Bitcoin Forum

nt

Huh ???

It it has 1000 shares already outstanding and no more will be issued then how are you selling 100 shares?  

Is the company selling shares (to raise capital for the company) or is an existing shareholder selling their shares (no capital to company, merely ownership change).
Maybe it is just the wording but I read it a  couple times and kept coming back to ???

I like the proposal. 

Can you estimate how much capacity space you have at all three locations. 
Do you have any photos of your rigs / datacenter?
What is the company cost to rent/occupy the three locations?

Sorry about the confusion. 

Current shareholders are selling, this is not a capital raise.  Shares outstanding will stay at 1,000, but ownership will now be split 90% to me and my CTO, 10% to outside investors. 

We are fairly confident we can expand to 15 GH/s before we run into issues.  We do have photos, and will share them with serious potential investors who show interest.  

On the cost of occupancy....we have co-located our miners in space already in use for our other ventures (read: we have other business').  Thus we are not charging BitCO for physical space, as we would be charging ourselves.  Going forward, we do not plan on charging for occupancy.  

nm.  asked for an answer that was already there above. 

I'd just like to say how nice it is to finally see someone who's seeking outside investors providing a coherent business proposal which includes financials  and a stratplan.

Yes, it totally goes against everything this community stands for.

1. Create a post about my 'business'
2. Collect coins
3. ?

I have recieved a great response about BitCO.  We have lined up several investors, and are really looking forward to being a part of a legitimate Bitcoin business. 

If anyone is still interested, and has not contacted us yet, we are still looking for a couple more investors for this first round of share sales. 

Thanks to all those who have provided feedback and given us suggestions. 

Looks like we have another addition to the bitcoin 'business' dead pool.  My money is on one week until they disappear with investor's money.

I will take that bet.  How much? 

Are you sure your production numbers are correct? I'm producing half of what you are producing and I only invested $2000 in hardware. I thought the point of a corporation is to take advantage of the economies of scale.

Great observation.  We did not hit our current 10,000 MH/s until early this month.  I expect that our September production will be close to 175 BTC.

Sorry if this was answered and I assume its included in your 'expenses by BTC' but can we get a breakdown of your electricity cost per KWH at each of these locations and a total average of what that is and what it will be at the start of the next month for all facilities combined?  Do you forsee this cost going up or down with any change of contract for the electricty at any or all of the facilities?

Cheers

That's more like it. Do you plan to expand further or just keep the current rate?

We are not giving out a breakdown of the cost per location, but electricity rates are .08 per kw at residential, and .06 at the offices. 

We believe we have suficient infrastructure to reach 15,000 MH/s.  Our plan is to strategically expand when financially advantageous (read: good deals on additional hardware).  If we feel the cost benefit of further expansion is not in our favor, we are happy to continue at 10 GH/s and pay out generous dividends. 

Hi there,

This is the CTO of BitCO....I wanted to expand on this topic a little more.  Our only direct cost of electricity comes from the residential location.  The two office locations have pooled elecricity cost, so it is hard to break out exactly what our network uses.  BitCO pays a small fee to the business' occupying the office space, and that fee is indeed included in Operating Costs on the financials. 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but someone can ask for 8 btc per share, convert that into USD, and put the USD into a bank account. At the current rate of bitcoin price drop he can afford to pay out 0.1 btc dividends indefinitely.

I'm not making accusations here. I'm saying that there's very little evidence to differentiate you from the above scheme. When you release your mining rig photos to potential investors they have no way to verify those photos except by posting them on this forum, so your photos will end going public regardless. So I would highly recommend that you post some photos of your mining rigs since it has the following benefits:
1. Everyone can verfiy that the photos are novel
2. Someone else can't claim the photos as their own
3. Build credibility

Please don't take this the wrong way, but That's great.  A truly brilliant observation.  You should probably be given a prize for your power of deductive reasoning. 

All joking aside....assuming the price of BTC will always go down is stunningly assinine (have you even been paying attention for more than 5 weeks, or are you a newcomer who assumes they know all?).  I would not base a business on that assumption, but if you want to, be my guest.  furthermore, I really could not care less about what the BTC/USD conversion rate is, as we are in the business of mining Bitcoin, Paying dividends in Bitcoin, and taking investment in Bitcoin.  We produce a very steady, very predictable stream of BTC per month, and tha has value to many people. 

In regards to the photos, we don't feel the need to disclose them simply because you feel entitled to throw accusations around.  We have a track record of being legitimate partners in mining contracts.  This can be verified here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41888.0 and here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38904.0  Our reputation can also be looked into by talking with "payb.tc", "jduck1987", and "BitSense Informatics"

That's a bit much do ya think?

How about start slow and just ask for pics of his bedroom where the gigantic mining farm is located? And maybe his parents power bill for last month?

I'm just trying to help, if you don't want it then that's fine.

The other threads have 0 evidence that you actually have the machines. You could have simply rented the hashes from someone else. I have no interest in bothering other forum members because you refuse to provide evidence yourself. Do you expect every investor to hold a PM chat with those three guys?

If you make no assumptions about the BTC/USD conversion ratio, the scam will still work. Just pay the dividends from the original 8 BTC. You can do this for 6 years and the scammer can still make a profit.

I bet typing that reply took much longer than posting a photo.

How to start a bitcoin business:

1.  Put "CEO of XXXXX" in your sig.  (replace XXXX with something important-sounding)
2.  there is no 2.

1.5 When someone wants some evidence before investing, make personal attacks against them and then accuse them of being a newbie.

I'm sorry, but you have a stunning lack of maturity in your post history. I point out a few below. I'd ask everyone to look at these and ask whether they really want to do business with this type of person.

• I understand we all have to start somewhere, but this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=32802.msg409665#msg409665) was a mere six weeks ago. You didn't even know how to use guiminer. I seriously doubt people would want to do business with an inexperienced beginner.
• This thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33999.msg424427#msg424427) is hard to even look at. You completely fail to comprehend how someone can "possibly get 1500 MH/s for $1,000." You go on to attack anyone who shows you otherwise. You also fail (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33999.msg425050#msg425050) to realize that you can mine off of 1x PCIe slots. Hey, I can build a 1600 Mh/s system for under $800, do you want to know my super secret newegg buying skillz?
• You are a little more blunt in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36030.msg445169#msg445169). A very quick "You sir, are an idiot." The hero member, Phinnaeus Gage, continues being reasonable to you and offer you advise, but you just shoot him down and be sarcastic. He even offers you a free customized leather wallet, only to be ignored by you. Bitcoin Express said it best (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36030.msg445213#msg445213), "OP couldn't even figure GUIMiner 6 weeks ago now he is leasing out Data Centers LOL." However, he is wrong. It was only a week prior that you didn't even know how to use guiminer before you started offering mining contracts and rig hosting.
• In this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36032.msg445181#msg445181) a senior member gave you very straightforward and honest advice. You then brutally attack him for it. Tasty Champa replies "dam man, I wasn't trying to be a dick. I was sincerely helping you." I actually felt sorry for the guy for the way you treated him.
• You seem to take advice very poorly. Another member again is just trying to help you out, and you come back with this sarcastic and immature (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44904.msg536227#msg536227) response. Unbelievable.
• Even in this very thread, you show yourself acting like a child. iamzill posts legimate concerns (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45438.msg543088#msg543088), and you come back on the offensive, with personal insults and attacks. It is appalling behavior.

