Bitcoin Forum

The Obvious Manipulation and the idiots with their technical analysis getting excited over nothing

It is so obvious that some kind of manipulation is choking the potential price increases of all cryptos. So what is the point of all youtube vids, reddit threads, telegram announcements about new developments. Price will hardly increase anymore.

Those bastards have done it and are weakening the potential gains investors could have.

i think also this way, was telling that, but this is how societys runs

This is a part of the game my friend. FUD, FOMO...video explaining why the market will crash, etc.. It works on the traditional market. We are all fishies, and the gain it's for big wallet.. In my opinion, it could be great if we could get some very good channel of information independent without some pseudo analyst of bullshit spraying FUD

And it always seem to be working for just one reason because we have naive people investing in the various cryptocurrencies and when it comes to FUD, it works with every investments and that includes the stock markets and a whole lot of other investments.

If people can do something then they will do something. Anyone complaining about 'manipulation' would be manipulating the shit out of things for their own benefit if they had the opportunity themselves.

They're not going to leave profits on the table so nobodies can benefit instead. This is how the entire planet works. It's just more brazen in the crypto space as no laws apply and there are enough morons to carry on feeding them.

If you sit tight long enough then the current generation of whales get eaten by bigger ones down the line and another 0 is added to the end of the price. If you don't have the patience then the door's right there.

This has always been affecting newbies but elites in this business understands each and every move. After the whole FUD, everything will settle back to normal then normal ratio begins.

technical analysis??

no TA stands for TREND analysis.. or my preference trend anals
they dont actually look beyong historic prices to explain real world events that cause certain things. they just look at prices in the past.

take the 2013 price surge. the actual reason this happened was that in october 2013 ASICS came onto the public consumer market and so with everyone buying asics. mining became more expensive(higher difficulty). and with pools not selling coins below cost it caused a price surge..
then in early 2014 MTGOX knocked the price down again..

but TA's do not look into these details. they just see that over a winter peried price jumped then crashed in the new year.. soo years later it will happen again..
.. um no.. there has not been another mining invention release. there has not been a major exchange disaster so the event should not have occured.

but because the trend anals screamed it should happen. the sheep blindly speculated it and it was the sheep that caused it. now because the sheep caused it. those sheep now treat the anals as prophecy preachers and will follow anything they say.

its like the blind leading the blind to cause more people to be blind purely to have more blind leading the blind

so lets be a trend anal
"tomorrow will be a disaster. many people will die you will live if you jump off a bridge"

loads of people jump off a bridge.. many died coz of it.. those who survive will thank me for telling them to jump off a bridge and will now follow my next near death request
.. so who wants to jump off a cliff if i told them to

Yes, I forgot to mention the newbies. This is a big factor. I know 50% of people at work lost a lot of money, when they tried to speculate in January at the high of the market. They lost 70% in value of their portfolio. Ouch

many idiots are speculating about bitcoin, but I think it is impossible if they are from bitcoin enthusiastic members. their action makes the bitcoin fall again when bitcoin will go up.

and you're wrong if you think all videos on youtube, reddit and others are useless.
all videos on youtube, reddit and all good information serve to stabilize bitcoin and crypto market conditions, so bitcoin does not fall to the lowest place.

Yes the pump groups are just making you as their tools to gain profit,
They would tell you that this coin would be pump so buy it then of course you believe in them so you would buy it then you are the reason why it is pumping up and while the coin is pumping they are selling their coin,
It is just like a pyramid scheme the last one to invest would be the victim.

There has been lots of manipulation im seeing even from the start. The whales for one. We know they own huge amount of bitcoin and anytime they pulla all that out, will lower the price of bitcoin. Fud will only affect bitcoin if people holding bitcoin will believe these so called news. We all know haters will always make something up just to put bitcoin down. But really, its all upto us. Weak hands sell out of panic. These are the people who don't belong in the crypto world. Because they bring down the price.

all?
there is bitcoin which is staying stable more or less (with bitcoin standard) and then there are altcoins which are still getting pumped and dumped. for instance in the past 24 hours a handful of them got pumped (eg. Dentacoin, RabbitCoin, Slothcoin, Jesus Coin,...) yesterday there was another set of them getting pumped. 2 days ago another different set and so on.
what is happening is that bitcoin is in an accumulation phase so the money is pumping altcoins to increase itself then come back to bitcoin when it starts its ascend.

manipulation? there is always manipulation as i said the pump and dump is happening in altcoins.

