Bitcoin Forum

Does it not scare anyone that a communist country like China have so openly embraced the open-source technology of bitcoin, whilst supposed democracies such as the USA are doing all they can to regulate it. There's more on regulation from the US here:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/11/05/bitcoin-comes-under-senate-scrutiny/

Nope, I'm afraid this is a common thing of the Chinese proving they are far more intelligent and know more about economics than western countries ever have, you see this theme all the time with any discussion about the economy.

Good point, maybe the word "scare" was the wrong word to use, but nevertheless - I've always been told that we're fortunate to be growing up in a democratic society as opposed to a communist state such as China. I still believe that to be true, but when you see China going for bitcoins like there's no tomorrow, whilst the west would rather be indebted to the banking cartels and actually fund action to regulate something like bitcoin - it instills a little bit of fear, fear that if the western governments really want to get rid of bitcoin - they will. They'll create some bullshit regulations and bills. I don't live in the US, but over here in the UK, we're the monkeys playing monkey-see monkey-do. We're quick to follow US policy.

pfeh, it won't happen, they may shut down an exchange or two and arrest some people like they are doing now, but they won't stop us :)

China is driven by its own self-interest - an alternative store of value that cannot be fingered by central authority works for them

Think about it: Over $1Trn in US Treasuries - essentially you are the liquor owner selling booze to a drunk on credit

What if China were to hold even a miniscule fraction of its foreign reserves in BTC and not $?

Yep!

We can but dream :)

a very dangerous delusion.

China is shifting its reserves to BTC from the USD.




Winning! :D

BTC China is already the first BTC market exhange, isn't it ?

How can you guys idealize China after the Mao disaster was so recent?

My estimate is that at this time, the Chinese government and the U.S. government have about the same amount of interest in the well being of their common people.  Both probably do have the influence of powerful and wealthy driving much of their policy.  I suspect that the rates of corruption are higher in China than in the US, but there are differences in where, exactly, this corruption is prevalent and where it is mainly absent.  The political systems are notably different so it is difficult to make an apples-to-apples comparison sometimes.

I would say that the biggest difference between the U.S. and China is the rates of change of this corruption/prioritization.  I believe that the U.S. is rapidly changing for the worse, and I don't see the same thing in China (though I also don't have very good visibility into the latter.)

The most interesting thing to me is how the GINI index is so close between the two nations.  Both are up into the danger zone, and both nations view their own populations as their biggest threats and direct resource against the threats accordingly.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Gini_since_WWII.svg/720px-Gini_since_WWII.svg.png

You forgot taht China and USA think opposite.  China is a communist, USA is a democratic government.
China embraces anything they can get their hands on, especially for something as new as bitcoin.

Democracy means "rule by the people" in Greek. Is that what we have in the West? I say it's not, and so at least the Chinese government are honest about that part of the social contract with their people.


Money and who controls it is very political, more so than we are typically taught in economics or history. And so Bitcoin is as much a political movement as it is a financial/monetary one. The Chinese government see this very clearly, and are trying to corner the US and the EU. Bitcoin has been designed very carefully and thoughtfully to make it very difficult to regulate or control, especially to people who understand it and it's uses very well. Learn about it thoroughly, and you will see what the Chinese government are doing is not simply about getting in on a new fad of middling significance, they're trying to help steer the World towards something better than the way the world works now.

It's really the keystone in hope for the freedom of the World's ordinary people right now. This centuries old business of writing the US and EU blank cheques to run overt and covert wars and government overthrows across the world, then lie and lie and lie about it all, it must all stop. We need a monetary system that no government or organisation can take control of. This is the first, and possibly the last, attempt to do it.

I have watched China for a very long time, to the best of my ability.

While all governments are destructive to a greater or lesser degree, it seems that the chinese government does at least learn from it's mistakes. While the USA engages in madness (doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results) the chinese run into a wall, then go around it, then run into a different wall. Not ideal, but definitely better than engaging in pure madness.

If I have read correctly, the "1 billion starving chinamen' quote is no longer valid. They are now able to feed themselves without importing food. Of one thing I'm certain: Their economy is rising, along with their influence, and the USA needs them more than they need the USA. They know it, and so does Washington. This is very dangerous for the chinese, because Washington doesn't like to have powerful rivals. They have been the most rapacious of thieves for a great many years.

It doesn't scare me, it actually relieves me to some extent knowing that an economic powerhouse is adopting its use. This will contribute to the stability of bitcoin and will stimulate its growth. The fact that it's going global will render any attempts by our government to stifle or control it futile.

+1

My best guess a well.  A disruptive technology such as Bitcoin is going to assist the world's reserve currency's demise more than it will hurt China's.  And the more that is in the hands of Chinese citizens, the easier it will be to manipulate things in various ways.  For long-term planning, I would not count on the posture of the Chinese government to remain complete static though.

There really are some incredibly intelligent people on here. Really appreciate everyone's opinion.