Ontop of your damning post history we also have these problems:

1) No photos at all
2) Your identity is anonymous
3) All we know of your location is Idaho.

Talk about a scam waiting to happen. I wouldn't go near this "company". I'd advise others not to do so as well. Don't bother attacking me, I already have you on ignore. Unblocked for now.

Alphy

So what you're saying is that it's a new FlipPro alt?

Got feisty up in here didn't it?

No parents house here, guys.  I know you all like to project your own situation on everyone, but alas, tis not the case. 

I am 30, married, own my own home, and pay my power bill like a big boy.  Keep on trucking and you too may be able to have all this someday. 

I guess this is pointless since you ae ignoring me, but I will briefly respond.  I apologize for the somewhat coarse and sarcastic responses, but I felt that I was responding in kind.  Perhaps I was hasty.  Mea Culpa.

You act as if a person cannot learn a great deal in a small amount of time.  My first miner early this year ran at 15 MH/s.  I know run a network of 26 machines hashing at over 10,000 MH/s.  I learned from mistakes, picked up a lot of good advice, and now have one of the larger mining ops I have come across. 

I am not sure how not knowing as much 2 months ago as I do today disqualifies one from offering a professional service.  Seems somewhat arbitrary.  This is Bitcoin, not open heart surgery.  Let's face it, mining is fairly straightforward once you learn the ropes. 

Again, I apologize for the sarcasm and abruptness.....I felt much the the legitimate advice I was given was not so kindly given. 

 

Just out of curiosity, where would be the value in selling a contract to someone, then renting out the hash-rate from someone else?  How could you make that work?

My biggest problem is certain people on this forum will scream "scam" no matter what evidence is provided.  If I post pictures, they will say the pics are photoshoped.  If I post a read-out of our BTC prodution for the last 30 days, they will claim we made it in excel.  If I post the names of people we have been a great business partner too, they will claim we have multiple accounts.

Maybe I was a little harsh in my first response, I let my frustration come through. 

We are willing to provide evidence that we are legitimate, and would like your suggestions (we are re-considering posting pictures per you request).  We genuinely want this to work, and are being completely straight-forward.

The whole chicken and egg thing is killer.

You claimed your credibility lies with your past history of offering mining contracts. I just pointed out that that "the ability of offer mining contracts" does not imply "owning mining equipment". If Alice wanted build credibility, she can just rent 9000 MH/s for 35BTC per week and then offer "mining contracts" for 32 BTC per week. It only costs Alice 3BTC per week to build credibility while appearing like she operates a huge mining farm. You have to understand that from my personal perspective there is 0 evidence to differentiate you from Alice so far. A simple set of pictures can change that.  

Yes, pictures can be photoshoped. But snapping pictures is cheap and easy, while photoshoping multiple megabyte sized photos are not. Yes, some people will scream "scam" no matter what. But if you post two dozen high resolution pictures of each of your locations, then anyone still screaming "scam" will just look like nut jobs.

You'll need to post substantial proof within 24 hours if you want to build some credibility. We've been through this game before (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29696.0), and it's infuriating. Photos and video will help a lot. No excuses, no explanations, no delaying or putting off. Just link photos from imgur and a video from youtube. If you don't, you will lose all credibility instantly and you'll have zero chance building it back up. You'll never meet a more cautious, picky, skeptical, paranoid, risk-adverse group of people in your life. You'll have to lay down every card you got or just go away.

hi yochdog, you say you can do 15GH/s... is this in addition to the 10GH/s I have already contracted for september 27th through to october 27th?

No, I believe we can only go to 15 GH/s total.  Your contract is locked and ready.  Part of our ongoing operations discussed in our business plan.

Makes sense.  I was only looking at it from the perspective of a business....not just trying to build credibility. 

Well that thread was interesting.  Wow.

Alright, I suppose we were a bit presumptuous in our approach.  We are going to take some time today and go around to our 3 locations and take some photos of the machines.

We will not be giving a video tour, of the place, but we will post some video of the miners hashing away.

You are running a bitcoin business and you don't care about BTC/USD? I'm sorry but you are drinking the kool-aid too deeply. It's an important factor in mining because your electricity and rent costs are tied up in this. It's also a leading indicator on difficulty, so it's kind of like saying you don't care about difficulty.

What is your stance on FPGA versus video cards?

We probably should have addressed this a little more directly in the business plan.  Our cost structure is very, very low.  As we own the two office locations already for other ventures, we do not charge ourselves "Rent".  As for electricity cost, only the residectial location has a meaningful amount of power expense.  The office buildings we are in have pooled utility expense, so our increase in cost is barely perceptible.  That is why the BTC/USD exchange rate does not matter that much to us....we really don't need to convert that much BTC to USD.   

Hope that helps. 

FPGA mining is a business risk that investors will have to weigh before deciding to invest.  We are aware of the threat, but are willing to continue mining despite the risk.

This is going to have to be done in stages, until I get down to the offices later today.

Here are the empty boxes of a little less than half our GPU's:  https://i.imgur.com/1L8TJ.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/1L8TJ.jpg)

Here is a miner in a spare room: https://i.imgur.com/Zeu9Z.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/Zeu9Z.jpg)

Here is the same miner with the side panel removed:  https://i.imgur.com/2jrAd.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/2jrAd.jpg)

A picture of our 24 port switch and server chasis:  https://i.imgur.com/bMpXO.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/bMpXO.jpg)

3 more mining rigs in home office:  https://i.imgur.com/qF72o.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/qF72o.jpg)

side panel removed on the miner on the left:  https://i.imgur.com/RJLR7.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/RJLR7.jpg)

side panel removed on the miner on the right:  https://i.imgur.com/nZumT.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/nZumT.jpg)

The miner in the middle is identical to picture 3

a picture of a miner in the bedroom:  https://i.imgur.com/iYnXB.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/iYnXB.jpg)

side panel removed on bedroom miner, with 5970 ready to go back in:  https://i.imgur.com/AAf66.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/AAf66.jpg)


That is a start, more to follow.

Forgot to post this one, a 6970 hashing away in our living room HTPC:  https://i.imgur.com/FLk4E.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/FLk4E.jpg)

Very impressive.

You made an interesting choice going with dell boxes. That's different from most other farms out there. If you can get a large number of off lease/used dell machines then it's definitely more cost effective than open frame solutions.

