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Title: z Post by: znort987 on July 28, 2011, 07:31:44 PM z
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: hugolp on July 28, 2011, 07:34:33 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on July 28, 2011, 08:03:51 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source (see gcc vs. egcs for example). I just wanna point out that gcc kicks ass, good reference point :) Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: hugolp on July 28, 2011, 08:04:52 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source You've either completely missed my point or never actually worked on an open source project before (or both). Assuming it's the latter, you need to realize that opensource isn't the same as democracy: Which is very good in my book. Democracy, facism, etc... all kind of authoritarian systems, apart from being inmoral are not efficient. Quote opensource projects are very often in practice controlled by a tiny group of trusted individuals. When large disagreements about the code occur, there is either a unilateral decision taken by those folks, or the project is forked (see gcc vs. egcs for example). These don't occur that often for open source stuff because there is rarely an incentive large enough to maintain a fork for very long. But in the case of bitcoin, the incentive may get arbitrarily large. Also, for bitcoin, neither of these scenarios (fork or control by a small group) are particularly pleasant. Consider the following scenario: at some point in the future, it may very well become a good idea to augment the precision of the BTC (that is, allow for more than 8 digit after the decimal dot). How will approval for such a change get "voted" ? If by voted you mean that the community would choose which client to use, then thats how you "vote". Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: EricJ2190 on July 28, 2011, 08:07:59 PM If the code were changed in some incompatible way, it would be noticed and publicly announced online by the community. If the change is disapproved of by the community, nodes (in particular, the mining pools) will refuse to upgrade to this new version.
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: hugolp on July 28, 2011, 08:25:07 PM If by voted you mean that the community would choose which client to use, then thats how you "vote". In other words ... democracy, a system which, as you just mentioned, is rather flawed, especially when the non-techie crowd moves in, one that can rather easily be manipulated. BTW, I am not clamoring doom for bitcoin. I am just trying to point out that however well designed and solid the system is from a technical pov, I am not yet convinced of its robustness from a social engineering pov. But here is the catch: the incentives are resversed in respect to a (government) democracy. If you are a user of bitcoins and have some amount of bitcoins and spect to earn more bitcoins in the future, and you are faced with the option of choosing between two clients: one that devaluates your money over time and the other that does not, which one would you choose? Also, it would not be a disaster that the bitcoin chain even forks in two (or more) option. Let the community that offerst the best money win. Quote Ah ! Now there's an interesting answer: the bigger the pools the more sway they'll have on bitcoin's future. And this is the main reason anarchism unfortunately fails: there is no mechanism/feedback loop to prevent the accumulation and concentration of power and influence. First, the pools hold as much power as their users want. If a pool does something that the miners participating in that pool dont like, they will leave and the pool will loose importance. More in general, anarchy has a mechanism to avoid concentration: not having a government, that is what allows a few to gain excesive power over the rest. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: BillX on July 28, 2011, 08:26:05 PM If the code were changed in some incompatible way, it would be noticed and publicly announced online by the community. If the change is disapproved of by the community, nodes (in particular, the mining pools) will refuse to upgrade to this new version. Ah ! Now there's an interesting answer: the bigger the pools the more sway they'll have on bitcoin's future. And this is the main reason anarchism unfortunately fails: there is no mechanism/feedback loop to prevent the accumulation and concentration of power and influence. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: fitty on July 28, 2011, 08:26:27 PM Much of bitcoin safety relies on its distributed nature, and in particular on the fact that the same code runs everywhere, implementing the same pre-agreed-upon protocol to reaches a distributed agreement on the state of the blockchain and what constitutes a valid block. What this means is that to significantly change bitcoin (for example changing how many BTC get created by each new block, or removing the 21M limit, etc ...), all you have to do is change the bitcoin code and wait a while until it percolates out to all the clients (or actually, to more than 50% of them). How hard would that be in practice, I wonder ? In my opinion, if you are a government, not that hard. The code is in fact "controlled" by a rather small-ish group of individuals. Influencing this small group (especially once the incentives get large enough) to get them to change the code of the official client in a certain way is likely going to be a walk in the park for someone the size of a government. Once the source code of the official client has been changed in a significant and potentially incompatible way, how long will it take for the new implementation to "win" out there ? Another way to think about this: how will bitcoin manage "forks" in the client code ? What if someone successfully manages to fragment the bitcoin community into multiple implementations ? Yet another way to think about this: how does one enforces the "integrity" of the source code and the folks who have sway over it ? Thoughts ? If there is truly a need and desire for a virtual peer to peer currency, one will always exist in some form. The code is out there, the methods are out there, anyone can now create their own currency. It's like saying that if you shut down the pirate bay after their first year it would have stopped all the torrent sites. Maybe you could kill Bitcoin. What about Namecoin? Smartcoin? The next 10 currencies that try to fill the place of Bitcoin? Virtual peer to peer currency is here, and it's unlikely to go away. And what government? All of them? *lol* Good luck with that. Has the US govt ever shut something down? I still have friends playing poker. Buying drugs. Downloading torrents. Browsing wikileaks. Is there something out there on the internet the govt has actually stopped people from doing? Relax dude, we're fine. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: EricJ2190 on July 28, 2011, 09:05:37 PM Since Bitcoin is often viewed as a democracy, it seems pools change this from a direct to a representative democracy. Pools are the representatives which we elect by mining for them.
