Bitcoin Forum

I am offering a 0.5 BTC bounty to the individual who can spec out the cheapest possible Quad Core x86 system for mining momentum proof of work.

1) Must have 2+ GB of RAM
2) Must have 4+ cores
3) Must run Linux and have at least 32 GB of storage.
4) Must have a case.
5) Must have ethernet.

Everything else is optional, smaller is better.

If the system is put together from parts, add $50 to the price for labor.  

The spec must include links where such a system can be sourced in quantity.   IE: ebay and other second-hand sources do not count.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=smx8700w7p3127&model_id=xps-8700&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&

799$

I am sure I loose by 300$. ;)

This is for the Momentum proof of work which is bottlenecked at memory bandwidth. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=313479.0

ProtoShares Miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=315973.0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acer-Aspire-M-T-AME600-UR378-PC-Desktop-i7-3770-Quad-Core-3-4GHz-10GB-2TB-WiFi-/251368114490?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item3a86b5093a

this one probably. $519

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-i7-3770K-Custom-Gaming-Desktop-PC-Computer-3-9GHz-Fast-HD-DVI-4GB-400GB-/261178298734?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item3ccf70916e

$560

no ebay

it's a shop smartass.

This ends on November 5th.

You can provide specs via PM if you don't want to reveal your best sources.

Quantity: 4  Refurbished...  sorry that is second hand as far as I am concerned.

Does this have to be explicitly a Core i7 machine?

What about Hyperthreading - is a dual core with HT considered a quad-core?

Matthew:out

Hyper threading counts as 50% of a core.  I will attempt to normalize CPU performance when comparing prices. 

I have sent you - what I think is - a pretty good deal via PM.

Matthew:out

I was able to build the following:AMD FX-6300 BULLDOZER SIX CORE 3.5GHz Biostar A960D+ 2GB DDR3 500GB HDD for $367 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291007635830    

Unfortunately it comes with an unnecessary DVD drive which I suspect could save another $10 if someone can source it elsewhere.

And the best response I have gotten thus far is:

Or Build it Ourself Intel system:

Power Supply:              $30
Case:           $29
Mother Board:              $65
3.2 Ghz Quad Core i5:   $190
2 GB DDR3 RAM:          $20
250 GB 7200 Disk         $50
Assembly:                   $50
-------------------------------------------
Total: $434

So the question is, for momentum what is the difference in performance for a Quad Core i5 at 3.2 vs a Six Core AMD at 3.5 Ghz?  Benchmarks show memory throughput is about even.  

You'll find that that is because the memory is bottlenecked on both machines.

You could put a dual-core in there and if you pump it hard enough, bottleneck the memory.

This seems to be less of a "who can build the cheapest computer" and more of a "who can bottleneck the memory for the least amount of money".

DDR3-2133 anyone?

Matthew:out

Well, it is all about throughput per dollar.   I know that a 3.4 Ghz Core i7 with 8 threads going has a hard time hitting the theoretical memory bus limits because speed increases linearly as I add cores to the problem.  My estimates show that an i7 can saturate about 50% of the memory bus running 1600 Mhz DDR3 RAM (using SHA512 to fill RAM).   So the processor matters a lot.  There are a lot of memory delays so hyper threading helps a lot.  That said, memory is accessed in a random manner and so the bus is unable to operate at max efficiency. 

All of that said, a CPU that was 100x faster would clearly hit the memory bus limit and thus hinder use of custom ASIC to replace CPU alone.

Does this means for the I7 with DDR3-1600 combination, cpu is the bottleneck?

If three or more I7/equivalent work with DDR3-1600, memory speed will become the bottleneck?

Does the memory size matters? I suppose it will increase the speed also. Or 2GB is enough?

1 GB is enough ram to do the proof of work and adding additional RAM will not accelerate the process by more than .05% with almost no gains beyond 2 GB... make sure there is room for OS and wallet app.

The proof of work is structured so that by the time you use 768 MB of ram (entire nonce search space) there is a 99% chance of finding 1-2 potential hashes.

Once you exhaust the nonce search space you clear the RAM and start over.

Increasing CPU speed helps until the bottleneck is the memory bus and is worthless beyond that point.

If you have less than 768 MB of ram your performance falls exponentially such that 512MB of RAM cuts your performance down to 10% (SWAG) of what it would be with the full amount of RAM.

I think the bounty belongs to me. Here's my ace:

http://www.neo.com.ph/products/elan-series





My tip jar:

1HC4XbPm6sAGr3CdahPRq2iJyJhbrryXo

He says, offering up something that has several major problems.

