Bitcoin Forum

Hello

We have this feature in our pool since last week. It is being used by more and more users.
Currently there is only one version: system chooses currency which is most profitable and switches all AUTO workers to this currency. I would like to introduce more sophisticated versions.

One of our miners, shaun5000 had a great idea: automate not only switching to the most profitable coin but automate exchange to bitcoins as well.  

In this topic I would like to get some feedback from you. Please let me know what would you improve or add in this area.  

Haha yes that would be excellent. Instead of letting them hoard SolidCoins sell them immediately to get BTC back. I'm sure doublec or moon will help you out with this :)

Great feature but you dont seem to have any info on your site with regards to mining fees?

edit: nm found it

Btw, how long does the 'startup' period run?

Until we reach some stable level with hashrate over 100GH/s

first and foremost, congrats on the app of the year for mining pools. Awesome idea. with the auto worker.

now back to the current topic....


wait you are actually considering this? what would you do, just sell them automatically for the highest buys on the exchanges? Ok i could see some interest all though it is hardly the optimal way to trade these things. Or would you hold a huge pile of btc and just exchange everyones coins for the last price on the market?

and if this became some what popular wouldnt this pretty much destroy alternative coins? we need some hoarders or the exchange rates would be crap and plus i figure one or two of these coins are trying to become a real acceptable alternative to bitcoin, just having everyone dump isnt the greatest of ideas.

I get why people want this, they are lazy and suck at trading, hey me too, well lazy anyways, but I'm not sure if this is a good idea, like the auto worker.

yeah i know people who want to dump are going to dump, i do it all the time, and perhaps some people wont want to and will turn off this feature and go do the market thing by hand, I'm not sure if it is the best feature for miners...idk i will think on it more it just sounds like trouble to me on the surface.


Now automagically trading btc into dollars for big businesses... now that is an idea.

I see some problems with it just in terms of logistics. Exchange fees being a big one. And then the fact that... that's a lot of transactions. Unless they're pooled ... but doing an exchange sale only once every 24 hours is pretty sub-optimal especially with a volatile currency on each end. Doing them every block would probably garner the same concern from a different group.

On top of that, Joules, you are absolutely right that it could easily end up serving to kill the alternate currencies. Automated selling of a massive amount of available supply right as its generated... is going to kill the point, because the values will drop and it will be most profitable to mine Bitcoin to have Bitcoin.

Obviously miners (and that includes me!) are going to worry about whether we're profitable. But there really is such a thing about taking the biggest bazooka you can find, pointing it at your foot, pulling the trigger... and blowing your balls clear into orbit because your attempt to maximize profit was just that short-sighted and ill-conceived.

Am I reading the stats wrong, or are we really on a 31 minute SC block with nearly 100 GH/s?

I like the auto-switch feature!
I would like it even more if it would be possible to select/unselect currencies, so it doesn't switch to coins I don't like to mine.
Don't know if it's difficult to implement?

It is nothing unusual. According to Bitcoin calculator http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/old_calculator.php with difficulty 13000 and hashspeed 100GH there is 5% chance that you find block after 27 minutes.

We had a killer block in micro scale :)

I agree. First thing I wanted to do with my own workers was to select subset of coins for this function.
I'm adding this to requirements list.

If this was done and including your fees I'd get more out of it as of normal bitcoin mining, I'd stick to your pool.

Thats perfect, thanks.  I had set mine to auto, but some were mining BTC even though IO and SC were better.  Looking forward to this option!

Indeed, until Wednesday workers sometimes "liked" to stay with BTC for a while :)
I have eliminated this error.

Coinotron is showing 0.01410234 as the rate for SC even though it's current at around 0.008 to 0.009 and has been for a few hours. Misleading. :P

EDIT: Stuck there for a few hours, but it seems fixed now.

My fault. I was trying to make some improvements to pool's performance and I've accidently kill process which calculates profitability.

AUTO option still doesnt work for me. Even deleted and recreated my workers..still fails. Right now its wanting to mine i0coin which imo is the most unprofitable of the lot...

i0c is the most profitable right now. Difficulty retargets pretty quick with that coin for some reason.

Yea its changed since I posted. I think using the AUTO feature it can take a little while to update too.

AUTO doesn't fire instantly. It is based on coins profitability table and this table is refreshed every 100 seconds.
So in the worst case, workers will switch to new currency with delay of 100 seconds.

LOL Oldminer mines on coinotron?

Was that your 0.02 GH/s mining ixcoins earlier? Then when I brought it to your attention it magically disappeared?

Why stop? Mining at a loss on ixcoins is THE BEST IDEA EVER!

