Bitcoin Forum

After the new 24 hours rule for deleting posts some of my suggestions are now outdated but the others are still applicable and useful from my point of view. I have updated the list with the required changes. Please let me know what you think.

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In the fight with the bots we need more data and some tools too :)
The bumping bots are really annoying. I was trying to report something from the Patrol page but the post was already deleted, and the user has 0 posts to report, so I have to write a PM to the Mods of fill lists with proof. This happens almost all the time in the Patrol page.  Outdated now.
Here are some suggestions I have, hope you guys will support me or at least discuss the matter to find appropriate solution.

• As I said in the Subject - UserLog- where all deleted posts are listed with a timestamp / can be access-controlled same as the Report History/ fixed

• Report to Mod button directly from the Profile page- When they have 0 posts you cannot report them, you have to write a list with abusers or send a PM to the mods. Outdated now.

• Report to Mod button from the Profile post history - sometimes people have more than 1 post to report in the history.  NEW

• Report to Mod button in the search results of the search engine

This is important for me while reporting homographs and posts in other languages in the English sections.  Updated

• If the UserLog is too much work to do, then maybe a data dump with all deleted posts within 5 min after posting Outdated now.

• Patrol page option to be toggled automatically ON when users reach Member rank. More people should be involved in reporting, we are not enough to fight all the bots alone.

• Maybe add chaptcha when deleting posts Outdated now.

[/list]

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Edited : the first, the third and  the last point can be restricted up to the Jr.Members only because the problem lies there.

If you have no idea what BOT ACTIVITY is, see below...


The solution is here :

[/list]

Keep a list of them or post them in Meta. I've been monitoring which threads this is happening in and locking the threads.


This might be a good idea.

Yes, I have a list but i'm also trying to put a proof for each account, so print screens, editing, uploading. It takes time just to post the proof. If we have a UserLog then I can refer to it as a proof, so both Me and you can be more efficient and not wasting time on bots.
Seems like it take more time to report a bot profile then to make one, well not for LoyceV, of course ;)
I should make a script too when I get more free time to concentrate on it.

As much as I like that, there's still the possibility competitors will use this to get rid of competition.
You've seen my thread [Mods: NUKE 30 act] Commercial Spambots post and delete 1000s of posts per day (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3955810.0;all), only 1 out of 5 reported threads has been locked (I'm not sure if that was done by Mods or by the thread owner).

I already have such a script :P
All I need as input is the thread URL with active bumping bots, linking directly to the last page, and the number of legit unique posters on the last page. I'll run my script for an hour, and report back. Feel free to post some links. Feel free to PM me a list of URLs.
I don't bother taking screenshots, an Admin can check deleted posts if there is any doubt.

@hilariousandco: if you're willing to go after them, I'll gladly improve my script to count how many times a certain account deletes a post. I was even thinking of automating it to search unread posts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=unread): in 6 seconds, 12 threads got bumped. Many of those must be bump bots, so my plan is to make a script that takes the last x threads, then checks the last page of each, and reports bump bots when found. But I'll only go through the hassle if someone is willing to nuke a very long list.

Update: bump bots are changing their pattern too, see here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3616790.msg39039267#msg39039267) for instance: many new accounts, created on the same day, post a random oneliner and don't delete it. Or maybe much later. The whole Altcoin section feels infested.

And there is of course the join airdrop (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4338325.340) spam which is a great loophole for bumping a thread.

Actually mprep's sticky banning low effort task deals with that (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3953664.0) however I don't think that is actually enforced since it would mean 99% of the tasks would be removed since they all encourage similar low effort shitposting

Thanks, I hadn't seen that update yet. It would be great if that can be enforced, to claim back the Altcoin board from the spammers.

I've suggested a "reset" before: close all threads, and strictly enforce the rules from then onward, including instant (temporary) bans for anybody who spams. That way, most people will get the hint that spam days are over.

That won't work, as bump bots use hundreds or even thousands of different accounts. A normal user won't delete many posts, and reCAPTCHA requires only one click if you use it only a few times per day from a clean IP.

Here is an example of what BOT ACTIVITY is >

Go to this ANN page https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4329385.80
Open the last comment and refresh every 3 second...
Just watch the activity...

The bot activity there is insane:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2103423
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123469
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2103409
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2103412
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123325
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123329
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123335
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123345
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123419
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123452
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2154951
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2098108
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145765
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145768
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145750
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145571
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145666
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2102089
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123301

Those guys posted and deleted their message in a matter of 3-4 minutes, I barely had time to open their profile in a new link hit refresh, another one was waiting..
There is no way to report them in time and catch them all with the current report method.

