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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 02:34:31 PM



Title: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 02:34:31 PM
"Digital image and video recording is now routinely used in venues as diverse as banks, stores, and taxis. A properly designed system could aim to ensure that cash could only be accepted or disbursed when both the agent and the person providing or accepting the cash were on video."

http://www.bakerinstitute.org/publications/ITP-pub-FinancialTransactions-082911.pdf


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: bitrebel on September 01, 2011, 06:54:32 PM
+1,000,000

Thanks Cypherdoc, you are awesome!
That's a great document for all of us to read. I just browsed it over real fast.
I noticed it talked about World of Warcraft Gold, and E-Gold, but didn't see a bitcoin mention. Is it there? Can you give us a synopsis? If not, i'll do it later this evening.
Great post!


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:05:34 PM
yes.  it explicitly pointed out Bitcoin.  we're a target.  we need to go deeper.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: bitrebel on September 01, 2011, 07:07:37 PM
yes.  it explicitly pointed out Bitcoin.  we're a target.  we need to go deeper.
I'm going to read it all later on this afternoon. I'll post a synopsis tonight, if it's not done already.
I think it's an extremely important article. Who commissioned it or who was it created for? Which agency or think tank? Can you gather anything else about this?


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:08:31 PM
yes.  it explicitly pointed out Bitcoin.  we're a target.  we need to go deeper.
I'm going to read it all later on this afternoon. I'll post a synopsis tonight, if it's not done already.
I think it's an extremely important article. Who commissioned it or who was it created for? Which agency or think tank? Can you gather anything else about this?

Brookings Institute.  pretty prominent.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: RodeoX on September 01, 2011, 07:08:58 PM
Thanks doc. Ill have to read this tonight.

Just seeing the title and the publication date, we know who they are talking about.  :(


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:27:26 PM
the good news from reading btwn the lines and from what i know of gov't, i don't think they're anywhere near to dealing with Bitcoin from a technological standpoint.  but from a troll standpoint, i think they're already here.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: hugolp on September 01, 2011, 07:28:43 PM
Here are the parts where they talk about Bitcoin:

Quote
Enter Bitcoin, a digital currency based on a paper9 that was self-published on the Internet in 2009
by an author listed as Satoshi Nakamoto, and whose true identity and location has generated
much speculation but much less concrete information. Bitcoin utilizes a peer-to-peer network to
create multiple complete replicas of transactions conducted by people whose identities are
hidden behind public-private key encryption pairs.10

While e-gold was backed by actual gold, Bitcoin is fully virtual, backed only by the confidence
of the people who use it for transactions. A governmental entity attempting to shut down Bitcoin
servers in its territory would almost certainly find that even more servers would spring up,
Hydra-like, in other parts of the world. As of July 23, 2011, there were approximately 6.9 million
Bitcoins trading at a value of more than $13 per Bitcoin, corresponding to a total supply of over
$90 million.11

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the use of encrypted identities in Bitcoin has spurred the creation of an
online market that accepts payments only in Bitcoins and links anonymous drug buyers with
anonymous drug sellers.12 As Senators Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Charles Schumer (D-NY)
stated in a June 2011 letter sent to Attorney General Eric Holder and Drug Enforcement
Administration Administrator Michele Leonhart, “after purchasing Bitcoins through an
exchange, a user can create an account on Silk Road and start purchasing illegal drugs from
individuals around the world and have them delivered to their homes within days.”13

The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record. It is also possible to envision systems in which the transaction records are not only
distributed, but evanescent, so that even the collective information stored on all the servers in the
system at any given time would not enable a complete reconstruction of transaction history.

