Bitcoin Forum

many investors only invested into bitcoin because they hope for huge value increases, but since bitcoin is now stagnating and even losing in value,

due to the hart competition in the industry,

many will drop bitcoin and cointinue to drop it, because the ponzi scheme high returns at the beginning of bitcoins cannot be delivered anymore.

regards

Bitcoin won`t die,if the greedy investors leave.It will continue to exist,but with a way lower price and lower price volatility.I think that bitcoin has a better chance to evolve and succeed,without all those investors.
What do you mean by "hard competition in the industry"?Do you mean competition in BTC mining?

when the greedy investors leave, that drive and power bitcoins spectacular value, bitcoin users become just a small sect, similar like star wars fan freaks, they wont be even honest, goodwilling and reasonable investors, they will simply be some kind of fanatics, that glorify bitcoin.

Uhhhh what?

You clearly haven't experienced the multitude of bad luck and dead cat bounces during 2014-2015. Most people during that time lost faith on bitcoin and called it a dead coin, while the remaining ones believed that it still has a chance. Most successful investors in bitcoin accumulated while everyone is yapping and scare-mongering. They remained to do so until bitcoin showed signs of life starting Q3 2016. The trolls kept on thinking that it's nothing but a mere dead-cat bounce, until it gained traction and the die-hard pessimists suddenly turned into bulls. With the amount of infrastructures created around bitcoin and money invested on it, do you really think that they'd let their money-making machine die? No, not a chance.

I do agree its not about investors the huge manipulation is done by whales they are making strategy whether pump or dump the bitcoin . Lots of people entering crypto space to become millionaire in over night . Recent trend shows people who entered crypto currency in 2018 got huge losses .

So you think when no one is speculating on bitcoin, it's going to die?
I don't subscribe to the view,becaust bitcoin has intrinsic value and should be used for cross-border payments.

NO, if that happens we will get rid of scammers and greedy fools who have no Idea that Bitcoin is actually a currency - people will stop hodling and use Bitcoin more as a currency.

I dont think that greed is the main key ingridient for bitcoins resistance to the fall and dominance in the market. Yes there are many greedy investors but I think there are alot of investors who are just there to be able to produce income for a betted living for their love ones and family.

Really its possible  bitcoin dies if the investors greed is not fulfilled because investors are the one who gives life that bitcoin always rise.

Every time the market falls, I see similar reports that the market has died and the end of everything  ;D

Bitcoin can never die,  not at this stage. What's happened now is a market reversal. Am telling you things will be stable and more investors will come in.  A greedy person is not even needed in investment.  If you are a greedy time, you are not suppose to even near cryptocurrencies investment. A great investors are those that are patience.

of course the problem is "opportunism"

when bitcoin stops generating a hype and a potential run which it is increasingly doing,

bitcoin becomes nothing but a risky asset,

which will make many want to leave it, the hype then will continue to fall.

Of course you will have greedy people, you have them everywhere. Let their hopes to die out. Because honestly it is better to have slower growth than fast one because then we enter bear market because of course price has to correct itself. I think that many people though bitcoin "died out" during 2013 and as we can see it slowly build its place up. I honestly do not think bitcoin will die out that easily as there are people who are mining, run nodes and the ones who are willing to transact no matter the price.

Bitcion will not die because there's is an investor who's did not greedy contented of  fair profits and they're looking for many bounty  dependers.

I actually think of it in the other way, I think that bitcoin can continue to grow as long as there is a demand and that there is a need for it to be there. With bitcoin in place I do believe that some of the greed of the people are not thoroughly satisfied especially if they can see that values of bitcoin can go up even if it has a history of breaking down and volatility. Bitcoin is a very risky game and the more it entices the more it can garner value

Yes many investor are invest their high percentage of capital in bitcoin and honestly because we hope for the price increases.
But if many people would try to drop their bitcoin, i think it will not  die, because for me it will still exists but in a lower price.

