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Other => Archival => Topic started by: silkroad on March 01, 2011, 12:26:38 AM



Title: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 01, 2011, 12:26:38 AM
Hi everyone,

Silk Road is into it's third week after launch and I am very pleased with the results.  There are several sellers and buyers finding mutually agreeable prices, and as of today, 28 transactions have been made!

For those who don't know, Silk Road is an anonymous online market.

Of course, it is in its infant stages and I have many ideas about where to go with it.  But I am turning to you, the community, to give me your input and to have a say in what direction it takes.

What is missing?  What works?  What do you want to see created?  What obstacles do you see for the future of Silk Road?  What opportunities?

The general mood of this community is that we are up to something big, something that can really shake things up.  Bitcoin and Tor are revolutionary and sites like Silk Road are just the beginning.

I don't want to put anyone in a box with my ideas, so I will let you take it from here...

-Silk Road staff

(access the site using the links in my signature)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on March 01, 2011, 12:35:02 AM
Really only your third week? I found you from the hidden wiki just about that long ago. I just assumed you must've been around for a long time.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 01, 2011, 12:40:13 AM
The site has been in development for about four months, but was launched only three weeks ago.  I'll take it as a compliment that you thought it had been around longer ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on March 01, 2011, 12:47:04 AM
I don't do drugs, but I do think that silk road is kind of a neat service for people who are into that sorta thing. :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2011, 12:53:41 AM
I can't view the site due to me being on a PowerPC Mac. Is there any Nootropics or "non-brain burning" drugs on there?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 01, 2011, 12:54:38 AM
I don't do drugs, but I do think that silk road is kind of a neat service for people who are into that sorta thing. :)

My hope is that eventually, more than just drugs will be listed there.  Drugs are an obvious direction to go in, however, because there isn't a good market for them currently.  I have a category for weapons as well because many people are restricted from purchasing these, but no one has listed in that category yet.  It would be great to hear if anyone has ideas for other kinds of products that would fit well at Silk Road.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 01, 2011, 01:45:40 AM
I can't view the site due to me being on a PowerPC Mac. Is there any Nootropics or "non-brain burning" drugs on there?

I'm not entirely sure how to classify the following drugs, but they are listed as well under "prescription":
Viagra
Xanax
Alprazolam
Colnazepam
and Amphetamine salts

Have you accessed a tor hidden service before?  I think you can find a browser for PowerPC here: https://www.torproject.org/dist/vidalia-bundles/vidalia-bundle-0.2.1.30-0.2.10-ppc.dmg (https://www.torproject.org/dist/vidalia-bundles/vidalia-bundle-0.2.1.30-0.2.10-ppc.dmg).  And here are some instructions: https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-osx.html.en (https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-osx.html.en)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: theymos on March 01, 2011, 02:02:27 AM
This topic was briefly removed due to the "illegal trading" policy, but I decided that since you're not actually selling drugs in this thread, it's OK. (Maybe some other moderator/admin will disagree with my later decision, though.) Sorry about that.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2011, 02:13:57 AM
I can't view the site due to me being on a PowerPC Mac. Is there any Nootropics or "non-brain burning" drugs on there?

I'm not entirely sure how to classify the following drugs, but they are listed as well under "prescription":
Viagra
Xanax
Alprazolam
Colnazepam
and Amphetamine salts

Have you accessed a tor hidden service before?  I think you can find a browser for PowerPC here: https://www.torproject.org/dist/vidalia-bundles/vidalia-bundle-0.2.1.30-0.2.10-ppc.dmg (https://www.torproject.org/dist/vidalia-bundles/vidalia-bundle-0.2.1.30-0.2.10-ppc.dmg).  And here are some instructions: https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-osx.html.en (https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-osx.html.en)

Hm, mainstream stuff. None of it is of any use to me.

Thanks for the links. I'll stay tuned.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2011, 02:17:31 AM
As for feedback, I would like to see more intellect enhancers but that's just me. ; )


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 01, 2011, 03:20:57 AM
So, does one have to refrigerate dried P. cubensis? Storage and use instructions would help customers. ...Not that I currently possess any or have ever visited the Silk Road.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: popeyes on March 01, 2011, 09:13:08 AM
I really like the idea of the site!  What I'd like to see is a rating/reputation system of some sort, or just something that can make people feel safer that they aren't gonna get ripped off.  I'm not sure the best way to implement something like this. 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: genjix on March 01, 2011, 09:34:16 AM
hahaha! great idea


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Dixie on March 01, 2011, 09:44:00 AM
Is the silk road a shop?  would it do any business?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on March 01, 2011, 05:43:49 PM
I really like the idea of the site!  What I'd like to see is a rating/reputation system of some sort, or just something that can make people feel safer that they aren't gonna get ripped off.  I'm not sure the best way to implement something like this. 

I thought I saw discussion that something like this was going to be in place soon. Any word, SilkRoad?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: bitdragon on March 01, 2011, 08:45:49 PM
It's a market with buyers and sellers and I guess no one is related to the operator.
Maybe buyers could have their wish list too that sellers may be inclined to service.
There could then be an order book with bid and ask for each product or service, and the more you want something the more you are willing to pay and attract new providers ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: username on March 01, 2011, 09:46:08 PM
I would like to know which of the source forums these public vending sites came from. I know the source forum scene is huge these days and nobody is on ALL of the forums, but some background would be nice. What forums or trusted members will rep for you? RaveSupply is the only public vendor site right now that has a known history from the scene, although there are others being worked on. Just curious.

Undrugged used to be a good place to get ratings on vendors but you couldn't search through it for vendors if you didn't already know their contact information. You typed in their contact information and then could see and read reports on vendor product quality and legitimacy. Now there is Safe Or Scam which does pretty much the same thing but is run by different people than Undrugged used to be.

I am glad that now there are sites popping up that offer sourcing so publicly, make prohibition impossible to enforce!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on March 01, 2011, 09:53:15 PM
It's a market with buyers and sellers and I guess no one is related to the operator.
Maybe buyers could have their wish list too that sellers may be inclined to service.
There could then be an order book with bid and ask for each product or service, and the more you want something the more you are willing to pay and attract new providers ;)
There actually are some listings specifically by silkroad, rather than a random vendor.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: username on March 01, 2011, 10:01:13 PM
Please make sure you are protected from intersection attacks. Tor is EXCELLENT for pure information smuggling, but when there is already geolocation intelligence from mailing (non-information smuggling) it is very weak to intersection attacks narrowing in on you. This poster made great points:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175.80


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: dirtyfilthy on March 02, 2011, 12:40:29 AM
Does all this stuff just get shipped through the regular mail? I'm too paranoid to take the risk of customs officers turning up on my doorstep personally.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on March 02, 2011, 12:46:18 AM
Speaking for myself, I wouldn't touch this with a 10 feet pole... but that's because my country's police is bit overhead when it turns to paranoia and drugs.  :P

Still a question, is silk road just a gun/drugs store? No other categories up to be open?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: satamusic on March 02, 2011, 01:03:39 AM
i'm afraid to even be posting here  :-X

brb, a black van just pulled up and two men in suits are at the door...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: username on March 02, 2011, 01:47:08 AM
Quote
Does all this stuff just get shipped through the regular mail? I'm too paranoid to take the risk of customs officers turning up on my doorstep personally.

This almost never happens. Where you live does play a role though, as well as where the product is coming from. Things that are shipped domestic do not go through customs, so if you order from a vendor in the same country as you there wont be customs agents. Maybe postal inspectors though. There is very little screening of mail domestic. Things through customs are harder although it depends again on the country. Australia screens huge amounts of mail, getting in anything other than a standard flat envelope is nearly impossible. Most nations, including USA and pretty much all of Europe, it is easy to sneak things past customs. The real risk is on the importer, after a package is in the country the product can be redistributed with in the country with more or less zero risk.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: username on March 02, 2011, 01:50:28 AM
Just for the record, SilkRoad has no apparent ties to any of the underground drug trading forums. For this reason alone I do not trust them. If they want my trust they need to say who can vouch for them or what forums they have been on. Even if they post a hash of the forums name and a random string of their choice it will be nice, then people from drug forums can compare forums they have been on + the random string and look for a match. This way people can learn if silkroad is on any trusted forums and silkroad doesn't need to leak any forum names. Honestly a vendor site like this with no backing from the forums I automatically am distrutful of, although they could be legitimate regardless.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on March 03, 2011, 05:39:59 PM
So, does one have to refrigerate dried P. cubensis? Storage and use instructions would help customers. ...Not that I currently possess any or have ever visited the Silk Road.

http://www.erowid.org/


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: opticbit on March 04, 2011, 09:19:44 PM
not sure how to keep anon (if your gonna use a dr.), but just came across this article and thought bone marrow might be a good category and other things depending on how far you want to go.  something like Ripple could be helpful too.

the potential for things to be involuntary concerns me though.

http://www.latimes.com/health/fl-nbcol-bone-marrow-brochu-0304-20110304,0,397693.column

also i was thinking of a movie i saw a long time ago, a scene involves a bunch of asian guys, and a lottery.  When the guy's name is pulled he wins something he had requested, but has to give up something random.  I think one of the characters has to give up an eye, but his daughter gets a kidney. or something like that. any one know the name of the movie?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 04, 2011, 09:28:45 PM
not sure how to keep anon (if your gonna use a dr.), but just came across this article and thought bone marrow might be a good category and other things depending on how far you want to go.  something like Ripple could be helpful too.

the potential for things to be involuntary concerns me though.

http://www.latimes.com/health/fl-nbcol-bone-marrow-brochu-0304-20110304,0,397693.column

also i was thinking of a movie i saw a long time ago, a scene involves a bunch of asian guys, and a lottery.  When the guy's name is pulled he wins something he had requested, but has to give up something random.  I think one of the characters has to give up an eye, but his daughter gets a kidney. or something like that. any one know the name of the movie?
Reminds me of Repo! The Genetic Opera.

If you never worked to obtain your organs, why should you get anything in exchange for them? If your spare organ will save someone's life, should that person become your slave after he gets your organ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on March 04, 2011, 09:46:26 PM
If you never worked to obtain your organs, why should you get anything in exchange for them? If your spare organ will save someone's life, should that person become your slave after he gets your organ?

What exactly are you saying? I shouldn't be allowed to sell my organs? My spare organs should be taken against my will?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mndrix on March 04, 2011, 11:18:47 PM
Cool site.  I can imagine many uses for a truly anonymous market.  It reminds me of friends who tried to import prohibited books into East Germany back in the day.  Anyway, my only suggestion is that someone sell USD and/or EUR cash on the site.  Selling cash could help vendors bootstrap their reputation and buyers refine their delivery mechanism without risk from possibly illegal goods.

A resilient, anonymous system for cashing out of Bitcoin could also be useful if pressure ever comes down on the Bitcoin economy and its main exchanges.  Of course, #bitcoin-otc handles that pretty well too.  The more the merrier.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on March 04, 2011, 11:25:58 PM
my only suggestion is that someone sell USD and/or EUR cash on the site.  Selling cash could help vendors bootstrap their reputation and buyers refine their delivery mechanism without risk from possibly illegal goods.

That's a great idea. I might look into offering this service.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 8668 on March 05, 2011, 04:48:10 AM
I heard about a guy who made a very small purchase of something quasi-legal here. He knows my cousin's bosses girlfriend. When I hear how it goes I shall report back


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wb3 on March 05, 2011, 05:04:03 AM
I heard about a guy who made a very small purchase of something quasi-legal here. He knows my cousin's bosses girlfriend. When I hear how it goes I shall report back

the u-232 is two doors down on the left. Upper shelf, in a glass jar. suggest you bring some lead (Pb).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on March 05, 2011, 08:11:07 AM
I heard about a guy who made a very small purchase of something quasi-legal here. He knows my cousin's bosses girlfriend. When I hear how it goes I shall report back

the u-232 is two doors down on the left. Upper shelf, in a glass jar. suggest you bring some lead (Pb).

u-232?  I'm not familiar with that one, it must be rare.  U-235 is depleted, and I've held it in my hand.  It's not particularly dangerous, but I made sure to wash my hands before eating.  U-238 is the hot stuff.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wb3 on March 05, 2011, 08:27:07 AM
It was a joke, but probably a bad one. We will probably have FBI GPS trackers on our cars in the morning.

I wonder how much a FBI GPS tracker goes for in BTC  ;D



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on March 05, 2011, 08:44:09 AM
It was a joke, but probably a bad one. We will probably have FBI GPS trackers on our cars in the morning.

I wonder how much a FBI GPS tracker goes for in BTC  ;D



Doubt it.  Despite popular opinion, it's not illegal to posses uranium in small quantities.  Regulated, yes.  Prohibited, no.  That's just Hollywood.  Much like firearm suppressors.  Difficult to get, and expensive, but not prohibited.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ronaldmaustin on March 05, 2011, 08:47:59 AM
Here is a list of things banned on e-bay.  Much of it is banned for obvious reasons, but some of it should be allowed.  Some of these might expand the types of products offered . . .


      Adult Only category
 

      alcohol (see also wine)


      animals and wildlife products – examples include live animals, mounted specimens, and ivory
 

      art 
    *

      artifacts, grave-related items, and Native American arts and crafts
    *

      catalytic converters and test pipes
    *

      cell phone (wireless) service contracts
    *

      charity or fundraising listings
    *

      clothing, used
    *

      contracts
    *

      cosmetics, used
    *

      counterfeit currency and stamps
    *

      credit cards
    *

      currency, selling
    *

      drugs and drug paraphernalia
    *

      drugs, describing drugs or drug-like substances
    *

      electronics equipment – examples include cable TV de-scramblers, radar scanners, and traffic signal control devices
    *

      electronic surveillance equipment – examples include wiretapping devices and telephone bugging devices
    *

      embargoed goods and prohibited countries – examples include items from Cuba
    *

      event tickets
    *

      firearms, weapons, and knives – examples include pepper spray, replicas, and stun guns (see also military items)
    *

      food and healthcare items
    *

      gift cards
    *

      government documents, IDs, and licenses
    *

      government, transit, and shipping-related items – examples include airplane operations manuals, subway employee uniforms, and U.S. Postal Service (USPS) mailbags
    *

      hazardous materials – examples include batteries, fireworks, and Freon
    *

      human parts and remains
    *

      importation of goods into the United States – examples include CDs that were intended only for distribution in a certain country
    *

      international trading
    *

      items encouraging illegal activity – examples include an eBook describing how to create methamphetamine
    *

      lockpicking devices
    *

      lottery tickets
    *

      mailing lists and personal information
    *

      manufacturers' coupons
    *

      medical devices – examples include contact lenses, pacemakers, and surgical instruments
    *

      military items (see also firearms, weapons, and knives)                         
    *

      multi-level marketing, pyramid, and matrix programs
    *

      offensive material – examples include ethnically or racially offensive material and Nazi memorabilia
    *

      pesticides
    *

      plants and seeds                           
    *

      police-related items
    *

      political memorabilia (reproduction)
    *

      postage meters
    *

      prescription drugs
    *

      prohibited services
    *

      real estate
    *

      recalled items
    *

      slot machines
    *

      stamps
    *

      stocks and other securities
    *

      stolen property and property with removed serial numbers
    *

      surveillance equipment
    *

      tobacco
    *

      travel
    *

      weeds (see plants and seeds)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 05, 2011, 12:25:38 PM
i'm afraid to even be posting here  :-X

brb, a black van just pulled up and two men in suits are at the door...


http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110304/10254213366/student-who-found-gps-device-his-car-due-to-reddit-comment-sues-fbi.shtml (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110304/10254213366/student-who-found-gps-device-his-car-due-to-reddit-comment-sues-fbi.shtml)


 :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 05, 2011, 03:46:35 PM
It was a joke, but probably a bad one. We will probably have FBI GPS trackers on our cars in the morning.

I wonder how much a FBI GPS tracker goes for in BTC  ;D


Bitcoin Gadgets sells a GPS jammer. http://www.bitcoingadgets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_12&products_id=20


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on March 05, 2011, 03:57:05 PM
If wine has been banned on eBay I may think of it.
A bottle here can go as low as 1,50 €  ;D - and I'm not talking of cheap wine.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 05, 2011, 04:31:59 PM
It's too bad that Silk Road doesn't have an auction mechanism. I'd like that, if I hypothetically had any interest in Silk Road to begin with.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: satamusic on March 05, 2011, 07:12:46 PM
gps jammers cheaper on dealextreme


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 8668 on March 05, 2011, 11:08:37 PM
I heard about a guy who made a very small purchase of something quasi-legal here. He knows my cousin's bosses girlfriend. When I hear how it goes I shall report back

14 hours and there has been zero response regarding purchase (aside from the Confirmations my BTC were sent)

I realize it's been a very short period of time, but any sort of acknowledgment would be nice. 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on March 05, 2011, 11:25:54 PM
14 hours and there has been zero response regarding purchase (aside from the Confirmations my BTC were sent)

I realize it's been a very short period of time, but any sort of acknowledgment would be nice. 

I like the idea of a digitally signed receipt. I got one recently and it contained the transaction amount, my pgp key fingerprint, and the transaction hash, signed by the receipt issuer's private key.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 06, 2011, 02:37:13 AM
Maybe a courier network to ferry packages around is a good idea.

People order something and the package goes through several hops between the sender and the receiver with the couriers using encrypted messaging to receive address details.

Think of onion routing but in a physical sense .


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: LMGTFY on March 06, 2011, 01:09:05 PM
I heard about a guy who made a very small purchase of something quasi-legal here. He knows my cousin's bosses girlfriend. When I hear how it goes I shall report back

14 hours and there has been zero response regarding purchase (aside from the Confirmations my BTC were sent)

Your BTC, or your cousin's boss's girlfriend's friend's BTC?! :-)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 06, 2011, 03:59:37 PM
14 hours and there has been zero response regarding purchase (aside from the Confirmations my BTC were sent)

I realize it's been a very short period of time, but any sort of acknowledgment would be nice. 
It's probably better to keep communication to a minimum.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MacRohard on March 06, 2011, 04:46:59 PM
14 hours and there has been zero response regarding purchase (aside from the Confirmations my BTC were sent)

I realize it's been a very short period of time, but any sort of acknowledgment would be nice. 
It's probably better to keep communication to a minimum.

maybe some kind of tracking number you can use to see if they've dispatched the order yet.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on March 06, 2011, 06:48:49 PM
Maybe a courier network to ferry packages around is a good idea.

People order something and the package goes through several hops between the sender and the receiver with the couriers using encrypted messaging to receive address details.

Think of onion routing but in a physical sense .

Could be done, but it would be expensive, and still very risky to the actual participants.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wb3 on March 06, 2011, 06:57:13 PM
Why, people can send stuff anonymously now, through the USPS. The recipient isn't anonymous but the sender is. But a lot of people use the UPS stores to receive mail and packages, semi-anonymously. Of course if your going to send xlpossives or something stupid, it wouldn't be so anonymous, but for mundane items, it is pretty good.


If you apply that to the physical onion routing idea,  A-B anonymous, B-C anonymous, D-E anonymous, E couldn't get back to A, but A could get to E. But then he already new E.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 06, 2011, 07:27:56 PM
I thought this thread got killed!  Glad to see there is a place for it at bitcoin.org.

14 hours and there has been zero response regarding purchase (aside from the Confirmations my BTC were sent)

I realize it's been a very short period of time, but any sort of acknowledgment would be nice. 
It's probably better to keep communication to a minimum.

Don't worry 8668.  The next message you get will be to let you know that your order has shipped.  If you want to message me on Silk Road, we can talk in more detail.  I don't want to get into too many specifics on this forum.

I've read through the thread up to this point, and I really appreciate everyone's feedback.  I'm totally open to Silk Road evolving to include more than just drugs.  It's just an obvious place to start.  ronaldmaustin's post about banned items on eBay is a great place to start thinking about what else could be sold there.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 8668 on March 06, 2011, 08:22:02 PM
I thought this thread got killed!  Glad to see there is a place for it at bitcoin.org.

14 hours and there has been zero response regarding purchase (aside from the Confirmations my BTC were sent)

I realize it's been a very short period of time, but any sort of acknowledgment would be nice. 
It's probably better to keep communication to a minimum.

Don't worry 8668.  The next message you get will be to let you know that your order has shipped.  If you want to message me on Silk Road, we can talk in more detail.  I don't want to get into too many specifics on this forum.

I've read through the thread up to this point, and I really appreciate everyone's feedback.  I'm totally open to Silk Road evolving to include more than just drugs.  It's just an obvious place to start.  ronaldmaustin's post about banned items on eBay is a great place to start thinking about what else could be sold there.



10-4


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 06, 2011, 10:41:29 PM
ronaldmaustin's post about banned items on eBay is a great place to start thinking about what else could be sold there.

I'm surprised someone hasn't yet offered a service to buy people's numbers for PowerBall or other state lottery.
  e.g. http://www.powerball.com

I don't play personally, but would be thrilled to see Bitcoin help clear the line in front of me at the convenience store.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wb3 on March 06, 2011, 10:55:23 PM
ronaldmaustin's post about banned items on eBay is a great place to start thinking about what else could be sold there.

I'm surprised someone hasn't yet offered a service to buy people's numbers for PowerBall or other state lottery.
  e.g. http://www.powerball.com

I don't play personally, but would be thrilled to see Bitcoin help clear the line in front of me at the convenience store.


Unfortunately, possession is 9/10ths of the law. It would work for all the losers, but if you ever won the big won, good luck getting the ticket receipt from the true purchaser. Even with a pre-signed contract, he would probably fight it, he will have (currently: $40 Million ) to hire Lawyers, you will have a claim and maybe a lawyer.

What surprises me is why PowerBall themselves don't sell through the Net. Just tie the C/C Hash info to the Receipt/email to prove ownership. Only those with the right C/C can claim.  And their be no doubt who bought the ticket. Even if fraudsters used a stolen C/C, I bet the true owner would say: Thanks for stealing my C/C and buying Lotto tickets.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 07, 2011, 01:31:09 AM
I'm surprised someone hasn't yet offered a service to buy people's numbers for PowerBall or other state lottery.
  e.g. http://www.powerball.com

Even with a pre-signed contract, he would probably fight it, he will have (currently: $40 Million ) to hire Lawyers, you will have a claim and maybe a lawyer.

I had thought of that and was supposing the problem could be resolved by mailing out the tickets purchased before the day that the lottery is drawn.  Then I think of all the holes in that strategy as well and now I know why nobody yet offers a service to buy people's numbers for PowerBall (in addition to the obvious one where it probably isn't something that be done legally.)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 07, 2011, 02:05:58 AM
I'm surprised someone hasn't yet offered a service to buy people's numbers for PowerBall or other state lottery.
  e.g. http://www.powerball.com

Even with a pre-signed contract, he would probably fight it, he will have (currently: $40 Million ) to hire Lawyers, you will have a claim and maybe a lawyer.

I had thought of that and was supposing the problem could be resolved by mailing out the tickets purchased before the day that the lottery is drawn.  Then I think of all the holes in that strategy as well and now I know why nobody yet offers a service to buy people's numbers for PowerBall (in addition to the obvious one where it probably isn't something that be done legally.)

Scratch lotto is  the obvious choice if you want to mail tickets around.  Then youre limited  to the same state you bought them in as you usually cant claim them out of state. Maybe a lotto syndicate would be better where many people share the purchase of tickets and any prizes get shared between the members. 



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on March 07, 2011, 02:55:50 AM

How about a worldwide Lotto in bitcoins?

Who wants to run one?

If you want to buy a ticket you send bitcoin to an escrow account, along with a receiving address for possible prize monies. In the escrow, the total pool make-up for the current week is publicly accessible and at weeks end the numbers are drawn.

Make the random number generator linked to the randomness of the mining of blocks, last number of weekly transaction total .... or something like that for added interest in bitcoin.

Could start real small like 0.01 btc per ticket or so to get broad interest from people who got some from bitcoin faucet and then think now what the heck am I gonna blow my 0.05 bitcoin on?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 8668 on March 09, 2011, 02:22:24 PM
Just for the record, SilkRoad has no apparent ties to any of the underground drug trading forums. For this reason alone I do not trust them. If they want my trust they need to say who can vouch for them or what forums they have been on. Even if they post a hash of the forums name and a random string of their choice it will be nice, then people from drug forums can compare forums they have been on + the random string and look for a match. This way people can learn if silkroad is on any trusted forums and silkroad doesn't need to leak any forum names. Honestly a vendor site like this with no backing from the forums I automatically am distrutful of, although they could be legitimate regardless.

i felt the same way. that's why i restricted my purchase to something legal and something i could easily obtain a prescription for (again) if need be.

regardless, i never received any word that product shipped, anticipating refund in next day.

and as far as everything else offered, i wouldnt buy pot online if it was the drought of '02 again


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JesusTheCaffeine on March 10, 2011, 02:45:23 AM

How about a worldwide Lotto in bitcoins?

Who wants to run one?

If you want to buy a ticket you send bitcoin to an escrow account, along with a receiving address for possible prize monies. In the escrow, the total pool make-up for the current week is publicly accessible and at weeks end the numbers are drawn.

Make the random number generator linked to the randomness of the mining of blocks, last number of weekly transaction total .... or something like that for added interest in bitcoin.

Could start real small like 0.01 btc per ticket or so to get broad interest from people who got some from bitcoin faucet and then think now what the heck am I gonna blow my 0.05 bitcoin on?

That's a great idea, we just need a trusted member to start it and it'll be sweet.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 10, 2011, 11:13:26 PM
Just for the record, SilkRoad has no apparent ties to any of the underground drug trading forums. For this reason alone I do not trust them. If they want my trust they need to say who can vouch for them or what forums they have been on. Even if they post a hash of the forums name and a random string of their choice it will be nice, then people from drug forums can compare forums they have been on + the random string and look for a match. This way people can learn if silkroad is on any trusted forums and silkroad doesn't need to leak any forum names. Honestly a vendor site like this with no backing from the forums I automatically am distrutful of, although they could be legitimate regardless.

i felt the same way. that's why i restricted my purchase to something legal and something i could easily obtain a prescription for (again) if need be.

regardless, i never received any word that product shipped, anticipating refund in next day.

and as far as everything else offered, i wouldnt buy pot online if it was the drought of '02 again

I'm very sorry your seller flaked 8668.  Hopefully you were pleased with our refund policy, though.  Your's was actually the first unfulfilled order so far, so I am confident if you placed another that it would be filled.

Has anyone else from here tried placing an order?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mndrix on March 10, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Your's was actually the first unfulfilled order so far, so I am confident if you placed another that it would be filled.

Has anyone else from here tried placing an order?

I haven't placed an order (I don't even drink tea, let alone use LSD :)), but I was impressed with your internal escrow arrangement.  It seems like exactly the right way to handle these transactions.

I also had one question about the escrow mechanics: what happens if a buyer ends up in jail and can't affirm the shipment arrived?  Does the seller still get paid?  Sorry if I missed the documentation.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 10, 2011, 11:51:57 PM
I also had one question about the escrow mechanics: what happens if a buyer ends up in jail and can't affirm the shipment arrived?  Does the seller still get paid?  Sorry if I missed the documentation.
What about when a seller just doesn't respond?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2011, 02:32:41 AM
Would anyone buy cigarettes for bitcoin ?

Not that I would buy or sell them - I dont smoke either   :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MacRohard on March 11, 2011, 11:42:38 AM
Would anyone buy cigarettes for bitcoin ?

Not that I would buy or sell them - I dont smoke either   :)

If the price were competitive, I'm sure people would..


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2011, 12:15:21 PM
Would anyone buy cigarettes for bitcoin ?

Not that I would buy or sell them - I dont smoke either   :)

If the price were competitive, I'm sure people would..

Even if they fell off the back of a truck ?

 :D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Geographer on March 11, 2011, 03:33:02 PM
anyone else getting an error while trying to go on the site?


Quote
The following error occurred while trying to access http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/:

504 Connect to ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: SOCKS error: TTL expired


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 11, 2011, 03:47:28 PM
I think that may be more of a problem with Tor than the site.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on March 12, 2011, 04:18:34 AM
Would anyone buy cigarettes for bitcoin ?

Not that I would buy or sell them - I dont smoke either   :)

If the price were competitive, I'm sure people would..

Pay Kentucky taxes instead of Illinois taxes?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mizerydearia on March 12, 2011, 11:50:08 AM
Maybe a courier network to ferry packages around is a good idea.

People order something and the package goes through several hops between the sender and the receiver with the couriers using encrypted messaging to receive address details.

Think of onion routing but in a physical sense .

Maybe P2P in a physical sense?  e.g. send the package to any other peer in the community, and if that peer is the final peer destined to receive the package, they can keep it, otherwise they should update a kind of status and send it out again. ^_^




ronaldmaustin's post about banned items on eBay is a great place to start thinking about what else could be sold there.

Suggestions: Alli (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/food.html), military items/instruments, information, manuals, weapons, vehicles, armor/uniforms (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/military-items.html), firearms, weapons and knives (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html), offensive material (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/offensive.html), replicas, counterfeit items, unauthorized copies of items: handbags, mobile devices, bootlegs, sunglasses, wallets, watches, fake autographs, pirated movies, videos, music, photos, software, video games (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html), alcohol (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/alcohol.html), animals and wildlife products (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/wildlife.html), art (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-art.html), artifacts (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/artifacts.html), catalytic converters and test pipes (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/catalytic-converters.html), cell phone service contracts (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/cellphone-services.html), contracts (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/contracts.html), used cosmetics (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/used-cosmetics.html), counterfeit currency and stamps (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html), stamps (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-stamps.html), credit cards (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/credit-cards.html), electronic surveillance equipment (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/surveillance.html), embargoed goods (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/embargo.html), event tickets (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/event-tickets.html), government documents, IDs, and licenses (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/government-ids-licenses.html), hazardous materials (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/hazardous-materials.html), human parts and remains (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/remains.html), items encouraging illegal activity (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/encouraging-illegal-activity.html), lockpicking devices (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/lockpicking.html), lottery tickets (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/lottery.html), mailing lists and personal information (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/maillists.html), coupons (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/manufacturers-coupons.html), medical devices (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/medical-devices.html), pesticides (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/pesticides.html), plants and seeds (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/plantsandseeds.html), police related items (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/police.html), political memorabilia (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/politicalmem.html), postage meters (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/postage.html), real estate (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/real-estate.html), recalled items (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/recalled.html), slot machines (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/slot-machines.html), stocks & other securities (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/stocks.html), stolen property and property with removed serial numbers (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/stolen.html), tobacco (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/tobacco.html)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 12, 2011, 12:35:16 PM
Maybe a courier network to ferry packages around is a good idea.

People order something and the package goes through several hops between the sender and the receiver with the couriers using encrypted messaging to receive address details.

Think of onion routing but in a physical sense .

Maybe P2P in a physical sense?  e.g. send the package to any other peer in the community, and if that peer is the final peer destined to receive the package, they can keep it, otherwise they should update a kind of status and send it out again. ^_^




ronaldmaustin's post about banned items on eBay is a great place to start thinking about what else could be sold there.

Suggestions: Alli (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/food.html), military items/instruments, information, manuals, weapons, vehicles, armor/uniforms (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/military-items.html), firearms, weapons and knives (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html), offensive material (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/offensive.html), replicas, counterfeit items, unauthorized copies of items: handbags, mobile devices, bootlegs, sunglasses, wallets, watches, fake autographs, pirated movies, videos, music, photos, software, video games (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html), alcohol (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/alcohol.html), animals and wildlife products (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/wildlife.html), art (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-art.html), artifacts (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/artifacts.html), catalytic converters and test pipes (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/catalytic-converters.html), cell phone service contracts (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/cellphone-services.html), contracts (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/contracts.html), used cosmetics (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/used-cosmetics.html), counterfeit currency and stamps (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html), stamps (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-stamps.html), credit cards (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/credit-cards.html), electronic surveillance equipment (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/surveillance.html), embargoed goods (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/embargo.html), event tickets (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/event-tickets.html), government documents, IDs, and licenses (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/government-ids-licenses.html), hazardous materials (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/hazardous-materials.html), human parts and remains (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/remains.html), items encouraging illegal activity (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/encouraging-illegal-activity.html), lockpicking devices (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/lockpicking.html), lottery tickets (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/lottery.html), mailing lists and personal information (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/maillists.html), coupons (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/manufacturers-coupons.html), medical devices (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/medical-devices.html), pesticides (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/pesticides.html), plants and seeds (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/plantsandseeds.html), police related items (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/police.html), political memorabilia (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/politicalmem.html), postage meters (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/postage.html), real estate (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/real-estate.html), recalled items (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/recalled.html), slot machines (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/slot-machines.html), stocks & other securities (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/stocks.html), stolen property and property with removed serial numbers (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/stolen.html), tobacco (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/tobacco.html)



Yes that...and also buyer and seller proxies so the person buying and the person selling has relays in betwee. These proxies should be assigned to different buyers and sellers each time. This way the buyer doesnt know the seller and vice versa.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: psydelicious on March 12, 2011, 02:31:48 PM
Just wanted to chip in with my experience with this site, which was very positive.

I ordered LSD tabs from the seller 'psynom' on Silk Road on sunday. I went with him because I found one post on their forums stating the guy was legit. He advertised shipping from EU.

So I place the order, no order confirmation or indication that the order was really completed (as someone already mentioned - silk road is 'working on it' I hear).

The next day I get a message on the site that the tabs have been shipped. After this I can see my order as an active order from the 'messages' screen, and get options to confirm whether the delivery took place.

On Friday, I got the tabs. They were shipped in a regular envelope, quite innocent-looking. Inside was a hardcover greeting card, inside which the tabs were taped in plastic. The envelope was indeed mailed from a core EU country. Without giving specifics, 5 days was surprisingly fast for the postal service here.


So, armed with our acid tabs, me and some friends tried it out yesterday. It was LSD alright. I've only tripped once before, that dosage was not very strong (I just felt a borderline effect from 1 tab that time, though it was pleasant). This one was a bit stronger, but I still wound up taking 4 tabs over a 4 hour period. Onset started about 45 minutes after taking the hit.

I won't describe my experience here in any more detail (unless someone really wants to know, I suppose...), but suffice to say I had one of the best times of my life.


In conclusion, silk road is the victory of decentralised cipherpunk thinking over traditional methods of blocking trade. If being able to buy drugs anonymously over the internet isn't a killer app for bitcoin, I don't know what is. I was already watching the bitcoin project for some time, but through this, I have spread bitcoin to several friends who wouldn't otherwise have likely been exposed to bitcoin - and I'm pretty sure they'll be buying some in the future. :)



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 12, 2011, 05:52:35 PM
Just wanted to chip in with my experience with this site, which was very positive.

I ordered LSD tabs from the seller 'psynom' on Silk Road on sunday. I went with him because I found one post on their forums stating the guy was legit. He advertised shipping from EU.

So I place the order, no order confirmation or indication that the order was really completed (as someone already mentioned - silk road is 'working on it' I hear).

The next day I get a message on the site that the tabs have been shipped. After this I can see my order as an active order from the 'messages' screen, and get options to confirm whether the delivery took place.

On Friday, I got the tabs. They were shipped in a regular envelope, quite innocent-looking. Inside was a hardcover greeting card, inside which the tabs were taped in plastic. The envelope was indeed mailed from a core EU country. Without giving specifics, 5 days was surprisingly fast for the postal service here.


So, armed with our acid tabs, me and some friends tried it out yesterday. It was LSD alright. I've only tripped once before, that dosage was not very strong (I just felt a borderline effect from 1 tab that time, though it was pleasant). This one was a bit stronger, but I still wound up taking 4 tabs over a 4 hour period. Onset started about 45 minutes after taking the hit.

I won't describe my experience here in any more detail (unless someone really wants to know, I suppose...), but suffice to say I had one of the best times of my life.


In conclusion, silk road is the victory of decentralised cipherpunk thinking over traditional methods of blocking trade. If being able to buy drugs anonymously over the internet isn't a killer app for bitcoin, I don't know what is. I was already watching the bitcoin project for some time, but through this, I have spread bitcoin to several friends who wouldn't otherwise have likely been exposed to bitcoin - and I'm pretty sure they'll be buying some in the future. :)


Cool story, bro.

Trolling aside, drug dealing is currently Bitcoin's killer app. No reason it can't  have more than one, of course.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on March 13, 2011, 02:46:51 PM
Questions for silkroad:

1. Do you truecrypt your server's hard drives ?
2. Do your sellers support GPS GeoCaching ?

EDIT:
And finally:

How do you know that one of the sellers is not a FBI/CIA/Interpol/MiB/Whatever agent ?
Do you verify these people yourself ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 13, 2011, 10:51:20 PM
I also had one question about the escrow mechanics: what happens if a buyer ends up in jail and can't affirm the shipment arrived?  Does the seller still get paid?  Sorry if I missed the documentation.
What about when a seller just doesn't respond?

So here's how it works currently:
1. buyer places and order
2. funds held in escrow
3a. seller confirms shipment
3b. seller never responds, buyer's funds are returned
4a. buyer confirms delivery and seller's funds are released
4b. buyer claims that the order never came.  Buyer and seller have a few days to come to a resolution.  If no resolution is made, a silk road admin will review the case and make a judgement, which is usually to split the funds in escrow 50/50 (to date, only one order has come to this and is currently in the resolution process)
4c. buyer never responds, funds are released to seller

The details of how long each phase takes will be different once the automated payment processor and shopping cart features are launched, so I won't publish them here to avoid confusion down the road.  For now, though, when you place an order, it is all spelled out.

Questions for silkroad:

1. Do you truecrypt your server's hard drives ?
2. Do your sellers support GPS GeoCaching ?

EDIT:
And finally:

How do you know that one of the sellers is not a FBI/CIA/Interpol/MiB/Whatever agent ?
Do you verify these people yourself ?

In response to #1, I am reluctant to reveal any details about the server until I think through how it might be a security threat.  Please rest assured that security for silk road admin and all of the users is the top priority.

GPS GeoCaching is not currently supported, though I really like the idea.  I don't think the userbase is big enough to support it right now because buyer and seller would need to be near each other geographically.

The truth is, we don't know the identities of any user on Silk Road.  Sellers have very little chance of detection if a buyer is really a government agent, and the best defense for a buyer is to deny ordering anything (anyone can send anyone else anything through the mail).  We have a guide on the site and a forum topic dedicated to the best way to protect ones self when receiving an order.  Authorities typically won't investigate customers either, they are after the producers, brokers, and dealers. 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: koin on March 14, 2011, 02:10:44 AM
In conclusion, silk road is the victory of decentralised cipherpunk thinking over traditional methods of blocking trade. If being able to buy drugs anonymously over the internet isn't a killer app for bitcoin, I don't know what is.

only a matter of time some homicidal maniac sends you lsd laced with some lethal chemical

fool


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 14, 2011, 05:31:50 AM
In conclusion, silk road is the victory of decentralised cipherpunk thinking over traditional methods of blocking trade. If being able to buy drugs anonymously over the internet isn't a killer app for bitcoin, I don't know what is.

only a matter of time some homicidal maniac sends you lsd laced with some lethal chemical

fool

Dont buy it then.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: QuantumMechanic on March 14, 2011, 07:55:17 AM
In conclusion, silk road is the victory of decentralised cipherpunk thinking over traditional methods of blocking trade. If being able to buy drugs anonymously over the internet isn't a killer app for bitcoin, I don't know what is.

only a matter of time some homicidal maniac sends you lsd laced with some lethal chemical

fool
And it wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened either: http://www.slate.com/id/2245188/ (http://www.slate.com/id/2245188/)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on March 14, 2011, 08:01:33 AM

Yeah, better watch out, homicidal maniacs are more common than drug dealers these days, (I heard it on TV).

And all cocaine could be anthrax, MJ is laced with toxic insecticide, crossing the street is more dangerous than flying, sex makes yer dick fall off and tomorrow you'll possibly be wiped out by a tsunami ... in fact stay at home with your mom and you'll be just fine.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Cryptoman on March 14, 2011, 06:12:32 PM
And it wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened either: http://www.slate.com/id/2245188/ (http://www.slate.com/id/2245188/)

Quote from: Slate
Officially, the special denaturing program ended only once the 18th Amendment was repealed in December 1933.


This is bullshit.  They are still poisoning alcohol sold without taxation or licensing with methanol.  They're from the government, and they're there to help.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: carp on March 14, 2011, 06:19:21 PM

Yeah, better watch out, homicidal maniacs are more common than drug dealers these days, (I heard it on TV).

And all cocaine could be anthrax, MJ is laced with toxic insecticide, crossing the street is more dangerous than flying, sex makes yer dick fall off and tomorrow you'll possibly be wiped out by a tsunami ... in fact stay at home with your mom and you'll be just fine.

Um.... crossing the street probably is more dangerous than flying. Actually... walking home drunk from the bar is more dangerous than driving home drunk. (You don't hear that one advertised a lot)

Oh, and staying at home would lead to a sedentary lifestyle... which will kill you.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on March 14, 2011, 08:41:05 PM
This is bullshit.  They are still poisoning alcohol sold without taxation or licensing with methanol.  They're from the government, and they're there to help.

