Bitcoin Forum

This is the news spreading twitter, I'm not sure if it is fud but apparently BTC-e is under investigation... looks serious enough:

http://litecoinnews.org/possibly-btc-e-legal-troubles/

Get your coins out ASAP! This one might go down fast.

Thats true and it`s bad as it might sound but btc-e admins have balls to keep this exchange running. Can only hope now they dont decide to shutdown the worst way it could possibly happen.

I'm more afraid of BTC-e users panic and following stampede. Any Russians here to verify article?

I`m russian so i can confirm, i wrote my on view on it in observer thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg4920003#msg4920003

I went to withdraw the few LTC I had in btc-e, and I keep getting a 504 Gateway Time-out.  If anyone else having this problem?

Nice. I hope I see bitcoin on the streets. Enough with the "exchange" phase. I want to really use it.

It is confirmed now though BTC-e denies wrongdoing and they increased transaction fees, it looks like BTC China scenario. Coindesk article about BTC-e: http://www.coindesk.com/btc-e-concerns-russian-criminal-investigation/

Bitstamp and dozens of other smaller solvent and 100% operational exchanges.

But out of the major exchanges.....yeah, looks like Bitstamp is the only one left that doesn't seem like it is away to implode and take everyones Geld and Bitcoin with it....at least I fkn hope not...got 18K USD in my Bitstamp account.

BitFinex has been working well, but that's basically Bitstamp + a few more coins in liquidity. :D

There's uhhh... BTCChina? I think they still operate in some capacity. I think Kraken might still be going with its 2BTC daily trade volume. There's uhhh....... uhhh..... I think that may actually be it, but person-to-person exchange is booming, which is fantastic. Trouble is they generally rely on centralized exchanges to determine price to use.

It`s the only exchange that have zero AML/KYC, there`s no way they can operate legally, even in Russia. If you have a legal case against you, you`re literally done. Thats how it works in this country. BTC China had a funding problems, not a fraud and money laundering legal case, you cant compare that.

They are highly professional, I use Bitstamp for over a year, excellent service.

They are even illegal under Bulgarian law I think, the law is more or less the same in continental Europe, here in Croatia you need to obey KYC to do any kind of financial meditation I think in Bulgaria is the same.

I wonder if this is one of the reasons campbx price has been rising...I dont think campbx is a licensed money transmitter so I probably wouldnt hold a lot of fiat there, but other than than, campbx is pretty good...At least for now...

Maybe for Americans.

MtGox was the same in 2011.

What are the other centralized options for non-Americans? (despite my awkward phrasing, I'm genuinely curious)

You are right, they are all good until they fuck up something.  :D

Just got my withdraw of 5xx LTC... no problems here.

Beside Bitstamp which I use for btc, I can say Kraken works really good... they have few alts... so yeah  :)

If BTC-E will have problems, then it will also hit hard on LTC price, since it's the biggest market for LTC.
I converted my LTC to BTC and transfered to stamp. I have always been nervous on keeping money in BTC-E, because their lack of transparency. They have a great interface and engine, but sadly I don't trust people that I know very little of. So, their confidence that everything will be fine won't make me very confident. Suffered a small loss because of this move, but I think that it was necessary to avoid the risk. I'm afraid that LTC price will drop more and there will be a lot of FUD, before it's known if BTC-E is in fact in trouble.

There is not nearly enough bid depth for any of the alts on another exchange. Convert to BTC and withdraw, that´s the only sane way to go.

I believe it just pertains to Russia, and to my knowledge they don't operate out of Russia, so I think the best that they could do is prevent people living in Russia to use BTC-E

With that being said, I would always recommend only leaving the amount of BTC, LTC, or whatever in there that you plan on trading.   Move the rest of it to your own wallet.  You can always deposit back there for free anyway...

Lack of transparency is kind of an invalid point, given that the creator of Bitcoin is just as anonymous as the owners of BTC-E...

Unfortunately btc-e is not decentralized as bitcoin is. Lack of transparency is best choice for them otherwise they wouldnt last so long.