bitcoin shot to fame due to its ideolisms of 2009-2013. but slowly the utility, benefits, purposes of bitcoin that made up those ideolisms has eroded away. it has changed from a ideolistic asset to a risky gamble

think about all the ideologies bitcoin had before 2013
barrierless:-
people could earn bitcoin without a bank account and without ID. via:
   selling goods for bitcoin*(fee war stopped it being used to buy novalty goods/daily life stuff like toilet roll and baked beans)
   runnng a node using their own GPU (ASICS stopped it being earned by normal people)
   going to a store and paying cash and getting it swapped for btc without ID(exchange AMLKYC stoped it)

virtually free/low fee:-
people could get small amounts without worrying about the tx fee
   it used to be better than some developed countries banking system (UK now offers FREE wire transfers same day usually in under 10 minutes)
   there used to be a fee priority formulae and idea's to improve it(core instead removed the fee formulae and left it open to a fee war)
   the fee used to be fractions of a penny (now tx fee is above some developing countries minimum wage)

decentralised:-
people used to have their own nodes that they could make themselves and be allowed to run on the network and make their own proposals for new features and use consensus to decide if the community wanted it
   (now its core controlling the proposals and any node that has a proposal that core have not roadmapped get bilaterally split/REKT to avoid a consensus)
   (its now classed as distributed ledger technology. not decentralised blockchain. even the main paid devs of core have started to admit they prefer DLT buzzword)

a currency cannot be a sustainable store of value(asset) purely for the buzz of store of value. there has to be a reason behind the store of value.
yes fiat is not gold backed. but it is minimum wage and tax backed. EG in america a $10 is about 1 hour 20 minutes of minimum wage, and people see that value of it as that once they are truly asked the dep question about how they value a $10 bank note. in short someone having $10 see's it valued at 1 hour 20 minutes sweat equity

if bitcoin has backed value, its not going to be a store of value. and just becomes a speculative gamble.
i have recently only valued bitcoin based on its mining cost "sewat equity"
same with gold. gold would only be $1 if it only cost $1 to mine an ounce. but because gold costs $1k+ to mine an ounce. and gold has ideolism of curuit boards, jewellery utility. gold has more of a stable, les risky and more sustainable asset AND commodity classification.
bitcoin doesnt have commodity classification and its asset values are eroding. all thats left is its "sweat equity" and greed

with all that said. tulips today still exist. but not at the same prices as a few centuries ago

Many people also allege that bitcoin toying with investors, so many investors are losing money. I do not think the word is worth saying, because it is clear that bitcoin investment is different from ordinary investment, bitcoin investment is not just waiting, but we need a strategy about when to "buy" and when to "sell".

In agreement with your argument, investors are willing to invest in Bitcoin, which is mainly the growth value of Bitcoin. Now that Bitcoin is volatile, some people will give up Bitcoin because they have not made a profit.

Hey man, you see like you have good knowledge and by being one of the old members of this forum I guess you are right with your thoughts and have decent knowledge about the space by being so long in it. Since you are negative towards BTC, do you see any alternative out there that is better than bitcoin and why would you tell that. I mean there are many altocins that provides very low fee or yet some have no fees so problem is not there, mostly others are decentralzied but I am not sure which should feel your ideologies. What are your thoughts on for instance : etherem? I see them being centralized by dev team but other aspects look promissing. Are there any other alt you feel could be a good fit to replace bitcoin someday in the future?

Late last year the was a buzz bout bitcoin,which I had predicted would more than double the number of investors to bitcoin..Bt I was wrong,majority of the people out there r sceptical bout the coin.Most governments r calling it a ponzi..this year will be hard on bitcoin holders

Unfortunately your statement falls apart, because Bitcoin does not only exist for the main purpose of satisfying speculators. There are a lot of businesses that are generating income from Bitcoin as a payment option for their goods and services and they are fuelling the demand for the coin.

We always see these negative threads when the Bitcoin price decrease, so this is not even strange anymore. We are still positive that speculative trading only takes a small potion of the activity in this technology. Bitcoin businesses and true believers in the technology are the foundations of this experiment.  ;)

Sounds so bad, but anyway that.. of course not really yet make sure that bitcoin is getting helpless, it could be just in some certain place/certain country. Come on.. such statements only make people become hesitant/afraid till weaken of confidence in bitcoin, due anyhow out there still many factors or other things that can affect it becomes higher/climbing. I think support is still there, and it wouldn't die easily.

bunch of noobs crashed in hoping for lambos within a few months .... these people have weak hands and are being shaken out hard leaving in some cases with less than 50% of their investment

btc is progressing forward nicely in terms of adoption and acceptance

most alts are over hyped shit that blow up tps numbers whilst sacrificing security and becoming more centralised

there are a handful of good alts that will survive long term with btc (most of these are not even in the top 20)

these noobs are easy to manipulate so there are some large swings either way but as more real investors and institutional money enters these will flatten out.

most lose money trading in any other market and the same will be true for the crypto market.... those short periods where everyone is making money together of course can not last. If you are not a pro trader nor long term student of crypto then just stick with btc and risk no more than 20-30% gambling on alts.

the negativity from most people on here is not genuine it is simply because they have very little or zero btc and are understandably upset about this.