Bring in some captcha or ban accounts lower than junior to delete their posts.

They are doing the same thing in those threads:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330327.60
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3616790.680

Always from brand new accounts and always at the top of the Announcements (Altcoins) board...

Here is the video I made >
image loading...
https://i.imgur.com/lpsZpVq.gif
https://i.imgur.com/lpsZpVq.gif (https://i.imgur.com/lpsZpVq.gif) / I though that I can embed gifs here but../

_____________thread ________________________        Views / Replies = activity rate
1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3564382.0 rate 84666 /284  = ~298
2) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3059631.0 rate 77984 / 284 = ~274
3) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3291145.0 rate 33105 / 94 = ~352
4) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2360707.0 rate 31336 / 105 = ~298

I have compiled a list of thread for you. In these topics use a bot to increase views(or used)
why do I think so?
because there can not be so few messages and so many views

As you can see, the activity rate in all topics almost coincides. Or is this a coincidence? I do not think so

They use exactly 30 different newbie accounts per thread. I'll process the threads when I have time later tonight.

Update: all unlocked threads mentioned here have been reported by me already.

The forum should take a look at Google's new reCaptcha v3 https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/docs/v3

There isn't much information I could find on in it but it looks like it is designed for this sort of job. You define certain actions and then give them a score of 0-10 for good or bad then it uses the total score to define if something is a bot. So I think if you define posting and then deleting immediately as bad action and it should take care of bump bots.

As I understand, these bump bots are not spamming randomly but they (the farmer of them) are paid to have a few topics on the top of the thread, to gain more visibility...
What happens if we just ban all the newbie users who post in that topic and after deletes that post? If there's no post (0 post count) than there's nothing that the newbie can lose, so I have no problem with banning them.
This will make the farmers to create new account for every bump post, which will not worth the effort, I guess. And I'm not sure, but I guess they are smart enough not to use the same IP to create those new accounts, so I don't have any idea yet how to restrict the creation of the new bumping accounts...

I think how I'd prefer to handle it is to prevent deleting posts within 24 hours of posting them, in the problematic sections only. Which sections are problematic?

I kinda expect them to just leave their spam much longer, but that can happen with all possible solutions for this problem.

I've confirmed bump bots in:
-Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Announcements (Altcoins) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=159.0)
-Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Announcements (Altcoins) > Tokens (Altcoins) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=240.0)
-Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Marketplace (Altcoins) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2579775.180)

I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.

Yes, I can also confirm for those 3 plus I saw one or two in the bounty section some time ago, but I have to focus on that section for a while to be sure and have a proof.

Goods + child boards, and Services.

would applying the same time limits of posting to deletion deter or lessen this behavior?
make post deletion part of time-constraint activity, but it will be ineffective if the spammer has high rank :-\

As LoyceV and malevolent said probably all sections where exposure means money, and if some of those hadn't been affected yet it doesn't mean they will never be.



I think a 24 hour limit in the altcoin section will be enough but it won't matter in other sections.
It all comes to how much bumping you need for your topic to stay on the first page, in Tokens,  the difference is 14 minutes, Announcements (Altcoins)  is just 6 minutes,  in Marketplace (Altcoins) around 2 hours and a half and in most of the others stays around 2hours (at this time, when I'm posting).

So bumping might get unnoticed in some topics but it is going to be detectable in altcoin, they would have to flood the topic with more than 200 replies and leave them there, far too obvious...


Hmm,


So, posts like this one:

are against the new rules?
I want to make sure before I get banned for flood reporting  ;D ;D ;D

OK, the 24-hour limit is now in place in the sections that people mentioned.

Thanks :D

This is going to be fun if bots aren't updated yet :D Look here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2579775.280;topicseen) for example, posts are piling up. I'm very eager to see what it looks like in a few hours!

Or this guy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3801788.msg39164842#msg39164842) doing an early bump, then editing his old post after it showed the same thing twice.

Look at this post history (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2165037;sa=showPosts), or any of the other Newbies who now have 4 posts in 30 minutes in that thread. I hope Mods will check those threads within the next 24 hours, and nuke many accounts before they can delete it again.

I had a look at the mentioned topic...
First I thought that these bots have a list of posts they can randomly put into any of the topics, but I think they are just somehow select a post from the forum randomly and post it elsewhere...
If it's not the case, why on earth a newbie with 6 activity would post like he was the dev of the ANN thread?
Archive (http://archive.is/7B93z)

I anticipate that one way users will try to circumvent this is by editing the posts now instead: rather than deleting posts themselves, the bots can edit the posts to contain reportable garbage (i.e. single letter, whitespace characters, etc.) and have some other account report the posts.