 :D

Thanks for that

can you link solidcoin to the moonco.in exchange?

Yep. Done :)

I like the idea about automatically changing from other coins to bitcoin. I have a couple questions/suggestions. I wonder if you would consider putting the same type of system in for the smaller coins. So for example if you wanted ixcoins you could mine bitcoins and have them changed over automatically. I think this would help to even out the pressures on the market. A problem with this idea is that it adds complexity and you'll have to deal with multiple exchanges to implement this idea in full. Also one faulty trading bot is all it would take to finish the snoozing pool operator.

Maybe you catch my drift and know what my second suggestion is. Its..... Form your own exchange. Its the only way to do it right. By running your own exchange you cut out the middle man and pass the savings on to me! Additionally you could do some arbitrage between exchanges when the exchange fees make sense. Barring a full multicoin exchange it should still be easy to swap coins between members of the pool who want different coins.

Let me know what you think.

edit: Ohh ya and increase the amount of time before I have to log in again. I don't want to refresh the page every minute but I will if I have to! j/k :P

Blocks solved SC
#    Block #    Solved on    Duration    Status
1400    31924    2011-09-08 14:33:57    0:2:39    119 to conf.
1399    31922    2011-09-08 14:31:18    0:2:43    Inv.
1398    31921    2011-09-08 14:28:35    0:10:17    Inv.
1397    31915    2011-09-08 14:18:18    0:1:6    Inv.
1396    31914    2011-09-08 14:17:12    0:1:24    Inv.
1395    31913    2011-09-08 14:15:48    0:2:55    Inv.
1394    31912    2011-09-08 14:12:53    0:3:24    Inv.
1393    31911    2011-09-08 14:09:29    0:5:34    106 to conf.

what is going on?
where i can find working blockexplorer for solidcoins  ?

you cant. The block explorer is broken last time I checked.

Working just fine for me.

http://abe.john-edwin-tobey.org/chain/SolidCoin?hi=31942&count=50
http://abe.john-edwin-tobey.org/

It happened twice during last week. I've seen posts describing identical situation in another pool. I will ask Solidcoin author what can cause that.

Thanks.
I agree that having own exchange is probably the best way of realizing automated coin exchange.
Though there is second possibility. Let’s say semi-automatic exchange. Imagine that exists exchange where you would have account with function of automated exchange of given currency into another. There should be permanent address to which you would point your payouts from Coinotron also. I must ask exchange operators what they think of such functionality.

Idea of having own exchange is tempting. But to be honest at this moment and with resources I have it is not feasible.

Regarding frequent logging in. Could you specify how many minutes we are taking about? What browser do you use?

I use the latest firefox. I wouldn't mind if the pool site kept me logged in for hours. Or maybe that could be a user controlled thing.

OK. It should be at least 120 min, though I didn't test it. I will add this to list of issues.

2011-09-13  New features added.

1. New improved version of AUTO worker is available. Now you can choose what coins can be mined using this kind of worker!  For example if you want to enable automated mining only on SC and BTC :
- go to “My account” page
- set checkboxes in column “Auto” for BTC and SC
- deselect other coins
- click “Save” button

2. Realtime calculated hash speed of workers

3. Performance improvements.

Damn, you read my mind!  I was just thinking today how I want to auto mine all coins except ixcoins (or what ever coin is out of fashion).  Now I can!

Yes, but when I try to open link, IE blocks site from downloading files. What files need to be downloades from blockexplorer.sytes.net ?

None.  Use a real browser.    :)

ixcoin on fire.  Someone put a lot of miners there 15 blocks to 20160.

Ready, get set .....

Hehe real browser didn't say anything. :)
Site is cool. I would like to add links from coinotron blocks to your site, but there is still a lot of users using IE (40%). I don't want to explain everyone what browser should he use or that there is no danger. Could you look into this strange IE behavior ?
 

What file is your toy browser trying to download?  I can't check it out myself, since I don't own any WinSlow computer.  And, by the way, people shouldn't be using that to handle money, should they?   ;D

Still it is 40% of the market. You cannot deny its existence regardless you like it or not :)
Below is content of dialog box which pops up when I accept download:

"Do you want to save that file or find online program to open it"

File name: 150_214_61_49
Type: Unknown file type
From: 150.214.61.49

Find, Save, Cancel

I have no idea what does it mean :|

Your "Content-type" header is setup too aggresively on your website:

http://150.214.61.49:2750/

It is "application/xhtml+xml" and it should be "text/html" if you want to have a wide acceptance. Allowing full XML applications is a security risk, and IE on Windows isn't accepting that anymore due to the past abuse.