Later on:

Quote
Technology itself is a critical aspect of the solution in several respects. First, government
agencies need to maintain an understanding of the novel methods being used to move money. On
June 14, 2011, Bitcoin open source project lead Gavin Andresen gave a presentation to a CIA
conference on emerging technologies.48 Afterward, Andresen had little to say about the meeting
other that it “went well.”49 While there was ample speculation as to why Andresen was there,
even on Andresen’s own forum, the fact that the visit occurred shows that the importance of
understanding virtual currencies—and by extension, the wider set of methods that can be used to
mask illicit financial transactions—is understood in the intelligence community.

And finally:

Quote
For the United States to ensure its national and financial security, the ability to understand the
massive flow of digital information that is the global financial system today, from micro to
macro, and from baht to Bitcoins, is of fundamental importance. Where once the numbered
Swiss bank account, the wire transfer to a shell corporation, or, as in All the President’s Men, a
paper bag containing $25,000 in cash were primary means for covert financial activity, the
Internet and mobile phone networks are the potential setting for a vastly expanded set of new,
digital avenues for conducting hidden transactions.

Clearly, the banks are annoyed that we are trying to operate outside the regulated system.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:33:16 PM
But it definitely shows we're on the right track...


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: BitcoinStars.com on September 01, 2011, 07:35:37 PM
Bitcoin pwns the govts 8)


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:37:56 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: bitrebel on September 01, 2011, 07:40:26 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?

It's law enforcement's Achilles Heel, that's why they say that, I think.
It's a good read. It's kind of boring though. Not much news really. But it does show Bitcoins impact and reaction from corporations and government.

Clearly Bitcoin is a problem for some people. This is a very good thing.  8)


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Raoul Duke on September 01, 2011, 07:44:08 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Vladimir on September 01, 2011, 07:44:58 PM
"war on sound money" is in works


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:46:35 PM
"war on sound money" is in works

LOL! :D  do you know what a Central Bankers worst nightmare is?  SOUND MONEY!!!


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:48:05 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 07:50:26 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?

It's law enforcement's Achilles Heel, that's why they say that, I think.
It's a good read. It's kind of boring though. Not much news really. But it does show Bitcoins impact and reaction from corporations and government.

Clearly Bitcoin is a problem for some people. This is a very good thing.  8)

yeah, i thought it was boring too.  but what made it boring is that its not really a research piece.  no statistics, figures, graphs.  just alot of fear and innuendo justifying gov't counteraction.  something you'd expect from a gov't pawn.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: MajorMiner on September 01, 2011, 07:54:07 PM
Awesome stuff, thanks for digging it up! Reminds me of an old Gandhi quote, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: enmaku on September 01, 2011, 07:57:04 PM
Only had to go to page 4 for the best quote in the doc:

Quote
Almost no one would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace digital financial transactions associated with activities such as terrorism and human trafficking.

I would.

I would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace a damn thing, regardless what I'm suspected of. I've seen this argument in various forms so many times it's laughable and I'm honestly surprised that, for once, they didn't throw "child pornography" into that sentence. It IS the classic scapegoat of governmental agencies who want more power/control after all.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Raoul Duke on September 01, 2011, 07:57:32 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.

It will be a pleasure to watch them crawl and moan and suffer while Bitcoin slowly kills their system ;)

The good part is that the general public will all know what Bitcoin is when the banks start their war on Bitcoin.
And the effect will be completely opposite to the banksters goals :D


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: guywhogotgoxed on September 01, 2011, 08:02:08 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?

It's law enforcement's Achilles Heel, that's why they say that, I think.
It's a good read. It's kind of boring though. Not much news really. But it does show Bitcoins impact and reaction from corporations and government.

Clearly Bitcoin is a problem for some people. This is a very good thing.  8)

yeah, i thought it was boring too.  but what made it boring is that its not really a research piece.  no statistics, figures, graphs.  just alot of fear and innuendo justifying gov't counteraction.  something you'd expect from a gov't pawn.
The syntax of that sentence does not imply that it is the law enforcements achilles heel. Seems like they got it all wrong, this is what keeps btc from being counterfeited and prevents double spends. Harder to counterfeit than actual cash! That is one hell of a trait considering cash has been around for so long. An applause to mr Nakamoto.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 08:03:27 PM
Only had to go to page 4 for the best quote in the doc:

Quote
Almost no one would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace digital financial transactions associated with activities such as terrorism and human trafficking.