[Citation needed] ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on March 14, 2011, 08:48:39 PM
[Citation needed] ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

It's a way for governments to collect a sin tax on ethanol for consumption without raising the price of ethanol for other uses. In other words, bullshit.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on March 14, 2011, 09:14:48 PM
[Citation needed] ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

It's a way for governments to collect a sin tax on ethanol for consumption without raising the price of ethanol for other uses. In other words, bullshit.

Yes, I (and everyone in my country) know what Denatured Alcohol is ;). Actually, i have a bottle at my house right now - I use it to start fire in the stove.

So you mean the excise tax - taxing the use of drugs... I was wondering what was that about.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on March 14, 2011, 09:55:16 PM
Yes, I (and everyone in my country) know what Denatured Alcohol is ;). Actually, i have a bottle at my house right now - I use it to start fire in the stove.

So you mean the excise tax - taxing the use of drugs... I was wondering what was that about.

Well, the point is that denatured alcohol would not exist if it were not for the desire to tax alcohol consumption. For every other use, plain ethanol is preferable. It's only when you want to create two classes of ethanol "for consumption", "not for consumption", as a way to limit consumption without affecting the non consumptive uses, that denatured alcohol is useful.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 15, 2011, 12:59:14 AM
Well, the point is that denatured alcohol would not exist if it were not for the desire to tax alcohol consumption. For every other use, plain ethanol is preferable. It's only when you want to create two classes of ethanol "for consumption", "not for consumption", as a way to limit consumption without affecting the non consumptive uses, that denatured alcohol is useful.
Kind of like how the government puts dye in diesel for home use but not for vehicles. Pretty grimy.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: casascius on March 15, 2011, 05:28:06 AM
Scratch lotto is  the obvious choice if you want to mail tickets around.  Then youre limited  to the same state you bought them in as you usually cant claim them out of state. Maybe a lotto syndicate would be better where many people share the purchase of tickets and any prizes get shared between the members. 

Scratch lotto can be claimed out of state... at least in my experience.

I live in Utah (no scratch lotto), last time I drove through Montana I picked up a string of scratch lotto tickets just to keep us occupied on the road...had about four winners... mailed them to the Montana lottery board and they sent my check to Utah, where all forms of gambling are totally forbidden by law.

Of course, this could vary by state - but I would guess that it's the purchase of scratch lotto that's illegal, not the redemption of ones legally purchased.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on March 15, 2011, 07:47:05 AM
The site seems to be down for me, when I am trying to reach it via Tor.

I can get on core.onion and the hidden-wiki, but when I am trying the URL of your hidden-service I am always getting a timeout.

Last time I tried http://tor2web.org/ it worked, now even this doesn't work.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: DarkMatter on March 15, 2011, 08:36:32 AM
The site seems to be down for me, when I am trying to reach it via Tor.

I can get on core.onion and the hidden-wiki, but when I am trying the URL of your hidden-service I am always getting a timeout.

Last time I tried http://tor2web.org/ it worked, now even this doesn't work.

Same here, still offline atm.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ricochet on March 16, 2011, 03:10:14 AM
The site appears up for me when accessed via Tor.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on March 16, 2011, 11:02:27 AM
Sometimes it seems to be available via tor2web, but using "tor-browser_en-US" from torprojekt.org I still get a timeout. Yesterday a friend of mine, living in a different state of Germany using the same package (only 4 windows, instead of linux)got on the site.

Is that a tor-related problem?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: DarkMatter on March 16, 2011, 11:44:49 AM
Is that a tor-related problem?

I suppose so.
Still timing out here.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on March 16, 2011, 02:18:48 PM
Is that a tor-related problem?

I suppose so.
Still timing out here.

Unconfirmed.

I tried 4 times on different weekdays, and it always works for me.
Stop using tor2web, install a proper tor like everyone else.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FooDSt4mP on March 16, 2011, 02:20:59 PM
Is that a tor-related problem?

I suppose so.
Still timing out here.

Unconfirmed.

I tried 4 times on different weekdays, and it always works for me.
Stop using tor2web, install a proper tor like everyone else.

He said it works via tor2web, and not via the browser bundle... but thanks for giving advice without carefully reading the situation.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: carp on March 16, 2011, 11:23:14 PM
Is that a tor-related problem?

I suppose so.
Still timing out here.

Unconfirmed.

I tried 4 times on different weekdays, and it always works for me.
Stop using tor2web, install a proper tor like everyone else.

He said it works via tor2web, and not via the browser bundle... but thanks for giving advice without carefully reading the situation.

I saw this and it bothered me. I found I had the same problem, perplexing. Now I have a solution. Check your logs (see vidalia "advanced" tab). Look for time errors. Looks like tor doesn't handle DST changes well.

I restarted tor, and now I can connect to this, and some other sites that I was having issues with. Oh, before you restart, check your system time!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 16, 2011, 11:52:34 PM
I plan to make a purchase here.

What is the average delivery time?

That depends on who you buy from, where they are located, and where you are located.  Vendors are required to ship within 72 hours and many will ship the same or next day.  If you live in the same country as the seller, turnaround can be as short as a 3-4 days.

Is that a tor-related problem?

I suppose so.
Still timing out here.

Unconfirmed.

I tried 4 times on different weekdays, and it always works for me.
Stop using tor2web, install a proper tor like everyone else.

He said it works via tor2web, and not via the browser bundle... but thanks for giving advice without carefully reading the situation.

I saw this and it bothered me. I found I had the same problem, perplexing. Now I have a solution. Check your logs (see vidalia "advanced" tab). Look for time errors. Looks like tor doesn't handle DST changes well.

I restarted tor, and now I can connect to this, and some other sites that I was having issues with. Oh, before you restart, check your system time!

Is anyone still having connection issues?  Traffic to the site died off by about 30% a couple of days ago, couldn't figure out why.  Did daylight savings time mess up tor?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: psydelicious on March 17, 2011, 12:01:15 AM
Is anyone still having connection issues?  Traffic to the site died off by about 30% a couple of days ago, couldn't figure out why.  Did daylight savings time mess up tor?

I am, actually. It's worked fine for me up until now, but I've not been able to connect all night. I either get a TTL expired error or a blank page in firefox, and my tor log is full of "[notice] Tried for 120 seconds to get a connection to [scrubbed]:80. Giving up. (waiting for circuit)"

I just tried successfully to connect to some other tor hidden sites like the hidden wiki. Hopefully it's just a temporary problem.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: theymos on March 17, 2011, 12:07:32 AM
It's also not working for me. Probably just temporary Tor problems.

Code:
Mar 16 19:07:17.203 [notice] Tried for 120 seconds to get a connection to [scrub
bed]:80. Giving up. (waiting for circuit)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FTL_Ian on March 17, 2011, 01:18:33 AM
Thanks for this awesome idea, silkroad.  I am so impressed, I promoted it on my national radio program tonight.  Hope you don't mind the publicity.

I was able to access the site last night, but now am getting: 504 Connect to ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: SOCKS error: host unreachable

I am using the Tor Browser as your site suggests.

Looking forward to hearing more positive experiences from users.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on March 17, 2011, 01:27:42 AM
It's also not working for me. Probably just temporary Tor problems.

Code:
Mar 16 19:07:17.203 [notice] Tried for 120 seconds to get a connection to [scrub
bed]:80. Giving up. (waiting for circuit)

My TOR node usually needs about 5-10 minutes to properly "heat up" and get connected to other nodes and it that time no page works for me.
After that, it runs normally.

Maybe you all should start the note and let it work for some time, and try it later.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on March 17, 2011, 01:42:58 AM
Thanks for this awesome idea, silkroad.  I am so impressed, I promoted it on my national radio program tonight.  Hope you don't mind the publicity.

I was able to access the site last night, but now am getting: 504 Connect to ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: SOCKS error: host unreachable

I am using the Tor Browser as your site suggests.

Looking forward to hearing more positive experiences from users.

I get that sometimes but I usually just refresh and it's okay. Of course, I only visit out of curiosity and ever buy anything, okay, DEA?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: theymos on March 17, 2011, 02:10:31 AM
My TOR node usually needs about 5-10 minutes to properly "heat up" and get connected to other nodes and it that time no page works for me.
After that, it runs normally.

Maybe you all should start the note and let it work for some time, and try it later.

I run mine 24/7. It's a bridge node.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: carp on March 17, 2011, 02:47:05 AM

I saw this and it bothered me. I found I had the same problem, perplexing. Now I have a solution. Check your logs (see vidalia "advanced" tab). Look for time errors. Looks like tor doesn't handle DST changes well.

I restarted tor, and now I can connect to this, and some other sites that I was having issues with. Oh, before you restart, check your system time!

Is anyone still having connection issues?  Traffic to the site died off by about 30% a couple of days ago, couldn't figure out why.  Did daylight savings time mess up tor?

I showed it to a friend and we browsed around a bit. Though, I checked again now, and now I am getting errors. The vidalia logs show:

[Notice] Closing stream for '[scrubbed].onion': hidden service is unavailable (try again later).

On the other hand, even over the past few days, I had no problem on some onions. I was testing coin tumbler a few days ago and it just stopped (I can see the transactions in the block chain, its just sitting there so frustratingly!). However, I haven't had any connection issues, and I have been watching the site obsessively since it has some of my coins :)

So I don't know what to tell you about connection issues. I am curious though, I may turn up debug logging and see if anything comes up. I really want to see hidden services take off :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 17, 2011, 06:00:27 AM
Thanks for this awesome idea, silkroad.  I am so impressed, I promoted it on my national radio program tonight.  Hope you don't mind the publicity.

I was able to access the site last night, but now am getting: 504 Connect to ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: SOCKS error: host unreachable

I am using the Tor Browser as your site suggests.

Looking forward to hearing more positive experiences from users.


How cool!  Is there a recording online somewhere?  How big is your audience?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: dmp1ce on March 17, 2011, 07:11:53 AM
The radio show is Free Talk Live and the Bitcoin and Silk Road episode can be downloaded here (http://traffic.libsyn.com/ftl/FTL2011-03-16.mp3).   FTL_Ian would have to tell you how big the audience is now but I know they have a lot of radio affiliates (http://www.freetalklive.com/affiliates).

I like the Silk Road website very much.  It has really opened my eyes to some of the great services that can be created by using Tor and Bitcoin together.  It is too bad no weapons are available on the market right now because I would be interested in trading for a handgun.   Although, pirated media is interesting to me as well.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on March 17, 2011, 09:37:33 AM
Got a connection via TOR. Don't know why, but seems to be fixed. If the problem comes back, I will look in the logs.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: opensource on March 17, 2011, 02:10:19 PM


This method of taking orders protects from a large number of attacks. It requires two computers; a laptop/netbook and another machine of any type. You should use Tor and a randomly selected WiFi hotspot (not near where you live) to download GPG encrypted messages. Now turn off your WiFi (it should be possible to fully remove hardware support for WiFi as well) and bring your laptop back to the base location. Use a truecrypted thumb drive to transfer the orders from your mobile machine to your secondary machine. The secondary machine must at no time in its life after it is used connect to the internet. I have heard about some very hard to remove rootkits that can even infect firmware in hardware and reinfect a machine from there, even after a full drive wipe. Now decrypt the order forms on this machine, and remember to securely wipe them after you are done with them.

This prevents a hacker from spying on your customers addresses if they are capable of hacking your machine. If you just use a mobile unit, a hacker could root your machine and steal the encryption keys that are used to decrypt customer orders. They could just spy on you when you decrypt the orders. Decrypting the orders on a machine that never has access to the internet removes the risk that they can transmit back. They could theoretically compromise your stationary machine by using the USB as a vector, but the compromise will be incapable of communicating information (like your keys, you screen) back to the attacker.

Using WiFi acts as a fail-safe against an attacker capable of tracing Tor (with any potential attack). Even if the attacker manages to break your anonymizer, you are protected by random WiFi. Using WiFi offers strong anonymity if it is randomly selected and used for a short period of time. Using WiFi like this also protects you from mebership revealment attacks. Normally, an attacker who can determine that your pseudonym and your real identity use Tor is capable of combining these bits of information to significantly narrow in on your identity with a datamining attack (by intersecting the pool of Tor users in an area with the pool of drug vendors shipping from that area). Using WiFi is one of the better techniques for defending from this attack, because it prevents most attackers from being able to determine your real identity uses Tor.

WiFi does come with risks of its own. It is possible for an attacker who can root your machine to determine your geolocation to with in a few meters of accuracy with a WPS (WiFi Positioning System), WPS companies drive around entire countries with WiFi sniffing equipment and record publicly broadcast MAC addresses of Wifi adapters. During this time they also record their GPS location. This allows a user to use a wireless card to see the MAC addresses in their area. If they forward this data to a WPS server, their rough GPS coordinates (to with in a few meters of accuracy) will be determined.

WPS attacks can be protected from somewhat by using a Virtual Machine. Virtual Machines like Virtual Box virtualize an operating system as well as hardware. If used correctly, a Virtual Machines only direct connection to the host machine is through a hardware hypervisor. This means an attacker who is capable of compromising an application run inside the virtual machine is stuck unless they can also find a jailbreaking vulnerability in the hypervisor. Your virtual machine should use NAT for connections rather than bridged adapters for ultimate isolation of the virtual environment. Since Virtual Box also virtualizes a network adapter, the attacker who can compromise an application in the VM can not access your real network adapter with out jailbreaking the VM. This prevents them from seeing the WiFi MAC addresses around you.

Although using WiFi + Tor + Virtual Machines + Two Machines (with one that never connects to the internet) should be enough to prevent all critical technical attacks on vendors, further security measures can be taken as well. The following steps should contain the risk of a technical compromise to such that it results only in degraded security for the vendor rather than the likely ability to take the vendor down (fail safe). These following steps can further increase the security of the Vendor to the point that there is unlikely to be a significant technical degradation of security (reduce chance of fail).

One of the steps that can be taken to further security is the isolation and compartmentalization of processes, particularly network facing processes. Much like how Virtual Machines can compartmentalize the host and guest OS (isolating the processess in the guest from the host), this other type of Virtualization can isolate process on the guest from each other. An attacker who finds a vulnerability in the jailed processes is incapable of spreading to other processes with out first compromising the virtualization scheme. One of the implementations of this technique is called BSDjails. Chroot is perhaps a more well known (although far less secure) version of this virtualization technique.

Mandatory access controls (MAC) can be used to add further isolation and compartmentalization. Usually an OS uses discretionary access controls (DAC) by default. This type of access scheme is defined with users and groups with permissions assigned to them. This type of access control tends to make it easier for an attacker to spread through the OS after initial compromise as well as have an easier time to compromise in the first place. For example with a DAC you may run Firefox with the user Bob. An attacker who can compromise Firefox now has the access controls of Bob. Mandatory access controls are defined by processes and objects. In this case Firefox will have a profile, with access granted to objects it requires to run correctly. Now if an attacker compromises Firefox they are restricted to the Firefox process profile permissions instead of Bobs permisions. Breaking out of a MAC profile requires a compromise for the Kernel.

Som mandatory access control systems offer even more options. The TrustedBSD profile gives the ability to create multi-level-security systems. This is a very advanced security technique and unfortunately I am not really able to understand it well enough to explain it. It is usually quite complicated to write a profile, but many MAC implementations come with prewritten profiles for various applications and only require the user to enable the prewritten profile.

There are ways to protect against a class of attacks known as buffer overflows. Essentially, a buffer overflow is when an application does not properly manage memory pointers. Programs written in languages that do not manage memory for you (C for example) are vulnerable to this type of attack if the programmers make mistakes (very common for consumer level software).  The attacker floods the application with data until an allocated area of memory is filled, but because the programmers made a mistake in memory management the attack is capable of sending data past this point into other areas of memory. If the attacker is capable of doing this they can  fill up an area of memory with attack code and then try to get the application to launch the attack code with the applications permission level.

One of the ways to protect from this sort of attack is to use a hardening compiler time program like the GCC stack smash protector. If you compile source code with this module called, it will try to automatically harden the code against these types of attack as it compiles it. This can protect from coding mistakes on the part of those who write the application. GCC stack smash protector is included in many operating systems and can be downloaded and installed on many others.

Another way to protect from buffer overflows is to use memory randomization techniques. One method of doing this is using a position independent executable (PIE) module during compile. Some operating systems, most notably OpenBSD, automatically use memory randomization for all applications. Memory randomization reduces the risk of a buffer overflow becaue it makes it harder for the attacker to guess where in memory their attack code overflows to. They need to guess the location in memory when they try to get to application to launch the code, if they guess incorrectly the application will likely crash with out code execution. 32 bit processors can only protect partially from these attacks because they have a small number of potential locations in memory and can be brute forced. 64 bit processors with memory randomization essentially prevent traditional buffer overflow attacks, however particularly sophisticated attackers have found ways around this. PIE is used by default for several high risk applications (like Firefox) on many operating systems. It can be manually applied during compile time by the user on many others. Full memory randomization is available on OpenBSD by default.

there are some techniques which could arguably increase the anonymity of Tor against certain attacks (generally increasing its risk to other attacks). It is dangerous to play with Tor configurations and generally suggested against unless you fully understand the risks. Traffic analysis is a complicated area of study and surprising effects from small changes are common. One way to potentially increase the anonymity provided by Tor is to use less than three entry guards. The most dangerous attacks on the Tor network require that your entry guard is malicious or the ISP of your entry guard is malicious. Selecting three entry guards means that you are selecting three potentially malicious nodes, where as selecting one entry guard means you are selecting only one potentially compromised node. The obvious downside to using a single entry guard is in the realms of speed. If your client selects a single slow entry guard your connection will be bottlenecked by that. The less obvious downside is that you may make yourself more vulnerable to attacks that are protected by from blending in with the crowd (normal Tor clients use three entry guards, you use one, thus you do not blend in with the crowd). How significant these attacks are is currently not known (by me anyway).

Another potentially advantageous way of configuring Tor could be the use of  bridge nodes as your entry points. Using a bridge will reduce the level of multiplexing between you and the first hop on the network and give you a significantly smaller set size (not many people use bridges). This probably makes it significantly easier for you to be traced through the internet than it would be for a normal Tor user. However, you will be protected from a local attacker (your ISP, the WiFi hotspot you use) determining that you use the Tor network with IP based attacks. Such an attacker could still use Traffic fingerprinting attacks to detect that you are a part of the network, but this is more difficult. Tor bridges provide a fairly weak level of membership concealment, but this is a quite important atribute for vendors to have as they leak geolocation intelligence with mail. Tor bridges should be considered by vendors who do not wish to use better techniques for membership concealment (Random WiFi, VPS/N entry, Hacked Cable Modem).

Using a different network to enter traffic than you exit through can protect from most Tor focused attacks (meaning attackers who are only in postions to watch Tor traffic). Many attackers meet this criteria, although more sophisticated attackers are of course in position to watch the traffic of many networks and even entire parts parts the globe.  Using a different network to enter than to exit traffic is a good idea for this reason alone. Another advantage of using a different network to enter than exit traffic is significant membership concealment. A local attacker can be prevented from using IP based attacks to determine that you are accessing the Tor network. Using private VPS over public VPN is a significant improvement against membership concealment attacks, it is better if you enter through a 'cover server' that is not publicly known as an anonymizer. Potential disadvantages of entering through something other than Tor are lack of crowding (especially with a private VPS). The trade offs between untraceability and membership concealment need to be carefully considered by vendors, both are important for us but in many configurations strengthening one will decrease the other. Tor by default has little protection from membership concealment, although it does obscure membership from weak attackers when not run as a relay (unlike I2P for example which offers no protection).

Running Tor as a relay instead of just a client has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of running Tor as a relay server are increased resistance to timing attacks (one of the main and most effective attacks to be used against Tor). The disadvantages of running as a relay include reduced protection from intersection attacks (this is particularly important and dangerous if you use real time communications like instant messages). Another disadvantage is the total inability to conceal membership. Running Tor as a relay is dangerous for our threat model and should be avoided.

However, you can protect from timing attacks by running your own Tor servers in datacenters (obviously with no links to you) and using them to enter traffic. Since you own them you know they are not malicious unless they have been compromised. This can offer you strong resistance to all sorts of end to end attacks. It can also be expensive to do with out sticking out from the crowd because you will need to run three Tor servers to do this.

One of the most important things you must do to increase the security of Tor is properly configure your browser. TorButton is considered a required plugin if you want any anonymity from moderately active attackers (although hidden services may lessen the requirement for TorButton somewhat). TorButton protects from many simple browser based side channel attacks. It also adds crowding where it can, for example it spoofs a common browser fingerprint. TorButton protects users from commiting several mistakes that could compromise their anonymity, for example toggling things like Cookies between anonymous and non-anonymous sessions.

Hidden Services increase the security/anonymity of Tor for clients and offer servers increased anonymity and security from some attackers. Tor hidden servers do not offer particularly strong anonymity, there are several attacks for tracing them that many agencies are probably capable of. However, Tor Hidden services increase the cost of these attacks and more importantly they buy time. It may take an attacker a few weeks or months to find the servers location instead of no time at all.  Low level attackers are incapable of deanonymizing hidden services and mid level attackers are frusturated.

There are potential techniques for increasing the anonymity of a hidden service. The main weakness of a hidden service is the ease with which the entry guards can be detected. An attacker with a few nodes on the tor network can identify a hidden services entry guards merely by sending many connection requests to it and sending time modulated streams, waiting for one of their relay nodes to be selected (the relay node can then detect the modulated stream to identify the entry guard). After the entry guards are located the attacker has two ways to continue the attack. They could contact the entry guard owner and ask them to log. If they can not do this for whatever reason, they could contact the government in the jurisdiction of the entry guard and ask them to log externally. They could also hack the entry guard or physically tap it themselves. Another option would be DDOSING entry guards simultaneously to force rotation, waiting for an attacker controled entry guard to be selected.

Hidden services could select to use multiple chained  guard nodes to add further hops/jurisdictions and significantly increase the cost/complexity of locating them with this sort of attack. Disadvantages of this include the skill level required to implement it (currently requires changes to the Tor source code prior to compile) as well as significantly decreased speed and reliability of the hidden service for every additional hop. This will also not protect additionally from other types of attack.

Against a 'lower/mid-level' adversary, a default Tor hidden service effectively provides about the same level of untraceability for a server as using a one hop encrypted proxy would provide for a client. It is worth noting that the security provided by Tor's unique encryption system still provides added benefits against certain types of attack that normal one hop encrypted proxies do not have (high resistance to local traffic fingerprinting attacks, for example).

Tor hidden services also offer client to server encryption. This removes the risk of a malicious exit node spying on user traffic. It also makes the connection between the client and the server impossible for an adversary to eavesdrop on communications (although classification of the encrypted stream is still possible due to lack of 'link masking' in Tor). Tor hidden services provide only 80 bit authentication, this is significantly weaker bit-strength authentication than SSL provides. 80 bits are still probably enough to prevent any attacker (with out a quantum computer) from masquerading as a hidden service.

Hidden services offer clients significant security advantages. As it is more difficult for an adversary to locate a hidden service than a normal server, it is less probable that an attacker can position themselves to do end to end attacks. Many of the attackers who are still capable of positioning themselves for end to end timing attacks will still have a more difficult time to do so than they would against a client accessing a non-hidden service. Hidden services make it impossible for malicious exit nodes to inject application layer exploits in the return stream. Hidden services actually act as a sort of application layer firewall between the clients that interact with it (hacking a client will first require the compromise of the hidden service, thus giving clients a potentially large increase in resistance from hackers). Hidden services more than triple a clients protection from the weakest type of log trace attack, with 10 nodes between any two clients (instead of 3 for non-hidden service connecting Tor users)

against an attacker  who is only capable of identifying a hidden services .onion and following log trails, hidden services require the collection of 10 logs (versus three for a non-hidden service client).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nekrobios on March 17, 2011, 04:01:09 PM
You should definitely update the screenshot on silkroadmarket.org from time to time, so that users won’t be discouraged by a low transaction count etc.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Cryptoman on March 17, 2011, 04:30:40 PM
This method of taking orders protects from a large number of attacks...

Holy magnum opus, Batman!  This is an excellent analysis.  I've printed it off for further reading and digestion when I have more time.  Thanks for the contribution.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: genjix on March 17, 2011, 04:44:56 PM
Saved. That info will be handy in the future. FYI the OP will likely not respond to that but I guarantee you he would've seen it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FTL_Ian on March 17, 2011, 10:06:45 PM
How cool!  Is there a recording online somewhere?  How big is your audience?

It's hour number two of the episode dmp1ce linked: http://traffic.libsyn.com/ftl/FTL2011-03-16.mp3 (Hour 2 starts at approx 40 mins in.)

Audience size varies by when we are on, but the 2nd hour is carried on more radio stations than our first.  Add to our dozens of stations a few thousand internet listeners.  Not a huge show, but also not small either.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nekrobios on March 17, 2011, 10:17:56 PM
How cool!  Is there a recording online somewhere?  How big is your audience?

It's hour number two of the episode dmp1ce linked: http://traffic.libsyn.com/ftl/FTL2011-03-16.mp3 (Hour 2 starts at approx 40 mins in.)

Audience size varies by when we are on, but the 2nd hour is carried on more radio stations than our first.  Add to our dozens of stations a few thousand internet listeners.  Not a huge show, but also not small either.
I enjoyed listening to this episode today. Have you thought about accepting Bitcoin for donations yet? ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FTL_Ian on March 18, 2011, 06:08:43 PM
Yes, we are working on implementing that into our site's one-time contribution option.  Meantime, you can just send them to my email, ian at freetalklive.com via MtGox

Thanks!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on March 18, 2011, 10:00:17 PM
Yes, we are working on implementing that into our site's one-time contribution option.  Meantime, you can just send them to my email, ian at freetalklive.com via MtGox

Thanks!

Let me know if you want some help with this. :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: namesaresa3names3 on March 18, 2011, 10:06:35 PM
If you go with the two PC route for getting orders / decrypting orders make sure to use a write blocker with the USB or better yet use CD.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: vasisualiy on March 19, 2011, 09:30:44 AM
beware man! The FBI/etc. is already tracking you!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on March 19, 2011, 02:19:21 PM
beware man! The FBI/etc. is already tracking you!

That is obvious.

Also, after the latest events (wikileaks etc) government has probably already dispatched somebody to investigate the "Bitcoin case".
For now, perhaps they may be just observing what is happening here, without taking any actions. But later... who knows ?

Of course i know that this may sound a little paranoid, but it's better to be safe than sorry. If you want to be really safe, there is nothing better than assuming that you are already being tracked / observed / spied upon.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: genjix on March 19, 2011, 11:06:34 PM
People were discussing tor and deepweb on 4chan and Bitcoin came up:

"its legit. Most common is LSD since its so easy to ship.
they have an online currency they use....BTC which is about .86cent : 1BTC"

Not going to replicate all the comments but a bunch of people were discussing silkroad.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on March 23, 2011, 02:35:43 AM
FYI, we blocked off the portal page bitcoinmarket.org, thought the .onion is still open.  The link was posted in a few high-profile places and traffic growth exceeded a healthy pace.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ShadowOfHarbringer on March 26, 2011, 03:26:59 PM
silkroad:

I think you should take a look at the drug-related discussion in the other thread:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175.msg71515#msg71515


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on March 28, 2011, 09:10:14 PM
Hi silkroad,

Nice site.
You may want to establish your presence on I2P and Freenet

Regards,
m

P.S. from functionality point of you, feedback could not only show the comment by the buyer, but also the product that was exchanged


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: nofuture on April 04, 2011, 07:41:44 AM
The portal page said it would be back up on April 1.  Now it says May 1.   What's going on?  Too much traffic? 




Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 04, 2011, 01:21:04 PM
They're having trouble with covert ops funding due to the impending budget shutdown.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: PLATO on April 04, 2011, 01:30:13 PM
But drugs are a revenue stream?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 04, 2011, 01:33:30 PM
But drugs are a revenue stream?

Not an official one.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: AtlasONo on April 05, 2011, 01:16:01 AM
This place is waaaay too easy to find, and the operators are personally selling illegal drugs in the united states?? No thanks.
BTW there's a guy selling stolen credit card info on there.....


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wb3 on April 05, 2011, 01:34:20 AM
Drugs ???

I thought this was about trade, you know like the Silk on the Silk Road.

Illegal Drugs ???  Man, that is worse than just plain old Drugs.

In the U.S., wow, that is really not a smart place to do it. Especially, since the U.S. buys up all the supply of Drugs and Illegal Drugs.

 ;D ;D ;D


Seriously, I don't do drugs. Not in favor of them, but there is apparently a supply/demand for them. I would think in this case, it is better to be on the supply side.

Not really sure why one would use the internet.

I am selling Lays Potato chips, 1 BTC per bag.  ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on April 05, 2011, 02:03:44 AM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 05, 2011, 02:11:24 AM
This place is waaaay too easy to find, and the operators are personally selling illegal drugs in the united states?? No thanks.
BTW there's a guy selling stolen credit card info on there.....

I'd wager you 50 BTC you can't actually find it's physical server location.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: theymos on April 05, 2011, 02:13:41 AM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.

I hope that's not the owner's real info...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 05, 2011, 02:18:04 AM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.

I hope that's not the owner's real info...

I seriously doubt the owner of the visable website is directly connected to whoever runs the Silk Road hidden service on Tor.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on April 05, 2011, 02:39:44 AM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.

I hope that's not the owner's real info...

I seriously doubt the owner of the visable website is directly connected to whoever runs the Silk Road hidden service on Tor.

Oops, it gets worse. Whoever bought the visible website is hosting it with a US company that is reselling server4you.de services. If someone was silly enough to put the Tor hidden service on that server, thinking it safe since it isn't in the US, they're in for a rude awakening when the US company they're paying the bill to grabs the server's data and hands it over to the FBI. I sincerely hope that whoever is running the show didn't make a mistake like that.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Triast on April 06, 2011, 04:34:51 PM
Just wanted to jump in to say it's a really interesting idea you have going here.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: dogcow on April 07, 2011, 04:15:57 AM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.
talk about amateur hour


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anonymousgod on April 07, 2011, 10:11:56 AM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.
talk about amateur hour

Yeah it isn't like they could have I dunno. Loaded bitcoin with WU with a fake ID via an exchanger in Russia, sent it through a mix, cashed it out to pecunix, bounced it to liberty reserve through an online casino, cashed it out to an anonymous domain name registrar in some third world country through a different exchanger and have a random name with no tie to them in the Whois? Seriously do you think they are so retarded as to ever have their real name anywhere near the hosting or domain registration?

Second of all, oh no the FBI might get the hidden service!! Well that isn't very hard considering they could just add some nodes to the Tor network and open an infinite amount of circuits to the hidden service then send a pattern of modulated packets over the circuits until they detect that pattern going to the entry guard. Detect all of the entry guards and then compromise one to find the hidden service. Tor hidden services are better than nothing but they are not that anonymous, although clients are.

But the thing is why would the FBI do this attack to locate the hidden service (assuming they even can which is doubted since they are a bunch of noobs who can't even trace CP hidden services with the same attack) to locate a server that has nothing but asymmetric encrypted orders on it??????????? Compromise of the hidden service, although not that difficult to do, is of close to zero benefit to an attacker.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: PLATO on April 08, 2011, 01:28:55 AM
or just buy drugs from silk road and correlate the mailing address with known tor users in that area


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: grondilu on April 08, 2011, 11:58:15 AM
wow,   just had a look at the site.   It got pretty impressive with a large choice of different stuffs.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: nofuture on April 09, 2011, 11:30:30 PM
if the market value of BTC is equivalent to the good and services available for BTC then the market value of BTC is going to skyrocket 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market


There's a 1.5 trillion dollar market for these items but it's until now it's almost all offline using physical cash due to significant legal concerns.

http://www.havocscope.com/ranking/

 

It's not just silk road

Apparently there's a bunch of markets popping up for all sorts of items and silk road is growing rapidly.  He had to shut down the portal page due to the enormous amount of traffic.   As grondilu pointed out "wow, just had a look at the site. It got pretty impressive with a large choice of different stuffs."

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade (look under "psychoactive") 





Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: dmp1ce on April 10, 2011, 12:25:27 PM
Impressive. How many users does it have? could you post screenshots?

Screenshots of the website?  You can visit a mirror of the tor website by going here: https://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.tor2web.org/


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: divergenta on April 10, 2011, 12:58:08 PM
I have none experience in this matter but isn't it risky to ship illegal drugs worldwide?
Isn't outgoing mail checked by drug-sniffing dogs some times? At least when shipping from one country to another? Or are drug-dogs more uncommon than I think?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: bitlotto on April 10, 2011, 01:56:05 PM
I have none experience in this matter but isn't it risky to ship illegal drugs worldwide?
Isn't outgoing mail checked by drug-sniffing dogs some times? At least when shipping from one country to another? Or are drug-dogs more uncommon than I think?

Depending on the country, but the police would have to prove you ordered the stuff and someone didn't 'accidentally' mail it to you. Perhaps an enemy?  ;) If they had the Bitcoin transaction traced to you - then your screwed.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: nofuture on April 10, 2011, 04:06:05 PM
I have none experience in this matter but isn't it risky to ship illegal drugs worldwide?
Isn't outgoing mail checked by drug-sniffing dogs some times? At least when shipping from one country to another? Or are drug-dogs more uncommon than I think?

Depending on the country, but the police would have to prove you ordered the stuff and someone didn't 'accidentally' mail it to you. Perhaps an enemy?  ;) If they had the Bitcoin transaction traced to you - then your screwed.



If dogs are a problem in your jurisdiction they will vacuum seal it


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wb3 on April 10, 2011, 04:14:46 PM
I have none experience in this matter but isn't it risky to ship illegal drugs worldwide?
Isn't outgoing mail checked by drug-sniffing dogs some times? At least when shipping from one country to another? Or are drug-dogs more uncommon than I think?

Depending on the country, but the police would have to prove you ordered the stuff and someone didn't 'accidentally' mail it to you. Perhaps an enemy?  ;) If they had the Bitcoin transaction traced to you - then your screwed.



If dogs are a problem in your jurisdiction they will vacuum seal it

That will stop air, not the smell. Enough PPM will get through for a good dog to still find.  And I am assuming your talking about MJ. While I don't do drugs, I never understood why people buy MJ. It is a weed that almost anyone can grow. If it is for personal use, you can grow enough from 1 or 2 bushes in your house and no one would be the wiser. Even in your back yard if you want to, but I bet the neighborhood kids would start coming around.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FooDSt4mP on April 10, 2011, 04:18:57 PM
I have none experience in this matter but isn't it risky to ship illegal drugs worldwide?
Isn't outgoing mail checked by drug-sniffing dogs some times? At least when shipping from one country to another? Or are drug-dogs more uncommon than I think?

Depending on the country, but the police would have to prove you ordered the stuff and someone didn't 'accidentally' mail it to you. Perhaps an enemy?  ;) If they had the Bitcoin transaction traced to you - then your screwed.



If dogs are a problem in your jurisdiction they will vacuum seal it

That will stop air, not the smell. Enough PPM will get through for a good dog to still find.  And I am assuming your talking about MJ. While I don't do drugs, I never understood why people buy MJ. It is a weed that almost anyone can grow. If it is for personal use, you can grow enough from 1 or 2 bushes in your house and no one would be the wiser. Even in your back yard if you want to, but I bet the neighborhood kids would start coming around.

If you get caught with a small bag of weed, it's usually a misdemeanor.  Cultivation is a whole different story, and almost always a felony.  It's almost a form of protection money.  You are paying the dealer to protect you from the risk of the government throwing you in prison.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wb3 on April 10, 2011, 04:44:00 PM
Yea, but if it is really for personal use, who is to know?

If you are lucky enough to live in the right climate, and next to woods, you wouldn't have to "cultivate" anything. Just let the weed grow.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FooDSt4mP on April 10, 2011, 04:52:49 PM
Yea, but if it is really for personal use, who is to know?

If you are lucky enough to live in the right climate, and next to woods, you wouldn't have to "cultivate" anything. Just let the weed grow.

Yes, given the right conditions there is little risk.  However, for most people the risk is too high, thus they pay others to manage the risk for them.  In urban areas, for example, you can only grow indoors.  And if your neighbor smells anything and rats you out you're fucked.  The cops also work with power companies to look for grow light patterns in electricity usage.  You can mitigate that by storing the electricity at a more constant rate, but that adds a lot of cost and time to set up.  You can hope they go after the bigger fishes first, but if they are looking to make a bust, a small fish making a few mistakes will be an easier target.  In the end, it's easier to just buy it unless your time is worthless, or you have some private land.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: casascius on April 10, 2011, 04:55:48 PM

Yes, given the right conditions there is little risk.  However, for most people the risk is too high, thus they pay others to manage the risk for them.  In urban areas, for example, you can only grow indoors.  And if your neighbor smells anything and rats you out you're fucked.  The cops also work with power companies to look for grow light patterns in electricity usage.  You can mitigate that by storing the electricity at a more constant rate, but that adds a lot of cost and time to set up.  You can hope they go after the bigger fishes first, but if they are looking to make a bust, a small fish making a few mistakes will be an easier target.  In the end, it's easier to just buy it unless your time is worthless, or you have some private land.

If you're a Bitcoin miner, then you have an advantage: you can get a Kill-A-Watt meter and once you know your usage, you can offset your lights off time with an even wattage of mining!

*smirk*


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 11, 2011, 04:47:45 AM
Yea, but if it is really for personal use, who is to know?

If you are lucky enough to live in the right climate, and next to woods, you wouldn't have to "cultivate" anything. Just let the weed grow.

Obviously you have never actually tried this, because the result is some crappy product.  It's the female flower bud the produces the majority of the THC, and production dies if a male plant is nearby and the females are pollinated.  And growing outdoors means that plants are subject to being eaten, and there are a surprising numbers of creatures that really like to eat mj, from bugs to rabbits to deer.  To have any success at all, females need to be isolated and protected, which means "cultivation" in any practical sense.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 11, 2011, 04:51:31 AM
I have none experience in this matter but isn't it risky to ship illegal drugs worldwide?
Isn't outgoing mail checked by drug-sniffing dogs some times? At least when shipping from one country to another? Or are drug-dogs more uncommon than I think?

Depending on the country, but the police would have to prove you ordered the stuff and someone didn't 'accidentally' mail it to you. Perhaps an enemy?  ;) If they had the Bitcoin transaction traced to you - then your screwed.



If dogs are a problem in your jurisdiction they will vacuum seal it

That will stop air, not the smell.

Glass will though.  A proper mason jar can defeat a drug dog, so long as the seal is proper, the top tight (and made of metal, not plastic) and there are no hairline cracks in the glass.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: flix on April 11, 2011, 02:08:12 PM
>1000 users on silk road.. not bad


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on April 11, 2011, 03:55:12 PM
Glass will though.  A proper mason jar can defeat a drug dog, so long as the seal is proper, the top tight (and made of metal, not plastic) and there are no hairline cracks in the glass.
Don't be so paranoid: http://reason.com/archives/2011/02/21/the-mind-of-a-police-dog?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FArticles+%28Reason+Online+-+All+Articles+%28except+Hit+%26+Run+blog%29%29 (http://reason.com/archives/2011/02/21/the-mind-of-a-police-dog?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FArticles+%28Reason+Online+-+All+Articles+%28except+Hit+%26+Run+blog%29%29)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 11, 2011, 06:29:57 PM
Glass will though.  A proper mason jar can defeat a drug dog, so long as the seal is proper, the top tight (and made of metal, not plastic) and there are no hairline cracks in the glass.
Don't be so paranoid:

Who is being paranoid?  If you were in this business, wouldn't you consider intelligent steps to avoid detection a prudent use of resources?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on April 11, 2011, 07:17:20 PM
Who is being paranoid?  If you were in this business, wouldn't you consider intelligent steps to avoid detection a prudent use of resources?
Dogs are not super narc sidekicks. Therefore, a buyer shouldn't freak out if his vacuum sealed contraband purchase came via mail not contained in a mason jar.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 11, 2011, 07:19:31 PM
Who is being paranoid?  If you were in this business, wouldn't you consider intelligent steps to avoid detection a prudent use of resources?
Dogs are not super narc sidekicks. Therefore, a buyer shouldn't freak out if his vacuum sealed contraband purchase came via mail not contained in a mason jar.

