Bitcoin Forum

https://www.google.co.uk/finance

Anyone watching the financials like I am? It's great to finally be exposed to this kind of thing properly, interestingly the S&P 500 is one of the only ones that's still in the green which may be the work of the Federal Reserve and the Nasdaq looks pretty flat.

I think this year is going to be a great one for cryptocurrencies, I can't wait to see the mass panic begin like with 2008 :P  < *evil* this year I'm determined to make a lot of money from it.

Yeah, I've been watching closely too.

Have you looked at the Nikkei lately? Wow.

Hyperinflation at it's finest, only a few weeks ago all the news networks were ranting about a recovery :P

Through cryptos alone? Or are there other ways to benefit from 2008 like turmoil?

Gold and Silver are another option but crypto's are more realistic for someone like me because it's very expensive to get into those commodities, but basically owning anything that has actual value, I suspect even grain and livestock is going to appreciate at one point because there will be so much panic it will be the equivalent of a city being under siege.

Commodities are good long term, but they'll actually drop on the short term as the market contracts. I plan to buy more on the dip. Day trading have a look at FAZ.NYSE and DXD.NYSE, but yes, you need a decent amount of money to make it worth your while. Crypto is amazing because there's no fixed minimum transaction fee, unlike stocks. I am spending a little too much time looking at zerohedge at the moment, but it's kind of exciting watching this insane machine melt down. At least this time around we have cryptocurrencies to hold it all together =D

It's not expensive at all to get into gold and silver. www.goldmoney.com for example allows you to buy small amounts and store them for you.

They are debt free and their reserves are independently auidet. You can store in many different countries so the counterparty risk here is very low.

It's not that bad (yet) so far it's normal. I would love to see a global stock market and housing crash in 2014

I want it to wait as long as possible. The more time you have to stock up the better, but I doubt the game can go on for many more years.

Hrmm, seems zerohedge are saying that the world will end today just like they said yesterday.

Now is always a good time to panic!

TBH, buying my own apartment is the next big step in my life, thus a housing crash would be very much anticipated :D

Absolutely, but the nice thing about paranoid people is they do all your research for you! I don't think it's that bad yet, but there is another massive credit bubble waiting to pop at the moment. Realising that it's started a few days ahead of most people could be profitable.

eh wot?

U got that wrong.

Hyperinflation is great for stock prices. This is fed tapering.

Oh dear, you're definitely going to lose money, all hyperinflation does is give stock prices a temporary boost and then it all comes crashing down ^_^

Also, the fed hasn't tapered, if you looked at what they actually said they're continuing the money printing but on a smaller scale, so all they're doing is trying to make it last longer, they haven't actually stopped it in the slightest, it's the equivalent of what the politicians keep doing with the debt ceiling.

A big crash is always a possibility to make some money ^^ I'd say gold, silver and cryptocurrencies all would react in the same way: rocketing. Also it gives a possibility to buy some cheap stocks.

+100

I totally hear what you are saying!

I have been loosely expecting this since 2008, but watching very closely like a hawk since June 2013. For sure, we have never been so close to the edge before (since 2008). This feels very, very scary... if you are not invested in PMs and cryptos, ha ha ha!

Emerging market currencies falling strongly, and I have a very bad feeling about the stock market too. I can't believe the FED tapered, maybe they are really not that evil, but just simply plain stupid. Incredible and fascinating.

Look out for increased QE in 2014 for sure!


+1

How will this affect Bitcoin price?

It will shoot us into another galaxy.

Actually, what we are experiencing is not hyperinflation at its finest, but monetizing at its finest.

We are not at an hyperinflational level (yet). And yes, it's generally good for stocks, just as the last years up have been liquidity-driven - but at some point it all comes crashing down, and we might be close to that point.

The FED has definitely tapered, and it looks like it is having a big effect.

Definitely interesting times ahead! Feels weird how most people don't pay any attention to these kind of things.

lol.

Bitcoin's value is towering around on shaky stilts.

