Bitcoin Forum

Update: (Nov 12, 2013): Published Mitosys proposal in Bitsharestalk.org (http://"http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=410.0") forum. Bitshares is a product of Invictus Innovations (http://"http://invictus-innovations.com/") who specializes in the creation of Cryptocurrencies and other Decentralized Solutions. If this other thread gets quality attention and followup in Bitsharestalk forum most probably we will be publishing only there for practical purposes.

Update: (Nov 11, 2013): Created Trello Dashboard
 (https://trello.com/b/jwYHyymU/mitosys-alpha) for Mitosys Development. Currently we need help on polishing the Draft, identifying the necessary code that must be developed to implement this, set the proper bounties according to market and attracting the right developers (who can co-work and claim bounty together if they want to)

Update: (Nov 11, 2013): Bounty of 28+ BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286536.0) for the following:
- Creation of a Mini-Blockchain code and basic client implementation (20 BTC)
- Zero confirmation-transactions (2.5 BTC) - comment: I believe this has been solved by Eli-Ben Sasson with SCIP, although I do not know if his implementation is Open Source or not-
- Re-mining of lost blocks (2.5 BTC) -comment: This I do not know if it is necessary-



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Hi guys,

Due to a good suggestion of my friend ripper234 (Ron Gross) I'm doing this short but sweet.

A new concept is in the making. And the project is moving forward.

WHO:

I'm a Bitcoin enthusiast who has been following developments in the shadows for quite a time.
Zumbí was a brave Afro-brazilian slave who became a warrior. He trained other fellow slaves to fight and escape opression by living in free colonies. Hence, my nom-de-guerre. But I am rather peaceful and believe free people and free markets are what unleashes human creativity and progress.

WHAT:

MITOSYS: A new cryptocurrency that is mined through a proof of work which is the capability of relaying encrypted transmissions over the established internet, or through informal parallel peer-to-peer networks.

HOW:

You help other people transmit encrypted data, you earn credit. Data will be temporarily stored in a dynamic blockchain that prunes itself to keep the size down, and account balances will be stored in a separate distributed archive called the account tree. Mobiles will be fundamental and the main target of this distributed network.

WHY:

- - To get rid of government spying and its armed forces, the oligopolic telecom carriers, ISPs and big data companies that provide them with all our information.
- - To bring affordable and secure communication to the masses.
- - To give people a store of wealth derived of a basic human need which is to communicate freely and universally.
- - To provide a deeper meaning to mining, which will be not only acquiring the right to store financial information that cannot be destroyed, but also acquiring the right of having ones information securely delivered in time.

WHERE:

Development will take place in bitcointalk.org and github, plus distributed encrypted backup copies of all work. Maybe even copy information in Bitcoin's blockchain.
Main markets are USA, Brazil, Russia, India and China.

WHEN: Right now!

I'm recruiting a peaceful army of skilled, resourceful, practical idealists who can carry this forward together.

For more information see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327186

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Good stuff!


I think you ought to add a quick comparison of this project to bit-message, to help readers place this in the ecosystem.

Also I don't think you should link to a post in the newbie forum for further details ...
Instead I'll just copy your original more detailed post to Google Drive (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hCUmK1bpEMrzh7aT00WRDhCWbiLz1YWXlVGZStlroGg/edit).

I've set the editing option to "anyone with the link" - so you all can comment and edit the document.
Ideally this stuff should migrate to github just like we're doing with the Mastercoin Spec (https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec).

Oh, and I repeat my suggestion to choose a name and include it in the title of this thread.
If nothing else, it helps people easily find this thread via Google if they remember the name.

I like this idea, I like a Crypto-Currency based on a service. A few things,

1) will the system have checks and balances to control inflation/deflation?
    - like things to make it so that if it becomes extreamly popular that the system isn't just pooping out tons and tons of coins?

2) I've got to wonder if the information would be that much more secure if it was held in a public ledger which in theory could be cracked.
    ( I may have misunderstood that though.)


Maybe an idea to add into it all.

