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Title: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: petercyr on September 28, 2011, 04:16:06 PM https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/end-legal-tender-laws-allow-competing-currencies/0N8RLJ8K?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/end-legal-tender-laws-allow-competing-currencies/0N8RLJ8K?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl)
Quote we petition the obama administration to: End Legal Tender Laws & Allow for Competing Currencies The Federal Reserve System has done a miserable job, with or without a gold standard, of providing the correct amount of currency for the economy. One Federal Reserve Note in 2011 has the same purchasing power as three cents in 1913. This massive fiat money inflation has negatively affected the standard of living of all Americans. The Fed's manipulation of interest rates also correlates directly to the boom & bust cycles in the economy, which has resulted in terrible mis-allocations of labor & capital. The Fed has lost credibility and should not have a currency monopoly. Congress has left us in a very vulnerable position relying on the FRN. The time has come to allow for currencies such as gold, silver, bitcoin, and whatever the market will bear to compete with the Federal Reserve Note. Created: Sep 26, 2011 Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: ThomasV on September 28, 2011, 04:21:00 PM do you have to be a US citizeon to sign the petition?
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: FreeMoney on September 28, 2011, 04:37:53 PM I don't get it. Why do you need their permission, but they don't need yours?
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: petercyr on September 28, 2011, 04:40:21 PM I don't get it. Why do you need their permission, but they don't need yours? You don't really need it but having their blessing would go a long way... And if it was to go the other way and bitcoin was outlawed, it wouldn't stop bitcoin but it definitely wouldn't help it.. Most people would shy away because they don't want to get in trouble with the man.Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: wigglyuk on September 28, 2011, 04:40:29 PM http://tinyurl.com/3pqwo7z shorter URL
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: P4man on September 28, 2011, 04:42:25 PM Great idea. Because we all know online petitions work. Particularly to go against the financial sector bankrolling the politicians.
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: petercyr on September 28, 2011, 04:48:48 PM Great idea. Because we all know online petitions work. Particularly to go against the financial sector bankrolling the politicians. Look up openmedia in Canada.. They had an online petition which made the CRTC (Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission) push back against Bell's wish to make its wholesale resellers (smaller ISPs) apply the same ridiculous caps on their customers. Petitions work, as long as enough people join in.This one asks for 5000 votes. That's not much.. The open media petition got half a million signatures. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: WiseOldOwl on September 28, 2011, 05:37:13 PM Please forward this to ron paul's people.
whether it be by forum or whatever. Facebook etc. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2011, 05:42:20 PM Signed and forwarded as signature #7. If somebody could put this up on http://bitcoin.reddit.com and http://libertarian.reddit.com, that would be great.
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: petercyr on September 28, 2011, 05:47:03 PM Please forward this to ron paul's people. whether it be by forum or whatever. Facebook etc. This petition is in response to the Ron Paul Subcommittee to Explore Restoring Sound Money Includes video Dr. Lawrence H. White (Professor of Economics, George Mason University) making his case to Ron Paul. Between min 20 and 21 he mentions Bitcoins http://www.ronpaul.com/2011-09-13/ron-paul-subcommittee-to-explore-restoring-sound-money-september-13-at-200-pm-et/ Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: kgo on September 28, 2011, 05:50:14 PM I don't get it. Why do you need their permission, but they don't need yours? http://www.ushistory.org/documents/constitution.htm Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: Elwar on September 28, 2011, 05:54:15 PM Ron Paul has sponsored a bill to allow competing currencies.
H.R. 1098 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1098 You could contact your representative and hope it passes some day down the road. Or just vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primaries. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: the founder on September 28, 2011, 05:54:30 PM I am number 8 :)
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: jjiimm_64 on September 28, 2011, 06:21:52 PM I think I would have been number 10, but this is what I got when I tried to signup.