I would.

I would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace a damn thing, regardless what I'm suspected of. I've seen this argument in various forms so many times it's laughable and I'm honestly surprised that, for once, they didn't throw "child pornography" into that sentence. It IS the classic scapegoat of governmental agencies who want more power/control after all.

yeah, they used that phrase at least twice in the document as if they have a mandate to save all of us at the expense of our liberties and to their enrichment.  sickening really.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Piper67 on September 01, 2011, 08:03:45 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?

It's law enforcement's Achilles Heel, that's why they say that, I think.
It's a good read. It's kind of boring though. Not much news really. But it does show Bitcoins impact and reaction from corporations and government.

Clearly Bitcoin is a problem for some people. This is a very good thing.  8)

yeah, i thought it was boring too.  but what made it boring is that its not really a research piece.  no statistics, figures, graphs.  just alot of fear and innuendo justifying gov't counteraction.  something you'd expect from a gov't pawn.
The syntax of that sentence does not imply that it is the law enforcements achilles heel. Seems like they got it all wrong, this is what keeps btc from being counterfeited and prevents double spends. Harder to counterfeit than actual cash! That is one hell of a trait considering cash has been around for so long. An applause to mr Nakamoto.

Or Ms. Nakamoto  :D


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: bitrebel on September 01, 2011, 08:03:50 PM
Only had to go to page 4 for the best quote in the doc:

Quote
Almost no one would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace digital financial transactions associated with activities such as terrorism and human trafficking.

I would.

I would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace a damn thing, regardless what I'm suspected of. I've seen this argument in various forms so many times it's laughable and I'm honestly surprised that, for once, they didn't throw "child pornography" into that sentence. It IS the classic scapegoat of governmental agencies who want more power/control after all.

100% Agreed!


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 08:05:37 PM
The syntax of that sentence does not imply that it is the law enforcements achilles heel. Seems like they got it all wrong, this is what keeps btc from being counterfeited and prevents double spends. Harder to counterfeit than actual cash! That is one hell of a trait considering cash has been around for so long. An applause to mr Nakamoto.

thats exactly right.  THIS is what gives me hope.  dealing with a bunch of dummies.  i'm bullish.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Piper67 on September 01, 2011, 08:10:55 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?

It is the achilies heel because the complete transaction record can be combed through to pinpoint where the money went, thereby connecting identities to illegal transactions. Or something like that. To me trying to find a person by tracking down their money through the blockchain sounds almost impossible, but I guess really smart people could do it.

There seems to be a fair bit of disagreement on this point. The record is for the transactions themselves. Pairing those to any specific identity, while conceivable, may prove to be extremely difficult if someone has taken the steps to avoid detection.

Pretty much the same as cold hard cash, really.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 01, 2011, 08:11:48 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?

It is the achilies heel because the complete transaction record can be combed through to pinpoint where the money went, thereby connecting identities to illegal transactions. Or something like that. To me trying to find a person by tracking down their money through the blockchain sounds almost impossible, but I guess really smart people could do it.

i totally disagree.  the more widely the entire tx record is distributed the stronger the network is to an attack.  all it takes is for one node with a complete record to restore/redistribute Bitcoin to the rest of us in the off chance everyone else gets taken down.  all the gov't needs is one copy gotten from blockexplorer.com to comb through but it doesn't really matter; its pretty pseudonymous.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: hugolp on September 01, 2011, 08:13:58 PM
"The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record."

i thought this was our strength?

It is the achilies heel because the complete transaction record can be combed through to pinpoint where the money went, thereby connecting identities to illegal transactions. Or something like that. To me trying to find a person by tracking down their money through the blockchain sounds almost impossible, but I guess really smart people could do it.