No, your comparison is invalid. The Bitcoin-d/-qt code is a protocol, but BTC-e is a service. The 2 owners of BTC-e have complete control over whatever you store there. The "creator of bitcoin," if the reviews of countless coders over the last 4+ years are any indication, has no such control over your bitcoin. Apples and oranges, my friend. Keeping coins on an exchange is far riskier than keeping them in a cold wallet, or even a hot wallet provided you take appropriate security precautions (like not being a tard and using Winblows/Macinshit OS)

When the bitcoin software is open sourced, then the work itself is transparent and the exact person behind it isn't as important. But with BTC-E, their work is as hidden as their personal information.
Because of that I can't speculate if they did some shady deals with the criminal underworld or not. If russians can link BTC-E finance to terrorism, then the problem will go to international level and BTC-E will be in trouble.
I know that all of this can just be FUD without any solid base, but I had no reason to take the risk.

Apples and oranges.

Bitcoin is open source software, everyone can audit the code. The block chain is a distributed ledger held on thousands of computers.

BTC-e is a centralized service which holds users deposits. No one can audit their accounts.

difference being, creator of Bitcoin doesn't hold your funds, while you do have to trust 3rd party which makes it a very risky exercise

As for BTC-e's legal situation, here's my take on it...

The exchange does not operate in Russia. The owners reside in Russia but are not russian citizens.

As it stands, only Russia has taken action. This means that everyone else doesn't have much to worry about. It would be like if Argentina decided to ban MtGox.com. It would only affect argentinians. But, keep in mind that Russia is probably a significant memberbase for BTC-e.

Now, if the Bulgarian government decided to shut down BTC-e, that would be a different issue. But show me an exchange that is 150% certain of their legal status, show me a country that has absolutely no regulatory uncertainty...

On a side note, I love BTC-e's interface. Almost as much as I loved Bitfloor's interface  :'(

VaultofSatoshi is still there.

If they made their layout similar to btc-e's, they would get alot more volume.



Out of every exchange I ever used, Bitfloor was the best. In trading, in deposit times, in withdrawal times.

I use my armory wallet when I'm not behind my computer for longer then 20hours. It's always risky keeping your coins somewhere else, but I have had a lot of grief and lost money with unnaturally long confirmation times and problems with exchange depositing systems. So I prefer to keep my btc/$ active while I'm behind the computer and ready to act.

That is not correct, the all mess with btc-e is not about ban or something. They are suspecting exchange of money laundering and terror funding, thats a big issue. I have no doubt this have to do nothing with reality of course, but in Russia no one cares. If you see news like this one, that means they want them really bad for some reason.

I don't know for terrorism but the way they operate indicates some type of money laundering.  Based in Bulgaria (highly corrupt EU state), cash deposits trough Egopay and other shady payment processors, minimum deposit of 2000 EUR, unknown owners (rumors Russian mafia), no KYC/AML and when you compare them to the Bitstamp it's pretty obvious. I hope everything will be fine because of huge number of Bitcoiners doing trade there but BTC-e business practice is odd at best.

pure FUD.... lol

I dont know if you're brainwashed by goverment but why no KYC means money laundering? Why no direct banking means money laundering?

So far your points are just as the idiots' calling bitcoin ponzi/illicit currency

I meant the personal identities of both BTC-E and bitcoin are both anonymous, also in the post right above I said the same thing about keeping the coins in a wallet rather than directly on the exchange itself

I for once think its great that Russia and China move against bitcoin. That mean U.S. can go pro-bitcoin to without worrying of "dark" plans by its enemies.

If the domain were to be seized, it would  probably be online again fairly quickly as btc-e.tv or btc-e.ru or something along those lines...

You missed the point..... of transparency, idiot

/facepalm
 

I'm laughing all the time I'm reading this thread  ;D
C'mon, weak hands, SODL all your BTC!

Typical Russian proverb: Serverity of Russian laws is offset by non-execution.
And also: BTC-e community is not only Russians (Russians are a very small part there).

Only in CIS (Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan...)

I'm SO sure about that.

This could actually bring a rise to BTC.
People who are moving out of BTC-E are using BTC as the main tool to do so. Those who were holding fiat will use BTC as the quickest and most secure way in getting their funds out. If they buy BTC while the price is rising, then they will probably hold till the uptrend stops

Why not?

If this all blows over then everyone can buy back in at probably the same price as they sold or a bit cheaper. If this turns out to be a real body-blow to the Bitcoin eco-system then everyone can buy back in at much lower prices....or not at all.

Agreed.
Another example: Sergey Brin, Google co-founder, is Russian. But Google is an American company.
Will you worry if Russia decides to ban Google?  :D

Stan Bokov, TradingView co-founder, is Russian. But TradingView is an American company.
Will you worry if Russia bans TradingView?