You didn't read the thread, did you?  I wasn't saying that other methods didn't exist, nor did I make any comments about the levels of risks.  All that I did was comment that glass is an effective vapor barrier to the smell that drug dogs are trained to locate.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on April 11, 2011, 07:39:11 PM
You didn't read the thread, did you?  I wasn't saying that other methods didn't exist, nor did I make any comments about the levels of risks.  All that I did was comment that glass is an effective vapor barrier to the smell that drug dogs are trained to locate.
I've read the thread. I didn't direct my comment at you specifically. I just didn't want to do a big quote chain. I was simply addressing the false, but prevalent, premise that search dogs are infallible, not that you believed in it yourself, of course. Please don't take offense at the paranoid stoner reference.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on April 12, 2011, 09:57:42 AM
In fact, if it is a few times vacuum sealed and then just wrapped in some paper, it's already not sniffable by dogs.
I overestimated dogs as well; however, after trying such services like 20 times allready (and, moreover, never heard of friends busted) I can tell that it's not very hard to seal is unsmellable.
Greets


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: fetokun on April 12, 2011, 10:08:45 AM
Quote
Don't be so paranoid: http://reason.com/archives/2011/02/21/the-mind-of-a-police-dog?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FArticles+%28Reason+Online+-+All+Articles+%28except+Hit+%26+Run+blog%29%29

I really liked this!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: bullox on April 13, 2011, 02:08:51 AM
tor site appears down... 504 connect failed


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on April 13, 2011, 03:25:25 PM
same here.
Can't view the site.
dammit, hopefully its nothing serious!
Greets


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 8668 on April 13, 2011, 08:05:20 PM
Timing out for me all day. Wonder if they have met their inevitable fate?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on April 13, 2011, 08:41:32 PM
tor site appears down... 504 connect failed
Seems to be a TOR related problem.
Read on here --> http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3984.msg65666#msg65666

If you want to check if Silk Road is down for everyone or just you, you can check via tor2web.org

Timing out for me all day. Wonder if they have met their inevitable fate?
::)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on April 13, 2011, 08:46:44 PM
Yep, I was able to connect and browse without any issues at all.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: CryptikEnigma on April 13, 2011, 08:51:42 PM
http://silkroadmarket.org/ says they closed up shop, or has it always been like that to throw people off or something?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on April 13, 2011, 09:59:05 PM
http://silkroadmarket.org/ says they closed up shop, or has it always been like that to throw people off or something?

Seems like business is good, don't know why they would.
Can anyone confirm one way or the other?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on April 13, 2011, 10:00:42 PM
http://silkroadmarket.org/ says they closed up shop, or has it always been like that to throw people off or something?

Seems like business is good, don't know why they would.
Can anyone confirm one way or the other?

They shuttered silkroadmarket.org, which was just a portal page. The actual site, on Tor, appears to be operating as normal.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on April 14, 2011, 11:03:15 AM
Well, I can't view the site with TOR or tor2web.
Also a restart of TOR did not help.
Any advice?
Greets!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on April 14, 2011, 05:48:27 PM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.

I hope that's not the owner's real info...

I seriously doubt the owner of the visable website is directly connected to whoever runs the Silk Road hidden service on Tor.

Oops, it gets worse. Whoever bought the visible website is hosting it with a US company that is reselling server4you.de services. If someone was silly enough to put the Tor hidden service on that server, thinking it safe since it isn't in the US, they're in for a rude awakening when the US company they're paying the bill to grabs the server's data and hands it over to the FBI. I sincerely hope that whoever is running the show didn't make a mistake like that.

Hi everyone, glad to see this thread is remaining popular.  Just to address the quote above in case it concerns anyone, the portal page and tor site are completely separate and neither can be traced back to any physical persons at Silk Road in any conceivable way.  The portal page was an afterthought to get more traffic to the site, but did its job too well, over-exposing Silk Road.  We will reopen it when we feel like the site is ready for that kind of exposure.

On another note, I would like to bring this thread back to the "Feedback requested" part of the title.  I am especially interested in hearing from anyone with alot of experience in network security about how to improve the anonymity of the site beyond running it as a tor hidden service.  How would YOU do it?  What are some worse case scenarios?

Thanks everyone for your support :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on April 14, 2011, 06:39:52 PM
Hi everyone, glad to see this thread is remaining popular.  Just to address the quote above in case it concerns anyone, the portal page and tor site are completely separate and neither can be traced back to any physical persons at Silk Road in any conceivable way.  The portal page was an afterthought to get more traffic to the site, but did its job too well, over-exposing Silk Road.  We will reopen it when we feel like the site is ready for that kind of exposure.

On another note, I would like to bring this thread back to the "Feedback requested" part of the title.  I am especially interested in hearing from anyone with alot of experience in network security about how to improve the anonymity of the site beyond running it as a tor hidden service.  How would YOU do it?  What are some worse case scenarios?

Thanks everyone for your support :)
After Oink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oink%27s_Pink_Palace) went away, new tracker sites started up to fill the void, kind of like a hydra. Because of open source tracker software, new heads grew quickly. Do you think there's anything you can do, or have you already done things, to facilitate the creation of new hydra heads in the unfortunate case that the authorities shut down Silk Road?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: UncleIroh on April 14, 2011, 06:53:19 PM
Oops, somebody forgot their whois privacy when they renewed their domain.

I hope that's not the owner's real info...

I seriously doubt the owner of the visable website is directly connected to whoever runs the Silk Road hidden service on Tor.

Oops, it gets worse. Whoever bought the visible website is hosting it with a US company that is reselling server4you.de services. If someone was silly enough to put the Tor hidden service on that server, thinking it safe since it isn't in the US, they're in for a rude awakening when the US company they're paying the bill to grabs the server's data and hands it over to the FBI. I sincerely hope that whoever is running the show didn't make a mistake like that.

Hi everyone, glad to see this thread is remaining popular.  Just to address the quote above in case it concerns anyone, the portal page and tor site are completely separate and neither can be traced back to any physical persons at Silk Road in any conceivable way.  The portal page was an afterthought to get more traffic to the site, but did its job too well, over-exposing Silk Road.  We will reopen it when we feel like the site is ready for that kind of exposure.

On another note, I would like to bring this thread back to the "Feedback requested" part of the title.  I am especially interested in hearing from anyone with alot of experience in network security about how to improve the anonymity of the site beyond running it as a tor hidden service.  How would YOU do it?  What are some worse case scenarios?

Thanks everyone for your support :)

Everyday I look at your website wanting to order something... and everyday I close the browser thinking "no, too risky!"
Is there a discrete way of telling to which country products have been shipped successfully?

Maybe there could be some sort of anonymous country-related feedbacks... dunno


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on April 14, 2011, 08:24:57 PM
Hi everyone, glad to see this thread is remaining popular.  Just to address the quote above in case it concerns anyone, the portal page and tor site are completely separate and neither can be traced back to any physical persons at Silk Road in any conceivable way.  The portal page was an afterthought to get more traffic to the site, but did its job too well, over-exposing Silk Road.  We will reopen it when we feel like the site is ready for that kind of exposure.

If you say so. :)

On another note, I would like to bring this thread back to the "Feedback requested" part of the title.  I am especially interested in hearing from anyone with alot of experience in network security about how to improve the anonymity of the site beyond running it as a tor hidden service.  How would YOU do it?  What are some worse case scenarios?

There exist attacks which can potentially locate a hidden service. Therefore, make sure the server it's running on is also paid for anonymously, and can be relocated quickly if necessary.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: vwckw on April 14, 2011, 08:51:07 PM
There is also the http://g7pz322wcy6jnn4r.onion/opensource/ovdb/ac/index.php drug market.

Tracing hidden services is trivial for a skilled attacker. The best way to do it is to send a time modulated stream of packets to the hidden service over many different circuits. Hidden services open new circuit for every rendezvous point and the clients can select to use as many rendezvous points as they desire. This makes locating hidden service entry guards easy as you can flood some nodes to the network and look for the pattern in the packets you send to the hidden service. This will locate the three entry guards which can then be trap and traced to find the hidden services location, or tons of other attacks. Don't count on Tor hidden service to give you a server that can't be traced! You should edit the Tor source code to select for a four or five hop circuit, with the first two or three nodes being guards(from a small pool, meaning two-three guard chain). You could select to use a single entry guard, this will reduce the chance that the attacker owns one of them. However it is bad for uptime and there are some other attacks that this could theoretically be weaker to than using three guard nodes. I personally think it is a good idea, others may disagree.

The main risk if the attackers locate the hidden service is that they could take it over and be in a good position for application layer side channel attacks.  All orders must be encrypted with GPG if you want a chance, this helps tremendously because then if the server is compromised the attacker can not impersonate vendors or harvest customer addresses. The hidden service being compromised should be assumed after some time. You can make it harder for the attacker to trace the hidden service on the application layer by using a few techniques. First of all you can run things on an OpenBSD server with ASLR and a 64 bit processor to make buffer overflow attacks all but impossible. If you have some money to spend I suggest you make a tamper resistant case that can detect if it is physically penetrated and wipe the volatile memory, put the ram in encapsulation material and do co-location anonymously. Be careful not to leave DNA fingerprints or other links on the physical server if you go this route. You can isolate the server by putting it on a virtual machine, isolate the processes by using BSDjails style virtualization inside this VM. Tor should be in its own VM separate from the VM the web server is in, with all traffic forced on the host to go through the Tor VM. This way an application layer compromise of the web server can not side channel Tor unless the attacker can go through the hypervisor. You should also use mandatory access control profiles to really lock the web server down as much as possible.

The biggest thing to worry about is geolocation intelligence being coupled with Tor observability. I imagine these sites are going to be attacked by the feds intersecting the crowd of Tor users with the people in a rough proximity of where packages are shipped to narrow in on a likely suspect pool. In other words, you should worry less about the hidden service and more about the operational security of the vendors. Vendors should not connect from home or even use Tor or other anonymizers from home. They should use Tor bridges to offer membership concealment, however it is not known if the FBI or DEA are capable of detecting bridged connections. Using bridges makes you easier to trace through the network but for our threat model membership concealment is quite important....they feds don't need to trace through the network they can look for connections into the network since they can determine geolocation from mail.

I suggest that you make a clear separation between order retrieval and order decryption. Use Tor + Bridges + open wifi in always changing random locations, not from a car but on foot + ASLR + MAC + FDE + General hardening on the machine you use to get orders. Another option is to use a live CD, these will not be as technically secure as you can configure things yourself but they have the huge advantage of leaving no traces as soon as they are shut down which will give you more plausible deniability in court than if you refuse to decrypt a machine. Another disadvantage of live CD is the lack of ability to use bridges usually, open Wifi is not true membership concealment but rather location unlinkability (the attacker will likely be able to determine where Tor connections were made from, but they may not be able to link these geographic locations connections were made from to your base location). You should also use virtual machine with NAT connection so that if your order retrieval machine is hacked they can not access your WiFi adapter and pull near by MAC addresses to geoposition you. Plus Tor / Browser seperation via a VM and firewall rules on the host.

After encrypted orders are retrieved you should burn them to a CD still encrypted. The decryption should take place on a fully separate machine with no access to the internet. This way even if they manage to compromise the machine that can connect to the internet, they can only pull ciphertext. If they compromise the decryption machine, they can not communicate back customer addresses. You could build a copper mesh cage to contain the decryption machine and cover it with blankets and generate noise to create a make shift SCIF, to protect from transient electromagnetic signals being used to reconstruct your monitor / hidden cameras pulling the screen/keyboard, acoustic analysis of keystrokes. Or you could use an on screen keyboard to protect from audio analysis of keystrokes. These are disadvantages to using a SCIF, primarily you will have a hard time to explain it in court and copper mesh is not cheap. On the other hand, if they do van eck radiation analysis to pull your screen they pretty much win anyway. Your best bet is to make it so they can't find your location to do this sort of attack in the first place.

I would also consider compartmentalising customer support from shipping. Communicate with the shipper using steganography or some covert channel to conceal the link.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: zssuh on April 14, 2011, 09:12:08 PM
After Oink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oink%27s_Pink_Palace) went away, new tracker sites started up to fill the void, kind of like a hydra. Because of open source tracker software, new heads grew quickly. Do you think there's anything you can do, or have you already done things, to facilitate the creation of new hydra heads in the unfortunate case that the authorities shut down Silk Road?

This concept (many hydra heads) is known as Netwar.

http://g7pz322wcy6jnn4r.onion/opensource/polyfront/netwar.html

also check the wikipedia article and maybe read about the RAND groups analysis of it. Netwar is giving power to the people over the hierarchy organization of the state. 
 
The best thing the drug scene can do is embrace Netwar and take it to its pinnacle. We need to remove all the centralization, many hydra heads with every node its own command and control is a vast improvement over the statist organizational models, but full decentralization is what we must aim for. There should be no single point of compromise, or any centralization at all. We need to become a fully decentralized all channel network, with the infrastructure not being run by silk road or open source but rather being run by every node of the network, with each node also being its own command and control. We are currently and have been for some time developing the technology required for this to happen.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2011, 01:45:14 AM
I am both scared and amazed all at the same time by these posts.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jaime Frontero on April 15, 2011, 04:48:24 AM
I am both scared and amazed all at the same time by these posts.

This is how money works...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: caveden on April 15, 2011, 07:18:43 AM
Tracing hidden services is trivial for a skilled attacker. The best way to do it is to send a time modulated stream of packets to the hidden service over many different circuits.

It's not the first time I read this... for this to work, wouldn't the attacker need to be working together with all ISPs and backbones that route these circuits? If not, how would the attacker track such stream of packets?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on April 15, 2011, 01:25:29 PM
Tracing hidden services is trivial for a skilled attacker. The best way to do it is to send a time modulated stream of packets to the hidden service over many different circuits.

It's not the first time I read this... for this to work, wouldn't the attacker need to be working together with all ISPs and backbones that route these circuits? If not, how would the attacker track such stream of packets?

You'd have to really piss someone off (like the government) to go to that much effort or have something really valuable.

The posts above are pretty damn intense. Seems like a lot to go to and one screw up could get you caught. Awesome to read though.
Maybe easier to just locate yourself in a friendlier country.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wzpby on April 15, 2011, 01:31:32 PM
The previous posts are over kill security. In practice the federal police agencies fail to compromise much less secure targets. I think that CIA/NSA would have trouble to compromise a target that takes the precautions mentioned, however they might stand a chance. However, I suggest people try their best to follow the tips even though they are currently not required to counter federal police.

Regarding Tor, the attacker does not need the cooperation of ISP or other external attackers. They merely need to do a sybil attack and add some nodes to the network. The attack is essentially the same as this one: http://freehaven.net/anonbib/cache/hs-attack06.pdf

The tor devs added entry guards to counter this attack. However, there is a single entry guard between the hidden service and the attacker, the entry guards are selected from a pool of three nodes. So it is trivial for an attacker to find three nodes that have a direct link with the hidden service. If they can compromise one of those identified nodes, the hidden service is traced.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: glowbandit318 on April 16, 2011, 03:23:12 PM
how do we join, and when can we?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on April 16, 2011, 05:14:11 PM
how do we join, and when can we?

-.- get TOR and use the URL in SilkRoads signature. Even if it seems so, this is not a topic about "how tor works".


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Do not look it in the eye on April 16, 2011, 07:10:51 PM
The best thing the drug scene can do is embrace Netwar and take it to its pinnacle. We need to remove all the centralization, many hydra heads with every node its own command and control is a vast improvement over the statist organizational models, but full decentralization is what we must aim for. There should be no single point of compromise, or any centralization at all. We need to become a fully decentralized all channel network, with the infrastructure not being run by silk road or open source but rather being run by every node of the network, with each node also being its own command and control. We are currently and have been for some time developing the technology required for this to happen.

I've read with interest the long and informative posts about infosec and so forth in this thread and the "heroin store" thread, but this is a really fascinating idea.

Were you thinking along the lines of a network of anonymous gpg identities, each participant signing the other's key and building a web of trust that can easily be transferred anywhere ASCII goes, so if one venue goes down the next can pop up with the survivors and still maintain much of the credibility of it's predecessor? It seems that this could be quite reliable if a simple framework where gpg was required to participate was implemented.

-.- get TOR and use the URL in SilkRoads signature. Even if it seems so, this is not a topic about "how tor works".
Sorry to sidetrack this discussion further but interesting threads deserve interesting digressions. 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mndrix on April 16, 2011, 10:00:20 PM
Were you thinking along the lines of a network of anonymous gpg identities, each participant signing the other's key and building a web of trust that can easily be transferred anywhere ASCII goes, so if one venue goes down the next can pop up with the survivors and still maintain much of the credibility of it's predecessor? It seems that this could be quite reliable if a simple framework where gpg was required to participate was implemented.

I think that's a great description of why the #bitcoin-otc (http://bitcoin-otc.com/) web of trust is such a valuable tool for our community.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Grix on April 18, 2011, 10:09:40 PM
This site is majorly bugged.. I can't log in to my account(s). If I have special characters in my password, which all passwords should have, then I get an "Invalid password" even though it's correct. If I don't have special characters and write my password correctly, the site just refreshes and nothing changes.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on April 19, 2011, 06:23:57 AM
This site is majorly bugged.. I can't log in to my account(s). If I have special characters in my password, which all passwords should have, then I get an "Invalid password" even though it's correct. If I don't have special characters and write my password correctly, the site just refreshes and nothing changes.
Maybe your client is majorly bugged  :P. I just checked and I can login without any problems.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: CharlieContent on April 19, 2011, 08:35:43 AM
Those claiming to be selling slaves and radioactive material on Silk Road worry me slightly, even though they may be trolls. The slavery post seems like nonsense to me, but the radioactive materials one is chilling.

Silk Road, do you feel anything is crossing the line? Is there anything that you would step in and stop from being sold on the site?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Grix on April 19, 2011, 09:29:45 AM
This site is majorly bugged.. I can't log in to my account(s). If I have special characters in my password, which all passwords should have, then I get an "Invalid password" even though it's correct. If I don't have special characters and write my password correctly, the site just refreshes and nothing changes.
Maybe your client is majorly bugged  :P. I just checked and I can login without any problems.

I figured out the problem.. I had cookies turned off :/


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on April 19, 2011, 02:44:25 PM
Those claiming to be selling slaves and radioactive material on Silk Road worry me slightly, even though they may be trolls. The slavery post seems like nonsense to me, but the radioactive materials one is chilling.

Silk Road, do you feel anything is crossing the line? Is there anything that you would step in and stop from being sold on the site?

I'm wondering the same thing. Totally cool to sell a kidney I pull out of a vagrant?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 19, 2011, 06:10:42 PM
Those claiming to be selling slaves and radioactive material on Silk Road worry me slightly, even though they may be trolls. The slavery post seems like nonsense to me, but the radioactive materials one is chilling.

Silk Road, do you feel anything is crossing the line? Is there anything that you would step in and stop from being sold on the site?

I'm wondering the same thing. Totally cool to sell a kidney I pull out of a vagrant?

Not unless he freely sold his kidney to you.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: deadlizard on April 19, 2011, 06:19:28 PM
Those claiming to be selling slaves and radioactive material on Silk Road worry me slightly, even though they may be trolls. The slavery post seems like nonsense to me, but the radioactive materials one is chilling.

Silk Road, do you feel anything is crossing the line? Is there anything that you would step in and stop from being sold on the site?

I'm wondering the same thing. Totally cool to sell a kidney I pull out of a vagrant?

Not unless he freely sold his kidney to you.
Pay him in bitcoins  ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on April 19, 2011, 08:41:33 PM
Those claiming to be selling slaves and radioactive material on Silk Road worry me slightly, even though they may be trolls. The slavery post seems like nonsense to me, but the radioactive materials one is chilling.

Silk Road, do you feel anything is crossing the line? Is there anything that you would step in and stop from being sold on the site?

I'm wondering the same thing. Totally cool to sell a kidney I pull out of a vagrant?

Not unless he freely sold his kidney to you.

To clarify: this isn't my plan. I'm just saying if someone is cutting people up and selling their organs ( I can't think of much worse) then is silk road going to delete the post or let it stay up? Where do they draw the line or is there even one? Assassinations etc too?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on April 19, 2011, 09:07:33 PM
Those claiming to be selling slaves and radioactive material on Silk Road worry me slightly, even though they may be trolls. The slavery post seems like nonsense to me, but the radioactive materials one is chilling.

Silk Road, do you feel anything is crossing the line? Is there anything that you would step in and stop from being sold on the site?

I'm wondering the same thing. Totally cool to sell a kidney I pull out of a vagrant?

Not unless he freely sold his kidney to you.

To clarify: this isn't my plan. I'm just saying if someone is cutting people up and selling their organs ( I can't think of much worse) then is silk road going to delete the post or let it stay up? Where do they draw the line or is there even one? Assassinations etc too?

Try asking them, but I was under the impression that they are agorists, and as such could not abide by vendors using their site that are known to steal the property of others in order to sell it on their website.  Being against victimless laws that prohibt the free trade of particular plant products, sexual relations or other contraband is not the same as being against true crime.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2011, 10:11:32 PM
Those claiming to be selling slaves and radioactive material on Silk Road worry me slightly, even though they may be trolls. The slavery post seems like nonsense to me, but the radioactive materials one is chilling.

Silk Road, do you feel anything is crossing the line? Is there anything that you would step in and stop from being sold on the site?

I'm wondering the same thing. Totally cool to sell a kidney I pull out of a vagrant?

Not unless he freely sold his kidney to you.

To clarify: this isn't my plan. I'm just saying if someone is cutting people up and selling their organs ( I can't think of much worse) then is silk road going to delete the post or let it stay up? Where do they draw the line or is there even one? Assassinations etc too?

Try asking them, but I was under the impression that they are agorists, and as such could not abide by vendors using their site that are known to steal the property of others in order to sell it on their website.  Being against victimless laws that prohibt the free trade of particular plant products, sexual relations or other contraband is not the same as being against true crime.

I would have to agree with that.

Stealing someones property creates a victim. This is a crime with an actual victim. Taking an organ from a homeless person is a crime whereas buying his kidney and compensating him is not a crime. Stealing something and selling it is a crime whereas growing something the state doesnt like and selling it is not a crime.


P.S. Who'd want a kidney from a homeless guy ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on April 19, 2011, 10:34:42 PM

So things we definitely won't see on Silk Road;

- contracts/bounties to commit true crime hits (including assassination contracts)
- property acquired through theft of any kind (including body parts, stolen bitcoins, etc)
- criminal activity involving victims (including child porn, slave trade, fraudulent schemes, etc)

Things we might see;

- legitimate trade in substances and content that may be otherwise illicit in some legal systems (pharmaceuticals, censored material, leaked explosive govt. documents)
- legitimate trade in radioactive isotopes (maybe there is a market for fringe clean-up around Fukushima)
- legitimate trade in weapons, explosives and other destructive technologies (bio-weapons, chemical weapons)
- trade in gene selection technology for designer offspring and other ethically-questionable, experimental bio-medical technologies, fringe cancer treatments, etc


.....
good summary or wide of the mark?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: grondilu on April 19, 2011, 10:37:27 PM
- trade in gene selection technology for designer offspring and other ethically-questionable, experimental bio-medical technologies, fringe cancer treatments, etc


cool  ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on April 20, 2011, 12:16:01 AM
When you talk about voluntary organs etc you're getting in to a real gray area too. If someone needs to sell it to feed their starving family are they really giving it away? Same with prostitution. You could argue that their economic situation is causing the loss of the organ / prostitution but I don't know. It would just be pretty damn hard to regulate those kind of things and know what is legit or not.

If an individual is willing to trade an organ or sex for a good or service they need, in what way does preventing the trade benefit them?

Quote
Also if Silkroad doesn't have it someone with less scruples (or just a different view whatever) will provide a place for it.

Truth.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: EllisD on April 20, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
i doubt silkroad will be anything more than drugs; otherwise I could see many people leaving. i personally don't want to be mixed up in a site with a free for all illegal market and im sure many others feel the same.

if you're there for personal use, i doubt you have much to worry about in the first place. even if you're moving weight, its pretty secure if you know what you're doing.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: CharlieContent on April 20, 2011, 12:52:16 AM

So things we definitely won't see on Silk Road;

- property acquired through theft of any kind (including body parts, stolen bitcoins, etc)
- criminal activity involving victims (including child porn, slave trade, fraudulent schemes, etc)


Pretty wide of the mark I'd say, considering that:

1. There is already a guy selling stolen credit card details on there.
2. There is already someone on the forum putting out feelers to determine if anyone is interested in his slave trade operations, and he claims to have received messages from interested parties. (Possibly/probably a troll though, but either way the site owners haven't stepped in.)

Seems like the site owners are taking a very laissez-faire attitude to even the most controversial things.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: EllisD on April 20, 2011, 01:05:58 AM
Child porn should not be illegal to possess or view. If you think it should be, then you are pro censorship.

it's a two headed sword.

in order to posses/view, it must be made somehow, which creates a market

but some believe that if a pedo doesn't get his CP fix, he/she will resort to more desperate measures (kidnapping followed by shit i don't want to think about)

so it comes down to the lesser of the two evils in my book


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mvgdr on April 20, 2011, 07:04:09 AM
Were you thinking along the lines of a network of anonymous gpg identities, each participant signing the other's key and building a web of trust that can easily be transferred anywhere ASCII goes, so if one venue goes down the next can pop up with the survivors and still maintain much of the credibility of it's predecessor? It seems that this could be quite reliable if a simple framework where gpg was required to participate was implemented.

I think that's a great description of why the #bitcoin-otc (http://bitcoin-otc.com/) web of trust is such a valuable tool for our community.

The project we are working on can be summarised as follows. The project is a decentralised forum at its heart, also working as an anonymity network. The project has a client side and a server side component, no browser will be required. It consists of both clients and servers, servers act as mixes. The goal is for it to be a location hidden mix net, meaning the actual mixes will be Tor hidden services. The sort of mixing utilised is known as Tau mixing. Tau mixing allows clients to determine a value for minimum crowd size and minimum time delay and apply these values to their messages. The mix nodes respect these values before forwarding the messages on. For example, a client may tag a post with Tau values of 'ten messages' and 'two hours'. The mix that receives this message will hold it until both ten messages have arrived and two hours of time have passed. I will not go into the technical analysis of Tau mixing here, however you can find papers on the subject at freehaven.

Messages are also padded with random data to obfuscate the sizing characteristics. Messages are encrypted with layers, each layer having random padding and Tau values in it as well as the hidden service URL of the next mix on the chain. This should prevent an attacker who can observe traffic into and out of a mix from linking messages in and messages out. The mixing will offer significantly more anonymity than is provided by Tor, as well as resistance to correlation attacks. As Tor is used on top of the mixing, it will act as a fail safe and further add anonymity.

Messages go through two stages, insertion and propagation. A message is anonymized via the insertion stage, going through multiple mixes with Tau values and layers of encryption and padding. After the message is anonymized it begins to propagate. This can be seen as more similar to Freenet, the encrypted message does not change from node to node while it propagates (ciphertext is the same from node A to node B) however layered link level encryption is provided by Tor. Messages are tagged with clearance levels as well. Key distribution for clearance levels is protected with asymmetric encryption.

The forum structure itself can be seen as more similar to instant message protocols than a regular forum. Each user has a buddy list with people on it who they invite. There are not administrators to invite people to the forum, rather people add each other to their buddy lists. When there are intersections between buddy lists, clearance levels can form. For example, perhaps Alice has Bob on her buddy list. Bob has Alice on his buddy list. Carol is also buddies with Bob and with Alice. This could be seen as a clearance level. Any of the three may make posts tagged for their shared clearance level. These posts will be encrypted with a key only the three of them posses. There is also no solid layout for the forum, rather posts can be tagged by the submitter with whatever layout they want. Bob could make a post with the tag :Subforum = Drugs - Clearance Level = ABC - Title = Drugs for sale!: . When Alice and Carol get this post, it will show up in a subforum called drugs client side. Perhaps Carol also has a clearance level with Doug and Earl. If Doug or Earl make a post :Subforum = Drugs - Clearance Level = CDE - Title = Drugs for sale!: the post will be merged into Dougs thread client side for Carol, although due to the clearance level Alice and Bob will not be able to obtain the ciphertext of the post or know the key to decrypt it even if they could. If a post is quoted and replied to, the reply inherits the clearance level of the quoted post at its basis, although members can be subtracted. Technically members can be added as well, but it would require a malicious client for this to happen and it unfortunately impossible to protect from.

When posts are obtained it is done via a single use reply block. If Carol wants new posts, she creates a return path to her as well as layer encrypted Tau values and keys. She can send this through out the network with requests for posts she is of an appropriate clearance for. The posts then travel down her reply path gaining a layer of encryption at each node, before they are stored on the final node on her path. She can now connect to this node via Tor, download all new messages, decrypt the layers of encryption and integrate the new posts she is cleared for into her client side forum structure.

We also have plans for compromise detection systems. These will use Shamirs secret splitting algorithm. Alice may have a package of drugs at a PO box obtained with fake identification. She can encrypt a message saying "I am leaving to pick up drugs from Bob, this should take me five hours". Now she splits the key to decrypt this message with shamirs secret splitting algorithm and sends the shares to five of her friends as well as the ciphertext of the message, instructions on where to rendezvous the shares and a countdown timer. If Alice is compromised at the PO box, she will not be able to disable the warning before the timer runs out and her friends can become suspicious of Bob. If Alice makes it back in time she can disable the timer and as long as X% of her friends respect her wish to not decrypt the ciphertext nobody will learn she worked with Bob.

We also have a PM system for communications. The forum uses strong encryption, RSA 4,096 bit asymmetric, serpent-256 symmetric. Authentication of posts can be obtained with RSA signatures if it is desired, however anonymous posting will also be supported (with in the set size of the clearance level). Public keys are stored signed over a distributed table to protect from MITM (X% of nodes must cooperate to present false keys, and clients can check their own keys anonymously, so the nodes do not know which key to spoof for which key request). No unencrypted data is ever on the nodes, only on clients that are cleared for it. There is no single server to take out to shut down the forum(s), rather it is a distributed network. Clients can also act as storage nodes for holding messages for other clients. Even finding the mixes/clients will require compromising Tor. We have steganographic protocols to hide the fact that our system is being used from the Tor nodes, although in the end Tor bridges will of course be required to hide that Tor is being used.

We are thinking of ways to implement a distributed trust system on top of this, so if Alice trusts Carol and comes into contact with Bob (who carol trusts) at some later date, she can know that Bob is trusted by Carol. This will indeed probably be based off web of trust. I am not sure if anyone here knows the websites Undrugged or Safe or Scam. They are closed database vendor review websites. If you know a vendors contact information, you can type it in and find reviews left on the vendor / leave reviews yourself. If you don't know the vendors contact information, you can not find it. We want to integrate features like this into our system as well, but make it distributed. If you know a vendors contact information, you can request reviews from the distributed network. If you don't know the vendors contact information, you can't find it. We can probably use some algorithm similar to the ones used to confirm shared secrets with OTR for this. This way a member of the network can show other nodes strings that give them no data if they do not already know a vendors contact information, but allow them to determine that there is a shared vendor if they already know the contact information, and then share reviews on the vendor.

This is just the basics but it is what we are working on, and I think it will be far superior to the centralized drug vending sites and much harder for law enforcement to compromise. We have one full time programmer working on this and expect an open source beta sometime in June. If anyone is interested in helping make it feel free to volunteer.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mvgdr on April 20, 2011, 07:39:53 AM
Actually, the vast majority of child porn is created by teenagers with camera phones.
;D

Do you realy want to talk about CP? Do you realy know what CP is? Child Porn is not about two teenagers having sex, it is about adults raping kids (below 10 maybe).
Should everyone have the right to view/copy this stuff (without the approval of all performers)?


EDIT: @mvgdr (or whoever you are): My German teacher once said: "If you can't tell it short (summarised), you can't tell it." Please try to shorten up your posts, it is quite hard to read them.

Decentralized encrypted forum infrastructure on/over location hidden mix network with clearance based compartmentalization of posts/threads and each user controls their own contact list, no hierarchies or admins or mods.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: sirius on April 21, 2011, 08:52:30 AM
Split CP discussion to off-topic (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6232).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Cryptoman on April 21, 2011, 03:22:50 PM
We have one full time programmer working on this and expect an open source beta sometime in June. If anyone is interested in helping make it feel free to volunteer.

Are you accepting Bitcoin donations?  You could add a listing here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Donation-accepting_organizations_and_projects


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on April 26, 2011, 07:31:07 PM
Allthough I'd really not like to see any kidneys and slaves on silkroad, I don't see a point in disallowing fake ID's and passports.
Also, I think weapons should be sold (as long as they aren't weapons of mass destruction and stuff like napalm and agent orange). Things like pistols, knifes and such I'd like to see.
Also, I would like to tell that fraud CC's aren't really harming the single person who owns the CC, but rather the CC company as most of them give you back your stolen money. Friend of mine just got stolen 2400€ via his CC and he got it all back pretty easy (sic!)
Greets, M


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Inaba on April 26, 2011, 07:53:02 PM
How, exactly, would the weapons be transferred to the buyer?  Assuming we are speaking of illegal/restricted weapons.  Mailing them would be an exceptionally bad idea, because it's pretty obvious what's in the carton/crate, whereas sending drugs via mail, the x-ray doesn't look like much... but it's hard to disguise a weapon and lots of weapon parts.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on April 26, 2011, 08:27:02 PM
Well, I'd send it in like 3 envelopes disguised with some layers of aluminum foil. The ammunition should be multiple times vac sealed.
I guess that'd work.
Greets, M


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on April 26, 2011, 10:50:03 PM
and how many envelopes would AK-47 require? ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on April 27, 2011, 12:01:11 AM
I honestly don't think you'd have that much of a problem mailing it.
If you're talking about domestic then you'd probably be fine.
International would be a bigger issue.

I'm not suggesting it or basing this off anything I can link to.

Also you have to realize the only part that is illegal to mail without the FFL is the lower receiver as far as I know.
I could be wrong on that but I think you could send everything else fine, also I don't think you need an FFL to mail ammo but have never looked in to it, maybe it's a big deal.
I would guess 99+% chance it gets there no problem domestically. Just a guess though.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on April 27, 2011, 01:41:27 AM
Also, I would like to tell that fraud CC's aren't really harming the single person who owns the CC, but rather the CC company as most of them give you back your stolen money. Friend of mine just got stolen 2400€ via his CC and he got it all back pretty easy (sic!)
Greets, M
Lol where does the CC company get the money to reimburse you with? They get it from the fees that their customers pay. In other words, the customers pay for the fraud and as such experience harm.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: casascius on April 27, 2011, 06:02:07 AM
Also, I would like to tell that fraud CC's aren't really harming the single person who owns the CC, but rather the CC company as most of them give you back your stolen money. Friend of mine just got stolen 2400€ via his CC and he got it all back pretty easy (sic!)
Greets, M
Lol where does the CC company get the money to reimburse you with? They get it from the fees that their customers pay. In other words, the customers pay for the fraud and as such experience harm.

Knowing someone who works for a prominent data forensics firm, I am frequently told this:  If the CC companies can figure out how the card numbers got stolen (e.g. in a data breach or something), they will brazenly recoup their losses by tapping the credit card income of the merchant they consider responsible for the breach, until the losses are covered.  And they are fairly good at figuring out who to blame, simply by using algorithms that look for common points of purchase among cards that have been stolen.  They can usually nail it right down to the specific gas pump, or the specific web site, or the specific terminal that got hacked.  A five, six, or seven figure loss is very unwelcome to any small business, and the credit card companies couldn't care less if the business gets wiped out in the process.

They use that so-called "PCI DSS Compliance Questionnaire" to seal the deal.  Every merchant must certify themselves as PCI Compliant to avoid paying hefty fees, and that self-certification pretty much buries them in the event of a breach.  The rationale goes like this: "You certified that you do XYZ to protect CC#'s, clearly you did not, so all losses from this breach are your fault."

Someone suggested that CC theft is somehow OK because you're stealing from a bank, not an individual.  I would submit that stealing from a bank is still stealing and isn't somehow more justified just because they are a bank.  It is one thing to take a position that the war on drugs is a victimless non-crime, an ineffective misallocation of resources, an intrusion upon the freedom of adults.  It's yet another to start up a free-for-all that enables things like fraud and theft - things that are unmistakably criminal and detrimental to society - or makes things like weapons available to violent criminals and the mentally ill.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: deadlizard on April 27, 2011, 06:17:44 AM
or makes things like weapons available to violent criminals and the mentally ill.
How about making things like weapons available at all?
I live in a country where you need a firearms license to purchase airsoft guns, ffs


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FreeMoney on April 27, 2011, 06:21:31 AM
Also, I would like to tell that fraud CC's aren't really harming the single person who owns the CC, but rather the CC company as most of them give you back your stolen money. Friend of mine just got stolen 2400€ via his CC and he got it all back pretty easy (sic!)
Greets, M
Lol where does the CC company get the money to reimburse you with? They get it from the fees that their customers pay. In other words, the customers pay for the fraud and as such experience harm.

Knowing someone who works for a prominent data forensics firm, I am frequently told this:  If the CC companies can figure out how the card numbers got stolen (e.g. in a data breach or something), they will brazenly recoup their losses by tapping the credit card income of the merchant they consider responsible for the breach, until the losses are covered.  And they are fairly good at figuring out who to blame, simply by using algorithms that look for common points of purchase among cards that have been stolen.  They can usually nail it right down to the specific gas pump, or the specific web site, or the specific terminal that got hacked.  A five, six, or seven figure loss is very unwelcome to any small business, and the credit card companies couldn't care less if the business gets wiped out in the process.

They use that so-called "PCI DSS Compliance Questionnaire" to seal the deal.  Every merchant must certify themselves as PCI Compliant to avoid paying hefty fees, and that self-certification pretty much buries them in the event of a breach.  The rationale goes like this: "You certified that you do XYZ to protect CC#'s, clearly you did not, so all losses from this breach are your fault."

Someone suggested that CC theft is somehow OK because you're stealing from a bank, not an individual.  I would submit that stealing from a bank is still stealing and isn't somehow more justified just because they are a bank.  It is one thing to take a position that the war on drugs is a victimless non-crime, an ineffective misallocation of resources, an intrusion upon the freedom of adults.  It's yet another to start up a free-for-all that enables things like fraud and theft - things that are unmistakably criminal and detrimental to society - or makes things like weapons available to violent criminals and the mentally ill.

Sounds like good reason not to use CC companies as a merchant.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: fetokun on April 27, 2011, 06:23:52 AM
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6232.0


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: gusti on April 27, 2011, 06:26:51 AM
or makes things like weapons available to violent criminals and the mentally ill.
How about making things like weapons available at all?
I live in a country where you need a firearms license to purchase airsoft guns, ffs

Do the "bad guys" need a license to carry firearms, too ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: casascius on April 27, 2011, 06:56:58 AM
Quote
...If the CC companies can figure out how the card numbers got stolen (e.g. in a data breach or something), they will brazenly recoup their losses by tapping the credit card income of the merchant they consider responsible for the breach, until the losses are covered...

Sounds like good reason not to use CC companies as a merchant.

Not to defend the CC companies, but use of Bitcoin is just as vulnerable... What's the difference between an e-commerce outfit losing wallet.dat versus a bunch of CC numbers?  Either way, they're screwed


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: gusti on April 27, 2011, 07:12:03 AM
Quote
...If the CC companies can figure out how the card numbers got stolen (e.g. in a data breach or something), they will brazenly recoup their losses by tapping the credit card income of the merchant they consider responsible for the breach, until the losses are covered...

Sounds like good reason not to use CC companies as a merchant.

Not to defend the CC companies, but use of Bitcoin is just as vulnerable... What's the difference between an e-commerce outfit losing wallet.dat versus a bunch of CC numbers?  Either way, they're screwed

The difference is that transactions are final, not reversible, and you will not be screwed by any bank or CC company.
You only need to secure your wallet/s and you are ok.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: deadlizard on April 27, 2011, 10:02:02 AM
or makes things like weapons available to violent criminals and the mentally ill.
How about making things like weapons available at all?
I live in a country where you need a firearms license to purchase airsoft guns, ffs

Do the "bad guys" need a license to carry firearms, too ?
exactly my point. There is no way to discriminate therefore you always take the risk of selling to violent criminals.
but the idea was that it's o.k to sell drugs because the laws are stupid
But in some places all forms of self protection are illegal. Isn't that equally as stupid?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: gusti on April 27, 2011, 12:56:33 PM
or makes things like weapons available to violent criminals and the mentally ill.
How about making things like weapons available at all?
I live in a country where you need a firearms license to purchase airsoft guns, ffs

Do the "bad guys" need a license to carry firearms, too ?
exactly my point. There is no way to discriminate therefore you always take the risk of selling to violent criminals.
but the idea was that it's o.k to sell drugs because the laws are stupid
But in some places all forms of self protection are illegal. Isn't that equally as stupid?

I mean, the licensing restrictions is for the good guys, people like you and me.
What happens when I need to defend my property, my family ?
Without weapons, do I have to trust the 911 ? 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on April 30, 2011, 05:17:40 AM
A friend of mine has been following the discussion regarding SilkRoad and decided to check it out. He emailed me this blurb from the "new listing" page.

Quote
Restrictions
Please do not list forged documents including fake ids, passports, and counterfeit currency.
Please do not list anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud, such as stolen credit cards, assassinations, and weapons of mass destruction (chemical/bio weaponry, nukes, and anything used to make them).
* See below for details

* These restrictions are in place for both practical and idealogical reasons.

Practically speaking, there are many powerful adversaries of Silk Road and if we are to survive, we must not take them all on at once. Additionally, if you try to please everyone, you will wind up pleasing no one. So certain things are restricted just so we don't scare too many off.

On a moral level, we take the high road, pun intended ;). Those who seek to control the behavior of their neighbors through force are immoral. Silk Road exists to circumvent that force and provide a safe-haven where civilized people can come together in peace for mutual benefit. To allow listings of items designed to defraud or harm innocent people would be to stoop to the level of the very people we are standing up to.

If you are unsure about a listing, just drop us a line and we'll let you know.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on May 07, 2011, 12:57:16 AM
Quote
...If the CC companies can figure out how the card numbers got stolen (e.g. in a data breach or something), they will brazenly recoup their losses by tapping the credit card income of the merchant they consider responsible for the breach, until the losses are covered...

