Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Project Development => Topic started by: DyslexicZombei on November 05, 2013, 08:03:56 PM

Title: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: DyslexicZombei on November 05, 2013, 08:03:56 PM
I opened up a huge can of worms in the GB forum trying to provide Group Buyers partial "ownership" of the net profits of US International Group Purchased Bitcoin ATMs.

I apologize to everyone that bought in and are currently being refunded. The intention going in was to give buyers these net profits in perpetuity. When we had to modify the terms (for legal and financial reasons), this method proved to be mostly unpopular. With the high regulatory compliance issues, permits, licenses, taxes, operating costs, etc., etc., if we were to offer a GB ATM offering in perpetuity, it would likely be anywhere from 50-100% more expensive per share than what we had originally listed it at.

Combined with further legal guidance (mostly none except: "stay away") and further discussions of the GB method at this time, we had to close out the Group Buy for Robocoin ATMs.

We're still going forward, but we're moving forward with internal money and private investors only, in a smaller limited test as a proof of concept. This is still a serious venture that *will* happen.

We are looking into the possibility of the ASICminer method of gaining and compensating backers, but we are not ready for a BTC IPO at this time. (UPDATE/CLARIFICATION: We do not need BTC for our start-up at this time) We received some good free suggestions from ninjaboon that we may explore further.

I've tried to do right by you guys...because I really am just one of you: a miner and an investor. I started our amateur miners cooperative (now going pro) in order to help provide a scam free sales outlet that gives people access to institutional prices at smaller price points.

I founded "the lil co-op that could" and in a short span, we've grown into a 900 pound gorilla in the GB space, due to a ceaseless roll-out of the world's best prices for ASIC miners, round after round, combined with our world class customer service, and active cooperation within the co-op among creators and contributors.

I am now the CEO of a small intl. company - something I didn't imagine just 2 weeks ago, but I really am just one of you (except probably with a higher risk tolerance, the organizer gene, and gooder writing/marketing skills).

Make no mistake: with me as the Founder and CEO of this new pro arm, we are going to be a 900 pound gorilla in the Bitcoin economy, *and* the Robocoin Operator Network. Our verticality and resources are unmatched for a miners cooperative and I intend to use our verticality and growing size to create or gain market share in a wide swathe of Bitcoin related businesses and activities (including arbitrage).

So the questions are:

- If there were an ASICminer-type share offering for BTC ATMs would there be enough interest in this?

- Also, in the future, if there were an ASICminer-type share offering for our new corporation's entire Bitcoin operations, would there be interest in this as well?

Title: Re: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: yomamanodros on November 05, 2013, 09:14:48 PM
I would be interested in both of those offerings.  I have bought shares in several of your GB's and had hoped to join in the ATM buy.  I would jump at the opportunity to buy in.

Title: Re: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: bcabes on November 05, 2013, 09:55:08 PM
I would be more interest in the ASICminer-type share offering BTC ATMs. I don't know how the exact model would work, but I think it would be best to have it be one corporation with multiple ATMs.

Title: Re: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: DebitMe on November 05, 2013, 10:07:55 PM
I would be interested in what you mean by offering shares in the whole venture?  Are you planning on raising a bunch of IPO funds to buy mining equipment, and then just mine and retain dividends for expansion?  Or would you continue to host GB's with hosting, in which case, how would investors gets profits (aka. where would they come from)?

Personally I like what you are doing the way it is, where you are offering cloud type mining services at a rate better than on the market due to great/experienced service channels.

That being said, major overhaules to the website (which you have talked about) would make things easier than ever to join in GB's that you host.  By adding the ability to track partial ownerships and voting options in a "my account" would open up many possibilities.

I also would urge you to consider tax implications going forward, especially growing at the rate you are, where assets have quickly surpassed 100K and growing.  I believe Bobsag is located in the United States, which would mean that revenue gained from your co-op is taxable.  (actually based on the limited research I did, I believe setting the group up as a company, specifically a S-corp, would have a much better tax benefit than a co-op, where profits can be taxed at the co-op as well as at the personal level).  Of course, this is all based on whether your looking to tax profits or not, but I would assume as bitcoin grows, as does your organization, that you would want to remain complaint as much as possible.

