Bitcoin Forum

i'm new at bitcoin trading
i have read this little note of bitcoin trading someware

Bitcoin up = altcoin down
Bitcoin down = altcion down
Bitcoin stable = altcoin moon


is it true? can i use it for a guide in trading?
and why Bitcoin can greatly affect to other coins
i know bitcoin is the king, legend, the first but is it possible just because of that?

Reading up other informations towards trading or on how the market moves isnt bad but it isnt good on totally rely with those informations. On the things you had listed above those are the possible movements that we do saw on our current market but it isnt good to focus on those things because market is way too volatile.Anytime it can go to the direction which would really be opposite to your presumptions which would really result negative impact into your trading,having some basis isnt bad but still the most important thing to consider is to analyze on each order you do made.

Somehow but not exactly true mate. There are big market fluctuation happening from this year starting onwards so we need to wait for some more months to understand how all the cryptos are reacting as bitcoin bumped in the market.
There are bump signals that can help you to find the upcoming dump and bump in the market. So you will be able to invest on the perfect coin that time.

I think when bitcoin is up altcoins are also up but not all and not always. I just notice that when bitcoin was on its height i benefitted good also from altcoins because they were good also in price but now even tokens i cannot sell because of very low price.

Choose whatever you want and which guide that makes you feel comfortable. I just think it's the matter pure of Bitcoin supply and demand that stand under decentralization , no one will never ever know what could happened later in crypto. We can't really just say that there's a pattern like what you mentioned above. Too easy to guess and people might could do the same thing at once.

No it will not predict the future direction of Bitcoin or alts.

Sometimes Bitcoin is going up and alts are staying flat or going down.

Sometimes Bitcoin is flat and alts are going up or down.

Sometimes Bitcoin is going down and alts are also going down.

Right now I think many are way too over invested in alts and hence the dominance index keeps rising every few days.

However the settlement can be different next week or next month.

These observations are not true at the root!
All altcoins are moving at the cost of bitcoin.
When he grows, everything grows.

Since alcoins are bought for Bitcoin. When the market is in decline, then all the coins are also falling.

I'm new at trading too but that doesn't mean I'm not ignorant enough to believe those claims or opinion. Bitcoin is truly the sole king but it is not connected to other altcoins it's just pure coincidence that may happen frequently these days.

Sometimes i think of that too but after reading and speculating it leaves me no answer and an unethical way to believe. Sometimes also it does but mostly it doesn't sadly we could not comprehend the definite answer to this question that everyone is boggling.

Hmm. In some way its true, but there are instances that it doesn't hold. Remember December? All coins are mooning including bitcoin and almost all altcoins. So that is one example wherein we one of your premises was not satisfied.

But obviously there's some correlation between bitcoin and altcoin market as you have put in. A good explanation why altcoin is affected by the price of bitcoin is simply, traders shift funds around and go to where there is a potential money.

i notice dis same. why crypto like this? alt is price with bitcoin, so when BTCgo down, alt shud go up cuz BTC value is lower so alt's BTCshould be higher. but instead, alt'sBTC value go down? why?

i notice also when BTCgo up rapidly, alt's BTC value also goes down rapidly. This make sense since alt is worth only $x.xx and if BTC value goes up, then alt's BTCvalue has to go down to match $x.xx again.

so even like this, i understand. But still it not always this way.

I agree with this point of view and, as many have already noted, the altcoins are often bought and sold using bitcoin or ethereum. This fact alone links their value, but not always in the same direction.

thanks all for the answer,
so the conclusion from all advice is

1 note that i mentioned above is no entirely right
2 always update on other informations towards trading or on how the market moves
3 consider is to analyze on each order
4 watch on supply and demand / market depth
5 Choose whatever method i want and which guide that makes me feel comfortable

maybe its true in short term trading
just like you said when bitcoin up traders shift the fund on bitcoin and sell alt, that's why alt price is down

No, if it worked, all the people already made that money. But not everything is as simple as it seems from the outside.