Sounds like good reason not to use CC companies as a merchant.

Not to defend the CC companies, but use of Bitcoin is just as vulnerable... What's the difference between an e-commerce outfit losing wallet.dat versus a bunch of CC numbers?  Either way, they're screwed

Either way they are, but the long term damage would be worse out of CC, because it's not an immediate loss to the company who got hacked, but is an image loss as they put their customers at stake. - OK, solution 2.0a; move town or change name.
wallet.dat file would represent damage to the store alone, not their customers.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: LeonGeeste on May 07, 2011, 08:37:24 PM
Silk road is down now, I haven't gotten to see what it looks like when functional.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on May 07, 2011, 08:46:52 PM
It's working OK for me.
There are short outages sometimes, but it's usually more to do with Tor itself than SilkRoad.
Try again


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: LeonGeeste on May 07, 2011, 08:48:51 PM
It's working OK for me.
There are short outages sometimes, but it's usually more to do with Tor itself than SilkRoad.
Try again

It says:

"The Silk Road is currently closed to new visitors. This will be reviewed on May 1st and the site will possibly be reopened. Sorry for the inconvenience :( "

Am I supposed to access it through TOR or something?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on May 07, 2011, 08:50:42 PM
 ;D
Yes. http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/
While you're there you may also wanna visit the hidden wiki http://kpvz7ki2v5agwt35.onion/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: LeonGeeste on May 07, 2011, 08:53:36 PM
;D
Yes. http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/
While you're there you may also wanna visit the hidden wiki http://kpvz7ki2v5agwt35.onion/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Oh.  I've never used TOR before.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on May 07, 2011, 08:56:19 PM
Assuming you are running windows and just curious, download Tor browser bundle and you won't have to install anything. It's as easy as opening your normal browser
https://www.torproject.org/download/download.html.en


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: divergenta on May 12, 2011, 05:27:39 PM
Sorry for being such a retard but are silkroad up and running or not?


I get the following error when trying to access the links mention above:


504 Connect to www.ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: General SOCKS server failure

The following error occurred while trying to access http://www.ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/:

504 Connect to www.ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: General SOCKS server failure
Generated Thu, 12 May 2011 19:24:46 CEST by Polipo on YADAYADA:8118.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: elewton on May 12, 2011, 05:35:43 PM
Have you tried it without the "www."s?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: divergenta on May 12, 2011, 05:49:09 PM
There was the problem.

Thank you very much!  ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on May 15, 2011, 01:19:55 PM
Quote
"The Silk Road is currently unavailable while we update the site.  The update is taking a little longer than expected.  The site will be back up Sunday, May 15th.  Thank you for your patience."


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: deadlizard on May 15, 2011, 01:26:35 PM
Quote
"The Silk Road is currently unavailable while we update the site.  The update is taking a little longer than expected.  The site will be back up Sunday, May 15th.  Thank you for your patience."
what I thought I'd do was I'd pretend I was one of those deaf mutes  ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on May 15, 2011, 01:55:11 PM
Quote
Sitting alone,
resting alone,
walking alone,
untiring.
Taming himself,
he'd delight alone —
    alone in the forest.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: CryptikEnigma on May 15, 2011, 09:50:34 PM
Site was up earlier today(after the maintenance downtime yesterday), but now it seems down again, anyone else having the same problem?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on May 15, 2011, 11:29:58 PM
yea looks like it's down


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on May 18, 2011, 11:45:34 PM
Hi everyone,

We did a big update of the site over the weekend and are happy to say that it's back up and running!  New features include:
- an integrated bitcoin tumbler
- an integrated bitcoin eWallet
- dynamic pricing to smooth out exchange rate fluctuations
- a much more transparent ordering process
- reorganized categories and improved item browsing

and more!

We hope you enjoy it.  Shoot us a message there if you have any questions, concerns, or just want to say hi :)

http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: NoValues on May 18, 2011, 11:48:17 PM
Loving the updates


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on May 18, 2011, 11:51:56 PM
You used the Thai bhat symbol? Really? I am disappoint.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on May 19, 2011, 01:36:06 AM
You used the Thai bhat symbol? Really? I am disappoint.
What's your opinion on what the currency symbol should be? I havent quite decided myself, but I'm stuck between the thai baht and the Circled B.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on May 19, 2011, 02:23:03 AM
You used the Thai bhat symbol? Really? I am disappoint.
What's your opinion on what the currency symbol should be? I havent quite decided myself, but I'm stuck between the thai baht and the Circled B.
BTC. It may not count as a symbol, but it is a unique abbreviation that makes sense. I was a big advocate of ⓑ, but I don't really see the point of a symbol anymore. The Thai bhat just grates me though because it's boring, unoriginal, and a cliché. Anyway, it's off topic.

I'm still disappoint though.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on May 19, 2011, 02:53:05 AM

BTC could get confused with Bacon, Tomato and Carrot


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on May 19, 2011, 02:58:33 AM

BTC could get confused with Bacon, Tomato and Carrot
What confusion? Bitcoin runs on bacon, tomatoes, carrots. Doesn't it?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on May 19, 2011, 06:13:03 AM

BTC could get confused with Bacon, Tomato and Carrot
Is that not what we were discussing the symbol for? This is the bacon, tomato, and carrot forum, is it not?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 42kang on May 19, 2011, 07:09:27 AM
When I try and do anything in firefox v3.6.17 with the TOR plug in it says:

"The proxy server is refusing connections

Firefox is configured to use a proxy server that is refusing connections.

    *   Check the proxy settings to make sure that they are correct.

    *   Contact your network administrator to make sure the proxy server is
          working."

Suggestions?




       
       
     


     
     


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on May 19, 2011, 10:45:10 AM
When I try and do anything in firefox v3.6.17 with the TOR plug in it says:

"The proxy server is refusing connections

Firefox is configured to use a proxy server that is refusing connections.

    *   Check the proxy settings to make sure that they are correct.

    *   Contact your network administrator to make sure the proxy server is
          working."

Suggestions?
     

You need to have Tor running. The Tor-plugin just configures your FF to use Polipo/Privoxy as Proxy doesn't include Tor itself.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: elewton on May 19, 2011, 10:49:13 AM
The easiest thing to do is to download the Tor Browser Bundle.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 42kang on May 19, 2011, 10:50:58 AM
doh, thanks bud.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: evilpothead on May 20, 2011, 09:22:19 AM
hey guise:) 

feedback for idea: *****
feedback for community: *****

now, I haven't bought anything yet. Cause i would like to discuss some issues 1st. So, say i order something, what details would i give..I would need to give a valid phone number for the courier service to contact me. Tell me what you did

I am a bit worried that at some point the package will be scanned or somehow checked. So the cops/courier service will know whats inside.

whats your thoughts on all this


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on May 20, 2011, 01:06:38 PM
Most sellers ship via postal service I believe. At least in the US I believe they need a warrant to open mail. Don't use your real name if you can avoid it, and if you know of a place other than your home that you can securely/anonymously receive a package, use that address. Don't include a phone number.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: protagonist on May 20, 2011, 01:21:42 PM
Can anyone actually access Silk Road since last weekend?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on May 20, 2011, 02:06:50 PM
From TorDir:

Last check unix timestamp: 1305832581
Last status: On
Delay: 80 seconds
Successful checks: 85
Failure checks: 109


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ϛ on May 20, 2011, 02:49:22 PM
Can anyone actually access Silk Road since last weekend?
I've been on it everyday since last weekend.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Wdave on May 21, 2011, 04:37:12 AM
Seems like The Silk Road is down at the moment.  :-\


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ϛ on May 21, 2011, 04:47:52 AM
Seems like The Silk Road is down at the moment.  :-\
Up for me.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: pasqal on May 24, 2011, 08:00:57 PM
I'm new to Silk Road, the anonymous newsletter pointed me here. SR sounds like a great idea, but its website says it's closed to new visitors...? I'd really like access, is there anything I can do to arrange it?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: cuddlefish on May 24, 2011, 08:03:25 PM
I'm new to Silk Road, the anonymous newsletter pointed me here. SR sounds like a great idea, but its website says it's closed to new visitors...? I'd really like access, is there anything I can do to arrange it?

You need to come through Tor.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on May 25, 2011, 06:01:19 PM
Hi there I'm working on a project somehow similar to "Silk Road" called:

http://bitcoinaction.com/ (http://bitcoinaction.com/)

We want to collect 1000 email in 30days of people interested to get Bitcoin deals similar to Groupon. If you like the idea please leave your mail, if you don't please tell me why :)

I think having a critical mass (aka lobbying) could be critical when it comes to convince business to accept BTCs.

How is this in any way like Silk Road? Have you even been there?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on May 27, 2011, 05:14:51 PM
Silk Road is building a market place via tor, on an eBay kind of model.

Yes. Though it's only like eBay in that sellers receive feedback.

Apart from "marketplace", what's similar about your service? Again, have you been to Silk Road? The types of things that are sold there aren't exactly conducive to a Groupon type thing. I doubt "much higher exposure" is on the list of goals for SR sellers.

And on top of that, you want to convince businesses to accept BTC with it, so you can't be similar to SR. I'm sure a business would love to run a "deal" on such a site.  ::)

I'm not saying that "Groupon with bitcoins" is necessarily a terrible idea. I'm saying it's completely unrelated to SR and advertising it here is basically spam.

Also I'm not sure what "a lot of bitcoin owners but very few bitcoin sellers" means. People selling bitcoins? People selling things for bitcoins? There aren't as many people taking BTC as payment as we'd like, but the way to change that isn't "Hey, offer a discount for paying in this currency that you don't even know exists."


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on May 27, 2011, 06:37:57 PM
He's spamming his site all over the forum.

In other news...

Has anyone considered that Silk Road (and other similar sites) actually makes the drug trade less, in spite of prohibition? Consider the combination anonymity, escrow/arbitration, and a reputation system.

Reputation allows buyers to make informed decisions, escrow gives both buyer and seller added protection against fraud, arbitration gives both parties a non-violent recourse to disputes, and anonymity protects against any violent recourse outside the system. Notably, anonymity not only protects from violent recourse from other traders, but also from law enforcement.

Just something I was thinking about...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on May 27, 2011, 06:45:59 PM
Has anyone considered that Silk Road (and other similar sites) actually makes the drug trade less, in spite of prohibition? Consider the combination anonymity, escrow/arbitration, and a reputation system.

Reputation allows buyers to make informed decisions, escrow gives both buyer and seller added protection against fraud, arbitration gives both parties a non-violent recourse to disputes, and anonymity protects against any violent recourse outside the system. Notably, anonymity not only protects from violent recourse from other traders, but also from law enforcement.

Just something I was thinking about...
I think Silk Road is still a little too esoteric to make much of a difference, but, yes, I agree. It means less business for the dealers at the ends of distribution chains who do nasty things and/or try too hard to make friends with customers.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :) - apparently WORKS
Post by: NYBooDah on June 01, 2011, 06:15:21 PM
So check out this article:

http://zenfaster.com/2011/06/01/silk-road-drugs-delivered-to-your-door/

Based on the article it Silk Road works... and people are pretty happy. Interesting story too... donno how this exists, but they seemed to make it work.

It's basically a how to order drugs online through Silk Road... crazy.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: chops666 on June 01, 2011, 07:52:03 PM
iv followed all the steps. ive downloaded tor, its running. i close and reopen fire fox and then click on the link again to go to it and it says its down till july 1st. i have a MacBook Pro. is there anything else i need to do?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 01, 2011, 08:22:30 PM
If you're too retarded to figure it out we don't want you there. There's already been a bunch of articles about it published which will probably ruin the site.
FFS don't be such a bogart.

iv followed all the steps. ive downloaded tor, its running. i close and reopen fire fox and then click on the link again to go to it and it says its down till july 1st. i have a MacBook Pro. is there anything else i need to do?
If that's what Silk Road's Tor Hidden Service (the .onion site) says, then you'll just have to wait.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: chops666 on June 01, 2011, 08:26:05 PM
thanks mcgruder. i just want to share my hobby with people. the other dude didnt need to be a dick.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 01, 2011, 08:34:35 PM
thanks mcgruder. i just want to share my hobby with people. the other dude didnt need to be a dick.

I think you might be visiting the landing page on the regular internet, not the Silk Road itself. Try this link (http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion) instead.

Also, I would highly recommend downloading the Tor browser bundle (https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en) in order to use Tor in the most secure way possible.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 01, 2011, 09:33:59 PM
thanks mcgruder. i just want to share my hobby with people. the other dude didnt need to be a dick.
Hey man, an injury to one is an injury to all.

I just checked and the site is up. I forgot how much I hate the use of the Thai bhat symbol for bitcoin. Why, Silk Road, why? But I digress. Try this link (http://tydgccykixpbu6uz.onion/) if BitterTea's doesn't work. Tor can be finicky, so be patient.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: hobojoe on June 01, 2011, 10:38:57 PM
I just installed Tor and I have it running in Firefox but it's going incredibly slow, taking up to 30 seconds to load a single page.  I'm also getting a "Proxy error: 502 Server dropped connection" message when I try to connect to Silk Road.  I don't really care about running Tor outside of getting to Silk Road but if anyone can help with one/both of these issues I'd appreciate it, and if Tor normally runs this slowly then at least I know it's not just me.

P.S. if it matters I'm running at least 18mbps when I just checked on Chrome, so it's not just a slightly slowed connection.

Edit: never mind, it took about six tries but I managed to connect.  If anyone still wants to explain the slow Tor issue that's fine but not necessary


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 01, 2011, 10:46:14 PM
I just installed Tor and I have it running in Firefox but it's going incredibly slow, taking up to 30 seconds to load a single page.  I'm also getting a "Proxy error: 502 Server dropped connection" message when I try to connect to Silk Road.  I don't really care about running Tor outside of getting to Silk Road but if anyone can help with one/both of these issues I'd appreciate it, and if Tor normally runs this slowly then at least I know it's not just me.

P.S. if it matters I'm running at least 18mbps when I just checked on Chrome, so it's not just a slightly slowed connection.

Two things.

1) At this particular moment, the entire Internet seems to be bogged down.

2) Tor does run slower than surfing normally, by it's nature.  That's unavoidable.  But you should still be able to get there if your tor client has reported that a circut has been established.  It can take a while for a new install to establish a first circut.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Piff102287 on June 02, 2011, 12:42:51 AM
i cant really access silk road idk how to configure vidalia for my tor service please help, nor do i know how i can access the site


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on June 02, 2011, 12:52:17 AM
Trying to configure vidalia without some networking/security knowledge is asking for trouble. Download browser bundle and use that.
Site is at: http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/
But do yourself a favor - don't do anything stupid, like buying stuff, before you learn about anonymity online. Just because you downloaded a piece of software doesn't mean you are under the radar. I bet there will be arrests after these resent articles

Hidden wiki might be of interest too:
http://kpvz7ki2v5agwt35.onion/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: coolnigh on June 02, 2011, 02:40:58 AM
registering with Silk Road was the easy part.  I can't figure out how to buy bitcoins, and i've tried most of the recommended exchange sites.  there has to be a simple way for me to use paypal or my bank account for purchases, no?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ron on June 02, 2011, 02:44:52 AM
registering with Silk Road was the easy part.  I can't figure out how to buy bitcoins, and i've tried most of the recommended exchange sites.  there has to be a simple way for me to use paypal or my bank account for purchases, no?

ebay usually has one auction going. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330568092684&category=169305&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_500wt_1156


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on June 02, 2011, 02:46:28 AM
registering with Silk Road was the easy part.  I can't figure out how to buy bitcoins, and i've tried most of the recommended exchange sites.  there has to be a simple way for me to use paypal or my bank account for purchases, no?

It is only when try to escape, that you will know you were not free.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 02, 2011, 02:49:12 AM
registering with Silk Road was the easy part.  I can't figure out how to buy bitcoins, and i've tried most of the recommended exchange sites.  there has to be a simple way for me to use paypal or my bank account for purchases, no?

mtgox accepts bank wires and Dwolla.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: blap on June 02, 2011, 02:49:44 AM
if you do not care about crypto, change .onion for .tor2web.com:
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/
will be
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz..tor2web.com/
with this change, you not need tor or anything else, but you loss the crypto.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 02, 2011, 03:56:50 AM
if you do not care about crypto, change .onion for .tor2web.com:
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/
will be
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz..tor2web.com/
with this change, you not need tor or anything else, but you loss the crypto.

This is not recommended at all for anything other than browsing. You lose all privacy, as all data sent back from Silk Road as well as all data you enter is transmitted in clear text to the proxy. They would have your name, address, bitcoin address, items purchased, etc.

Do not use this if you are buying from Silk Road.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 02, 2011, 04:27:01 AM
Seconded regarding use of Tor2web. It appears that anybody can set up a little VPS and become part of the tor2web thing, and then they can capture all the traffic passing through that node on the way into Tor.

Using tor2web is not recommended for anything that might be remotely sensitive.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: aspirant on June 02, 2011, 09:23:15 AM
Thanks guys, very useful posts. I'm new to bitcoin and Thor.

I was wondering where I should go to study up on securing my internet and stuff.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Marcus on June 02, 2011, 10:42:20 AM


ebay usually has one auction going.  

Thanks, Ron, for posting link to that auction on eBay.  I was just in time, and won that auction.  So now am the proud owner of my first 10 Bitcoins.  

Perhaps it will help other newcomers (like myself), and to avoid getting off topic here, I posted some thoughts about a beginner (me) using eBay for Bitcoin on another thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10982.0 (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10982.0)  


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: caveden on June 02, 2011, 10:49:23 AM
I can't figure out how to buy bitcoins, and i've tried most of the recommended exchange sites.  there has to be a simple way for me to use paypal or my bank account for purchases, no?

Not paypal, no. They've forbidden the selling of bitcoins. And even for those who don't care, selling bitcoins for paypal is somehow dangerous since paypal transfers are reversible while bitcoin transfers are not.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Marcus on June 02, 2011, 10:57:39 AM
Not paypal, no. They've forbidden the selling of bitcoins. And even for those who don't care, selling bitcoins for paypal is somehow dangerous since paypal transfers are reversible while bitcoin transfers are not.

Thank you, Caveden, for posting about that.  Important to know.  I see this thread topic is devoted to Silk Road feedback.  Is there a thread on this forum devoted to the PayPal situation?   Since I just used PayPal to pay for Bitcoins a few minutes ago -- via an eBay auction -- I would be most interested in such a thread topic.  


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: caveden on June 02, 2011, 11:16:08 AM
If you bought bitcoins with paypal you should be fine, it's the seller who take some risks.
You'll find many threads about paypal here. :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: hans030390 on June 02, 2011, 08:58:21 PM
I recently found out about Silk Road through an article on Kotaku, which contained quite specific instructions on how to use it...then I realized that this "news" had spread to quite a few other websites. Is anyone else worried about the potential attention this might attract?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 02, 2011, 08:59:43 PM
I recently found out about Silk Road through an article on Kotaku, which contained quite specific instructions on how to use it...then I realized that this "news" had spread to quite a few other websites. Is anyone else worried about the potential attention this might attract?

Um, no?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: omey on June 02, 2011, 09:23:37 PM
It seems like the site is down?

I'm running TOR fine, and could access the site yesterday, but now I get a:

'504 Connect to www.ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: General SOCKS server failure'


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 02, 2011, 09:32:27 PM
It seems like the site is down?

I'm running TOR fine, and could access the site yesterday, but now I get a:

'504 Connect to www.ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: General SOCKS server failure'

I take it you run Windoze?  This is a local error.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: hans030390 on June 02, 2011, 10:12:33 PM
I recently found out about Silk Road through an article on Kotaku, which contained quite specific instructions on how to use it...then I realized that this "news" had spread to quite a few other websites. Is anyone else worried about the potential attention this might attract?

Um, no?

Ha, ok then. I just figured that something like this wouldn't benefit from a bunch of attention. I think one of the news articles that reposted it mentioned that a DEA agent could potentially post something for sale (or buy?), which wouldn't be good. I figure there's at least someone in the DEA that could figure out how to use it.

But, hey, if you aren't worried, then that's a relief.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 02, 2011, 10:27:24 PM
I recently found out about Silk Road through an article on Kotaku, which contained quite specific instructions on how to use it...then I realized that this "news" had spread to quite a few other websites. Is anyone else worried about the potential attention this might attract?

Um, no?

Ha, ok then. I just figured that something like this wouldn't benefit from a bunch of attention. I think one of the news articles that reposted it mentioned that a DEA agent could potentially post something for sale (or buy?), which wouldn't be good. I figure there's at least someone in the DEA that could figure out how to use it.

But, hey, if you aren't worried, then that's a relief.

If it can't handle attention then it is not secure enough to trust in the first place.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: dropper25 on June 03, 2011, 02:54:50 AM
any chance you guys at the silk road r gunna accept anything besides bitcoins? im super new to everything bitcoin and have no idea wtf im doing. i tried mining with no results. i tried to buy some but couldnt figure it out. i downloaded a bunch of different programs and each one seemed like it needed another one to work.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 03, 2011, 03:32:30 AM
I really doubt they will ever accept anything but a distributed pseudonymus currency.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 03, 2011, 06:18:08 AM
this is still the most significant contribution to the BTC economy so I think. good work silk roaders.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: cptinsan0 on June 03, 2011, 07:03:01 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/06/libertarian-dream-a-site-where-you-buy-drugs-with-digital-dollars/239776/


If you visit the bitcoin wiki page on anonymity --
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity -- the first sentence is

    While the Bitcoin technology can support[link] strong anonymity,
    the current implementation is usually not very anonymous.

With bitcoin, every transaction is written to a globally public log, and the lineage of each coin is fully traceable from transaction to transaction. Thus, /transaction flow/ is easily visible to well-known network analysis techniques, already employed in the field by FBI/NSA/CIA/etc. to detect suspicious money flows and "chatter."  With Gavin, bitcoin lead developer, speaking at a CIA conference this month, it is not a stretch to surmise that the CIA likely already classifies bitcoin as open source intelligence (no pun intended).

Further, if Silk Road truly permits deposits on their site, that makes it even easier for law enforcement to locate the "hub" of transactions.

Attempting major illicit transactions with bitcoin, given existing statistical analysis techniques deployed in the field by law enforcement, is pretty damned dumb.  :)



HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Now I think this is great in theory...but what the FUCK people?!?!? REALLY!?? Honestly thinking this is a legit way to do things...lmfao


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: AaronM on June 03, 2011, 07:13:34 AM
Well, current practices are definitely not providing the anonymity people desire, there are a lot of things people can do to improve that.  For one thing, always use an anonymizer to hid submitted transactions.

The tradeoff for good anonymity is the time it takes for the funds to be transferred from buyer to seller -- a lot of time is needed to hide the origin of bitcoins.

Other than IP addresses, various things to consider are secure communication of addresses (both bitcoin and postal), amount sizes, the "roundness" of number (compare these amounts: 1000, 1986.62, 1986.62792413).  The standard bitcoin client is probably not the best tool for this -- more fine-grained control is needed.

Alternatively, there could be truly anonymous virtual currencies established that are redeemable for bitcoins.  One implementation idea is: http://www.echeque.com/Kong/anon_transfer.htm (http://www.echeque.com/Kong/anon_transfer.htm)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on June 03, 2011, 08:22:38 AM

An Open Transactions layer on top of bitcoin would provide true anonymity if somebody wanted it,

https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki

client gui
https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger

Just issue your own truly anonymous, bitcoin-backed currency  :)

But it transfers much of the financial risk to a centralised issuer of the bitcoin-backed OT tokens, unless there were a network of OT servers or someone large like a bank or MtGox (which is already a somewhat centralised risk anyway).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 03, 2011, 08:52:28 AM

An Open Transactions layer on top of bitcoin would provide true anonymity if somebody wanted it,

https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki

client gui
https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger

Just issue your own truly anonymous, bitcoin-backed currency  :)

But it transfers much of the financial risk to a centralised issuer of the bitcoin-backed OT tokens, unless there were a network of OT servers or someone large like a bank or MtGox (which is already a somewhat centralised risk anyway).

I was just discussing with a friend the idea of a Bitcoin bank that existed solely in cipherspace. In order to establish trust and hedge against risk, the bank could create an account accessible by some majority of investors in case of fraud, theft, or data loss. Perhaps this could be done with a multi-signed transaction?

It seems like OpenTransactions provides the perfect toolset to do this on top of Bitcoin. I'm pretty sure I've seen discussion on ways for some entity to prove that it is holding full reserves.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on June 03, 2011, 09:12:45 AM

An Open Transactions layer on top of bitcoin would provide true anonymity if somebody wanted it,

https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki

client gui
https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger

Just issue your own truly anonymous, bitcoin-backed currency  :)

But it transfers much of the financial risk to a centralised issuer of the bitcoin-backed OT tokens, unless there were a network of OT servers or someone large like a bank or MtGox (which is already a somewhat centralised risk anyway).

I was just discussing with a friend the idea of a Bitcoin bank that existed solely in cipherspace. In order to establish trust and hedge against risk, the bank could create an account accessible by some majority of investors in case of fraud, theft, or data loss. Perhaps this could be done with a multi-signed transaction?

It seems like OpenTransactions provides the perfect toolset to do this on top of Bitcoin. I'm pretty sure I've seen discussion on ways for some entity to prove that it is holding full reserves.

For some assets you issue will need to prove reserves somehow.

But for bitcoin-backed OT currencies I'm not sure that you will even have to prove reserves, but do not quote me on that because I need to look into it some more. May depend on how the issuing is performed. The whole thing could be put up on Tor, call them TorCoin, issued from an OT server driven Tor-issuer ... right next door to the Tor shop of your choosing.

Definitely worth a look and looks like the development is on-going, pretty close to having something functional I'd say.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 03, 2011, 12:25:20 PM
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/06/libertarian-dream-a-site-where-you-buy-drugs-with-digital-dollars/239776/


If you visit the bitcoin wiki page on anonymity --
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity -- the first sentence is

    While the Bitcoin technology can support[link] strong anonymity,
    the current implementation is usually not very anonymous.

With bitcoin, every transaction is written to a globally public log, and the lineage of each coin is fully traceable from transaction to transaction. Thus, /transaction flow/ is easily visible to well-known network analysis techniques, already employed in the field by FBI/NSA/CIA/etc. to detect suspicious money flows and "chatter."  With Gavin, bitcoin lead developer, speaking at a CIA conference this month, it is not a stretch to surmise that the CIA likely already classifies bitcoin as open source intelligence (no pun intended).

Further, if Silk Road truly permits deposits on their site, that makes it even easier for law enforcement to locate the "hub" of transactions.

Attempting major illicit transactions with bitcoin, given existing statistical analysis techniques deployed in the field by law enforcement, is pretty damned dumb.  :)



HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Now I think this is great in theory...but what the FUCK people?!?!? REALLY!?? Honestly thinking this is a legit way to do things...lmfao
So, authorities can follow transactions between addresses with no names attached to them that, in the case of Mt. Gox and Silk Road, don't get reused. How would they find that useful? How is that less secure than cash in the mail?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ene on June 03, 2011, 01:08:55 PM
So, authorities can follow transactions between addresses with no names attached to them that, in the case of Mt. Gox and Silk Road, don't get reused. How would they find that useful? How is that less secure than cash in the mail?

Nobody said it's less secure than cash in mail. Just that it's imperfect.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 03, 2011, 02:23:21 PM
So, authorities can follow transactions between addresses with no names attached to them that, in the case of Mt. Gox and Silk Road, don't get reused. How would they find that useful? How is that less secure than cash in the mail?

Nobody said it's less secure than cash in mail. Just that it's imperfect.

Perfection is the enemy of the good.  I see a great future in Bitcoin because it's a world better, not because I think it's perfect.  But even acknowledging that it could be improved does not mean that I would favor screwing with it over small gains.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 03, 2011, 08:13:07 PM
It seems like the site is down?

I'm running TOR fine, and could access the site yesterday, but now I get a:

'504 Connect to www.ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion:80 failed: General SOCKS server failure'

Tor hidden service addresses don't use "www." So remove that and you'll be fine.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Locke on June 03, 2011, 09:32:41 PM
I am especially interested in hearing from anyone with alot of experience in network security about how to improve the anonymity of the site beyond running it as a tor hidden service.  How would YOU do it?  What are some worse case scenarios?

Well, as was previously mentioned in this thread, you might want to look into TrueCrypt (http://www.truecrypt.org/).  It's not network security, per sae, but it is pretty much the best hard-drive encryption method currently out there.  You can also encrypt your entire OS.  Plus there's always hidden recessed volumes.  Basically what it means that if the server (god forbid) ever gets seized the feds/etc have virtually zero* chance of reading any of the stored data.  It's well worth looking into IMO.  I'll leave the network security discussion up to others, as it's not really my forte.  Just make sure you keep all your software, expecially databases, php installs, etc etc etc up-to-date as that should protect you against the most common inject attempts, etc.

*Yes, I know cold boot attacks are theoretically an issue.  That said, they've had problems doing them in labratory settings never mind in the real world.  Not a big risk, IMO


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Drifter on June 05, 2011, 03:30:19 PM
Senators Target Internet Narcotics Trafficking Website Silk Road (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/05/senators-internet-narcotics-_n_871466.html)

Edit: Didn't notice until now this topic was already posted in the press thread, but from Sac. Bee and not Huffington Post. Bitcoin isn't mentioned in either article, though.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 05, 2011, 08:01:56 PM
Senators Target Internet Narcotics Trafficking Website Silk Road (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/05/senators-internet-narcotics-_n_871466.html)

Edit: Didn't notice until now this topic was already posted in the press thread, but from Sac. Bee and not Huffington Post. Bitcoin isn't mentioned in either article, though.

Didn't you see the big fat (AP) at the beginning, indicating that it came from the Associated Press?

Anyway, I guess they're climbin up in our windows now! You need to hide your kids, hide your wife and hide your husband cuz they're rapin everybody out here!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Drifter on June 05, 2011, 08:14:05 PM
Didn't you see the big fat (AP) at the beginning, indicating that it came from the Associated Press?


As I said, I didnt know the article was posted on the forum already before I posted it here.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: natobombs on June 06, 2011, 12:50:16 AM
Hey, I keep trying to access the site with tor enabled, i was able to get to the main page a couple of times however whenever i tried to get to one of the categories or sellers i get the 502: Server dropped connection.

Now I'm not even able to access the main page without this error, any thoughts? I just downloaded Tor, does it take time to function properly?

Thanks for the help, I'd really like to start shopping


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 06, 2011, 01:03:04 AM
I would guess that Silk Road is overloaded from all the publicity it's gotten recently.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on June 06, 2011, 01:12:11 AM
I would guess that Silk Road is overloaded from all the publicity it's gotten recently.

Does it even exist? I've never been able to find it. I think it might be some joke they are playing on the politicians ... it just sounds too far-fetched to be possible.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 06, 2011, 01:36:28 AM
I would guess that Silk Road is overloaded from all the publicity it's gotten recently.

Does it even exist? I've never been able to find it. I think it might be some joke they are playing on the politicians ... it just sounds too far-fetched to be possible.
It did at one time.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 06, 2011, 01:40:15 AM
I would guess that Silk Road is overloaded from all the publicity it's gotten recently.

Does it even exist? I've never been able to find it. I think it might be some joke they are playing on the politicians ... it just sounds too far-fetched to be possible.

Yes, it's up right now. I just went and looked.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Atheros on June 06, 2011, 04:23:34 AM
They keep calling it a website and it isn't a website. It isn't on the web.

The only reason the democratic senators are bringing it up now is to deflect attention from the giant weiner Weiner is proud to not admit isn't his.

Schumer could easily come out of this looking very foolish if users don't leave Silk Road. :-\

And I like Schumer too. :(


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 05:15:33 AM
As a long-time anti-drug war activist I am of two minds on Silk Road.  I guess it's all about intentions and so far the only intention I can gather is that it's about the money.  Nonetheless, intentional or not, SR makes a profound statement as to the failure of governments to adopt rational and compassionate drug policies.

After three-weeks and only a handful of transactions it can hardly be considered a major player in the trafficking of cannabis and narcotics.  Although with the recent press and now US Senate action pending, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.  And, what, if any, impact it might have on the global legalization/normalization of drugs movement.  So, for the time-being I'll consider Silk Road as an act of non-violent civil-disobedience, and cheer it on in that spirit. 

However, SR is designed to fail - the real black-market and their political puppets simply will not allow it to succeed.  They will not hesitate to use any means at their disposal to shut it down.  Here in the US we still arrest and jail medical cannabis users, although it's not as bad as it use to be.

In that vain, allow me to suggest a new category for Silk Road, something like, "Edible Medical," for food products made with THC.  Hopefully, this will give SR a little more TLC and positive karma for what is sure to be a hard row to hoe.

Peace be with you.
Greenfloyd, aka Floyd Ferris Landrath, Portland, Oregon.






Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 06:33:18 AM
Quote
I'm not entirely sure how to classify the following drugs, but they are listed as well under "prescription":
Viagra
Xanax
Alprazolam
Colnazepam
and Amphetamine salts

You see, that's why doctors and pharmacists, not Internet hot-shots (or drug cartels), should sell the hard drugs.  It appears you are in no way qualified to be distributing dangerous narcotics such as Xanax.  In addition, you could well be selling them to kids.  In my book selling to adults is ok.  However, blindly selling hard drugs to minors is akin to child-rape and abuse, it can not be tolerated in a civil society.  In this regard your business model is the same as the cartels and street-dealers and represents a step-backward for E-commerece as an ethical and responsible player.

greenfloyd, aka Floyd Ferris Landrath, Portland, Oregon


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ricochet on June 06, 2011, 07:02:36 AM
Floyd, keep in mind that SR is like Mt. Gox is that it's more of a middleman between buyers and sellers, though the guy running the site is a seller himself.  It's very likely that he doesn't sell any of those drugs you quoted, but one of the other sellers wanted to offer it and so he needed to add the relevant pages to the site.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 07:37:47 AM
Floyd, keep in mind that SR is like Mt. Gox is that it's more of a middleman between buyers and sellers, though the guy running the site is a seller himself.  It's very likely that he doesn't sell any of those drugs you quoted, but one of the other sellers wanted to offer it and so he needed to add the relevant pages to the site.

I'll keep that in mind, and perhaps I should have layered my comments a bit better. 

Nonetheless, and in the final analysis all three parties, seller - buyer - middleman are involved and therefore share in some of the moral and legal implications of their actions.  I think this is particularly relevant in regards to this system which from what I've seen doesn't even make as much effort as the pron industry in preventing underage access to, what should be, adults-only products.  And even then, there are other concerns about true quantities, dosage and ingredients / adulterants of already potentially fatal narcotics.

As someone passionate about drug legalization and from the apparent level of higher-than-average intelligence I see on this board, it needs to be clearly stated exactly what the ramifications are of engaging in this business model, no matter what your particular role in it may be.





Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2011, 07:54:04 AM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/  I found silk road everybody. I agree the pollies should ban it now.




Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2011, 07:59:16 AM
https://www.blindbitcoin.com/ (https://www.blindbitcoin.com/) if youre tempted to send someone on silk road bitcoins.

I think the fake silk road site should redirect to lemonparty.com or meatspin.

Just to troll the media.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Atheros on June 06, 2011, 10:06:37 AM
...Just to troll the media.

Yes!  That would put an end to this story instantly. The media would feel foolish and the two senators would feel very foolish.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 06, 2011, 12:59:39 PM
Nonetheless, and in the final analysis all three parties, seller - buyer - middleman are involved and therefore share in some of the moral and legal implications of their actions.  I think this is particularly relevant in regards to this system which from what I've seen doesn't even make as much effort as the pron industry in preventing underage access to, what should be, adults-only products.  And even then, there are other concerns about true quantities, dosage and ingredients / adulterants of already potentially fatal narcotics.

As someone passionate about drug legalization and from the apparent level of higher-than-average intelligence I see on this board, it needs to be clearly stated exactly what the ramifications are of engaging in this business model, no matter what your particular role in it may be.
As you and others have pointed out, the Silk Road model does have risks and deficiencies. However, it does offer a great improvement over the traditional, albeit stereotypical, model of buying from shady dealers in crumby places. The Silk Road model even offers improvements with respect to denying access to children. Because the products come through the mail, parents have a better chance of intercepting them and confronting junior on the matter.

I would recommend though that the Silk Road folks add a link at the top of each product category page to the relevant page on Erowid or an equivalent source. Doing so can only help. We can't win this "war" without education.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: AllYourBase on June 06, 2011, 01:06:34 PM
Quote
I'm not entirely sure how to classify the following drugs, but they are listed as well under "prescription":
Viagra
Xanax
Alprazolam
Colnazepam
and Amphetamine salts

You see, that's why doctors and pharmacists, not Internet hot-shots (or drug cartels), should sell the hard drugs.  It appears you are in no way qualified to be distributing dangerous narcotics such as Xanax.  In addition, you could well be selling them to kids.  In my book selling to adults is ok.  However, blindly selling hard drugs to minors is akin to child-rape and abuse, it can not be tolerated in a civil society.  In this regard your business model is the same as the cartels and street-dealers and represents a step-backward for E-commerece as an ethical and responsible player.

greenfloyd, aka Floyd Ferris Landrath, Portland, Oregon

I find your statement to be pretty offensive to so called "children".  You are implying that they are completely helpless and have no ability to make decisions with consequences.  In my book, if they can figure out how to use the internet, tor encryption, bitcoin, order something through SR, all without it being detected by anyone who cares to stop them, they are certainly mature enough to comprehend the consequences.  Please consider that you are turning kids into bubble boy (if you've seen that movie).   


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Drifter on June 06, 2011, 02:10:52 PM
I find your statement to be pretty offensive to so called "children".  You are implying that they are completely helpless and have no ability to make decisions with consequences. 

No, they have less ability to realize consequences, and more to lose because of undeveloped bodies and minds. You seem to imply older teenagers but what about an 11 year old? If I was to lay out a line of coke and say "snort it", you think she would know the consequences? If she was parented right maybe but not every kid.


Quote
In my book, if they can figure out how to use the internet, tor encryption, bitcoin, order something through SR, all without it being detected by anyone who cares to stop them, they are certainly mature enough to comprehend the consequences.  Please consider that you are turning kids into bubble boy (if you've seen that movie).   

Today, Tor and Bitcoin might be pretty hard for youngsters to get a grasp on, but in the future? Let's dream for a minute, and say in the future phones can come with Tor installed, and bitcoin is a common payment method. If a child, 8,9,10,... gets recommended "Silk Road" by his older friends and he's able to buy some stuff that makes him feel awesome in the blink of an eye, is he able to see or weigh the consequences?

Children's freedom is definitely important to me, and I do think western countries are learning to control their kids too much, but drugs are not something to be introducing to a young developing human being. I can't tell you if 18 is the "adult" age but at least by then you have the ability to think for yourself a lot better than being young, and everything learned until teenage years is basically parents/teachers ideas handed down.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 02:19:54 PM
As with everything, it should be up for the parents/children to decide when they are mature enough to experiment with mind altering substances. I firmly believe that the parents should be able to provide a safe setting for their children to do so (if they feel it is appropriate) without risking going to jail.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Drifter on June 06, 2011, 02:21:29 PM
As with everything, it should be up for the parents/children to decide when they are mature enough to experiment with mind altering substances. I firmly believe that the parents should be able to provide a safe setting for their children to do so (if they feel it is appropriate) without risking going to jail.

How do you decide when they are mature enough?
Edit: To be more specific. How do I decide if a 7 year old is mature enough if they seem to want to do a certain drug?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Prze_koles on June 06, 2011, 02:23:16 PM
As with everything, it should be up for the parents/children to decide when they are mature enough to experiment with mind altering substances. I firmly believe that the parents should be able to provide a safe setting for their children to do so (if they feel it is appropriate) without risking going to jail.

How do you decide when they are mature enough?
Edit: To be more specific. How do I decide if a 7 year old is mature enough if they seem to want to do a certain drug?

If you don't know such things, you shouldn't have children.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Phenomenon on June 06, 2011, 02:26:40 PM

How do you decide when they are mature enough?
Edit: To be more specific. How do I decide if a 7 year old is mature enough if they seem to want to do a certain drug?

Well if you are uncomfortable in deciding if a child is mature enough then why should you be pushing an agenda for a specific age?  Perhaps you should let parents and children make their own decisions.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Drifter on June 06, 2011, 02:29:45 PM

If you don't know such things, you shouldn't have children.

Guess what? There's parents like that out there arleady  :o. Ever see those vids of parents giving their kids weed or chain smoking cigarettes? I've seen one or two where the parents gave them ecstasy. The kid seems to slightly enjoy himself even, besides his eyes shooting back and forth. Uncommon, but it happens, and in those situations the child doesn't have options to say no. I guess some would say the courts have to decide if the child is mature enough or not to make the decision for himself? Hm. Tricky.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Phenomenon on June 06, 2011, 02:39:10 PM

Guess what? There's parents like that out there arleady  :o. Ever see those vids of parents giving their kids weed or chain smoking cigarettes? I've seen one or two where the parents gave them ecstasy. The kid seems to slightly enjoy himself even, besides his eyes shooting back and forth. Uncommon, but it happens, and in those situations the child doesn't have options to say no. I guess some would say the courts have to decide if the child is mature enough or not to make the decision for himself? Hm. Tricky.