1) The cheapest model is $530 - I beat you by $80.
2) It's a laptop - laptops are designed for low powet, not high performance.
3) It's in the philipines - import tax and delivery costs!

Matthew:out

I suppose, then, that fast memory is pretty much a must-have. I wonder how much of a performance gain it will have, though. Would it make it worth the money?

Would upgrading the fx-6300 to an fx-8320 make a significant difference? Would it be better value for money to try an fx-8120?

So many questions.

Matthew:out

Thanks,

Today, DDR3-2400 Ram is not expensive, and MB support up to 3000MHz overclock (although higher cas latency). And considering I7 cpu can only saturate 50% DDR3-1600, improving cpu speed/thread is the key, right?

Is 768M for a single core/thread or entire system?

It is so hard to build a proper miner before release. Do you have plan to get into miner business?

A higher CAS latency at those speeds doesn't necessarily mean the memory is slower to respond.

Let's assume the we have two sticks of memory, one at DDR3-1333 CAS 5-10-10 ( for example), and one at DDR3-2666 CAS 10-20-20. Which is faster?

Because CAS latency is given in clock cycles, a doubling of bus speed means that the CAS latency will double. However, since twice as many clock cycles happen in the same amount of time, the answer is, they are both exactly the same.

I suppose we have the question of higher bus speed, or lower latency...

Matthew:out

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1VWD5

406$+50 build

Or if you wanted a real i7:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1VWJ3

415$+50 build

Same as above with 2gb 1600 memory:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1VWML

418$+50 build

I believe I have the lowest price at the moment with 100% brand new parts following the rules. Address in sig :)

You are forgetting power supply which adds $40 to each of your quotes.

Opps... I just noticed the case included a 400 watt power supply... Good work!

The mining proof is well defined.  The best algorithm for performing the proof is yet to be developed.

Proof:
 


Factors in Performance:
How many SHA512 hashes per second can a CPU achieve.
For each SHA512 hash performed, a hashmap must be populated with eight 64 bit keys and 32 bit values.
The minimum memory bandwidth requirement is therefore:  12*8*Sha512PerSec  bytes per second.
The memory is accessed randomly and is transferred in blocks of 64 bytes based upon the cache line size of the CPU.
The effective memory bandwidth requirement is therefore: 64*8*Sha512PerSec  bytes per second.

A 3.4 Ghz Core i7 can generate 2 million Sha512/sec per core.   I will be generous and assume 12 million Sha512/sec when all cores + hyper-threading are saturated.
12 million * 512 bytes per second is 6 Gigabytes per second on the memory bus assuming no other overhead.

Transfer rate on RAM is 6.4 GB/s per channel theoretical.   So when you factor in all of the other random overhead, the fact memory access isn't perfectly pipelined or sequential then it becomes very clear that memory bandwidth and CPU power must be paired.   

The fastest possible machine may be a 12 core Mac Pro with DDR4... but this wouldn't be the lowest price/hash.  

 

Xeon E3's are rebadged and binned i7's that are compatible with most motherboards out there.
Readycache drives can be used as boot drives but require additional fuckery in many cases, so I am not going to use one in my build list. I refuse to use BioStar or Diablotek anything due to reliability. I could not find information on most of the Biostar motherboards in reference to the latest shipping units requiring a BIOS flash or not, which is another reason i chose the ASRock or alternatively MSI models. This is important as it would require additional time, fuckery, and another CPU to accomplish. Notice the compatibility flag on his.

That being said:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1W14w
Base Total:    $357.95    
Mail-in Rebates:    -$25.00    
Shipping:    $4.99    
Total:    $337.94

Though, all of the ones using the Kingston module should add an additional 99 cents as the Amazon one has one left and requires 35+$ spent to have free S/H on that item.

I can configure for one retailer if you like or mix parts better for no MIRs. If you buy today it would be under 320 with code NAFSAVE25NOV1R shipped totally from newegg and also assuming a free shoprunner account.

I was able to build the following:
AMD FX-6300 BULLDOZER SIX CORE 3.5GHz Biostar A960D+ 2GB DDR3 500GB HDD for $367 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291007635830    

Based upon benchmarks the i7 system is 1.34x faster overall so I would have to handicap my AMD system by a similar factor which would put the price at $491 vs $470 for your i7 based system.  I suspect that I could spec an AMD system that was slightly cheaper once I remove the DVD drive and use the same 32 GB SSD drive and case that you mentioned.     The there is the long-term electric cost to factor in which would give the i7 a clear edge.    