Under Bulgarian law if one engages in financial mediation is obliged to "Know Your Customer" or validate customer personal information. If he doesn't he breaks the law.

Which part you don not understand?

Have you ever been in Bank?

I left BTC-E with the same reasoning. If BTC-E will be linked to terrorism, then Russia will turn this situation political. For instance they could actually use trade relations with Bulgaria to force them to cooperate with their demands.
I live in Estonia, a country where the ruling party likes to present itself as anti-russian. But they will mostly bend to Russian demands when trade relations are in question. If Bulgaria will get political pressure from Russia, then they won't think twice on feeding BTC-E to the wolves.

I repeat, that this all could be just FUD with Russian govt. having little interest to get BTC-E. But if they have real interest, then I think that there will be trouble.

That is a very good point, if they can link it to finance terrorism then US, UK and the rest of the western world will move in, too.

They only have their servers in Bulgaria, nothing more.
BTC-E is a Cypriotic company. Russian govt CAN'T take them in Cyprus.

I took all my funds out as soon as I heard this news on Reddit.  :)

But if Russia can link it to terrorism. No country will dare to host their site.

These servers hold the data of your coins and $, so I wouldn't call it nothing.
Also if there will be political pressure, then Cyprus will bend as well. There are not many countries in that region that are immune to Russian political pressure. And remember that BTC-E isn't actually something that's very important to the country it resides in. It's just not profitable to protect BTC-E with the cost of going to bad terms with Russia.

So the main question here isn't if BTC-E falls under Bulgarian or Cyprus jurisdiction, but how bad do the russians want to get BTC-E and are they willing to go political with their investigation.

BTC-e fud is affecting LTC price  ;D

There are LOTS of Russian businessmen/investors who use Cyprus to hide themselves from Russian government. Every Cypriot can prove that.

Facepalm this below, mongolface:

http://www.coindesk.com/btc-e-concerns-russian-criminal-investigation/ (http://www.coindesk.com/btc-e-concerns-russian-criminal-investigation/)   End of BTC-E is eminent

They follow Cypress laws. They aren't Russian company. Why Russia could seize their servers in Bulgaria?  ;D
Maybe Russia would seize MtGox servers in Japan? Or Bitstamp's in Slovenia? All exchanges will fire because of Russian govt! We all will die! PANIC! SELL SELL SELL!!!11

BITCOIN WILL DIE BECAUSE OF RUSSIA!!!111oneoneone

The USA seized servers and arrested Kim DotCom in New Zealand. Even using FBI hardware and officers to do so.

The USA gets UK citizens extradited for breaking US law, despite the fact that the citizen never broke any UK laws.

Powerful countries have leverage over less powerful countries, especially when any kind of trading links are involved.

If Russia is serious about nailing BTC-E for whatever reason, and it leans on Bulgaria to any degree whatsoever, these servers are getting switched off. Simple as that. After all, the Bulgarian government wouldn't want to run the risk of aiding 'terrorists' would they?

Russia is not USA.
Yes, I know, you probably have a short position, but no, Russia is not USA and actually has no power to seize something outside.

The main thing Russian govt cares about is foreign money that could sponsor the Russian political opposition. Nothing more.
They are just trying to close any pipes of foreign money.

So, the most "scary" event that can happen is possible ban of access to the BTC-E website in Russia. Hello Tor & VPN!

I know that Cyprus is the main place for money laundering for Russian oligarchs, but they aren't doing it to hide from the government, or at least from those who are in charge. A lot of russians who launder their money through Cyprus, are actually the same people who have power in the government. They only have to hide their income from the public view and keep the appearance that there is no corruption. So, if the people in charge at Russian government are serious in getting BTC-E, then Cyprus will surely bend.
I bet that even US would bend, but Russia would have to offer gifts, not threats, to make the deal work. With most others, threats will suffice.

So, the main question still is how bad do russians want to get BTC-E. I think that it won't be answered very soon. Anyway, I'm out of BTC-E, everyone else will do as they wish. The comfortable interface just doesn't outweigh the risk of getting my funds frozen or confiscated. If it turns out to be just weak FUD, then I can return in the future, so I don't see the reason why should I take even a small risk.

I have no position. I do have 18K USD on Bitstamp, which I consider to be the most trustworthy and best run of all the major Bitcoin exchanges.

Also, I don't think a short position would help me very much in a scenario where exchanges start disappearing off the scene.