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: wareen on July 28, 2011, 09:37:55 PM Messing with the source code or the pools is probably not an option - far too risky to raise suspicion and once it's detected you'd most likely have lost the fight due to public awareness of secret unlawful intervention against Bitcoin.
The best way IMHO would be to declare Bitcoin as _the_ currency used by all the bad guys on the Internet - maybe even orchestrate one or two fake cases with some highly despicable activity (eg. cp) beforehand. With minimal effort you'd have pretty much the whole public against Bitcoin and no-one would like to be associated with it anymore. The next easy step for you would be to forbid merchants to accept Bitcoin and banks to process transactions to the exchanges. Nobody would dare to oppose due to the bad public image of Bitcoin you created. Remember that governments usually are bad when it comes to fight with technology - they are much better at fighting with politics. I think that's one of the reasons why we should care about the public image of Bitcoin at least as much as about the technical security of the network. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: willphase on July 28, 2011, 10:23:47 PM OP has a good point - governments could equally also mess with the Linux source, or the Windows source or the chipset microcode running on my computer and then when people install bitcoin on their systems just go and STEAL ALL THEIR BITCOIN!!1111one
Tin foil hat! Will Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: tvbcof on July 28, 2011, 10:57:19 PM One possibility would be for the powers that be to adopt Bitcoin as legitimate.
Those who have a lionshare of the wealth now could transfer to having a lionshare of Bitcoin. Bitcoin, like gold, is probably a better tool so subjugate the plebs with than is fiat currency. Can be hoarded more effectively and it's release can have a bigger impact. Then the question becomes, what are the plebs to do? My suggestion would be at that point to vote to switch en-mass to abandon BTC and switch to BTC-II or whatever. In that way, I consider BTC to be preferable to gold. (Actually I've got a different idea which I am working on, but it's not mature yet.) Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Piper67 on July 29, 2011, 02:17:33 AM One possibility would be for the powers that be to adopt Bitcoin as legitimate. Those who have a lionshare of the wealth now could transfer to having a lionshare of Bitcoin. Bitcoin, like gold, is probably a better tool so subjugate the plebs with than is fiat currency. Can be hoarded more effectively and it's release can have a bigger impact. Then the question becomes, what are the plebs to do? My suggestion would be at that point to vote to switch en-mass to abandon BTC and switch to BTC-II or whatever. In that way, I consider BTC to be preferable to gold. (Actually I've got a different idea which I am working on, but it's not mature yet.) Yup, I wrote something to that effect here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14163.msg192458#msg192458 Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: bitrebel on July 29, 2011, 09:10:25 AM There's only one way the government can ever destroy bitcoin and I hesitate to speak about that here.