My conclusion is that you are very much in the lead in the price/performance metric.  I will give it another day before I declare a winner and pay the bounty.

Mail-in Rebates are labor and delay.   You also didn't factor in labor.  So That puts your price at $412.     The improved reliability is a plus in your camp, though the CPU is 3.1 Ghz vs 3.4+ so you currently have the edge for the best system.

This would be great and I will probably order one if I can get it all in one place because that will also save time and money. 

Gathering all that right now. Please don't forget the CPU has Turbo to 3.5ghz and is a 69 W CPU.
http://ark.intel.com/products/65734/

Turbo doesn't mean much for 100% mining load unless I liquid cool the unit :)

Note: 25.6 GB/s Max Memory Bandwidth   

Thus my calculations show we are using about 25% of the MAX theoretical memory bandwidth.   Close to 50% of the practical memory bandwidth.  An ASIC would be limited to perhaps 4x gains if all they did was replace the CPU and perhaps 10x gains if they used very special purpose state of the art memory.   Of course, I doubt they could do these things in a machine costing less than $4000 so there is little cost/benefit to creating an ASIC for this :)

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1W1KP
+ code NAFSAVE25NOV1R = 301.94
+ Free month shoprunner (Free 2-day shipping) = 299.95 ( https://www.shoprunner.com/non_member/home/ )
+ TCB 1-2% Cashback ( 3-6$~ ).

If anything just scale the CPU accordingly... it's still a cheaper build overall and the binned Ivys can't be beat for wattage. Check it out, no matter how you spec it, Ivy i7 will always lose the $/W and $/Ghz battle: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1W2jt

If you wanted more IPC, the Haswell v3 is currently cheaper than the Ivy line in terms of build:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1W2D2
Total:    $304.94
+ code NAFSAVE25NOV1R = 279.94
+ SR -1.99 S/H = 277.95

You left off the memory in your latest build.

WUPS. I think it cut it off when i switched vendor to a specific one.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1W43u

2x 1GB 1600 modules for dual-channel, CAS9, and heatspreaders for 1$~ less @ NewEgg vs the Kingston and Mushkin modules @ CAS11, single, and no HS.

Total: $331.93 - 26.99 (CC + SR) = 304.94

Same build with Ivy slightly more, at a lower ICP+wattage, but has turbo. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1W4nT

http://www.portatech.com    (if never heard, http://www.resellerratings.com/store/PortaTech)
choose barebones computer (FREE Assembly & Testing Included)

Barebones w/ Intel Core i5 / i7 (Socket 1150)
  w/ Core i5 4670 (4 x 3.8GHz CPU - 6MB Cache +1200MHz Graphics)
  ASRock H81M-DGS
  Systems - CPU Fan Only
  2GB DDR3 1600MHz (1 x 2GB - Single Module)
  500GB 7200RPM SATA3 6gb/sec - Hard Drive
  Standard Value Mid-Tower Case
  400 Watt Power Supply
  Standard - Build, Burn-in, Test & Ship Out in Approx 3 to 5 Business Days
  Barebones - 1 Year

$359.88 shipped, they don't have a good choice of hard drive, but no labor fee.
I5-4670 is good in benchmark

If replace the CPU with  I5-4430, $333.88.

This is an awesome website... looking over the various machines this is what I found:

Core i7 3.9 Ghz
2GB
$369.78 + $20 USB Stick with Linux on it for HD total  $389

Based upon their performance numbers, the Core i7 is 25% faster and yet only costs 8% More. 

I suspect any system running full tilt will need to spend another $50 in cooling, but that is a constant offset that also favors the i7 over the i5.

Overall, PortaTech seems to be the best source for these systems. 

AMD FX8320 @ 8 x 4.0GHz
$242.93 + $20 USB Stick with Linux
Adjusted for 10% less performance... $270
Adjusted for extra power used over 1 year... $370 (100 Watt difference, 24x7, $.1 KWH)


I am inclined to say that azwccc is in the lead so far.

