africa, telling people that condoms are ineffective, which, he argues, contributes to the death toll.[11] He notes with examples that some in both the Catholic and the Muslim communities believe irrationally that HIV and HPV are punishment for sexual sin—particularly homosexuality.[12] He describes religious leaders as "faith healers", and opines that they are hostile to medicine because it undermines their position of power.[13]
He then criticises the Jewish ritual of circumcision that would have him "take a baby boy's penis in my hand, cut around the prepuce, and complete the action by taking his penis in my mouth, sucking off the foreskin, and spitting out the amputated flap along with a mouthful of blood and saliva", and denounces the traditional African practice of female genital mutilation. He concludes the chapter writing of the religious "wish for obliteration" — for a death in the form of the day of the Apocalypse.

Sorry xkeyscore89, you posted at a poor time.  We're currently in a quote-off!  :)



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: xkeyscore89 on November 08, 2013, 04:11:29 AM
Chapter four of "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Four: A Note On Health, To Which Religion May Be Hazardou
In this chapter, Hitchens explains how some religions can be hostile to treating diseases. He writes that many Muslims saw the polio vaccine as a conspiracy, and thus allowed polio to spread.[10] He goes on to discuss the Catholic Church's response to the spread of HIV in Africa, telling people that condoms are ineffective, which, he argues, contributes to the death toll.[11] He notes with examples that some in both the Catholic and the Muslim communities believe irrationally that HIV and HPV are punishment for sexual sin—particularly homosexuality.[12] He describes religious leaders as "faith healers", and opines that they are hostile to medicine because it undermines their position of power.[13]
He then criticises the Jewish ritual of circumcision that would have him "take a baby boy's penis in my hand, cut around the prepuce, and complete the action by taking his penis in my mouth, sucking off the foreskin, and spitting out the amputated flap along with a mouthful of blood and saliva", and denounces the traditional African practice of female genital mutilation. He concludes the chapter writing of the religious "wish for obliteration" — for a death in the form of the day of the Apocalypse.

Sorry xkeyscore89, you posted at a poor time.  We're currently in a quote-off!  :)

I'm sorry to interrupt, let's continue at your earliest convenience. :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:12:27 AM
Yes, I do. My faith is something I struggle with daily, however.

Were you forced to go to church as a child?  If so, your struggle is probably your intelligence fighting against your brainwashing.  Good luck in your struggle!

Religion, church, and a bible class 5 days a week for 11 years was something I grew up with, yes. My belief system has changed drastically since then.  Today, my belief system closely resembles that of a Deist.  I don't feel that belief in a higher power and belief in the theory of evolution are mutually exclusive ideas. I don't think the Bible was meant to be taken literally.  I'm 24 now, but from K-10th grade I was in what I can only describe as a neo-conservative Christian school. I received an excellent education there but could not tolerate their interpretation of the Bible. They took the Bible literally to the extent of believing the world was literally created in seven, 24-hour days.  They taught that the earth was 5,000 years old among many other ridiculous "facts".  Fundamental to this dogma was the teaching that there was an imminent apocalypse predicted by the book of Revelation where non-believers would be slaughtered and sent to hell for all eternity. For much of my young life, I was inundated with all manner of scare tactics involving hell and was told to believe there was only one way to heaven.  I was taught to believe other religions were an abomination. I prayed out of fear of going to hell.  At 13 or 14 years old, I'd had enough and began to wake up, using basic scientific theory and logic to question and systematically reject these teachings.  After experiencing life at a public high school and a large university, I came to reject the idea of God or a higher power altogether for quite a while.  I came to believe that morals and values were irrelevant. I was even more depressed than usual and felt that my life had no purpose or meaning.
This right here is the harm in religion.  We teach children beliefs that have no evidence whatsoever while they are very impressionable, and it makes it harder for them to figure out the truth of the world (If they ever do).  Heck, if everybody was religious, we'd probably just pray to god to cure someone's cancer instead of using all the advanced medical treatments that science has come up with.  This is one of the many reasons America has fallen behind, the fact that we're one of the most religious countries is hindering us big-time.  Not to say there's not a lot of other reasons, but it's up there..