That doesn't surprise me at all, we should understand the fact that China is driven by money like every other country, and China is BIG.  ;)

Is it possible that the Chinese goverment itself is buying up bitcoins? For a couple billion dollar investment they could slowly and stealthily build a huge position.  This has the advantages negating bitcoins as a risk to them, and building it as a risk against the US.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were, they enjoy holding anything that has value and they've used that against the U.S for years without them even realising it, the Chinese government has also been encouraging their citizens to buy up Gold and the other usual precious metals.

http://www.noblecoins.com/Gold-and-Silver-Investment/Gold-investment/china-promoting-buying-of-gold.html ( will find a better source once I look around later at the mainstream news stuff )

Does is scare anyone that a communist country like the USA or a communist region like the EU embrace it?


The US Government is the largest state holder of Bitcoin currently.  If they want to catch up, they will have to have a bunch of drug sales organizers hang out there that they can bust and seize.
Or just spend a lot.

Scares me more that they haven't. Besides, the US is more fascist than communist :) Good mix of both, though.

Maybe, though much more overtly communist than fascist.  US has diligently followed Marx's manifesto increasing as it goes.

http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/tenplanks.html

Who knows what the future will hold though?

Oh, we know in gross what it holds. No massively inflating fiat currency has ever survived, and it's rare that it's issuing authority doesn't go down with the ship.

And yeah, I know they are more overtly communist, but the core difference between the two socialist flavors, economically, is the hand in glove partnership between key industrial leaders and the state. Communism rejects that, philosophically at least. Haven't the time to read your link yet, so I may edit this in a few days.

Big Yes.

China adopts currencies the rest of the world adopts children.

No, I think it's a very good thing because even if they, the Chinese state, is acting like they like BTC, it is disruptive and will weaken the state.

It doesn't really bother me I love when everyone has bitcoins :D

Very intelligent indeed...
Without the environment, there is no economy or society.

http://www.marketing-chine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/pollution-chine.jpg

I have nothing against wanting clean air/environments and not using Nuclear Power Plants but environmentalists have dug themselves into a hole by repeatedly trying to scare people into doing what they say rather than use scientific facts. The world isn't going to end because of carbon dioxide, the world is going to end because we have incompetent morons building Nuclear Power Plants right next to major cities that could explode at any time because even if you ran them like a military complex as the Japanese did something is going to set it off.

You may as well be sitting on a nuclear bomb and seeing how long it takes before that goes off.

Yes.


I think, no one can buy up all. I think some governments finding a suitable way to reduce risk, since bitcoin is based with mathematical ,traceable, which should be trusted.

Communism and democracy are not a dichotomy. Democracy is a political system and communism is an economic system. autocracy is the opposite of democracy and capitalism is the opposite of communism.

So i think you either mean to say: "I've always been told that we're fortunate to be growing up in a democratic society as opposed to an autocratic state such as China" or; "I've always been told that we're fortunate to be growing up in a capitalist society as opposed to a communist state such as China".

Yes, there's no doubt I feel very lucky to have been born in a capitalist democracy rather than a communist or similar country.  I just don't think we should rest on our laurels and think we are free because we have more freedoms than those other countries.    Our own governments are the greatest threat to our freedoms.  Not the terrorists (who for the most part only exist because of Western Govts aggression) nor these other countries goverments who have a hard enough time keeping their own people down.  It's our govts taking away our freedoms and telling us that we are free who are the danger.  Why do they need to to tell us we're free all the time?  If we were free , it would be self-evident and there would be no need to say it constantly.  Nor is it that people in other countries hate us for our freedoms.  No, they hate the US for interfering in their countries, they don't care if the people themselves in the US are free or not, why would they?  It's a ridiculous concept to think that they do.  They care about their own lives in their own countries just as most Americans care about their own lives in America.  The recent uprising's show that fundamentally, these people want to be free too.   It seems more than ever that it's most Americans who are eager to throw away their freedom for (illusory) security.  

They'll figure it out.

First people invent a thing. Then it causes unintended problems in addition to the solution it was supposed to address. Then they tweak the design to solve the new problems. On success, the cycle repeats. This has been the nature of our species for as long as we are able to reconstruct it.

Right now, China is economically and socially about where the United States was in the early twentieth century, though with much higher levels of available technology. As the average chinese people become more affluent, it will become apparent to them that living in a cesspool is unattractive, and they will start doing things to tone down the polluition. How bad a problem it is at that point is another question, but the pattern has gone on for a long time, and I see no reason why it will not continue. Technology is more often evolutionary than revolutionary, we just tend to see the big jumps over the small ones.

+ infinity!!! I can't add much to that, except that Americans have forgotten the prescient words of one of our founders. "They that can exchange essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

while we do enjoy some freedoms that chinese people don't (such as the freedom of speech), don't we end up getting fucked over by the government the same way? it's just a jerry rigged game that requires you fuck over the regular guy to get to the top.

We can only hope that China understood potential in bitcoin. One just can't resist new technology forever. Well, in fact but only if he can accept that the world is outperforming him.

Only if the state is seen as illegitimate by its constituents. It seems likely that all governments will have to start adapting their policies to cope with the coming wave of "digital tax havens". Governments that are more responsive will naturally have an advantage over those that are late to the party. As often seems to be the case with new technology, (assuming rational behaviour) the big players will be eager to incubate Bitcoin on home soil to get maximum benefit from it later.

Definitely so, China is a huge market and a very big country ...