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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Pesh on July 12, 2018, 11:35:05 PM



Title: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 12, 2018, 11:35:05 PM
It's been near 13 hours since the transaction was made to my wallet and it's still not confirmed! I mean sure I see the sense in the miners making more profit from bigger transactions but to not have a solution for smaller transactions to date just boils my blood in anger. All the more reason to go full PoS! How long has it taken you and do you think there should be a solution to miner preferences and if so what is it and how would that be possible?


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Suharti12 on July 12, 2018, 11:50:26 PM
It's really annoying for such an event, and I do not think it should be as long as it happens to be confirmed and that's too long.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: pooya87 on July 13, 2018, 04:02:27 AM
I mean sure I see the sense in the miners making more profit from bigger transactions but to not have a solution for smaller transactions to date just boils my blood in anger.

the thing that should make you angry is that you still don't know how bitcoin works!
nobody cares about the size of your transaction* (be it big in byte-size or amount). what they care about is the fee you are paying for that byte-size. you can send $10 million worth of bitcoin with the same fee as you send a $0.10 worth of bitcoin as long as your size is the same in bytes.
for the past day since price went down and people are buying more bitcoin and selling bitcoin there has been more transactions on chain so the fees have risen a little bit. for example instead of paying 1 satoshi/byte (or ~226 satoshi for a normal transaction) you have to pay 2 satoshi/byte (~452 satoshi for a normal transaction)!
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,2d
https://coinb.in/#fees


* of course you can't make a non standard transaction with a big size or a transaction bigger than the block size but both of these are off topic.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: mjglqw on July 13, 2018, 04:17:04 AM
The blockchain isn't even currently congested. We currently only have 4195 Unconfirmed Transactions[1]. A 10sat/byte transaction fee would go through in no time. It means the fee that you or the sender used is very small. Maybe tell us what the transaction fee that was used?


[1] https://www.blockchain.com/en/btc/unconfirmed-transactions


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: virendarnagpal on July 13, 2018, 04:51:19 AM
Definitely I agree with the member that we first should be angry with ourselves for not having enough knowledge.   Because of ignorance about the process sometimes we start thinking negative for others. 

One thing I suggest before losing our patience; in more than 90% cases we can search the solution on our own. Most of the information available on google.  If still we do not find any satisfactory reply then we can ask here on the thread.



Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: hacsoi2799 on July 13, 2018, 04:54:50 AM
It's been near 13 hours since the transaction was made to my wallet and it's still not confirmed! I mean sure I see the sense in the miners making more profit from bigger transactions but to not have a solution for smaller transactions to date just boils my blood in anger. All the more reason to go full PoS! How long has it taken you and do you think there should be a solution to miner preferences and if so what is it and how would that be possible?
you're less angry. We can not intervene nor change the work of miners. accept and tolerate :(


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: pooya87 on July 13, 2018, 04:59:36 AM
The blockchain isn't even currently congested. We currently only have 4195 Unconfirmed Transactions[1]. A 10sat/byte transaction fee would go through in no time. It means the fee that you or the sender used is very small. Maybe tell us what the transaction fee that was used?


[1] https://www.blockchain.com/en/btc/unconfirmed-transactions

this is exactly why i say looking at the "number of unconfirmed transactions" is misleading! you won't gain any valid information by knowing that. there may be 100,000 unconfirmed tx in the mempool but paying 2 satoshi/byte can get you a high priority transaction. or there can be 100 of them and paying 100 s/b still won't get you anywhere. in first case 100K tx can be paying 1 s/b (and that is similar to what is happening right now) in second case 100 tx can pay 101 s/b and also their total size can be bigger than 2 MB.

there are a lot of unconfirmed transactions but they are all paying 1 satoshi/byte which means paying a little higher (even 1.1 s/b) can get you a high priority

https://i.imgur.com/ct2AsXa.jpg


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: mjglqw on July 13, 2018, 06:21:31 AM
The blockchain isn't even currently congested. We currently only have 4195 Unconfirmed Transactions[1]. A 10sat/byte transaction fee would go through in no time. It means the fee that you or the sender used is very small. Maybe tell us what the transaction fee that was used?