As long as the whales exists on the trade then we will have a hard time to increase bitcoins value since they will just dump their coins and that creates a huge resistance. But that is a normal trait of the human being since if we are the whales I believe that we will be doing the same. So let us just go with the flow and make our way into the top so that we can have  a say in the market.

Because of these whales and other pro investors it is very hard to predict this market, that is also why in my view Technical Analysis can’t work, you cannot predict when a whale will dump a significant amount let alone which coin. All you can do is study what goes on behind the scenes and try connecting the dots. It is also very hard to trade unless you know exactly what you do, tight stop losses and so on. All this affects you only if you think short ot mid term. What works best for me is to pick a few coins you are really confident about and focus long term for all these reasons.

Well its part of everybody's strategy and even if we like it or not this is market and everyone has a right to do what he wanted
And besides market grows because of this,you may not knew it before but this is what it is since then

Even how hard for coins to grow,atleast theres a possibilities so the only thing to do is wait and keep patience

It is not obvious to me. Can you please show me information that clearly and undeniably indicates manipulation?

Manipulation was always a part of mainstream stock market even after heavy regulation by the watchdogs. So it is no surprise that manipulation will take place in crypto market as well where there is no regulator of the market. So big tank sharks with deep pockets, will use the market on their favor, that's an open secret. However, I am failed to understand one thing. I will appreciate if any knowledgeable person can help me understand this.

Lets assume I have 10,000 of bitcoins with me and I am considered a shark or whale whatever you like to call it. Why would I manipulate the market to go down? What's profit I can get out of it? If I have a high exposure in bitcoin, I would always want the market to go up because my net worth will be increasing along with that. The price decrease will not be helping me in any way. That's the basic understanding I have. Can anyone please clarify?

trend anals look at a chart and draw pretty triangles of suggestion. bots use the same pretty triangles. thus bots move because of pretty triangles and cause the result of what the pretty triangles are suggesting.

EG today you were not going to eat pizza.. but last week you ate pizza, and the month before that you ate pizza. so i suggest today maybe you should eat pizza..
i bet your now thinking about eating pizza

the problem is those pretty triangles are not based on current data/situations/events. trend anals are about looking at the past and causing the past to repeat itself without understanding why the past event occured in the first place.

EG october 2013 jump occured due to ASICS hitting the market. january 2014 happened due to MTGox.
this year there has not been a asic or mtgox event and thus there would not be a repeat of 2013-14...
yet trend anals create a repeat of 2013-14 simply because of the power of sugestion that a price movement should happen because a price movement did happen.

with bots set to look at only one piece of data (a pizza menu) all it can see is that one piece of data. and if many bots are all doing the same thing. suddenly a pizza restaurant will see an increase of pizza orders. this is how advertising works. businesses see an increase in sales if they use suggestive advertising to viewers.

hint..
there is no logical reason for there to be a 2 year stagnation for bitcoin prices. there is no real world event predictor of tomorrow. but trend anals wil draw prtty triangles to suggest based on the 2014-16 data that we are going to have a 2 year stagnation from 2018-2020. and so bots will se these pretty triangles and only trade based on a narrow window of percieved stagnation. thus themselves cause the stagnation.

then in 2020.. the bots and users will reinforce the notion that trend anals are the oracles of future because of the repeat and thus starts the epic sheep follow cycle of blinding causing a future based on the past limited data.