I was able to spec it at that same site through pricewatch.com ( http://www.pricewatch.com/price/motherboard_combos/fx-8320 ):
Description    Unit Price    
   cb-amd   Combo w/ AMD FX (Socket AM3+)
  w/ AMD FX8320 - Eight-Core (8 x 4.0GHz - 16MB Cache)
  ASRock 960GM-VGS3
  Systems - CPU Fan Only
  2GB DDR3 1600MHz (1 x 2GB - Single Module)
  500GB 7200RPM SATA3 6gb/sec - Hard Drive
  Premium Assemble, Setup, Pretest, & Set CPU FSB & Power / Cooling
  400 Watt Power Supply
  Combo - 1 Year   $305.78   Remove

Barebones w/ AMD FX (Socket AM3+)
  w/ AMD FX8350 - Eight-Core (8 x 4.2GHz - 16MB Cache)
  ASRock 960GM-VGS3
  Systems - CPU Fan Only
  2GB DDR3 1600MHz (1 x 2GB - Single Module)
  500GB 7200RPM SATA3 6gb/sec - Hard Drive
  Standard Value Mid-Tower Case
  400 Watt Power Supply
  Standard - Build, Burn-in, Test & Ship Out in Approx 3 to 5 Business Days
  Barebones - 1 Year   $327.88

Granted, if you're willing to go i5 I can go much lower. SSD and solid PSU in addition to dual channel memory that is actually good seems to be missing from these benchmarks. You're going to starve any 8 core setup in single.

If you're willing to go AMD. This isn't including the -25$, cashback, or free 2day if you get in fast.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1We5D Total:    $263.93
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1We6R Total:    $303.93
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1We8m Total:    $343.93

If you're willing to go USB drive, get a 3.0 as 3.0 USB is better, even in USB 2.0 slots.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1WeeH + http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820141628

Does anyone have a solid justification for why azwccc should not win?  If not I plan on awarding him the bounty.

Thanks  ;D

1K2L2G6VeS4yNtEfN6UFPygnTmbv7bEChQ

I will be happy to have BTC to purchase Keyhotee ID ;)

A.) I wouldn't go with AMD and those PSUs at all.
B.) There are better builds though $/W should not be considered as per original requirements.
C.) Dual channel memory and cas rating is important in terms of bandwidth and speed which is not benchmarked for.
D.) SSD > HDD on avg, and have better warranties in terms of all components.
E.) 2day shipping should count.
F.) Please see the AMD benchmarks in single channel.

Not going with AMD the power consumption is too high.

The Dual Channel memory is an issue, ideally there would be 2 DIMS rather than 1. 

So the machine I would go with is:
Core i7 3.9 Ghz
2GB
$369.78 + $20 USB Stick with Linux on it for HD total  $389
From protatech.com

By getting rid of the HD I end up with SSD and I have no need to assemble parts.   

So when critiquing the best machine please refer to this machine.   Note: technically I was the one to spec it, but azwccc pointed me to the source.

312.94 + 50 - 25 - 6 = 331.95
Plus it allows for more updatability at a later date in addition to higher bandwidth dual channel and better warranties.

Your discounts and mail in rebates do not count because of extra labor, time/value of money and I suspect there is a limit on the number of rebates per customer thus not 'in volume'.

I am trying to find your exact machine for comparison, the best I have found is: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1W43u for $328.92 with promo discounts of $50.   Promo Discounts do not count, so $378.92.

When I replace the drive with a USB stick I end up with about $350 then I add labor I get to $400.   Then I factor in 3.1 vs 3.9 Ghz and that is not a viable option.  Even with the promo codes this machine does not compete.

Unless I missed your link to the $312.94 machine.

Free assembly & testing before shipment. Avoid any DOA hardware failure trouble.

1 year warranty and 30 days return. Price match policy.

Free shipping, no need of short-term coupon code/rebate.

So you consider turbo for the build but not MIRs?
http://ark.intel.com/products/65719/
Uhhhh
You JUST stated you did not consider turbo as the rate.
You also didn't calc the IPC/W/DC increase.

Most individual parts have 3 years normally. Ask which system on HardOCP, Anandtech, Fatwallet, or Slickdeals. I'm out, this is insanity for a 24/7 system.

3.4 GHz vs 3.1 Ghz...  I did not realize the 3.9 was Turbo, but 3.4 is base frequency.    IPC?

Integers Per Clock, which is HIGHER with Haswell vs Ivy Bridge. They are similar in total benchies, in addition to dual channel ram, LOWER CAS rating ram (faster), and lower wattage.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Wf21
+ USB = 14.99
-25 -6
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E3-1230+v3+%40+3.30GHz&id=1942

Haswell wins, regardless. The Ghz doesn't matter as much as the arch and surrounding factors. Please god go ask Anandtech or HardOCP or someone that deals with this sort of thing. Seven minutes you could've already ordered the best.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=24512072
http://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Intel-Xeon-E3-1220-V3-c-ray-benchmark.jpg
http://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Intel-Xeon-E3-1220-V3-Power-Consumption.jpg
http://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Intel-Xeon-E3-1220-V3-Crafty-Bench-Linux.jpg
http://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Intel-Xeon-E3-1220-V3-pts-stream-7-zip-openssl-pybench-linux.jpg

Dual vs single channel:
http://www.behardware.com/medias/photos_news/00/30/IMG0030969.png
http://www.behardware.com/medias/photos_news/00/30/IMG0030968.png
http://www.behardware.com/medias/photos_news/00/30/IMG0030969.png

Then add 5-10% for IPC. That 3.1 vs 3.4 is alot different if you're running full load no turbo and dual vs single, especially for a memory intensive operation ( I run the v2 on an H61 because of Link Time Optimization compiling).