Die is a strong word.

I imagine traders are going to want to stay away because it's going to be hard to profit, but holders who have already taken out significant returns are likely to stay and let their money sleep for a while. I wouldn't say stagnancy will kill Bitcoin, but it could very set adoption back, if nothing else. Merchants are willing to accept Bitcoin payments because of the increasing number of holders, so that number dropping could also hold back merchant acceptance. Purists and enthusiasts, of which there are quite a few, won't bat an eyelash to this.

That being said, everyone will be rushing back once Bitcoin is ready for primetime, so I don't mind. Utility that rivals that of Visa, et al., which is the end game, will be the driver to true adoption anyway.

unfortunately your statement falls apart. because merchants accepting bitcoin is on the decline. there is an increase of blockchain and DLT investment businesses and an increase of ICO "cough businesses" but the adoption of bitcoins UTILITY is in decline.

this is why bitpay and coinbase are adding support for different coin types as merchant tool services because merchants accepting bitcoin HAS dclined and bitpay/coinbase are having to diversify to try retaining some merchants.

but as you say and the devs say.. "this experiment". which aftr 9 years devs and yourself do not have true solid belief in it to call it a fully fledged consumer ready currency.. dvs still call it a beta test experimnt. which is also a flaw that should have been filled and solidified years ago

P.S i actually have a hoard not touched since 2013. and yes i do detest what the core devs have done to erode the ideolisms/utility/features/benefits of bitcoin. this does not make me a bitcoin hater. it makes me a core hater and a realist. i do not kiss ass and i do not suck up to any devs. i also dont scream out utopian dreams and falsehoods.

Bitcoin won't die, greedy investors only affect the price for a moment is not forever. The main factor that affects the price of the person behind the bitcoin itself. While  new investor keep on appear

Let's be sensible with countries like japan and germany actually recognising it as a form of payment and other EU countries introducing very reasonable tax rates there is lots of positive movement for crypto. There was always going to be some choked off due to any kind of regulation/taxation.

ICO's are mostly a bunch of failed start ups that couldn't get funding anywhere other than leeching the fomo surrounding crypto.  They have brought the most negativity to this arena above anything else with the bottom suddenly dropping out of them or just being full scams from the outset. Even the most successful ones are simply selling snake oil with higher tps and less security and becoming more centralised. There are a handful of exceptions.

BTC is the prime currency and will remain so. To much real investment behind it now ...eth if its move to pos is a huge success could be a serious contender but since it is so complex will always be open to issues and I think those wanting greater investment security will not move from btc to eth.

It is also good to see some other big players coming in on the miner production like samsung etc

The current wild swings will of course push out some vendors from accepting it right now.... this is a transition phase from the wild west to a regulated system more suitable for institutional investment and widespread adoption.

The big picture for btc and crypto is very bright at this point.

Actually it is far exceeding my expectations regarding governmental acceptance and readiness to work with crypto in most of the developed nations.

The fall in the price of the currency is natural. Even the dollar has inflation. But recently bitcoin has poor statistics. On this you can lose a lot of money

emphasis on CRYPTO.

BTC is not as bright as 2013. sorry but the reality is clear on that. i prefer to be brutal and talk about the reality and then if people are still interested, great. but over hyping something and over promising something actually does not help. as it just makes people think they have been deceived and they then start telling others how its not as described.

i would rather point out the flaws and then if everyone sees them. everyone can help fill them.. than to pretend there are no flaws and have poeople jumping over them and getting tripped up and the flaws never getting filled

greed = over hyping, over promising. hiding flaws. and mentioning the 10 minutes event of a ATH as if its a price that everyone gets to reach and grab any time they like

i think whats best is to under promise and reveal the flaws and to mention the lows.
EG
the price of bitcoin did NOT drop below $350 in 2016
the price of bitcoin did NOT drop below $950 in 2017
the price of bitcoin did NOT drop below $6500 in 2018

that way everyone can see the benefit of the price and can actually get something from those prices..
mentioning the $20k one minute event is meaningless

i would sugest people stop screaming out the tip of the purple mountain below, and instead talk about the green fields of stability below
https://i.imgur.com/xA5ZznH.png

the green line is the LOW's which show where real growth is found on value of where people refuse to sell below

I don't agree, I believe the reality for btc in 2018 is far brighter than in 2013. I never thought governments would accept btc as a mode of payment that they recognise and try to work with with quite sensible taxation and regulation. I had thought when crypto reached such a market cap there would be a clamp down hard on it.



