Bitcoin Forum

What happened:
BitBet stole 10 BTC from me because my bet arrived after the statement had closed. They hide this ridiculous policy (http://bitbet.us/faq/#151) in their FAQ and then try to use it as justification for theft. When I brought this to the attention of the community, BitBet and its associates flooded the thread with insults and half truths.

They have run this con game for months now, and many others have been affected. As detailed in their shareholder reports: in March they stole 23 BTC (http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-march-2013-statement/), and in April they stole almost 26 BTC (http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-april-2013-statement/).

Scammers' Profile Links:
Mircea Popescu (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=37923)
MPOE-PR (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741)
kakobrekla (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=11998)
I'd also include any operators/shareholders of BitBet, until this is remedied. Message me if you have their information.

Scammers' Associates:
deadweasel (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=68283)
pankkake (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24670)
davout (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1929)
mike_c (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=139708)

Reference Links:
This thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.0;all) has all the details.
The bet in question (http://bitbet.us/bet/591/bitcoin-price-to-rise-above-750-usd/).
Another BitBet/kakobrekla scam (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192905.0).
Another user scammed by BitBet. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341470.0)
Another thread about Bitbet's shady practices. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252224.0)

Amount Scammed:
10 BTC from me
At least 48.5 BTC from others

Payment Method:
Bitcoin transferred from Bets of Bitcoin.

Proof of Payment:
Here is the transfer (https://blockchain.info/tx/2af75fb4e50a14bf247575bf426615d01f9d6db4d88dc0668d27c88259f68691).

This also happened to another user who attempted to place a bet on the same market which I think is worth linking: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341881.0

Only real difference is that it was a smaller (but not insignificant) amount.

If the retard hiding behind "snackman" only spent in thinking and learning a tenth of the time he spends making a total fool of himself...or at least understanding what he was doing afore he did it....

Why'd you edit your post to remove your mention that I didn't have the site operator in my list of scammers? Did the site operator ask you to? What is the site operator's bitcointalk username?

Read (http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2013#388682), fuckwit, read!

ROFLCOPTER!!!

Apparently I'm a scammer now. 

Snackman, I know you haven't liked anything I've said, I wouldn't if I were in your shoes. It hurts to hear, "you fucked up, stupid", but that's the case.  Hopefully you will learn to read the manual before sending $9,000 by way of the intertubez.  Learning in this fashion, by public humiliation, elicits the emotions you are feeling now.  Let me tell you, those are just emotions. The true story is, you fucked up, and now you're butt-hurt because we told you the truth without lube.

Your miserable failings:

1) Sending from BetsofBitcoin
2) Sending a bet in at closing time (what would happen was clear in the FAQ)
3) Sending a bet in at closing time for a bet of which THE OUTCOME WAS KNOWN in order to scrape winnings off legit bettors.  <-- this is true scamming the REASON THE POLICY WAS IMPLEMENTED!
4) Sending a bet it at closing time WITHOUT A FEE! (see #1)

This and the logs demonstrate that you don't understand that a transaction must be confirmed before it is accepted in business.
The actions demonstrate you put NO THOUGHT into what you were doing, you just started sending BTC to gambling sites without reading the rules or FAQ.
These final forum threads have proven that you can't even comprehend of your part in all this, much less take responsibility for it. 

How can you not take responsibility for these actions?

disclaimer: I have absolutely no money involved in bitbet.us in bets or stock.  I most certainly have never been paid by anyone for anything, certainly not forum posts (evidenced by... my forums posts.) I have won bets there in the past, because I read the FAQ. 

@deadweasel they did accept it. They have the coins right now. The normal thing to do would be a refund. But they are small time and make almost HALF their revenue ripping people off like this. That's how MP pays off the cult members and his fantastic PR who puts Second life dj on her cv.

They must be the only bookies in the world were the deposit itself is a gamble.

I'm not going to respond to these guys in this thread, as I've already debated them at length in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.0;all). They post like a broken record.

The normal thing to do is BUSINESS AS USUAL.  Which is what is happening. 

how is that scamming? if the sites accepts bets after the outcome is known, that's a logistical error, and not the fault of the user. it is completely plausible that somebody could mistakenly send bitcoins after a bet is closed. and bitbet's answer to this is "you fucked up, your loss, haha" ?

the only reason bitbet has a the audacity to enforce such a bullshit rule is because they clearly make a lot of money this way.


"you're screwed." really? judging from the rhetoric alone, bitbet doesn't give a single shit about their customers.

completely disingenuous. i reiterate, everyone over at bitbet.us can go get fucked.

As an actual dealer of S.BBET shares, I feel unjustly excluded!!!

I hereby request prompt inclusion in the list , otherwise this complaint will be submitted to Rota.

Honestly, someone tried to bet and failed. We both agree on that. He could say he sent his bet before it closed. They could say they didn't receive it on time. I doubt anyone would argue with that.

The issue is the money should've been refunded. A real business, even one totally based on bitcoin, would do that. But not bitbet. Almost 50% of their income comes from this. They're not a bookie they are a con.

That's all there is to it.

A real business with a real pr not some failed second life dj would return the bitcoin because it would build their reputation. However this fly by night organization are purely built on trying to trick people out of coin.

It's sad that they could actually build a business without this rip off because I kinda like the idea of bitbet but they'd rather do shit like this.

They are bottom feeders.

That's fine, but it also shows you have not a fucking clue what disingenuous means. What you quote is a paragon of ingenuity.