- A system where people could sell of CPU/Ram power directly into the system and other users could buy it, like directly from the client.
   ( so that when there was no data that needed to be transmitted then the users could still be working in the network and the coins could still be      gained by workers with out them having to be minted, keep inflation down as well.)

Posted to reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1q5921/ann_mitosys_new_encrypted_communications/).

Dear ripper234:

Thank you for your continued support and mentoring. You are a big help to us.

Regarding Mitosys and Bitmessage:

The most obvious comparison that is not related to technical, but fundamental issues, is that people relay encrypted messages for free in Bitmessage, while paying for electricity, hardware and internet service.

I would like to ask someone to copy and paste the whole text in a Google Doc because since I believe privacy is an underrated asset, that will help me keep mine in the meantime until this goes past mainstream.


Dear Brandon1000:

1) In the draft that I wrote I described that its essential to have a limited supply and a difficulty curve to control emission, in order to have a currency which is a store of value.
What is the optimal way of designing an emission rate/difficulty curve? We don't know yet but collective brainstorming will bring the answer

2) Regarding the information being on a public ledger: The information is encrypted (much like PGP garble you see before decrypting it) and only the intended recipient will hold the private key to decrypt data, either the sender or the recipient could pay Mitosys coins in order to get the message through.

That extra suggestion regarding a CPU/RAM market is great, most likely better to implement it after the secure communication protocol is done, since its the most urgent need for billions of people worldwide. Thanks!

Everything even the concepts are in alpha mode and most probably there are things which are not logical however this is why this is being shared with all the community, in order to perfect it.

We look forward to further feedback from you all!

This is not going to work.

You can retain your privacy through various means ... but if you setup a dedicated Google account for this purpose and only use it for stuff that are public anyway, you are not really relinquishing any privacy.

I think you need to learn to be private about private things, but public about public things, and let Google have your TOR IP and public docs ... it doesn't really constitute a loss of privacy as long as you don't use it for anything important.

Not relying on cloud infrastructure would be a hinderance. In the future you can disentangle yourself and Mitosys from these sort of services, but for now adopting them will just speed you up tremendously.

BTW I will be muting this thread for a few days due to lack of time. I'll check back later...

Ron

On our Facebook group someone mentioned gli.ph as a potential competitor.
I don't know them well enough, but I doubt they have the same vision ... but worth checking them out in more detail anyway.

Gli.ph is very cool however I do agree that there are many fundamental differences with Mitosys:

Gliph is an anonymizing business which enables users to do many things, for example send an already existing crypto currency (Bitcoin) to other users without revealing your identity, connect with others without revealing your email and personal information until you are ready to do so.

It is a central entity, which is also a central point of failure, and connects with other centralized entities such as Coinbase or BIPS. Whether if encrypted or not, their information is not distributed and could be subject to government attacks/seizures (they are a visible registered business entities under the laws of a state)

Mitosys business model is that of building a decentralized autonomous corporation (featured in Bitcoin Magazine by Vitalik Buterin) and not of old concept of government sanctioned corporations. With the current recent technology, specially the one Satoshi enabled, we don't need the permission of governments to start a corporation.

Moreover, Gliph doesn not want to create its own cryptocurrency. Bitcoin's underlying asset, or the backing as to say, is the need for people to store financial information (debits and credits) between anony-pseudonymous parties and coins are the right to store that information in a decentralized indestructible database (the blockchain), created by solving crypto puzzles and/or relaying transactions.

Albeit all the opression and persecution going on in the world, I believe the need for decentralized/distributed encrypted and affordable communications is bigger than that of storing financial information off the government-sanctioned financial grid.

Because we have reached a point in history where people cannot afford to save, we live in a state of perpetual global financial crisis because governments force, induce and train people to use currency based on debt, which can be inflated at will by only one party, and is not a store of value.

And I believe Mitosys and its backing can act both as a much needed service stored in a form of cryptocoin, which is fungible, durable, divisible, portable and  a store of value.

Would be interested to getting this into the hands of Jon Matonis, EFF and other prominent individuals who share this vision, if you can help me out :)

I sent this to Jon, I don't know anyone at the EFF. Try approaching them via their regular channels.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Thank you for your kind help Ron! Appreciate it!