All they would have to do is one simple thing and the most diehards would run for cover. One simple solution to destroy bitcoin for good. But they never will.... Embrace it! If they did, I would sell mine in a a heartbeat and never look back. Good thing I know they never will. The main problem for us is the fact that the central banking debt based currency is printed out of thin air. All Rothschilds has to do, is print 10 Billion, buy all the bitcoins in existence and they will own 1/3 right off the bat. Then wait 5 years, and buy another 1/3. "Give me Control over a nation's currency, and I care not who programs the algorithm." Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Valhalla1 on July 29, 2011, 09:17:48 AM they could wait until the majority of clients on the network are on devices they control, like smartphones. If bitcoin takes off, could we see >50% of the nodes being android or similar devices being used at points of sale by consumers? If so, could they not silently inject a bad client? Assuming the US government can remotely inject code to your phone, which many people believe they have been able to control mobile phones for years
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: bitrebel on July 29, 2011, 09:20:51 AM they could wait until the majority of clients on the network are on devices they control, like smartphones. If bitcoin takes off, could we see >50% of the nodes being android or similar devices being used at points of sale by consumers? If so, could they not silently inject a bad client? Assuming the US government can remotely inject code to your phone, which many people believe they have been able to control mobile phones for years A very far reach, IMO. Nobody with half a brain does things that obviously. Any direct attack would imply bitcoin was something to be reckoned with. That is against all rules of direct engagement. The first rule of direct engagement is not to engage directly. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: JoelKatz on July 29, 2011, 09:38:22 AM In my opinion, if you are a government, not that hard. The code is in That smallish group of individuals only has control because nobody has a reason to wrest it from them. If that group refused to accept needed improvements, added changes that defeat the spirit of bitgoin, or even just fail to keep up with competing technologies, others would simply switch to a competing project and/or nodes would just refuse to upgrade. To prevent that mechanism from working would require an almost totalitarian restriction on people's ability to communicate.fact "controlled" by a rather small-ish group of individuals. Influencing this small group (especially once the incentives get large enough) to get them to change the code of the official client in a certain way is likely going to be a walk in the park for someone the size of a government. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: JoelKatz on July 29, 2011, 09:39:08 AM they could wait until the majority of clients on the network are on devices they control, like smartphones. If bitcoin takes off, could we see >50% of the nodes being android or similar devices being used at points of sale by consumers? If so, could they not silently inject a bad client? Assuming the US government can remotely inject code to your phone, which many people believe they have been able to control mobile phones for years The could make a client they could corrupt say whatever they want, but they can't make non-corrupt clients honor it.Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Gabi on July 29, 2011, 10:01:39 AM What a fail system to destroy bitcoin... seriously, are you joking?
A government would simply spend 15 millions $, get enuff GPUs, do a 51% attack and ta-dah, done. And 15 millions $ is nothing for a government Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Stephen Gornick on July 29, 2011, 05:58:40 PM In my opinion, if you are a government, not that hard. [...] to get them to change the code of the official client in a certain way is likely going to be a walk in the park for someone the size of a government. About a year ago some of the cypherpunks were on a panel and one of the discussions was about how, at the time when the export of most encryption was not allowed, the big question was how long before the U.S. government would stop them with their plans to spread civilian use of cryptography globally?: - http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/6136537609 Nearly two decades later, Philip R. Zimmerman concludes -- didn't happen, and the government never made contact with the group even. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: tvbcof on July 29, 2011, 06:44:46 PM ... The main problem for us is the fact that the central banking debt based currency is printed out of thin air. All Rothschilds has to do, is print 10 Billion, buy all the bitcoins in existence and they will own 1/3 right off the bat. Then wait 5 years, and buy another 1/3. "Give me Control over a nation's currency, and I care not who programs the algorithm." Having a monopoly in just about anything certainly imparts a fair level of control. I think the modern Rothchild would care more about 'who programs the algorithm' if a re-program of the algorithm (and sufficient adoption of it) could render their hoard valueless. Back in the day, pitchforks were the answer when the pressure became to intense. Normally it was fairly easy to mitigate the damages if you kept a low profile and planned sufficiently for an exit event. The mobs tended to have a more immediate interest in food than in chunks of metal anyway I would suspect. If the use of pitchforks could somehow shift to a method of paying attention to the options in terms of programmers and re-installing some software, I could see it as a good thing. And a good reason why something like Bitcoin is unlikely to be very popular with any but the most benevolent of leaderships. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: the founder on July 29, 2011, 06:51:23 PM I could destroy bitcoins in 20 seconds flat if I was the US government. Doing nothing illegal... and I could wipe out the currency in literally 6 weeks with about 3 - 5 million bucks..