Provided that a moderator looks at it within 24-hours (someone would probably test to see the staff activity of the section) this allows for deletion (albeit much slower than before).

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This does give us some more to work with if we consider the report and post history of Newbies (if those are the accounts they're using) since you could potentially nuke them as well but it seems like it would be a lot of work.

Implementing the captcha might not work if someone simply uses a captcha-solver.

Thank you theymos for the quick reaction, hope that it will have some impact on this madness.
I'm very glad that finally some actions are taken and all the reports and time spent here chasing the rule-breakers is not wasted.

They've already switched to a new tactic. Okay, maybe not a new tactic, but I can't find many pages using the same account to post many times in the same thread. My guess is instead of using 30 accounts to bump 1 thread, they now use 300 accounts to bump 10 threads.

Example: 🔥🔥🔥🔥 [ANN] [ICO] [Airdrop] Ethereum Private 🔥🔥🔥🔥 Private, faste and more (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4392734.0) was created yesterday, and already has 500+ posts like this:

Can't they all just be banned?

Hardly a new tactic this has been happening with the exact same phrases for months. I remember seeing this particular phrase months ago:
And the rest of the quotes which involve the word "revolution". That's alright it's much easier to manage now that they can't instantly delete their posts. Anything with the name "airdrop" naturally brings in more of these bots, and low quality posts.

That thread is literally a drop in the ocean as there's multiple other threads that are being spammed just like it.

Those just seem to be bounty/account farmers as opposed to paid bump bots. If all their posts are just generic crap like that report them and I'll ban them.

If all the above quoted one liners are considered generic crap, and we start to report in the Altcoin discussion, you'll end up banning the whole thread in a weekend :)
Seriously, if they are not bump bots but just "normal" bounty hunters / farmed accounts, why all of the accounts on the page (http://archive.is/7B93z (http://archive.is/7B93z)) had just 5 or 6 activities that time? Is it possible that new bump bot accounts are registered for every day/week/topic etc?

These sorts of replies have been going on for months in conjunction with the bump bots that delete their posts. This isn't something new, and people have been reporting them. There's just simply too many to catch. It's also common for newbies to be interested in airdrops, and that's why it's common to find users with very small amounts of activity.

It could be intentional bumping, but I wouldn't say these particular ones are bots.

I locked that thread earlier until I get an explanation. I think they've likely been told to post in that thread as a bounty requirement.


You're linking to a completely different thread there. Those are probably bots but not the ones I quoted above.

what will happen if I move my post threads, delete my old pump and back it to that sections?
Edit:
my wrong

You can't move a post. You can only move threads, and that's only if you're the thread-starter.

Sorry but this solution seems easy to circumvent.
1. I bump my thread ------> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388735.msg39286694#msg39286694 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388735.msg39286694#msg39286694)
2. click move topic and move it to a board that does not have these restrictions.
3. delete my old bump.
4. make a new bump.
6. move my thread to  Services -----> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388735.msg39286694#msg39286694 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388735.msg39286694#msg39286694)

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use this site (https://i.imgur.com/lpsZpVq.gif) to edit https://i.imgur.com/lpsZpVq.gif (https://i.imgur.com/lpsZpVq.gif) into PNG

It's much easier: in my self-moderated topic, I can't delete my own post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1813624.msg39441535#msg39441535), but I could delete my alt (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=949024)'s post.
The only complication for the bump bots will be to attach a bot to the account that created the topic.

Update: it's happening already: User using self-moderated thread to bypass 24h to delete post in altcoin board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4651497.0)

I've updated the list with suggestion, hoping for some feedback.

It seems Marketplace (Altcoins) > Bounties (Altcoins) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=238.0) was forgotten, this was posted and deleted many times:
Can you add this board to the 24h deleting restriction?

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This was posted many times in Pyccкий (Russian) > Aльтepнaтивныe кpиптoвaлюты (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=72.0):

I'm not sure how often this happens on Russian boards.

I have detected a thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286586.0) in the Invites and Accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=234.0) sub that is removing (https://loyce.club/archive/topics/528/5286586.html) multiple bumps per day. Today he bumped his thread 4x, and appears to be testing the limits as to how frequently he can bump his thread going from bumping 3x per day on the 20th, and bumping at least that frequently every day since.

Would it be possible to have the invites sub restricted to prevent users from deleting posts similarly to the other problematic sections?

eta: I sent a PM to the offending user bringing the rule to his attention.

edit2: found another thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5201817.0) that has been consistently bumping (https://loyce.club/archive/topics/520/5201817.html) his thread 3-4x per day for months.

edit3:
There are other ways to detect bump spam with more precision, even if they is more time between bumps ;)