Title: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 14, 2013, 02:09:50 PM We did a 15 bitfury miner design using the proprietary
'string' feature this ASIC has. In a string, all chips are arranged in a series configuration and power is applied accordingly. So instead of a low voltage/high current power supply, a less exotic power source can be used, driving down cost considerably and taking up less board area. The board measures 70 x 100 mm, is powered with 12 Volt and has a USB interface. As no DC/DC converter is needed, BOM costs can be well below $ 10 (ex. PCB and cooling). Hashrate can be compared to conventional designs and overclocking can be achieved by just increasing the supply voltage within certain limits. Reported hashrate is with 12V8 power supply and with a 2A6 current. Cooling for the prototype was done using a low-cost CPU heatsink. Temperatures measured on the PCB were in the 50..70 oC range. https://i.imgur.com/Zh1VmzD.jpg https://i.imgur.com/87kwQav.jpg https://i.imgur.com/G0lN2zi.gif intron & c-scape Note: Some images were retouched to protect our IP. Hope you understand. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 14, 2013, 02:10:07 PM - reserved -
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: deathmul on December 14, 2013, 02:37:21 PM How much?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: fractal02 on December 14, 2013, 02:38:42 PM Well done Intron and c-scape !
Selling a miner based on this design is planned ? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 14, 2013, 02:43:22 PM How much? We don't sell miners, we only design miners. The design can be purchased so other parties can produce them. We have not set definitive prices or conditions yet, just probing interrest for now. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Foofighter on December 14, 2013, 03:04:10 PM looks nice guys! But if the BF chip situation stays the same..
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: rammy2k2 on December 14, 2013, 04:51:07 PM with hashfast announcing 500 GH / chip .. this is ... dust in the wind ... all respect for your work tho !
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 14, 2013, 04:52:10 PM If the bitfury chips become available again, the higher difficulty requires a cheap board. A design like this has minimal BOM cost, so it will be a good solution.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 14, 2013, 04:58:50 PM with hashfast announcing 500 GH / chip .. this is ... dust in the wind ... all respect for your work tho ! What's their total cost for the chip, board, power regulators and cooling system ? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: zulunation on December 15, 2013, 09:16:17 PM The other side of the board has 15 different ground planes. The radiator can short them. Do you use a thermal pad between PCB and a heatsink? Or all ground covered with protective mask?
PS: Well done. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: klondike_bar on December 15, 2013, 10:10:03 PM didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: RoadStress on December 15, 2013, 10:12:37 PM If the bitfury chips become available again, the higher difficulty requires a cheap board. A design like this has minimal BOM cost, so it will be a good solution. Prices for bitfury chips might need to go down too. Can't have those ridiculous prices anymore. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 15, 2013, 10:20:36 PM The other side of the board has 15 different ground planes. The radiator can short them. Do you use a thermal pad between PCB and a heatsink? Or all ground covered with protective mask? PS: Well done. Smart guy:) It's Sil-Pad here. https://i.imgur.com/lNT8oMs.jpg intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 15, 2013, 10:27:42 PM didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted? Yes, you are right. We did that design, but we didn't operate the board, no idea why it went down in flames. Our strings board is running solid now for days and days on end. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 15, 2013, 11:34:43 PM didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted? As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant, I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant and less costly. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: kaerf on December 15, 2013, 11:41:49 PM Very nice. Are you using your own custom miner software?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: goxed on December 15, 2013, 11:56:47 PM didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted? As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant, I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant and less costly. intron +1 BF is the most integrated chip design of all SHA-256 hashers. It's like Intel Haswell with included clock, Vreg, and logic. What's missing is auto-overclock and p-states ;) just jk. btw which MCU are you using? Thanks! Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: klondike_bar on December 16, 2013, 12:02:29 AM didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted? As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant, I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant and less costly. intron +1 BF is the most integrated chip design of all SHA-256 hashers. It's like Intel Haswell with included clock, Vreg, and logic. What's missing is auto-overclock and p-states ;) just jk. btw which MCU are you using? Thanks! all i can say is: thank god this design does not rely on a Raspberry Pi controller. Somehow my bitfury rig went its first 20 shutdown cycles without any issue, but since then it seems everytime i need to adjust it, the card is damaged. Just today i had to format it, run for 10 min, make the new chainminer, then after a few min of 0.000 results i used sudo reboot and the SD is dead again Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 16, 2013, 12:04:42 AM didnt a similar design implemented as an H-board have a problem where if a chip shut off, all other chips became overvolted and shut off or melted? As a side note: this string configuration of chips is beyond brilliant, I think we must honour Valery for this. I have never seen anyone doing this before. It makes board design so much simpler, elegant and less costly. intron +1 BF is the most integrated chip design of all SHA-256 hashers. It's like Intel Haswell with included clock, Vreg, and logic. What's missing is auto-overclock and p-states ;) just jk. btw which MCU are you using? Thanks! A tiny NXP ARM, LPC11U24FHI33/301. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 16, 2013, 06:30:43 AM Very nice. Are you using your own custom miner software? The USB interface protocol (http://c-scape.nl/bi-fury/bifury_protocol.pdf) is the same as for bi*fury, so the latest cgminer/bfgminer version can be used.Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 16, 2013, 07:29:28 AM A tiny NXP ARM, LPC11U24FHI33/301. Note that the design is not dependent on the exact type of microcontroller. As long as it has a built-in USB interface, some I/O pins, and a few kB of RAM, it can be used in the design. We picked the LPC because we had already used it on the bi*fury. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: bclcjunkie on December 17, 2013, 02:07:36 AM neat and amazing job... are you guys planning to do the same for the latest avalon chips?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 17, 2013, 03:53:21 AM I don't think Avalon chips have a String feature.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Felipeo on December 17, 2013, 09:56:33 AM I really like this design :)