Exactly. They claim that since the history is there it might be posible to track the transactions. The problem as always is linking a Bitcoin address with a person. There is this researcher at some university that made some very cool graphs lnking addresses of the blockchain and he claims that he could find who stole some bitcoins, but he never did, so it remains unclear if he actually can or not. Nevertheless its important to understand that Bitcoin is psedo-anonymous, not anonymous, and that one has to be careful.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: BitLucky on September 01, 2011, 08:16:08 PM
Only had to go to page 4 for the best quote in the doc:

Quote
Almost no one would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace digital financial transactions associated with activities such as terrorism and human trafficking.

I would.

I would argue that governments do not have a right to track and trace a damn thing, regardless what I'm suspected of. I've seen this argument in various forms so many times it's laughable and I'm honestly surprised that, for once, they didn't throw "child pornography" into that sentence. It IS the classic scapegoat of governmental agencies who want more power/control after all.

+1

so tired of seeing the same old scaremongering in order to push laws / legislation through


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Mjbmonetarymetals on September 01, 2011, 09:54:24 PM
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab22/1973mb1973/c17a6249.jpg


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: JDBound on September 01, 2011, 10:33:51 PM
Awesome.

How did you go about finding this? We need you in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40783.0


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: herzmeister on September 01, 2011, 11:04:15 PM
I'd like to

http://i.imgur.com/1EGyy.gif

but things may be much more serious. "They" might go very far. Throughout history, many wars have been instigated for gaining control over nations' monetary systems.

Just to destroy Bitcoin and other P2P applications, they might enforce regulations on internet providers that essentially would shut down the free internet as we know it. They might centralize network access and make it into a proprietary thing that only runs the likes of MSN, FaceBook and appalling virtual shopping malls.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: ctoon6 on September 01, 2011, 11:06:39 PM

did you take that with your phone?

and the article was a pointless read, all it did was rehash everything a dedicated bitcoiner would already know.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Shortline on September 01, 2011, 11:10:39 PM


It will be a pleasure to watch them crawl and moan and suffer while Bitcoin slowly kills their system ;)

The good part is that the general public will all know what Bitcoin is when the banks start their war on Bitcoin.
And the effect will be completely opposite to the banksters goals :D
[/quote]

Don't get hysterical with joy yet.

You'll notice they use bitcoin as a proof that these things are possible, not that anything is really happening worth noting. And if you'll read the rest of the paper it goes on to show that African financial services and WoW gold are actually much, much more important than bitcoin probably will ever be. After all, how many new bitcoin users were there in Kenya today? One? Zero? There were thousands of new M-PESA users. These guys don't give a shit about bitcoin.

And frankly, I'm surprised that any of you all are shocked or angry that some think tanks are proposing obnoxious policy solutions. That's what they do. If nobody paid any attention to their whitepapers, nobody would give them any funding, and the moderate thinktanks are thus squeezed out of the public discourse.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 02, 2011, 12:32:39 AM

Don't get hysterical with joy yet.

You'll notice they use bitcoin as a proof that these things are possible, not that anything is really happening worth noting. And if you'll read the rest of the paper it goes on to show that African financial services and WoW gold are actually much, much more important than bitcoin probably will ever be. After all, how many new bitcoin users were there in Kenya today? One? Zero? There were thousands of new M-PESA users. These guys don't give a shit about bitcoin.

And frankly, I'm surprised that any of you all are shocked or angry that some think tanks are proposing obnoxious policy solutions. That's what they do. If nobody paid any attention to their whitepapers, nobody would give them any funding, and the moderate thinktanks are thus squeezed out of the public discourse.

i wouldn't be so skeptical.  someone here said they talked to an M Pesa rep the other day who admitted Bitcoin would be much less expensive to implement for Safaricom.  there's only so long that one can ignore a cheaper alternative.  we're also getting a Kenyan Exchange soon i think so the hammer will eventually come down by Bitcoin.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 02, 2011, 01:23:55 PM
http://irdial.com/blogdial/?p=3181

excellent read.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: the founder on September 02, 2011, 04:04:30 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.

yea they could.. go after dwoala , camp bx , flexcoin...  then push Japan to put pressure on Mt. Gox ...

Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.



Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 02, 2011, 04:15:49 PM
http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/09/02/national-intelligence-university-academic-launches-attack-against-digital-currencies/

another excellent read about this paper by michaelsuede.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 02, 2011, 04:16:48 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.

yea they could.. go after dwoala , camp bx , flexcoin...  then push Japan to put pressure on Mt. Gox ...

Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.



you mean like they're doing with gold?


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: the founder on September 02, 2011, 04:48:54 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.

yea they could.. go after dwoala , camp bx , flexcoin...  then push Japan to put pressure on Mt. Gox ...

Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.



you mean like they're doing with gold?

no, because if they wanted to do that with Gold ...  APMEX would have been raided already... as every single local pawn shop and jeweler that has a "cash for gold" sign on the front door.

Honestly they could just treat bitcoins like music filesharing...  and it will have roughly the same legal problems...  

I know I am in the minority in this, but I would rather it be regulated than have it "shut down" or better said "legally shut down"... because I believe that in the long run those are the only 2 options.



Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: tonto on September 02, 2011, 06:54:06 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.

They could, however, start buying it up to get rid of bit coins.  I imagine if the price keeps going down, they'll do that exact thing, in an attempt to side-lining the project and destroying the coins that they buy. 
 
Now, this could have the effect of raising bit coin prices so that fractions of a coin become just as valuable as well.  Who knows, we'll see! 


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Piper67 on September 02, 2011, 07:05:06 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.

They could, however, start buying it up to get rid of bit coins.  I imagine if the price keeps going down, they'll do that exact thing, in an attempt to side-lining the project and destroying the coins that they buy. 
 
Now, this could have the effect of raising bit coin prices so that fractions of a coin become just as valuable as well.  Who knows, we'll see! 

I was going along similar lines here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14163.0


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: ercolinux on September 02, 2011, 07:18:56 PM
They could, however, start buying it up to get rid of bit coins.  I imagine if the price keeps going down, they'll do that exact thing, in an attempt to side-lining the project and destroying the coins that they buy. 
 
Now, this could have the effect of raising bit coin prices so that fractions of a coin become just as valuable as well.  Who knows, we'll see! 

If they buy all the money they can hoard price will rise, but market will die slowly due to the fact that only BTC to goods transactions will be out of reach. But  the market is not ready to sustain a similar attack because there is only 1 level or at least 2 in the market (supplier will be payed in fiat currency for most of the merchant out there so all needs to convert BTC to fiat in short times)


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: MyBitcoinMint on September 02, 2011, 11:39:25 PM
Now the real fun will begin... The fuckers are feeling threated by Bitcoin. It's a huge day for Bitcoin, believe me.

Believe me.  They can't do anything about it.

yea they could.. go after dwoala , camp bx , flexcoin...  then push Japan to put pressure on Mt. Gox ...

Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.



I would think gov't attempts to shut down the Exchanges/Bitbanks would probably result in higher Bitcoin prices rather than lower...not to mention new exchanges/Bitbanks can pop up anytime/anywhere..



Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: Isepick on September 03, 2011, 12:35:43 AM
Or in order to disrupt Bitcoin the Feds could start a competing blockchain (http://www.solidcoin.info)

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5944/scts.jpg



Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: LightRider on September 03, 2011, 01:22:42 AM
What's the best way to rob a bank?

Stop using money.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: hugolp on September 03, 2011, 06:24:30 AM
What's the best way to rob a bank?

Stop using money.