Just imagine, that there are a few wildcard investment houses around, who have significant Bitcoin positions but who are also exposed to a declining stock market, except with them being a high risk venture, they are exposed to the most volatile stocks during a downslip. What might they have to do with their Bitcoin position and how might it affect Bitcoin price which is being held up predominantly through restriction of supply?

Yes, I feel like I'm living in some kind of parallel universe. It's the universe of alternative media, as opposed to the MSM-universe 98% of people live in.

Both world shall align again soon...

Hehe. People in general don't pay any attention to financial markets and economy even though it could have a huge impact in their lives. And when shit hits the fan they are caught guards down and they have no idea what's happening and what to do.

Yes, but it's not only that - I know so many people who are in business, have studied economy, have built up businesses themselves, but still no clue...

It's hard to break through social conditioning and through what the MSM feeds you...

I've been having these very same thoughts.  A lot of people believe that in times of economic crisis, with falling stock prices, that everyone will liquidate and rush to "put it all in bitcoin or PMs."  Perhaps, but I also see that as being somewhat shortsighted and naive.  If everyone suddenly needed large amounts of fiat to pay bills because their stocks collapsed and they lost their job, do you think they would rush to put it all in bitcoin?  No, they'd likely do the opposite: whatever they had invested, pull it all OUT of bitcoin, lol.

Only in the countries where they have hyperinflation and their currency is truly collapsing, could I see them rushing to bitcoin.

It was my understanding that we already had a housing crash since the 2008.

Yup.

As gruesome as it sounds to say it, countries' economic systems imploding in isolation (where one nationa was fkd but everyone else was hunky dory), would be good for Bitcoin, PMs etc. But if the USD and thus the global economic system goes down, Bitcoin in particular would be fkd. Just imagine if things were to get so bad that the lights were to go out for a few days. How would Bitcoin react to that? As things stand at the moment. Bitcoin is a fancy pants icing on the cake kind of financial asset that has probably been far too overpumped for the market at large to really swallow at this point in time. Take away the cake and Bitcoin is fk all.

A lot of the Bitcoin zealots need to learn not to delude themselves.

A lot of government loyalists need to realise the world doesn't revolve around them, lights going out? Please, people aren't as fragile as you think and don't get me started on the fact that the internet is privatised, even here in the UK power is still going to keep humming even if the government were to shut down because the power supply is private as well.

The only thing I will acknowledge is that a lot of the lights on the motorways would go out but that's why we all have headlights on cars to begin with.

Yes. Here in the UK our national grid was all auctioned off to the lowest bidder that happened to also be lining MPs pockets with geld. Hooray for privitisation! Hooray for energy bills that have more than quadrupled in the past decade! Hooray for the energy companies records breaking profits and future energy price hikes. Hooray for yet another privatised heist of the family silver.

Do you think those 'efficient' energy companies will gladly supply the nation with power if a situation arises where they may not be able to reliably collect payment for that energy? When a countries national infrastructure is privatised, there is far more chance of essential supplies and services being cut the very minute that they become 'unprofitable'. A government will deliver regardless of profit. A private company will not.

... But without the government to regulate utilities and consumers, who would build the regulatory structure that legally prevents neighbourhoods (in many areas) from installing pay-to-participate fuel cells, generators, solar cells, etc to power small community grid systems?

Oh sorry, I just posed a self-defeating question  ;D ;D ;D

There would certainly be hella disruption if the governments really did "shut down" but it's not like electricity ceases to exist just because the regulatory bodies that prevent us from producing and distributing it in the most efficient way possible, have a "closed" sign on their county office... The governments of the world do a lot to secure fuel costs with their big scary armies, so energy markets would be tumultuous at first until appropriate transitions were made.

You are conveniently forgetting that Bitcoin is a payment system that operates outside of government control and has no problems doing so, it would hardly be difficult for the electricity companies to set up a payment system with Bitcoin as people are already doing now and even then the company could simply send people around to their customers homes' and they can receive the coins directly in person. As for the energy bills you speak of part of the reason that they're so high now is because the companies in charge are all state sponsored just like with the car insurance companies which is why they have so many laws benefiting them. Don't you ever wonder why there are only around four major companies owning everything in this country?