I don't believe anyone claimed that parents and children never make the wrong decision.  However if your proposal is that the Government is more likely to make the correct decision then I will have to disagree wholeheartedly.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 06, 2011, 02:42:34 PM
I think we're getting a little OT up in here.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Drifter on June 06, 2011, 02:46:00 PM
I don't believe anyone claimed that parents and children never make the wrong decision.  However if your proposal is that the Government is more likely to make the correct decision then I will have to disagree wholeheartedly.

Point taken.

And sorry for the OT discussion. Carry on  ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 03:07:39 PM
I find your statement to be pretty offensive to so called "children".  You are implying that they are completely helpless and have no ability to make decisions with consequences.  In my book, if they can figure out how to use the internet, tor encryption, bitcoin, order something through SR, all without it being detected by anyone who cares to stop them, they are certainly mature enough to comprehend the consequences.  Please consider that you are turning kids into bubble boy (if you've seen that movie).   

Kids are often offended by restrictions imposed on them by parents and other adults.  Kids also often think they are indestructible and know everything.  Maturity, in many ways, is the awareness of your own mortality, and ignorance.  Plenty of "smart" people, young and old, remain very immature.  Especially when it comes to drugs.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 04:16:09 PM

Guess what? There's parents like that out there arleady  :o. Ever see those vids of parents giving their kids weed or chain smoking cigarettes? I've seen one or two where the parents gave them ecstasy. The kid seems to slightly enjoy himself even, besides his eyes shooting back and forth. Uncommon, but it happens, and in those situations the child doesn't have options to say no. I guess some would say the courts have to decide if the child is mature enough or not to make the decision for himself? Hm. Tricky.

I don't believe anyone claimed that parents and children never make the wrong decision.  However if your proposal is that the Government is more likely to make the correct decision then I will have to disagree wholeheartedly.

I don't want to encourage off-topic discussion here, although I think it's important that both Bitcoin and Silk Road deal with the legal and moral implications of their current business model.  However, if it's an act of defiance against our screwed-up drug laws and NOT actually engaged in any transactions, I wholeheartedly support it.  Yet, from what I've learned so far, that does not appear to be the case.

If you, Phenomenon, eliminate government's role in drug policy aren't you then simply advocating the status quo and encouraging the prison-industrial complex along with a host of other serious social, economic and humanitarian problems?  Somebody is going to control the drugs.  Who or what do you recommend?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 04:19:07 PM
If you, Phenomenon, eliminate government's role in drug policy aren't you then simply advocating the status quo and encouraging the prison-industrial complex along with a host of other serious social, economic and humanitarian problems?  Somebody is going to control the drugs.  Who or what do you recommend?

What? If the government abandoned its drug control policy, who would be arresting people and putting them in jail for drug manufacture/distribution/use‽‽‽


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: hans030390 on June 06, 2011, 04:29:03 PM
Now that government officials have publically mentioned their knowledge of Silk Road, what can they actually do about it, the people running it, and the people that use it? This isn't an area I have much knowledge in, so I'm interested to hear thoughts on this given that I think Silk Road is an excellent idea.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Phenomenon on June 06, 2011, 04:38:16 PM
I don't want to encourage off-topic discussion here, although I think it's important that both Bitcoin and Silk Road deal with the legal and moral implications of their current business model.  However, if it's an act of defiance against our screwed-up drug laws and NOT actually engaged in any transactions, I wholeheartedly support it.  Yet, from what I've learned so far, that does not appear to be the case.

If you, Phenomenon, eliminate government's role in drug policy aren't you then simply advocating the status quo and encouraging the prison-industrial complex along with a host of other serious social, economic and humanitarian problems?  Somebody is going to control the drugs.  Who or what do you recommend?

By eliminating the government's role in drug policy I would be changing the current situation.  By definition this would be the opposite of advocating the status quo, so i'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say.

As far as "encouraging the prison-industrial complex along with a host of other serious social, economic, and humanitarian problems", again, I am unsure of what you are trying to say.  By removing government from the equation I am definitely not encouraging prisons of any sort.  To the contrary, I am discouraging people from being sent to prison as observed by BitterTea.  I am proposing that each person must bear the responsibility of deciding for themselves if they wish to consume drugs, alcohol, or other mind altering or even hazardous materials.  Obviously parents would be responsible for their children.  You are going to have to be more specific about all these "serious social, economic, and humanitarian problems" you foresee, because I don't see any except that people must take responsibility for their own persons and their own actions.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 04:39:19 PM
If you, Phenomenon, eliminate government's role in drug policy aren't you then simply advocating the status quo and encouraging the prison-industrial complex along with a host of other serious social, economic and humanitarian problems?  Somebody is going to control the drugs.  Who or what do you recommend?

What? If the government abandoned its drug control policy, who would be arresting people and putting them in jail for drug manufacture/distribution/use‽‽‽

That's a fair point.  Although we are getting off-topic, i.e. Silk Road and Bitcoin.  Seems to me government has already abandoned drug control, the actual number of people caught and drugs interdicted are but a small fraction of the total consumer market.  A market SR and Bitcoin seem to embrace, despite the low-life thugs and psychopathic killers who populate it.  You are known by the company you keep, my mother use to tell me.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 06, 2011, 05:03:57 PM
‽‽‽
The interrobang: I love it. However, you should only ever put one at the end of a sentence lest, as I understand it, you defeat part of its purpose, to reduce punctuation. That is, a single interrobang serves the purpose of a question mark followed by an exclamation point, halving the punctuation you'd otherwise require to convey such a tone.

But, I digress...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 05:28:23 PM
Seems to me government has already abandoned drug control

In what sense?

From Federal drug control spending by agency (http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/policy/10budget/tbl_2.pdf):

Quote
(Budget Authority in Millions) [...] FY 2010 Request [...] $15,069.1

15 billion FEDERAL dollars spent on drug control in the United States.

From FBI arrest statistics (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/arrests/index.html):
Quote
The highest arrest counts among the Part I and Part II offenses were for drug abuse violations (estimated at 1,663,582 arrests), driving under the influence (estimated at 1,440,409), and larceny-theft (estimated at 1,334,933).

The arrest rate was 4,478.0 arrests per 100,000 inhabitants of the total estimated United States population. The arrest rate for violent crime (including murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) was 191.2 per 100,000 inhabitants, and the arrest rate for property crime (including burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson) was 571.1 per 100,000 inhabitants.

That second point isn't specifically drug related, but it's interesting to see that violent and property crimes account for a very small portion of the number of arrests (17%). Wonder what the rest were from...

Quote
the actual number of people caught and drugs interdicted are but a small fraction of the total consumer market.

That just means that their enforcement is not effective as per their stated goal. They can still be effective at ruining the lives of a significant percentage of the population simply for choosing to attain an altered state of consciousness or helping others do so.

Quote
A market SR and Bitcoin seem to embrace, despite the low-life thugs and psychopathic killers who populate it.

Utter bullshit. Using Silk Road dramatically lowers the chance of having a drug trade turn violent. Furthermore, its use of reputation, escrow, and arbitration dramatically lowers the chance of fraudulent behavior by either party.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 05:33:17 PM
I don't want to encourage off-topic discussion here, although I think it's important that both Bitcoin and Silk Road deal with the legal and moral implications of their current business model.  However, if it's an act of defiance against our screwed-up drug laws and NOT actually engaged in any transactions, I wholeheartedly support it.  Yet, from what I've learned so far, that does not appear to be the case.

If you, Phenomenon, eliminate government's role in drug policy aren't you then simply advocating the status quo and encouraging the prison-industrial complex along with a host of other serious social, economic and humanitarian problems?  Somebody is going to control the drugs.  Who or what do you recommend?

By eliminating the government's role in drug policy I would be changing the current situation.  By definition this would be the opposite of advocating the status quo, so i'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say.

As far as "encouraging the prison-industrial complex along with a host of other serious social, economic, and humanitarian problems", again, I am unsure of what you are trying to say.  By removing government from the equation I am definitely not encouraging prisons of any sort.  To the contrary, I am discouraging people from being sent to prison as observed by BitterTea.  I am proposing that each person must bear the responsibility of deciding for themselves if they wish to consume drugs, alcohol, or other mind altering or even hazardous materials.  Obviously parents would be responsible for their children.  You are going to have to be more specific about all these "serious social, economic, and humanitarian problems" you foresee, because I don't see any except that people must take responsibility for their own persons and their own actions.

Yes!  That's exactly why I am seeking clarification from Silk Road, Bitcoin and anyone involved in the illegal drug market today.  No one appears to be stepping forward, at least not yet, to give us an idea of where SR, etc. stand on the moral and ethical issues I and others have raised.  
It's a great item for debate, that much is for sure judging by recent events and this lively thread.  

Note about eliminating govt, it's often a choice of evils.  Shall we surrender civil society to blood-thirsty thugs, as is happening right now in parts of Mexico and Latin America?  Is that our future?  Somebody is going to control (and profit) from drugs no matter what.  Perhaps SR is something of a stepping-stone out of this quagmire.  I'd be interested on what, if any, role they envision for govt. if there were to be significant changes to current laws.  Or, does Silk Road consider itself above the law?



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 05:40:31 PM
Note about eliminating govt, it's often a choice of evils.  Shall we surrender civil society to blood-thirsty thugs, as is happening right now in parts of Mexico and Latin America?  Is that our future?

You seem to lack a basic understanding of the cause of the cartels' rise to power. Let me give you a hint: they love the war on drugs. Governments around the world (urged/coerced by the U.S.) have made drugs illegal, essentially handing a monopoly of drug production and distribution to violent individuals.

Quote
Somebody is going to control (and profit) from drugs no matter what.

If the production, distribution, and use of all drugs is legal, legitimate businesses will form to fill these roles. They will be protected by police and/or private security. Look at alcohol prohibition and the end of the same in order to see how a market run by thugs is transitioned to a peaceful one once it is no longer forced underground.

Quote
Perhaps SR is something of a stepping-stone out of this quagmire.  I'd be interested on what, if any, role they envision for govt. if there were to be significant changes to current laws.  Or, does Silk Road consider itself above the law?

It is a stepping stone. The government will either end the prohibition of drugs or go bankrupt trying to fight against sites like Silk Road.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 06, 2011, 05:43:24 PM


Yes!  That's exactly why I am seeking clarification from Silk Road, Bitcoin and anyone involved in the illegal drug market today.  No one appears to be stepping forward, at least not yet, to give us an idea of where SR, etc. stand on the moral and ethical issues I and others have raised.  

We are not Silk Road.  Try talking to them.  Bitcoin is not related to Silk Road, beyond being an enabling technology.  None of us take any responsibility for what they are doing, nor are we responsible for trying to defend their position on anything.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 06:02:32 PM
Seems to me government has already abandoned drug control

In what sense?

From Federal drug control spending by agency (http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/policy/10budget/tbl_2.pdf):

Quote
(Budget Authority in Millions) [...] FY 2010 Request [...] $15,069.1

15 billion FEDERAL dollars spent on drug control in the United States.

From FBI arrest statistics (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/arrests/index.html):
Quote
The highest arrest counts among the Part I and Part II offenses were for drug abuse violations (estimated at 1,663,582 arrests), driving under the influence (estimated at 1,440,409), and larceny-theft (estimated at 1,334,933).

The arrest rate was 4,478.0 arrests per 100,000 inhabitants of the total estimated United States population. The arrest rate for violent crime (including murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) was 191.2 per 100,000 inhabitants, and the arrest rate for property crime (including burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson) was 571.1 per 100,000 inhabitants.

That second point isn't specifically drug related, but it's interesting to see that violent and property crimes account for a very small portion of the number of arrests (17%). Wonder what the rest were from...

Quote
the actual number of people caught and drugs interdicted are but a small fraction of the total consumer market.

That just means that their enforcement is not effective as per their stated goal. They can still be effective at ruining the lives of a significant percentage of the population simply for choosing to attain an altered state of consciousness or helping others do so.

Quote
A market SR and Bitcoin seem to embrace, despite the low-life thugs and psychopathic killers who populate it.

Utter bullshit. Using Silk Road dramatically lowers the chance of having a drug trade turn violent. Furthermore, its use of reputation, escrow, and arbitration dramatically lowers the chance of fraudulent behavior by either party.

I should have better qualified my comment.  Yes the spending is outrageous, it's now over a trillion since Nixon first declared this stupid "war" back in 1972.  Most of it a complete waste.  Bear in mind the vast majority of drug users, manufactures and distributors go undetected and thus render the law unenforceable by any legitimate measure.  That's not to suggest enforcement and imprisonment has not effected many, many people, with a disproportionate number being poor and minorities.  This part is, of course, by design.

While I don't suggest SR or Bitcoin would actively participate in acts of overt violence.  I still think we need to ask if selling tar heroin to a young teen isn't a from of violence in and of itself?
  


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 06:10:52 PM
While I don't suggest SR or Bitcoin would actively participate in acts of overt violence.  I still think we need to ask if selling tar heroin to a young teen isn't a from of violence in and of itself?

It's none of your business or mine, only that of the child and guardian.

In exactly the same way, I consider religious indoctrination to be a form of child abuse, but its none of my business if others indoctrinate their children into their choice of religion.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Phenomenon on June 06, 2011, 06:36:52 PM

Note about eliminating govt, it's often a choice of evils.  Shall we surrender civil society to blood-thirsty thugs, as is happening right now in parts of Mexico and Latin America?  Is that our future?  Somebody is going to control (and profit) from drugs no matter what.  Perhaps SR is something of a stepping-stone out of this quagmire.  I'd be interested on what, if any, role they envision for govt. if there were to be significant changes to current laws.  Or, does Silk Road consider itself above the law?


First of all I do not speak for Silk Road or for Bitcoin, as I am not affiliated directly with either. 

Second of all, I reject as false your assertion that eliminating government is "often a choice of evils" and would involve "surrender[ing] civil society to blood-thirsty thugs".  What is happening in Mexico and Latin America is a direct result of the government attempting to regulate something and being completely ineffective at it, which is causing mayhem.  Furthermore, if you think up all of the worst oppressions and "blood-thirsty thugs" that have plagued humanity over the course of history, you will find that the majority of them were governments.  In fact the most prosperous and happy societies in history were those with the most limited forms of government.

This has proceeded sufficiently off-topic now however that I will no longer reply to this train of thought in this thread, however if you wish to discuss how you think that government is necessary to save us all from the "blood-thirsty thugs", please feel free to create another thread and PM me the link.  I'd love to stop by.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: ene on June 06, 2011, 06:38:09 PM
It's none of your business or mine, only that of the child and guardian.

In exactly the same way, I consider religious indoctrination to be a form of child abuse, but its none of my business if others indoctrinate their children into their choice of religion.

So you support people's right to abuse their children? I think you're exaggerating when you say you consider religious indoctrination to be a form of child abuse.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: drugsmang on June 06, 2011, 06:38:39 PM
Christ, there's always some whiteknight idiot claiming mail order sites sell teens/children evuuul drugs

#1 they can probably already buy it, at school. i could in grade 9 dealers were everywhere.
#2 mail will probably get opened by parents and drugs seized. they would be too paranoid to order
#3 mail order is too expensive. what kid can afford to blow $100+ on drugs when they could just pay somebody's older bro/sis to go get them bitch bombs of winecoolers aka Panty Remover
#4 parents already have stashes of Oxy, Valium, Drugs and Booze kids are getting into easily (Didn't you?)
#5 dirtbag skids at my jr. high huffed gas in the parkinglot and shop class all the time. at least if they can smuggle real drugs past their parents, it isn't a rag soaked with freaking GAS

in other news I lol'd when that senator in the US said today he would pull the Silk Road domain. series of tubes, hurrderp let's seize that .onion domain derrrrrrr what




Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 06:39:48 PM


Yes!  That's exactly why I am seeking clarification from Silk Road, Bitcoin and anyone involved in the illegal drug market today.  No one appears to be stepping forward, at least not yet, to give us an idea of where SR, etc. stand on the moral and ethical issues I and others have raised.  

We are not Silk Road.  Try talking to them.  Bitcoin is not related to Silk Road, beyond being an enabling technology.  None of us take any responsibility for what they are doing, nor are we responsible for trying to defend their position on anything.

Dear creighto,
Thank you for that clarification.  Although I do not understand what you mean by "enabling technology?"

So what is your role with Bitcoin?  Do you speak for the organization?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: drugsmang on June 06, 2011, 06:41:42 PM
Quote
So what is your role with Bitcoin?  Do you speak for the organization?

troll much?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 06, 2011, 06:41:49 PM


Yes!  That's exactly why I am seeking clarification from Silk Road, Bitcoin and anyone involved in the illegal drug market today.  No one appears to be stepping forward, at least not yet, to give us an idea of where SR, etc. stand on the moral and ethical issues I and others have raised.  

We are not Silk Road.  Try talking to them.  Bitcoin is not related to Silk Road, beyond being an enabling technology.  None of us take any responsibility for what they are doing, nor are we responsible for trying to defend their position on anything.

Dear creighto,
Thank you for that clarification.  Although I do not understand what you mean by "enabling technology?"

So what is your role with Bitcoin?  Do you speak for the organization?

No, I speak only for myself.  I represent the owners of this forum in a limited fashion, but that is as far as it goes.  There is no bitcoin "organization".  If there were, this project would fail.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on June 06, 2011, 07:17:50 PM
Try to directly relate BTC with SR is the same as linking the Federal Reserve with the drug cartels, taken they use mostly USD...

Still, I don't see the good of SR so far, it came way too soon and may end up linking BTC as "drugs currency"... but let's just hope that will not happen.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 06, 2011, 07:21:56 PM
While I don't suggest SR or Bitcoin would actively participate in acts of overt violence.  I still think we need to ask if selling tar heroin to a young teen isn't a from of violence in and of itself?
Assuming that it is, what feasible recommendations do you have for Silk Road on the matter?

</feeble attempt to get back on topic>


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
While I don't suggest SR or Bitcoin would actively participate in acts of overt violence.  I still think we need to ask if selling tar heroin to a young teen isn't a from of violence in and of itself?

It's none of your business or mine, only that of the child and guardian.

In exactly the same way, I consider religious indoctrination to be a form of child abuse, but its none of my business if others indoctrinate their children into their choice of religion.

Ah, though, BitterTea, this system does not require a "guardian," or more importantly, parental authority.  I respectfully disagree that the issue of drug trafficking to (or increasingly by) minors is of no concern to the larger community.  In fact, it's a major concern in many communities.  This building SR controversy is sure to only heighten it.  Rather that be by design or not, remains to be seen.  Perhaps SR will become a poster-boy for why we must regulate drugs and take them out of the hands of cartels, dealers and clandestine Internet markets.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: drugsmang on June 06, 2011, 07:48:56 PM
The SR controversy is merely senators trying to capitalize from tabloid journalism. it will die out in a week or so when @LulzSec is all over the news for h4xoring another FBI affiliate.

Online drug dealing has been going on since 1993 as far as i can remember. Patrick Kroupa used to sell acid and mesc on MindVox


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 07:56:01 PM
I am a single, small and un-influential voice in this community, and I want you gone, Silkroad.  This has nothing to do with my personal views on unrestricted trade among consenting adults, and everything to do with the fact that the united states government in its totality has every motive to discredit, damage and disable Bitcoin by any means necessary, and that if Senator Charles Schumer's current actions have any weight to them, the machinery for this has already been set into motion, using you.

You, Silkroad, are a tremendous liability to Bitcoin, and while the users here who are interested in Bitcoin purely for black transactions will disagree vocally with my opinion, your assocation with us is extremely damaging.  You can and will be used against us, and I for one want you gone.  I do not wish to purchase illegal substances with Bitcoins.  I want Bitcoins to be the image of moral progress to the people in my country, and as public opinions stand, this cannot come to be for as long as puppets like Schumer can gleefully call Bitcoins "the black market currency". I want you to drop Bitcoins as an accepted currency and terminate all association with Bitcoin.

You are, collectively, a huge threat to the Bitcoin movement, for purely political reasons, and I have no doubt in my mind that the cause Bitcoins represents is socially and economically many orders of magnitude more important for mankind's well being than you, Silkroad. I only wish more Bitcoin users here would recognize the danger of your association with us.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 06, 2011, 08:00:43 PM
Personally, I want Charles Schumer to say the name "Bitcoin" and "currency" together in front of the media as often as possible.  I don't know if Bitcoin is ready for the US government or not, but I'm ready to find out.  In the meantime, any of the talking heads blathering on about Bitcoin adds credibility. 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 08:01:28 PM
I am a single, small and un-influential voice in this community, and I want you gone, Silkroad.  This has nothing to do with my personal views on unrestricted trade among consenting adults, and everything to do with the fact that the united states government in its totality has every motive to discredit, damage and disable Bitcoin by any means necessary, and that if Senator Charles Schumer's current actions have any weight to them, the machinery for this has already been set into motion, using you.

You, Silkroad, are a tremendous liability to Bitcoin, and while the users here who are interested in Bitcoin purely for black transactions will disagree vocally with my opinion, your assocation with us is extremely damaging.  You can and will be used against us, and I for one want you gone.  I do not wish to purchase illegal substances with Bitcoins.  I want Bitcoins to be the image of moral progress to the people in my country, and as public opinions stand, this cannot come to be for as long as puppets like Schumer can gleefully call Bitcoins "the black market currency". I want you to drop Bitcoins as an accepted currency and terminate all association with Bitcoin.

You are, collectively, a huge threat to the Bitcoin movement, for purely political reasons, and I have no doubt in my mind that the cause Bitcoins represents is socially and economically many orders of magnitude more important for mankind's well being than you, Silkroad. I only wish more Bitcoin users here would recognize the danger of your association with us.

You seem confused. Charles Schumer (and those like him) are the problem, not the Silk Road.

Why don't you "want you gone, Charles Schumer"?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:05:35 PM
Because Charles Schumer and those like him aren't going anywhere without an armed revolution.  That's why.  Silkroad, and the entire image of Bitcoins as "the black market currency", has the power to smash the public opinion we so desperately need to build in order to ensure active bitcoin trading by the general public.  For Bitcoin to bloom, we cannot give federal and local enforcement authorities excuses to kick down our doors and seize our hard drives. 

Silkroad is a tremendously good excuse.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 08:07:09 PM
I have no doubt in my mind that the cause Bitcoins represents is socially and economically many orders of magnitude more important for mankind's well being than you, Silkroad.

The cause Bitcoin represents is literally the freedom for sites such as Silk Road to exist. If Silk Road goes away, the ideology of Bitcoin has failed.

I don't know what you think Bitcoin is supposed to be doing if "Freedom to perform financial transactions regardless of the circumstances surrounding those transactions" isn't it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:09:22 PM
Many individuals who are interested in Bitcoin as a means of challenging the financial power structure that holds the american economy in a ruthless stranglehold would disagree with that statement, anisoptera.  Advancement to a more secure and less easily corrupted form of currency is far more important than weed.com.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 08:13:34 PM
Many individuals who are interested in Bitcoin as a means of challenging the financial power structure that holds the american economy in a ruthless stranglehold would disagree with that statement, anisoptera.  Advancement to a more secure and less easily corrupted form of currency is far more important than weed.com.

If Bitcoins cannot be used for, as you put it, "weed.com", then it is not, in fact, a "less easily corrupted form of currency". It is the same bullshit with a different name.

"Corruption" includes outside entities being allowed to arbitrarily decide that certain types of transactions are not authorized. If we allow this to happen to Bitcoin, we have lost.

The only people who should be able to decide if a transaction is acceptable are those involved in that transaction. It isn't the financial network's job to enforce laws. The fact that the US is able to use banking policies to enforce their laws on the world economy is wrong, and Bitcoin is the solution, but only if we protect that power.

You have to protect all the speech, even the speech you don't agree with. Today it's Silk Road. Do you think that that's where it stops?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 08:14:16 PM
While I don't suggest SR or Bitcoin would actively participate in acts of overt violence.  I still think we need to ask if selling tar heroin to a young teen isn't a from of violence in and of itself?
Assuming that it is, what feasible recommendations do you have for Silk Road on the matter?

</feeble attempt to get back on topic>

Because I'm not sure what's really going on here I don't think I'm in any position to judge what is or isn't "feasible."  If it's a hoax, it's beautiful.  On the other hand if it is not a hoax, then I believe it becomes part of the problem.  Certainly nothing like cartels and gangs, yet still operating as if it, Silk Road, were above the law.  My aim has always been to change the law and make things better for everybody, except of course those who get fat off the way the law is today.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:21:30 PM
Then we are doomed to lose.  They will ban the possession and usage of bitcoins, they will subpoena ISPs (successfully), they will devise methods of tracking who is likely to use them, and the same machinery that makes search and seizure of narcotics from individuals so profitable will, with a slight change of its gears, shift to grind miners and traders in their teeth instead of growers.

They will find a way, if we do not have the general public backing us.  This isn't a truly anonymous currency.  We all know that.

When I speak of corruption, I am speaking of how the united states dollar has come to possess a certain sinister quality to it.  It is managed on the macro level by organizations who have every advantage to keep the people using it in debt.  We are a country composed of debt - in essence an economical feudal tyranny, with lords, knights, and peasants who are forced by necessity to serve.  Their whips and prods are debt and interest.  Their collars are credit.  Bitcoin could challenge this, but only with those serfs behind it.  They will not rally to your ideology because they believe drugs to be bad.

I understand your ideology.  Do you now understand mine?  We have different motivations in our support of Bitcoins.  Let's leave it at that, for now.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 08:22:02 PM
operating as if it, Silk Road, were above the law.

What if what Silk Road does isn't illegal in its country? Just because something is illegal in the US doesn't make it illegal everywhere. Nothing ties Silk Road to any one country, and certainly not the US.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:24:38 PM
Quote
What if what Silk Road does isn't illegal in its country? Just because something is illegal in the US doesn't make it illegal everywhere. Nothing ties Silk Road to any one country, and certainly not the US.
This is true, and valid, and as unfortunate for the health of Bitcoin in the US as it is fortunate for Silkroad's well being everywhere.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: drugsmang on June 06, 2011, 08:26:32 PM
Silk Road is not the end of Bitcoin. Bitcoin itself is evil enough in the eyes of the excited states, remember what happened to E-Gold? EBullion? All the arrested LR and Pecunix traders in the US? yeah


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 08:28:27 PM
Then we are doomed to lose.  They will ban the possession and usage of bitcoins, they will subpoena ISPs (successfully), they will devise methods of tracking who is likely to use them, and the same machinery that makes search and seizure of narcotics from individuals so profitable will, with a slight change of its gears, shift to grind miners and traders in their teeth instead of growers.
And then people will use Tor for bitcoin by default. Or bitcoin will change its protocol to evade this. Or Bitcoin will be made illegal, but someone will just start a new blockchain.

Quote
They will find a way, if we do not have the general public backing us.  This isn't a truly anonymous currency.  We all know that.
We don't need the general public backing us. We need enough people backing us to continue to use the currency. The number of people who understand that whenever the government speaks about drugs in any way that they are lying is pretty large. I would be willing to bet that for every person who believes the lies, there will be at least one other who has never heard of bitcoin and looks into it to fact-check the government lines.

Quote
When I speak of corruption, I am speaking of how the united states dollar has come to possess a certain sinister quality to it.  It is managed on the macro level by organizations who have every advantage to keep the people using it in debt.  We are a country composed of debt - in essence an economical feudal tyranny, with lords, knights, and peasants who are forced by necessity to serve.  Their whips and prods are debt and interest.  Their collars are credit.  Bitcoin could challenge this, but only with those serfs behind it.  They will not rally to your ideology because they believe drugs to be bad.

I understand your ideology.  Do you now understand mine?  We have different motivations in our support of Bitcoins.  Let's leave it at that, for now.

I think you grossly overestimate the number of people whose thoughts on drugs end at "Drugs r bad!". And it doesn't take a lot of work to point out that it's a freedom thing, not a drug thing.

Also, despite BitTorrent being used primarily for illegal purposes, there doesn't appear to be much traction for banning it.

Quote
What if what Silk Road does isn't illegal in its country? Just because something is illegal in the US doesn't make it illegal everywhere. Nothing ties Silk Road to any one country, and certainly not the US.
This is true, and valid, and as unfortunate for the health of Bitcoin in the US as it is fortunate for Silkroad's well being everywhere.

The US is not the world, and if the US bans Bitcoin but the rest of the world doesn't, it's not going to be a problem. For Bitcoin, that is. The US might find itself in a bad position.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:31:05 PM
Quote
Silk Road is not the end of Bitcoin. Bitcoin itself is evil enough in the eyes of the excited states, remember what happened to E-Gold? EBullion? All the arrested LR and Pecunix traders in the US? yeah
They had an easy kill with e-gold.  Completely centralized.  The resources they'll need to take down bitcoin are something else altogether.  But what you say has truth to it - without Silkroad, they would find other excuses to demonize Bitcoin.  It might be an impossible task to keep our image clean in the public eye, but we have to try, don't we?

-------

And anisoptera?  Rather than continue to argue with you, I have a simple question for you.

If you had to choose one service to survive, dooming the other one to failure, would it be Bitcoin, or Silkroad?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: hans030390 on June 06, 2011, 08:33:34 PM
I am a single, small and un-influential voice in this community, and I want you gone, Silkroad.  This has nothing to do with my personal views on unrestricted trade among consenting adults, and everything to do with the fact that the united states government in its totality has every motive to discredit, damage and disable Bitcoin by any means necessary, and that if Senator Charles Schumer's current actions have any weight to them, the machinery for this has already been set into motion, using you.

You, Silkroad, are a tremendous liability to Bitcoin, and while the users here who are interested in Bitcoin purely for black transactions will disagree vocally with my opinion, your assocation with us is extremely damaging.  You can and will be used against us, and I for one want you gone.  I do not wish to purchase illegal substances with Bitcoins.  I want Bitcoins to be the image of moral progress to the people in my country, and as public opinions stand, this cannot come to be for as long as puppets like Schumer can gleefully call Bitcoins "the black market currency". I want you to drop Bitcoins as an accepted currency and terminate all association with Bitcoin.

You are, collectively, a huge threat to the Bitcoin movement, for purely political reasons, and I have no doubt in my mind that the cause Bitcoins represents is socially and economically many orders of magnitude more important for mankind's well being than you, Silkroad. I only wish more Bitcoin users here would recognize the danger of your association with us.

If the government gets involved in this, Silk Road shouldn't make Bitcoins look any worse than when drugs are bought with "real" currency. The only thing the government should care about is drug trade, regardless of what currencies are being used. The currencies are, themselves, completely legal.

Now, IF the government associates Silk Road with Bitcoins and attemps to do something about Bitcoins, then that could be a problem. But then the problem is not Silk Road, but rather the government officials. If they are moronic enough to try and take Bitcoins down because of Silk Road, then that shows our government is full of idiots (though I consider this to be readily apparent) that can't make logical connections and conclusions. Don't blame Silk Road for idiots that run this country. If we keep letting the idiots have their way (which, in your case, would be by blaming Silk Road and trying to get rid of it), then we will continue to be stuck in this idiotic mess.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: drugsmang on June 06, 2011, 08:35:08 PM
Quote
they would find other excuses to demonize Bitcoin.  

@LulzSec just took a $7k BTC donation and announced it was using it to buy servers to pwn the FBI lol

there's other ways to get paid anonymously if you know what your doing. lot's of carders run cleaning services for LR and WM/WU

i can see them going after MtGox. i hope he has an offshore domain name and hosting


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:36:42 PM
Now, IF the government associates Silk Road with Bitcoins and attemps to do something about Bitcoins, then that could be a problem. But then the problem is not Silk Road, but rather the government officials. If they are moronic enough to try and take Bitcoins down because of Silk Road, then that shows our government is full of idiots (though I consider this to be readily apparent) that can't make logical connections and conclusions. Don't blame Silk Road for idiots that run this country. If we keep letting the idiots have their way (which, in your case, would be by blaming Silk Road and trying to get rid of it), then we will continue to be stuck in this idiotic mess.
Hans - have you read the material on senator Charles Schumer?  I apologize if you already are in the know, but if you are not, please google Charles Schumer Bitcoin.  It becomes extremely clear that this PR war is already underway in precisely the method you fear.

EDIT: spelling


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:37:40 PM
@LulzSec just took a $7k BTC donation and announced it was using it to buy servers to pwn the FBI lol
Oh, jesus.  This is bad.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 08:40:01 PM
If you had to choose one service to survive, dooming the other one to failure, would it be Bitcoin, or Silkroad?

This is a false choice. Silk Road(s) cannot exist without Bitcoin. Bitcoin cannot exist while also prohibiting Silk Road(s).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 08:40:55 PM
@LulzSec just took a $7k BTC donation and announced it was using it to buy servers to pwn the FBI lol
Oh, jesus.  This is bad.
Why? Presumably they're turning that BTC into USD in order to buy the servers. U.S. DOLLARS USED TO FUND DOMESTIC CYBER TERROR GROUP!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: drugsmang on June 06, 2011, 08:41:10 PM
@LulzSec just took a $7k BTC donation and announced it was using it to buy servers to pwn the FBI lol
Oh, jesus.  This is bad.



Not as bad as #1 enemy of USA Wikileaks accepting Bitcoin donations. The moment Wikileaks started accepting it it was a doomed currency, you know eventually clownshoes American's would try to go after it. Just be sure you aren't a US based exchanger or you will get picked up by the Secret Service like that guy peddling the Liberty Dollar in Florida, and every single exchanger in the 1990s crackdown

Still nothing they can do except harass their own citizens trading it, rest of us and our coins are fine tho


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: azmimalik on June 06, 2011, 08:44:13 PM
Hey was just wondering If u can deliver some morrocon black with some transformers and orange budhas? DO u deliver in UK?? I know stuff is available here but y go out and waste time in searching if u can get it online?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:44:33 PM
This is a false choice. Silk Road(s) cannot exist without Bitcoin. Bitcoin cannot exist while also prohibiting Silk Road(s).
Well, you weren't who I asked, but your answer tells me exactly where your interest in bitcoins originates.

As for the badness you asked about, it's bad publicity.  We need the public on the side of bitcoin for real trade to occur, with which to solidify the value of bitcoins.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:45:01 PM
Hey was just wondering If u can deliver some morrocon black with some transformers and orange budhas? DO u deliver in UK?? I know stuff is available here but y go out and waste time in searching if u can get it online?
God damnit.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 06, 2011, 08:45:27 PM
If you had to choose one service to survive, dooming the other one to failure, would it be Bitcoin, or Silkroad?

This is a false choice. Silk Road(s) cannot exist without Bitcoin. Bitcoin cannot exist while also prohibiting Silk Road(s).

I don't understand why Silk Road is so important to Bitcoin?  Please elaborate.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 08:48:23 PM
I don't understand why Silk Road is so important to Bitcoin?  Please elaborate.
That's an easy one.  The true value of bitcoins to a person who wants to make illegal purchases is the ability of bitcoins to be used for any transaction, however shady, with total safety.  There are a lot of people in this thread who want the goods on Silkroad and consider Bitcoins a means to that end - that is, they consider the Bitcoins only virtue to be unrestricted transactions for any good or service, however the legality.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: hans030390 on June 06, 2011, 08:55:31 PM
Now, IF the government associates Silk Road with Bitcoins and attemps to do something about Bitcoins, then that could be a problem. But then the problem is not Silk Road, but rather the government officials. If they are moronic enough to try and take Bitcoins down because of Silk Road, then that shows our government is full of idiots (though I consider this to be readily apparent) that can't make logical connections and conclusions. Don't blame Silk Road for idiots that run this country. If we keep letting the idiots have their way (which, in your case, would be by blaming Silk Road and trying to get rid of it), then we will continue to be stuck in this idiotic mess.
Hans - have you read the material on senator Charles Schumer?  I apologize if you already are in the know, but if you are not, please google Charles Schumer Bitcoin.  It becomes extremely clear that this PR war is already underway in precisely the method you fear.

EDIT: spelling

Yeah, I've been doing my best to keep up with the whole issue. Schumer sounds like a moron that has no idea what he's talking about or dealing with. The difference is that while he might be a moron and would like to take Bitcoin down, it takes more than one senator to do something like that. So, my whole IF situation is really unknown until/if more government officials get involved in this.

I don't have much hope in the rest of the government being a whole lot smarter on the issue, but I can't predict the future!

Hey was just wondering If u can deliver some morrocon black with some transformers and orange budhas? DO u deliver in UK?? I know stuff is available here but y go out and waste time in searching if u can get it online?

If you send me 20 BTC to my Bitcoin wallet, I will consider responding in one of several different unsatisfactory ways.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 08:59:43 PM
I don't understand why Silk Road is so important to Bitcoin?  Please elaborate.
That's an easy one.  The true value of bitcoins to a person who wants to make illegal purchases is the ability of bitcoins to be used for any transaction, however shady, with total safety.  There are a lot of people in this thread who want the goods on Silkroad and consider Bitcoins a means to that end - that is, they consider the Bitcoins only virtue to be unrestricted transactions for any good or service, however the legality.

Tell me, which authority decides which transactions are allowable and which are not? In what method do they have this control?

All I am saying is that if anyone has this authority, Bitcoin has been reduced from a free currency (the original intent) to yet another somewhat novel payment mechanism for fiat money.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 09:03:53 PM
Tell me, which authority decides which transactions are allowable and which are not? In what method do they have this control?

All I am saying is that if anyone has this authority, Bitcoin has been reduced from a free currency (the original intent) to yet another somewhat novel payment mechanism for fiat money.
I agree with you on this one.  You are absolutely correct - although I think calling it a somewhat novel is a tremendous understatement, considering the multitude of its other benefits.  I simply don't think Bitcoin can survive in my country completely unregulated.  I believe that this is bad, but inevitable, for now.  This climate will change, but probably not in my lifetime.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 06, 2011, 09:10:39 PM
What exactly would the benefits of a regulated bitcoin currency be?

I would argue not only on one practical issue (who's gonna do the regulating as mentioned) but on another as well -- grey/black markets would provide much more early influx into the currency that getting other vendors to, who really don't have a REASON to swtich (or at least not one that they are convinced of yet).

Right now, the people motivated for BTC to suceed other than ideologically driven early adopters are people facilitating quasi-legal or illegal market transactions. You may not like that. You make think it looks bad. But it actually has the potential to be a very strong "force for good" within the bitcoin economy -- both in terms of encouraging stronger security and actively seeking out potential flaws and by providing lots of cash flowing in that is being used for actual transactions


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 09:18:37 PM
What exactly would the benefits of a regulated bitcoin currency be?

I would argue not only on one practical issue (who's gonna do the regulating as mentioned) but on another as well -- grey/black markets would provide much more early influx into the currency that getting other vendors to, who really don't have a REASON to swtich (or at least not one that they are convinced of yet).

Right now, the people motivated for BTC to suceed other than ideologically driven early adopters are people facilitating quasi-legal or illegal market transactions. You may not like that. You make think it looks bad. But it actually has the potential to be a very strong "force for good" within the bitcoin economy -- both in terms of encouraging stronger security and actively seeking out potential flaws and by providing lots of cash flowing in that is being used for actual transactions

I am going to alienate every user on these forums with this next bit, but a regulated bitcoin currency would be uncounterfeitable, easily and safely stored, taxable within the regulating economy for the support of beneficial governmental services, all without needing a single bank getting involved at any point.  The banking industry and the united states federal government may be inextricably tangled by now, in which case this situation is impossible.  Bitcoin represents a tremendous threat to the banking industry, and under proper regulation no threat to governmental authorities.  Totally unregulated, Bitcoin is a threat to both parties, and there is no doubt in my mind that the two of them can and will cause a doomsday scenario in the US and other tight-fisted plutocratic countries.  

As for the userbase statement, I'll bet you 5 BTC that if a poll were made in the general bitcoin forums about the motives driving individual interest in the bitcoin movement, the individuals interested in Bitcoins for black transactions would be outnumbered by the users interested in Bitcoins for either personal profit or ideological reasons by at least 3 to 1.  This thread sees a tremendous disparity of idealogy in favor of the black market simply because it is a thread about the black market Bitcoin economy, which uninterested parties aren't even going to take the time to read, much less post in.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: hans030390 on June 06, 2011, 09:22:51 PM
As for the userbase statement, I'll bet you 5 BTC that if a poll were made in the general bitcoin forums about the motives driving individual interest in the bitcoin movement, the individuals interested in Bitcoins for black transactions would be outnumbered by the users interested in Bitcoins for either personal profit or ideological reasons by at least 3 to 1.  This thread sees a tremendous disparity of idealogy in favor of the black market simply because it is a thread about the black market Bitcoin economy, which uninterested parties aren't even going to take the time to read, much less post in.

I'd take that bet...if BTC wasn't worth so much right now...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 09:24:30 PM
I don't understand why Silk Road is so important to Bitcoin?  Please elaborate.
That's an easy one.  The true value of bitcoins is the ability of bitcoins to be used for any transaction with no centralized entity arbitrating that transaction.

I fixed that for you, since it seemed like you were using a lot of unnecessary words to make the core point.