I would like to inform that Bitcoin Magazine has shown interest and we are in preliminary talks to get the word out.

Hopefully, if this project is plausible and has the potential to become very successful, others will also join it.
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Glad to hear ... I hope this will take off soon.
Together all these projects will bring about the singularity soon ... the rate of changes is accelerating :)

"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

    Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"

what news about this  ???

This sounds really interesting!

Everyone,

If this doesn't ring an alarm bell in your head, then I don't know what else will.

They make us buy cellphones and internet service to produce and harvest the same data that is used not only to restrict our freedoms but to get into our minds and know how we can pay even more for what they are selling.
And no, we don't get a penny on it.

Enter the age of Digital Slavery (whether willing or unwillingly doing so)

Since when is a device that quickly goes into record-fast obsolescence like a smartphone can be worth half an ounce of Gold?! 
(USD 600)

We are living in the Matrix. Now more than ever.

Take the red pill.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304682504579157780178992984

Web Giants Threaten End to Cookie Tracking
Balance of Power in Ad Industry at Stake as Google, Microsoft Seek to Control Web Tracking

"In the past month, Microsoft Corp. MSFT +0.75% , Google Inc. and Facebook Inc. FB -0.06% have said they are developing systems to plug into and control this river of data in ways that bypass the more than a thousand software companies that place cookies on websites.

The moves could radically shift the balance of power in the $120 billion global digital advertising industry—and have ad technology companies scrambling to figure out their next play.

The Silicon Valley trio, which produce browsers, email services and operating systems used by billions across many devices, are positioned to potentially learn far more about people's activities than cookies ever could. Today, a diverse ecosystem of companies places cookies on websites to track people through browsers; now the giants see an opportunity to get into tracking themselves."

Would I be correct to assume you are going to use concepts from the mini-blockchain project? Please be aware that I have a 28BTC bounty (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286536.0) for anyone who can provide a basic proof-of-concept client which uses a mini-blockchain and account tree (doesn't need all the extra messaging functionality).

Glad to see you involved bitfreak!

Did you review get a chance to review http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/12014/is-the-finite-blockchain-idea-secure  ?

Yah, if you scroll down you'll see I provided an answer which expands on Rosenfeld's answer.

Yeah, I remember now.
Well I didn't accept it at the time and it didn't get a lot of votes.
Perhaps it's time to kick up that discussion as well.
(I won't participate, too fricking busy)

Dear bitfreak!

Good to see you here and thank you for your interest.

Hopefully, this bounty will be collected soon by any bright mind(s) out there due to two new incentives:

1- Bitcoin has reached new all time highs
2- There is an actual concept for an application in which this tool can be used.

This won't be much of a problem provided that we join forces and spread the word to people that can solve this involved, plus generate interest in the idea, which will also drive skilled people to produce ideas, solutions and code.

Promotion of this concept is crucial for its implementation.

Best regards

Well Rosenfeld's answer was acceptable because it mentions how archive nodes can be used in times of emergency, but he didn't mention the most important point about new nodes refusing the join the network if they detect that a "secret chain attack" like that is happening, that is what really makes it difficult for the attack to succeed.

At this stage I'm quite satisfied with the defenses against such a secret chain attack. The only thing which really needs to be discussed in more detail is the exact structure and design of the account tree and how script can be replaced with a simpler type of transaction mechanism which only allows a limited set of hard-coded transaction types.

You're right, point 1 is obvious but I hadn't really thought about point 2 until I read this thread. The mini-blockchain scheme probably would be a great way to store encrypted messages in a decentralized fashion. Bitmessage also uses a type of dynamic blockchain doesn't it? So the difference between Bitmessage and this idea is that it will also function as a crypto-currency and not just a messaging service, which will enable more advanced messaging functionality like paid services?

Dear bitfreak!

Please read this and you will get a full picture of what this is all about, a draft on the concept, design and an implementation proposal for this system/cryptocurrency decentralized market of encrypted communications.

DRAFT FOR AN OPTIMAL DESIGN AND IMPLEMENTATION FOR A DECENTRALIZED/DISTRIBUTED ENCRYPTED DATA TRANSMISSION RIGHTS CRYPTOCURRENCY (EDC) AND DERIVED BUSINESS APPLICATIONS
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327186


This is correct.