You hit it on the head in regards to the Dell boxes.  Believe it or not, all of the Dell machines were collecting dust in a back room.  It was a great way to start a farm.

Here are some photos of the first office location:

Here are some more empty GPU boxes.  I know ya'all love GPU porn:  https://i.imgur.com/hgVAn.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/hgVAn.jpg)

There are 6 workstations that are identical, and look like this:  https://i.imgur.com/04xr3.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/04xr3.jpg)

Here is the side panel removed from a workstation:  https://i.imgur.com/yAnf7.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/yAnf7.jpg)

and another:  https://i.imgur.com/RjTga.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/RjTga.jpg)

and a third:  https://i.imgur.com/dIlgt.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/dIlgt.jpg)

my pride and joy, matching poweredge servers.  2 6-core xeons each.  Unreal power:  https://i.imgur.com/YjyLc.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/YjyLc.jpg)

a custome build stuffed in a back room, alongside another dell box:  https://i.imgur.com/1GqRQ.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/1GqRQ.jpg)

did not bother taking the side panel off this one:  https://i.imgur.com/x1F9n.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/x1F9n.jpg)


Am I getting close to convincing some of you we are for real?

Photos are a good start, but they don't address the "walking away with everyone's money" problem. I think your company will definitively attract some people who are willing to put up with the risk, but the more details you can reveal about yourself the more people will be willing to do business with you. Are you able to identify yourself? Have your incorporated your company or organized it in any legal sense? Do you have an address, perhaps a P.O. box? The more we know about you and your company, the less likely it is for you to walk away with peoples money (being able to track you down and prosecute if necessary), which will result in a much larger business clientele.

You really dont understand how shares work do you? You cant set the price of the shares as you wish, by saying 0.1btc per share with 1000 shares, your automatically valueing your "company" at 100btc... for what exactly? you dont have anything.

Since Alfalfa pointed out that I can be fairly condescending is my responses, I will go easy on this one.  Really though, your post is silly.

To say I don't understand how shares work, considering what I do for a living outside of Bitcoin, is stupid.  If you would take the time to read the proposal, or had any knowledge of how share sales actually work, you would see how off-base you are.

When a company offers shares to the public for the first time, they absolutely set an acceptable range for pricing.  In terms if valuing the company, you really did not read a bit of the proposal did you?  .1 BTC is what the monthly dividend will be set at, not what we are willing to sell shares for. 

Finally, we don't have anyting?  What in God's name are you talking about?  We have a hardware investment of over $7,000 and monthly BTC production in excess of 150 BTC.  How exactly is that having nothing?

Seriously, if you don't take the time to educate yourself on the matter, just don't post.   

I think the point that the other poster was trying to make is that you seem to have valued your company at $42,800 (based on the current BTC of 5.35) without offering support for that figure.  Based on your numbers, monthly revenue from mining would be ~ $802 with 10% of that amount being returned to shareholders.  Projected earnings don't justify the $40,000+ valuation and neither does your capital investment to date, so the question  of how you arrived at that figure is not an unreasonable one.

I completely agree valuation is a legitimate conversation to have, I just would like the person asking to have the figures correct first.

lets talk about it for a second.  Again, I think even you are a mis-interpreting what we are proposing.

Lets talk exclusively in terms of BTC, as that is what we are truly interested in.  We are not trying to get rich here, we simply want to create a truly legitimate BTC investment.  

Our monthly production will exceed 150 BTC.  By paying out .1 BTC per share, PER MONTH, we are in reality paying out roughly 66% (100 BTC) of monthly revenue, not 10% as you claim.  Right there, any valuation analysis you present subsequent to that assumption will be deeply flawed.

If you buy 1 share of BitCO for 8 BTC, you will be entitled to .1 BTC per month in dividends, or 1.2 BTC per year.  That is a 15% yield per annum.  Any serious investor will tell you that type of yield is very high.  However, since this is a brand new concept, we are comfortable pricing the shares at 8 and offering such an attractive yield.  We feel it will be beneficial to the Bitcoin community.  

Does that help?

PS, just as a follow up, we figure we are offering shares in the company at roughly 6x earnings....hardly an outlandish multiple.   ;)

tbh i didnt read

LOL....well see, there ya go! 

didnt read your replys i meant. goes on and on and on... but seriously learn about shares

Welp, there's the sleaziness every bitcoin operation has to have.  Most miners have 50-75% of their revenue eaten up by their power bills, but you've managed to negate this problem by spreading the cost to others without their consent.  I'm sure the other businesses in your building(s) would love to know you're running a dozen computers at full power drain 24 hours a day.

Have you projected how long it will take you to get solvent? (remember, revenue =/= profit, common bitcoin mistake) How will you handle the price of bitcoins going down, and the difficulty going up?

But the mining reward gets cut in half in ~1yr. I'm guessing the dividends will be cut in half as well..?

ROFLMAO.  Once again, your initial post shows you have no clue what you are talking about.  Move on loser. 

How is it sleazy at all?  I have a 5 year lease agreement that very clearly lays out what is allowed.  We are absolutely in compliance with that agreement.
 
I love how people just assume to know everything. 

We are already solvent, so I am not sure what your question is.  Are you asking how long it will take us to pay off our capital investment? 

Like we have said a few times already, the price of BTC/USD is not a primary focus for us.  We seek to mine BTC, take investment in BTC, and pay dividends in BTC.  The obsession with the exchange rate by some people is completely missing the point of what we are trying to accomplish here. 

Finally, last time I checked the difficulty has dropped 3 or 4 times in a row.  It is our belief that we have hit a ceiling in terms of difficulty increases. 

It is a concern, but we (like many people), are hoping that transaction fees will make up some of the shortfall.

Also, we hope to have expanded the operation enough to offset some of the 50% drop in rewards. 

No, it is too low. SERIOUSLY too low.

This is a high risk investment with a high risk of loosing the value after half or one year of return. THis is not a guaranteed bond by someone with a balance sheet. This i not an investment into a significantly growing business. I wont touch that with my investment side, sorry. Not for a yearly 15% yield. Make that 150% and w can talk - then after half a year I recouped most of my investment.

Why would we give away the company like that?  If we are going to pay a 150% yield, we will keep the shares to ourselves. 

Strange people who come out to comment indeed. 

At current rewards/hardware, it'd take 6.6yrs to recoup the initial investment.  During these 6.6yrs, the mining reward is expected to half itself twice.  The main 'oomph' from the next-gen 7x AMD is a massive reduction in power consumption, with little predicted mh/s increase.  But as your power is already not included, the next-gen hardware upgrades won't increase yield (as much).

If transaction fees -don't- recoup the lost mining rewards, after 1 yr my expected break-even time becomes 11.2yrs. 5yrs into that it halves again, leaving me still at ~12yrs.

All this based on an idea (Bitcoin) which hasn't been around along as the initial investment return period.