Silk Road, individually, is not important to Bitcoin. If Silk Road decided they wanted to shut down tomorrow, Bitcoin would still live on.

Silk Road, as a concept - that is, a way to perform financial transactions that are not agreeable to 100% of the people with power - is absolutely essential to Bitcoin. The entire purpose of Bitcoin is that no one entity ever gets to decide whether a transaction happens or not, for any reason.


If you argue that the reason you want to use Bitcoin is to get out from underneath the thumb of those entities with large amounts of power, then you can't turn around and argue that we should let those entities have power over Bitcoin. And giving them the power to deny transactions at a whim is, essentially, handing them Bitcoin on a silver platter.

I'll bet you 5 BTC that if a poll were made in the general bitcoin forums about the motives driving individual interest in the bitcoin movement, the individuals interested in Bitcoins for black transactions would be outnumbered by the users interested in Bitcoins for either personal profit or ideological reasons by at least 3 to 1.

You didn't really explain what the advantage of a regulated bitcoin would be, but you did make an interesting assertion here.

What makes you think that the "ideological reasons" that people are interested in Bitcoin for don't include this exact ideology? What other ideological reasons could one have for using Bitcoin beyond the ideology of "I think my money should be free from interference from any entity"?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 09:26:07 PM
I would prefer not to continue our previous discussion until you have answered the question I posed to you directly, anisoptera.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 09:36:21 PM
I would prefer not to continue our previous discussion until you have answered the question I posed to you directly, anisoptera.

Someone else answered it exactly how I would have answered it so I didn't bother, but I'll repeat their answer.

Silkroad could not exist without Bitcoin. There are sites like Silkroad that do not use Bitcoin, but they aren't Silk Road because they don't use Bitcoin. Only Bitcoin offers the features required for a Silk Road.

So the only remaining answer to your question is Bitcoin - but a Bitcoin which made Silk Road(s) impossible would not be Bitcoin. It would be some other currency that made arbitrary moral decisions about the acceptability of transactions. At that point we might as well be using Flooz.

In other words, your question is completely unanswerable because it's a false dichotomy.

Now answer my question. What would be the purpose of a "regulated Bitcoin"? That is, what would be the functional difference between (I'll use the US here) the USD, which is a regulated, centralized, electronically transferrable currency issued by a central authority, and US-Bitcoin, the centralized, regulated, electronically transferrable currency issued by a central authority with a blockchain?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 06, 2011, 09:37:26 PM
I would prefer not to continue our previous discussion until you have answered the question I posed to you directly, anisoptera.

You mean this?

If you had to choose one service to survive, dooming the other one to failure, would it be Bitcoin, or Silkroad?

It's a bullshit question and you know it.

Silk Road cannot survive without Bitcoin (or some other pseudonymous decentralized currency).

Bitcoin will survive whether or not Silk Road fails.

Bitcoin will not survive if there is a central authority that can stop Silk Road from processing payments.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 09:39:19 PM
I do not accept your answer, anisoptera.  I have nothing more to say to you, because it is obvious where your true loyalties lie.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 06, 2011, 09:44:03 PM
As for the userbase statement, I'll bet you 5 BTC that if a poll were made in the general bitcoin forums about the motives driving individual interest in the bitcoin movement, the individuals interested in Bitcoins for black transactions would be outnumbered by the users interested in Bitcoins for either personal profit or ideological reasons by at least 3 to 1.  This thread sees a tremendous disparity of idealogy in favor of the black market simply because it is a thread about the black market Bitcoin economy, which uninterested parties aren't even going to take the time to read, much less post in.

That's irrelevant. I am not talking about these forums (how long do we really think all bitcoin users will be posting on these forums) but about potential for growth in the next 1-5 years. There IS a huge potential for BTC to be taken up to facilitate black/grey transactions, not as much other transactions (barring some huge collapse of some fiat currency).

But this whole discussion is irrelevant since I haven't heard any viable proposal of regulating bitcoins. You don't think a similar unregulated currency would pop up within a week? Even with internet gambling, the only reason it was able be regulated was because there were bank accounts to freeze. (Even there, arguably the bigger deal was that there was an incredible amount of money laundering going on, to the extent of actually buying banks to facilitate online poker transactions in the US).

Even if you do not accept my assertion, that as distasteful as it may be for some, black markets represent the greatest uptake potential of BTC (and not just drugs, but paying informants, bribes, weapons dealing, and prob even more unsavory market deals etc etc) there is simply no way to work around it.

and I don't nec think BTC will INCREASE this actual activity, it will just shift from cash and other payment methods towards BTC. In fact for some activities, it is likely to decrease overall levels of violence, etc just as any de facto decriminalization of an activity tends to.

If gov't really wants to capitalize on this, then will regulate and tax drugs and make it EASIER to buy drugs with your credit card at your local corner store much the way itunes has capitalized on music even in the realm of easy digital piracy.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 09:48:19 PM
I do not accept your answer, anisoptera.  I have nothing more to say to you, because it is obvious where your true loyalties lie.

"You didn't fall into my incredibly transparent and ill-thought-out trap by giving me the answer I wanted, and I can't defend my incredibly flimsy position, so I'm going to make a thinly-veiled "You just want to buy drugs" comment to discredit you."

Hint: the point of bitcoin is not to eliminate entities called "banks".


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 09:54:11 PM
If gov't really wants to capitalize on this, then will regulate and tax drugs and make it EASIER to buy drugs with your credit card at your local corner store much the way itunes has capitalized on music even in the realm of easy digital piracy.
But they won't - nor do I think they have the initiative or the savvy to incorporate the tremendously beneficial changes that Bitcoins could usher in for this country, when it would be so much easier just to attack the people involved.  I consider Bitcoins and the United States too mutually incompatible in terms of ideologies to function together without compromises on both sides.  For this reason, Bitcoins presence here, in one of the world's largest economies, is ultimately doomed.

To those of you who believe that they won't find a way to stop us here, you sorely underestimate the dogged, blind ruthlessness that this country brings to bear when enforcing its ideologies.  Look at our jails, stuffed to capacity with good natured minor marijuana offenders if you need any evidence of this fanaticism.  As a citizen of the united states, I find all of this deeply disappointing - Bitcoins will thrive elsewhere, but I will not be able to partake in the movement for much longer without extensive risk to myself.

And you black marketeers, while you aren't the ultimate reason for Bitcoin's eventual local failure, you have the honor of being the first straw man they've set ablaze in what is - for now - strictly a PR war.

And anisoptera?  Spark up another doobie.  I've invented a new name for your kind on these boards - I'm calling you "Roadies" from here on out.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 09:54:27 PM
You don't think a similar unregulated currency would pop up within a week? Even with internet gambling, the only reason it was able be regulated was because there were bank accounts to freeze.
Exactly - the US government used its power over the financial institutions in the US to control the world economy in some way. It was able to prevent financial transactions between two independent parties from taking place because it did not find those transactions acceptable.

Quote
(Even there, arguably the bigger deal was that there was an incredible amount of money laundering going on, to the extent of actually buying banks to facilitate online poker transactions in the US).

The money laundering charges were just how the DOJ finally got something to go on, since online poker isn't actually illegal in the US.

The reason they cracked down on this so hard was because of corporate (casino) interests.


But yeah. Bitcoin would totally be better off regulated. We need someone to monitor our transactions and tell us when we're doing something wrong.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 09:55:33 PM
And anisoptera?  Spark up another doobie.

::)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 09:57:17 PM
This is going to stun you, but I'm actually a long haired hippie, and I'm definitely pro-decriminalization.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 09:59:57 PM
This is going to stun you, but I'm actually a long haired hippie, and I'm definitely pro-decriminalization.

Oooh. Decriminalization. Long hair. Well, that lets all the air out of my arguments.

Which weren't about drugs. At all. And if you actually don't understand that, and aren't just trolling me, I'm really sorry for you.

Do you also think that free speech should be limited because the KKK might say something bad?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 06, 2011, 10:01:30 PM
You don't think a similar unregulated currency would pop up within a week? Even with internet gambling, the only reason it was able be regulated was because there were bank accounts to freeze.
Exactly - the US government used its power over the financial institutions in the US to control the world economy in some way. It was able to prevent financial transactions between two independent parties from taking place because it did not find those transactions acceptable.

So, uh, yeah, see that's why I like bitcoin, because it eliminates their power to do that. You can't argue for regulation with one hand and then with the argue cry frustration about what happens when you allow that regulation.

Quote
The money laundering charges were just how the DOJ finally got something to go on, since online poker isn't actually illegal in the US.

The reason they cracked down on this so hard was because of corporate (casino) interests.

Nah, casinos gave up that canard a while ago. I think it was just as motivated by the fact that UIGEA created the incentives to essentially create giant black holes of fradulent transactions where anything could have been going on.

Bitcoin is, by its very nature, a giant black hole (spare me the discussion of a transparent block chain), so whether or not the silk road exists, it is a tremendous threat to the surveillance state. Again, how do you propose to regulate bitcoin? Pretend that I agreed with all your assertions 100% and was just saying okay, that sounds great, but how do we do it?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 10:02:58 PM
also, an interesting thing I just thought of.

In the US, the supreme court has ruled that money is speech. Corporations are allowed to give freely and anonymously to political causes, because money is speech; corporations have personhood; and people have the First Amendment right to free speech.


So if money is speech, and speech is supposed to be free of regulation by the government... why does Bitcoin need regulation?

Bitcoin is, by its very nature, a giant black hole (spare me the discussion of a transparent block chain), so whether or not the silk road exists, it is a tremendous threat to the surveillance state. Again, how do you propose to regulate bitcoin? Pretend that I agreed with all your assertions 100% and was just saying okay, that sounds great, but how do we do it?

I wasn't arguing with you. :) I'm not the one begging for regulation.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 06, 2011, 10:04:21 PM
opps sorry anisoptera. totally read your response as coming from goldenmaw which was REALLY confusing me :)

I am still interested both in how you think this regulation occurs goldenmaw and how in our surveillance/police state that is, as you mentioned, stuffed to the gills with people incarcerated for growing or smoking a plant, you are going to convince the powers that be that they should embrace and regulate this new emerging technology and that it is not a threat to their power.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 10:07:39 PM
Oooh. Decriminalization. Long hair. Well, that lets all the air out of my arguments.

Which weren't about drugs. At all. And if you actually don't understand that, and aren't just trolling me, I'm really sorry for you.
I have been completely serious about every single thing I have said to you.  You want bitcoins strictly for their purchasing power in black market goods.  There is a whole world of virtue besides this, and you aren't a part of it.  
Quote
Do you also think that free speech should be limited because the KKK might say something bad?
Speaking of strawman arguments.

I can't think of any better ways to state the things I have said to you.  Our interest in bitcoins stem from terminally disparate sources.  We will never reach agreement or meaningful conclusion like this.  Pretend I am bowing out of the argument because I have been defeated.  It matters not at all.  What will come, will come, and your anarchistic fantasies won't stop it.  It is too soon for your ideals in my country.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on June 06, 2011, 10:07:53 PM
...and this was such a nice thread before this nonsense...

Now, people looking for info, will have to go through all this dick waving.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
opps sorry anisoptera. totally read your response as coming from goldenmaw which was REALLY confusing me :)

I am still interested both in how you think this regulation occurs goldenmaw and how in our surveillance/police state that is, as you mentioned, stuffed to the gills with people incarcerated for growing or smoking a plant, you are going to convince the powers that be that they should embrace and regulate this new emerging technology and that it is not a threat to their power.

Now, this is interesting!  Firstly, any hypotheticals I put forward here are hinged on an indefensible and indeed unlikely premise, and another one that defies one of the most obvious design goals of bitcoin - that the federal government could be tempted to abandon the banking establishments with the lure of how easy it would be for a governing body to track and control the movement of bitcoins for the purposes of maintaining a healthy and stable government, were they to be centralized.  

The next thing I lay down is that, the currency of a country's populace must be taxable for that country to survive.  Period.  We, the people, must be taxed, or we can have no government.  "Hooray!",  say the Anarchists, until their murder and pillage by some stronger and better armed Anarchists.  We need our government to be capable of protecting us from harm and to safeguard our well being.

That established, all that would be required for the taxation and regulation of bitcoin usage is to do the unthinkable and centralize it, requiring communication with federal servers to track and verify bitcoin exchanges.  What if the miners connected to these servers in one massive, publicly driven pool?  This would afford Bitcoins all of the benefits of Bitcoin usage except for the purchasing of illegal goods and services.  Banking establishments - the real enemy, here - would simply be written out of the picture, as safeguarding one's life savings is as easy as stashing an encrypted CD containing one's bitcoin wallet, freeing my country from the shackles of bondage that is rapidly annihilating our middle-class.  Inflation, thanks to the powerfully designed preventative measures inherent in Bitcoin's structure, might well still become a thing of the past under such a scenario, although some unconscious part of me suspects that the deflationary measures are in a twisted way hinged on their exchangeability with the inflating USD.  I can't put that worry to words just yet, so don't ask.

Finally, the decentralization of how bitcoins are "printed", coupled with the grotesque difficulty involved in counterfeiting, would revolutionize the stability of what I'll now call the "US-B".  Really, this situation contains all the benefits of the Bitcoin except the inherently anarchistic ones - most notably the traits that the folks I've argued with all afternoon in this thread value the most.


And that ends that fantasy.  The more I think about this, the more damned Bitcoin seems in my country.  That scenario can't happen - power structures loathe change as buildings loathe earthquakes.  The banks have my country by the balls, and Bitcoin's pseudo-anonymity can't stop it.  


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FreeMoney on June 06, 2011, 10:34:07 PM
...and this was such a nice thread before this nonsense...

Now, people looking for info, will have to go through all this dick waving.

I don't think ani has a dick.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 06, 2011, 11:40:17 PM
You want bitcoins strictly for their purchasing power in black market goods.  There is a whole world of virtue besides this, and you aren't a part of it.

No. I don't. One of the primary attributes of bitcoins I do value just happens to be the same one that provides them with black market purchasing power.

Quote
the decentralization of how bitcoins are "printed", coupled with the grotesque difficulty involved in counterfeiting, would revolutionize the stability of what I'll now call the "US-B".

So you think that a government would regulate and legitimize a currency that they do not have the power to issue?



And I'm the dreamer here?

I don't think ani has a dick.

:)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on June 06, 2011, 11:46:44 PM
opps sorry anisoptera. totally read your response as coming from goldenmaw which was REALLY confusing me :)

I am still interested both in how you think this regulation occurs goldenmaw and how in our surveillance/police state that is, as you mentioned, stuffed to the gills with people incarcerated for growing or smoking a plant, you are going to convince the powers that be that they should embrace and regulate this new emerging technology and that it is not a threat to their power.

Now, this is interesting!  Firstly, any hypotheticals I put forward here are hinged on an indefensible and indeed unlikely premise, and another one that defies one of the most obvious design goals of bitcoin - that the federal government could be tempted to abandon the banking establishments with the lure of how easy it would be for a governing body to track and control the movement of bitcoins for the purposes of maintaining a healthy and stable government, were they to be centralized.  

The next thing I lay down is that, the currency of a country's populace must be taxable for that country to survive.  Period.  We, the people, must be taxed, or we can have no government.  "Hooray!",  say the Anarchists, until their murder and pillage by some stronger and better armed Anarchists.  We need our government to be capable of protecting us from harm and to safeguard our well being.

That established, all that would be required for the taxation and regulation of bitcoin usage is to do the unthinkable and centralize it, requiring communication with federal servers to track and verify bitcoin exchanges.  What if the miners connected to these servers in one massive, publicly driven pool?  This would afford Bitcoins all of the benefits of Bitcoin usage except for the purchasing of illegal goods and services.  Banking establishments - the real enemy, here - would simply be written out of the picture, as safeguarding one's life savings is as easy as stashing an encrypted CD containing one's bitcoin wallet, freeing my country from the shackles of bondage that is rapidly annihilating our middle-class.  Inflation, thanks to the powerfully designed preventative measures inherent in Bitcoin's structure, might well still become a thing of the past under such a scenario, although some unconscious part of me suspects that the deflationary measures are in a twisted way hinged on their exchangeability with the inflating USD.  I can't put that worry to words just yet, so don't ask.

Finally, the decentralization of how bitcoins are "printed", coupled with the grotesque difficulty involved in counterfeiting, would revolutionize the stability of what I'll now call the "US-B".  Really, this situation contains all the benefits of the Bitcoin except the inherently anarchistic ones - most notably the traits that the folks I've argued with all afternoon in this thread value the most.


And that ends that fantasy.  The more I think about this, the more damned Bitcoin seems in my country.  That scenario can't happen - power structures loathe change as buildings loathe earthquakes.  The banks have my country by the balls, and Bitcoin's pseudo-anonymity can't stop it.  

You are in a dream world. This is why your country, any many others like it, are damned. Welcome to an earthquake technology.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 11:48:53 PM
You are in a dream world. This is why your country, any many others like it, are damned. Welcome to an earthquake technology.

I said it was a fantasy.  Damned is such a great word for it.  The way my country is organized has it so barricaded against the emergence of Bitcoins that I'm starting to think that it would take nothing short of an armed nerd revolution to see it through.

Worse still is the sheer number of users in the relatively tech-savvy USA who stand to lose a great deal when the hammer finally falls.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 06, 2011, 11:54:25 PM
...black transactions ... black market...
Why's it gotta be "black"?

Because I'm not sure what's really going on here I don't think I'm in any position to judge what is or isn't "feasible."
I think that will a little bit of due diligence, you know, reading up on Bitcoin some more, reading the thread, perusing Silk Road, you'll find yourself in a better position to contribute to the thread with useful suggestions and debate. I write this entirely without snark in the hopes of driving the point that the people running Silk Road have no power to exclude anyone. Its operators can try to ban certain products, but they will just show up under different names. As we know (and for those who hadn't, you're welcome), in the absence of an adult services section, you need to proof-read for accidental innuendos in your Craigslist post, lest you encounter a large woman with a strap-on instead of the pegboard you expected. Furthermore, the folks at Silk Road can't stop those running a Silk Road clone from catering to people wishing to trade in whatever products the original had banned.

Quote
If it's a hoax, it's beautiful.  On the other hand if it is not a hoax...
Let's just assume that it's not a hoax.

Quote
...then I believe it becomes part of the problem. Certainly nothing like cartels and gangs, yet still operating as if it, Silk Road, were above the law.  My aim has always been to change the law and make things better for everybody, except of course those who get fat off the way the law is today.
Everyone, raise your hand if you broke the law today. Working within the bounds of the law will only get us so far, so fast. Is the thought of breaking the system, or letting it break itself, so bad? Se cayó.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 06, 2011, 11:58:12 PM
I didn't come up with that naming convention, and I refuse to carry that particular torch!  I'm way, way uphill in this thread as it is.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: marcus_of_augustus on June 07, 2011, 12:01:25 AM
Quote
Worse still is the sheer number of users in the relatively tech-savvy USA who stand to lose a great deal when the hammer finally falls.

Bring it. The govt. and banksters have put them out of work and on the scrap heap so they have nothing to lose.

I think you are starting to "get it". The free market will not be denied what it needs. Right now it needs the bitcoin monetary product more than any other technology or product out there. The current monetary products are busted, legal, moral, ethical, rubber-stamped ivy-league lauded or otherwise. Or have you been off the grid for the last 10 years?

Go against the free market at your absolute peril.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 12:19:03 AM
Bring it. The govt. and banksters have put them out of work and on the scrap heap so they have nothing to lose.

I think you are starting to "get it". The free market will not be denied what it needs. Right now it needs the bitcoin monetary product more than any other technology or product out there. The current monetary products are busted, legal, moral, ethical, rubber-stamped ivy-league lauded or otherwise. Or have you been off the grid for the last 10 years?

Go against the free market at your absolute peril.
What you are speaking of will require violent revolution to bring about, without the cooperation of my government.  If that is the way of things, so be it.  I got this from the very beginning.  What I don't get is the people here who believe that bitcoins can exist in the defiance of a power structure that has every reason to stop bitcoins.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 07, 2011, 12:21:56 AM
Bring it. The govt. and banksters have put them out of work and on the scrap heap so they have nothing to lose.

I think you are starting to "get it". The free market will not be denied what it needs. Right now it needs the bitcoin monetary product more than any other technology or product out there. The current monetary products are busted, legal, moral, ethical, rubber-stamped ivy-league lauded or otherwise. Or have you been off the grid for the last 10 years?

Go against the free market at your absolute peril.
What you are speaking of will require violent revolution to bring about, without the cooperation of my government.  If that is the way of things, so be it.  I got this from the very beginning.  What I don't get is the people here who believe that bitcoins can exist in the defiance of a power structure that has every reason to stop bitcoins.

You give governments too much credit.  They are, after all, simply vast organizations of people.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 12:23:42 AM
Vaster and far better armed than the bitcoin movement, my friend.  And it'll stay that way without the people on our side.  How are we to leverage public opinion in the defense of bitcoins?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 07, 2011, 12:30:40 AM
Vaster and far better armed than the bitcoin movement, my friend.  And it'll stay that way without the people on our side.  How are we to leverage public opinion in the defense of bitcoins?

by letting them buy drugs hahahaha ;)



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 12:31:59 AM
Cute, but totally inadequate.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 07, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Vaster and far better armed than the bitcoin movement, my friend. 

I doubt that seriously.  A war machine on the scale of the US military is ill equipt for a occupation of it's own citizenry.  I should know, I was once part of that military machine.  I, like many of my brethren, saw the ugly truth of our nationalism writ large from the inside of that machine.  The only way to do what you expect that they will do, is to use loyal manpower willing to kill in the defense of an ideal.  Not only is this already a limited subset of the population at it is, it would rapidly decrease once the whole thing started.  One man can only carry one rifle at a time, so in the end the whole of the Us military is at a disadvantage.  And I'm sure that you would discount this as rediculous, because you believe that the public favors the government as such.  And this is probably true at present, but nothing less than a civil war is going to stop the breakdown of the status quo now; and if the government starts a civil war with it's own citizenry, it's going to have more than a crisis of confidence on it's hands.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 12:43:40 AM
We don't have the numbers to force a military action.  They'll label us criminals, round us up for fraud, counterfeiting and what have you, and any of us dumb enough to take up arms will be labeled terrorists on fox news and, if they manage to evade being killed outright, they'll be imprisoned too.  All they'd need to use is the DEA's current infrastructure to serve up warrants for raids, and local enforcement would handle it from there.

And where would we get revolutionary numbers, when the John Q Public has either yet to hear of bitcoins, or he has heard bad things?

I have introduced the topic of revolution in some of these discussions to point out the depressing impossibility of defiant use of bitcoins in this country, at this time.  Not as a serious idea.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 07, 2011, 12:51:53 AM
We don't have the numbers to force a military action.  They'll label us criminals, round us up for fraud, counterfeiting and what have you, and any of us dumb enough to take up arms will be labeled terrorists on fox news and, if they manage to evade being killed outright, they'll be imprisoned too.  All they'd need to use is the DEA's current infrastructure to serve up warrants for raids, and local enforcement would handle it from there.

And where would we get revolutionary numbers, when the John Q Public has either yet to hear of bitcoins, or he has heard bad things?

I have introduced the topic of revolution in some of these discussions to point out the depressing impossibility of defiant use of bitcoins in this country, at this time.  Not as a serious idea.

You don't get it.  There is no "us".  I won't be participating in any military actions, and neither will you.  The nation state is imploding by it's own weight.  It's only an idea anyway.  If a civil war begins, it will be because the powers-that-be couldn't figure out how to stop, and thus began eating each other on the way down.  This is how all empires have failed throughout history, but unlike those in the past, the Internet has enabled new forms of self-organizations so that a new nation state need not rise up from the ashes of the old one.  What comes next isn't going to be entirely unfamiliar to you, but nor is it going to be something you would have predicted.  The Internet enables not just vast, rapid and cheap communications (a necessary element to any social order on the scale of a nation-state) but also Bitcoin.  Bitcoin thus enables the phyle, an entirely novel form of civil order.  The near term is likely to be a bit scary for you, but assuming that you don't lose your mind (or your life) in the meantime; the long view will be grander than you seem capable of imagining.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 01:03:05 AM
I beg your pardon, bold visionary.  I am humbled by your mighty condescension and now realize the error of my ways.  I should not have imagined this icky power structure to be the only lasting ideal mankind could aspire to.  In the future I will ask your permission before trying to think.  May I fetch you a cold beverage, or perhaps your favorite Isaac Asimov novel?

Sarcasm finished.  Time to throw down the gauntlet.  You're not going to live to see that glorious future, smartass.  Our nerdy imaginings aren't going to be how the average human being operates for a few more generations, barring space alien intervention.  You disagree?  Fine.  We'll reconvene in 2090 and discuss how things went.  Until then, cork it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 07, 2011, 01:06:33 AM
Until then, cork it.

Same to you, Corky.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 01:07:24 AM
We've got ourselves one hell of a cease-fire.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 07, 2011, 01:08:19 AM
We've got ourselves one hell of a cease-fire.

I find myself laughing even more at the meaning of your handle.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 01:11:14 AM
Oh, crap!  Betrayed by my own subconscious, again.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: phonomancer on June 07, 2011, 03:03:50 AM
Oh, crap!  Betrayed by my own subconscious, again.

Fun debate guys, nice to watch.

I sense a generation gap. 

Myself, I sit right in between the two of you. 

Personally, I'd like to see some tactical thinking on how to mainstream BTC and how to get some anchors in the political/legal system to keep the wolves at bay at least for a while.  Right now, time is on our side and power is on theirs.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 07, 2011, 10:20:16 AM
...black transactions ... black market...
Why's it gotta be "black"?

Because I'm not sure what's really going on here I don't think I'm in any position to judge what is or isn't "feasible."
I think that will a little bit of due diligence, you know, reading up on Bitcoin some more, reading the thread, perusing Silk Road, you'll find yourself in a better position to contribute to the thread with useful suggestions and debate. I write this entirely without snark in the hopes of driving the point that the people running Silk Road have no power to exclude anyone. Its operators can try to ban certain products, but they will just show up under different names. As we know (and for those who hadn't, you're welcome), in the absence of an adult services section, you need to proof-read for accidental innuendos in your Craigslist post, lest you encounter a large woman with a strap-on instead of the pegboard you expected. Furthermore, the folks at Silk Road can't stop those running a Silk Road clone from catering to people wishing to trade in whatever products the original had banned.

Quote
If it's a hoax, it's beautiful.  On the other hand if it is not a hoax...
Let's just assume that it's not a hoax.

Quote
...then I believe it becomes part of the problem. Certainly nothing like cartels and gangs, yet still operating as if it, Silk Road, were above the law.  My aim has always been to change the law and make things better for everybody, except of course those who get fat off the way the law is today.
Everyone, raise your hand if you broke the law today. Working within the bounds of the law will only get us so far, so fast. Is the thought of breaking the system, or letting it break itself, so bad? Se cayó.

Or was she pushed?

I have given it some thought, about suggestions on handling illegal drug transactions in an ethical and moral fashion sans rule of law.  I conclude that SR or anyone else for that matter, should follow standard harm-reduction principles as much as possible. 

I think the first priority should be to design and implement an age-verify system.  An unrelated 3rd party could be contracted to, given a name, date and place of birth, use public records to verify the buyer's age then return a special key to the buyer.  The seller can then request that key as needed, and use it in a query on the 3rd party's server to return an accept or reject directive.

I guess it could not be mandatory, but perhaps it could be rewarded by positive reputation points for sellers who require age-verify.  I suppose too that once age-verify has been established true, the same seller and buyer would not need to repeat the process so it would only impact the first transaction.

Sellers or SR or both should make the following absolutely clear to all buyers of hard drugs:

  • The safest drug use is no use.
  • Never take a drug you do not completely understand.
  • Do not inject or consume any narcotic alone, if possible have a non-user by your side.
  • Never mix alcohol use and narcotics.
  • Always use a new, sterile rig when injecting.
  • Follow appropriate cleaning (sterile pads) of the injection site prior to injection.
  • If you feel you need help dealing with drug addiction call this help line (research a service)

There are additional guidelines that would be more appropriate for other substances that should also be considered.  And of course any manufacturers and pharmaceutical information, instructions, pamphlets, or packing material should be included in every order of this sort.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 07, 2011, 10:57:17 AM
Fun debate guys, nice to watch.
Thanks.  I enjoyed it.  There are a lot of extremely intelligent people here, and that includes the entire roster of people who have been my volcanic opposition during this.  Conflict of ideologies, I suppose.

As for the debate itself, this is only beginning.  Bitcoin is developing an image problem, and I truly believe that is the most dangerous possible problem for it right now.  If it isn't adopted (regardless of why), and used by the general populace for trade of everyday goods and services, I cannot imagine how it is to retain its value in the long run.  I will say that if it is driven underground as a solely black market currency, I'm simply going to get off the boat.  And god help the miners - they'll be so easy to catch if the USA decides to allocate its resources to the punishment of the Bitcoin end-user.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Slushpuppy on June 07, 2011, 11:08:10 AM
Hey guys I made an account on silk road ten days ago and as of three days ago something really weird happens. I get to the main page, type username and password in, press "go" the page then redirects me to the same page (like if I had pressed "refresh") and I am not logged in. I have tried making a new account, and then when I type that in, it does the same thing. Ive turned off guiminer, bitcoin and utorrent, did not help. three days ago I could access my profile, and looking at the forums no one else is having this problem. All avenues for help on this matter require me to be logged in (fffffffuuuuuuuuu!) can someone shed some light on what is happening?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 07, 2011, 11:56:18 AM
Fun debate guys, nice to watch.
Thanks.  I enjoyed it.  There are a lot of extremely intelligent people here, and that includes the entire roster of people who have been my volcanic opposition during this.  Conflict of ideologies, I suppose.

As for the debate itself, this is only beginning.  Bitcoin is developing an image problem, and I truly believe that is the most dangerous possible problem for it right now.  If it isn't adopted (regardless of why), and used by the general populace for trade of everyday goods and services, I cannot imagine how it is to retain its value in the long run.  I will say that if it is driven underground as a solely black market currency, I'm simply going to get off the boat.  And god help the miners - they'll be so easy to catch if the USA decides to allocate its resources to the punishment of the Bitcoin end-user.

You win!  You got message 420, I hope you're happy now... :D

This has been the most intelligent and passionate discussion I've been involved in since last year's Gulf oil disaster at PeakOil dot com.  It's amazing what happens when a bunch of people get focused.

I think you make a valid point, Bitcoin and especially Silk Road are "developing an image problem".  I don't know what Bitcoin can do in regrds its relationship to SR, maybe doing nothing is the best thing right now.  Clearly the public focus is on SR.  I laid out a few ideas below on some things I think SR sellers should be doing with hard drug transactions.  And while it's certainly not the definitive last-word I do beleive these kinds of ideas (known as harm reduction) can help mitigate that image thingy.  Implementing harm reduction into its business model is not only the right thing to do, it also gives SR more credibility as a viable alternative to the street.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 07, 2011, 01:08:34 PM
Or was she pushed?
Mrs. White, in the library, with the keyboard, or something.

Quote
I have given it some thought, about suggestions on handling illegal drug transactions in an ethical and moral fashion sans rule of law.  I conclude that SR or anyone else for that matter, should follow standard harm-reduction principles as much as possible. 

I think the first priority should be to design and implement an age-verify system.  An unrelated 3rd party could be contracted to, given a name, date and place of birth, use public records to verify the buyer's age then return a special key to the buyer.  The seller can then request that key as needed, and use it in a query on the 3rd party's server to return an accept or reject directive.

I guess it could not be mandatory, but perhaps it could be rewarded by positive reputation points for sellers who require age-verify.  I suppose too that once age-verify has been established true, the same seller and buyer would not need to repeat the process so it would only impact the first transaction.
I suppose that might work sans law, but sans law, the Silk Road model wouldn't serve any purpose. Furthermore, the law precludes any such age verification because of the risks involved in conducting such extralegal transactions.

Quote
Sellers or SR or both should make the following absolutely clear to all buyers of hard drugs:

  • The safest drug use is no use.
  • Never take a drug you do not completely understand.
  • Do not inject or consume any narcotic alone, if possible have a non-user by your side.
  • Never mix alcohol use and narcotics.
  • Always use a new, sterile rig when injecting.
  • Follow appropriate cleaning (sterile pads) of the injection site prior to injection.
  • If you feel you need help dealing with drug addiction call this help line (research a service)

There are additional guidelines that would be more appropriate for other substances that should also be considered.  And of course any manufacturers and pharmaceutical information, instructions, pamphlets, or packing material should be included in every order of this sort.
These are reasonable suggestions, but, beyond general advice like set and setting, I think Silk Road could better serve its users by referring them to authoritative sources like Erowid rather than duplicating the information and trying to keep it up to date. No need to run the risk of falling behind.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 07, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
I don't know what Bitcoin can do in regrds its relationship to SR, maybe doing nothing is the best thing right now. 

Who is Bitcoin? How can it "do" anything? Put a statement on the website that BTCs are not to be used for transactions that are illegal in their country of origin or destination?

Quote
Implementing harm reduction into its business model is not only the right thing to do, it also gives SR more credibility as a viable alternative to the street.

I'm all for harm reduction, but the US does not have a smidgen of sense when it relates to drug warrior crusading. If you think packaging vicodins with instructions for doing a cold water extraction or telling people not to trip for the first time without a sitter is going to draw heat off of silk road, I think you're wrong.

Those of you that think bitcoins shouldn't be used for illegal transactions have a golden opportunity. If what you say is true, then fork the project, start mining, and when the inevitable BTC shutdown occurs you will be in perfect place to offer people a perfectly safe and centralized peer-to-peer currency.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greenfloyd on June 07, 2011, 03:18:44 PM
Who is Bitcoin? How can it "do" anything? Put a statement on the website that BTCs are not to be used for transactions that are illegal in their country of origin or destination?

Since Bitcoin is a non-entity, entity I guess it doesn't matter that many people will identify it with that web site that sells drugs...

Quote
I'm all for harm reduction, but the US does not have a smidgen of sense when it relates to drug warrior crusading. If you think packaging vicodins with instructions for doing a cold water extraction or telling people not to trip for the first time without a sitter is going to draw heat off of silk road, I think you're wrong.

That is simply not true.  There are many people in every city and most public health agencies working full-time to reduce the harms of drug abuse.  Of course you are right about the "drug warriors" far outnumber HR workers.  I'm not suggesting HR will "draw heat off of Silk Road," in fact it might even increase it when more people realize this is a better way to handle hard drugs.  I believe giving people basic operating instructions should be SOP, both for ethical and pr reasons.

Quote
Those of you that think bitcoins shouldn't be used for illegal transactions have a golden opportunity. If what you say is true, then fork the project, start mining, and when the inevitable BTC shutdown occurs you will be in perfect place to offer people a perfectly safe and centralized peer-to-peer currency.

I don't get it?  If who said what?  What's "fork the project" mean?  Mining? What is BTC


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: baeF3gah on June 08, 2011, 12:34:31 AM
Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 08, 2011, 12:43:32 AM
Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Why does this keep coming up?  No, Tor is unreliable by it's nature.  It's very unlikely that the feds could isolate Silk Road's server and less likely that they are stupid enough to put it where the feds can get to it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: baeF3gah on June 08, 2011, 12:54:09 AM
Why does this keep coming up?  No, Tor is unreliable by it's nature.  It's very unlikely that the feds could isolate Silk Road's server and less likely that they are stupid enough to put it where the feds can get to it.
OK. Thanks for the clarification.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on June 08, 2011, 01:25:44 AM
Or even if they do, it would be useless to them


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: NaN on June 08, 2011, 01:30:53 AM
Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Just watched it go down myself.  Connected once just fine, and then the white screen.  Could be a bad node.  Glad to see others are experiencing the same problem, and that I didn't get banned or something crazy like that...

I'll try again some other time or change my VPN server to another coast and report back!

BTW: GoldenFrog's VPN (https://www.goldenfrog.com/vyprvpn/vpn-service-provider) works great as another added layer of protection


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: kokojie on June 08, 2011, 02:39:39 AM
so how do you register for an user name with silk road? all I see is a login box with no register link.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Lpanther on June 08, 2011, 03:02:19 AM
Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Just watched it go down myself.  Connected once just fine, and then the white screen.  Could be a bad node.  Glad to see others are experiencing the same problem, and that I didn't get banned or something crazy like that...

I'll try again some other time or change my VPN server to another coast and report back!

BTW: GoldenFrog's VPN (https://www.goldenfrog.com/vyprvpn/vpn-service-provider) works great as another added layer of protection

Well, I signed up less than 48 hours ago and now experience the two text boxes and submit button, but when entering my username and password I can log in and navigate through the website normally.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: kokojie on June 08, 2011, 03:17:25 AM
Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Just watched it go down myself.  Connected once just fine, and then the white screen.  Could be a bad node.  Glad to see others are experiencing the same problem, and that I didn't get banned or something crazy like that...

I'll try again some other time or change my VPN server to another coast and report back!

BTW: GoldenFrog's VPN (https://www.goldenfrog.com/vyprvpn/vpn-service-provider) works great as another added layer of protection

Well, I signed up less than 48 hours ago and now experience the two text boxes and submit button, but when entering my username and password I can log in and navigate through the website normally.

Can people still register? mind send me the register link?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Lpanther on June 08, 2011, 03:26:20 AM
Been looking for it for awhile, currently unavailable. There's currently a discussion on the forums about invite only options, etc. However noone has even mentioned the current situation other than the post I just left, If invites end up being the only way to gain accounts ill post to send them, as I'm sure many others will.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: NaN on June 08, 2011, 04:04:38 AM
I think an invite system would probably be a good idea for them.  Like What.CD (http://what.cd/) (to get back on topic)...

As soon as I ran into this problem I started trying to guess the registration route.  Can someone with an account log in and then log out to see if they can get a bead on the register link to paste here?

It has to be something on the server end, since I refreshed my identity and changed my VPN.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: NaN on June 08, 2011, 04:27:52 AM
Cached pages (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KIb6M5T7fnAJ:https://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.tor2web.org/index.php/silkroad/category/70+site:tor2web.org+silk&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com) reveal the registration link, but it appears all routes crash back to the index.  The admins are defiantly putting a halt on all new users...  It used to be simply /register.php but that one doesn't work either.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 05:07:45 AM
Cached pages (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KIb6M5T7fnAJ:https://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.tor2web.org/index.php/silkroad/category/70+site:tor2web.org+silk&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com) reveal the registration link, but it appears all routes crash back to the index.  The admins are defiantly putting a halt on all new users...  It used to be simply /register.php but that one doesn't work either.

Seems that logged-in users are still able to view the registration page and create accounts if one knows the registration URL.  I verified it by making a new account for myself.  I had to manually paste the registration URL into the browser from an existing logged-in account.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: sganesh88 on June 08, 2011, 05:09:28 AM
Well if anyone gets a definitive answer on what the hell happened please post it, or a way to get invited as a member. I spent the day figuring out how to use the whole bitcoin system that's the only reason I hadn't registered then I logged on to register and its just the 2 boxes so if anyone finds out... please help :/


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 05:28:13 AM
Well if anyone gets a definitive answer on what the hell happened please post it, or a way to get invited as a member. I spent the day figuring out how to use the whole bitcoin system that's the only reason I hadn't registered then I logged on to register and its just the 2 boxes so if anyone finds out... please help :/

Check your PMs :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anotheralias on June 08, 2011, 05:31:28 AM
invites actually don't increase security at all

(you think a LEO would have a hard time getting an invitiation?)

and they increase the probability that the person you are dealing with is a LEO because of this. Average user gets frustrated, forgets about it after an hour. LEO gets paid to get an invite.

SR admins, please keep market free and open both as experiment in possibilities and because it actually offers best protection for users.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 05:36:05 AM
invites actually don't increase security at all

(you think a LEO would have a hard time getting an invitiation?)

and they increase the probability that the person you are dealing with is a LEO because of this. Average user gets frustrated, forgets about it after an hour. LEO gets paid to get an invite.

SR admins, please keep market free and open both as experiment in possibilities and because it actually offers best protection for users.


While I somewhat agree with you, closed invite-only systems seem to work pretty well for private bittorrent trackers.  The notable difference, though, is that most content on SR is a quite a bit more illegal.  Still, it's worth the try especially after all the heat from the assholes at Gawker.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wizang on June 08, 2011, 05:42:28 AM
Could anyone spare an invite :(? Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anotheralias on June 08, 2011, 05:42:42 AM
private bittorrent trackers.  The notable difference, though, is that most content on SR is a quite a bit more illegal.  Still, it's worth the try especially after all the heat from the assholes at Gawker.

Private trackers are about keeping seeding ratios up and preventing large influxes of leechers at one time. It's not even stopping the copyright police, mostly because they don't have to worry about it, can harvest there 10,000 IPs for the day's shake down laters from non-private trackers. It's not keeping law enforcement out. You think an invite only system would work for something that actually has law enforcement interest like a CP tracker?

There are two levels of security -- one relies on a small and close circle of trust where people are on a need to know basis and everyone is being vouched for. This only works in very small situations. Even then, not foolproof.