Yes, thats also the best way to discoordinate the economy and make everybody poor.

The best way to rob a bank is stop using THEIR money.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 03, 2011, 07:05:03 AM
The best way to rob a bank?  Own one.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: bitrebel on September 03, 2011, 10:10:24 AM
The best way to rob a bank?  Own one.

best way to rob a bank...???

Wait for a Tsunami, and have a large boat nearby.

A guy in Japan recently returned 70 Million in funds locked in vaults that washed ashore after the flooding from the tsunami.

Why are the Japanese so gullible and dumb and nice?

FUCK THAT!

Banks insured! I KEEP IT ALL!


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: bitrebel on September 03, 2011, 10:35:13 AM
BTW, did you know the guy who is current President of the Brookings Institute for the last 10 years approx. is a known Skull & Bonesman. Talbott, Strobe - NO FUCKING SURPRISE, RIGHT? The piece of shit bastard Masons and scam artist politicians and fraudulent bankster scumbags!

Talbott, Nelson Strobridge III (b. 1946) — also known as Strobe Talbott — of Ohio. Born in 1946. U.S. Ambassador to , 1993-94. Member, Skull and Bones. Still living as of 1994.

http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/talbott.html#393.42.74





Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: ElectricMucus on September 03, 2011, 10:51:54 AM
Quote
...

The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record. It is also possible to envision systems in which the transaction records are not only
distributed, but evanescent, so that even the collective information stored on all the servers in the
system at any given time would not enable a complete reconstruction of transaction history.

It'd call this predictive programming, an attempt by it self to inject this idea ("terrorist cell" split-up of the blockchain)  into the bitcoin community. This attempt may even the whole purpose of the paper. If they are successful it would be easier to demonize bitcoin.

We are already under attack and this is the first strike in the psywar.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 03, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
The best way to rob a bank?  Own one.

best way to rob a bank...???

Wait for a Tsunami, and have a large boat nearby.

A guy in Japan recently returned 70 Million in funds locked in vaults that washed ashore after the flooding from the tsunami.

Why are the Japanese so gullible and dumb and nice?

FUCK THAT!

Banks insured! I KEEP IT ALL!

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html

"The best way to rob a bank?  Own one."


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cbeast on September 03, 2011, 11:55:29 AM
Quote
...

The potential Achilles heel of Bitcoin—that each server in the network contains a complete record
of all transactions—will almost certainly be addressed in future systems that distribute transaction
information so that no single server or small collection of servers contains a complete transaction
record. It is also possible to envision systems in which the transaction records are not only
distributed, but evanescent, so that even the collective information stored on all the servers in the
system at any given time would not enable a complete reconstruction of transaction history.

It'd call this predictive programming, an attempt by it self to inject this idea ("terrorist cell" split-up of the blockchain)  into the bitcoin community. This attempt may even the whole purpose of the paper. If they are successful it would be easier to demonize bitcoin.

We are already under attack and this is the first strike in the psywar.
Really? The blockchain size is the Achilles heel? Who do these people think they are? Oh right, never-mind. They do not understand bitcoin, nor the internet. It's a good thing we have actual smart people *doing* the work that makes technology possible while the anti-intellectuals write silly papers that do nothing. As far as competing multiple blockchains go; I'm all for them. As a psywar assault, this paper is an epic fail. I'll give the Brookings Institute a hint. If you want to attack bitcoins, passing laws against free speech won't work. Just buy them all up like Roosevelt did with gold. QED.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Steve on September 03, 2011, 03:56:54 PM
Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.
And bitcoin would still work perfectly well.

Anyone investing in bitcoin should assess the risk of government interference and remain appropriately diversified.  For people that simply want true two party transactions, bitcoin works at any price.  If governments really want to stop bitcoin, they'll need to place restrictions on all forms of digital communications.  They'll need to make sure you check with a government agency before you exchange USB keys with anyone.  The transfer of ownership of a computer will need to be a registered and tracked activity.  And let's not forget radio...bitcoin will work fine over HAM radio covering very large distances...they'll have to put an end to any form of digital communication over radio.  And what about bluetooth, NFC, QR codes and optical scanners...they'll need regulations for those.  They'll need to make sure any wifi enabled device runs only government provided software.