[1] https://www.blockchain.com/en/btc/unconfirmed-transactions

this is exactly why i say looking at the "number of unconfirmed transactions" is misleading! you won't gain any valid information by knowing that. there may be 100,000 unconfirmed tx in the mempool but paying 2 satoshi/byte can get you a high priority transaction. or there can be 100 of them and paying 100 s/b still won't get you anywhere. in first case 100K tx can be paying 1 s/b (and that is similar to what is happening right now) in second case 100 tx can pay 101 s/b and also their total size can be bigger than 2 MB.

there are a lot of unconfirmed transactions but they are all paying 1 satoshi/byte which means paying a little higher (even 1.1 s/b) can get you a high priority

*snip*

True. The number of unconfirmed transactions is definitely not the #1 factor to take in to consideration here. But that's why I also noted that the transaction fee is most probably too small because it would've most likely went through if the transaction fee was decent.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: BitcoinNewbie15 on July 13, 2018, 06:48:25 AM
It's been near 13 hours since the transaction was made to my wallet and it's still not confirmed! I mean sure I see the sense in the miners making more profit from bigger transactions but to not have a solution for smaller transactions to date just boils my blood in anger.

There is a solution for small transactions. Its the second layer on top of the Bitcoin network known as the lightning network. It is still being developed and implemented but it is making significant progress and the network is growing rapidly. Small (micro) transactions will not be an issue on this second layer.


All the more reason to go full PoS! How long has it taken you and do you think there should be a solution to miner preferences and if so what is it and how would that be possible?

It isn't easy to just switch to PoS. Proof of stake simply does not provide the same immutability and security as Bitcoin. Plus some argue that Proof of stake will lead to more centralization over proof of work. It simply just gives the power back to the wealthy elite. The more money you have, the more stake you have in the network. Same as the traditional fiat system. Also, a transition to PoS could also potentially be very risky for a network as large as Bitcoins. PoW is still the best consensus algorithm in terms of security and immutability, which is highly important..


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 13, 2018, 11:35:05 AM
I mean sure I see the sense in the miners making more profit from bigger transactions but to not have a solution for smaller transactions to date just boils my blood in anger.

the thing that should make you angry is that you still don't know how bitcoin works!
nobody cares about the size of your transaction* (be it big in byte-size or amount). what they care about is the fee you are paying for that byte-size. you can send $10 million worth of bitcoin with the same fee as you send a $0.10 worth of bitcoin as long as your size is the same in bytes.
for the past day since price went down and people are buying more bitcoin and selling bitcoin there has been more transactions on chain so the fees have risen a little bit. for example instead of paying 1 satoshi/byte (or ~226 satoshi for a normal transaction) you have to pay 2 satoshi/byte (~452 satoshi for a normal transaction)!
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,2d
https://coinb.in/#fees


* of course you can't make a non standard transaction with a big size or a transaction bigger than the block size but both of these are off topic.
Thank you for your input. I definitely have a better understanding of how it works now than what I had before. I did make a typo in that statement as I was writing it out of anger and did not double check, my point being is that 21.5 hours had past before I received my rewards. Bit annoying when you need the funds ASAP and the exchange you withdraw from claims it'll take no longer than 3 to 4 hours. Thank you once again.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: drm on July 13, 2018, 11:38:23 AM
I mean sure I see the sense in the miners making more profit from bigger transactions but to not have a solution for smaller transactions to date just boils my blood in anger.

the thing that should make you angry is that you still don't know how bitcoin works!
nobody cares about the size of your transaction* (be it big in byte-size or amount). what they care about is the fee you are paying for that byte-size. you can send $10 million worth of bitcoin with the same fee as you send a $0.10 worth of bitcoin as long as your size is the same in bytes.
for the past day since price went down and people are buying more bitcoin and selling bitcoin there has been more transactions on chain so the fees have risen a little bit. for example instead of paying 1 satoshi/byte (or ~226 satoshi for a normal transaction) you have to pay 2 satoshi/byte (~452 satoshi for a normal transaction)!
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,2d
https://coinb.in/#fees


* of course you can't make a non standard transaction with a big size or a transaction bigger than the block size but both of these are off topic.
Thank you for your input. I definitely have a better understanding of how it works now than what I had before. I did make a typo in that statement as I was writing it out of anger and did not double check, my point being is that 21.5 hours had past before I received my rewards. Bit annoying when you need the funds ASAP and the exchange you withdraw from claims it'll take no longer than 3 to 4 hours. Thank you once again.

It's understandable that you don't want to wait for 20 hours, if you had some more knowledge beforehand this wouldn't have happened though.
Ah well live and learn ;)


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 13, 2018, 11:42:40 AM
1. There is a solution for small transactions. Its the second layer on top of the Bitcoin network known as the lightning network. It is still being developed and implemented but it is making significant progress and the network is growing rapidly. Small (micro) transactions will not be an issue on this second layer.