Yeah, I'd consider privatisation a good thing, but I'm talking about true privatisation and free markets, the kind that we're seeing in cryptocurrencies, not this fake state sponsored and tightly controlled crap that you call privatisation. As for companies being profit driven, oh the irony, just today I had watched a news item about a company specialising in flood defence that delivered several thousand sandbags to help the UK deal with the floods that are going on right now which completely annihilates the point you were trying to make. You are also forgetting that a private company no matter who they are always benefits from good PR, can you imagine what would happen if a company got headlines of "Company leaves people dead in the street because they won't pay money" yeah, like anybody is going to pay money into that place again, private companies aren't this all powerful and terrifying faceless force that government loyalists like to scare people with, they rely on customers for their existence and if customers are dying in the streets then that's bad for business no matter what you say.

The simple fact is, people like you don't believe in human generosity and steal from people you think won't help others because you immediately assume when the shit hits the fan they won't do anything. You conveniently forget as well that by taking from them you are also making them more resentful of you and you don't necessarily know how best to help the people you claim to be helping either. It really is for me one of the ultimate hypocrisies in the world, what really strikes me is eventually not only is the person your taking from going to get fed up of you stealing from them you're going to end up ruining their livelihoods as well because eventually they'll run out of stuff you can steal and the people you're 'helping' will have been reliant on that and won't know what to do afterwards.

Also, please don't tell me you're one of those people who doesn't consider taxes stealing, because then you're really the deluded one.

p.s. Very glad that the Royal Mail was auctioned off, now they don't have a monopoly over my mail and the employees actually have to deliver it in order to stay operational rather than taking taxpayer money

Just like Jim Rickards wrote in Currency Wars. Its a race to the bottom with everyone trying to devalue their currency more (even though their seem to be set rules for USD/EUR etc). From here (IIRC) eventually US exports inflation, emerging market economies cop it, currencies tank and we're looking at sovereign defaults.

Popcorn time.

I read above that someone actually thinks the "privatization" (as they like to call it) of utilities the way it's done today is a realistic example of free markets and private industry. It's like when the state signs a contract with a "private prison" GUARANTEEING 90% capacity virtually regardless of performance. That is socialism, not privatization, just using the "P" word to describe it will not earn you any brownie points, sorry! Call it quasi-private if you will. If the state is involved, the initiation of violence is being used as an economic power and thus distorting the markets and natural incentivary mechanisms.

"Government will continue to deliver regardless of profits. A private company won't."

Exactly. You've just described the cause of most of the problems in the world today.

Government will continue to deliver regardless of profits, yes - and they will steal lots of money, drop lots of bombs, and shoot lots of people in order to do so.

*FACEPALM*

Jeeezus.

I thought I had you on ignore. Will soon sort that out but in the meantime......

....it is not 'governments' who decide to go to war, drop lots of bombs, and shoot lots of people...

......it is the powerful monetary and business interests behind them.

It is the 'free market' at work.

In a 'free' market, the Big Boys are free to push everyone else around however they see fit. It is what we call 'neo-liberalism' and if any one lesson can be learned from that it is that a powerful man's freedoms become the chains around 10 humble men's necks.

Hooray for unfettered free market liberalism.

*Facepalm* Indeed! Nothing worse than snottery nosed little wetbags who think they fkn know the score.

You're a moron that doesn't even understand what a real free market is and yet again, the irony of it all is that you come onto a cryptocurrency forum which is designed to be a real free market to voice that opinion. Also what you're complaining about isn't called 'neo-liberalism' I don't know where you picked that up, it's called corporatism and has nothing to do with free markets, you're confusing a number of different ideologies with each other, probably a result of watching too much television.

It's very expensive to get into gold and silver?  You can buy silver mercury dimes at a coin dealer for about $1.50 each.  Or, if you can manage, you can buy a 1/10th oz. gold American Eagle coin for around $130.  I don't understand how that is more expensive then crypto currencies.

That's because you guys have money :P the point is I can always mine crypto's at a fairly steady rate to get them whereas in order to really profit you have to sink quite a bit of cash in with commodities, I suppose it's true of anything you invest in, even crypto's, but it's far easier to break into the market, oh and then there's the fact that there's no government sponsored manipulation going on so it's much easier to trade.