This article, while disturbing in many respects, is grossly underestimating the magnitude of the expenditure that will be required to stop or control digital currencies from proliferating.  At some point, I'm confident that govt's and financial institutions will make the rational, self interested and self preservationist decision that it is better to make use of digital currencies than to fight them.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 03, 2011, 04:10:54 PM
Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.
And bitcoin would still work perfectly well.

Anyone investing in bitcoin should assess the risk of government interference and remain appropriately diversified.  For people that simply want true two party transactions, bitcoin works at any price.  If governments really want to stop bitcoin, they'll need to place restrictions on all forms of digital communications.  They'll need to make sure you check with a government agency before you exchange USB keys with anyone.  The transfer of ownership of a computer will need to be a registered and tracked activity.  And let's not forget radio...bitcoin will work fine over HAM radio covering very large distances...they'll have to put an end to any form of digital communication over radio.  And what about bluetooth, NFC, QR codes and optical scanners...they'll need regulations for those.  They'll need to make sure any wifi enabled device runs only government provided software.

This article, while disturbing in many respects, is grossly underestimating the magnitude of the expenditure that will be required to stop or control digital currencies from proliferating.  At some point, I'm confident that govt's and financial institutions will make the rational, self interested and self preservationist decision that it is better to make use of digital currencies than to fight them.

+1.  this is the first time i've ever read of alternative creative ways to use Bitcoin.  care to elaborate about how Bitcoin could work over digital radio and bluetooth?


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: the founder on September 03, 2011, 04:11:04 PM
Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.
At some point, I'm confident that govt's and financial institutions will make the rational, self interested and self preservationist decision that it is better to make use of digital currencies than to fight them.

Steve, we're talking about Washington DC (the guys that almost defaulted on our debt last month) and Bankers that established over the past 200 years their own system that everyone legally has to follow.

Trust me there is a difference between rational and what we got going on in Washington.

It's akin to having Exxon be the legal regulatory power for Electric Cars...




Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE.
Post by: Steve on September 03, 2011, 04:50:20 PM
Can they shut down bitcoin?  No.. but they can send it to 10 cents by the time they are done.
And bitcoin would still work perfectly well.

Anyone investing in bitcoin should assess the risk of government interference and remain appropriately diversified.  For people that simply want true two party transactions, bitcoin works at any price.  If governments really want to stop bitcoin, they'll need to place restrictions on all forms of digital communications.  They'll need to make sure you check with a government agency before you exchange USB keys with anyone.  The transfer of ownership of a computer will need to be a registered and tracked activity.  And let's not forget radio...bitcoin will work fine over HAM radio covering very large distances...they'll have to put an end to any form of digital communication over radio.  And what about bluetooth, NFC, QR codes and optical scanners...they'll need regulations for those.  They'll need to make sure any wifi enabled device runs only government provided software.

This article, while disturbing in many respects, is grossly underestimating the magnitude of the expenditure that will be required to stop or control digital currencies from proliferating.  At some point, I'm confident that govt's and financial institutions will make the rational, self interested and self preservationist decision that it is better to make use of digital currencies than to fight them.

+1.  this is the first time i've ever read of alternative creative ways to use Bitcoin.  care to elaborate about how Bitcoin could work over digital radio and bluetooth?

There are only two things bitcoin nodes have to communicate with each other...transactions and blocks.  Neither of these require a particularly large amount of bandwidth and they are both asynchronous.  For the same reasons that the internet can be made to work over these communications channels, bitcoin can as well.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on September 03, 2011, 04:57:37 PM
BTW, did you know the guy who is current President of the Brookings Institute for the last 10 years approx. is a known Skull & Bonesman. Talbott, Strobe - NO FUCKING SURPRISE, RIGHT? The piece of shit bastard Masons and scam artist politicians and fraudulent bankster scumbags!