Not only money laundering. Honest and legal businessmen also use Cyprus to hide themselves from Russian govt (and successfully) and protect themselves from raider attacks which often happen in Russia.

Whoosh you hear that? it just went right over your head....

So your logic says.... if you dont comply with the law, you're money laundering?

Awsome logic you have there. You just answered my first sentence.

I can't believe that you are not already on my ignore list. I am sure I would have added you right away if I had came across any of your posts.

Go and do business with any bank or financial mediator for even a modest sum, and try getting the transaction done without verifying your ID, proof of address etc.

In fact don't. Lay of the junk food, think before you puke your bile out onto the forum, and frankly just stop embarrassing yourself.

...

For all people here who want to know more about AML/KYC regulation, here you can find ultimate guide for almost each country in the world cause knowledge is the power:

http://www.pwc.com/en_GX/gx/financial-services/publications/assets/pwc-anti-money-laundering-know-your-customer-quick-reference-guide.pdf

It's updated for 2014.

BTC-e = 804
Huobi =806
Bitstamp = 806

Last time i checked it, btc-e is usually 10-20btc lower... LOL
So the whales bought btc and moved to other exchanges? :D

Even if this ends up not being a problem, it's a good lesson to not keep too much on an exchange. I tend to forget exactly how much I have on any given exchange... don't get me wrong, I do keep track, but not in my head... so when this happened, I realized I had, well, just a little more LTC than I was comfortable with on BTC-e. Withdrew some of it. Didn't withdraw all, since the news isn't exactly the direst (the company is owned in Cyprus, servers in Bulgaria, and owners live in Russia but are not citizens) and again, I don't have my life savings on there or anything. Losing what I have as a "convenience" amount on the 4 exchanges I use would be nothing more than a mild annoyance.

CaVirtex for the lulz, and the rapidly depreciating CAD!

I don't have any utility bill under my name.. how do i get verified in bitstamp? LOL

It's just a myth, a legend, that people get verified on stamp (at least I'm unable to no matter how many times I send the papers).


Do you actually think people should get the f out of btc-e asap or is it just fud? I have coins there and I can't change to stamp for above reason and don't want to go to gox.

CampBX is a decent choice for US users, so long as they don't need oodles of market depth and don't mind the shitty interface. I'm not sure why more don't use it. Depositing by personal check or money order is not bad either. They had ACH until recently but good things never last...

http://vk.com/feed?w=wall-20537665_34455

http://s4.postimg.org/rmggr9hnx/2014_02_04_10_22_47.png

But does that prove i'm laundering money? Because i choose to not complying with the law ?

Dumb ass you missed my point. The law requires money service businesses to follow such rules, but that does not mean the only reason for that is laundering money.

Yay!!! knowledge is power only if you can understand it.

You call any business not compliant with such rules because they're laundering money. Care to prove that? apparently you dont know there are other reasons?

.....ah the dangers of believing everything one reads.......

http://volgoproc.ru/newversion/cgi-bin/run.pl?mod=news.mod&dirmod=mod&func=view&id=2332

I just want to have an account at other exchanges for arbitrage or when shit happens :D
Right now I only have btc-e and cryptsy.. Not sure where I could trade BTC <--> $ other than btc-e :D

Nice spot! Google translated quote:

It's Russia. They'll just pay few dollars to few ppl and everything will be fine.

a.k.a corruption...

Exactly. That's how every serious business works in ex-USSR.

http://www.coindesk.com/russian-prosecutors-office-btc-e-investigation-hoax/

interesting: not terrorists or any political group hacked the site, but guys that want to bring the price down to buy cheap.

edit

+1, there is a upside in corruption after all, some of us won't have to change the exchange :)

http://volgoproc.ru/newversion/cgi-bin/run.pl?mod=news.mod&dirmod=mod&func=view&id=2332

Previous reports about btc-e confirmed as fake  ???

This is fake news so it rightly belongs to the proudhon's thread. Has been removed from the original joomla site in minutes. You people are too gullible.

I think the word to use is not gullible. But cautious.  :)

Russian Prosecutor’s Office: BTC-e Investigation Report was a Hoax

http://www.coindesk.com/russian-prosecutors-office-btc-e-investigation-hoax/

Damn you are faster than me. I was going to post this.  ;D

 ;D ;D

 :-X looks like time to sell my coins, BTC getting too dangerous...

