Bitcoin Forum

First of all, this is NOT a discussion about the unit in which Bitcoin should now be denominated in. That's been discussed to death.

What I'd like to know is if people are thinking "that's too expensive - I can't afford to buy in".

Traditionally, stocks can only be purchased in whole units.

Although Bitcoin isn't a stock, the perception is that it can only be bought in whole units.

Agree/Disagree?

I think most of the confusion is coming from those that have been programmed by the mainstream TV signals.  :o

Alot of people i know of who've seen it on the news believe it is a solid and cannot be split

Same

I've found a few newbies thinking it had to be whole for some reason; never thought this would be an issue.

I suspect it's because we're used to Bitcoin and thinking of it as a currency rather than a stock.

Would be interesting to hear from those that voted No.

I think you're right; it's also ingrained into our minds that we can't take a gold coin or a whole dollar and easily divide it into smaller parts (at least, especially not by tearing the dollar); perhaps the public isn't used to highly divisible money; a nickle's a nickle, a dime's a dime, but a bitcoin can be anything you want it to be, up to a hundred million places.

I answered no and IMO, it's too fold.  

1.  The general public does not care.  Bitcoin offers them no advantages over government fiat money and debit cards, so it's not viewed as a currency.
2.  It's viewed like a stock and it's really only purchased for speculation and thus, it's not about fractions, it's about how much one can afford to invest.  

i think people that know nothing about hit hear "coin" and think of that as the single unit. i've seen several people in the newbie forum that thought you could only buy in 1 BTC increments. i imagine BTC is fairly confusing to the new user....

At the moment I would say that this is my opinion on this. That and with all of the news about Silk Road and such, I doubt Bitcoin is viewed as a legitimate, legal currency by the general public, making them not want to buy it at all. I personally think that in a few years they will have caught on to Bitcoins, but as if they were stocks.

1) Naturally it only affects those wishing to buy. I feel it's an additional (imagined) barrier to entry.

2) This supposes they already understand the premise of this thread.

That's not the point of this thread. It's simply if the general public believes they can buy only whole Bitcoins, in which case it's a barrier to adoption.

I'm not sure if a lot of people have misread the question (or are adding an interpretation to it that doesn't exist) but the only relevant point is if you believe the public thinks Bitcoin must be bought in whole units i.e. anyone wanting to buy right now needs a minimum of $460.

Oh sorry, I mustn't have been reading properly. But yeah, mine is sort of the same as everyone elses. I expect that the general public only feels that they can buy it in full Bitcoins, but have no real interest to go into it further to find it is an actual currency.

I blame all those Casascius Coin stock photos accompanying the articles... or maybe it's just totally bankrupt imaginations after all ;D

Maybe exchanges should start showing prices both in BTC and mBTC side by side so new buyers (and the media?) get a clearer picture?

Right now on Bitstamp it just says "Bitcoin price: $437"

What if it said "1 Bitcoin: $437 - 1 mBitcoin: $0.437"

Or something similar.

No, they absolutely don't, and its funny you post this because I just got finished posting the same thing on the Bitcoin Foundation Forums.

I have already had several friends say they wish they could have gotten in earlier, but now bitcoin is too expensive...

Something needs to be done, quickly, or momentum will completely stop.

People think China is lucky because they got in when Bitcoin was affordable.

Not a lot of people have $460 to blow on one coin ....

I've been screaming for this to happen ever since I set my Bitcoin-Qt wallet to mBTC display, what, oh, a few days ago. ;D But I'm not the one in control of the exchanges, chart interfaces, etc.

Edit: Ignore this post - it was posted when I was reading something else and posted the opposite of what I meant.

What's really odd is that most people posting agree that the public feel you can only buy whole Bitcoins yet the poll suggests the opposite.

Does everyone who voted no not want to discuss?

????

The poll asks if people know they can buy in fractions.

Most say no ... people don't know they can buy in fractions.

Therefore.... they agree ... the public thinks they can only buy in whole Bitcoins.

The poll does not suggest the opposite.

I was going to use this thread as part 1 of three.

Poll 1: Does the public know they can buy fractions?
Poll 2: What should be the smaller denomination? (I know this has been done to death but it would be to see what should be adopted rather than the merits)
Thread 3: The public doesn't know/understand the divisibility of Bitcoin. Let's get exchanges denominated in units of Poll 2.

I edited it as soon as it was posted. You must have seen it before I managed to edit :D

Maybe im retarded, but what?