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:13:05 AM

I reported you to the moderator again vod, asking them to prevent you from posting in this thread. I think you are sick in the head.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:14:24 AM

I reported you to the moderator again vod, asking them to prevent you from posting in this thread. I think you are sick in the head.

Quote from: just_me


I was surrounded by angels, all in white, with wings.

They did not move at all, but went everywhere with me.

Every which way I turned, the angels were there like stones, immovable.


Vast power seemed to come from them.

So much power that i was terrified.

The feeling is quite mutual you nut job, except I know you are sick in the head.   ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:15:17 AM

I reported you to the moderator again vod, asking them to prevent you from posting in this thread. I think you are sick in the head.
Lol, the guy that believes we were all created by some guy in the sky that's always watching us is calling people sick in the head.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:16:27 AM



God Bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:18:22 AM

God Bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:18:47 AM

I did not take bible study as a child.

I did not believe in Jesus Christ until I was 34 years old.

In the early days after I first believed in Jesus Christ,
Without having read the holy bible, I quoted scriptures that I had never read.

Oh?  Well, I didn't know that... sure, by all means continue to wreck this thread with useless posts from a useless book.  Drown out all intelligent contribution.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:19:52 AM
God bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:20:05 AM


I was surrounded by angels, all in white, with wings.

They did not move at all, but went everywhere with me.

Every which way I turned, the angels were there like stones, immovable.


Vast power seemed to come from them.

So much power that i was terrified.
Okay, now you've gone from religious to just insane.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:20:47 AM


I was surrounded by angels, all in white, with wings.

They did not move at all, but went everywhere with me.

Every which way I turned, the angels were there like stones, immovable.


Vast power seemed to come from them.

So much power that i was terrified.
Okay, now you've gone from religious to just insane.

I challenge you to show a difference.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:22:15 AM
God Bless You


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:23:22 AM

I quoted scriptures I had never read because a spirit spoke them to me.

Take a look at the first post of this page.  I quoted you before you even wrote the words!   :o


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:23:49 AM



God Bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:23:54 AM

I did not take bible study as a child.

I did not believe in Jesus Christ until I was 34 years old.

In the early days after I first believed in Jesus Christ,
Without having read the holy bible, I quoted scriptures that I had never read.


I quoted scriptures I had never read because a spirit spoke them to me.
Or there's a chance that you had read them and forgotten, memory can be a strange thing.



I was surrounded by angels, all in white, with wings.

They did not move at all, but went everywhere with me.

Every which way I turned, the angels were there like stones, immovable.


Vast power seemed to come from them.

So much power that i was terrified.
Okay, now you've gone from religious to just insane.

I challenge you to show a difference.
Touché...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:33:15 AM



Psalm 91

King James Version (KJV)

91 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.



If you have troubles with demons or the devil, praying psalm 91 might help.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:35:49 AM



Psalm 91

King James Version (KJV)

91 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.



If you have troubles with demons or the devil, praying psalm 91 might help.
And I see we're back to the old 'When you run out of logic, quote the Bible'.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:40:47 AM


I ask the Lord to cast out the spirits of unbelief, into outer darkness, never to return, in the name of jesus christ.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:43:36 AM
From Archie and Jughead Issue #347

Quote
Jughead:  I am hungy
Archie:  Buy a burger
Jughead:  I have no money.  I would gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today.

Word of the comic.  amen!


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:45:20 AM
I ask the Lord to cast out the spirits of unbelief, into outer darkness, never to return, in the name of jesus christ.
You sound like some guy that thinks he's a wizard.  Do you realize how stupid you sound, or does this actually make sense in your head?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
I am in the midst of performing an exorcism, to rid this thread of non-believing spirits.


I am a prophet of God, and I can cast out demons.

In the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to depart, and you are thrown into the next universe, where there is outer darknesss, and there is no one there.