Changed in Abe.  Thanks.

I have changed the domain name redirection, which I think it was what it was causing this behaviour on the Internet Toy Explorer.  Could you please check whether the problem persists or not?

Thank you, John.  I've upgraded my site.

Now IE toy works without any messages. :)
But what happened to i0c and ixc ?

Nice.  i0c and ixc have suffered a collateral damage of the last changes I've made.  They'll be coming...

Can you make your search case insensitive?

First link works fine. In second I changed last 'e' -> 'E' and your explorer can't find block.

http://blockexplorer.sytes.net/block/000000000005eb3ca6082db4d590cf961dd4ed1ece2c1c1303d2305ca92b027e (http://blockexplorer.sytes.net/block/000000000005eb3ca6082db4d590cf961dd4ed1ece2c1c1303d2305ca92b027e)
http://blockexplorer.sytes.net/block/000000000005eb3ca6082db4d590cf961dd4ed1ece2c1c1303d2305ca92b027E (http://blockexplorer.sytes.net/block/000000000005eb3ca6082db4d590cf961dd4ed1ece2c1c1303d2305ca92b027E)

For them to work properly in the blockexplorer I need to know what are their address version.  The equivalent for Bitcoin is \u00f3.  Does anybody know what are the right ones for i0c and ixc, please?  As soon as I get this piece of information they'll be back at the explorer.

I0 populating the database, Ix will follow.

I have increased session-timeout from 30 to 120 minutes. 

When do you expect Solid Coins to be mined again in your pool?  Is this CPU mining thing gonna actually start?

As soon as CoinHunter will launch SC 2.0. CPU mining will be of course available.

Aren't all Bitcoin address types case sensitive?

That was link to block hash, not address. Hashes are written as hexadecimal thus may be treated as case insensitive.

Do both blocks actually exist?  If the second does not, it's logical that it won't find it.

No only first block exists. Second one is simply first one with last character 'e' changed to 'E'. It was an example.
Anyway now I'm converting all links to blocks in your explorer to lower case.

That's a job for regular expressions, isn't it?   :)

For BlockExplorer compatibility, I'm making Abe case-insensitive, so all it takes is an upgrade.

https://github.com/jtobey/bitcoin-abe/commit/d39d32d958e6aa467aa7022644237e728a924ddb

-John

Wow, John!  Thank you!
Upgraded already.
Let see if I get some donations coming so that part of them can go to the author...   :)

2011-09-28 New enhanced version of to auto-worker.

We've added possibility to set handicap for each coin. It affects algorithm of selection of most profitable coin. It can be used together with auto-worker. It works just like handicap in soccer betting.
If you prefer some coin over others you can set handicap to positive value. This coin will be selected for mining even if its profitability is below 1.0.
If you set negative value then coin will be selected only when its profitability is much higher than profitability of other coins.

Let's see how it works. Let's assume that we are interested only in BTC or I0C mining and BTC profitability is equal 1.

Example 1.
User wants to mine i0coins even if their profitability is below 1. He sets I0C handicap to +15%. Worker will be switched to I0C at I0C profitability = 0.87 ( 1/(1 + 15%) ). Below 0.87, worker will mine BTC.

Example 2.
User wants to mine i0coins only if they are significantly more valuable than BTC. He sets I0C handicap to -20%. Worker will be switched to I0C at I0C profitability = 1.25 ( 1/(1 - 20%) ). Below 1.25, worker will mine BTC.

Tried with +15 & after save it shows 15 only. Is it taking +15 as 15?
Tried with +5 & it changes back to 10. seems minimum value is 10. is it?

Currently it doesn't accept character "+". I can't save neither +15 nor +5. But 15 and 5 are saved without problem.
Yes, +15 is displayed as 15. I will try to change display format, +15 looks better :)

I guess the "profit" calculation for i0coin is not valid anymore, because there is no longer an exchange for i0coins. :'(

You are right. Doublec shutted down exchange but API is still working :)
I didn't check this while disabling auto-worker for ixc and i0c.

Will you be allocating SC2.0 coins for our SC1.0 coins in our coinotron accounts?  It seems as though they are just gone for now.

How does one withdraw the mined SC2 from Coinotron, please?  All other currencies seem to be possible to get, but SC2's "Auto" box cannot be selected?

Too many errors.  sc_getwork error : no response from server.
can't mine.

I still don't get how to enable this feature
 ???

I knew this forum is full of miners, but I was shure a different kind of miners than this.

This feature has been disabled a year ago.

a DDoS? site is down.