 

you already said it twice: many not all. and it is not that many either. it is some and the rest of the investors know better to fall for this manipulation like an idiot.

LOL, you sound like one of the biggest idiots so far ;)


this part was the best part so i had to cut it out to laugh at it separately :D
you can keep on dreaming and bag holding your shitcoin thinking it is "competing" with bitcoin and continue losing money for doing that ;D

Well why new investors are in, its all because of the money, of greed. That's who we call the weak hands. The moment bitcoin falls below the price they bought it gor greedy people with weak hands lets go of their bitcoin and strong hands gets to buy it. The more these coinns falls to strong hands, the more its gonna make the prkce of bitcoin goes up. If people hold their coins by the time it drops, it helps the bitcoin price. If we sell when it drops, it hurts the price.

what your mistaking is that the regulations have not actually changed. government regulations are just ensuring that businesses handling fiat as part of their business get registered as money businesses.

this is rules that have been around for decades.

as for any new changes like the bitlicence.. this has not been a removal of a barrier. it has been creating a barrier not by government but by local area agencies. i guess you dont want to talk about or reveal the number of bitcoin businesses that have stopped serving american/NY customers due to it.

also regulations are not good for users. a regulation is not really a consumer protection.. its not where government polices a business. a rgulation is allowiing a business to operate if the business writes its own policy on how that business will police its own customers. and then charge that business a huge fee for the right to operate and police its customers.

yea yea, you are going to spew nonsense and alot of hype that being "regulated" is like being given a nice shiny gold star that says "we professionals" but in reality its not really worth the paper its printed on

if the government actually cared and were super positive and wanted to do something to help reduce crime and reduce corruption. they would make new consumer protection laws. and then a business with consumer protection insurance and meeting certain consumer quality care standards would get a badge that meant something.

but yea. you will just say anything to hyp something just to try getting the price up.. but not care about the infrustructure, utility/purposes of bitcoin.

again .. if people stopped thinking of the greed of a price rise. and thought about the sustainability and utility/function/purpose. which would then make for a maore stable and healthy long term investment. things would be different.

but all im readiing is hype, hiding flaws hoping it will cause just one more ATH so those already invested can exit with more FIAT than they entered with.
if your only measure of success is hiding flaws in the hopes of hyping a price. then you have the mind of the greedy. which is not sustainable

I dont think it would die.. Because it has already been use as an exchange or other words as a digital currency..

BTC is always risky investment, for sure not at the beginning when price is so low that you can buy 500 BTC for 1$, but even then some people think it's a waste of money. Today situation is a lot different, to buy 1 BTC for ordinary people is generally too expensive, and big investors do not invest their money so easily in something with so high volatility.

I still think that's pretty foolish to bury BTC once more just because price is not 10 000$, but "only" 7400$ today. Bitcoin is still at an early stage, just a 9 years old project, my opinion is that it may take another 9 years that things sit in their place.

From small scale investors to large volume transactions makers have the greed to make a big earning. This is the common nature of the human. Another thing, rather than greed it is good to mention it as trust. Because, the growth has already occurred and once again it is to provide assured growth with time making investors to expect more.

I think you are wrong though. Regulation is essential to prevent manipulation and collusion. The crypto market right now is still wide open to such things and those will need to be addressed especially icos. Regulations have changed because before there were very few regulations specifically for crypto. As more countries set in stone regulations specifically for dealing with crypto there will be more confidence for institutional money to creep in.

Although to be honest if we ever achieved a decentralised trustless arena end to end including decentralised exchanges (which are the weak link right now) you could chop away a lot of regulation. If anything that could be made trustless and decentralised was made so then you could shrink the need for regulation by a huge amount. Of course we are still miles away from this.


 If governments wanted rid they would be bringing in far more extreme tax measures or just outright banning it like some less developed countries have. Of course they would rather have their own centralised blockchains but really they can not compete with a global decentralised blockchain like btc. Decentralised trustless environments are game changers and the efficiency of them is going to increase over time as the kinks are ironed out. The smart countries recognise this and are not going to be left behind.