I'm not fancy at math or nothin, but I don't see how I this current proposal would be a good investment.  Maybe I'll end up with egg on my face, who knows.

You make some great points.  We think we are positioned well to make our company a success.....however, like any investment, there are risks. 

One thing you don't consider is difficulty.  What if it keeps falling?  Suddenly our production numbers go way up and we can aggresively raise the dividend.  Nothing is static with Bitcoin.....both to the negative AND positive. 

Thanks for the insightful and well thought out post....we could use a few more like yours. 

JohnJ brings up some good points.

A 15% return is not an acceptable risk to reward ratio for an investment with this level of risk.

Average return on an angel investor or venture capital deal is usually >200% over 3-4 year incubation period.  No VC don't achieve those kinds of returns because ... most deals fail.  The few deals which are highly profitable offset the majority of deals which are a total loss.

A 15% return simply doesn't justify the risk of capital especially for a first round offering from an unknown entity.

You are assuming no capital appreciation.  VC's hit their home runs with wildly successful IPO's, not steady dividends.

Also, please (this aimed to everyone), be fair in your presentation.  It is priced for a 15% return PER YEAR.  Not total return.  I love how you cite a 1 year dividend yield and compare it to a 4 year total return for a VC investor.  Not really an apples to apple comparison. 

Wildly successful IPOs happen when there's a market-changing product/service. Google took over the world of search. Groupon started a new trend in advertising.

I don't see how mining bitcoins is going to become wildly successful. You might make some small profit here and there, but there's not much that will be able to change your output massively, at least not in a positive way. Sure, you can buy more rigs, but it's still going to be very slow and steady. There is no critical mass, unless you're going for the 51% or writing your own mining code. Small potential for appreciation, high risk, low return.

ETA: risk/appreciation/return etc

I was not claiming to be the next Google....I was pointing out that comparing a VC funded company that pays no dividend to one like BitCO that pays a 15% divi is a bad comparison.  Two totally different things. 

I wasn't confused about that.  Just to be clear A 15% annual return is insufficient for the risk of the deal.  Paying out dividends in the short term doesn't materially mitigate risk.  If the company/deal folded after a say a year 85% (instead of 100%) of capital would still be lost.    No doubt you will get some people to sign up but they are being under-compensated for the risk they are taking.  

My comparison to Angel investor of VC is accurate.  I mean you aren't a "blue chip" mining corporation with a lock of low cost way of mining and paying a solid low risk dividend.  It is a startup in the venture capital phase.  Adding a dividend doesn't reduce the risk.  Total return adjusted for risk is all that matters.   Nobody investing in something this high risk needs the cashflow that a regular dividend provides but they do want to be compensated for the risk of losing their investment.   15% is simply insufficient even for a "normal" company startup.    Combine that with the anonymous & irreversible nature of bitcoin and the inability for anyone to do any true Due Diligence you are just behing dishonest with yourself if you can't see the VC comparison as valid.

I like what you are trying to do but a good idea at the wrong price is still a bad deal.

What would be the right price in your mind?

This is going to sound like a copout but I don't know.  :)  The issue may be that for me any return high enough to warrant the risk makes the business plan nonviable.  I believe this is currently freezing up a lot of capital in bitcoin economy. 

Still if I had to guess lets compare it to me buying another mininig rig.

If I were to build a new miner.  Say 4x 5970s, 1500W powersupply, cheap MB, CPU, RAM usb drive running linuxcoin, open frame rig ... ballpark.  2.8GH costing $2800.   After electrical costs ($0.10 per kWh) I would net at current difficulty & price 30BTC or $150 a month giving me a monthly return of 5%.

So I could buy shares from you returning 1.25% per month or buy my own rig returning 5% a month.  Now obviously difficult may increase and/or price may drop but if it does it will affect my profitability equally if I own a rig or own shares so for now lets just assume the difficult/price relationship remains solid.

Now there are some difference between me owning/running my own rig and owning shares.
1) w/ shares I don't need to do anything. 
2) w/ shares I don't need to devote space/heat/noise to the venture.
3) w/ owning a rig I have material ownership of the assets (I can sell parts on ebay for partial return if things go south)
4) w/ owning a rig I have no risk of fraud.

Honestly I don't think the pros of shares outweigh risk of shares but lets say an investor considers them equivalent that would put fair return @ 60% annually.  The company wouldn't need to pay all of that as a dividend as long as it has a plan to build out capacity but I would want to see at least half that as a dividend.   

So 30% would be the minimum for me (personally) to consider it.  Given the higher risk I think it would take a return of 40%-50% before I would consider it. 

Not a copout at all....you made a great case for how you would personally value the shares.  I really appreciate you taking the time to lay it out.  

I am going to go read it again, and then think it over some more.  

Bitcoin is supposed to be a "revolutionary" new form of currency yet so many people are caught up in very narrow forms of thought.

I think many people in this thread are not getting how this works or what is being presented.

 ::)

I'm glad you backed up all your points and counter-arguments. yochdog, I can see where SOME of your frustration comes form.

lol.. geek

Pardon my french, but this has got to be one of the stupidest investments I've seen. An investor ponies up 8 BTC for the chance (and I'd say a very low chance) of getting 1.2 BTC back in a years time? Idiotic. I'd be happy to offer double that return to anyone with BTC they want to get rid of invest.

Why should I invest into that then? If you can not make back most of my money before the next risk cfactors hit (which are the 7xxx series and the drop in payout) then why should I invest? ;)

Seriously, 15% isa good yield for a B style bond or a viable long term business perspectiv, but this is missing here - you will run into significant depreciations left and right and your mid termfinancial credibility is bad to start with. This is not a gold mine where gold will still guaranteed to bein demand in 20 years. I would expect the hardware cost to be recouped in a year or... the risk is too high.

What an amazingly well thought, well argued post. 

Thank you for giving me more reason to doubt the future of the human race. 

Clearly someone who does NOT get what is being offered here.

It goes like this, for those who may have missed it...

There are risks, but like with ANY investment, there are risks. Even Fortune 500 companies with long track records manage to screw people over, so putting the risk and trust elements as equal, here's the rest:

You are not spending the Bitcoins. Everyone is talking like the 8BTC is gone and now you have to wait for your monthly dividends to make it back.
When you buy shares in a public company is your money gone or can you sell the shares? Is the dividend on top of the share value or is that now your only source of value in the purchase you have made? This is pretty basic stuff.

- You put in 8BTC for a share
- As long as you have a share you get a % of the mining production every month
- Should you decide to sell your share, any amount you sell it for above 8BTC is a profit and any amount below is a loss, minus dividends paid out

It's not that complex and it's pretty fundamental in terms of structure. The risk level is obvious.

OP's attitude towards some of the "brilliant" posts in this thread are certainly just.

Why should you invest?  Let me answer with another question:  What are your alternatives if you are looking to invest BTC?  