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 17, 2013, 10:03:10 AM I really like this design :) You can have it:-) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Dexter770221 on December 17, 2013, 10:04:15 AM It can be done with any chips, but requires extra components (opamp + mosfet)
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: rupy on December 17, 2013, 10:10:57 AM So when will we see this hitting the streets?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: ninjaboon on December 17, 2013, 10:38:33 AM now get this to hash scrypt!....nice design.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 17, 2013, 10:54:47 AM now get this to hash scrypt!....nice design. Hand me some chips, we'll make you a miner:) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: aauer1 on December 17, 2013, 11:17:39 AM Good job guys. I really like new design ideas!
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: allinvain on December 17, 2013, 09:48:04 PM This is the kind of design you need for a massive yet more cost effective mining farm. If had a bunch of bitfury chip reels guess what I'd be doing....
Congrats to intro and team for innovative board designs. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: vs3 on December 18, 2013, 12:14:28 AM Intron - Is this design based on the same idea that Tytus had:
2. 8-chip cards that were supposed to give more hashrate per chip using the same 30Amp power regulator, this design failed !!! the new PCB was designed as 2 layers and it generates too much noise to connect 2 h-cards in one bank ... so we can use such cards only in the last position of the bank. (in case the images above don't work here are the two images again: http://imgur.com/D7yH26n and http://imgur.com/gqVOtA5 )3. provisional 5V string designs [no power regulator], this is a very promising design, chips run very clean and fast, but require cooling. If this is not provided or if it fails, chips heat up, leakage increases, chips consume more power and heat up more and melt and burn finally http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG (http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG), http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG (http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG) ... the chips don't have any thermal sensors so I am still thinking how to detect such problems using the hardware we have. and where you later commented that it was an experiment that went out of control - What's that pic ... the new boards? and what's that pic ? ^^ http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG It's an experiment that went a bit out of control. The latest scientific explanation I heard is that "the boards don't like women." Not really sure about that though:) intron So basically - is it the same design? If so - what has been done (and was there anything done) to avoid the same outcome as tytus' ? And just out of curiosity - are you guys going to be publishing the design schematics? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: klondike_bar on December 18, 2013, 01:00:26 AM Intron - Is this design based on the same idea that Tytus had: 2. 8-chip cards that were supposed to give more hashrate per chip using the same 30Amp power regulator, this design failed !!! the new PCB was designed as 2 layers and it generates too much noise to connect 2 h-cards in one bank ... so we can use such cards only in the last position of the bank. (in case the images above don't work here are the two images again: http://imgur.com/D7yH26n and http://imgur.com/gqVOtA5 )3. provisional 5V string designs [no power regulator], this is a very promising design, chips run very clean and fast, but require cooling. If this is not provided or if it fails, chips heat up, leakage increases, chips consume more power and heat up more and melt and burn finally http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG (http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG), http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG (http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG) ... the chips don't have any thermal sensors so I am still thinking how to detect such problems using the hardware we have. and where you later commented that it was an experiment that went out of control - What's that pic ... the new boards? and what's that pic ? ^^ http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG It's an experiment that went a bit out of control. The latest scientific explanation I heard is that "the boards don't like women." Not really sure about that though:) intron So basically - is it the same design? If so - what has been done (and was there anything done) to avoid the same outcome as tytus' ? And just out of curiosity - are you guys going to be publishing the design schematics? this was my concern too, but intron's design has its own controller, so perhaps (hopefully) it is capable of detecting a lost chip and acting (restart the mining process or turn off) so that we dont see a bunch of home fires and molten PCBs Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: vs3 on December 18, 2013, 07:31:30 AM Intron - Is this design based on the same idea that Tytus had: 2. 