Ooh Did you sell did you sell?

Ah, silly you, was all just a hoax. Don't worry, you can buy them back $10 cheaper than you sold yesterday...or even wait a few more days and get them even cheaper etc.

So the conclusion is ?

It was either a Hoax or BTC-e bribe the Russian official who was investigating them.  ;D

BTC-e is business as normal. No one is investigating them at this moment in time.

I went back to fiat, so I feel quite comfortable setting myself up at stamp. I started using BTC-E because of LTC, but LTC doesn't seem very attractive at the moment. Too unstable and the BTC-E LTC market keeps getting mauled by this person or group with 2mil.$+ buy/sell walls. I have my doubts, that they are the same people who run BTC-E, since it's hard to believe that any outsider would trust a sum this big to the hands of an a company with this transparency level.
Anyway.. it makes the investment unattractive, if you know that a single entity has so much control. So, guys, I would recommend more subtlety rather then creating walls so out of proportion.

What if it was real and they are now investigating.. They just made it appear like the site was hacked so people would not take their money out :D

https://i.imgur.com/E68XVuO.jpg

It would be a huge hit to the alt coin world if btc-e was shut down.

Personally I'm hesistant to leave any coins on any exchange after losing my deposits to Ukyo and Bitfunder / WeExchange.

What I don't understand is, why don't these big exchanges run them from countries without such ..... stringent  rules?  They could have their physical infrastructure in Cambodia or the Fiji Islands or Liberia, run it remotely from Belarus (or some place with better beaches) and then not have to worry as much about being whimsically shut down by the majority of the planet's countries which have their financial policy dictated to them by the Federal Reserve.  

That's exactly what btc-e does. servers on cyprus, legal entity elsewhere, admins russian. Not falling under a single jurisdiction much

Yes, it seems like they have actually done it right so far to stay up and running consistently without governmental problems

From the central bank of cyprus:
http://www.centralbank.gov.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=13239&lang=en

Does this mean GTFO of btce?

Nice try to scare people who sold on btc-e to buy back for a loss. Try again. Btc-e has been one of the most reliable exchanges there are.

This is hilarious considering the CBC just robbed the entire nation...

Don't see why it should.

BTC-E is run by Russians, whose office is based in Cyprus, but whose exchange is based in Bulgaria.

Worry about BTC-E when the Bulgarian Central Bank states that they are out to nail Bitcoin.

I only know for sure cryptos are dangerous for bangsters. I never had any problem with btc-e. I'm a believer in cryptos, but at these times with the Mt.Gox issues I'm standing aside.

That sounds ridiculous. It reminds me of a hand of poker where you're trying to catch a backdoor straight draw and there's also a potential flush and full house on the board that might beat you.

If one day I setup my own exchange server I would look at that list first ...

Index of Economic Freedom
http://www.gfmag.com/component/content/article/119-economic-data/12450-economic-freedom-by-countryhtml.html#axzz2ss5LIZFd

Even if btce were based in Russia, I don't really see a problem. It's just like trading linden dollars, which aren't a currency either, it's just tokens for collecting. Now bitpay and co, that's something different, there are goods and services involved not trading for the tradings sake.
That is what it will boil down to, whenever the talking heads here like it or not.

Speaking of poker, doesnt the Gox situation remind you of Ultimate Bet?

More like when all the micro skins went down

You don't see a problem. Putin does.

Did you pay attention to any of the rest of my post?
I think I argued my point well enough, and I expect you to do the same, that is if you like a serious response.

RUSSIA HAS BANNED BITCOIN YOU HALFWIT!

Trade in any form of currency or currency substitute that isn't the Ruble, is illegal in Russia. This was written into law in 2002 and this law is being cited in the face of the Bitcoin 'threat'.

You didn't pay attention.
It has banned the use of Bitcoin as a currency but I don't see it is banned for other uses. I say btc-e is used to trade Bitcoins, Litecoins, etc... as collectible tokens. No good or service is offered for Bitcoins.

Lets face it, Bitcoin isn't a currency in Russia.

Problem comes when someone within Russia wants to trade them coins for fiat currency.

Right now, Russia would be the very last country where anyone would want to base a Bitcoin exchange.

So people also trade stamps and magic cards?

How do I get USD fiat out of BTC-e?  (without having to trade to crypto first I mean)

There is a cheap way (okpay) and a easy way (vouchers on converting sites to paypal) and things in-between.