Could you go set up your own mining farm and start hashing away?  Sure, but that takes time, resources, and the payback period is getting longer by the day.  Assuming you can build a 2,500 MH/s farm for $2,500, you would earn just about 522 BTC in a year.  At the current exchange rate, that would just about equal the cost of your farm.  But half of that (or more) is going to go to electricity!  So now you are looking at closer to two years (or more) for a break-even.  

Long story short, perhaps a 15% yield is not sufficient, but don't compare it to non-existent alternatives.  

So how can I give my money to a guy running a "mature" business who has a Will Ferrell avatar and get's hilariously defensive when people dare ask questions about his "share sale" he spent two hours coming up with?  Never change FlipPro/Vegetta! :D 

And when this anonymous unofficial pseudo-business crashes, no one will buy those shares, and those 8BTC will be gone.

Yes, I covered that when I posted:


Generally a crash = zero.
So that would be the worst case loss scenario from what I said.

and


At least the level of understanding in this thread is consistent.  ;D

Just an update:

As a way for forum members to verify our stated capacity, here is a link to the Deepbit mining team page:  https://deepbit.net/teams/ (https://deepbit.net/teams/)

We are team "BitcorpMiningCO".  We are generally in the top 30 of all mining teams.

Also, we have lined up our first investors, and are going to encourage them to report back to the forum on our conduct and results. 

We will be updating out financials to reflect September production numbers after we close out the month tomorrow.  The numbers look great. 

-BitCorp

Why would anyone invest in someone who replies so veraciously to direct questions?

People are asking you direct questions and questioning aspects of your business for a reason. This is what investors do prior to investing. When people are gambling their own money they have a right to know what the stakes are.

FFS.

Seriously, learn about shares. Learn about valuations. Maybe attend a business course or something, or even read a book about business. Maybe consider taking a course on communication skills too while you are at it.

You've had a lot of good advice in this thread. I suggest you might consider taking some of it.

You might not be a scammer, but you have a terrible approach to business.

Good luck.

I would love to hear your lecture on shares and valuation.  Seriously. 

You may want to look up the definition of "Veracious", BTW. 

Another update:

Tuned up the farm today, and we have just passed 11,000 MH/s.  Combined with the drop in difficulty, our production is climbing rapidly. 

We have lined up our first investors, and are happy to be partners with them.

More information will follow in the coming weeks/months regarding future investment rounds. 

Thanks for reading!

Final numbers for September are in the books.  BitCorp had a very successful month:

Production (in BTC)                               164.05
Operating expenses (in BTC)                     44.22

Free BTC flow available to shareholders     119.83

Dividends paid                                       100.00



Moreover, we are on pace for an even better October.  If we maintain our current pace, we will mine nearly 185 BTC this month, with very little increase in operating expenses.  

Thank you to our first investors, glad to have you on board!  

I believe that i was the first person to state early in this thread that i wished to be an investor/angel & I ebay messaged the OP & had a positive reply re my 1,000+ positive feedbacks there over 10 years+ but did not receive any offer to invest in this venture or even polite notifications of why i may have been overlooked so as to at least keep me on board as a potential future backer, weird...

Edit: My offer was posted to the original yochdog thread & I also eBay messaged same day as original post, early on

Hey there, we did respond to your eBay message.  We apologize if it did not come through.  Please PM us and we will be glad to discuss options.

October is on pace to be far and away our best month ever.  Through the first 12 days of the month, we have produced 73.96 BTC.  Given the near certainty of another drop in difficulty, we should have our first 200+ BTC month.  

If we feel that this is a sustainable pace, we will be increasing our dividend payout.



We would like to begin lining up investors for our second round of share sales.  We sold roughly 10% of the company in our first round, and would like to sell the same amount this time.  If you are interested, please contact us either through the forum, or Bitcorpmining@gmail.com.

Thanks!

You're doubling the number of available shares. Will the dividend payout be halved or will you be doubling production?

Sounds like a good program, too bad I'm lacking the BTC to join in.

I believe it's his shares being sold off, so he'll be getting less of the dividend.

Not doubling the amount of shares at all.  We have 1,000 shares outstanding and there will never be more issued.  I think you are confusing what we mean by a second round of share sales.  Currently the company is owned approximately 90% by myself and my business partners, and 10% by outside investors.  We would like to sell another 10% of our shares to make that split 80/20.

Does that make more sense?  Our current dividend is .1 BTC per month, or 1.2 BTC per year.  We believe we will increase the dividend by 25-50% within the next 60 days.

Exactly. 

Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the answer.

As we head into the last few days of October, we want to give an update on our operations.  It looks like we are going to fall just short of producing 200 BTC for the month.  Given the massive DDOS attacks during the month, and the difficulty resets not coming as fast as we anticipated, this is not a surprise.  

Fortunately, it looks like the next reset will take the difficulty down another 200,000+,  which will be a fantastic boost for our mining operations.  Next week we will be adding an additional 2 GH/s of capacity to our primary mining location.  This is our first major capacity increase since we began taking outside investors.  With this expansion, we expect our average hash rate to fall between 12-14 GH/s, given the inevitable downtime with so many machines.  

We are excited by our success thusfar, and look forward to attracting more like-minded individuals as investors.  We would like to sell an additional 79 shares in the next 7 days in order to bring the ownership structure in line with our current goal of an 80/20 split.  

If you are interested in making an investment, or just want to ask some questions, please do not hesitate in contacting us.  We will respond to this thread, as well as e-mails: Bitcorpmining@gmail.com

How will the increased production affect dividend payouts?

For the upcoming dividend payment (Oct. 31), we are keeping the dividend at .1 BTC.  This is due to using excess BTC to fund the capacity expansion next week. 

For the payout on November 30, the dividend will most likely be increased 25%. 

With only 12 hours left in the month, we are able to give preliminary numbers for October. 

Production:         189 BTC (estimated)
expenses:             66 BTC
Free BTC flow:     123 BTC


We will finalize these numbers either tomorrow or Wednesday, but these estimates will be very close to the final tally. 


Now for more exciting news....

With the recent drops in difficulty, and the fact that we have recently surpassed 12,000 MH/s, BitCorp will most likely produce over 300 BTC in November.  Given that our expenses will stay relatively stable, we will have significant room to increase the dividend.  It is our preliminary plan to increase the payout by 25% to .125 BTC per month.  This makes the annual yield on the shares equal 18%.  Not too shabby. 

October dividends on .1 BTC per share will be sent out within the next 24 hours to shareholders of record. 

I'm not an investor here, but it's refreshing to see (what seems to be) a legitimate mining company doing well.  I know you got a lot of flak in the beginning, but i haven't noticed any other qualms and you continue to update.

Good work!

Thanks you for the positive vibes! 

So far from what I have seen this is hands-down the best mining company to date.