8-chip cards that were supposed to give more hashrate per chip using the same 30Amp power regulator, this design failed !!! the new PCB was designed as 2 layers and it generates too much noise to connect 2 h-cards in one bank ... so we can use such cards only in the last position of the bank. (in case the images above don't work here are the two images again: http://imgur.com/D7yH26n and http://imgur.com/gqVOtA5 )3. provisional 5V string designs [no power regulator], this is a very promising design, chips run very clean and fast, but require cooling. If this is not provided or if it fails, chips heat up, leakage increases, chips consume more power and heat up more and melt and burn finally http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG (http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG), http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG (http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300316.JPG) ... the chips don't have any thermal sensors so I am still thinking how to detect such problems using the hardware we have. and where you later commented that it was an experiment that went out of control - What's that pic ... the new boards? and what's that pic ? ^^ http://150.254.111.246/img/S7300314.JPG It's an experiment that went a bit out of control. The latest scientific explanation I heard is that "the boards don't like women." Not really sure about that though:) intron So basically - is it the same design? If so - what has been done (and was there anything done) to avoid the same outcome as tytus' ? And just out of curiosity - are you guys going to be publishing the design schematics? this was my concern too, but intron's design has its own controller, so perhaps (hopefully) it is capable of detecting a lost chip and acting (restart the mining process or turn off) so that we dont see a bunch of home fires and molten PCBs The microcontroller is pretty much irrelevant for that issue. The issue that Tytus had is the same one that you get with any Christmas lights string - if one light shorts the rest get some extra voltage. If two short, the remaining lights get even more overpowered. And it gets worse and worse even faster until they all melt and/or the fuse blows. Or if one light burns - they all die. In tytus' case he was getting the first option - when chips overheat they tend to use more power and then they start overheating even further even faster until they hit the limit and the melting point. At which point you get either a short in one of the chips (and then everything dies very quickly), or the chip cuts the string and again everything dies. Actually my preference would be for the second option - at least the rest of the chips may survive :) Unfortunately (or fortunately?) bitfury's chip has a very solid design, and it's much easier to melt the silicon inside than to burn all of those power wires. Bitfury said at some point that he gave up on that design (quoting various reasons) but as time goes people may have found a workaround - and if that's the case - lots of respect for intron and co! And I guess that's the root of my question - is it some novel approach? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 19, 2013, 05:28:53 PM We have three One String boards hashing now,
looks like performance is rock solid. Board temperature well below 45 oC. Hottest ASIC about 70 oC. https://i.imgur.com/n3xjh1l.gif https://i.imgur.com/5aL4hGD.gif intron PS: The little blip in the green trace was cgminer going down and needed restarting:) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Trongersoll on December 19, 2013, 07:03:44 PM Ok, so the selling point on these isn't so much the hashrate as the lower cost of the power supply? You are losing me there. can you give an example of a typical power supply used and a lower cost alternative? I'm not sure what we are talking about.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 19, 2013, 07:06:54 PM This design uses 12V to power the chips directly. Other designs, such as the H-CARD have an on-board 12V -> 0.8V power regulator with 30-50Amp capability.
In both cases, you need a 12V supply, but for our new board, you avoid the additional cost of the 0.8V regulator. Also, the 0.8V regulator is typically only about 90% efficient, so it creates 10% more heat for the same hashrate. The powerful switching regulator also produces lots of electrical interference that can degrade reliability of the overall system, and requires additional components (capacitors/inductors) to help reduce the noise. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Trongersoll on December 19, 2013, 07:16:19 PM This design uses 12V to power the chips directly. Other designs, such as the H-CARD have an on-board 12V -> 0.8V power regulator with 30-50Amp capability. In both cases, you need a 12V supply, but for our new board, you avoid the additional cost of the 0.8V regulator. Oh, so the cost savings is in the parts list, not the actual power supply. The only reason i asked is that i'm getting tired of miners requiring ATX power supplies. Unless you get a modular one you have to deal with a bunch of unneeded cables. also they take up more room than a power brick. Unless you use some sort of case to put your miner in, your work space can become quite messy/unwieldy. This is one of the reasons i won't buy ASICminer Cubes, 1-2 Cubes per powersupply can make for a lot of power supplies laying around. I'm a Hobbyist. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: acidfox on December 19, 2013, 07:20:48 PM But this design has a very big disadvantage. If the first chip in the series connection got damaged the other chips doesnt work anymore, too.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 19, 2013, 07:23:43 PM But this design has a very big disadvantage. If the first chip in the series connection got damaged the other chips doesnt work anymore, too. That depends on the exact nature of the damage. If the hashing core is damaged (which makes up the biggest part of the chip), the chip may still provide a working connection to the other chips. It's not much different than low-voltage bitfury designs, such as the H-CARD. In those designs the communication between the chips also forms a chain. Actually, the M-BOARD has 4 H-CARDS with total of 64 chips in each chain. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 19, 2013, 07:26:42 PM Oh, so the cost savings is in the parts list, not the actual power supply. Correct. You still need a 12V power supply. Each card draws about 2-2.5 Amps, depending on the exact voltage. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 19, 2013, 07:40:13 PM Ok, so the selling point on these isn't so much the hashrate as the lower cost of the power supply? You are losing me there. can you give an example of a typical power supply used and a lower cost alternative? I'm not sure what we are talking about. Just as an example, take a look at the HashFast board: almost 50% is taken up by the DC/DC converting circuitery providing for the low voltage/high current the chip needs. In a string design this DC/DC conversion is no longer needed, so taking up no PCB area and not adding to the Bill of Materials. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 19, 2013, 07:45:40 PM And it's not just the cost of the components, but also the availability of some of the more exotic ones.