Of course for now there is a long way to go but all things considered they are going much better than I expected.

I'm not really sure if you expected bitcoin to become mainstream and adopted as an accepted form of currency or mode of payment without regulation or if you are just saying that.

There are indeed flaws but I think things are going rather well for crypto especially btc regarding governmental acceptance and regulation.

I actually like bitbay just as much as btc and like their DDE idea if that took off with decentralised exchanges then we could really start reaching a stage where middle men and regulations are really rolled back.

Regulations are supposed to be there to protect the customer but in a real trustless decentralised environment that is not needed.

People have been saying this exact same thing since 2011 and there's nothing to indicate that it's true. The cycles are definitely real, but it's a bit silly to invoke the 'ponzi' word. I guess I see what you're saying with 'ponzi high returns', but then you can just apply that to anything with high returns regardless of whether it really qualifies as a ponzi. Which of course Bitcoin does not.

if you say that bitcoin is ponzi, then you are wrong. bitcoin is different from onechain and bitcoin is different from javacoin.

then you should also know that bitcoin often suffers death, then bitcoin gets up again.

bitcoin does not lose value, but bitcoin just needs positive support for high again.

No, it will not die what do you see today is only a trial downtrend is normal it will rise again soon anyway just like the other months only patience is what we need, there are trials but there are no failures.

no you are wrong bitcoin is a shitcoin, it does nothing, it impoverishes everyone, and it cannot survive without other central currencies, which substance it attacks like a cancer. see electricity theft in china.

If you call BTC shitcoin, does that mean that the rest of cryptocurrency goes to the same category? It seems to me that you were quite disappointed with the current development of events and the price, based on last year price many were expecting at least 50 000$ by mid this year. Suddenly BTC is become shitcoin&ponzi, but I guess most of buyers above 15 000$ level have a similar opinion as you do.

It is normal that financial system which currently exists trying to discredit BTC and cryptocurrency in general, this is quite a normal occurrence. But what is theft of electricity in China have with BTC, most of miners are moving from there anyway, and electricity consumption consumed by all BTC miners in the world per year is 0.5 % of total electricity consumption, more or less.

exactly Bitcoin will not die even when left the investors, but Bitcoin will continue to exist and its value will go down.

but I'm sure if Bitcoin is much in use and much in buy, then Bitcoin will rise in its price.

Greedy investors will only push the price of Bitcoin, but there is no progress on the development of Bitcoin, and most investors believe that the price of Bitcoin will keep rising. It is the programmers who really focus on technology, but they need to live. The price of Bitcoin can bring them benefits.

what?yeah theres greedy investors that only wanted a quick profit and dont bother about anything,but i believe that many users now are interested in the technology behind every project and thats why bitcoin will never die,price decreases because of fluctuation and the volatility but it doesnt mean it will stay as this because recovery follows every fall and thats the nature of cryptocurrency

No it won't die, it'll actually be used for its intended purpose. Everyone forgets that it's first use is as a currency before an investment.

totally agree on that :)

Um...no? I mean:

It's true, that there a lot of heavy players out there with tons of BTC and they can very well manipulate the market. If they are smart, they will not dump all of it.

It's also true, that crypto (not BTC only) is evolving every day, so such people might migrate to these alt-coins and leave their BTC here

What ponzi scheme? BTC distribution will change (which is good), intrinsic value will remain.

Unless everybody and anybody sells their BTC, nothing bad will happen. Not everybody is in the game to make short-term profits :)

I somehow agree with you. Even when some greedy investors will leave, bitcoin will stay remain because I believe most investors in here are pretty smart. They are knowledgeable enough to know that dumping their bitcoin whereas the situation of it is not good will only bring them a great lost. Also, bitcoin is first created to be a currency not as an investment.

The moment bitcoin falls below the price they bought it gor greedy people with weak hands lets go of their bitcoin and strong hands gets to buy it. The more these coinns falls to strong hands, the more its gonna make the prkce of bitcoin goes up. If people hold their coins by the time it drops, it helps the bitcoin price. If we sell when it drops, it hurts the price.  i believe that many users now are interested in the technology behind every project and thats why bitcoin will never die,price decreases because of fluctuation and the volatility but it doesnt mean it will stay as this because recovery follows every fall and thats the nature of cryptocurrency

yepp. People only care about profit, is speculation, not investment. I myself am, and I still have faith in this market.