Give credit where credit's due, you might be taken seriously sometime.

really?


i think you fall directly under "calculating"

As long as what happened is outlined in the FAQ, I have no problem with it.  You can't account for the stupidity, laziness, derpiness of all your customers, especially in business, or you go broke.  That's why the FAQ is created.  Maybe it should be called "Game Rulez" so they will be read by the .001% who fail to do so.

The whole "we take it if it's a closed bet" is a harsh fix to shitty problem: late bettors who would make the site nearly untenable if they were not discouraged.   Is there a better way to do that?  Probably.  Do I know what is?  Fuck no, I'm so dumb I had to read the FAQ to use bitbet.us.

I think people should read the rules before wagering $9,000.  I also think gambling sites should be allowed to set any rules they want.  You are not forced to GAMBLE there.    

can you explain how exactly it would make the site nearly untenable?


really? you would be OK with rules that blatantly exploit users? you think it's OK for users to be held accountable for the webmaster's shitty code?

we're not in a court of law, people aren't forced to use the service, bitcoin isn't technically currency, blah blah blah. that's not even the real issue here.

this issue here is that bitbet.us are just plain assholes. they wont think twice about robbing you over some bullshit technicality. the apparent PR guy doesn't have a professional nor moral bone in his body.

i don't know that he even has bones. bones have integrity. he's a human jellyfish as far as i'm concerned.

open offer to bitbet.us to collectively choke and die, you slimy fucks

Ever been to a casino?  The house is blatantly exploiting the customers.  There are games where you can lose your whole wad at once.  It is explained in the rules.  Some customers play those games, some don't.

That's business.

that was the worst analogy i've ever read. here's a better one.

you go to a table, and place a bet.

you hand over your chips. only then do they let you know that the table isn't accepting anymore bets. however, they are going to keep your bet because it's a rule. there's no good logic behind the rule, only that it's a rule. THAT is exploitation.

No. You initiate the bet before you know the rules, your bad.  

No one with a brain in their head plays a game they don't know the rules to.  But you certainly have that option (not reading the faq), should you so choose.  Freedom.

That's not a very accurate analogy either. A better analogy would be that someone went up to the table, said they were placing a bet and that the money was on the way, but no way to guarantee it. Money didn't arrive until the deadline for placing bets had passed.

It's not very nice to keep it, but they did say they would up front. And I don't think anyone ever accused MP of being nice.

Mr. P himself discusses OP's predicament and the fundamental misunderstandings therein over at Trilema (http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-as-replacement-for-the-electoral-system/), ftr.

Added another scammed community member's thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341470.0) to the first post.

I'm still curious why you have several people listed as scammers, when all they have done is disagree with you...  I have nothing to do with bitbet, I just want business to be free, just like the individual.

That's pretty, scammy snackman.

See:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341470.msg3709664#msg3709664

Your agreement with the conduct of MPOE-PR and other individuals involved (and your lengthy association with them in #bitcoin-assets) hints that you will conduct yourself similarly in business dealings, so your inclusion is warranted.

Businesses and individuals will always be subject to the opinions of the community. In other news, here's another thread about Bitbet's shady practices. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252224.0)

If some more respectable community members weigh in on deadweasel's behalf and/or believe that my list is unfair, I'll be happy to change it.

Just to be sure, you've never transacted with me yet you call me scammer.... 

...because I am in agreement that business should be forthright yet free to do business as they please.

In fact, you would need a transaction with me to list me in the first place.

Snackman, I find it hilarious that these losers who claim to have no association with BitBet insist on defending their unethical practices and in the process keep this thread at the top of the scams forum, making it visible to all and hopefully preventing others from lining their pockets with `shareholder earnings`. Keep it up, guys.  :)

No.  On second thought, leave my name there.   

Anything you can do to separate me from the ignorant prattle I will graciously accept.

With any MP backed venture, you can expect to get exactly what they say you will get, no more, no less. While the outcome is arguably unfair, it is exactly what you would expect them do.

Quoth MP "Whoa, they got my number! Unreal."

It is COMPLETELY unfair to judge one person on the actions of another without a definitive connection. Whether or not you feel bitbet, MiPo, MPOE-PR, or anyone else is a scammer or cheat, has no relation to anyone else.

I don't have a side to take with bitbet, but i have chatted quite frequently with MiPo, pankkake, and a few others posting on this thread in #bitcoin-analysis and have found them to be incredibly adept and quite humorous at times. Does that mean you don't trust me as well? The logic just isn't there man, you can't justify it.

If my opinion matters to you, there it is.

EDIT: Meant MiPo, not MaPo.

Is this more acceptable?

Like i said, definitive proof is fine, guilty by association is not. If you feel you have the proof to backup such claims, then you have nothing to worry about.

No.  I refuse that demotion.  Please leave me on the scammers list. 

O.o

Seems deadweasel got scammed off a list?

They have done many other shady things before, you may want to look for other scam threads for them and link them

FTFY, derpy. Who knows, maybe you're part of Internet lore now, you and your shitty Bitcoin Sports Betting play-or-invest crap. Good luck.

Snackman needs a snack....  Hopefully, it's a solid kick in the ass! (arse for non US folks )

Why all the accusations?  Are people just slinging BTC around without a care in the world? 

I read the thread, but Thanksgiving booze is cluttering my brain. 

Please don't hate on me.  :-)

I've been busy setting up my t-shirt website, so I haven't been able to work on this for a bit, but I haven't forgotten.