EG you are going to start eating pizza more often. not because your kitchen is empty of other real foods. but because have been suggested to that pizza should become part of a regular routine based on the past which you infact caused by listening into the power of suggestive advertising.
now cometh the wednesday routine of "pizza night"

i blame you and every other newcomer who filled the pockets of these whales when you were so happy during the pumps and were buying all these useless shitcoins and investing in all the useless ICOs.
that was when you were making the whales bigger by buying their coins from them at a much higher price after they have already pumped it. now as these shitcoins' bubbles burst they are taking bitcoin down with themselves too....

If you have a lot of volume (1 wale, or a group of wales), you can basically control the price to go up and down. By doing so, you can scalp the price all the time. You sell and BTC goes down, then you buy a lot and sell again when the price reaches a certain point and repeat.
Another way if you have a lot of money is to by selling a lot of BTC and at the same time going short on BTC with leveraged trading. By doing so, you can have 100x more profit (depending on the leverage). So manipulating the market can be very, very profitable. Crypto is not regulated yet, so there are no legal sanctions if people do such things. This is typical for new asset classes, but sucks ass for everyone that really wants a growing crypto marketcap!!!

you dont need whales
look at the markets. look at the market depth. its only a few hundred btc per market. and each order line is only a couple btc at most. it does not require whales(1k btc hoarders). it just requires a school of piranha(1btc EACH hoarders) all biting at the same bait and following the same suggestive water current

Well that's something slightly different. You are referring to sheeps (whale sheeps? hehe) that follow the same current which indeed have a strong impact on price. What I'm referring to is that big holders can organize and time big buys/selloffs, thereby profiting from their alliance.

I see where you are coming from. When entering into this space, it's hard not to be bedazzled by all the promises of new technology. You too probably watched too many videos and invested too much on the basis of shit those people say. If you have  "invested" mostly in bitcoin then like gentelemand said, just sit tight.

Sadly, for those who "invested" in ICOs believing the fake hype and vaporware promises will have to rely on their judgments or their luck. Those who did the research should just be part of whatever that ecosystem is. Those who simply bought Tron , well, get the hell out when you can.

The real fight is not with the manipulation that the big traders are doing. It is about the future of cryptocurrencies and how governments will try to regulate. Whether the regulation will be for safeguarding smaller investors or for controlling crytpo remains to be seen.

Every day it becomes more obvious. Positive news does not affect the course. There are only manipulations that affect the entire crypto currency market.

I also think a cold wallet is the first course of action, especially with all the recent exchanges that got hacked and even Myetherwallet a while ago. Not sure if a business computer is more secure though. Businesses still typically use windows machines and these can get much easier infected compared to Linux or Apple. Especially if you use them outside of the office network in your WLAN at Home.

This was obvious so long ago. I just couldn't understand how people can be so stupid.

People were talking about crypto like it was unstoppable by TPTB. Because they are just thinking about the technology.

But the TPTB which form the biggest collection of whales, can so easily choke the market by manipulating.

It was so obvious, but idiot videos with so much talk and hype and excitement over this that and the other made people think like prices are going up.

Now even though there is every reason for a bull market, it doesn't arrive because of these bastard whales.

If only there was a way to kick them out, or prevent whalish behaviour.

Cmon people, put your heads together and come up with an algorithm to remove whales.

And don't tell me we need whales and that they are good for us. These whales are killer orcs. We don't need these types of whales.

Now, if there are some Free Willy's out there, ofcourse count them in.

If such a channel suddenly appeared, it would eventually be filled up with advertising and all sorts of garbage. These have already been-for a long time they are not enough, so in any case have to understand themselves, and look
reliable information will have themselves

Hey

Is there any sort of improvement that can be added to the structure of BTC or other coins to at least lessen the effects of market manipulators with their sneaky pump and dump moves to gain themselves some profits and hurt the stability of a coin for the future?

Bitcoin will skyrocket only when everyone is as frustrated as the OP.
When everyone has given up and forgotten about Bitcoin... then the price will spike up.

reading OP's post again it seems to me like he is mostly frustrated with his altcoin bags as he refers to the situation as "potential price increases of all cryptos".
usually people like OP buy a ton of shitcoins and bag hold them. and as they lose a ton of money they start blaming everything for the mistakes they made.