I have received another dividend :)

We have closed the books on October....here are the numbers:

Production:         187.56 BTC
expenses:             66.00 BTC
Free BTC flow:     121.56 BTC


I will update these numbers on the front page as well.

The drop in difficulty has sent our production way up.....November is off to a GREAT start.  We have a couple more GPU's that we can add once we find an open PCI slot....but after that we are probably close to maxing out.  Unfortunately we learned that we are running on 20 AMP breakers, so we are limited on how many machines we can place on each circuit. 

The good news is with 12-14 GH/s, we can mine a whole lot of BTC. 

Anyone interested in purchasing some shares, get in touch with us.  We would love to have a few more people on board.

  Whats to stop you from dropping in another breaker and a few feet of good wiring? Do it yourself and get an elec friend to sign off on it. ;p  Or, don't tell anyone and save a few bucks, though I don't recommend that method.

And make it 230V while you are at it.  Double the capacity and higher PSU efficiency.  I am considering doing this in my garage and I only have half the hashing power you do.  ;D

We looked into it....but the maintenence guys said it would take a lot of work (ie, money) to do.  We would have to pull all new wire a significant distance from the breaker room.  At this point, it just did not pencil unfortunately. 

Hey there,

I was wondering if the drop in BTC/$ has changed your opinion in valuing the shares?  I don't think you could build a rig from scratch now and garner a 5% monthly yield.

Just wanted to re-visit now that the parameters have changed a bit.

BTW, we are raising our dividend to .125 BTC per month on Dec. 1.  That will make the yield 18% annualy. 

How things are going?

I would like to be an investor in this company.How many shares left and at what price?

Things are going great this month.  Thanks for asking!

We have averaged over 12,000 MH/s for the entire month so far, and are well on our way to producing over 300 BTC. 

We are going to do some small tweaks over the next few weeks, and hope to push our hashing speed to 13,000 MH/s. 

We are willing to sell another 143 shares to investors.  The price is 8 BTC per share.

Just PM us, or write us at Bitcorpmining@gmail.com.

Just wanted to give a quick update as we close in on the end of November. 

We have produced just over 300 BTC so far in November, with 2 days left in the month.  Our expenses were up a bit, but we should still have very healthy profit growth. 

Looking forward to the dividend increase on December 1!

Closed the books on November last night, and once again we had our best month yet!


Production (in BTC)                                      315.11
Operating Expenses (in BTC)                           90.50
Free BTC available to shareholders                  224.61


The dividend payment for November will be sent out to shareholders of record no later than midnight tonight, EST. 

Our goal for December is to produce 350 BTC. 

Our existing expansion plan is nearing an end.  We are around 90% of what is possible, and we will probably be unable to make it to our initial goal of 15 GH/s.  However, it does seem likely that we can top out around 14 GH/s. 

During the month of November, our major upgrade was swapping out 5x 5770's for 5850's.  We were able to aquire the 5850's for a very competitive price, and will spread the expense of those cards over the next 6 months of financials.

If you are in the market for some lightly used 5770's, let us know!

We added one shareholder during the month, and are glad to have them on board.  Please contact us if you would like to become a shareholder as well.   

Hi,
Just saw your post.I'm just looking around for the best price on an HD5770 GPU.I'm just interested in how much these will sell for from you compared to say other online shops.The reason I ask is if I need a spare GPU in future (to complement my HD6950) or as a fallback GPU (because the current PSU in my system can't cope with my HD6950 being so heavily OC'd and shuts itself down/freezes when overloaded.If I can find a good price on an HD5770,used I can continue mining until I make enough for a new PSU as a good PSU costs over £150 in UK=~$280 I think)

What would you be selling those HD5770 cards for? How much would they be in UK £ sterling plus shipping to UK (if from US/overseas)?

What performance can I expect from this GPU (HD5770) and what is the best OC that could be achieved in your experience without crashing? my HD6950 gets me 402 M/hashes (anything above that and PSU freezes my PC due to overloading)

Thank you

PM me and we can talk about the 5770.  I got just over 200 MH/s on each of them. 

Only 4 days left in December, and BitCorp is on pace to have our best production month yet!  It looks like we will easily produce 330+ BTC for the month.

In terms of profitability, that is a different story.  We have been on an aggressive upgrade plan the last 6 weeks, and the costs have been adding up. 

Some of the new hardware purchases:

4 x 5970
2 x rig enclosures
1 x 800 MH/s mining rig

We picked these up at very good prices, but still spent a significant amount of BTC!  We are going to handle the expense by amortizing the cost over the next 6 months.  The dividend will be held at .125 BTC per month per share. 

Some of the cost will be recouped by selling the hardware we are replacing. 

We currently have a spare 5830 and 2x 5770 if anyone is interested in getting them on the cheap.

Looking forward to getting over the 15 GH/s barrier! 

Just curious, why you do not offer your shares through GLBSE?

How do you transact the sales of shares and distribution of dividends?

Best,
SJ

Currently we are waiting on GLBSE to mature, or a better alternative to surface.  Share sales are conducted privately, and dividends are paid to the BTC address of record registered to the shares at the time of sale. 

Dividends were sent out tonight.  It was a great month....contact us with any questions! 

Just wanted to gloat a bit over how ignorant this post was.  :)

Hey Yochdog, I noticed you are using Deepbit - was just interested in your reasoning for this choice. (Not trying to start a flamewar or anything) It just seems to me that the associated fees might be something that would nibble into your business's profits, and I wondered how much the monthly difference revenue difference might be versus using some other pool. I assume you have explored other options, of course.  ;D

You certainly make a great point.....at this juncture, it is more about not wanting to take the time to change the setting on 30+ miners scattered around different locations, many without monitors. 

I kind of figured it as a cost of doing business, figuring we are sacrificing 3 coins every 10 days or so. 

I am sure one of these days I will get a wild hare up my a** and make the plunge in changing all the settings......have just been too focused on expansion for the last few months. 

If you are continuing to expand, you may find it extremely worthwhile to look into PXE booting your miners, assuming they are all on the same network. Then, you change a setting once and remotely reboot all machines, which pulls in the new settings.

Alternatively, cgminer recently obtained RPC control courtesy of a sizeable bounty - if you have a programmer friend, he could probably code up an app to change cgminer settings remotely.

PM sent

I realized we never updated our financials for the month of December, so here they are!

Production (in BTC)                             338.12
Operating Expenses (in BTC)                129.82     >:(
Free BTC flow                                      208.30


Dividends were sent out on the first of this month at a rate of .125 BTC per share.  We intend to keep that rate for the next 2 months, then consider another increase. 

We recently purchased some 7970's, and expect to reap significant efficiency gains from them.  Excited to see what they can do for us. 

-Bitcorp. 

can someone tell me the bitcorp p/e without making me visit the globesex website?

By my rough calculations, Bitcorp is priced at a P/E of 4.