The last couple of days have been suggesting that, yes.

I looked into Curreny Wars on Amazon - how does that big experiment from the first chapter(s) turn out, in the lab? Rickards seems like he knows a lot.

You are Jewish and barely out of your teenage years (i.e. your brain has only just started to work but are burdened by the assumption that you possess wisdom beyond that of all other mortals)?

Am I right?

Do I win £10?

I agree. I didn't see his post because he's been on my ignore ever since I realized he litters his "arguments" with childish ad homs... but indeed, one of my most favorite ironies is people who confuse corporatism with the free market, YET are participating in cryptocurrencies which thwart central bank intervention, one of the central pillars of the state-run markets we have today.

You win for exactly defining what an ad hominem attack is!   Congratulations!

Antisemitic Ad hom! you get double points for that. I think you've earned an honored spot on my highly exclusive "ignore" list. Congrats!

Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo.

I am on billyjoeallen's ignore list and now I won't get any more of his hair-brained worthless replies.

Such a sad day.

Holy shit guys! It's getting much worse O_O S&P is taking a serious hit now too.

WOW the irony..... What a moron. Do you really have an ignore list? I bet you dont even know what ignorance mean you little shit.

Here.... welcome to my ignore.

It has to come some time....
is this gonna cause a fast panic when it comes? there must be a lot of smart people with their finger on the trigger.

To be honest, I didn't think it was going to happen so soon, my prediction was for a lot later but it looks like things were worse than I thought, either that or the federal reserve are going to yet again rush in and 'save' the day for awhile longer.

............Im digging around on news sites for sentiment.....and it seems like everyone is calling for a 'major top' in stocks. Well I dont know what to think about that because I think we are near one. what's the use of sentiment when you agree?

A trend in sentiment Ive seen on a lot of blogs goes something like 'death to the dollar' - swiftly followed by tapering. Everyone thinks the fed is bluffing and will keep printing. that is consistent with a crash in stocks....

maybe we should look to the reaction from this weeks NFP.

Yellen will reverse the taper if there is more than a 20% fall from the peak and maybe even before that. The money printers have their fingers on the triggers also.

If we go by historical data there's always a sort of tipping point before a complete collapse of a hyperinflationary economy, it's just a question of when that point is which no one can really predict accurately, you can get close and there's always an absolute limit to this kind of thing but once the economy is finished there's a reason they call it a collapse because that's what happens, soon it won't matter how much central banks taper or print.

I don't know if we're they're yet, but these are certainly some major warning signs, I remember when the 2008 crash happened and the data all started looking like this which is why I'm working my arse off now so I can benefit from it and prepare :P

If you don't mind me asking, what's your strategy for benefiting from the chaos...?

It's a secret! ^_^

Just kidding, I have various altcoins in mind and I plan on buying Gold/Silver as well but obviously I need to make some money in order to do that.

Yup, this is all looking very, very bad!

Usually, when things go down, they pull back up at least a little bit, but we had practically no upward movement. The point where this downward movement begins to feed on itself has been reached.

Even worse, the currencies of the emerging markets look horrible as well, and currencies don't lie. They are somehow linchpins for the economy, giving reliable signals. Although today currencies are looking better. Well, it can't always fall - especially something with as little volatility as currencies.

I expect a raise of QE at some point this year, and then the big question will be: Will that reverse be enough for the market to rise again (maybe even to new highs) and collapse later, or will the market have lost any confidence in the Fed by then and just accelerate its collapse?

I'm awaiting the reverse of QE and the answer of the market.

Blogs are not too good of a source for this, the more mainstream the source is, the better! What do daily newspapers, etc say? They were all very bullish just a short time ago.

+100

My impression is also that mainstream has been bullish for a couple of years with more alternative sources also calling a top for years (with a lot of people getting burned by that I assume)... when mainstream is fully bearish that is when you stop shorting/go long  ;D

 
But perhaps more interesting than if markets go up or down is that, with fear back and all the QE BS a bit depleted, now economic news seem to matter again. Next interesting global data point: US factory orders at 10 EST.