In Jesus Mighty name, Let it be Done


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:47:28 AM
I ask the Lord to cast out the spirits of unbelief, into outer darkness, never to return, in the name of jesus christ.
You sound like some guy that thinks he's a wizard.  Do you realize how stupid you sound, or does this actually make sense in your head?

You are commanded to be silent on this thread, in Jesus Name


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:48:18 AM
I ask the Lord to cast out the spirits of unbelief, into outer darkness, never to return, in the name of jesus christ.
You sound like some guy that thinks he's a wizard.  Do you realize how stupid you sound, or does this actually make sense in your head?

You are commanded to be silent on this thread, in Jesus Name

What better way to prove that prayer doesn't work?   ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:48:44 AM
I ask the Lord to cast out the spirits of unbelief, into outer darkness, never to return, in the name of jesus christ.
You sound like some guy that thinks he's a wizard.  Do you realize how stupid you sound, or does this actually make sense in your head?

You are commanded to be silent on this thread, in Jesus Name
Aaaand I'm not silent, looks like I just outdid Jesus.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:50:16 AM
I have passed on reading this thread up until now simply due to the title. The rapid expansion caused me to finally peek in to see what is going on.
I will revisit each and every time I need to LOL.
Thank Vod for laughter!

I'd even tip, if my dust wasn't appreciating religiously fast :P

Thanks.  It's easy to be funny when all the material is just thrown in your lap!  :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:52:37 AM


God Bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:53:52 AM

Lord, even the demons believe, and they tremble


God Bless You


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 04:54:45 AM

I command you to be silent, In Jesus might name, I pray.


Some spirits will not depart or come out, except with fasting and prayer.

I am not lying.

God sometimes hears me, and actually does what I ask.

I am warning you.

God is almighty.

Hey do you have an official support thread for your website?  I think your users should know your mental state...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:55:27 AM

I command you to be silent, In Jesus might name, I pray.


Some spirits will not depart or come out, except with fasting and prayer.

I am not lying.

God sometimes hears me, and actually does what I ask.

I am warning you.

God is almighty.
Wait... you're serious?  I'm laughing so hard over here, you actually think some guy in the sky is listening to what you say, and gives two shits about if some person believes in him.  You do realize that if there was a god, we would be like ants to him, right?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:55:47 AM



God Bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 04:56:13 AM
Chapter Two from "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Two: Religion Kills
In this chapter, Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question he was asked on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting? Hitchens answers,
“   Just to stay within the letter 'B', I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case ... I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.[4]   ”
He gives detailed descriptions of the tense social and political situations within these cities, which he personally experienced and attributes to religion. He has thus "not found it a prudent rule to seek help as the prayer meeting breaks up."[5]
Next he discusses the 1989 fatwa issued on author and friend Salman Rushdie by the Ayatollah Khomeini because of the contents of his book The Satanic Verses.[5] He goes on to criticise several public figures for laying the blame for the incident on Rushdie himself. He also writes about the events following the September 11, 2001 attacks, describing how religion, particularly major religious figures, allowed matters to "deteriorate in the interval between the removal of the Taliban and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein."[6]
That's how it was before I found god too... living in fear of death.

Religion, 9/11?  9/11 was the government injecting fear into the nation to justify killing hundreds of thousands of humans for oil.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 04:58:08 AM

God bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 04:58:42 AM
Chapter Two from "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Two: Religion Kills
In this chapter, Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question he was asked on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting? Hitchens answers,
“   Just to stay within the letter 'B', I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case ... I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.[4]   ”
He gives detailed descriptions of the tense social and political situations within these cities, which he personally experienced and attributes to religion. He has thus "not found it a prudent rule to seek help as the prayer meeting breaks up."[5]
Next he discusses the 1989 fatwa issued on author and friend Salman Rushdie by the Ayatollah Khomeini because of the contents of his book The Satanic Verses.[5] He goes on to criticise several public figures for laying the blame for the incident on Rushdie himself. He also writes about the events following the September 11, 2001 attacks, describing how religion, particularly major religious figures, allowed matters to "deteriorate in the interval between the removal of the Taliban and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein."[6]
That's how it was before I found god too... living in fear of death.