Talbott, Nelson Strobridge III (b. 1946) — also known as Strobe Talbott — of Ohio. Born in 1946. U.S. Ambassador to , 1993-94. Member, Skull and Bones. Still living as of 1994.

http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/talbott.html#393.42.74



Hate to break the bad news, but I've uncovered a many of them attached to Bitcoin via my stupid re-search of TW. Some of them being early adapters. Also, other early members are/were involved with WOW Gold and/or practice some form of occult.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: Vladimir on September 03, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: ElectricMucus on September 03, 2011, 05:04:59 PM
BTW, did you know the guy who is current President of the Brookings Institute for the last 10 years approx. is a known Skull & Bonesman. Talbott, Strobe - NO FUCKING SURPRISE, RIGHT? The piece of shit bastard Masons and scam artist politicians and fraudulent bankster scumbags!

Talbott, Nelson Strobridge III (b. 1946) — also known as Strobe Talbott — of Ohio. Born in 1946. U.S. Ambassador to , 1993-94. Member, Skull and Bones. Still living as of 1994.

http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/talbott.html#393.42.74



Hate to break the bad news, but I've uncovered a many of them attached to Bitcoin via my stupid re-search of TW. Some of them being early adapters. Also, other early members are/were involved with WOW Gold and/or practice some form of occult.
Do you have hard evidence of that?

We are crossing into tinfoilhat / omg its nwo the bohemian grove territory here.
Imho: Too much mystique over the cypherpunks


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: bitrebel on September 03, 2011, 06:13:55 PM
BTW, did you know the guy who is current President of the Brookings Institute for the last 10 years approx. is a known Skull & Bonesman. Talbott, Strobe - NO FUCKING SURPRISE, RIGHT? The piece of shit bastard Masons and scam artist politicians and fraudulent bankster scumbags!

Talbott, Nelson Strobridge III (b. 1946) — also known as Strobe Talbott — of Ohio. Born in 1946. U.S. Ambassador to , 1993-94. Member, Skull and Bones. Still living as of 1994.

http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/talbott.html#393.42.74



Hate to break the bad news, but I've uncovered a many of them attached to Bitcoin via my stupid re-search of TW. Some of them being early adapters. Also, other early members are/were involved with WOW Gold and/or practice some form of occult.

What is the TW you are referring to?


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: herzmeister on September 03, 2011, 06:47:11 PM

Some of them being early adapters.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/ISA-Bus.jpg/800px-ISA-Bus.jpg


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: cypherdoc on September 03, 2011, 07:27:43 PM
BTW, did you know the guy who is current President of the Brookings Institute for the last 10 years approx. is a known Skull & Bonesman. Talbott, Strobe - NO FUCKING SURPRISE, RIGHT? The piece of shit bastard Masons and scam artist politicians and fraudulent bankster scumbags!

Talbott, Nelson Strobridge III (b. 1946) — also known as Strobe Talbott — of Ohio. Born in 1946. U.S. Ambassador to , 1993-94. Member, Skull and Bones. Still living as of 1994.

http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/talbott.html#393.42.74



Hate to break the bad news, but I've uncovered a many of them attached to Bitcoin via my stupid re-search of TW. Some of them being early adapters. Also, other early members are/were involved with WOW Gold and/or practice some form of occult.

What is the TW you are referring to?


he's referring to some "Tom Williams" digging that he's done.  claims he's dug up alot of dirt on several forum members here.  no specifics though.


Title: Re: These guys are UNBELIEVABLE. The Brookings Institution weighs in.
Post by: LightRider on September 04, 2011, 02:05:38 AM

I never really trusted the ISA slot, to be honest.