Assuming the two machines have about equal performance and power consumption and only a benchmark for our particular application could really be definitive. 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Wf21
Your machine costs $375 + $50 Labor + $20 Drive => $445
My machine costs: $389

So unless your machine is 15% faster which the benchmarks do not bear out... then the benefits of your system are..

Memory Bandwidth... though I am not sure we are pegging it anyway.
Perhaps more reliable parts...

The tie breaker comes down to convenience. 

That said, I will credit you with 0.5 BTC toward the keyhotee ID of your choice as runner up.  It really is very tough to call here.

Do I get anything for pointing out pcpartpicker lol? I mean the tool itself is the winner. Also if you live near a micro center you an buy a 3770k for like 170$ cash.

That tool is slick I must say. Really only needed NewEgg.

Bytemaster, don't worry about it. Please though, please start going to hardware sites where SysAdmins frequent. Your future perspective will change. If your PSU dies, buy a Bronze or Gold Sea or Antec on the cheap for Cyber Monday. If your data is important please god don't run USB2.0 drives, and even 3.0 are Meh compared to the algos pumping out of most SSDs with 3+yr warranties.

For my application, mining,  there is no data.  I can replace failed parts.  It will be trial and error.

I have been burned by crap parts in the past.   

If that is the case then go with the cheapest biostar, usb2.0, and diablotek stuff you can get your hands on. That will be cheaper than any build recommended here so far. I however will not post such a build out of knowing the results already. There are Lenovo and Dell builds cheaper than all these in terms of non-ship accepted (no refurbs, just not accepted shipments).

Bounty Paid: 94174efbde2566bed8886928e50cbc44c5cd357bf8bd6384fec1800d912f96ae

Darn could have probably built a much better one if I had known the rules could be broken.

It was not my intent to break any rules.  What rule do you feel was broken?

Oh it don't matter to me lol. I just thought it -had- to be a i7 as the title says.

Ok, well the winner was an i7 :) 


The body was more clear, but you are right the subject was suggestive of a more restrictive spec.   No one likes to be called a 'cheater' for 'breaking the rules' so I am glad you were not too serious about that accusation.

Got it. Thanks~

I will purchase the miner also.

It is not a cheapest, but...

nanoX-TCR Extreme Rugged™ COM Express ® Type 10 Mini-size Computer-on-Module with Intel ® Atom™ Processor E6xxT

http://www.adlinktech.com/PD/marketing/Datasheet/nanoX-TCR/nanoX-TCR_Datasheet_en_2.pdf

CPU: Intel ® Atom™ E680T, 1.6 GHz, 3.9 W TDP
Memory: Soldered 1GB DDR2 at 800MHz (Optional for 512MB or 2GB)
Ethernet: Intel ® 82574IT Gigabit Ethernet Controller
Size: COM Express Mini, 84 mm x 55 mm (3.3” x 2.17”)

For comparison, most banking cards and ID cards: 85.60 × 53.98 mm   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_7810

But it is Atom. No HDD. No Case.

---

For example look at this: http://www.adlinktech.com/PD/marketing/Datasheet/NuPRO-E340/NuPRO-E340_Datasheet_en_1.pdf

NuPRO-E340 PICMG ® 1.3 Full-Size LGA1155 Intel ® Core™ i7/i5/i3 SHB

CPU: Intel ® Core™ i7-2600, 3.4 GHz, 8M Cache, 32nm, 95W TDP, LGA1155 (4C)
Memory: 2x 240-pin DIMM sockets / Dual-channel DDR3 1066/1333MHz, up to 8 GB
Operating Systems: Fedora™ 14, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5
Form Factor: Full-Size PICMG ® 1.3 System Host Board
Dimensions: 338 mm x 126 mm (L x W)


http://www.adlinktech.com/products/index.php

The PICMGs look like a good way to pack a lot of CPU power into a small space. I have a 2007 Xeon server with Windows Server 2003 sitting around to try Protoshares on a legacy system.