3 backroom deals with mt. gox, tradehill and dwolla ... 1-2 million each for 51% ownership of each.... and any startup that get's a decent volume.. make a similar deal... that would stop trading pretty quick... the owners would like the payout (which is huge to them, tiny to a country that takes in a few trillion a year in revenue) so they have no incentive to hide their shit... and the US government effectively would be in full control of bitcoins.. all without even passing a law. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: bitrebel on July 29, 2011, 07:02:59 PM I could destroy bitcoins in 20 seconds flat if I was the US government. Doing nothing illegal... and I could wipe out the currency in literally 6 weeks with about 3 - 5 million bucks.. 3 backroom deals with mt. gox, tradehill and dwolla ... 1-2 million each for 51% ownership of each.... and any startup that get's a decent volume.. make a similar deal... that would stop trading pretty quick... the owners would like the payout (which is huge to them, tiny to a country that takes in a few trillion a year in revenue) so they have no incentive to hide their shit... and the US government effectively would be in full control of bitcoins.. all without even passing a law. Buyouts.....the medium of last resort for Aristocrats Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: fitty on July 29, 2011, 07:06:32 PM I could destroy bitcoins in 20 seconds flat if I was the US government. Doing nothing illegal... and I could wipe out the currency in literally 6 weeks with about 3 - 5 million bucks.. 3 backroom deals with mt. gox, tradehill and dwolla ... 1-2 million each for 51% ownership of each.... and any startup that get's a decent volume.. make a similar deal... that would stop trading pretty quick... the owners would like the payout (which is huge to them, tiny to a country that takes in a few trillion a year in revenue) so they have no incentive to hide their shit... and the US government effectively would be in full control of bitcoins.. all without even passing a law. You're joking right? Bitcoin doesn't need the TradeHill, Gox, Dwolla. They could all fuck off right now and within a month things would be back to normal. You're assuming those 3 sites ARE Bitcoin. They're not. Bitcoin is a currency, and it's about those people using it as a currency. It's like saying getting rid of ISOhunt, Pirbatebay and Torrentz would put a stop to pirating. *lol* TradeHill only exists on the level it does now because Gox was hacked and down for 2 weeks. So what happens if all 3 of those places disappear? More pop up. Those get "bought out", more pop up. People will just make exchanges (someone will open source it) just to get bought up! Compare it to pirating. Why doesn't the govt just buy all the torrent sites? Could probably get the top 500 torrent sites for maybe 100 million. Problem solved right? Pirating is costing billions if you listen to the music industry. Why don't they just buy up all the torrent sites! Genius! Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Piper67 on July 29, 2011, 07:24:21 PM I could destroy bitcoins in 20 seconds flat if I was the US government. Doing nothing illegal... and I could wipe out the currency in literally 6 weeks with about 3 - 5 million bucks.. 3 backroom deals with mt. gox, tradehill and dwolla ... 1-2 million each for 51% ownership of each.... and any startup that get's a decent volume.. make a similar deal... that would stop trading pretty quick... the owners would like the payout (which is huge to them, tiny to a country that takes in a few trillion a year in revenue) so they have no incentive to hide their shit... and the US government effectively would be in full control of bitcoins.. all without even passing a law. You're joking right? Bitcoin doesn't need the TradeHill, Gox, Dwolla. They could all fuck off right now and within a month things would be back to normal. You're assuming those 3 sites ARE Bitcoin. They're not. Bitcoin is a currency, and it's about those people using it as a currency. It's like saying getting rid of ISOhunt, Pirbatebay and Torrentz would put a stop to pirating. *lol* TradeHill only exists on the level it does now because Gox was hacked and down for 2 weeks. So what happens if all 3 of those places disappear? More pop up. Those get "bought out", more pop up. People will just make exchanges (someone will open source it) just to get bought up! Compare it to pirating. Why doesn't the govt just buy all the torrent sites? Could probably get the top 500 torrent sites for maybe 100 million. Problem solved right? Pirating is costing billions if you listen to the music industry. Why don't they just buy up all the torrent sites! Genius! Agreed... Bitcoin is the elegant idea... MtGox, Tradehill, Dwolla and, for that matter, US dollars, Canadian dollars, Euros and GBPs are but a means to an end. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: phelix on August 01, 2011, 10:08:58 AM it is hard to destroy bitcoin but easy for a government to suppress it.
if it is prohibited to sell for bitcoins they have little use for most people. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: BCEmporium on August 01, 2011, 11:13:02 AM Sorry OP, that "sabotage plan" would only work if you assume something like all (or at least 50%) of the bitcoin users are completely retards.