Religion, 9/11?  9/11 was the government injecting fear into the nation to justify killing hundreds of thousands of humans for oil.
Fear of death is a good thing, death is the end, game over.  It's the nature of all animals to not want to die, it's just insane to think anything else.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 05:00:03 AM

vod? I am not praying.

I commanded you, in jesus name, to depart from this thread.

Sorry, but I don't recognize the authority of your cult.  My trust rating has actually gone UP since I engaged you in this thread!  :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 05:00:45 AM



God bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 05:01:35 AM
God bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 05:03:28 AM

vod? I am not praying.

I commanded you, in jesus name, to depart from this thread.

Sorry, but I don't recognize the authority of your cult.  My trust rating has actually gone UP since I engaged you in this thread!  :)


anyone who is 'licking their boob since 1970' is obviously a deranged individual.
Not much for humor, are ya?  Not everything has to be about demons and spirits..


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 05:04:08 AM



God bless you


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 05:06:40 AM


Good night, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 05:06:57 AM
Good night gentlemen.
Be sure to sleep up, insane people need lots of rest.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 08, 2013, 05:19:23 AM
I hope the last few pages will show people what is at the bottom of the slippery slope of religion.  This guy clearly needs mental help.   :(


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 05:24:25 AM
Chapter Two from "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Two: Religion Kills
In this chapter, Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question he was asked on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting? Hitchens answers,
“   Just to stay within the letter 'B', I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case ... I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.[4]   ”
He gives detailed descriptions of the tense social and political situations within these cities, which he personally experienced and attributes to religion. He has thus "not found it a prudent rule to seek help as the prayer meeting breaks up."[5]
Next he discusses the 1989 fatwa issued on author and friend Salman Rushdie by the Ayatollah Khomeini because of the contents of his book The Satanic Verses.[5] He goes on to criticise several public figures for laying the blame for the incident on Rushdie himself. He also writes about the events following the September 11, 2001 attacks, describing how religion, particularly major religious figures, allowed matters to "deteriorate in the interval between the removal of the Taliban and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein."[6]
That's how it was before I found god too... living in fear of death.

Religion, 9/11?  9/11 was the government injecting fear into the nation to justify killing hundreds of thousands of humans for oil.
Fear of death is a good thing, death is the end, game over.  It's the nature of all animals to not want to die, it's just insane to think anything else.
Also what I thought before I tried psychedelics and found god and understanding.  Death is the end of your ego, your soul lives on, consciousness cannot be killed.  When you die you are free from the restraints of earth, you become god, you can do anything you believe, if you believe you can.

When you stop living in fear of death - that is when you truly live life.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 05:51:31 AM
Chapter Two from "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Two: Religion Kills
In this chapter, Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question he was asked on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting? Hitchens answers,
“   Just to stay within the letter 'B', I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case ... I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.[4]   ”
He gives detailed descriptions of the tense social and political situations within these cities, which he personally experienced and attributes to religion. He has thus "not found it a prudent rule to seek help as the prayer meeting breaks up."[5]
Next he discusses the 1989 fatwa issued on author and friend Salman Rushdie by the Ayatollah Khomeini because of the contents of his book The Satanic Verses.[5] He goes on to criticise several public figures for laying the blame for the incident on Rushdie himself. He also writes about the events following the September 11, 2001 attacks, describing how religion, particularly major religious figures, allowed matters to "deteriorate in the interval between the removal of the Taliban and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein."[6]
That's how it was before I found god too... living in fear of death.

Religion, 9/11?  9/11 was the government injecting fear into the nation to justify killing hundreds of thousands of humans for oil.
Fear of death is a good thing, death is the end, game over.  It's the nature of all animals to not want to die, it's just insane to think anything else.
Also what I thought before I tried psychedelics and found god and understanding.  Death is the end of your ego, your soul lives on, consciousness cannot be killed.  When you die you are free from the restraints of earth, you become god, you can do anything you believe, if you believe you can.