Many users - better security through obscurity. every small barrier you put up creates more problems for regular potential user, not a problem at all for someone whose job it is to circumvent them.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: validity on June 08, 2011, 05:43:35 AM
Well if anyone gets a definitive answer on what the hell happened please post it, or a way to get invited as a member. I spent the day figuring out how to use the whole bitcoin system that's the only reason I hadn't registered then I logged on to register and its just the 2 boxes so if anyone finds out... please help :/

Check your PMs :)

Did you find an answer? :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 08, 2011, 05:44:54 AM
invites actually don't increase security at all

(you think a LEO would have a hard time getting an invitiation?)

and they increase the probability that the person you are dealing with is a LEO because of this. Average user gets frustrated, forgets about it after an hour. LEO gets paid to get an invite.

SR admins, please keep market free and open both as experiment in possibilities and because it actually offers best protection for users.


Nice try, DEA agent.  8)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: iamanon on June 08, 2011, 05:49:24 AM
Registration link disapeared... For security ? Server Update ?

Invitation only now ?

Can someone tell me what happening (or PM me) ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 05:50:16 AM
Well if anyone gets a definitive answer on what the hell happened please post it, or a way to get invited as a member. I spent the day figuring out how to use the whole bitcoin system that's the only reason I hadn't registered then I logged on to register and its just the 2 boxes so if anyone finds out... please help :/

Check your PMs :)

Did you find an answer? :)

Check your PMs.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anotheralias on June 08, 2011, 05:51:05 AM
Nice try, DEA agent.  8)

Right sport. Wrong team.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 05:51:50 AM
Registration link disapeared... For security ? Server Update ?

Invitation only now ?

Can someone tell me what happening (or PM me) ?

The SR staff isn't giving away much information but supposedly it's to stifle the craziness after the Gawker article.  Things should return back to normal in due time, but no telling how long it'll be.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: iamanon on June 08, 2011, 05:54:42 AM
And I guess there's no invitations going on ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 06:01:15 AM
And I guess there's no invitations going on ?

Check your PMs :)

Last person who I help.  Gotta go to bed.  Have fun everyone!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: SpeaKeasY on June 08, 2011, 06:11:55 AM
If anyone has an extra invite plox?

~medicating


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: viridian on June 08, 2011, 06:25:20 AM
When I saw Silk Road I realised it was precisely what I've been looking for. I researched acquiring bit coins and set up a bit coin miner. My PC is in NO way capable of crunching the numbers at a satistfactory rate, so I signed up to a bit coin marketplace to buy myself some bit coins. This morning I was finally validated and able to buy, so I went back to Silk Road to check prices, and found it suddenly concealed!

I do suspect you're going to see a lot of similar requests in short order, but in the absence of other options, is anyone able to help me gain a login to Silk Road? I'm kicking myself that I didn't create a login when I had the opportunity!

Thanks


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: boostbrah on June 08, 2011, 06:29:14 AM
Can someone pm me an invite? need to purchase some "wares"


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: alythezon on June 08, 2011, 06:31:35 AM
This was so sick as just several hours ago i had access to it and was reading through the forums there then experienced problems, then it was gone and i was foolish to not create an account. Oh it was fun just to see things like this exist.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: EdgarS on June 08, 2011, 06:36:53 AM
I'm having trouble accessing Silk Road. I have Tor installed. I use the encrypted portal, but I just get a blank page with two blank input fields and a GO button. I supposed this is for a username and password. But how to get a username and password to get started? I found your portal and it's pointer to the Gawker article, but I don't find out how to sign up for Silk Road and get a username/password there either. Would appreciate your help. Edgar.

I see there has already been come discussion about the registration procedure disappearing. If an invitation is required, please consider this a request.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: thnking on June 08, 2011, 06:41:25 AM
I would really appreciate any info for logging in or invite, PM'd.  foolofyork.....???? Please.......?
Thanks in advance
-thnking


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: bumbell9 on June 08, 2011, 06:54:11 AM
I love the idea and would also love an invite if possible, thanks in advance!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: alythezon on June 08, 2011, 06:56:21 AM
I was going to ask for that same invite etc, but I figure after a few weeks, after the heat has slightly passed from everyone the service may open up again.

There will be a super huge influx of people trying to get the info...

Otherwise if anyone could get me it i would appreciate it, but its not imperitive


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: l-ement on June 08, 2011, 07:00:36 AM
Can anyone please send me an invite  :(


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 08, 2011, 07:08:42 AM
Would someone please send me an invite at taccid[dot]urquan[at]gmail.com ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ardant on June 08, 2011, 07:12:18 AM
Add me to the list of those requesting a PM for more info :)

And no, I'm not a DEA agent or affiliated with law enforcement or the media in any way, pinky swear  :D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: drackfocus on June 08, 2011, 07:24:00 AM
Well, it looks like I was a day late to the party and now I have to jump on the invite me please bandwagon :( 

Can someone spare an invite? 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: SpeaKeasY on June 08, 2011, 07:25:49 AM
its probably closed now. I'm going to bed, and then going to mess with the PS3 for a while and think about getting some GPU's.

~medicating


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: aynaun on June 08, 2011, 07:27:28 AM
I'm having trouble accessing Silk Road. I have Tor installed. I use the encrypted portal, but I just get a blank page with two blank input fields and a GO button. I supposed this is for a username and password. But how to get a username and password to get started? I found your portal and it's pointer to the Gawker article, but I don't find out how to sign up for Silk Road and get a username/password there either. Would appreciate your help. Edgar.

I see there has already been come discussion about the registration procedure disappearing. If an invitation is required, please consider this a request.

I'm in the exact same boat.  I finally generated enough BTC to spend on SR, and spent the day looking forward to going on and ordering stuff and now I can't get in.  Would appreciate any help.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lostminty on June 08, 2011, 08:31:38 AM
anyone helping get registration? I only found out about bitcoin and this site last night...first I missed the mining boast and now possibly this boat. why o why didn't I register :(


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MaCCa on June 08, 2011, 08:38:38 AM
Anyone who's already inside know if there are any aussie traders ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lostminty on June 08, 2011, 08:40:34 AM
Anyone who's already inside know if there are any aussie traders ?

there was a few selling green i think, a fair few traders out of canada and us who shipped internationally for a variety of class A's etc


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MaCCa on June 08, 2011, 08:48:12 AM
sweet, well ill sit and wait and hopefully can join the party when it opens back up :):)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: boostbrah on June 08, 2011, 08:48:20 AM
Send invite my way please


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lostminty on June 08, 2011, 08:49:32 AM
if you google silk road marketplace under the google listing it says they've closed registration but will consider things after 1st july.

"Silk Road anonymous marketplace. The Silk Road is currently closed to new visitors. This will be reviewed on July 1st and the site will possibly be reopened ..."


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 08, 2011, 08:50:24 AM
Would someone please send me an invite at taccid[dot]urquan[at]gmail.com ?

nvm lol, got an account.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: daqu on June 08, 2011, 09:02:30 AM
Would somebody be so kind to send me an invite (pb0303 (at) gmail.com)...
I'm from Belgium...
P.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 08, 2011, 09:05:37 AM
appearently, you can' t invite. If you find a way to have some warranty, i can manage your deals for a small fee.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Daedalus on June 08, 2011, 09:06:06 AM
If still possible, add me to PM list requesting more information regarding invites etc.

Can anyone who is already in check what is the situation regarding scandinavian countries? Too bad I already sold my lamps, I'm too paranoid to sell mine using "traditional" methods but this might be a nice venue for me.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: egotrip69 on June 08, 2011, 09:21:24 AM
As well i need a invite barely was getting into it and finding out if anyone can spare the time for a inviite that would be cool !!!!!  8)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Buzzy on June 08, 2011, 09:38:17 AM
I have an account but can't see any way of getting in. Is it just maintenance work or have they shut it down for a bit?  ???

Someone please swing me a PM, would be very happy!  :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: thrasher on June 08, 2011, 11:15:28 AM
Hey guys. Unfortunately it looks like I got into it too late. Could someone please PM me information regarding account/invite? Reward will be offered


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: TylerJordan on June 08, 2011, 11:42:17 AM
Is it possible that they've already been shut down and are using the site now to backtrace those who've already signed up  ???

I've heard TOR isn't 100% anonymous if they can control enough of the servers in the network  :(  

I'm very suspicious with what's happening with no message on the main page.  And no, I'm not a government agent - just a cautious type   ;D

edit:  IMO, the i2p network or freenet would be much better for the silk road site.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on June 08, 2011, 11:56:55 AM
If you control most of nodes of «put the p2p protocol here» you can always check... the idea of p2p is that nobody controls most of nodes so you can hide in the mob (same for bitcoin).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 08, 2011, 12:21:02 PM
Is it possible that they've already been shut down and are using the site now to backtrace those who've already signed up  ???

I've heard TOR isn't 100% anonymous if they can control enough of the servers in the network  :(  

I'm very suspicious with what's happening with no message on the main page.  And no, I'm not a government agent - just a cautious type   ;D

edit:  IMO, the i2p network or freenet would be much better for the silk road site.

worry not, on the main page there is a link to the forum discussion talking about the closure.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: deepdreamer on June 08, 2011, 12:53:02 PM
Maybe i can help the people that are currently not able to access SR. (TorPM: deepdreamer)




Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 08, 2011, 01:12:41 PM
Bitcoin is a great thing, and silk road is certainly shady... but I'm happy to see they are weathering the storm. Let the stoners get stoned and lazy while I make money :P


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: rusty on June 08, 2011, 01:38:33 PM
Stoners huh?

A few companies like Cisco freely admit their people utilized LSD back in the days they were planning and creating modern day networking, etc.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 08, 2011, 01:40:31 PM
Generally from my era, stoner means pot, not LSD, as acid is certainly known to enhance creativity.... not always for the better though.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: stlblufan on June 08, 2011, 02:12:32 PM
Bummer -- I was looking in to SR about a few weeks ago but couldn't install TOR as I was traveling with a company laptop.  Now it appears I'm too late?  If there are invites floating around, much appreciated ... Thanks!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 08, 2011, 02:19:22 PM
PM me and i'll create you an account.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: zer0 on June 08, 2011, 02:36:54 PM
watch the price of BTC go down now that reg's are closed lol


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: receptor on June 08, 2011, 02:39:21 PM
anyone can help me ? (create an account)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Machete234 on June 08, 2011, 02:43:39 PM
Can somebody help me too with an invite or how it works?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: discophunkster on June 08, 2011, 03:01:17 PM
I missed the train by minutes.  I was on the site and it was all there, but then I had to leave before I could register.  I came back from the softball game I had to go to, and it was gone.  Can anyone help a brother out?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 08, 2011, 03:10:52 PM
I missed the train by minutes.  I was on the site and it was all there, but then I had to leave before I could register.  I came back from the softball game I had to go to, and it was gone.  Can anyone help a brother out?

just pm me


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: discophunkster on June 08, 2011, 03:12:34 PM
I just did.  Thank you so much!  You win!   ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 08, 2011, 03:13:51 PM
I'll spell this all out for you.  The only reason that SilkRoad would institute a referral system now is to keep snooping feds out.  If anyone is giving away invites to newbies on this forum, that defeats the purpose.  Thus any such invite that you get from this forum is more likely to be a fed sting op than the real deal.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 08, 2011, 03:15:38 PM
I'll spell this all out for you.  The only reason that SilkRoad would institute a referral system now is to keep snooping feds out.  If anyone is giving away invites to newbies on this forum, that defeats the purpose.  Thus any such invite that you get from this forum is more likely to be a fed sting op than the real deal.
Any way to move these "invite" requests to another thread or something? We actually had some interesting discussion going on here.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: zer0 on June 08, 2011, 03:24:46 PM
due to media blitz there was something like 1,000 people a day joining then instantly making nub threads 'IS THIS LEGIT??' and killing the server. probably be open in a couple of days once everybody forgets

plenty of other drug sites on the tor hidden wiki like OVDB



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: rever8000 on June 08, 2011, 04:10:22 PM
Well if anyone gets a definitive answer on what the hell happened please post it, or a way to get invited as a member. I spent the day figuring out how to use the whole bitcoin system that's the only reason I hadn't registered then I logged on to register and its just the 2 boxes so if anyone finds out... please help :/

Check your PMs :)


Have we gotten an answer yet? All invites? Can anyone spare one please :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: rever8000 on June 08, 2011, 04:13:19 PM
Its funny, i found this site like a week ago and then decided to go hiking with the quarter i had before ordering more and when i get back last night the site is all down!! Ive been sober for nearly 48 hours and let me tell ya, this shit is rough! All i want is a lil nuggie you know!!javascript:void(0);


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 08, 2011, 04:17:24 PM


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: jedilost1 on June 08, 2011, 04:19:42 PM
I went through the whole process of getting bitcoin and even placed some orders.

Now i can't access site anymore..and i don't know the status.

Someone please send me an invite  :P


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: piuk on June 08, 2011, 04:24:14 PM
Selling silk road account 2 BTC - pm me


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 08, 2011, 04:25:16 PM
really? 62USD (via mtgox) XD you're smoking shoes.

i'll sell one for 0.5 BTC how bout that? :P

(actually, come to think of it.... at 62 USD you COULD smoke shoes and still have money left over.)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: piuk on June 08, 2011, 04:27:19 PM
0.49 :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 08, 2011, 04:28:03 PM
ahhh capitalism!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: iknowstuff on June 08, 2011, 04:55:45 PM
and i just figured out how to use bitcoin and was learning pgp and it closes :( i had coin in my wallet there


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: iknowstuff on June 08, 2011, 04:57:37 PM
watch the price of BTC go down now that reg's are closed lol



it went up!!! yet again. i saw it at 13 then to 19 now 31?????


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 08, 2011, 04:58:05 PM
and i just figured out how to use bitcoin and was learning pgp and it closes :( i had coin in my wallet there

It's not closed, just bracing itself against the flood. The login form still works, but I would be extra careful now with the extra attention the site has been receiving.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 08, 2011, 04:58:25 PM
selling? I can make you one for free (well if you donate to 15uTC87gjarg3kC9gYz8K29rhdqFsaMRjh wouldn't be bad)

i' ve already satified like 20 account-making requests.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: splaash on June 08, 2011, 04:59:24 PM
No chance you could make me an account?

I had one, but appear to have mislaid the password.. :(


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 08, 2011, 05:02:08 PM
but how ever will capitalism compete with free? :O I know, I'll sell a service agreement along with the invite.. the service agreement states i'll pay attention to you for a week! or something... >.>

seriously though, everyone jumps in when there is a chance to make a profit :p


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: rosskw on June 08, 2011, 05:02:19 PM
Same deal here.. any help would be appreciated. I have no problem making a small donation


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on June 08, 2011, 05:50:58 PM
Let me check, I think I opened an account there when the site began...

Quote
It's not closed, just bracing itself against the flood.

Looking at Tor, the senator's announcement was more than publicity. The whole Tor network is "flooding", never saw so many action around there...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 08, 2011, 05:56:43 PM
but is that an attack, or just thousands of people learning about drugs online and trying to access the site?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BCEmporium on June 08, 2011, 06:02:41 PM
but is that an attack, or just thousands of people learning about drugs online and trying to access the site?

Neither, I mean exactly "animation". I run one of the oldest Hidden Services (not drugs or CP related btw) and never saw so many animation there also. People is learning about Tor...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: freemyass1776 on June 08, 2011, 06:04:24 PM
Greetings all...

I'm seeing it's a bit hard for a newbie to get into SR right now but thought I would try. If anybody could help me out with an invite, it would be cool..

Thanks,
FreeMyAss1776


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FatherMcGruder on June 08, 2011, 06:07:14 PM
but is that an attack, or just thousands of people learning about drugs online and trying to access the site?
Who knows? I'm interested to see how SR will fare and what improvements that it, or its derivatives, will offer in the aftermath.


Title: Been to busy settup up mining rigs and didnt realize you had to register
Post by: spssps on June 08, 2011, 06:19:04 PM
I have been setting up mining rigs and didnt realize that you had to register!! how can i get an account now? is it really only invite? how can i get one?

Thanks

spssps


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lutzauto on June 08, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
can somebody pretty please make me a login??  i couldnt believe it when i finally got some bitcoins and then silkroad wouldnt load like usual...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: natobombs on June 08, 2011, 06:50:47 PM
Getting back to the thread topic my suggestion for you SR is continue to implement ways to cut traffic to the site and make it more difficult for the every day person to access. Even changing the Tor URL  would throw a lot of people off. Popularity will only lead to destruction

For the God's sake people stop giving out accounts to anyone who asks on this thread.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lutzauto on June 08, 2011, 06:58:24 PM
Getting back to the thread topic my suggestion for you SR is continue to implement ways to cut traffic to the site and make it more difficult for the every day person to access. Even changing the Tor URL  would throw a lot of people off. Popularity will only lead to destruction

For the God's sake people stop giving out accounts to anyone who asks on this thread.

what an asshole


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: shtks100 on June 08, 2011, 07:14:33 PM
Add me to the list of those requesting a PM for more info

shtks100 (at) wcl-ftp (dot) org


If you control most of nodes of «put the p2p protocol here» you can always check... the idea of p2p is that nobody controls most of nodes so you can hide in the mob (same for bitcoin).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: SinkBlade on June 08, 2011, 07:15:55 PM
Bummer.  I'd been browsing on Silk Road for a week, but didn't create an account since I wasn't ready to buy.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: PcChip on June 08, 2011, 07:39:53 PM
If anyone still has invites left after 2+ pages of people asking for them, I'd love one

<3


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: rmc5 on June 08, 2011, 07:46:20 PM
Yep me 2.  I was waiting for some funds and oops.  Always wanted to try the spirit molecule.   Of course I was so out of loop, I only find these things when everyone else does, like an article that brings unwanted attention, Guess I wait till I'm leaving this matrix to see it  :P    


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: RoadStress on June 08, 2011, 07:46:37 PM
I would like an invite too! Thank you.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: shampayne on June 08, 2011, 08:20:02 PM
i am a member of LE. Someone please give me an invite so I can bust all of you


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 08, 2011, 08:23:05 PM
i am a member of LE. Someone please give me an invite so I can bust all of you

I would if I could, just to see if direct access to Silk Road would even matter.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: boostbrah on June 08, 2011, 08:25:16 PM
Invite me


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: tanerlorn on June 08, 2011, 08:36:22 PM
I would like an invite.

Why is everyone freaking out though? There are still other sites like the open vendor database. Tons are listed in the hidden wiki, I believe.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: lemonginger on June 08, 2011, 08:37:51 PM
lol, wonder how many more people have heard of TSR since the govt decided to have press releases about it. What a fantastic side effect -- the more visibly you try to shut it down, the stronger it grows.

Everyone asking for invites should probably chill though. Unless for some reason you need something RIGHT NOW, I'm sure as BTC gain more traction there will be competing sites as well as different registration processes.

Personally I agree with those that feel security through openness is the best strategy. Vouching only creates an illusion of security (and a dangerous one at that). Let's start testing how resilient and private BTC transactions and marketplaces can be.......


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: godofwar on June 08, 2011, 08:38:41 PM
requesting an invite. PM me please  :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 08, 2011, 08:40:38 PM
I would like an invite.

Why is everyone freaking out though? There are still other sites like the open vendor database. Tons are listed in the hidden wiki, I believe.

Yes, well the frenzy was caused by the media focus upon Silk Road in particular, because of the use of Bitcoin and an internal escrow system, it has grown much larger much faster than the other choices.  It's not going to take long for those older sites to adopt Bitcoin to compete, and most of the vendors on Silk Road probably deal on many tor hidden sites.  Even bringing down Silk Road's servers isn't really going to matter that much.  Someone else will do it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: enterlohper on June 08, 2011, 08:48:04 PM
I hate to be a leech, but I've got to ask somebody for an invite.  TSR is probably my only shot at ever tracking down legit mescaline (I live in Middle America, the idea of a good time here is meth and Nascar), so from one psychonaut to another, I would really appreciate some help, even if it's just pointing me in the right direction to acquire an invite.

I had been lurking on Silk Road for the last week or so, but hadn't made an account as I was still waiting for my Dwolla account to accept a deposit from my bank so I could buy some BTC.

PM me, por favor!

Thanks.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: junkman on June 08, 2011, 08:53:27 PM
So some guy posted a membership for sale to silk road on 4chan /k/ , and I was like WTF?  I started looking into it, found the nearly blank login page and started looking into registration.  The invite-only system bugs me, and since I dont actually know anyone who uses silk road (as far as I know, at least.)  More research (google) led me here.

I used to live in CA and just moved 3000 miles to a rural area with little or very poor quality "products".  I'm looking for a new connection, and silk road seems to be it.

So basically - I need an invite, please. 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Sage316 on June 08, 2011, 08:57:10 PM
What can I say.  Was browsing last week.  Now I'm locked out.  Congrats on the sites success.  Hopefully someone will send me an invite...   :(


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: brigs1956 on June 08, 2011, 09:20:24 PM
looking for an invite.  stuck in the mid west not knowing anyone.  Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: anisoptera on June 08, 2011, 09:29:43 PM
lol, wonder how many more people have heard of TSR since the govt decided to have press releases about it. What a fantastic side effect -- the more visibly you try to shut it down, the stronger it grows.

I wonder when the Streisand Effect will become common knowledge.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: grape_drink on June 08, 2011, 09:32:03 PM
Guess I'll jump on the bandwagon like everyone else and ask for an invite. I'd highly appreciate it if someone would PM me an invite, I'm sure I wouldn't think twice about sending a coin or two your way ;)

Thanks guys


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 09:38:03 PM
Getting pretty crazy on this thread.  Those of you asking for access are just going to have to wait it out, as much as it pains me to say.

When and if and invite system is implemented I'll be happy to help anyone out, but there still isn't a [legit] way to give access to new members and there's no telling when the admins will make this happen.

It's my personal belief that it should be more open, but the SR admins apparently disagree.  There's just too many people wanting access and I'd be investing a lot of my time helping everyone out.  I've helped out everyone that has sent me a PM so far, but I have to stop at some point or else I'd be sitting here making dummy accounts for days.  To keep this up I'd have to charge everyone and morally I don't think that's the right thing to do.  Sorry guys.  Good luck in the future.

Cheers,
-Fool


PS: Any PMs asking for access will be ignored.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: jibjabz on June 08, 2011, 09:44:57 PM
Anyone asking for invites in this thread is exactly the sort of fool that shouldn't be over on that site. Heck I'm a lot smarter and even I won't go over there.

Hint: there is no invite system! Someone mentioned it as a hypothetical and then 50 people chimed in asking for invites.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 08, 2011, 09:49:25 PM
Anyone asking for invites in this thread is exactly the sort of fool that shouldn't be over on that site. Heck I'm a lot smarter and even I won't go over there.

Hint: there is no invite system! Someone mentioned it as a hypothetical and then 50 people chimed in asking for invites.

Yeah I mostly agree with you, but I just enjoy doing nice things for people, to an extent.

And to reiterate: There is no invite system.  SR is in "current members only" mode and to respect the wishes of the SR admins no access will be given until such a system is implemented or open access is restored.

I love you guys but it's not under my control.

-Fool


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: joe schmoe on June 08, 2011, 10:03:28 PM
can I have an invite please


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: spreadpanicwide on June 08, 2011, 10:11:28 PM
i need some help finding my way. anyone ?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mellow on June 08, 2011, 10:53:09 PM
This sucks, I was on the site yesterday just checking out some herbs and should have registered, I didn't think it would be down this quick. Hopefully the site opens up again for registration soon. :'(


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: elewton on June 08, 2011, 11:28:21 PM
Why the fuck don't they just put up a "Members Only" png?  Silk Road positively delights in frustrating potential customers with their cryptocommunication.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 08, 2011, 11:37:23 PM
from what i can pick up in their forum... they were getting far far too hard by by new people showing up, it was overloading their servers, so they block people out. they dont have a hundred thousand dollar data center i'm betting :P


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 08, 2011, 11:57:08 PM
Well, if one can count that as "good news", I'm moving forward with a SR-like project, it's called "BlackMarket" and expected to be up before the weekend.

Sorry for the SR owner(s), but when there's market demand somebody must fill that demand.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: boostbrah on June 08, 2011, 11:59:30 PM
Jib you're a donkey. Obviously there is no invite system but there is a loop-hole. So stay out of the topic because you have no knowledge on it as you said yourself you have not been to the SR.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: sever on June 09, 2011, 01:17:33 AM
TSR admin(s):

Is there any way I can recover or reset my password on TSR? I can tell you exactly when I created my account and last logged in.

Please message me on TorDir, where I have the same username. http://dppmfxaacucguzpc.onion/


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: bizantium on June 09, 2011, 01:21:49 AM
Yo if i could get an invite or w/e it'd be greatly appreciated. I realize this thread is flooded with similar posts but id be willing to throw down some cash in return.  ::)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: f3 on June 09, 2011, 01:49:32 AM
Unreal - terrible timing on my behalf.  My area will never have acid, so I was really looking forward to this.  Anyone that sends me an account (or an invite) will get a couple coins. 

(not to mention the eternal thankfulness of an internet stranger)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: V10lator on June 09, 2011, 02:38:47 AM
I have a few questions:
- Is this service international?
- Are there currently any plans to re-open the Sign-up process?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 09, 2011, 02:41:55 AM
- Is this service international?

Yes, though most sellers are from the US and UK.

Quote
- Are there currently any plans to re-open the Sign-up process?

No one knows except for SR admins.  Hopefully they will, but only time will tell.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mauifan on June 09, 2011, 03:25:44 AM
I created a SR account just to check it out what all the hubbub was about, but I would never actually buy anything from there.

So I'm happy to give my account info to someone who wants it.

I am new to bitcoins, and having a hell of a time trying to acquire these things.  Finally getting a bitcoin or two would totally make my evening!!  PM if you want to make a trade. :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: clysdexic on June 09, 2011, 04:13:59 AM
I created a SR account just to check it out what all the hubbub was about, but I would never actually buy anything from there.

So I'm happy to give my account info to someone who wants it.

I am new to bitcoins, and having a hell of a time trying to acquire these things.  Finally getting a bitcoin or two would totally make my evening!!  PM if you want to make a trade. :)

PM sent


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: TheMasonX on June 09, 2011, 04:21:51 AM
PM me for a SR account, I've got a few. Selling them at .3 BTC per


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Austrian on June 09, 2011, 04:38:10 AM
Looking for an invite to Silk Road.  Am prepared to be a seller and a buyer.  :)  Any takers?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: silkroad on June 09, 2011, 04:53:05 AM
hey gang, here's the scoop...

The site went mainstream way faster than we were hoping and we weren't prepared for the traffic.  Everyone on the site knows what a pain it is getting 502 errors all the time.  So, we are working on setting up an even more secure server that can handle all the traffic as well.  Once we get that set up, and make some more improvements here and there, we'll be opening back up, whether by invite, open registration, or whatever.

For everyone pissed at us, we just want to offer our sincere apologies.  We really didn't expect all of the media to catch on so quickly, and we should have been prepared with a semi-closed system.  We'll do our best to get out of the spotlight and hopefully the merits of Bitcoin will become the focus.

Also, if there is anyone out there locked out of their accounts with bitcoins in them, pm us here with "bitcoins in account" as the subject.  Please don't pm for any other reason.

This is fun, love you guys/gals :D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: blanko on June 09, 2011, 05:21:12 AM
I have an account that I'll never use, since I don't plan on ever buying anything from that site.  PM me with your offer if you're interested in it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: 5280life on June 09, 2011, 05:22:19 AM
hey gang, here's the scoop...

The site went mainstream way faster than we were hoping and we weren't prepared for the traffic.  Everyone on the site knows what a pain it is getting 502 errors all the time.  So, we are working on setting up an even more secure server that can handle all the traffic as well.  Once we get that set up, and make some more improvements here and there, we'll be opening back up, whether by invite, open registration, or whatever.

For everyone pissed at us, we just want to offer our sincere apologies.  We really didn't expect all of the media to catch on so quickly, and we should have been prepared with a semi-closed system.  We'll do our best to get out of the spotlight and hopefully the merits of Bitcoin will become the focus.

Also, if there is anyone out there locked out of their accounts with bitcoins in them, pm us here with "bitcoins in account" as the subject.  Please don't pm for any other reason.

This is fun, love you guys/gals :D

Thanks for the update Silkroad! Looking forward to getting access when all the changes are made :-)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 06:15:45 AM
I have 4 accounts on silk road i am not using.

PM me with BTC offer for Silk Road Access.

any non-BTC or micro offers will be ignored.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 09, 2011, 06:39:40 AM
will, if the SR admin is ok with that, do it for free.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 09, 2011, 06:51:16 AM
ok, can't make new accounts.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 07:06:26 AM
will, if the SR admin is ok with that, do it for free.

no, it is not free

no, can not make new account but I have accounts already made that I am selling.

please make an offer if you are interested


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 09, 2011, 07:27:53 AM
will, if the SR admin is ok with that, do it for free.

no, it is not free

no, can not make new account but I have accounts already made that I am selling.

please make an offer if you are interested
not interested, already in ^^


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 07:36:45 AM
3 accounts left.

PM me with your offer if you want in Silk Road.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: V10lator on June 09, 2011, 08:12:39 AM
Yes, though most sellers are from the US and UK.
Is there something like a top 5?
I would like to know if germany has many sellers/trades. ;)

@silkroad: Too bad. Hopefully you get more resources soon. :)

@all:
One more question: How does the shipping work? If the seller has my adress it's not really anonym, is it? ;)


P.S. Can't somebody stop that "I'm selling (my) account(s)"?
P.P.S. If somebody don't want to sell an account but want to give it for free: PN me. ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 10:27:03 AM
Yes there are gernam and eu sellers.

Category sales can be paginated by seller feedback, newest listed, lowest price, and highest price.

Generally shipping is very discrete.

You have to have some address to ship to. How you accomplish setting that up is up to you.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Breathe on June 09, 2011, 11:08:20 AM
So when will registration be opened? And are there any/many sellers in Aus?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: divergenta on June 09, 2011, 11:26:55 AM
I'm willing to sell my account, for the right price...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: arknor on June 09, 2011, 11:28:22 AM
ok, can't make new accounts.
you can if you visit the site using TOR


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Breathe on June 09, 2011, 11:36:59 AM
ok, can't make new accounts.
you can if you visit the site using TOR
I tried using ToR and it just took me to a login page with reCaptcha below it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: wtf on June 09, 2011, 12:04:25 PM
edit: no longer available


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 04:55:58 PM

This thread got Q real quick.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Iceman2504 on June 09, 2011, 05:23:10 PM
I first heard of silkroad when the site was down.
When I checked again today it was back, spent a couple of hours getting TOR to work with my firewall and now found out there's no obvious way to make an account.
Could anyone pm me and point me in the right direction?  ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 05:32:24 PM
FFS.  This is bitcoin.org, and this thread was intended for the discussion regarding Silkroad and its relationship with Bitcoin, not a subforum for account begging.

I'm no moderator, hell, I'm the smallest of small fries around here, but I think this is extremely bad publicity for Bitcoin, this happening here.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 09, 2011, 05:42:06 PM
FFS.  This is bitcoin.org, and this thread was intended for the discussion regarding Silkroad and its relationship with Bitcoin, not a subforum for account begging.

I'm no moderator, hell, I'm the smallest of small fries around here, but I think this is extremely bad publicity for Bitcoin, this happening here.

I love your fake humility. You did say that the public image of Bitcoin must be protected by whatever means necessary, right!?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: realjimmy on June 09, 2011, 05:44:05 PM
PM me if you need an account with a user id in the 1000s.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 05:52:11 PM
FFS.  This is bitcoin.org, and this thread was intended for the discussion regarding Silkroad and its relationship with Bitcoin, not a subforum for account begging.

I'm no moderator, hell, I'm the smallest of small fries around here, but I think this is extremely bad publicity for Bitcoin, this happening here.

I love your fake humility. You did say that the public image of Bitcoin must be protected by whatever means necessary, right!?
No, I don't remember saying that.  Can you point me to it?  If I said that, I will refute what I said here and now, because that is a very bad thing to say.  Whatever means necessary includes killing everybody's pet dog, blowing up the moon, and forcibly sterilizing every male human.  It's a hell of a clause.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 09, 2011, 06:10:25 PM
FFS.  This is bitcoin.org, and this thread was intended for the discussion regarding Silkroad and its relationship with Bitcoin, not a subforum for account begging.

I'm no moderator, hell, I'm the smallest of small fries around here, but I think this is extremely bad publicity for Bitcoin, this happening here.

I love your fake humility. You did say that the public image of Bitcoin must be protected by whatever means necessary, right!?
No, I don't remember saying that.  Can you point me to it?  If I said that, I will refute what I said here and now, because that is a very bad thing to say.  Whatever means necessary includes killing everybody's pet dog, blowing up the moon, and forcibly sterilizing every male human.  It's a hell of a clause.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12723.msg176257#msg176257


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Ah, you're quite right, Tea.  I retract that statement.  I clearly didn't think it through.  Thank you for finding that for me.  There is nothing good about that kind of extremism.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on June 09, 2011, 07:48:35 PM
If it is not obvious and you are completely brain dead, this post is for you
DON'T BUY OR TAKE ACCOUNT FROM A STRANGER!!!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: shroomer on June 09, 2011, 07:50:12 PM
Goldenmaw,

I live in an average European country. Anything except legal tender is illegal here for sellers to accept as a form of payment. There have been several attempts to create e-currencies, but all of them have been shut down by the authorities. Shops won't accept anything but legal tender because the laws forbid it. I don't know laws of other European countries, but I have never heard of a single European e-currency, so my guess is that the laws are the same in most, if not all of them.

In US, every attempt to create e-currency in the open ended by accusation of money laundering or something else, and the currency has been shut down, like e-gold. Even those who accept the alternatives to dollar risk made up criminal charges. And in US it's not even illegal to create alternative currencies (I believe). But the state won't accept the alternative, because it's a threat to its very existence. If shops start excepting Bitcoins, The Man will simply ban it and will be done with it. They can't stop Bitcoin technically, but they can do it legally, and they will if necessary.

Face it, Bitcoin has almost zero chance to become part of "white economy". Black market is its only chance. For Bitcoin to succeed, it has to be backed by a real economy, because right now it's mostly a speculative game, and once we run out of new buyers and Bitcoin flatlines, everybody will start cashing out the profits and Bitcoin will fall like a penny stock. As they say, what goes up by an escalator will come down by an elevator.

In developed countries black economy is about 20% of the whole market. It's much bigger in developing countries. World economy is about 60 trillion dollars (not counting the financial derivatives, which are much bigger), which makes black market at least 12 trillion. Now, mind you, most of it is not dealing with illegal stuff like drugs and guns and so on. It's merely tax evasion, e.g. selling things without accounting. I have been part of it since 2005, when I decided to stop paying unreasonable about 70% taxes, state spying on me, restricting my freedoms, increasing budget deficits and building socialism. I still pay 20% VAT (I spend most of the money I make) and health insurance, which I do consider to be a fair tax for what I get, but that's all. My only protection are still reasonable bank privacy laws, which prevent the tax man from mining banking data for people with income but no tax payments. Lots of people do that, under their real names, issuing fake or no invoices, and getting paid to their bank accounts.

As the states are tightening their surveillance and taxing the hell out of us, Bitcoin will become more attractive to people like me. If only 10% of black market moves to Bitcoin, we can have 1 trillion dollar economy, enough to make Bitcoin stable currency and a good store of value, too.

Now, the Silk Road.

Drug dealing can be very dirty business, witness the mexican drug cartel. Silk Road is different, many small individual sellers catering directly to their clients. It makes drug dealing into what it should be, a victimless consensual "crime". I have absolutely no problem with that, given, as I said, that Bitcoin's chances on official market are almost nil. I have even put on offer my small stash of psychedelic mushrooms and made two sales. If I manage to sell them all, I will turn that into regular business and start growing some pot, too.

What you are missing is that Bitcoin won't be attacked because of Silk Road. It will be attacked because of being viable and better alternative to fiat legal tender. Silk Road will serve only as an excuse for attacking Bitcoin. Shut down the Silk Road, and they will come with another excuse, like money laundering (which Bitcoin can do very well and easily).

Silk Road is currently probably the single largest Bitcoin market. It's little more black then the rest of Bitcoin's black market, but the difference is not really qualitative.

So, stop fighting it and embrace it instead. Besides, with unregulated currency, there's really nothing you can do about Silk Road except endlessly complain about it on the forum. It may make you feel better about yourself, but maybe there are bigger causes than that  ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 07:56:56 PM
Shroomer,

Interesting and well articulated argument.  It could very well happen like that - it all depends on whether or not our government decides embracing Bitcoin will prove a technological and financial advantage over other countries.  If you search the forums, you'll notice that a lot the high profile Bitcoin developers are working with our government right now to determine if there is a potential solution.  Gavin was invited to a confidential technological summit with the CIA.  God knows how that went/is going.  I think the possibility of a white market solution is more likely than you think, but only with both parties working to find compromise.  If compromise is reached, Bitcoins will quickly proliferate as a form of accepted payment - if it isn't, it will spiral into black market territory exclusively, as you said.  I'm not embracing a damned thing until I know what sides the dice land.  And I will complain about the damage Silkroad does to Bitcoin's chance of widespread acceptance for as long as Bitcoin is the quasi-official Silkroad forum.

As for bigger causes...  What would those be, exactly?

Edit:  I should also like to point out that the ability of the united states government to track Bitcoin mining and transactions remains an unknown factor at this point.  In my country, we sure do love the sucker-punch.  If they've got a system for monitoring Bitcoin activity - and the cooperation of the dev team almost guarantees this will come about eventually, if it hasn't already - it'll be a disaster on the black market scale as well.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: dancebabe1224 on June 09, 2011, 08:13:45 PM
if anyone would like to give me an invite it would be greatly appreciated(: i know there's like a million other people asking for them lol but it would mean sooo much if you helped me out :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: poppoob on June 09, 2011, 08:19:26 PM
I really need an account on here as well I just read about it and am very interested!!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 08:20:55 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/4945136509_57188acfe1_o.jpg


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: shroomer on June 09, 2011, 08:44:36 PM
Goldenmaw,

my main profession is not drug dealing,  I am an investor and a trader. All of my trading is based on fundamentals and I spend several hours every day, sometimes even during weekends, analyzing the markets and economical situation. I don't claim that I know it all, but given that I am consistently making money, I would say that I understand at least something about markets and economy.

US or any other western government can not accept deflationary currency as a legal alternative to fiat paper. It would be the same as commiting suicide. They are going to commit it anyway, but using the inflationary way, because unlike the deflation, (hyper)inflation does not kill the government and the TBTF banks (because they sit right at the business end of the printing press and get the money before the market prices in the extra zeros). Deflation today = Great Depression on steroids and US are scared to death by possibility of Second Great Depression. Great Depression is one of the most remembered events in US history, perhaps even more than WWII. It's not going to happen, and I don't need a crystal ball to predict this. If Bitcoin was legally accepted, everybody would move their inflating and increasingly risky paper assets into quickly appreciating Bitcoins, stock market would crash, real estate market too, banks would crash because they would run out of liquidity, FED would have to print like crazy to "save" the dollar, only to cause further Bitcoin appreciation, black market would flourish etc. Not going to happen. Remember that dollar is still world reserve currency and every weakening of it lowers chances of US government to get more debt and maintain it's already low credibility. No debt or loss of confidence = game over. They won't toy with such idea as accepting Bitcoin. If CIA is interested in Bitcoin, it's not because of possibility of it's acceptance by US Treasury of FED. Otherwise Gavin would be talking to Treasury or The Bernank.

Everybody, not just CIA, can monitor all Bitcoin activity. It's all logged and publicaly available. However, as I said, laundering Bitcoins is easy, using mixes. You only have to mix the money with other people's Bitcoins and put many transaction between you and the drug dealing, and you get plausible deniability, or even complete anonymity. Soon most Bitcoins will be "tainted" by drug deals and other black market operations, just like most dollar bills are tainted by cocain. At that point it's game over for law enforcement. This is not really an issue, unless the dealer is completely stupid and withdraws the Bitcoins from Silk Road directly to his bank accouts, in which case he deserves to be busted.

Bigger causes? Well, things are going to get very ugly soon as US and European economies will eventually crash (I don't know when, but certainly during this decade), so perhaps stop fighting for a good image of Bitcoin, because that's not going to happen. Maybe gold will be able to maintain good image. Freedom from state opression and crappy fiat money that are destroing our wealth through inflation and debt sounds like a worthy cause to me. It's not going to be pretty. US Founding Fathers have been killing for it. We don't have to do even that, all we have to do is to stop kidding ourselves. Sorry for sounding bit melodramatic here, but that's just what the situation is.

Also, people, listen to dunk, there really are no invites, the SR will reopen eventually once they move to a bigger server that can handle the load. Just wait for it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 09:18:03 PM
Damn.  You put forth a very compelling argument against Bitcoin being embraced, Shroomer.

And yet, there's a weird mirror effect here, isn't there?  The value of the Bitcoin is only how much USD you can get for it.  This is temporarily exacerbated by the fact that in a purely speculative stage, having little in the way of tradeability.  But could Bitcoin survive as a commodity, rather than a currency, like gold, other precious things?  Could the US dollar be backed by the Bitcoin?