Gvmts can however shake bitcoin, ie by creating a price bubble and let it blast, do it 3 or 4 times in a row and the community starts to disintegrate due to lack of trust and general high losses (high gains to some but overall a HYIP). Or they can forbid its use... but the experiences about "dry laws" aren't that good, are they? Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: kwukduck on August 01, 2011, 01:43:05 PM Most effective i think, would be to just make bitcoin exchange illegal.
Arrest a few people, give them a few years jail-time. Everybody gets scared, value drops, more people cash out, only a hand full of die-hard hackers/anons keep using it at 0.05USD/BTC Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: the founder on August 01, 2011, 02:15:53 PM how about 1/2 a dozen datacenters dedicated to mining rigs setup by the NSA... after it get's to the point where they have a decent majority of of the mining then they start messing around with double spending, etc etc...
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: xcooling on August 01, 2011, 02:27:13 PM Most likly scenario will be that Hackers and scammers will destroy bitcoin, Because there is no way to make sure all the numerous endpoints have correct security mechanisms in place and that they will stay honest over a long period... there lies the very weekness.
Example would be mybitcoin, which for a novice user is like paypal for bitcoin. We need the novice users (investors) to make the currency work. Everytime they get scammed or hacked you loose investor confidence. I lost a large portion of bitcoin.. do i care no.. but most will. For a government to destroy bitcoin or any large company, they could buy up all the bitcoin and wipeout the martket. us$~100million is not that much for them to loose. Or a corporate entity could lobby governments and have bitcoin declared as illegal.. thus freezing all the bank accounts that are suspected of trading or handling bitcoin. If u are unable to freely buy and sell bitcoin with physical currency, bitcoin will die. Oh and one final point to ponder.. how long until someone figures out how to counterfeit a bitcoin... Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Piper67 on August 01, 2011, 02:42:58 PM Most effective i think, would be to just make bitcoin exchange illegal. Arrest a few people, give them a few years jail-time. Everybody gets scared, value drops, more people cash out, only a hand full of die-hard hackers/anons keep using it at 0.05USD/BTC Yup, just like music downloads, porn, the war on drugs... That'll work ;D Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: BCEmporium on August 01, 2011, 03:05:15 PM Most effective i think, would be to just make bitcoin exchange illegal. Arrest a few people, give them a few years jail-time. Everybody gets scared, value drops, more people cash out, only a hand full of die-hard hackers/anons keep using it at 0.05USD/BTC Yup, just like music downloads, porn, the war on drugs... That'll work ;D ...and because "the World is USA", so "Uncle Sam" would make it illegal and that's it... ::) US already has no money to cover its own debt and it's a few hours away from being downgraded to bellow junk (along with consequential USD plummeting), let alone set up another global campaign, like the so called "war on drugs", financing. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Rassah on August 01, 2011, 03:18:58 PM For a government to destroy bitcoin or any large company, they could buy up all the bitcoin and wipeout the martket. us$~100million is not that much for them to loose. Every time someone buys a Bitcoin, the next Bitcoin costs them more. If a government tried to buy all the Bitcoins, the first Bitcoin may cost them $13.50, but very last Bitcoin they buy will likely cost them over $100million. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Piper67 on August 01, 2011, 03:23:31 PM For a government to destroy bitcoin or any large company, they could buy up all the bitcoin and wipeout the martket. us$~100million is not that much for them to loose. Every time someone buys a Bitcoin, the next Bitcoin costs them more. If a government tried to buy all the Bitcoins, the first Bitcoin may cost them $13.50, but very last Bitcoin they buy will likely cost them over $100million. They wouldn't need to buy them all, probably more like a million or so. Yes, it would drive the price up, but it would still be a bargain by US government spending standards. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: xcooling on August 01, 2011, 03:24:20 PM USA wont be downgraded.. look at the companies that do the ratings, they all got handouts in 2008/9.