Another factor is the circuit board design. The fast switching DC/DC regulators typically require at least a 4-layer board for good performance. The One String design uses a cheap 2-layer board. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: gmaxwell on December 19, 2013, 07:50:31 PM Might be a more interesting design if the chips were priced anywhere near the marginal cost of manufacturer, but with them priced like they were solid gold— the cost of the additional electronics and the reliability concerns may outweigh the benefits.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 19, 2013, 07:55:39 PM These boards don't have additional electronics. On the contrary, a lot of the expensive components have been removed, and the 2-layer board is cheaper too.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: gmaxwell on December 19, 2013, 08:35:54 PM These boards don't have additional electronics. On the contrary, a lot of the expensive components have been removed, and the 2-layer board is cheaper too. Yes, I know. I was attempting and failing to say that the because the chips are so costly the additional electronics are not that substantial, and considering the reliability concerns the efficiencies gained may not be worth it. E.g. you save $x on support electronics but increase the failure rate by y% then if its a win or not depends on the price of the chips.E.g. if chips cost a million dollars a piece and you save $20/chip on electronics at the cost of a 0.01% increase in failures its not a win. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 19, 2013, 08:45:29 PM So far, we have no indication of increased failure rate. The prototypes that we have are rock solid with constant temperature and constant hashing speed. In a couple of weeks, we'll make a few dozen more boards, and we'll see what happens to the failure rate.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Syke on December 19, 2013, 08:46:28 PM I was attempting and failing to say that the because the chips are so costly the additional electronics are not that substantial That will change. The chips are going down to $5/chip. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 19, 2013, 08:54:11 PM That will change. The chips are going down to $5/chip. Either they will go to $5/chip and lower, or they will not be sold at all. In the first case, you need a cheap, low-overhead, mining board. In the second case, you don't need a mining board at all. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: gmaxwell on December 19, 2013, 09:13:16 PM Fair enough.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: rupy on December 19, 2013, 10:04:44 PM So when, where and how much?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: RoadStress on December 19, 2013, 11:22:29 PM So when, where and how much? I would like to know that for the 5$/ bitfury chip, because if you are asking about boards, then find out that they don't sell boards. Only the design. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: klondike_bar on December 20, 2013, 01:25:10 AM i'm still not sure if my concern was fully answered; what makes this board design work when the H-board string design ended in molten plastic and scorched PCB?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 20, 2013, 06:31:03 AM i'm still not sure if my concern was fully answered; what makes this board design work when the H-board string design ended in molten plastic and scorched PCB? We have a better design :)Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Pentium100 on December 20, 2013, 07:16:54 AM The problem with this design is that it requires the 12V power supply to be very well regulated (and adjustable if you want to overclock). Normal ATX PSUs are not that well regulated (ATX spec provides for up to +-5% tolerance on the 12V line (older spec allowed 10%).
On the other hand, I could buy a big well regulated (and adjustable, or at least modify it to be adjustable) 12V PSU and connect a lot of the boards to it. Then it comes to what is cheaper - A standard ATX PSU (I can sometimes get them cheap by taking failed ones and repairing them) and regulators in each board or an expensive PSU and no regulators. I guess the "no regulators" design wins over for large numbers of boards, while the traditional design is better for a few boards. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on December 20, 2013, 07:45:04 AM The on-board 0.8V, 30A regulator would add about $15-$20 to the design. For 10-15 cards, the money saved would buy a good PSU with voltage trim option.
Either way, the cards work fine if the voltage isn't perfectly regulated. They just run a bit cooler under 12V, and a bit faster/hotter over 12V. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Dexter770221 on December 20, 2013, 08:47:16 AM So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips ;)
PowerMatrix ;) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 20, 2013, 11:24:11 AM So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips ;) PowerMatrix ;) We did that already. It's called X-HASH:) intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Trongersoll on December 20, 2013, 05:35:58 PM So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips ;) PowerMatrix ;) We did that already. It's called X-HASH:) intron and how did that work? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 20, 2013, 05:46:45 PM So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips ;) PowerMatrix ;) We did that already. It's called X-HASH:) intron and how did that work? It takes so many bitfury chips to test it, we were reluctant to try it. That's why we started with the smaller strings. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: sidehack on December 20, 2013, 06:18:02 PM Quote Oh, so the cost savings is in the parts list, not the actual power supply. The only reason i asked is that i'm getting tired of miners requiring ATX power supplies. Unless you get a modular one you have to deal with a bunch of unneeded cables. also they take up more room than a power brick. Unless you use some sort of case to put your miner in, your work space can become quite messy/unwieldy. This is one of the reasons i won't buy ASICminer Cubes, 1-2 Cubes per powersupply can make for a lot of power supplies laying around. I'm a Hobbyist. In the next day or two I should have prototype information available for an interface board designed to break out server supplies for use with miners; these can typically be found for much cheaper than an equivalent output/efficiency ATX supply and usually exhibit better regulation. Screw terminals so you only use what wires you want, and additional output filtering. They're also designed to be run in parallel with load sharing and daisy-chain for automatic power-on in groups. Quote The problem with this design is that it requires the 12V power supply to be very well regulated (and adjustable if you want to overclock). Normal ATX PSUs are not that well regulated (ATX spec provides for up to +-5% tolerance on the 12V line (older spec allowed 10%). If enough people want it, I'll look into adding a trimmer to tweak output voltages. Been watching this thread; series power dropping chips (if it can be done reliably) is such a darn cool idea and if someone ends up making these boards affordably (and chips are available for not a bajillion dollars) I'll definitely be in the market. Good work, guys. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Taugeran on December 20, 2013, 07:09:06 PM So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips ;) PowerMatrix ;) We did that already. It's called X-HASH:) intron and how did that work? It takes so many bitfury chips to test it, we were reluctant to try it. That's why we started with the smaller strings. intron are there any photographs available of said x-hash or was one ever fabbed? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 20, 2013, 07:14:15 PM So, now it's time for you to design board with parallel/serial connection of chips ;) PowerMatrix ;) We did that already. It's called X-HASH:) intron and how did that work? It takes so many bitfury chips to test it, we were reluctant to try it. That's why we started with the smaller strings. intron are there any photographs available of said x-hash or was one ever fabbed? No, the board was only designed, never made (yet). As I mentioned, we didn't want to risk a lot of bitfury chips for just one experiment. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Pentium100 on December 21, 2013, 10:06:59 AM In the next day or two I should have prototype information available for an interface board designed to break out server supplies for use with miners; these can typically be found for much cheaper than an equivalent output/efficiency ATX supply and usually exhibit better regulation. Screw terminals so you only use what wires you want, and additional output filtering. They're also designed to be run in parallel with load sharing and daisy-chain for automatic power-on in groups. I have repaired a couple of power supplies used in Supermicro servers (Ablecom forgot the part number). While I still do not know the full pinout of the connector, I found which two traces to short inside to turn it on. Aslong as the power supply is not fully digital, it should not be difficult to use it. Still, the regular ATX PSUs are simpler and easier to fix :)Quote If enough people want it, I'll look into adding a trimmer to tweak output voltages. Traditional (not digital) power supplies can be modified to adjust he output voltage just by controlling the feedback. However, if you want the adjustment to be external to the power supply (so you don't need to open the PSU), then youwill have to use a powerful regulator and the total cost will probably be higher than an adjustable PSU.Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 24, 2013, 02:40:18 PM Had five Ones String boards hashing for some