Ok cool, it's sounds very similar to how I imagined it. One thing I want to mention though: you should link to my project wiki (http://bitfreak.info/mbc-wiki/) instead of the white paper because the white paper is very outdated compared to the wiki. I think this is a great idea though and I will keep my eye on this project. Send me a PM if you have any questions about the mini-blockchain proposal.

Dear bitfreak!

I shall edit the post to reflect that the most updated information of your concept is in the Wiki, and thank you very much for the generous proposal.

The main concern now maybe is not much about technical issues, but of human talent issues.

How do we get this to all of the "right" people, who can do something about it and get them interested in taking action?

Best regards

Watching

Created Trello Dashboard for Mitosys Development: Mitosys-Alpha

https://trello.com/b/jwYHyymU/mitosys-alpha

Currently we need help on polishing the Draft, identifying the necessary code that must be developed to implement this, set the proper bounties according to market and attracting the right developers (who can co-work and claim bounty together if they want to)

This board is OPEN for everyone to see however, all of you who want to have edit privileges please PM me with your email address so we can add you! - cc: bitfreak! -

All updates of the project will be both in the board and by editing the first post and putting the date of the update, so that new people that come and get to know about Mitosys, that will be the first thing that they see without having to read all posts.

Watching

Thanks Ron for heads up  :)

Well hopefully this Mitosys project will also get more people interested in the idea. I've done what I can by creating a bounty and advertising it on my website. I'm fairly busy with another project at the moment and with Christmas coming up I don't have too much time to spend on this stuff but I would like to see something get built.

I have been waiting for a realization of Mini-Blockchain scheme, following their two threads (which have been quiet for a while).
It will be great to see these two projects merge together for making a full functional new Crypto.. watching! :)

In order to get this idea rolling we need to focus on polishing that draft and turning it into a solid business plan.

Once we have that business plan solidly crafted we can start pricing EDC coins  (which will also act like shares with voting rights in the system), very much similarly like investment banks do when they do an IPO (Initial Public Offering)

That way, instead of offering BTC bounties we could offer EDC bounties.

Here's why: I believe there must be a pre-mined amount of EDC coins in the Account Tree (about 5%) which will be allocated for developing purposes BEFORE the IPO/Launch of Mitosys.
In order for this to work, we must be very open about this fact BEFORE the IPO and store/distribute these coins in a preset-time and fashion, in publicly known addresses.

This public information is useful for economic actors in the system (users/miners/shareholders) because they know that these coins will be added to the monetary offer (sold) in a preset fashion, and can be discounted in EDC prices, giving them more certainty.

If developers/contributors to Mitosys project want to cash in their EDC holdings quickly in order to support their lifestyle, they could tie a PGP key to their identity, and sell those contracts in a private "secondary market" between them and investors who want to buy those coins, while notifying Mitosys project organizers in order to assign the coins/ deliver the private key to that new owner.

This is very similar of what happens with huge IPOs like Facebook. Shareholders like Zuckerberg, Saverin and employees who got paid in equity for their effort, had a lock-in period in which they could not sell their stock in order not to turn around during the IPO and crash prices, this would be akin to a pump and dump scheme.

Steve Jobs didnt own more than 3% in Apple stock, he developed a corporation in order to gift it to the world and make it public, and earn his fortune in the process.

This is the importance of DACs (Decentralized Autonomous Corporations), they are self-regulating entities who do not need a regulator like the Securities and Exchange Commision, they are regulated by changes in the code that are effected via the acquisition of voting rights. No need for Securities and Exchange comission. Everything is transparent, public and out in the open, and this must be the spirit of Mitosys as well.

How will this Decentralized Corporate Governance take place? I do not know, but we can take some inspiration on Mastercoin/Bitshares.

I think that the less complicated that the corporations' status (founding code) is made, the more transparent and easy to understand it will be and it will drive attention to long term investors, whether big or small, into Mitosys.