That would always fall on a case by case basis, that's pretty old to follow altcoins always reacts when bitcoin was mooning majority is also pumping given the market condition and events you can simply observe the flow through CMC website, bitcoin green most of the alt is also green even though in some cases you may consider those points that you've mentioned above like for example, ethereum got positive 2% then bitcoin was negative 1% the difference is not that big but when it comes to massive pumps in bitcoin this will surely reflect in cryptocurrency overall.

it's just a prediction pal. And its up to you if you want to believe it. But for me the reason why alt coin sometimes risIng when bitcoin is down because of some holder always evacuate to protect their money, and sometimes both is decreasing when there's a occasion such xmas, new year, and summer. Which is causes to dump some money for their needs  .

I think the logic is true. I'm a beginner too and my experience did happen. but not forever when bitcoin rises altcoin prices down, when there is good news about coins (altcoin) sometimes it will also affect the price to go up and bitcoin and altcoin will go up together

It can be true indeed as we seen what the market showing right now, if we trace back the attitude of those coins especially speculative alts,
they are much relied with how bitcoin will moves, when bitcoin reach new ath and stay with the height the more the value of some quality
alts to rise high, it's a matter of timing and how well we understand the system.

I do not think that when bitcoin goes up the oher altcoins go down. On the other hand, when bitcoin goes up, the other altcoins go down. And if you are talking about trading, bitcoin is based on the long-term. That means, the more you hold, the better you get a good profits. Added to that, you should not use what you said when you want to trade because cryptocurrency is unpredictable. 

I think these three presumptions are too general. It depends on the quality of the coin as to how it performs immaterial of bitcoin action.

Huh?

If we look at Bcash and Ethereum before the global crypto deflation started to kick in, they both quite regularly were moving in the exact opposite direction when Bitcoin went up or down. I think it's safe to say that we'll be seeing these movements come back once the global crypto market starts to get comfortable with going up again. People assume that these shifts mean that capital one time moves from Bitcoin to altcoins and vice versa, depending on the market circumstances. It might hold some sort of truth, but its impossible to find out to what extent the capital actually shifts from coin to coin. I personally think these capital shifts are greatly exaggerated....

That's right. Altcoins are too dependent on Bitcoin. There are several coins that can grow when bitcoin falls. Well, if you trade not only in pairs with bitcoin, but also with the dollar.

Don't used that as a guide. Use your self analysis  instead and spend time learning others "factors" that needed to be considered as a reference to your future trades.

It will be a long discussion so I will just choose a simple guide you can take. After choosing your preferred coins to trade (aside from bitcoin), always make sure that you are keeping up to the latest trend on that coin. How to know that? Lots of options like hearing other speculation on their ANN thread, taking notes of daily high and low price etc. You know you don't need to understand those as once you are continously trading that coin, you will automatically known what things should be done. Just focus and be eager that you really want to learn.

Also some of the altcoins only have a direct pair to BTC that's why when bitcoin price is moving, the USD value of those coins are moving too e.g up or down.

Not always correct...

When trading bitcoin you need to pay attention to market movements because it is heavily influenced by the volatility of the entire cryptocurrency market. Remember to make fewer transactions because the transaction fee is very large, if you do not know how to optimize the amount of fees you pay for commercial page is very large.

honestly I myself do not quite understand how to trade, but that's what I see also like that, when bitcoin up sometimes altcoinnya decreased, sometimes bitcoin is down altcoin other also follow-down, I do not know whether maybe rising turunya bitcoin price can affect price of other altcoin.

When the growth of bitcoin begins, people sell their altcoins and invest in bitcoin. Prices for altcoin fall.

Not always. Also not all altcoins will go down when bitcoin is down. There are a few coins in the matket that is going up. If you want  to trade in  crypto currency markey and survive do not just look at the top 20 coins in the market cap also check coins beyond that list.

Well that will be not the case in some cases because if you will see when bitcoin goes down also alt goes down. and when bitcoin is stable it may is getting momentum which alts can go down.

the current market situation has changed greatly, first when we believe when bitcoin up = altcoins down and bitcoin down = altcoins up. but in fact this time altcoins always follow the bitcoin groove, the market situation is difficult to predict.

Trading is not that simple and you have to look out for many other affecting factors when trading. This theory might work sometime but it will not work always and you might loss all you have when trying to follow this simple strategy.

You have to only trade coins with high trading volume and never buy when it is pumping hard. At the end traders will look at price in USD of a coin rather than in a BTC so keep that in mind when making your moves.