time, performance looks nice and stable and no thermal runaways. https://i.imgur.com/2TykbVp.gif intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: KNK on December 25, 2013, 06:00:09 PM No, the board was only designed, never made (yet). I don't think it will work better than several strings in paralel. The chip seems to like constant current more than constant voltage, but the built in regulator will try to equalize the voltage across paraleled chips and if they are not equal, they will not perform at their best ... and you save nothing more than few resistors on the SPI. I have my strings running on 24V better than on 12V, probably because the current is more stableAs I mentioned, we didn't want to risk a lot of bitfury chips for just one experiment. I hope the chips will be cheap and freely available in volume soon - my idea is to run the string directly on 220V, which also risks a lot of chips for the experiment, but will save additional 10-20% of power efficiency ... just not sure if RPi will be capable of running 350-400 chips in a string and also there is the lower SPI speed with the increased string length Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on December 26, 2013, 12:52:44 AM No, the board was only designed, never made (yet). I don't think it will work better than several strings in paralel. The chip seems to like constant current more than constant voltage, but the built in regulator will try to equalize the voltage across paraleled chips and if they are not equal, they will not perform at their best ... and you save nothing more than few resistors on the SPI. I have my strings running on 24V better than on 12V, probably because the current is more stableAs I mentioned, we didn't want to risk a lot of bitfury chips for just one experiment. I hope the chips will be cheap and freely available in volume soon - my idea is to run the string directly on 220V, which also risks a lot of chips for the experiment, but will save additional 10-20% of power efficiency ... just not sure if RPi will be capable of running 350-400 chips in a string and also there is the lower SPI speed with the increased string length Did you try placing chips in parallel? I'm also not sure whether to make seperate strings or connect all nodes with the same voltage level together. Biggest challenge is the huge amount of chips you have to sacrifice for a single experiment that might run haywire:) And this 220V string is af course the optimum you can get in cost efficency:) Looked into a rectifier for this, it's not easy, mainly due to the current that is needed. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: KNK on December 26, 2013, 04:36:19 PM Did you try placing chips in parallel? Didn't even tried that. During my tests i have discovered that each chip requires a bit different voltage for optimal speed, but always the same amps, so it's like the chip 'wants' to be serially connected :)Quote And this 220V string is af course the optimum you You need 2-2.5A for the string ... let's make them 3A = 600uF for 0.1V @50Hz it's not that much and expensive, but still, the main ripple regulator should be the current limiter for the string and then each chip for itself (via it's current mirror)can get in cost efficency:) Looked into a rectifier for this, it's not easy, mainly due to the current that is needed. One of the problems is that the grid voltage is not so stable, you need protection from the (kA) spikes, so you will definitely need an UPS (and if it's on-line model with 220V to 110V conversion, you can go with shorter strings), but then you'll loose in efficiency again :( The second one is, the string length will reduce the SPI speed and the third one is that RPi (or dedicated MCU) may not be able to drive that much chips EDIT: Ooops it's 300mF not 600uF, so you are right it will be expensive Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: VinCeCream on December 29, 2013, 07:44:51 PM Had five Ones String boards hashing for some time, performance looks nice and stable and no thermal runaways. https://i.imgur.com/2TykbVp.gif intron Well done folks ! Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: pauljbl on January 03, 2014, 11:59:59 PM Hi
Are you able to make me this miner if I get the chips Cheers Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on January 04, 2014, 01:32:19 PM Hi Are you able to make me this miner if I get the chips Cheers https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370932.msg3963420#msg3963420 Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on January 10, 2014, 09:40:01 PM Fastest USB miner at this moment:
https://i.imgur.com/nFqPO7d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MjCPOg4.gif Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running from a 5.5 Volts supply. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: RoadStress on January 10, 2014, 09:53:07 PM Fastest USB miner at this moment: Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running from a 5.5 Volts supply. intron How much? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on January 10, 2014, 10:10:41 PM Fastest USB miner at this moment: Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running from a 5.5 Volts supply. intron How much? PM-ed you. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: KNK on January 10, 2014, 11:18:04 PM Fastest USB miner at this moment So it's not powered from the USB, but from an external power supply ?... from a 5.5 Volts supply. Even at the minimum 0.6W/Gh the BF chips are capable of - 15Gh is 9W, which is not possible from a single USB port be it even 3.0 With 2x USB 3.0 or 4x USB 2.0 it is doable Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: klondike_bar on January 10, 2014, 11:24:00 PM nice USb, but i dont understand why - it draws far too much power for a USB port, so for the effort of getting it to work it seems like a much easier idea to go with the one-string or other design that uses 12V and holds more chips
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: pgminer01 on January 10, 2014, 11:32:34 PM please pm the price for hex fury , thanks
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on January 10, 2014, 11:37:34 PM nice USb, but i dont understand why - it draws far too much power for a USB port, so for the effort of getting it to work it seems like a much easier idea to go with the one-string or other design that uses 12V and holds more chips It takes about 2.5 Amps, you can power it from an USB hub. And it also has a seperate power input that feeds the bitfury ASICs. When this option is chosen then the USB has to power only the processor. And indeed, we were just playing around a bit...;) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: libertybuck on January 11, 2014, 03:40:22 AM Hi intron, please PM me price for hex-fury.