I would love to see an ATM in the United States, but I do not think the government would allow one anytime soon due to extremely strict money handling laws (as I am sure you are aware).  I think that starting in other countries (I am unfamiliar with money handling laws elsewhere, but I assume they are less strict) would open up avenues of compliance knowledge and experience that would eventually allow an ATM to be open in the United States.

Again, I wish you the best of luck, I plan to purchase a few shares of your most recent GB and hope that your little co-op that could, continues to grow, as I think it really shows the honesty that the right people can bring to the community.

Title: Re: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: DyslexicZombei on November 06, 2013, 12:34:33 AM
Wow, thank you very, very much for your comments. No one is put in a trust in this co-op/company without being vetted by me (at this point) and while my vetting services are free, they are the most stringent vetting service requirements that I'm aware of on this forum.

I will discuss this at our board mtg. this evening. I'm copy/pasting this from the R13 GB thread:

Also, I can tell you that things are moving quickly on both the "amateur" and the pro side of our activities, and that we hope to have the framework for an investor compensation plan for any Qualified Investors interested in diversifying from miners. As of today, we are officially incorporated as a LLC. doing crypto related ATM business.

We are still aggressively looking at how we can offer GB ATM shares to Group Buyers and we hope that we can come to a legal resolution to this, and continue to give small buyers the world's best prices and deals.

As CEO of this nascent Intl. company, my promise to you is that even as our new company grows larger, our company will continue to service this Group Buys forum and will continue to give the "little guy/girl" access to Institutional Pricing via our DZ MC GBs. Without the "little guys/girls" this co-op could not have even conceived of going pro, so we, the co-op's leaders, all thank you from the bottom of our hearts.

We will likely reduce our GB types to 2 or 3 larger GBs a month, but we will always remember our roots here, no matter what happens.



Also, FWIW: the AM share approach is a "what if" scenario, and is likely to take place months from now, if we even do go down this route.

Title: Re: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: DyslexicZombei on November 06, 2013, 12:48:54 AM
Funds raised would *not, repeat would *not* be obtained to buy mining equipment.

Funds raised would be for business operations (such as capital expenditures) and are meant to go into or expand the BTC ATM business and ohhhh a bunch of innovations in the BTC economy which I can't discuss yet, but we fully intend to be a major player that brings new value and services across the entire Bitcoin industry and marketplace. Again, this is preliminary. We actually don't need the money, but would like to someday offer the forum members access to our expertise and a portion of the company.

I've introduced a number of new innovations to the Group Buys forum which have increased our sales, and I have no intention of stopping my innovative approach in the Bitcoin economy anytime soon. I've evolved to the point where I'm now doing major, exclusive deals with VPs, Presidents, and CEOs of major Bitcoin mining mfgs. and BTC related industries like Robocoin.

Also, the preliminary plan is to do a new sub-company for each country we support, shielded from other sister and affiliated companies.

Title: Re: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: DyslexicZombei on November 06, 2013, 07:40:54 AM
We believe that we have a simple and reasonable plan for Qualified Investors looking to order and place an entire ATM (or several) which will be serviced by our new LLC.

I cannot publicly solicit for this, but since you now know that we have or will have this service soon to be available, you are more than welcome to contact me via PM for a private, not public, venture on what is essentially a private forum, since you have to register to become a member here on this privately owned site.


BTW, we believe that fair taxes are fair to everyone. We want people to pay their legal share of their taxes for profits gained from their BTC related ventures. It's a very good thing to support your fair share of modern civilization by helping to pay the bills that help keep the essentials going.

Title: Re: Discussion to explore how to provide Group Buy Robocoin ATMs to investors
Post by: DyslexicZombei on November 11, 2013, 07:16:48 PM
Problem solved!

For those interested in owning a Bitcoin ATM or ATMs, we've launched our new pro services in the Services Forum: