Bitcoin Forum

As you might know already, Chinese and French banks are no longer supporting any transactions that involve bitcoins. Therefore, all chinese traders are doing a massive BTC dump.

I just sold all my BTC (made a loss but with this crash, its better to get out sooner than later)

Sources:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/currencies/china-bans-banks-from-bitcoin-transactions-20131206-2yugy.html
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-12-05/news/44808398_1_pseudonym-satoshi-nakamoto-bitcoin-trading-platform-chinese-banks
http://business.time.com/2013/12/05/bitcoin-plummets-after-china-bans-it-from-banks/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25233224
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/05/china-bitcoin-idUSL4N0JK1KZ20131205
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/12/bitcoin-value-dives-after-china-banks-ban-2013125141919464366.html

Happy you managed to save yourself from serious losses.

But BTC will only go up in the long term. It has happened before, and it'll happen again.

Also, I really don't think it'll go back to $100.

Everything is possible when there's a global panic, and press report with negative news.

Well I am 150% sure that this will be the biggest dump/crash in the history of BTC.

It is definitely going below $200 this time.

In how many hours do you speculate the $200 level to come.

Why you care what he guess or speculate? He don't know anything more then you, he do just one of the things which a stockmarket player never should do: get afraid and fall in panic.

First Crash - 32$ to 2$  - mt.gox numbers....1/16th value
Second Crash - 260$ - 54$ - mt.gox + btc24 numbers....1/5th value
Third Crash - 960$ - approximately 650$.... not fixed yet...just 1/3rd value.....the crash percentages is getting lesser....which is better

That is called re-distribution of wealth. If you thought bitcoin was just a way to make money, you are mistaken....I have survived all three crashes and I think, I will still be around for more. There will be many more bubbles before it gets into mass adoption. Use crashes  to increase your bitcoin holdings.

cheers and have fun. The present crash is nothing compared to the FIRST CRASH. also never invest more than you can lose.

have a good day...get used to it........

also regarding china, I am happy, bitcoin scares them. They have crazy capital controls...and bitcoin really proves its disruptive nature there.

Agreed with you on this, you make a good  point on redistribution of wealth and  the other  bubble will happen  once indian gets a  fully functional exchange. and then may be the africian union. who know with bitcoin the skys the limit.

+1 Rep

this forum need really a reputation button.

Can not agree more !!!

Regards

When are we resuming the trades, buysellbitco.in?

Yes, it's possible that it goes down to $0. That does not make it likely. I've been following bitcoin through every bubble and crash. It may go down to $100, it's just unlikely that it will because there will be thousands of people waiting to buy at that price.

buysellbitco.in should keep his shutters closed till the prices get back up.

He has supported the India community all the way from US $8 until now.

Hurting his business can only hurt our community more.

Nobody wants to shut down because of a massive loss.

All being said, there needs to be a fluid exchange where people themselves can take their risks and the business itself does not take a beating, but that is another business model.

Thats a day trader decision.

+1   true

And what about someone that has waited weeks to buy some coins in between a crash from buysellbitco.in? Where do they go now

Few weeks ago, prices were at 100$ 'ish. Did you start waiting after that? or before?

However, I do feel your pain. But this is a market force that cannot be subdued.

You can try to purchase from americandesi as well who has direct access to exchanges, but I do not think that even he would want to trade in this volatility.

I came in to Bitcoin scene on Nov 6 when it was around ~250. Wanted to atleast study the market for a week before getting in with fiat, but it doubled by then.

Buysellbitco.in many times the stock is out and  when you guys have stock it will resume the business when the prices become stable.

Firstly, few users may like to trade in the volatility, so when having stock why not you buy/sell them.

Secondly, there is no guarantee of prices to be stable as it may reach to $100 or again back to $1000 in few hours. So why not let people who wants to trade can use your services?

Uff, thats a bad one mate. Hope that you do get your hands on some Bitcoin.

But TBH, I was the one who pinged buysellbitco.in this morning and asked him to shut shop as this can hurt our community more than an individual trader.

If you are keen on capitalizing on a crash, get yourself registered, etc on the international exchanges where fluid trading and large volume is allowed.

Is it always about what the users like? Or is there a place where the business needs to protect interests as well?

Just askin!

Bad news THIS is BAD news. People know about the DONT panic mantra so WHY THIS ?? WHY panic now ?? why dump ur coins ? the more you dump the more it crashes..

Are you selling coins now? Loads of demand.

Well even if many users want to buy they can't since the site is not allowing them to buy at this moment. So automatically when people reads that the leading site itself is fearful as they think it may crash further so dont want to sell at this point, users get more feared and want to sell their bitcoins at whatever rates they are getting. This is actually creating more fear among us.

I m selling NOT my stock coins, I learned that from my last crash.
But If anyone wants coions let them talk to me & i ll explain the rates.
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You can tell by my grammar and spelling errors that I m a bit shaken right now.

It shouldn't create fear.

Anyone who has been around Bitcoin long enough has seen these crashes and climbs more times than you can imagine.

What China has done is to make Bitcoin even more valuable. By disconnecting banks, people will figure out new ways to trade Bitcoins and since there is no easy way of money transfer, this will directly impact the price of Bitcoin.

This of course, is a theory.

I asked you that question to prove to the thread that even with your margins, even you will not sell at this moment.

Thanks for feeding it :)

A simple eye wink would have sufficed.
The point is not to sell when the prices are low instead use whatever loose cash you got to BUY coins. That is the only way to protect everyone.

Well, see I am failing to understand the simple logic of why not site should be up.

If the site has coins, let users who want to trade since many have being waiting like me to purchase at some point since its only few extra if people have invests in this as their is chance to loose the money as well. And if again it goes back to 50000 INR + and site start operating it, people like me again will be back seated and will wait for the price to fall as we could not have that risk appetite which others may have.

Lets say you are a SITE.
You buy coins to curb your user's demands.
You invest your own money & profit money into increasing your stocks.
And suddenly this happens. NOW you run the risk of bankruptcy if you dont cash out soon enough. BUT if you do, you will add further to the crash.
So what would you do ?

We will resume as soon as market shows a bit stability. There is no way we can setup fair buy or sell price if market is swing 100+$ ( over 13% in less than 5 minutes )

We need a stable market to get fair price references. We are not an exchange where you deal with other traders. When you do any buy or sell on buysellbitco.in you will be buying or selling from us and we can not open again until market is a bit stable.

Regards

I do not understand this. If you want to day trade at this scale, you should be connected to every international 'fluid' exchange.

What would you have done if Bitcoin kept going up and hit 100K instead?

If you have some insider information on how you were sooo sure of this crash, it would help us a lot.

Let's assume it gets stable at 300-400, will you resume trading then?

A liquid Indian exchange is the need of the hour, I believe there is a market for it in India. What surprises me is no one has set one up yet.

Vanilla flavored buying and selling cannot be regulated, but in the event of customers matching their own orders, etc, Extensive regulatory permissions are needed in India.

Also, there is no 100% secure solution as yet. So, it will have to be an Enterprise effort, probably Buttercoin?

Buysellbitco.in has all the potential to turn into one, maybe an external sponsor would be needed for that.

How much % of the coins you buy form others? As majority of the coins which users sell to the site, the site sells to the others users who want to buy form you. In return you are already charging the fees and transaction fees from both buyer and seller of the users. Also, as new users enters you will have more users who will purchase from you and at a point will be selling to you. So again you have the fees from them too. But if it crosses at certain point few may restrict them to enter in this market, which in turn means you lost few users (buy/sell transaction from them)

Lobbying and more public acceptance is what we need.

Will do a quick guide today for my blog on how Indian merchants can start accepting Bitcoin at their stores.

Well large players are connected to international trade, small users who wait for some decent price which differs from users to users and thier risk apetitile level.
This is my personal say, I am not arguing with you as you guys are in this field from very long and understand it better, but just some thing which users may think, i put forwarded this opinion as there would certainly be users like me who were waiting and get some coins at some pre determinded rate which they think has come.

And also if I was sure then I would not buy at this time too as still it may go down by 10 % who knows.

Agreed.
BUT what if you were to - in your own safeguard - convert all the coins your got from sellers in your site into CASH ? JUST to avoid this kind of crash and volatility of the market ?
Again, The coins that the SITE acquires from the users are paid by the site upfront at the current rate NOW if the crash swing is over $500 in one night then how do you think will the site be able to support itself. Face it, its not a donation camp but a business and a Business aint a Business if there aint no profit.
Besides, ask the owners of ANY EXCHANGE even in their best days the Coins they get from buying from the customer are never enough to cover the order demand.


*JUST to inform you guys, the coins are rising now. BTC at $700

Do these regulations apply to bitcoin as well? India hasn't banned/regulated any kind of bitcoin transactions yet.
Buttercoin seems to be an interesting project, hope it reaches India.

I think this is just a bull trap, i.e the movement from 650-700

Well the issue is when you are making an exchange, if you are all serious, have you though about
1. Consumer protection. What will happen if one day you and other customers who have deposited Crores in our bank account to do trading and bank will close or block our accounts due to a regulation notice such as China one. What will happen to our customers money ? In current business model we take all the risks. We never store customer funds on our servers or bank accounts.
2. What will happen if one day we actually lose all your bitcoins ( Not INR ), how you will protect yourselves.
3. Read more about NSEL fiasco.

While I 100% agree and working hard on getting liquid trading exchange in India,it is not advisable to launch it without having consumer protection and Regulation framework cleared.

We need exchange but we do not need fraud case.

As Benosn suggested, Lobbying, educating decision makers, public acceptance is what we need. And trust us, we are all working hard on that.

Regards

Buttercoin has reached India. Their first focus is on India and Sunny Ray is their Director of BD.

Yes agreed to you on few points, but I doubt a bitcoin optimist like buysellbitco.in would be cashing at this point when they know it has much better potential then 1000$ or so. Also if few users sell at this point, there are other users who are ready to buy as well. So again you have the demand too so aint you losing on one side itself as users are not selling only, few others are buying too. Had it being one side case like every one is just selling and no one is buying tends to put your point absolutely. correct

I think most users are confusing buysellbitco.in with other large exchanges like, Gox, Coinbase, BTCe etc. BSB operate sort of like a single party who buy/sell bitcoin from the community. They have a variable transaction limit and their business greatly depends on the market stability. There are other individuals who do the same business here, but they do without a store front. None of them will sell BTC during a crash, because they have gained their share of experience surviving these. So it is understandable why BSB pull down the curtains during a crash.

Even I wish to put some money on BTC during this crash, but for that I should go to an international exchange where I can make instant buy/sell decisions.

You look very enthusiastic, are you looking to buy or just advocating for the users that are looking to buy ?

Hey Jinson, well then how would you then help new users understand this when the prices are low everyone would like to buy. But as you said no body would like to sell during crash, so what will new users think that only when the price reaches at certain level they will be selling and at that time we will not be able to buy. So what should be the solution as every time during the crash it will not be willing to sell as per the previous experience. So should all time at high rates only it should be purchased. just trying to understand this.

Also, say tomorrow it goes down to 300-400 and for 2 weeks it stays at that level then in that case what will be scenario?

Haha, nice one  ;). Well nowdays hardly anyone advocates on behalf of others, as no one have time since priorities have changed. Want to buy certainly but if it crosses at a certain level again I am back to square one. So again just have to wait and watch itself. Nothing else.

Read couple of times this about international exchanges in previous posts.

Can somebody explain how to use such services, and provide the guidance  regarding the formalities and legalities involved in it.

See ? Everyone who wants to cash in, wants BTC to hit the lowest FLOOR it can during the crash and hence this.

This should be told to users who hold multiples BTC and have sold in bulk. For users who hardly have in fractions does not apply to them. :P

legendster, stop leaving nested quotes throughout the thread. :)

Personally, I want it to crash as low as possible to get into it since I've seen it go from 230 to 1200 in a month. BUT BTC for me is more than just another means to cash on, I believe in its ideology of decentralization and one world currency and not to forget the instant global transactions.
It is politically correct to me, the idea of bitcoin.

Edit: let's not forget to celebrate the fact more and more Indians are wanting BTC (no matter if they want to cash in or just for the feel of it) which in long run is going to shoot the price.

Hi Buddy,
This is clearly a matter of individual choice. As we speak the market very volatile. It can go up or down $100 or more within minutes. People who bought the coins for higher price might panic and sell to cut their losses. Such intense volatility does not happen often. But when it settles, no matter if it settles at $400 or $1500, normal trade resume. This has happened before. But I believe this crash will be a short lived one.

Let me try to explain :

The issue is wild volatility. There is no way for us to setup a base price when market is showing such fluctuations. We will open up again once market is stable. What will happen if we buy from seller at 40k and next minute it is 35k. We give you locked in rates. You booked order and you have chance to decide if you want to honor the order or not for 1 hour. We do not get this chance. You sent the money and we will send you bitcoins at quoted rate, simple. Yep, we know we have created this rules and we are supposed to follow them and we are following them.

But you know why we give locked in rates, we want more and more users to buy bitcoins. With locked in rates they get confidence to invest in.  We even put buying limits for users when there is huge demand of bitcoins. We can simply sell it to one whale and cash in our fees and profits. But we want more and more users to get bitcoins and thats why those limits we apply.

On top of it we also answer calls and mails from users very politely when they almost slang us saying what is these ridiculous limits that I can buy only 20k worth of coins. Well, because of these limits only you are able to buy even 20k else some whale would have bought all of this.

We know such exponential growth can not be sustained and market will crash. We also know that the day when there is blood bath our business model can not sustain it. But we know, once this will pass we will see greens again and it will settle down :)

We do not say that we will open up again when prices are 70k. All we need is stable market where our algorithm can setup a fair base price.