It's not easy since its so though to think on which one is the best to be traded today and which one is needed to avoid with plus the pressure we can get for trade stats happenings plus another fud handling. And there would not an easy aspect of it since it can rotten our mindset if we are not ready to take the risk beneath on it.

Someone very needs to influence the price of bitcoin. The prices of altcoins depend on the price of bitcoin but will they burst when bitcoin will burst?

Some time the bitcoin currency is connected with the altcoin but if we look at the trading scene then bitcoin trading a little affect altcoin and some time one fall make greater the other currency and like this most of the people get connected with these two if one down they are trying to invest in that and bitcoin is the best for me to trade in the future.

Yep I have to agree with you its certainly true. I have seen this in many occasions that when BTC moves upward the whole market moves upward but not with the same pace. When btc moves down the market too moves down terribly. And its only when btc moves sideways is the time you can trade in the alts and enjoy the alt party. When btc moves sideways you will see a new coin everyday mooning up by atleast 50-60%. But in these bearish times its the real test of any trader as you have to make money while the whole market is moving down.

Bitcoin affect or influence other cryptocurrency because bitcoin is the father of all coin and other coin are trade against bitcoin. However, you can use the logic you posted as guide to trade crypto currency but its still a vice versa situation because we have a time where bitcoin is stable while altcoin don't bullish.

thank for the advice.
So much i have to learn about trading, my previous trade just base on feeling, an the result i lost half of my balance
maybe its time for me to take a breath, i'll HOLD all my coin and wait maybe the price up again
while i'm learning about trading and prepare for my next move

bitcoin up = altcoin up because most of altcoin (especially the low cap ones) are paired into btc and not usd. same with bitcoin down = altcoin down

bitcoin stable = altcoin up (if there's a development in project of that coin)
bitcoin stable = altcoin down ( scam exposed xd)
bitcoin stable = altcoin stable , normal.

This observation is not correct. Usually bitcoin price affects altcoin price. Say for example if bitcoin price is increasing, altcoin price also increses. Similarly at the time of falling. Bitcoin is the market leader and most influential in crypto market.

This formula could be used freely from the end of 2015 to December 2017. If you carefully analyze, then now this formula does not work correctly. Now you need to carefully analyze each crypto currency separately, since any crypto coin behaves differently today!

You can choose bitcoin for the sake of trading as well but it is not a smart decision to do so. It is because of the reason that there are certain other coins as well like that of ETH etc. which are far better than that of bitcoin for day trading and that they can help you in making of greater amount of money too. You need to review your decision and that you need to choose the right coin.

It depends on the level of up we are talking about with bitcoin, most of the time if bitcoin starts gaining huge dominance from bull run, most of the altcoins are always hitting the block and hiding in their caves, I always see it more like transfer of money into bitcoin as the traders are looking for ways to make profit from the bull run. Just the mentality anyway based on what I have seen. However, we already know right from time that the lesser bitcoin goes, it affects altcoins greatly.

As far as I have been trading cryptocurrency, which is always the reality of the way things are in this market. The only time most altcoins do very well is whenever bitcoin is consolidating, and then you see them mooning like no man's business, and once bull run starts for bitcoin or a bear rally starts, you see most of them dropping pretty fast. I guess the traders are just playing it out for profit at least that is the way I see it.

The complete market keeps rotating around bitcoin and this is a ground reality. I don’t know why people keep asking questions about this topic in different ways.

Simply keep in mind that bitcoin is the master of the crypto throne, without the permission of bitcoin no one can do anything. For any kind of increase and decrease they are totally dependent on bitcoin. Bitcoin is the ultimate father of all the coins.

It might be true but sometimes it does not apply. That’s why bitcoins price is always fluctuationg because you really can’t tell if altcoins go down with bitcoin or it does the opposite thing. The best thing to do, instead of relying on someone’s perception of bitcoins price is that you do your own research of its graph, educate yourself and learn on how to read the highs and lows.

You will just get confused if you follow that. We all know the bitcoin is going UP the altcoins will follow the same way as bitcoin. However, Sometime altcoin has major news / updates / forks / exchange listing etc.. which make their price jump even if bitcoin price is going down.