Our Apologies This Section of our site is currently undergoing maintenance We appreciate your patience while we make some improvements Please check back shortly Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: dunand on September 28, 2011, 06:24:40 PM do you have to be a US citizeon to sign the petition? No, just don't fill a ZIP. #9 Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: petercyr on September 28, 2011, 06:49:20 PM I think I would have been number 10, but this is what I got when I tried to signup. I got that earlier too.. I thought they took it down but it came back shortly after that. Check again in a bit.Our Apologies This Section of our site is currently undergoing maintenance We appreciate your patience while we make some improvements Please check back shortly Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2011, 09:54:51 PM http://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/kujl0/we_petition_the_obama_administration_to_end_legal/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kuksp/we_petition_the_obama_administration_to_end_legal/ Posted to reddit. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: ThiagoCMC on September 28, 2011, 10:08:18 PM https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/end-legal-tender-laws-allow-competing-currencies/0N8RLJ8K?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/end-legal-tender-laws-allow-competing-currencies/0N8RLJ8K?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl) Quote we petition the obama administration to: End Legal Tender Laws & Allow for Competing Currencies The Federal Reserve System has done a miserable job, with or without a gold standard, of providing the correct amount of currency for the economy. One Federal Reserve Note in 2011 has the same purchasing power as three cents in 1913. This massive fiat money inflation has negatively affected the standard of living of all Americans. The Fed's manipulation of interest rates also correlates directly to the boom & bust cycles in the economy, which has resulted in terrible mis-allocations of labor & capital. The Fed has lost credibility and should not have a currency monopoly. Congress has left us in a very vulnerable position relying on the FRN. The time has come to allow for currencies such as gold, silver, bitcoin, and whatever the market will bear to compete with the Federal Reserve Note. Created: Sep 26, 2011 This massive fiat money inflation has negatively affected the standard of living of all Americans. Why do you guys think that this do not affect the living off all human been on this planet?! Always it is all about Americans... There is LIFE outside US borders!! You know that!? We all share this shit... What FED does there, affects me here in Brazil, somebody in China, NZ, Spain, Portugal... BTW, we do NOT need the government, HE needs us. So, just ignore them... They will be forgotten soon, with its useless laws, lawyers, wars and printed money... I do not want / wish their blessing... I don't give a shit about what govs says... Because they says shit all the time... So, who cares!? Best! Thiago Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: onesalt on September 28, 2011, 10:45:27 PM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me.
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: sadpandatech on September 28, 2011, 11:14:59 PM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me. Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired... Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: NghtRppr on September 28, 2011, 11:17:49 PM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me. Then read the signs on the door. Don't see the VISA logo? Guess what that means. They probably don't take VISA. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: ctoon6 on September 29, 2011, 02:41:06 AM i was under the impression that it was perfectly legal to use any currency you want, although debts must be paid in USD unless otherwise arranged beforehand. if you get ordered to pay money, it must be in USD. another funny example, if your car get impounded, by law they are required to take USD regardless of its form, so a few people have opted to pay in pennies, and by federal law, they are required to accept it, because the debt was not prearranged, or something along those lines. this is to protect you from absurd requirements to pay in silly things like half nickels and half dimes or some other crazy way, at least that's how i see it.
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: k9quaint on September 29, 2011, 02:44:25 AM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me. Then read the signs on the door. Don't see the VISA logo? Guess what that means. They probably don't take VISA. Or maybe they do if you give them the secret handshake and make the sign of the blockchain. :-* Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: Herodes on September 29, 2011, 02:48:18 AM http://tinyurl.com/3pqwo7z shorter URL http://42.no/3h shorter URL (he he, sorry, could not resist ;D ) Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: iamzill on September 29, 2011, 06:34:04 AM I don't get it. Why do you need their permission, but they don't need yours? They have guns, tanks, aircraft carriers, and thermonuclear weapons. I have nothing. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: iamzill on September 29, 2011, 06:43:31 AM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me. Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired...Exactly. Most people don't realize that "legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues" doesn't apply when you go into a store, because you're not incurring a debt. The store owner can legally refuse to accept whatever payment you present at his sole discretion. You do incur a debt in a restaurant though, so technically speaking if you offer to pay for your meal in unrolled pennies the restaurant has no choice but to accept it. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: onesalt on September 29, 2011, 02:17:06 PM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me. Then read the signs on the door. Don't see the VISA logo? Guess what that means. They probably don't take VISA. VISA is not a currency, it's a method of payment. Bitcoins are also a method of payment (albeit a horrifically convoluted one at this point in time due to currency exchange issues). Dollars however, are dollars wherever you go and while not everywhere will accept different methods of payment they will all do those methods of payment in dollars. Having physical money on me which I then cannot spend because places refuse to take it for no reason would screw a lot of people over for no obvious reason. Not that it matters really, since currencies are self centralising. since it's more convenient for people to use a currency that more people accept and use it rapidly becomes dominated by one specific currency type because more people use it. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: Cryptoman on September 29, 2011, 04:26:12 PM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me. Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired...Exactly. Most people don't realize that "legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues" doesn't apply when you go into a store, because you're not incurring a debt. The store owner can legally refuse to accept whatever payment you present at his sole discretion. You do incur a debt in a restaurant though, so technically speaking if you offer to pay for your meal in unrolled pennies the restaurant has no choice but to accept it. Interestingly, I've seen exits on U.S. turnpikes that only accept the system's RF transponder for payment. Do you not incur a debt when you enter a turnpike? Why are federal reserve notes not accepted in payment of this debt? I suspect that this could be legally challenged. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: iamzill on September 29, 2011, 04:43:01 PM This is the stupidest fucking thing, when I go into a store to buy groceries I don't want to be turned away because I don't have the right kind of money on me. Funny thing is, a store can do that do you Right Now. If they so desired...Exactly. Most people don't realize that "legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues" doesn't apply when you go into a store, because you're not incurring a debt. The store owner can legally refuse to accept whatever payment you present at his sole discretion. You do incur a debt in a restaurant though, so technically speaking if you offer to pay for your meal in unrolled pennies the restaurant has no choice but to accept it. Interestingly, I've seen exits on U.S. turnpikes that only accept the system's RF transponder for payment. Do you not incur a debt when you enter a turnpike? Why are federal reserve notes not accepted in payment of this debt? I suspect that this could be legally challenged. Technically speaking they are accepting federal reserve notes, just not at the exit toll. If you get a friend to deliver the cash to their nearest office, they would be legally required to let your car through. It would probably take hours of arguments and confrontations, but it could be done. They have no right to forcibly confine you. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: fivebells on September 29, 2011, 05:05:48 PM I'm afraid this petition was fairly unwise. Public legitimacy is probably the most fundamental source of government power, but control of the coin of the realm plays an absolutely critical role, too. Explicitly presenting bitcoin as competition for the coin of the realm while it is still small enough to squash like a bug is really asking for trouble.
People have tried circulating alternative currencies, sometimes with great success for their participants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%B6rgl#The_W.C3.B6rgl_Experiment), but governments will always shut them down as a threat to their power. If bitcoin gets serious traction, it will face this problem, too, but there is no need to invite the trouble in early. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on September 29, 2011, 06:34:39 PM Sorry, too busy living my life... spending my bitcoins...
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: FAtlas on September 29, 2011, 06:42:47 PM Bill Cosby supports you!
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: cruikshank on September 29, 2011, 06:58:51 PM Interestingly, I've seen exits on U.S. turnpikes that only accept the system's RF transponder for payment. Do you not incur a debt when you enter a turnpike? Why are federal reserve notes not accepted in payment of this debt? I suspect that this could be legally challenged. Those are basically bus passes so no one has to stop to pay, that way traffic can keep moving rather than be bottle necked at the toll booths. So would be as pointless to legally challenge it as you would also have to challenge debt/credit cards, gift cards, and even checks. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: FreeMoney on September 29, 2011, 07:05:51 PM I don't get it. Why do you need their permission, but they don't need yours? They have guns, tanks, aircraft carriers, and thermonuclear weapons. I have nothing. Yeah, they got that shit from people obeying them all the time. Sucks now, but best to try not to support and strengthen them anymore imo. There is a reason they don't actually use that stuff on us all the time, it's not really all that profitable to do. Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: burlyman007 on September 29, 2011, 07:47:11 PM removed
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: FAtlas on September 30, 2011, 11:12:35 PM The entire Huxtable family has now signed on, along with several aliases of the Cozman
Title: Re: whitehouse.gov petition to allow for competing currencies Post by: netrin on October 01, 2011, 02:04:26 AM debts Legal tender means that one must ACCEPT fiat for all debts public and private. However you may PAY with anything you like as long as it is accepted by both parties. |