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: goxed on January 11, 2014, 04:13:32 AM nice USb, but i dont understand why - it draws far too much power for a USB port, so for the effort of getting it to work it seems like a much easier idea to go with the one-string or other design that uses 12V and holds more chips It takes about 2.5 Amps, you can power it from an USB hub. And it also has a seperate power input that feeds the bitfury ASICs. When this option is chosen then the USB has to power only the processor. And indeed, we were just playing around a bit...;) Extremely promising design. Congrats :) what is the controller chip that you are using? Thanks! Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: kaerf on January 11, 2014, 07:01:31 AM Fastest USB miner at this moment: https://i.imgur.com/nFqPO7d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MjCPOg4.gif Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running from a 5.5 Volts supply. intron awesome. someone actually made a 6 chip version. i'd thought about making a 6 chip stick when the sample chips first came out (but our first design failed and we gave up)...I think this is the best bang for the buck you can get out of bitfury chips in a USB stick form factor. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on January 11, 2014, 07:03:13 AM I think this is the best bang for the buck you can get out of bitfury chips in a USB stick form factor. Yes, that was the idea. Total BOM cost is about $4, excluding bitfury ASICs. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Opsamk on January 12, 2014, 02:46:02 PM How much (PM please ;))
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Silv0r on January 12, 2014, 04:33:46 PM Hi guys,
it's really nice work you've done there. Interested in getting one of them! :) Greetings, Silv0r Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: drukoz on January 13, 2014, 04:24:53 AM please pm with prices :D please and thank you
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: freddyfarnsworth on January 13, 2014, 06:45:11 AM Are the chips available now ? If so a roundabout price ?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: Beastlymac on January 13, 2014, 06:55:52 AM Are the chips available now ? If so a roundabout price ? No they won't be back in stock until FebruaryTitle: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: sebdude420 on January 13, 2014, 08:37:02 AM I really like the One String miner. Wish i had some bitfury chips right bout now. Is this what Dave was carrying with him at Inside Bitcoins Las Vegas?
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on January 13, 2014, 08:54:55 AM I really like the One String miner. Wish i had some bitfury chips right bout now. Is this what Dave was carrying with him at Inside Bitcoins Las Vegas? Don't think so:) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: allten on January 14, 2014, 05:38:23 PM Intron, Cscape,
Very nice work! Just when i thought I've seen it all, you come a long and surprise me. in your opinion, what are the possibilities this will become a standard with new ASIC chip designs from others? Hopefully other ASIC competitors will take notice. No DCDC converter with only two layer PCBs is a huge win in price reduction. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: KNK on January 14, 2014, 06:21:44 PM No DCDC converter with only two layer PCBs is a huge win in price reduction. Many thanks to bitfury - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2411923#msg2411923 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2411923#msg2411923) he designed the chip with that in mind ... so far no one picked up that trend and we are still far from the best design of a chip, but if he fixes the few small problems for V2 (which i am sure he is working on and wish him a luck with that) - that will be the best of both worlds: high hashrate and cheap board.Many thanks to Intron and Cscape for their work too - they have showed to the public that it's possible and hopefully more chip designers will at least think about the possibility. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on January 14, 2014, 07:17:48 PM Intron, Cscape, Very nice work! Just when i thought I've seen it all, you come a long and surprise me. in your opinion, what are the possibilities this will become a standard with new ASIC chip designs from others? Hopefully other ASIC competitors will take notice. No DCDC converter with only two layer PCBs is a huge win in price reduction. To be able to make a string design, the chip must provide for a method to shunt the current that is carried by the string when it is not in full operation. When you got that one right and have some means of level shifting of the signals going up and down the string it should be possible whith any chip. And Valery got that right:) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: palawan on January 17, 2014, 08:17:05 AM Fastest USB miner at this moment: Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running from a 5.5 Volts supply. intron How much? PM-ed you. Also interested in the hex*fury... Please PM for the price. Thanks. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: drukoz on January 18, 2014, 09:21:59 AM Fastest USB miner at this moment: https://i.imgur.com/nFqPO7d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MjCPOg4.gif Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running from a 5.5 Volts supply. intron how much for any of ur products ? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: goxed on January 19, 2014, 02:02:11 PM I have a few quick question regarding string configuration.