Regards

Just helps keep track thats all, too many people talking here.

If RBI releases an antagonistic circular similar to Chinese Bank, what would be its impact or would there be any impact at all in the Indian BTC scenario? What do the Bitcoin veterans think about that?

I ve seen it come from the $39 days. Only got ion when it crossed $150

What China has said is good for us. They do not see BTC as a currency and see it as a commodity, that is actually awesome, buying and selling goods for BTC is OK with them, but exchanging it for normal currencies requires money transmitter licences.....that is actually good...will help BTC in achieving its actual dream...

check this out...
http://www.btcglobe.com/tool/calculate-future

have fun with the sliders

All it would do is increase the awareness of Bitcoin in India.

Agreed. The number of nodes in India is negligible so far.

This indeed is a very good time to buy!!  ;D

If somebody can help on this.

A newly established currency, especially not intervened by central banks, will fluctuate wildly on the exchanges, but that's the nature of bitcoin

If it indeed fall back to $100, I will buy a lot

Bitcoin is a super secret project of the U.S. and that have understood in time, China, France, Russia.
This project serves to rob people from other countries.

Russia has never had any bitcoin exchange because he knew about that. BTC-e not Russian exchange its Europe,


More and more countries this will understand, and project designed ​​by U. S. crashes.

surely that's why Germany recognized BTC as a legal tender
and if it is how you say it is... buy some more! it will raise in value  ;)

So it must be a large scale conspiracy. Like they covered up the aliens landing in New York.

What does conversion to USD have to do with Bitcoin?????

It is not going down to a $100 most it may go down to is about $400.

French banks are irrelevant in the latest crash. Also the chinese seems to be those those less panicking from the situation.

 o shit!  illuminate pyramid stuff

Noooooo!

Baidu Stops Accepting Bitcoins After China Ban.  :'(

Yes, Baidu and Chinese telecom stop accept bitcoin !!!

http://www.coindesk.com/baidu-stops-bitcoin-price-slumps-again/

U.S give most BTC to China and takes most real money of the Chinese people. Give nothing for real money !!!
It is tactical general impoverishment of China.

http://fiatleak.com/

I think the Butcoin falls in the nett 3 month to 400 Dollar and and then We have the next Bubble

Butcoin? If the price falling down within 4 month it's not called a bubble. Please mate, don't talk about things, which you don't understand.

We'll see $100 again, but not now. For now, Bitcoin is solid and should be stable over 500$. The problem will be, when other better coin arrives. But for the next 2-3 years I see not a real competitor. A new coin will have to mature until it succeeds, build a network, etc.

It is happening guys. China has stopped all deposits to btcchina.

Chinese support is gone.

Ha, this is going to affect even the tourism industry during the season.

at what rate do you guys expect btc to go? and do you think will it stabilize or again shoot up to 800 usd?

it  will go  down to 400 . and then stabilize to 500 for the next 6 months.

It's not a short term investment, you know..
I had spoken to Johann Gevers from Monetas and he provided me with a very convincing number between 5-600K USD

I kinda think it has higher potential.

its time for those who are planning to invest in btc.
just bought few coins :)
and whats wrong with ltc? why is even ltc falling?

Not All deposits they stopped accepting deposits in Chinese yuan.

"Bitcoin deposits, bitcoin withdrawals and yuan withdrawals will not be affected,. The exchange said it "will try to provide another method for deposits"

ltc is pegged to btc, hence the fall, but it should retain proportions against Bitcoin.

Ha, under 500.. This bites..

yup and think now i am  gona  start buying big. heheheh.  lost  alot in the  last rise. going to  make a  killing in this  fall.

Pls read the full article It's a very good read
http://www.businessinsider.com/williams-bitcoin-meltdown-10-2013-12?IR=T

Any views on the article?

Fear mongering total FUD, mostly financed by bankers to write this  article. Money talks.

Dont  believe  every thing they say. These people  are  from the conformist government  obeying  sheep's  will believe  what ever  any institute tells them to believe in  

Nice article, but a bunch of fud.
1 thing to always remember: $300 was the high mark projected for 2013. $500 is still 66.6%  higher than that.

In my opinion, BTC will settle at 350$ to 400$ and will be stable for quite sometime.

One way to gain more stability and improve the price of each Bitcoin would be to somehow include every cash transaction as well onto the market makers.

Its tough, but it has to start with the mobile wallet exchanges.

LTC also falling as related to BTC. So in terms is it likely that all the alternate coins generally will fall if BTC falls greatly.

LTC was all china rise .... thats why the fall too i suppose ... remember the time LTC/BTC ratio was 0.05  :'(