I would appreciate your thoughts on these questions.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: redblack on June 09, 2011, 09:27:34 PM
does this invite system even exist or are you just wishing for it?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: shroomer on June 09, 2011, 09:42:50 PM
In principle, yes, but central banks own gold, and they own significant part of the supply, enough to control it's purchasing power during 80's and 90's. So if there ever will be return to commodity backed currencies, it would be gold, not Bitcoin, because of universal trust in gold, and also because of better control over it by states. This would also kill Bitcoin's chance to join official economy, because gold would be a lot more trusted and stable.

Bitcoin can in principle survive as a "commodity", specifically as a store of value (because the supply can not be inflated), but in the presence of state backed alternatives and much more trusted gold, in unstable times people will buy gold (as they are doing now), and in stable times they will use state backed paper fiat, as they did before 2008, and even more so before 2001, even though they had a possibility to store their savings in gold instead of in government debt or cash. So even though such use of Bitcoin is possible in principle, I don't think it's realistic to expect it will happen except on small scale, and then it can be ruined by a sellout. That's why I think that backing Bitcoin with black economy is it's best chance for adoption and survival. After all, it was kind of designed for such purpose, wasn't it?

I mean, we can sip a lot of power (but by no means all of it) from governments and central banks by creating almost bullet proof paralel economy, which already exists, but uses less safe (can hyperinflate at any time) paper cash and official banks (leaves trails). It won't create Utopia, but it would create a nice alternative for more freedom spirited people. There was always such possibility to "John Galt yourself from the system", but Bitcoin can make it a lot more convenient and safe.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 09:51:01 PM
To the naysayers,

Due to all the hype, rampant speculation, media attention, need of anonymity, and yes even fear and paranoia, some of us at Silk Road saw the closing of registrations coming days before it ocurred.

Given that, survival and preparedness-minded folk indeed do create back-up contingency plans for any and all possible outcomes for whatever we are involved in, so of course some have created alternate identities over at Silk Road.

Now that access is limited, we would like to help others get in using those.

That very access now has a value asssociated to it, like it or not, because it is now a closed club.

I am sorry if you disagree with that aspect, but it's just the way it is.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: skitzilla on June 09, 2011, 09:53:23 PM
ive been looking for the site to purchase but cant find ppl help me plz need something cheap


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 09, 2011, 09:57:14 PM
In principle, yes, but central banks own gold, and they own significant part of the supply, enough to control it's purchasing power during 80's and 90's. So if there ever will be return to commodity backed currencies, it would be gold, not Bitcoin, because of universal trust in gold, and also because of better control over it by states. This would also kill Bitcoin's chance to join official economy, because gold would be a lot more trusted and stable.

Bitcoin can in principle survive as a "commodity", specifically as a store of value (because the supply can not be inflated), but in the presence of state backed alternatives and much more trusted gold, in unstable times people will buy gold (as they are doing now), and in stable times they will use state backed paper fiat, as they did before 2008, and even more so before 2001, even though they had a possibility to store their savings in gold instead of in government debt or cash. So even though such use of Bitcoin is possible in principle, I don't think it's realistic to expect it will happen except on small scale, and then it can be ruined by a sellout. That's why I think that backing Bitcoin with black economy is it's best chance for adoption and survival. After all, it was kind of designed for such purpose, wasn't it?

I mean, we can sip a lot of power (but by no means all of it) from governments and central banks by creating almost bullet proof paralel economy, which already exists, but uses less safe (can hyperinflate at any time) paper cash and official banks (leaves trails). It won't create Utopia, but it would create a nice alternative for more freedom spirited people. There was always such possibility to "John Galt yourself from the system", but Bitcoin can make it a lot more convenient and safe.

Interesting.  I wonder if it's already too late the black economy?  But I've already spoke on that.  Thanks for your insight!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 10:02:43 PM
Silk Road is NOT an illegal drug market.

Silk Road is an anonymous market.

There are hundreds of legal items up for sale on Silk Road.

Much like anything else, Silk Road can be used for both legal and illegal purposes, like peer to peer file sharing, cryptography, proxies, the INTERNET, the telephone, fax machines, gun shows, guns, knives, perscription drugs, and my pencil (I can write a letter or stab you in the eye with it) ... and to many others to mention.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 09, 2011, 10:15:18 PM
In principle, yes, but central banks own gold, and they own significant part of the supply, enough to control it's purchasing power during 80's and 90's. So if there ever will be return to commodity backed currencies, it would be gold, not Bitcoin, because of universal trust in gold, and also because of better control over it by states. This would also kill Bitcoin's chance to join official economy, because gold would be a lot more trusted and stable.


This is probably true, but likely irrelevent since the central banks cannot return to a gold standard and maintain.  Even if they did, I'd consider this entire experiment a success on that note alone.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 09, 2011, 10:20:59 PM
You put forth a very compelling argument against Bitcoin being embraced, Shroomer.

Bitcoin is attractive to individuals for the same reason that it is unattractive to banks and governments. People just aren't aware that they're constantly getting fucked by the current system yet.

edit... If you think I'm full of shit, I challenge you to listen to this talk by G. Edward Griffin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k).


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: unnamed0201 on June 09, 2011, 10:27:45 PM
hey i was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction.. how do i create an account through silkroad? i saw this thread (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14153.0) but didnt help much..

is registration closed? if so is there anyway i can register?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: dr00155 on June 09, 2011, 10:39:34 PM
How long will it take before it will reopen?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: redblack on June 09, 2011, 10:41:05 PM
due the attention that this great service is getting from the media, congers, and law enforcement i think you have to rule out ever opening it again  up for new users.   it just not safe anymore.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Parallax on June 09, 2011, 10:46:06 PM
Hi there everybody... I had an account on silk road before it closed but I can't access it anymore. Just want to know if its been deleted or not (I didn't have any bitcoins on it yet but still  :-[) IF I can't get my account back I'd still like to keep up with some members via SILC or IRC. If someone could pm me with help on connecting to the SILCroad chat please do so  ;).

another shameless color post to stand out from spam


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 10:52:51 PM
Hi there everybody... I had an account on silk road before it closed but I can't access it anymore. Just want to know if its been deleted or not (I didn't have any bitcoins on it yet but still  :-[) IF I can't get my account back I'd still like to keep up with some members via SILC or IRC. If someone could pm me with help on connecting to the SILCroad chat please do so  ;).

another shameless color post to stand out from spam

Unless you did something to get banned, you can access it the same way you always did.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Parallax on June 09, 2011, 11:00:41 PM
Well that doesn't seem to be the case :(     I never did anything bannable.. just browsed a bit and messaged a few sellers. When I try to log in I get a blank page and a captcha that just refreshes the page when I type in my account info...


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 09, 2011, 11:29:10 PM
I was making alternate accounts up until the day they closed registration, and they all work.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: realjimmy on June 09, 2011, 11:30:57 PM
I still have an account to get rid of if anyone's interested.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: WhiteNinja on June 09, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
I first heard of silkroad when the site was down.
When I checked again today it was back, spent a couple of hours getting TOR to work with my firewall and now found out there's no obvious way to make an account.
Could anyone pm me and point me in the right direction?  ;)

Iceman, I am in the same boat you are.  If you figure it out, please let me know as I need to figure out how/where to register.   I'm all set with my Tor connection.

thx

-WN


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 09, 2011, 11:52:06 PM
Well that doesn't seem to be the case :(     I never did anything bannable.. just browsed a bit and messaged a few sellers. When I try to log in I get a blank page and a captcha that just refreshes the page when I type in my account info...

Try messing around with cookie settings in your TOR browser.  Sounds like cookies being denied.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: WhiteNinja on June 09, 2011, 11:52:36 PM
OK - from the comments I've read I gather Silk Road is closed for new members...  Nice, that is great.   I realize that the attention it is getting from the media, etc isn't helpful, but what the hell did they think was going to happen?   If you tell a secret to 2 people, chances are 1 of them will spread the word.  Nothing is secret on the internet.   Also, if it is all really so anonymous, then what is the problem with letting new users sign up?

Maybe the reason new accounts aren't available has to do with something else entirely, I would just like to get in on this.  I got Tor all set up and researched how this all works and now I can't even get in.  If anyone can help me out, I would appreciate it.  I know some people are selling accounts, but it seems like a dick thing to turn around and sell them now - if Silk Road doesn't want new members then someone buying an existing account is still a "new" member and that would defeat the entire reason for blocking new members.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: z00p on June 09, 2011, 11:56:28 PM
i also missed the boat, damn it! i know im just another voice in the choir at this point but if anyone would be kind enough to send me an invite i would be most appreciative. thanks all :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Parallax on June 09, 2011, 11:57:19 PM
Well that doesn't seem to be the case :(     I never did anything bannable.. just browsed a bit and messaged a few sellers. When I try to log in I get a blank page and a captcha that just refreshes the page when I type in my account info...

Try messing around with cookie settings in your TOR browser.  Sounds like cookies being denied.

Yay! I'm on. Thanx bro, I'd totally add you as a friend on SR if I could. ;D    Now to find some bitcoin.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: DasBlunt on June 10, 2011, 12:05:09 AM
I would love to be invited to silk road.

I have figured out how to get bitcoins....

I am on TGR with this handle if anyone wants references....


please?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 10, 2011, 12:10:18 AM
I know some people are selling accounts, but it seems like a dick thing to turn around and sell them now
Your moral indignation and outright disparagement and alienation of those with surpus accounts certainly wont help you get an account when you have no ability to register one.

Entrepreneurs have an uncanny ability to recognise a financial opportunity when one presents itself.


I would love to be invited to silk road.
there is no invitation process.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: CharlieStross88 on June 10, 2011, 12:15:36 AM
Besides the irritation it is causing some people, I have to state the obvious about buying Silk Road accounts:

how can you verify that the account is valid before you get it?

I am perfectly willing to pay bitcoin for a valid account, but I cannot see how to keep from being ripped off.

Not only that, but there will probably be a dozen similiar sites 2 months from now.

Of course, some of them will be LE sting operations.  ;D



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: DasBlunt on June 10, 2011, 12:17:07 AM



I would love to be invited to silk road.
there is no invitation process.

I guess I cannot figure it out yet then?....PM me?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BotherMeNot on June 10, 2011, 12:18:42 AM
If anyone is feeling generous and has a spare account that they are willing to gift to me, please PM me to make my day.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: WhiteNinja on June 10, 2011, 12:23:01 AM
I know some people are selling accounts, but it seems like a dick thing to turn around and sell them now
Your moral indignation and outright disparagement and alienation of those with surpus accounts certainly wont help you get an account when you have no ability to register one.

Entrepreneurs have an uncanny ability to recognise a financial opportunity when one presents itself.

I understand all that.  But if I do decide to buy an account, I'm sure the people with the extra accounts would still want to take my money.  When it comes down to it, I doubt they would give a crap what I said about selling them.   It just makes no sense for Silk Road to not allow new accounts if people are just selling them.  If the wrong people want to get access to the site, they still can but now have to pay a small fee.

Ultimately, like I said, if the site and the process is as secure as it is supposed to be, why stop people from creating new accounts?  What is the threat?

I'm pretty new to all this so maybe my idea as to why new accounts can't be created is totally off.   I PM'd the Silk Road OP (rep?) to see whats up.

On a side note, I never understood why people go out of their way to post a comment bashing someone else's comment and not contribute anything to further the purpose of the actual thread... Do you really not have anything better to do than to antagonize someone you don't know and never will?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: DasBlunt on June 10, 2011, 12:24:52 AM
If anyone is feeling generous and has a spare account that they are willing to gift to me, please PM me to make my day.

me too.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 10, 2011, 12:25:34 AM
If anyone is feeling generous and has a spare account that they are willing to gift to me, please PM me to make my day.

me too.

Nothing worthwhile ever comes easy.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: The Koolio on June 10, 2011, 12:28:27 AM
i got tor, i need an account now... anybody?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BotherMeNot on June 10, 2011, 12:43:44 AM
Nothing worthwhile ever comes easy.

I hear that a lot, but then I figure life came pretty easy to each one of us who is alive.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 10, 2011, 01:33:36 AM
I don't think SR really cares whether some one sells new accounts or not... as long as the site's traffic is low enough not to crash the server.

as has been stated before in here, the site registration is down until he can upgrade the server its on.

-edit- site registration, not the site itself :p


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Vekz on June 10, 2011, 02:04:29 AM
hey anybody got an extra account i got my tor working and everything today just need an account to get started, help a brotha out plz PM me


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: WhiteNinja on June 10, 2011, 02:28:01 AM
I don't think SR really cares whether some one sells new accounts or not... as long as the site's traffic is low enough not to crash the server.

as has been stated before in here, the site is down until he can upgrade the server its on.


Ahhhh  server load probs.  That makes sense.   Cool, I'll wait it out I guess.  I don't mind donating to sites for this reason, but I can't give money until I actually get to use the site ;)

Nesetalis, thanks for the info!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 10, 2011, 03:02:06 AM
More Silk Road accounts available.

PM me with your BTC offer.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BotherMeNot on June 10, 2011, 03:09:34 AM
Rumor has it that Silk Road will be up by the end of the week as they move their servers.   That is why even registered users are experiencing problems logging in.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: foolofyork on June 10, 2011, 03:12:25 AM
Rumor has it that Silk Road will be up by the end of the week as they move their servers.   That is why even registered users are experiencing problems logging in.

Yeah SR has been sluggish at best lately.  Hopefully the server migration or upgrades are swift.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: cremefrieche on June 10, 2011, 03:36:22 AM
Actually I heard it a lot differently. I heard that because of all the negative publicity, registrations were going to be closed indefinitely. I have been in SR for a long time and tahts pretty much the summation of the forum chatter.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 10, 2011, 03:37:53 AM
Actually I heard it a lot differently. I heard that because of all the negative publicity, registrations were going to be closed indefinitely. I have been in SR for a long time and tahts pretty much the summation of the forum chatter.

So the forum chatterers know more than the guy who's running SR?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: cremefrieche on June 10, 2011, 03:41:29 AM
Actually I heard it a lot differently. I heard that because of all the negative publicity, registrations were going to be closed indefinitely. I have been in SR for a long time and tahts pretty much the summation of the forum chatter.

So the forum chatterers know more than the guy who's running SR?

I have not seen the guy who is running SR state when he would be opening up registrations.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: error on June 10, 2011, 03:42:35 AM
Actually I heard it a lot differently. I heard that because of all the negative publicity, registrations were going to be closed indefinitely. I have been in SR for a long time and tahts pretty much the summation of the forum chatter.

So the forum chatterers know more than the guy who's running SR?

I have not seen the guy who is running SR state when he would be opening up registrations.

That's because it's buried a few pages back among all the idiots asking for nonexistent invites.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Blindside on June 10, 2011, 04:39:58 AM
I have five spare SR accounts that I thought I would burn each time I made a transaction (yes I'm that paranoid).   PM me if you want to trade some BitCoin for em'.

Also note that for those who do get these accounts, don't expect anything more than a craigslist where you can use Bitcoins.  The site's interface is poorly designed and very basic.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: boostbrah on June 10, 2011, 06:05:17 AM
Anyone know if Steroids or testosterone is being sold on the market?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 10, 2011, 09:26:36 AM
ONE Silk Road Account left.

PM me reasonable offer.

thanks!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: fpsfoogawzee on June 10, 2011, 09:46:49 AM
Hello all.
http://bayimg.com/kAiNnaaDI
I will PM you the pass.
Send funds here 1KrTRwBBjXGeP8r5UXC2kpVgTVN6BMEJo5
Username: 5415212
Password: XXXXXXXX

3 BTC


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mewantsbitcoins on June 10, 2011, 11:45:04 AM
oh, there's gonna be so many arrests..


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Goldenmaw on June 10, 2011, 12:27:03 PM
I hope they're accessing this site through TOR as well. lol


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 10, 2011, 02:28:49 PM
For those wanting to test an alternative:
http://5onwnspjvuk7cwvk.onion/

This site is yet in beta stage, I'll create its own topic as soon as it's fully operational.

BTW Golden: I just access anywhere through tor  ;)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: HostFat on June 10, 2011, 02:51:10 PM
For those wanting to test an alternative:
http://5onwnspjvuk7cwvk.onion/
Good luck :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Enemy of the State on June 10, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
You put forth a very compelling argument against Bitcoin being embraced, Shroomer.

Bitcoin is attractive to individuals for the same reason that it is unattractive to banks and governments. People just aren't aware that they're constantly getting fucked by the current system yet.

edit... If you think I'm full of shit, I challenge you to listen to this talk by G. Edward Griffin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k).

I agree there BitterTea. Although I went to the trouble of setting up Tor hoping to get a look at the site I see it as nothing more than a interesting idea. Now being one of those people that is aware of how "they're constantly getting fucked" I see the same behavior here as the central banking figures. Limit access, charge for said access, profit. Fuck that. I'll stick to my locals and piss on such websites.

Turn the desire to access the site into the same thing that people were looking to avoid. Fuck all that shit.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BitterTea on June 10, 2011, 03:14:40 PM
I agree there BitterTea. Although I went to the trouble of setting up Tor hoping to get a look at the site I see it as nothing more than a interesting idea. Now being one of those people that is aware of how "they're constantly getting fucked" I see the same behavior here as the central banking figures. Limit access, charge for said access, profit. Fuck that. I'll stick to my locals and piss on such websites.

Turn the desire to access the site into the same thing that people were looking to avoid. Fuck all that shit.

SilkRoad limited access and sign ups due to excessive amounts of traffic. They are working to open the site back up to everyone. The only people charging for access are those who have an excess of registered accounts or scammers. Chill out broseph.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: uhhlysaa on June 10, 2011, 03:14:53 PM
I just accessed Silk Road for the first time but have no way to create a user name since the registration is now closed. I am interested in obtaining a u/n and p/w. If there is anyone that has pretty much used their account as much as they were going to and dont need it anymore, I would really love if they could send me the user name and password info. We are all friends here, why not help each other out? PM me please!  :D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: w0mbat on June 10, 2011, 05:12:29 PM
For those wanting to test an alternative:
http://5onwnspjvuk7cwvk.onion/

This site is yet in beta stage, I'll create its own topic as soon as it's fully operational.

BTW Golden: I just access anywhere through tor  ;)

well, i just had a look and only one listing. u have to advertise it more... oh crap!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 10, 2011, 05:29:41 PM
For those wanting to test an alternative:
http://5onwnspjvuk7cwvk.onion/

This site is yet in beta stage, I'll create its own topic as soon as it's fully operational.

BTW Golden: I just access anywhere through tor  ;)

well, i just had a look and only one listing. u have to advertise it more... oh crap!

The site opened 2 hours ago and you were already expecting to find it full with listings?  ;D  SR is months old already.
Well... so far the system looks good, already have a lot of registrations and seams to be smooth enough.
Give it some time for sellers to start settle their stalls there.  :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 10, 2011, 05:38:14 PM
you do realize, since you posted it here, the fed will know about it already? Hope you arnt in the US XD


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: bittersweet on June 10, 2011, 05:42:46 PM
you do realize, since you posted it here, the fed will know about it already? Hope you arnt in the US XD

I think if he knows how to setup a hidden service in TOR, he knows how to hide his identity...

I'll sell my account for 30BTC.
Are you dunk or drunk? :D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 10, 2011, 05:56:55 PM
-sighs- Tor isnt a magic bullet.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 10, 2011, 06:07:36 PM
No shit! You think I come to this forum how? Using my home line by surface internet?

As for the feds to know it... well, the only way for them to not know it was if nobody knows also... but then what would be the use?!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: realjimmy on June 10, 2011, 07:17:43 PM
I still have 1 account. Looking to get a couple coins for it. PM me if interested.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: greencamel on June 10, 2011, 07:29:08 PM
I also have a couple logins I never used (took me a while to settle on a username).  Feel free to make an offer: greencamel@lavabit.com


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: CharlieContent on June 10, 2011, 09:04:31 PM
I also have a few spare accounts and I'm happy to receive offers.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Otoh on June 10, 2011, 09:05:27 PM
Hiya

Silkroad on lockdown ~ New members not being accepted atm

Were you too late for the party, had plans to dive in to Silkroad this weekend, well whether you're LE wishing to have a sniff around, a Journo looking for a scoop, a sightseer or a potential punter then I have just 1 clean working login for you, never been funded, no PMs, no history at all

Pics here:
http://is.gd/kCjhME
http://is.gd/JFRD4A

PM me or reply here with any offers - I'm on Europe time & will get back to you ASAP between noon & 3am-ish
then shoot 3 BTC to the BTC address in my sig & the login ID & Password are yours, log in, change the PW & Voila!

First come, first served ;)
You too could be getting a special delivery in the morning


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: w0mbat on June 10, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
haha. you are cute. $70 for an account when there are 100.000 of them around in the web. ill sell u a pic of me laughing for 5 BTC, ok?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Otoh on June 10, 2011, 09:38:16 PM
haha. you are cute. $70 for an account when there are 100.000 of them around in the web. ill sell u a pic of me laughing for 5 BTC, ok?

Targeting buyers who are on expenses funded forays & that just want an efficient fast account handover - LEOs & Journos, Etc +
Those who want in now regardless, for whatever reason...



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 10, 2011, 10:03:12 PM
More Silk Road Accounts for sale.

2 BTC is the price.

PM me to purchase.

Some of us Silk Road regulars saw the closing registrations coming and prepared accordingly.

I have confirmed positive feedback for some of these purchases on the BitCoinForum > Marketplace > List of honest traders (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=484.msg195321#msg195321) if anyone questions the validity. Of course not everyone on this forum who purchased left feedback for anonymity reasons.

I will be online all everning checking the PM's periodically.

Thank you for your interest.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: neuromancer on June 10, 2011, 10:23:24 PM
Lol the people with extra accounts are scam sellers who boost their seller's rating by buying their own stuff


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 10, 2011, 10:36:10 PM
Lol the people with extra accounts are scam sellers who boost their seller's rating by buying their own stuff

I think we all know that, yes, there a few scammers around, but the lions share of us are are good honest business persons only trying to conduct in fair trade.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Otoh on June 10, 2011, 10:55:24 PM
Venus in Gemini Square Neptune in Pisces today ~ There's a lot of it about  :-\


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: onesalt on June 10, 2011, 11:00:47 PM
Silkroad is going to be the downfall of bitcoin. It attracts too much attention to it.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: WhiteNinja on June 10, 2011, 11:09:46 PM
Instead of buying an account, why not just wait another week or so to see if SR gets their new servers and allows new members to sign up?   

If SR permanently blocks new members it won't take long for the community to dwindle to nothing.  Sellers won't be too happy with the idea that their customer base cannot grow.

And yes, I know the "negative" publicity doesn't help, but there never was anyway to avoid it.   There is no way to prevent LE from snooping around if they really want to.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: nowhereroad on June 10, 2011, 11:11:59 PM
hello friends -

i actually did set up my account before the lockout, but apparently i've forgotten my log on information. or maybe they're blocking access for just recently created accounts? is there any way to retrieve the information?

edit: the whole site down now until sometime this weekend apparently? had any one been able to log on successfully in the last hour before they took it down?

thanks for your help


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 10, 2011, 11:30:50 PM
had any one been able to log on successfully in the last hour before they took it down?

Yes i been logged in for a few hours and just refreshed and its offline for maintenance.

Anyone buying accounts needs to know this before buying the account, because you will not be able to confirm login credentials until its back up in a day or 2.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: nowhereroad on June 10, 2011, 11:37:24 PM
then apparently i did forget my information. is there any way to retrieve that you know of? maybe a customer service call center in mumbai or...?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 10, 2011, 11:42:43 PM
then apparently i did forget my information. is there any way to retrieve that you know of? maybe a customer service call center in mumbai or...?

I guess a hotline like 555-SMACK would be nice.  ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Otoh on June 11, 2011, 12:00:08 AM
There used to be a mega $ motor that was based around mayfair, london, england with personalised registration plates: HER 01N
I always did wonder about the story behind that plate


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Breathe on June 11, 2011, 03:01:17 AM
Can anyone tell me if there are sellers on SR based in australia?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Doobie on June 11, 2011, 04:06:37 AM
 >:(  I've downloaded Tor but need some assistance gaining access to the silk road web site.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.  Dedicated consumer.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Dropkickdragout on June 11, 2011, 04:19:52 AM
SR is currently down


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2011, 04:29:05 AM
Hopefully not forever.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: computerparts on June 11, 2011, 07:32:35 AM
Hopefully not forever.

Forget it guys. They are in deep trouble with the Fedz. It's no thanks to these morons that congress has an excuse to go after bitcoin now.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 11, 2011, 10:08:34 AM
Hopefully not forever.

Forget it guys. They are in deep trouble with the Fedz. It's no thanks to these morons that congress has an excuse to go after bitcoin now.

Then why dont they go after the debt-based, privately-financed federal reserve notes that are systematically stripping the wealth of every citizen?? After all it has facilitated much more (and worse) crime and corruption for a much longer period of time.

Oh wait. Then they would not have instant access to unlimited amounts of money they do not have the political will to tax us directly for, plus they would lose their control stranglehold and free us from our enslavement. Wont even get into the hidden tax called inflation it provides.

On a Tor hidden service, I doubt the feds can even find them.

Tor was developed jointly by the US Naval Laboratory and the Free Haven Project over at M.I.T. for a reason (http://idtrail.org/files/Dingledine%20-%20Tor.pdf) ... and it wasnt to hide a couple people trying to light up.

Silk Road will be back soon. They are probably switching to a more robust server.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: CharlieContent on June 11, 2011, 10:15:22 AM
Journalists investigating Silk Road get in touch. I have a great scoop for you. It might not make your career but it will certainly be a VERY good day at the office.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: benzz on June 11, 2011, 11:40:12 AM
Since silkroad like services play a large part in the bitcoin exchange rate, and as a miner it is in my interest to keep the exchange rate high, here is an alternative to silkroad:
 
http://5onwnspjvuk7cwvk.onion

When silkroad was running openly it was better than this, but this one of the only sites avaiable for regestration, and i think it will do atleast until silkroad is reopened 


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 11, 2011, 11:46:50 AM
When silkroad was running openly it was better than this, but this one of the only sites avaiable for regestration, and i think it will do atleast until silkroad is reopened 

You guys really don't make it easy... I started to code that site Wednesday night, you expect what? To be as good as SR in 2 days?!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 11, 2011, 11:50:25 AM
a) don't advertise your site until it is up and running.
b) talk to dealers first, let them setup shop before advertising.
c) advertise discretely, from within SR, or other places. Allow it to take up its followers grassroots.
the problem with advertising publicly, is that no one can trust a sale on your site, all of the few on there, are probably fed.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: JackSparrow on June 11, 2011, 11:57:23 AM
[..]but this one of the only sites avaiable for regestration[..]
There is also the open vendor database.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on June 11, 2011, 12:20:35 PM
I would really like people to don't spam this thread; i am sure silkroad will come back in a few days and if it doesn't, we'll find a solution.
also, would you mind to not advertise any sites (alternatives, ovdb, etc) until it is confirmed that silkroad faded fully away? because what was the problem for silkroad where all the kids and such that came from gawker.com
now, if you write all the alternatives and such over here, they will just come over there as well.
nothing against publicity, but please keep it on a reasonable level so that really interested people only come.
greets. m


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: w0mbat on June 11, 2011, 12:32:45 PM
all of the few on there, are probably fed.

where are u living? most ppl here think US = whole world. but thats not true.

1. the police is not allowed to offer drugs and the bust the buyers. that is illegal.
2. the feds dont care about those small sites.
3. thats what a trust system is for.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 11, 2011, 12:58:16 PM
i suppose you've never heard of a sting operation. Frequently US police and federal officials act as buyers or sellers to catch people.

So... explain again?

Also, since its only the US senators who are screaming about it, of course I'm talking about it from a US perspective. If he is outside of the US none of this really applies. However he never did answer if he was within or without, and the Fed wouldn't hesitate to bust a few buyers, just to choke out a site outside of their jurisdiction.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: w0mbat on June 11, 2011, 01:04:04 PM
well, good thing us the us feds/police dont have any jurisdiction in my country.

and theres a huge difference between action as a seller & a buyer.
its legal for the police to act a as buyer, but not as a seller.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 11, 2011, 01:06:54 PM
indeed there is a huge difference, however in the US, the drug war has taken such a toll on freedoms that there are almost nothing they cannot do.

In one or two states they are even allowed to enter private property without a warrant if they suspect there are drugs there (such as a scent of pot). Though this law is being challenged, it is currently on the books.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 11, 2011, 02:33:09 PM
Still, even if they can act as sellers that doesn't add much for feds, unless they want to open the FBI's Smack-Mart.
It's not illegal to buy, it's illegal to sell. What will they do to buyers? Increase their customer portfolio?

Sellers are the ones that need more care about expose their identity, specially in the physical snail mail orders, not buyers.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on June 11, 2011, 02:37:13 PM
I'd just want to add that the search of private property without a warrant is something most police forces in the world can do.
The thing is, they need a warrant to search, EXCEPT there is a reasonable danger that evidence will be lost if they wait for a warrant.
now, if they search your stuff and find some contraband, they can claim that apparently the search was justified and thus get away most likely, while you are fucked.
on the other hand, if they don't find anything, you have a real chance to see money and such as a compensation, though it is ridiculous in the most cases and the chance not always given.
the bottom line is, if they know you have hidden and forbidden stuff in there they can just go and bust you right away.
true story, applies for most countries.
greets, M


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 11, 2011, 03:06:17 PM
actually it /is/ illegal to buy AND sell..
and what they can do is reduce trust. So 10 people by from you site, 5 of them get hit with fines or arrests but are allowed to tell people "i got busted from this site" suddenly almost no one trusts the site, and the site dies.

its rather simple.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 11, 2011, 03:11:23 PM
Nesetalis,

You're one of those negative sort of guys... no, it's not that "rather simple". Yes, such would be negative publicity, but is like having people saying that had bough broken stuff out of eBay; you probably get thousands each day and still eBay carries on.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 11, 2011, 03:12:50 PM
No, not negative, a realist. You're committing a crime in their books, cover your ass and watch out.

trying to make believe that nothing bad can happen is the first step to getting yourself royally screwed.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 11, 2011, 03:21:55 PM
You're always pushing towards the bad events, thinking like you and the humanity would still believe Earth is flat. As there were risks to cross the ocean, there were risks to go to space, there're ALWAYS risks on practically anything you do...
If you're so afraid of the World, then rather you not even get your feet out of your house.

I'm NOT making believe nothing can happen. I just say you need to take applicable measures to not get busted, not fall into an insane loop of paranoia.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 11, 2011, 03:36:12 PM
you want me to run with that analogy? how about this. I'm pushing you to use a well made frigate, while you're trying to set sail on a single mast raft and 3 days of food and water.

Doesn't matter what either of us believes, what matters is how far you can go to prove the earth is round or flat. You aint going nowhere on that raft and I'm telling you so.

Prove me wrong, I'll be delighted to accept that, but Don't kid yourself, this isn't a game.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 11, 2011, 03:50:34 PM
Yeah right... well, I'm off, not up to feed you nor to disclose ANY SUBJECT of my site. That would be "building a raft". I own you no "activity reports", nor anyone else for that matters. Still, as far as I can see people is registering, buying and selling... so the site is fulfilling its whole purpose (go figure!).

I'm just curious on what is for you a "well made frigate"? Design? Unless you really lack sense of what Tor is, design is the last thing to matter there. Unless you want pages so beautiful that takes ages to open.

Publicity? Well, if I don't, then no one will know about it, I'm not looking to make newspaper ads or google adsense (in this case would be google adinsanity) anyway... this here and the link at TorDir are enough.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Basiley on June 11, 2011, 04:05:57 PM
Silkroad is going to be the downfall of bitcoin. It attracts too much attention to it.
any kind of [really-really]open marketplaces will be and very soon, i hope.
if you abstract you point of view far from bitching of feds/jourinalists undercover,flooded this thread, bitching there about illicit/malicious usage for marketplaces/currencies, you understand what im mean.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: BTCBuyer on June 11, 2011, 04:22:33 PM
Is the silkroad done for good?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jdumond on June 11, 2011, 06:37:33 PM
Still, even if they can act as sellers that doesn't add much for feds, unless they want to open the FBI's Smack-Mart.
It's not illegal to buy, it's illegal to sell. What will they do to buyers? Increase their customer portfolio?

Sellers are the ones that need more care about expose their identity, specially in the physical snail mail orders, not buyers.

perhaps by FBI smack mart you mean early 80's American inner cities?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: FlipPro on June 11, 2011, 06:38:28 PM
YOU WILL GET FUCKED...  ;D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: RonnieP on June 11, 2011, 08:52:01 PM
perhaps by FBI smack mart you mean early 80's American inner cities?

LOL.... Only because its true though.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: z00p on June 11, 2011, 11:47:23 PM
looks like the login screen is back up. can anyone verify that the site has returned?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 12, 2011, 12:00:45 AM
site is back up yes.



Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: jessica_rabbit on June 12, 2011, 01:24:52 AM
But still not accepting new members right?  >:(


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mike69er on June 12, 2011, 01:33:44 AM
But still not accepting new members right?  >:(



any idea when u can take on new members...............PLEASE and THANK YOU.......


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Chucksheen on June 12, 2011, 01:42:09 AM
Also looking for u/n and p/w. or info on roughly when we could be able to register again.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: jessica_rabbit on June 12, 2011, 01:50:37 AM
But still not accepting new members right?  >:(



any idea when u can take on new members...............PLEASE and THANK YOU.......
I'll keep trying. Soon as I know I'll post here.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: serial on June 12, 2011, 02:07:44 AM
I should have registered when it was accepting.. the site appears up however just no ability to create a new account


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mariokiller64 on June 12, 2011, 02:09:12 AM
No new members eh?
That sucks, I should have registered earlier  :-\

I'm not interested in drugs or anything...I actually want to see how the site looks, works, etc.  Oh well.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: mg101 on June 12, 2011, 02:34:29 AM
Another noob here, hoping new members are allowed soon!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Basiley on June 12, 2011, 02:37:22 AM
that's unlikely. until ppl make final political decision about :[
until that - new feds can move along/away.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on June 12, 2011, 03:21:51 AM
Any one desperate enough to buy an account? I have a few of them if anyone is too impatient to wait for open registration.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Woshie on June 12, 2011, 10:49:58 AM
Any one desperate enough to buy an account? I have a few of them if anyone is too impatient to wait for open registration.

Probably not, everyday Silk Road has closed registration their competitor Blackmarket just grow larger and larger.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 12, 2011, 11:13:44 AM
Probably not, everyday Silk Road has closed registration their competitor Blackmarket just grow larger and larger.

Sorry for carry bad news... but BM registrations are now closed also.
Will work in an escrow system before put it back up. Shouldn't take long.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 12, 2011, 12:42:07 PM
selling either my SR/BM account. pm me with offers.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 12, 2011, 12:44:50 PM
New Batch of registrations for Silk Road in stock.

also have ONE Black Market registration.

first come first served.

PM me with your offer.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on June 12, 2011, 03:11:30 PM
you really rise the urge to puke in me, lads
greets, M


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 12, 2011, 05:56:43 PM
Just to let you know; BlackMarket registration is now open.
Sorry for the inconvenience, had to do a few changes around.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Urquan on June 12, 2011, 07:10:56 PM
explain the puking thing.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Modoki on June 12, 2011, 09:26:59 PM
Quote
New Batch of registrations for Silk Road in stock.

well, if anyone, silkroad should sell these.
also, "batch", what the fuck, man.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Grix on June 12, 2011, 09:33:14 PM
Selling silk road account, PM me with offer


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jdumond on June 13, 2011, 05:01:20 AM
Not looking for specifics but anyone used either if these sites with success?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Uhrenknecht on June 13, 2011, 06:18:08 AM
Registrations are open!


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 13, 2011, 06:25:51 AM
Registrations are open!

confirmed.

returning your btc's to everyone who purchased today.

thanks and enjoy The Silk Road !


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Grix on June 13, 2011, 09:38:39 AM
Not looking for specifics but anyone used either if these sites with success?

Yes.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Jdumond on June 13, 2011, 02:58:52 PM
tried to register just loads forever and times out.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: backopy on June 13, 2011, 03:45:25 PM
tried to register just loads forever and times out.

Guess SR didn't got that one too; that's why they closed registration.
The 502 errors aren't server-load related, but Tor related. They depend on the "road" you took and the nodes along it. If they're fast it will look like you're in the plain open internet, if slow... well... they'll timeout.
Now, you can try to ask Vidalia to look for a new road by pressing "Change Identity" and hope to get one less bumpy than the one you're already.

BlackMarket is receiving more than 1 new registration per minute without any issue.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Marcus on June 14, 2011, 03:58:40 AM
... BlackMarket is receiving more than 1 new registration per minute without any issue.

I second that from Backopy.
Registered just a few minutes ago on BlackMarket.onion.
Quick and easy.

But I'm new to TOR, so that took some head-scratching time.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: braves182 on June 14, 2011, 04:20:19 AM
you registered at BlackMarket.onion.?  I see some one trolling or just a fricken' idiot


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Sideways on June 14, 2011, 05:38:51 AM
Currently I can login to SR, but all i get are blank pages after that.

Anyone else get this? Is it just me?


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: sir murray on June 14, 2011, 05:39:59 AM
Currently I can login to SR, but all i get are blank pages after that.

Anyone else get this? Is it just me?
I get it too


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Bind on June 14, 2011, 06:36:58 AM
Silk Roads server is accepting connections and there is data being transmitted. The pages are blank. No idea what the issue is.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: fabianhjr on June 14, 2011, 01:29:28 PM
It is once again accepting registrations. Anybody can get it.

BlackMarket also opened recently registrations again.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Nesetalis on June 14, 2011, 01:30:34 PM
this isnt the thread for blackmarket, please stop advertising in this thread.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: fabianhjr on June 14, 2011, 01:58:54 PM
I apologies, I am only informing that both opened registration, so I got an account and now everyone can.

So, the good news is that SR is open again. :)


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: AaronM on June 15, 2011, 03:50:25 AM
Hi Silk Road ops,

I'm just wondering if you guys are taking any precautions against LEO infiltration... how would you detect this?

So far I've seen nothing I don't like about the site :D


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: Babylon on June 15, 2011, 04:04:36 AM
...black transactions ... black market...
Why's it gotta be "black"?

Because I'm not sure what's really going on here I don't think I'm in any position to judge what is or isn't "feasible."
I think that will a little bit of due diligence, you know, reading up on Bitcoin some more, reading the thread, perusing Silk Road, you'll find yourself in a better position to contribute to the thread with useful suggestions and debate. I write this entirely without snark in the hopes of driving the point that the people running Silk Road have no power to exclude anyone. Its operators can try to ban certain products, but they will just show up under different names. As we know (and for those who hadn't, you're welcome), in the absence of an adult services section, you need to proof-read for accidental innuendos in your Craigslist post, lest you encounter a large woman with a strap-on instead of the pegboard you expected. Furthermore, the folks at Silk Road can't stop those running a Silk Road clone from catering to people wishing to trade in whatever products the original had banned.

Quote
If it's a hoax, it's beautiful.  On the other hand if it is not a hoax...
Let's just assume that it's not a hoax.

Quote
...then I believe it becomes part of the problem. Certainly nothing like cartels and gangs, yet still operating as if it, Silk Road, were above the law.  My aim has always been to change the law and make things better for everybody, except of course those who get fat off the way the law is today.
Everyone, raise your hand if you broke the law today. Working within the bounds of the law will only get us so far, so fast. Is the thought of breaking the system, or letting it break itself, so bad? Se cayó.

Or was she pushed?

I have given it some thought, about suggestions on handling illegal drug transactions in an ethical and moral fashion sans rule of law.  I conclude that SR or anyone else for that matter, should follow standard harm-reduction principles as much as possible. 

I think the first priority should be to design and implement an age-verify system.  An unrelated 3rd party could be contracted to, given a name, date and place of birth, use public records to verify the buyer's age then return a special key to the buyer.  The seller can then request that key as needed, and use it in a query on the 3rd party's server to return an accept or reject directive.

I guess it could not be mandatory, but perhaps it could be rewarded by positive reputation points for sellers who require age-verify.  I suppose too that once age-verify has been established true, the same seller and buyer would not need to repeat the process so it would only impact the first transaction.

Sellers or SR or both should make the following absolutely clear to all buyers of hard drugs:

  • The safest drug use is no use.
  • Never take a drug you do not completely understand.
  • Do not inject or consume any narcotic alone, if possible have a non-user by your side.
  • Never mix alcohol use and narcotics.
  • Always use a new, sterile rig when injecting.
  • Follow appropriate cleaning (sterile pads) of the injection site prior to injection.
  • If you feel you need help dealing with drug addiction call this help line (research a service)

There are additional guidelines that would be more appropriate for other substances that should also be considered.  And of course any manufacturers and pharmaceutical information, instructions, pamphlets, or packing material should be included in every order of this sort.


Guidelines and links to erowid and so forth are an excellent idea.

Age Verification is Identity Verification and that is a terrible idea.


Title: Re: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)
Post by: MoonShadow on June 15, 2011, 04:07:19 AM
Hi Silk Road ops,

I'm just wondering if you guys are taking any precautions against LEO infiltration... how would you detect this?

So far I've seen nothing I don't like about the site :D

We are not silk road.