I think what you say is true. Bitcoin has a tremendous influence on the price of coins. A strong reason to answer that question I don't know. Maybe people see, if the price of bitcoin gets higher, it will be safe to invest in altcoins.

nahh this is not applicable to all altcoins so you don't have to rely on this one. You have to rely on your own research by basing it whether in fundamentals or technical analysis. This is just an opinion that is not a standard and not proven.

Of course, one can not say that everything always happens exactly like this, but sometimes it does. Such interdependencies can arise for different reasons and in different situations. Therefore, the trader always uses a certain set of knowledge to determine the general trend of movement in the market, and similar interdependence uses as an additional confirmation of his forecast.

For current situation i have seen when Bitcoin up or down some mayor altcoin will follow it,  And usually when the price going up or down,  the percentace of altcoin will higher. For example when Bitcoin up or down 4%, the mayor altcoin like ETH,  DASH,  XLM, NEO etc will be have bigger percentace. So this situation, you can use for buy and sell that altcoin.

At least from my personal perception, I get the impression that the domain of bitcoin in the market and in the psychology of investors seems to be growing more and more, and this is leading to the performance of most of the cryptos clearly draw a direct correlation with the price of bitcoin, so that the entire current market seems to depend solely and exclusively on the performance of bitcoin, which is a clear sign that investors are not worried about the underlying technology of each altcoin, but that they are only acquiring them to speculate.

it's true that maybe you saw that in the past and revealed it here, but the current market conditions are very different at that time so we can't make it a reference because sometimes bitcoin and altcoin move each other.

No at all, these three conceptions are just an illusion for cryptocurrency price movements. Sometimes the price of cryptocurrency moves by itself, I mean no one can predict where the price will arrive. However, most of the cryptocurrency prices can be influenced by the fundamentals, but sometimes I also see a lot of good information, but it doesn't affect the market situation, sometimes it makes me more curious.

Last year when Bitcoin all the times high, all altcoin was follow it. And after BTC price overbought and turn in to bearish so all altcoin also down trend . So far mayor altcoin followed price action of Bitcoin, so we can predict when Bitcoin price going up and ATH later , any possibility the price of mayor altcoin also will follow Bitcoin.

Well, it can not be denied really that this formula does work many times. There was only until last year when the formula was like, Bitcoin up = Altcoins up too. However things have changed recently, top 100 coins might just follow the foot step of bitcoin only. Go to the CMC and compared the graphical movement of the top 100 coins and you will see how they are matching to each other in similar manner. This is how it works, somehow all of them behaving in similar ways these days. But if you overlook the whole market then surely there are many similarities with what formula you have mentioned in the OP.

Not true.

Usually bitcoin has a lagging effect. So altcoins will move faster than bitcoin whether is it up or downwards.
Best is to sell alts to btc when alts overbought and then buy alts with btc when alts oversold...repeat
and become rich.

It does not work that way most of the time and that also depends though on how the altcoin market is, at every point in time. Sure, when bitcoin is in an uptrend consolidating and the altcoin market has hit the rock bottom, there is always that chance to see money being pushed into altcoin and normally, as that happens; we get to see the movements going crazy for them.

it has happened before and it will happen again at least until altcoins will be able to stand on their own and that can only come with real life usage in which they will easily have their own market without being dependent on bitcoin movement but for now, in most cases, it happens that way.

it is just the basis of the theory, but the whole thing is not always correct.
because in most cases it is. more or less this is like the focus of separate traders. when bitcoin is stable, this is a good time to start investing and trading on altcoins.

Sometimes the movement of bitcoin and altcoin is so close like a mother and child, but there are times for them to be independent so that they are not always in the path you have mentioned. Like the current situation many altcoins have their respective movements.

Actually when bitcoin started its bull run, all the altcoins took the fall for it as a lot of traders and investors opted into bitcoin and bitcoin really got to gain a huge dominance in the market. It was when the trend was about to change and bitcoin consolidated for a while, that the altcoins picked up and started doing some pretty crazy bull run, before eventually the general market hit the state of a downtrend and here we are now.

Sometimes, it is just about studying the market, making bitcoin as the most indicators in decision making, looking at the price actions on the altcoins as well and all in all, you will be able to make better decisions.