I am also thinking about certain principles that should be rock-solid in the foundation of the system, very much like the Founding Fathers of America did with the Constitution, with very high amount of voting rights to reform it, in order to keep the mission, vision and values of Mitosys untouched and remain a useful corporation for all actors involved -users, miners and shareholders/investors-.

Feedback and contributions are very much welcome!

How about actually solving some of the real technical problems before running around soliciting money on the strength of seemingly nothing but a bunch of wild blue yonder pie in the sky ideas that if only you the marketing genius were provided enough money you'd solve all the problems of the world?

So far I have seen othing from you indicating you are even aware of any of the actual technical problems that all previous discussions of monetising bandwidth, transsmission, storage etc have stalled on.

But maybe you actually are aware of the problems and are deliberately avoiding mentioning them because if people know the thing could not be done they might not send you money?

I guess that is maybe what marketing genius is all about though, eh?

-MarkM-

A business plan should be introduced only after a whitepaper or a proof of concept has been worked out and reviewed.

Dear markm,

Regarding the funding aspect of the business the only part in where I talked about sending money to someone was to developers. I've never asked money for myself or for anything else than that.

We hope you can contribute information about how to profitably monetize bandwidth, transmission and storage of data, and its technical obstacles.

The only way of breaking through a stall/plateau is by getting the word out, inevitably, people will come up with solutions. Particularly if you tell them that it can't be done ;)


Dear bybitcoin,

I agree with you, a technical whitepaper must be produced before launching the business. From my part, I am giving everything that is in my possible means to implement this. There will be bright people who will be able to produce it.

Best regards

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Making this public per request of Ron Gross, Executive Director of Mastercoin

From: Zumbi
To: Ron Gross

I saw the DAC list and thank you very much for including Mitosys.

About a social networking DAC: I already specified it in my draft, its at the final page, related to the next step after a communications cryptocurrency, is a data storage cryptocurrency.

But what is the constraint today for a DAC social network? The vast amount of information handled is too much for every client to have a copy of the blockchain where social network user data will be stored.

Ive been thinking maybe if a statistical analysis could be run regarding a certain piece of information being stored only in X amount of client/servers, what would be the fallibility rate, regarding hardware, communications, energy and third party failures (government/robbers/others). Therefore the blockchain would turn into some kind of "shamir's sharing secret of blockchains" in which each client/server would not hold the whole blockchain but rather pieces of it, that when, connected to the network, it would be fused as one. If not, we would have to wait until affordable Quantum computing comes and processing/storage data becomes so potent that our needs for information transmission/storage and its costs would be dwarfed by the technology available to handle them.
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I don't know how to implement a social network DAC. We should brainstorm that.
Get some deep tech guys to do the analysis.
I don't know if the social network DAC is separate from Mitosis or not ... you might want to merge that.

Try and get some of Bitcoin's core developers interested in this proposal.
Post to the technical Bitcoin threads/forums/mailing lists.

Hi Ron,

Thank you for your quality input as usual.

This is not separate from Mitosys, but as a roadmap to developing decentralized encryption data transmission and sharing. However I think this is the next step after the EDC cryptocurrency is developed. Either way, it wouldn't hurt to get the developers neurons firing at this issue and get them introduced to EDC.
I think it would have more "entity", respect and views if you post it, but if you'd like me to do so, let me know.

Good news for Project Mitosys: Mobile Mining Technology just kicked off (ICOMINER)

November 1, 2013 
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/01/new-plugin-allows-developers-to-turn-ios-devices-into-bitcoin-mining-bots/ (http://"New Plugin Allows Developers to Turn iOS Devices Into Bitcoin Mining Bots")

Ron:

I have emailed main Bitcoin Devs (5) directly to their inboxes and the Bitcoin Devs Sourceforge mailing list. Lets see how that goes.

Regards

This is a really cool project and I think you can go either further.

genjix:

Please assist us. Let us help each other.

Looking forward to your reply.

Zumbi

Clicking the link doesn't work...copy/paste does though

Fixed:
New Plugin Allows Developers to Turn iOS Devices Into Bitcoin Mining Bots (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/01/new-plugin-allows-developers-to-turn-ios-devices-into-bitcoin-mining-bots/)