When you stop living in fear of death - that is when you truly live life.
I had been thinking about trying psychedelics myself, but after seeing what it's done to you, think I'll just stick with my weed...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 08, 2013, 06:29:43 AM
Quote
  When you die you are free from the restraints of earth, you become god, you can do anything you believe, if you believe you can.

Good thing this is not a widespread belief. I'd be pretty lonely here after the worldwide suicide. Why are you still here?
To teach you all to come with me and live past death by consciously ascending dimensions.

Chapter Two from "God is not Great"

Quote
Chapter Two: Religion Kills
In this chapter, Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question he was asked on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting? Hitchens answers,
“   Just to stay within the letter 'B', I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case ... I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.[4]   ”
He gives detailed descriptions of the tense social and political situations within these cities, which he personally experienced and attributes to religion. He has thus "not found it a prudent rule to seek help as the prayer meeting breaks up."[5]
Next he discusses the 1989 fatwa issued on author and friend Salman Rushdie by the Ayatollah Khomeini because of the contents of his book The Satanic Verses.[5] He goes on to criticise several public figures for laying the blame for the incident on Rushdie himself. He also writes about the events following the September 11, 2001 attacks, describing how religion, particularly major religious figures, allowed matters to "deteriorate in the interval between the removal of the Taliban and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein."[6]
That's how it was before I found god too... living in fear of death.

Religion, 9/11?  9/11 was the government injecting fear into the nation to justify killing hundreds of thousands of humans for oil.
Fear of death is a good thing, death is the end, game over.  It's the nature of all animals to not want to die, it's just insane to think anything else.
Also what I thought before I tried psychedelics and found god and understanding.  Death is the end of your ego, your soul lives on, consciousness cannot be killed.  When you die you are free from the restraints of earth, you become god, you can do anything you believe, if you believe you can.

When you stop living in fear of death - that is when you truly live life.
I had been thinking about trying psychedelics myself, but after seeing what it's done to you, think I'll just stick with my weed...
Do not let fear hold you from the truth.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: cooldgamer on November 08, 2013, 07:01:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE#t=161 I'll just leave this here


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 08, 2013, 10:39:55 AM


And so, asking people to reply who believed in Jesus Christ, it turns out there are thread hi-jackers who

spend alot of  time thinking of ways of being rude pigs, so I am closing this thread.

Thank you to all the believers who did reply though. :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 17, 2013, 02:57:52 AM


I am thankful that I have been able to find other believers in Jesus Christ at bitcointalk.org, because of this thread,

and I hope that if you believe in Jesus Christ, you will post and let us all know.


 :)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: dank on November 17, 2013, 03:14:59 AM
Do you believe in the second coming of christ?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 17, 2013, 03:23:38 AM
Do you believe in the second coming of christ?



Christ has died


Christ has risen


Christ will come again





Pope Francis first Mass as Pontiff - in full
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdWZWDqhCdA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdWZWDqhCdA)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 17, 2013, 04:01:55 AM
I ask the Lord to cast out the spirits of unbelief, into outer darkness, never to return, in the name of jesus christ.
You sound like some guy that thinks he's a wizard.  Do you realize how stupid you sound, or does this actually make sense in your head?

You are commanded to be silent on this thread, in Jesus Name

What better way to prove that prayer doesn't work?   ;)

WHAT THE FUCK????

RLOL...



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 17, 2013, 04:20:08 AM


I locked this thread once before, because of thread hi-jackers, when I specifically stated in my first post

for people who believe in Jesus Christ to reply


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Vod on November 17, 2013, 07:14:19 AM

vod? I am not praying.

I commanded you, in jesus name, to depart from this thread.