Right now it says:  "Question:    Does the general public know they can buy fractions of Bitcoin?"

Most say "No......................"

Therefore .... people think the public only knows about whole bitcoins.

What am I missing here?

if i go into a fruit and veg shop, i know i can buy a bunch of bananas joined together, or a single banana. but most people are used to buying bananas in bunches and pricing bananas in bunches.

so if i seen a bunch of banana's priced up as $470 i for one would think twice about buying the bunch, and then would either not bother to work out how many individual banana's were in my budget. or i would question, do i really need banana's in my life right now, before working out how much banana i can get for my budget

Then there is no need for any conversation at all.  Just post the poll, everybody answers yes or no and we all move along.  If you're not interested in opinions on root causes, then you're not really interested in solving barrier to adoption issues, in which case, you're just wasting everyones time with this thread, especially your own.

I just sent the suggestion to Bitstamp with a link to this thread as well. Worth a shot.

You've really not understood the reason for this thread.

The root cause is simple ignorance. It's not something you can change easily or without a massive budget for educating.

There's plenty of room for discussion - just not regarding things that have been rehashed over and over.

Also, this is a three part thread so I can't see how you'd know if this is a waste of time yet. However, if you're here to make yourself look smart or if you feel you're above it all then there's nothing I can do about that. Feel free to make yourself feel better.

Do people owning ten dollar bills look for things that cost exactly ten dollars, or do they know as a fact that they can purchase something cheaper and receive change. If they believe bitcoins work like the former, then it's ONLY purpose is to buy and sell them, having no other uses. There is no way in hell that they should be thinking otherwise if they know that things can be purchased with bitcoins, hence change, read less than a whole bitcoin, is returned if the purchase price is less than a full bitcoin.

I think if they reasoned it out then they'd come to the conclusion that they must be able to buy in fractions but I suspect they don't give it enough thought and just get put off.

Replace dollars by cents in your analogy and you get the picture.

I was just thinking about this today. I am pretty sure those brand new to Bitcoin, especially the ones calling into talk radio think Bitcoin is in denominations of 1 BTC and don't know 0.00001 is also BTC lol.

Of course not! The general public barely knows about the possibilities of crytpocurrency to begin with, it would take a shocker like Paypal accepting BTC / Cryptocurrency for US citizens to really get out of the cognitive dissonance the most are stuck in and realize its potentials in the near future, for sure within the next 100 years there most likely will be a one world primary currency (imo something anonymous / safe if utilized right like BTC / altcoins is groundbreaking)

Your question is about "General Public".
General Public  - NO. From the 10% that heard about bitcoin on the news , 99% forgot the second day.

If you asked about people who taught about buying bitcoin but never actually looked at the process I say....NO.

You have to remember that from hearing about something till actually thinking of buying and researching about it is a long process.
And humans tend to be lazy.

Does anyone here listen to the Clark Howard show on news radio? They had callers asking if bitcoin was legitimate. I think the general public and especially the not so connected people to innovation through technology are still not completely aware of bitcoin and what it is. I think we will see that soon and those deep "old money" pockets I believe will get into bitcoin. They definitely don't understand the fractions of a bitcoin at all let alone bitcoin itself.

I'm actually doing a consult with 3 local financial advisors and teaching them a course on bitcoin so they can talk to their network of financial advisors and in the end spread the word to their clients for a new opportunity to diversify their investment portfolio with a full seminar with the whole group.

Actually I think I am going to make a thread about this going into it further.

I always say to people just buy what you can afford, 100/500/1,000 dollars/pounds etc or whatever. Example: you will get 1.5/2.6/5.7btc.

Also, the higher the price of BTC the smaller percentage of one BTC is needed to spend, preserving your total coins.

True.  And if what I hear when I discuss BTC is true, then you need to add apathy.  At least in the US.

/Frank

Buy your Bitcoin wallet for only $9.95 and get a million satoshis for free!

So you're suggesting if the general public just KNEW they could buy fractional amounts, they would?  Delusional.  The root cause IS simple and it's that the general public doesn't care about Bitcoin.  Not in wholes, halves or fractions.  Why, because it's useless to them.  So yes, you can push your totally original thread  ::) of getting the exchanges to denominate Bitcoin in fractional amounts.  So glad you thought of that, as I've never seen a thread like that before.  And news flash, you can already buy fractions of Bitcoin's on every exchange I've ever used.  If you want to spend $100, you're likely to get a fractional amount, by default.  It's not rocket science.  You just type in how much you want to spend.  :o

I was absolutely shocked after I discovered that some well educated people working in IT thought bitcoin isn't devisible. I wasn't taking this psychological "coin" aspect seriously in the past, but now I am pissed every time I see the animated spinning coin on the TV screen.