Sadly, everyone wants to manipulate the market. Everyone wants to make their gains as certain as possible. That is why everybody wants to become whales. While the rich can handily do it, the small fishes try their best to ride with their calls. We all want to make a profit. As a matter of fact, we try to promote Bitcoin with sugar-coated descriptions. Why? Because we want its price to rise and gain from it. We read the news, we study trading, we try our luck with our TAs, we even join pump and dump groups, and so on. Why? Because we want to gain.

If we could have a chance to get out of all our uncertain and risky calls and manipulate the price movements of the market instead to create gains easily, would you not grab it?

The price manipulation is real, every time when price drops or goes ups incredibly fast and sharply is manipulation. IT is hard to determine the impact in large scale and in long run, they cant do it all the time because then there will be no action on shorts and longs thus they will not have option to profit form manipulation.

I don't follow those false price predictions, it can only lead to loss of more money, some of them don't even make a trade of their useless analysis. They are looking for noobs to send to the pit.

You can sense his frustrations, Lol, but you can't blame a guy who bought tons of shitcoins (maybe someone advise him to do so) and then just hold till 2019. Unfortunately, the altcoin market is bleeding and most of them are dying. And then vent his frustrations on the market and the manipulators and blame everyone including his dogs and neighbours.  ;D

Let's not single out Bitcoin as the only commodity or currency that are being manipulated. We know that certain cartels are busy manipulating the prices of things like precious metals. <Gold / Silver etc.> So this is just how this game is being played, the person or group of people with the most resources, determine the outcome of the game that are played.  >:(

These people also have enough money to pay other people <Shills> to spread FUD and to push their agenda on social media platforms to accomplish their goals. We just need to stand together to identify these shills and to fight back with the facts.  ;)

i will never ever blame anyone for making a mistake of making a bad investment decision. i know that i have made very similar mistakes and have lost money in the same fashion.

but i will blame all those who made the bad decision and then didn't do anything about it for a very long time (nearly 2 years) and continued losing money in that period. there is just no excuse for losing  80% to 95% of your investment over the course of 2 years and doing absolutely nothing about it and still continue bag holding shitcions...

Bitcoin market liquidity is still low, under these conditions, whales can still influence the price of bitcoin on the market. Based on information that I got, one of bitcoin investors named Barry Silbert have 48000 btc that he bought from the US government auction of silk road.and there are so many people like him who can influence bitcoin price. Predicting bitcoin price movement is very difficult for now.

I think you have gotten the secrete of bitcoin really, I have noticed that several times when people are all over the internet making predictions and analysis that bitcoin will increase and when the hype is really there, that is when you see the price of bitcoin dumping like there is no tomorrow, but that point where you have calm down and you are predicting bitcoin to drop low to $5000 and even lower, that is when bitcoin will decide to increase and surge beyond what we can imagine, this is why I am into long term investment, I cannot give myself headaches over prediction of prices, so I leave bitcoin to just perform in its own way while I watch once in a while.

I personally don't believe too that TA works for BTC fully, but it can still be applied to some extent.

Now things are no longer decentralized when so many whales with large sums are manipulating the market. For any industry, whales turned into pieces of meat. They will find ways to dominate and turn everything into profit. So analyze and make your own decisions to win.

Did anyone notice, that practically all of technical analysis books, videos and other sources teaches the same things and strategy?
My guess that it is done of someone to make huge profit from knowing exactly how people will react to fall or rise of cryptocurrency.

I don't how people who already entered crypto space be manipulated easily, but maybe it's because they kept letting them self be swayed by news and keeping their hopes higher than the price increase they are longing for. Relying on technical analysis only and not weighing things carefully coukd really lead to manipulation like this. Technical analysis isn't bad but u can't just rely on it only, you still need to have the ability to know what to do, what to believe, when to believe, when to make a move and control your feelings and not get ao hyped and excited so that u won't do any impulsive decisions.

Manipulations are possible, but I think we don't notice a tenth of their total number of manipulations. Besides, we can not affect it, the big fish in the game