Jesus is rather powerless.   :-\

Everyone should read the trust feedback OP has left.   ;)


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 17, 2013, 01:43:18 PM


vod has the spirit of the anti-christ

vod also is some kind of perverse individual who goes around on these forums with the saying: 'been licking his boob'



Now, come and reason with me, are you really going to believe such a person as vod?


I asked vod not to post in this thread, but he has responded by continually stalking and posting rude comments.

If you believe in Jesus Christ, then you likely can see where I am coming from.

Post here and let us know that you believe in Jesus Christ.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 17, 2013, 02:08:11 PM


vod has the spirit of the anti-christ

vod also is some kind of perverse individual who goes around on these forums with the saying: 'been licking his boob'



Now, come and reason with me, are you really going to believe such a person as vod?


I asked vod not to post in this thread, but he has responded by continually stalking and posting rude comments.

If you believe in Jesus Christ, then you likely can see where I am coming from.

Post here and let us know that you believe in Jesus Christ.

Who are you to say that Vod isn't part of god's plan... He is here to test you and others. You can't go against god's will now can you?



Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 17, 2013, 02:22:09 PM


vod has the spirit of the anti-christ

vod also is some kind of perverse individual who goes around on these forums with the saying: 'been licking his boob'



Now, come and reason with me, are you really going to believe such a person as vod?


I asked vod not to post in this thread, but he has responded by continually stalking and posting rude comments.

If you believe in Jesus Christ, then you likely can see where I am coming from.

Post here and let us know that you believe in Jesus Christ.

Who are you to say that Vod isn't part of god's plan... He is here to test you and others. You can't go against god's will now can you?




Are you sticking up for vod, the 'licking his boob' man, who has the spirit of the anti-christ?


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Ekaros on November 17, 2013, 02:24:00 PM


Who are you to say that Vod isn't part of god's plan... He is here to test you and others. You can't go against god's will now can you?




Are you sticking up for vod, the 'licking his boob' man, who has the spirit of the anti-christ?

How do you know I'm not the devil doing what god asked, that is testing and tormenting people? Like god did with Job...


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Spendulus on November 17, 2013, 03:31:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE#t=161 I'll just leave this here

That qualifies as weirdly cool.

Vod needs to weigh in on this rap.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 17, 2013, 07:10:44 PM


"vod has the spirit of the anti-christ

vod also is some kind of perverse individual who goes around on these forums with the saying: 'been licking his boob' "


I am happy that I have been able to find out who the believers in Jesus Christ are on bitcointalk.org

I trust people who believe in Jesus Christ, more than I trust people who do not believe.

I do not go by the trust system that was set up likely by non believers.

He who does not believe in Jesus Christ, is likely less trustworthy. Yes,  I believe that is true.

He who believes in Jesus Christ, is a priest and King with Jesus, and is obviously more trustworthy.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: Mitchell on November 17, 2013, 07:13:14 PM
Quote
I trust people who believe in Jesus Christ, more than I trust people who do not believe.
I do not go by the trust system that was set up likely by non believers.
He who does not believe in Jesus Christ, is likely less trustworthy. Yes,  I believe that is true.
He who believes in Jesus Christ, is a priest and King with Jesus, and is obviously more trustworthy.
Man, your logic is so fucked up.


Title: Re: Does Anyone Else Believe In Jesus Christ ?
Post by: just_me on November 17, 2013, 07:24:23 PM
Quote
I trust people who believe in Jesus Christ, more than I trust people who do not believe.
I do not go by the trust system that was set up likely by non believers.
He who does not believe in Jesus Christ, is likely less trustworthy. Yes,  I believe that is true.
He who believes in Jesus Christ, is a priest and King with Jesus, and is obviously more trustworthy.
Man, your logic is so fucked up.


People who reply with garbage trash like bitcoininformation, are obviously not trustworthy.

Look, if you are blind and cannot see the truth, and your ears are waxed gross, so that even when people tell you the truth,

you argue and fight and debate and garbage filth comes out of your mouth, and onto your keyboard;

then how hardly are you to be trusted by people who believe in Jesus Christ