2. It isn't easy to just switch to PoS. Proof of stake simply does not provide the same immutability and security as Bitcoin. Plus some argue that Proof of stake will lead to more centralization over proof of work. It simply just gives the power back to the wealthy elite. The more money you have, the more stake you have in the network. Same as the traditional fiat system. Also, a transition to PoS could also potentially be very risky for a network as large as Bitcoins. PoW is still the best consensus algorithm in terms of security and immutability, which is highly important..

1. Thank you for your input, the LN couldn't come any sooner! xD I know they are working hard to release it as a final version but damn when you need the money to make a deal and it's just not there when needed it really does cause some problem.

2. The same can be said about PoW. The more machines you have mining the higher your chances are of gaining coins. Yes you can join mining pools but the same is still required. The more input you have  working for the network the higher your chances are of gaining coins. These 1060's  to 1080 ti's are not cheap by any standards and I've seen the price increase by 200 over the past year and a half or two because of high demand and low supply.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Wilfrer on July 13, 2018, 11:44:12 AM
I think miners are always interested in big deals because the profits they make are more. It is normal for small transactions to be unnoticed. You should consider paying more for the miner, I think it's not too big for your deals. They need that fee to maintain their work and you need them to make successful transactions


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 13, 2018, 11:46:14 AM
I mean sure I see the sense in the miners making more profit from bigger transactions but to not have a solution for smaller transactions to date just boils my blood in anger.

the thing that should make you angry is that you still don't know how bitcoin works!
nobody cares about the size of your transaction* (be it big in byte-size or amount). what they care about is the fee you are paying for that byte-size. you can send $10 million worth of bitcoin with the same fee as you send a $0.10 worth of bitcoin as long as your size is the same in bytes.
for the past day since price went down and people are buying more bitcoin and selling bitcoin there has been more transactions on chain so the fees have risen a little bit. for example instead of paying 1 satoshi/byte (or ~226 satoshi for a normal transaction) you have to pay 2 satoshi/byte (~452 satoshi for a normal transaction)!
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,2d
https://coinb.in/#fees


* of course you can't make a non standard transaction with a big size or a transaction bigger than the block size but both of these are off topic.
Thank you for your input. I definitely have a better understanding of how it works now than what I had before. I did make a typo in that statement as I was writing it out of anger and did not double check, my point being is that 21.5 hours had past before I received my rewards. Bit annoying when you need the funds ASAP and the exchange you withdraw from claims it'll take no longer than 3 to 4 hours. Thank you once again.
It's understandable that you don't want to wait for 20 hours, if you had some more knowledge beforehand this wouldn't have happened though.
Ah well live and learn ;)
You're not wrong there, I should have picked the higher transaction fees option but that would have meant that I would have to pay 80 in fees which is a lot for a student like myself. Every penny counts. :P


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 13, 2018, 11:48:53 AM
I think miners are always interested in big deals because the profits they make are more. It is normal for small transactions to be unnoticed. You should consider paying more for the miner, I think it's not too big for your deals. They need that fee to maintain their work and you need them to make successful transactions
I do agree with you mate. But I'm a student and saving where possible is a must I was just expecting the transaction to go through after 5 hours because I have picked the lower fees before and they are usually on my account within 4 to 6 hours but the last 2 transactions I have made have both taken 20+ hours. Had to just come on here to see if this was normal and to vent my frustration.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Exchge on July 13, 2018, 05:22:51 PM
maybe it's because it's because of the many transactions done by the miners and could also be due to the increasing number of new miners in the present, therefore I think with the drop in the price of bitcoin may now be a blow to miner bitcoin now.
my suggestion is that the fall in bitcoin prices will decrease the price of mining equipment, therefore, it is a good time to add mining equipment.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: BitcoinNewbie15 on July 13, 2018, 05:33:32 PM
1. There is a solution for small transactions. Its the second layer on top of the Bitcoin network known as the lightning network. It is still being developed and implemented but it is making significant progress and the network is growing rapidly. Small (micro) transactions will not be an issue on this second layer.

2. It isn't easy to just switch to PoS. Proof of stake simply does not provide the same immutability and security as Bitcoin. Plus some argue that Proof of stake will lead to more centralization over proof of work. It simply just gives the power back to the wealthy elite. The more money you have, the more stake you have in the network. Same as the traditional fiat system. Also, a transition to PoS could also potentially be very risky for a network as large as Bitcoins. PoW is still the best consensus algorithm in terms of security and immutability, which is highly important..

