Bitcoin Forum

Please let me know if i miss out any factors and I can add them in. thanks.

Live visit to the factory by general public is something that is probably not available as a verification as much...  Asking the corporate secrets to be reveal...  it's a tough one

Scammer can make a beautiful website, proper business registrations, open office and all that, but Prototype Photos and Video would be nice...  BUT REMEMBER!!!  Prototype is a Prototype!!!

Everyone needs to use own due diligence and common sense 

I think a history of shipped products is a big one.

Hehe, "company".

Do you do tours?

that certainly helps reduce risk...   but in a few examples, there are companies who have successfully shipped products created using other people's asics (e.g. avalons or bitfurys) who are expecting customers to trust that they will somehow have the extra skills necessary to design their own asics...   and i don't think it necessarily translates.

being able to design boards, or assemble boxes with other people's components is only a partial proof of the competencies required to design your own asic, especially one thats competitive with the best out there.  being a good asic designer is its own set of skills and i don't expect the companies that design the boards to also be the same companies that design the asics.

-- Jez

Anything that has to do with physical evidence is a must. Everything else is just fluff. Never believe anything you hear the first time you hear it. This is especially key on the internet. Videos, photos, even personal testimonies can easily be faked here. Unless you sit down and touch one of the units, see it hashing on your own monitor, or go to their offices and hit on their secretary, there's no reason to order from an unestablished company other than to incur constant worry.

I wonder if 14 people would vote on a poll entitled "Help me refine my scams"?

BFL seems to get all the quality feedback they need to refine their scams and nothing gets done about it by the mods?
Why worry about this poll and not warn people off BFL, seems pretty disingenuous to comment here and not about them as a Mod, no?

Could be OP has/represents a bunch of new buying power and is looking for experienced guidance.

Or possibly OP is contemplating writing a buyers' guide (or even a sellers' guide.)

Have you found yourself with a dull axe, or what?

The heck— it was just an observation. Answers here are not terribly useful except in helping people refine their scams. (After all, knowing lots of people look for X isn't helpful without knowing if those people did or didn't get ripped off)

The results don't seem to be giving away any secret sauce to scammers. 

People find that more real world verifiable physical evidence, the more likely the company is legit... I.e. founders are public figures that are available in linked in and have tech history.  Physical location is verifiable.

Also there is a difference between a scam and a crappy business that is legit, by not capable of being successful due to mismanagement etc.

It's a little interesting to me that in a discussion/poll on legitimate hardware companies and there is no option or mention of illegal refund policies...

Here's the biggest factors I look for in a hardware manufacture:
A) do they conform to consumer protection laws
B) am I being treated as an investomer

If a company cannot pass those two minimum requirements than I don't care who owns the company, what the $/gh/s is, what they have proven in the past or anything really.

Not many companies currently offering hardware can pass those two points and the ones that can have ridiculous pricing in terms of BTC break even point and as such I am still a bystander in the BTC asic mining race.  Although I am happily and profitably mining LTC with my GPU's!

You read my mind sir!!

This is like a playbook for the ultimate scam!!

Scams where greed is concerned are easy enough to pull off from observing their most consistent pattern.

Tell people what they want to hear and they will throw all reason out the window. You promise bigger, faster, cheaper then they will happily forgo any accountability and protected payments for promised future delivery and simulated best case specifications. If you can couple it with pretty aesthetically pleasing renders, then bonus points if they can visualise it looking good next to their hifi.

Sad, but true, just look around...

They can supply a tax invoice. ;)

If they're screwing over the tax system, they'll have no problems screwing over their customers.

Don't know why I feel compelled to defend poor OP.  But I read through his post history and found this:

A preponderance of posts discussing known scammers.
Recognition of the bright lights shined on hardware scamming attempts.
Enough naivete to fall for an obvious proudhon prank.
A claim of having lost a chunk of change to a hardware scam.
Claims of being currently invested in pre-orders.

This thread is an interesting example of the very touchy radar that has developed about hardware scamming.  

I'm still of the mind OP is investigating a buyer's beware guide, or possibly a shopping/reselling service, or maybe wants to compile an authoritative ongoing hardware scamming history.

Hope I'm not becoming OP's BCP19.

Only sales of hardware in stock, no pre-orders

+1. Until they say they are in stock and don't deliver.

Only one proof enough - Accepting fraud protected payments methods.
Use 100% cover payment by Escrow and you are the King.