I got there by taking the market cap of the company (8,000 BTC) and dividing it into my projections of annual income of 2,000 BTC.

Time for a mid-month update!

Things are going great through the fist 20 days of January.  We have generated revenue of just over 250 BTC, and should be able to easily exceed 350 for the entire month.

Capacity continues to grow beyond my initial expectations, with our peak hashing speed now sitting at 16,900 MH/s!!  I know believe with some more opportunistic tweaking and GPU upgrades we can reach the magical 20,000 MH/s, truly putting us in the elite of hashing operations. 

Now for the catch.....to hit these ever increasing hash rates, we have in the last 30 days purchased 4x 7970's, 2x 5970's, and one full mining rig capable over of 1,000 MH/s+.

These are obviously major expenses, and will keep our profits down for the next several months.  I will amortize the expense over the next 4-6 months, in order to maintain our dividend at current rates.  The upshot is that with the price of BTC seeing the substantial rise it has over the last 6 weeks, it takes much less BTC to purchase these upgrades than before!

Feel free to ask any questions!

UPDATE ON JAN 24th  We are making initial preparations for public listing on GLBSE!  Our ticker symbol is BTCMC (Bitcorp Mining Company).  Interested parties are welcome to purchase shares through GLBSE.  Current shareholders will continue to recieve dividends as promised, and need to contact us to transfer shares to GLBSE if desired.  

At this point, we are simply playing around with the beta version of GLBSE 2.0.....but plan on going live soon.  

Dividends were paid to shareholders of record thismorning.

Financials will be updated once we tally all the numbers.....we just recently switched pools to avoid fees, which should help in the long run, but hurt us a little during the transition. 

Is this plan moving forward?

Still waiting on the verion 2.0 to go live.  Once it does, I will be contacting all current shareholders with instructions on how to transfer shares to GLBSE for trading. 

Would it be possible to get an update like last month? Thnx

Working on it!  Been pretty swamped tuning up the shiney new 7970's, as well as re-jiggering rigs for more density.  It is like a waterfall effect as GPU's filter down through the rigs, with the least efficient getting spit out.  I will have an update at the end of this month that will lay out our plan for the next couple months, and recap the financials for the last 60 days.

Stay tuned.....

February is in the books, and we are very happy with our results.  We generated 416.44 BTC during the month, and pushed our mining speed to over 22,000 MH/s!  We are still working on getting everything stable at this speed, but our progress has been very encouraging.  Our build-out program is nearly complete and we plan on very little further investment until we can assess the impacts of the reduction in the rewards coming up. 

Production (in BTC)                             416.44
Operating Expenses (in BTC)                300.00     
Free BTC flow                                      116.44

We are amortizing the purchase of new hardware over the next several months, thus operating expenses will remain elevated during that time.  By mid-summer, we should be back to very low expenses and be turning a 300+ BTC profit. 

Financials have been updated on the first page. 

Exciting news to report to current as well as potential investors:

-Our average Hashing rate has increased to 23,500 MH/s!
-We are planning on listing shares on GLBSE within the next 6 weeks. 

We are investigating how we will transfer current owners shares onto the exchange, stay tuned. 

 ;D this is great i will be investing on glbse, also do you have some butterfly labs singles or other fpgas to help keep power costs down so better roi ??

Very exciting news!

Will have final numbers for the month of March soon, but here is our preliminary production:

433.34 BTC produced. 

I know that you are very busy, but I would appreciate seeing the final numbers for March if you get a chance.

Hey there, No worries at all.....it helps to have a friendly reminder once in a while!

Here they are:

Production:  431.11 BTC
Expenses:    300.00 BTC (including amortized cost of hardware to make an even 300)
Free BTC:    131.11 BTC

We are pretty much topped out on capacity for now.  I might be able to make incremental improvements, but nothing like the growth of the last 5 months.  Also, with difficulty rising fairly consistently, we might see our first production decline ever in April.  I am holding out hope we can squeeze out a small increase though! 

April is in the bag, and once again it looks like we hit a new record for BTC production. 


Preliminary number:  451.39 BTC


Dividends were sent out this morning to shareholders of record.  Once we get expenses tallied, we will post the final numbers as well as an update on GLBSE listing. 

Final numbers are in, and they did not change:

Production:  451.39
Expenses:    300.00 (should be last month of excessive expenses)
Free BTC:    151.39


GOOD NEWS!

We are now listed on GLBSE, and I we can transfer current shareholders to that platform if they desire.  Head on over and open an account, then get in touch with us with your username so we can transfer the assets. 

Ticker symbol is:  BTCMC

Glad to see you guys are still going strong with this. And now that you are on GLBSE I intend to purchase some shares in your company.

Cheers

Thanks buddy!  Good to hear. 

Why these huge share prices and not issuing more shares to increase liquidity?! Also you pay out these 0.125 BTC/month which would equal ~6 MH/s PPS per share. You claim to have 23.5 GH/s for 200 shares though - that would mean ~117 MH/s per share(!). Where does the income for the ~110 MH/s per share go?

Also I'd love to buy some shares, but if possible from the company itself, not just someone looking for a quick profit.

Well, being students of finance by trade, we believe that the underlying fundamentals matter, not share count.  We are considering a share split because so many people seem to care about price, despite meaning nothing in terms of return on investment. 

The excess production has been funding aggressive expansion for the last several months.  We have gone from 18,000 MH/s to nearly 30,000 MH/s.  That takes some serious money, hence the low payout.  Now that our build-out is nearly complete, more of the production is free for dividends.  This is why we plan on aggressively increasing the payout in the next 30-60 days. 

Make sense? 

Re. the stock split, I would be stoked if you go ahead with that.


Re. having shares on GLBSE, I find their "captcha" intolerable. Can sometimes go 50 attempts without success in logging on. And customer service is nil - there was no response to my e-mails about the captcha

I haven't had issues with it, but some have mentioned that you may need to wait a few seconds after entering it before clicking the button to continue. No idea why.

UPDATE

We have a good idea of what our May production will be, and all I can say is "wow". 

We are going to have gross proceeds of nearly 600 BTC, absolutely smashing our expectations.  We will get final numbers in the next week or so.

The stock split will occur tonight, and dividends will also be going out later today. 

If you have any concerns, please let us know. 

And PLEASE start trading on GLBSE.....we need to get some volume going.  Symbol is BTCMC. 

Dividends have been paid for May.

the rate was .015 BTC per share (formerly .15 BTC, prior to stock split) 

How does this share split work for us on GLBSE? Should I send you my shares and you send 10x back or how does this work?
//DeaDTerra

DeadTerra, I already transferred your newly issued shared to your account.....you should have the exact same ownership percentage as you did before.  Simply take your new total divided by 10,000 for verification.

Thanks! 

Okay thank you very much for the smooth and fast procedure :)
//DeaDTerra

Attention all current shareholders:


If you could, please setup an account on GLBSE and then ask us to transfer your shares over.  Going forward, it is going to be very cumbersome to pay dividends on GLBSE as well as to holders not holding their shares there.