1. Thank you for your input, the LN couldn't come any sooner! xD I know they are working hard to release it as a final version but damn when you need the money to make a deal and it's just not there when needed it really does cause some problem.

Yeah, It can definitely be frustrating if a transaction is taking too long. If that happens again, try checking out a transaction accelerator. Some companies offer services to speed up your transactions and sometimes it really helps out!

2. The same can be said about PoW. The more machines you have mining the higher your chances are of gaining coins. Yes you can join mining pools but the same is still required. The more input you have  working for the network the higher your chances are of gaining coins. These 1060's  to 1080 ti's are not cheap by any standards and I've seen the price increase by 200 over the past year and a half or two because of high demand and low supply.

Well, with PoW there aren't that many mining machines out there. The wealthy elite wouldn't be able to buy that much mining hardware because there just isn't enough supply. Mining hardware quickly becomes obsolete as well, so even as more companies produce miners, the wealthy elite wouldn't be able to buy enough as the supply is low, and the demand would further drive up the costs of the miners. Whatever hardware they were able to buy would be outdated once difficulty increases. Immutability and security are paramount for the network as well, which is why PoW is one of, if not the best consensus algorithms out there.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 17, 2018, 12:02:50 AM
maybe it's because it's because of the many transactions done by the miners and could also be due to the increasing number of new miners in the present, therefore I think with the drop in the price of bitcoin may now be a blow to miner bitcoin now.
my suggestion is that the fall in bitcoin prices will decrease the price of mining equipment, therefore, it is a good time to add mining equipment.
I think it's like the user above stated. The transaction fee I paid was not profitable enough or as lucrative to the miners as other tx fees were


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 17, 2018, 12:08:09 AM
1. There is a solution for small transactions. Its the second layer on top of the Bitcoin network known as the lightning network. It is still being developed and implemented but it is making significant progress and the network is growing rapidly. Small (micro) transactions will not be an issue on this second layer.

2. It isn't easy to just switch to PoS. Proof of stake simply does not provide the same immutability and security as Bitcoin. Plus some argue that Proof of stake will lead to more centralization over proof of work. It simply just gives the power back to the wealthy elite. The more money you have, the more stake you have in the network. Same as the traditional fiat system. Also, a transition to PoS could also potentially be very risky for a network as large as Bitcoins. PoW is still the best consensus algorithm in terms of security and immutability, which is highly important..

1. Thank you for your input, the LN couldn't come any sooner! xD I know they are working hard to release it as a final version but damn when you need the money to make a deal and it's just not there when needed it really does cause some problem.

Yeah, It can definitely be frustrating if a transaction is taking too long. If that happens again, try checking out a transaction accelerator. Some companies offer services to speed up your transactions and sometimes it really helps out!

2. The same can be said about PoW. The more machines you have mining the higher your chances are of gaining coins. Yes you can join mining pools but the same is still required. The more input you have  working for the network the higher your chances are of gaining coins. These 1060's  to 1080 ti's are not cheap by any standards and I've seen the price increase by 200 over the past year and a half or two because of high demand and low supply.

Well, with PoW there aren't that many mining machines out there. The wealthy elite wouldn't be able to buy that much mining hardware because there just isn't enough supply. Mining hardware quickly becomes obsolete as well, so even as more companies produce miners, the wealthy elite wouldn't be able to buy enough as the supply is low, and the demand would further drive up the costs of the miners. Whatever hardware they were able to buy would be outdated once difficulty increases. Immutability and security are paramount for the network as well, which is why PoW is one of, if not the best consensus algorithms out there.
I honestly never knew of those services of course there would be a charge for it but I only wish I had known about it then xD Would have like to have had the funds 6 hours earlier. But you live and you learn, thank you.
I do agree with you mate, but I also think that there is a lot that PoS can offer which PoW just can't. If the future is to be as bright as we want it to be then we must take care of the environment and I think if it gets too out of hand then price of electricity goes up, pollution levels rise and people would not be too fond of either of these. Would find it hard to have a government back this fully.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Kokondao on July 17, 2018, 12:25:30 AM
It's true and it's a lot to be felt by people, that a lot of great deals are smooth but returning with small ones, and I really hope it all has a solution.


Title: Re: I hate miner preference!
Post by: Pesh on July 17, 2018, 02:19:56 PM
It's true and it's a lot to be felt by people, that a lot of great deals are smooth but returning with small ones, and I really hope it all has a solution.
Likewise mate.