It is just a matter of education. Knowledge will spread. People will learn. Just be patient. :D

Answer is: No

- >> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qsyp6/should_i_buy_one_bitcoin/cdg4yb9

I think there is another aspect of the perception of non-divisible bitcoins. While some people will be discouraged, others will buy one whole coin instead of their preferred amount. This could be one of the reasons why the price is constantly increasing.

I had a friend who bought whole units, didn't know you could buy fractions.  It's not common sense by far.  I remember people talking about Silk Road too thinking they had to buy in increments of 1 BTC.

the general public does not care about bitcoins all the general public cares about is the all mighty fiat fake dollar  ;)

The people ive talked with and who have given bitcoin more than 10 minutes of consideration get this. The othe people simply have no idea.

Nope, in general, people are quite ignorant of Bitcoin. Even the divisibility, which is a pretty simple aspect.

It's a common problem; we constantly have to inform people of the fact that bitcoins can come in fractions.

I've never suggested that if the general public knew you could buy fractions that they would. Just that it will stop those who want to buy but don't have $650 to buy any.

Who said this was an original thread. Taking only the first post into consideration you can see I'm aware that it's discussed to death already.

You say it's not rocket science yet I reckon a lot of the public are put off buying simply because of this belief.

Where is your aggressive attitude coming from? lol

The second part of this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=338144

Many of the people I've talked to only want a whole bitcoin even when they find out they could buy fractions of them. They'd rather try to save up $700 for a single coin than buy .01 btc.

This was a point I had to make to my parents that you don't have to purchase the entire coin.

But it is our job to educate those around us. You are confronting a fiat-oriented mind as that is all they have known. The concepts of Bitcoin's 8 decimal division is very foreign to accept, thinking of "1 Bitcoin" as a whole, unalterable unit, when really the denomination means nothing in a digital currency beyond a measure of 100 Million satoshi's. Plus there is a bias that decimals=small, as a decimal amount of 1 Dollar is a small amount, where in Bitcoin .1 BTC is actually a lot.

Shifting financial paradigms is never easy

I think we just need to start using average person-friendly shorthand names for smaller divisions.   "mBTC" and "uBTC" sound alien and clinical and even after they become familiar they remain are ungainly to use in casual conversation. "Micro", "Milli" and "Nano" sound overly techy and convey a sense of "minisculity" which won't feel right when they are used in trade for real-world things like taxicab rides and movie tickets.  I was thinking something like "mikeys" and "millies" for microBTC and milliBTC respectably, and "Nannies" for nanoBTC.  Yes that's my username so I might be biased, but this is how I bounced the terms off a few of my non-BTC-aware associates in conversation while explainng that Bitcoin can be denominated much more flexibly than dollars or euros, and phrases like "so you'd pay 9 or 10 mikeys for a sammich and chips, point your phone at a QR code and map, paid and on your way.." seemed to roll off better than trying to use a term like microBTC or "A few thousands of a Bitcoin".  If not those terms than something else, so we can talk about Bitcoin without sounding like geeks trying to spread a technology fetish around. 

I would love to see some kind of parity with or incorporation of
the word 'dollar' and its credibility halo effect,
but it might be too much to ask what with BTC / USD exchange rate
getting bitchslapped all over the place by FOREX and commodity traders
and (probably) North Korean operatives,
who only stop working on their bots long enough
to pinch themselves and make sure they are not dreaming this all up. 

also, lol. BTChslapped. 
sigh.

The problem isn't whether they know or not.

Even if they did know, I don't believe it would affect their decision to purchase coins.

Think about how one would feel about owning 1 millionth of an ounce of gold. Not worth much at all. They wouldn't be very happy with using those small amounts of gold either.

Mathematical trickery won't make the bitcoin price skyrocket, in fact people will see past the illusion and send the price crashing down to earth as they see your manipulative techniques. To assume people are just going to play dumb is a stupid theory.

Buying fractions doesn't help anyone. Anyone who wants to buy products because prices are already seeing fractional amounts quoted as prices. We can't magically turn to satoshis think everyone will begin to think like pennies. In fact when you believe there are so many coins around, it destroys the fact that the coins are actually rare.