Basically, we would have to pay every holder twice.....once on GLBSE, then transfer the dividend again to your individual addresses for the shares held in trust.  

You can either PM us with your GLBSE account name, or e-mail us at Bitcorpmining@gmail.com


EDIT:  Front page has been updated with current financials, expansion plans, as well as info on our NEW location. 

May financials will be posted soon.

Yay hello!

I am one of the original investors...

What happened to my shares? (And how I figure to where I sent my dividends???)

Also, anyone know how to ressurect my GLBSE account? (I used the very first version of GLBSE when you had lots of keys and signing and whatnot)

This was resolved through PM.....just fyi

Indeed it was!

Except the GLBSE part... (I made a new account, my old one I am failing to recover, need Nefario to return)

Yochdog:

Just in case GLBSE were to ever go offline or be otherwise out of commission for whatever reason, do you maintain a constantly updated list of the beneficial owners of BTCMC shares so that you could continue to distribute dividends?

With the high mortality of bitcoin enterprises (bitcoinca,Tradehii, etc.) I hope that you have a pre-emptive backup plan for the security of your shreholders. No matter how secure BTCMC itself is, the GLBSE platform potentially has hacker or other vulnerabilities.

Unfortunately at this point I do not.  When I administered the share ownership on my own, I obviously mantained such information.  With trading now taking place between 3rd parties without my involvement, I have no right to that information. 

I am willing to ask Nefario to provide it, but I am doubtful he would oblidge out of privacy concerns. 

I understand your concern, and obviously it is a weakness at the moment. 

Can you think of any possibilities for mitigating this (unnecessary?) risk factor?

Hey Yochdog:

Where do your shareholder stand? Will you be qable to distribute the next dividend?

May I at least assume that you will not be sending dividends to GLBSE and will rather hold or reinvest them until an equitable solution emerges?

Hey Yochdog:

Can we get a statement of October operating results and balance statement?  And any progress at all on being able to distribute dividends once again? There needs to be a secondary plan beyond "waiting to hear from Nefario", don't you agree?

Agreed, a statement of how much has been put aside per share & with regards to proving share ownership independently of Nefario I have held a constant number for many months & have promptly withdrawn from GLBSE the full amount of the dividends paid each month to the same address of mine that I still control over & the TX records in the blockchain demonstrate this.

I will be posting October results by week end.

In terms of a secondary plan, I am not sure there is any viable path.  If Nefario will not provide records of ownership, there is absolutely no way to verify claims.

If you have any suggestions or insight, please share. 

I have 500 shares which I posted about earlier in this thread & Nefario confirmed, I kept them as there was no buy side interest for anything like that amount, on the 2nd Oct 2012 I received the dividend payment for these of 7.494 btc which I withdrew to my wallet from GLBSE the same day, I can find the TX in the blockchain if needed and also those of my previous withdrawing of the dividends, this I believe is about as close to proof as we can hope to get unless Nefario releases the records which I still expect & hope that he will.

It seems apparent from other threads on this forum that Nefario will communicate with security issuers who contact (phone) him. May I suggest that you contact Nefario and offer him a significant portion of the October operating earnings of our company for him to supply you with the transaction records. There is no way to hold a vote on that obviously, but I believe you to have the majority anyway, and obviously an executive decision is needed for the good of all shareholders.

I believe you to be an honest and honourable and honest man, and this is a best (but slightly odious) solution under the horrific circumstances.

I will attempt to contact him, but will provide no personal information.  I do not trust the man based on what I have read and heard from other members. 

Can you point me to the thread where he provides contact info, or where someone has stated phoning him works? 

Thanks, Yochdog:

Please see my recent posts, including this one:

       Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Payment Claims (Announce your payment here)    on: October 23, 2012, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: DeaDTerra on October 23, 2012, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 23, 2012, 08:11:28 PM
Quote from: DeaDTerra on October 23, 2012, 08:01:55 PM
Personally I don't think James is a crook

So holding hostage the property of hundreds of innocent bystanders -not to mention all the rest he has done- is fine for you?
Then you see no problem even in bank robberies I guess.
I have not yet confirmed that this is the reason why he has not released the information to the issuers and I find it unlikely. As it's probably not the issuers that have the extra BTC but the asset holders. In which case a personal boycott of each person which did not send back the double payment would be more efficient.
I will call James and have a chat with him I am sure that he's not holding anyone hostage over this and that it can be explained.
//DeaDTerra


How is it that you have this privileged phone access to Nefario? Why hasn't Nefario been updating to this forum all along with his intentions and actions (and problems)? I would appreciate information to come directly from Nefario, not processed through the filter of your reported phone conversations. Nefario's lack of communication has been the problem all along.


and this:

4     Economy / Securities / Re: GLBSE Payment Claims (Announce your payment here)    on: October 20, 2012, 07:49:20 AM
Quote from: dishwara on October 20, 2012, 07:32:49 AM
Perfect business trick.
Nefario was given scammer tag, coz he didn't payback the bitcoins & assets in GLBSE.

Now he sent double payments & ordered to return the bitcoins, which makes whoever received the bitcoins & not giving it back has to get scammer tag.
How many persons will be given scammer tag in this forum for not paying back the double payment?

@Theymos: what you going to do about this?


There is no trick. Nefario holds the records of my asset ownership. He sends that to the issuer and me, I send him back any overpayment. Since your honesty is above reproach, you act as escrow, o.k.? Passes your morality test?
Reply

Please see bolded statement below. DeaDTerra has his phone number, and you have the contact info for DeaDTerra I think.



[/color][/color]

Yes I have James phone number and yes I have given it to asset issuers who wish to get in contact with James under the conditions that they do not spread it or share it with anyone else and that they don't misuse it to threaten or otherwise harass James, I don't want him to have to switch phone numbers because of the mass spam to his phone or the constant threats. Then we will end up with the same thing as the forums that he goes away until things calm down and I would at least like to have a open communication line with him.
//DeaDTerra

gigavps received asset list  :o



yochdog, any news as yet re yours? Apparently he's releasing about 4 asset holders lists per day atm.

Still waiting.....i e-mailed again today to see if we are in line. 

http://blog.glbse.com/issuers-being-given-shareholder-lists

Any news or lists as yet?

Did these get posted, sorry if I missed it somewhere, anyway also November results due this weekend, it would be good to know what was owed per share for each month that hasn't been paid out as yet & hopefully it can all soon get resolved if you now have the lists or are about to get them.

You are on the wrong thread.  The results are posted in the other thread regarding BTCMC

OK I see them there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85443.msg1330916#msg1330916)

Can you post November's results there too now with how much was earned per share please & update your shareholders re the progress made in obtaining the list of asset holders from Nefario & making us good on our share ownership & back dividends, many thanks.