Q1 ) Can I assume each bitfury chip acts like a diode, and a string is just a series connection of multiple chips? Q2 ) Do the chips have an internal voltage regulator or some kind of impedance adjustment? Thanks in advance. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: KNK on January 19, 2014, 02:31:28 PM Q1 ) Can I assume each bitfury chip acts like a diode, and a string is just a series connection of multiple chips? Not quite, as it has it's own consumption, not a fixed voltage drop like diodes, but the second part is correct.Q2 ) Do the chips have an internal voltage regulator or some kind of impedance adjustment? Yes there is current mirror inside the chip, which does the job.Detailed explanation is here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2460608#msg2460608) and here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242745.msg2576406#msg2576406) is a picture of what's inside the chip (to replace Russian explanation), but the external links of the schematic are wrong Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: ManeBjorn on January 20, 2014, 04:14:00 AM Where do we get these to test out?? That looks like a little beast with a big punch.
Fastest USB miner at this moment: https://i.imgur.com/nFqPO7d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MjCPOg4.gif Doing 15+ GH sustained, hex•fury is running from a 5.5 Volts supply. intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: snoopy_nzl on February 10, 2014, 08:59:00 AM I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? :)
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cscape on February 10, 2014, 09:02:37 AM I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? :) We are working with others to get both the 15-chip One String Miner, as well as the 6-chip hex*fury produced. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: klondike_bar on February 10, 2014, 04:16:57 PM I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? :) We are working with others to get both the 15-chip One String Miner, as well as the 6-chip hex*fury produced. I await updates on this :) someone needs to compete with Bitmain. its shocking that that company came out of no-where with a developed product, and has sold from stock for months now at the best price on the market and some of the best design (could be a little more compact or a bit more power efficient, but those are little details) Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: ManeBjorn on February 10, 2014, 04:26:18 PM I am definitely interested in them when they come out. Looks great so far.
If you need someone to test any units for you let me know. I'D like to buy one can I get directions where to buy from? :) We are working with others to get both the 15-chip One String Miner, as well as the 6-chip hex*fury produced. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on February 10, 2014, 05:29:04 PM I am definitely interested in them when they come out. Looks great so far.
If you need someone to test any units for you let me know. -- Thank you for the offer, but we are 'testing' the hell out of these things already. And for more than Two Weeks (tm) ;) intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: ManeBjorn on February 10, 2014, 06:19:52 PM Very cool.
I can't wait to see them hit the market. I am definitely interested in them when they come out. Looks great so far. If you need someone to test any units for you let me know. -- Thank you for the offer, but we are 'testing' the hell out of these things already. And for more than Two Weeks (tm) ;) intron Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: KNK on February 10, 2014, 06:28:20 PM Only if there are chips first :( Waiting since November to build some more strings.
One strange thing i have noticed, is that the hashrate is increasing with the time without any other changes - started with 245Gh and now at 265Gh/s ... ~7% increase it's like with the time the clock stabilizes and increases or the chips get in some kind of resonance between themselves. @intron do you have similar experience with strings? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on February 10, 2014, 07:11:41 PM Only if there are chips first :( Waiting since November to build some more strings. One strange thing i have noticed, is that the hashrate is increasing with the time without any other changes - started with 245Gh and now at 265Gh/s ... ~7% increase it's like with the time the clock stabilizes and increases or the chips get in some kind of resonance between themselves. @intron do you have similar experience with strings? The hashrate of a strings design is heavily dependent of the supply voltage. You are sure this didn't change? Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: KNK on February 10, 2014, 07:59:30 PM The hashrate of a strings design is heavily dependent The PSU is 24V +- 1% not 7% and the power (edit: at the wall) is the same, while an increased voltage should have been increased the consumption too.of the supply voltage. You are sure this didn't change? My strings are of 28 chips or 14 per 12V instead of 15 as in your case. The last chip is replaced from a diode to get the IOVDD (wasn't sure if IOVDD = VDD will work, so played safe) - this is the only part that may affect the overall per chip voltage ... in case the voltage drop on the diode decreases with the time, but then the effect of the temperature would be much more, which is not the case, so my (current) bet is on either CMQ (+-) resitors change in value (= less unused current for balancing) or some kind of resonance of the chip clocks Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: BenTuras on March 02, 2014, 05:09:45 AM We've got them :)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495536.0 Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: precrime3 on March 12, 2014, 04:39:27 PM Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD
Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: intron on March 12, 2014, 06:31:34 PM Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD PM-ed you. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: cannachris on March 14, 2014, 09:14:39 PM Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD Same here please, want to buy at least one, awesome design! Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: ManeBjorn on March 14, 2014, 09:42:23 PM Me too please. I had already PM'd you though. ;D
Thanks Intron - please PM me details about the hex miner, VERY interested xD PM-ed you. Title: Re: - One String - a novel bitfury miner design - Post by: precrime3 on March 14, 2014, 10:01:43 PM Any ETA on these? Pumped for 15 gh/s usb sticks xD
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