The "debt crisis" was just a bunch of politics to make the average joe feel like their government is doing something to curb debt spending. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: JoelKatz on August 06, 2011, 01:20:01 PM They wouldn't need to buy them all, probably more like a million or so. Yes, it would drive the price up, but it would still be a bargain by US government spending standards. So you're suggesting that they could kill bitcoin by making everyone involved in it rich?Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: BCEmporium on August 06, 2011, 01:43:02 PM USA wont be downgraded.. look at the companies that do the ratings, they all got handouts in 2008/9. hrm.He was just believing that US could keep raising its debt to the infinite by increasing debt ceiling, way beyond any possible payment, without any penalty... Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Bazil on August 06, 2011, 02:50:09 PM If the government wanted to destroy bitcoin what they could do is do business with bitcoins and every bitcoin they got, just send to one wallet file and either destroy it or never use it. This would cause deflation till there were very few bitcoins left. With the current amount of bitcoins they could go on an exchange and buy them all up pretty easy.
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: phelix on August 09, 2011, 06:56:32 PM If the government wanted to destroy bitcoin what they could do is do business with bitcoins and every bitcoin they got, just send to one wallet file and either destroy it or never use it. This would cause deflation till there were very few bitcoins left. With the current amount of bitcoins they could go on an exchange and buy them all up pretty easy. that is impossible because the price would rise like crazy. Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: the founder on August 17, 2011, 02:37:33 PM perhaps the scariest, have the IRS start auditing dowalla and filter from there for people that transferred to mtgox, tradehill, etc. that would shut it down or at least partially shut it down for a long time.
Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: evoorhees on August 17, 2011, 03:18:26 PM If the government wanted to destroy bitcoin what they could do is do business with bitcoins and every bitcoin they got, just send to one wallet file and either destroy it or never use it. This would cause deflation till there were very few bitcoins left. With the current amount of bitcoins they could go on an exchange and buy them all up pretty easy. This would not work and would cost the government a lot of money... so maybe they'll try it =) It doesn't work because Bitcoins are infinitely divisible. Short term they're divisible to 8 decimal places, but long term more decimal places can be added. The ramifications of this are quite remarkable really... for if the gov bought 20 million coins and destroyed them, there would still be 1,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 currency units available (assuming all coins have been mined). Then, two more decimal places can be added and there would be more units than the system started with! Now, most people get very turned off by that, believing it to be inflation. However, it does not have the adverse effects of "money printing," because the unit values are instantly reflected among all holders of the Bitcoins. When the Gov prints money, your bank account doesn't increase in proportion, thus you've been robbed. When Bitcoins are added through new decimal places, every client reflects this, as do prices, and thus no significant adverse or immoral effect is caused. So if the Government started buying coins to destroy them, it would send the value sky high, and there would always and forever be enough units of the currency to enable trade. In the same way, it doesn't matter how many people lose their own coins (it's only bad for those people, not for the economy or other holders of the remaining coins). Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: Gabi on August 17, 2011, 03:36:56 PM If the government wanted to destroy bitcoin what they could do is do business with bitcoins and every bitcoin they got, just send to one wallet file and either destroy it or never use it. This would cause deflation till there were very few bitcoins left. With the current amount of bitcoins they could go on an exchange and buy them all up pretty easy. If they do this the bitcoin price will rise to almost infinite So, i hope they do that, i'll become super rich 8) Title: Re: How I would destroy bitcoin if I was a goverment Post by: miscreanity on August 19, 2011, 02:42:14 AM They wouldn't need to buy them all, probably more like a million or so. Yes, it would drive the price up, but it would still be a bargain by US government spending standards. So you're suggesting that they could kill bitcoin by making everyone involved in it rich?LOL I was thinking the same thing. Most of the ideas here are good attempts but would either cause wider adoption on global basis, a rise in the value of Bitcoins or wind up being irrelevant. One of the more plausible would be cracking down on the exchanges and payment services such as Dwolla, but there is no absolute necessity to convert Bitcoins to any other currency once the incentive to use BTC over EUR/USD/JPY or what-have-you is great enough. If you take away my livelihood, I'll go make my living somewhere else. In other words: if my money is worthless, I'll use a different money. There has never been any measure fully successful at outlawing an alternate currency in any nation that has seen its legal, domestic currency lose value. Bitcoin is even more surreptitious and insidious to a government than physical pieces of paper. The usage cost of Bitcoin is so minimal that it completely trumps existing currencies. |