Bitcoin Forum

So many news for ETF and SEC this week? how can happen after 10 th august?

Basically, an ETF would allow computer illiterate investors to have exposure to the Bitcoin asset. So imagine that your grandma wants to invest in Bitcoin but she has no idea. Well, if an ETF gets approved, then in most banks she will be able to go there, tell them to "buy me X amount of BTC "shares"" and then she will have these sort of shares which represent BTC, which the bank controls for her.

This is very incorrect if you want to be specific but it's how most people can understand it. So the fact that it will make it extremely easy for people to have exposure to BTC will attract massive amounts of capital which means very bullish news. All ETF attempts have been declined by SEC thus far.

It's an "exchange-traded fund." Basically, an ETF holds a type of asset (or basket of assets) and issues shares to be held by investors. Since the shares are backed by the underlying assets, share prices usually track an index of the underlying via arbitrage.

The Winklevoss twins have been trying to get an ETF approved for years because it'll give traditional investors better access to Bitcoin's volatility without some of the risks associated with spot exchanges. The Cboe is trying to bring an ETF to market as well.

While you answered about the ETF from a different perspective but you forgot to answer the second question mentioned in the subject line. The "effect" part of it.

Bitcoin ETF is not useful for main bitcoin market. To be honest, not a single penny from ETF market is going to flow into the bitcoin market. The money invested in ETF is going to stay with the company and the investors will just get the profits and losses from the price volatility. So ETF is not helpful for the crypto market.

while i write this post last night, i forget to look at bitcoin price, is rising nicely now, is it the effect? i read on twitter member of SEC comment positive for ETF..

Well, we will profit from it by seeing an higher Bitcoin price, if anything. We can't stop it, if they want to do it, then they will do it. Just like we couldn't stop Bitcoin futures from being created. They can play around with these things for as much as they want, at the end of the day what matters is if you hold your coins or not. Let them play with non-Bitcoin backed toys and enjoy the price increasing, there's not much else to do.

Also apparently this ETF will not be for anybody, it will have a minimum of 25 BTC worth requirement of purchase, so this may be thought with big institutions or just rich individuals in mind, not the average joe.

I tend to agree for the most part, but apparently at least one of the ETFs currently under review for approval will actually have actual Bitcoin backing the funds. So, presumably, this means that if they want to sell X shares this isn't simply represented by Y Bitcoin, it will have to prove to regulators that they actually own Y Bitcoin to back the shares.

If this is truly the case, demand for the ETF would drive the company to buy more Bitcoin to issue more shares. At least, that's my simple view. Even so, I doubt it's much of immediate effects on the market. But if people held their shares, that's essentially Bitcoin staying in the hands of the company.

As a follow up on what is being answered so far because even me myself, aside from the news that surrounds it because if the noise of major support, I don't really understand the real effect its going to have on bitcoin and I believe a lot of people feels the same which is what led to the creation of the thread.

In your submission, you said its not going to have any effect on the price of bitcoin but those companies that people who have no knowledge of bitcoin approaches to buy shares on their behalf, those companies are bound to do same and in doing that means they have to buy for them or trade on their behalf then share the profit. This would ultimately affect the price of bitcoin or am I missing something?

Obviously it will lead to a bullish market for bitcoin and in fact, cryptocurrency as a whole because with our experience so far with price, the increase in bitcoin price leads to increase in altcoin.

The reason that it will increase price is that, there will be lots of transaction and awareness.

I think with the ETF and SEC it will be able to affect the price of bitcoin in the future, especially the influence of price increases, and I am very happy if it really will happen.

In my opinion, ETF is the Exchange Traded Fund which owns the underlying belongings including Bitcoin. Actually present market undergoing a much large and longer speculative section for the imminent bitcoin ETF choice. If authorized, masses of thousands and thousands at a minimum are anticipated to be poured into bitcoin. Now The short-term price might be pushed by speculators, as a real ETF fund could source the majority of bitcoins from over-the-counter markets.

ETF expectations was one of the factors that affected the price in november-december
that and Tether,of course  ;D
there is an interesting article on how it could have affected the price through 2016-2017
https://www.coindesk.com/8k-in-reach-4-barriers-await-emboldened-bitcoin-bulls/
I don't agree with everything he says there,but some of the points are valid and its a good read in general

for the price of ETF itself does not have much effect on bitcoin price because bitcoin value is higher than ETF, except on the contrary sometimes Bitcoin value will greatly affect the value of ETF because the average price follow bitcoin price.

Lets be optimistic. It is possible to happen this time. This is what the crypto market need now to turn things around and get hodlers of different altcoins smiling. Off course, maybe not shit coins.  ::)

Many investors are waiting for this, so let's all hope for a positive result because if its not, the market will collapse again. ETF is the main concern next month, its really a big thing in cryptoworld. It will affect the price of the market and hopefully altcoins will pump again.

ETFs are of two types. One is synthetic ETF and another one is physical ETF. I don't yet know what kind of ETFs are currently being reviewed by SEC. if it is a synthetic ETF, then certainly we are not going to have any effect on the bitcoin market because synthetic ETFs don't hold a physical asset. Index funds are one of the examples of synthetic ETF. But some of the index funds buy forward contracts to maintain their fund security. 

But if the ETFs being reviewed are the physical ones, then yes, they will have to buy physical bitcoins and trade according to the requirement of the investors. So if the ETFs in question are the physical ones, then we will see a very significant effect on the bitcoin market because of large buying orders and fresh funds inflow. But lets wait for more clearer picture until the fund documents is available for the public. Then we can ascertain on its impact based on the type of the ETF.

ETF stands for exchange traded fund. This could affect the transferring from one wallet to another using gas or bank charges

This is as you say type of ETF where physical bitcoins will have to be bought in order to company can sell shares to the clients. There is some others ETF at this moment which make confusion, but we are talking about only one relevant and serious who has some real chances to be accepted.

More info :

- https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/cboe-files-sec-bitcoin-etf/
- https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1668039/000110465918038369/a18-2298_1s1a.htm

So,If ETF gets approved? we are going to see a huge price changes in the bitcoin prices?

But still I don't understand why we need ETF (if bank controlling our funds for us),this is simply against the decentralization right?

There are various interpretations of how ETF can affect on BTC price, and this one that I mentioned is based on buying physical bitcoins, so if demand is rise and big investors start investing money, price should be go up. ETF should make investment process very simple, and investor do not need to know anything about BTC. Fund through investor buys BTC will do everything for them and investor will get shares.

Actually BTC ETF can allow that big money come in cryptocurrency without investors need to have accounts on crypto exchanges, buying/selling or keeping coins in wallets. Some compare BTC ETF with gold ETF which is first time lunched in 2003, and after that price of gold is start rising - BTC and gold charts looks very similar (some say) before ETF is launched.

I do not understand why we need mediators.  I do not know how this will affect bitcoin.

You should read my previous post and maybe some things would be clearer to you. It is not necessary for us to have mediators, "everyone" can buy / sell
BTC in a way that it registers on desired exchange which supports BTC/fiat pairs and buy coins. Or simply go to BTC ATM and buy coins on that way (usually the most expensive way) or use LocalBitcoins and maybe find yourself in person with someone to trade.

But for all mentioned experience is needed, and that is something what most potential investors unfortunately do not have. If there is exchange-traded fund which offer them to buy/sell/store BTC for them, they just need to have the money and the desire to invest. In this specific ETF any shares must be backed by real BTC, so if investor decide to buy 100BTC they will have to be bought. In the event that demand for such investments become significant, the law of supply and demand should cause a very likely increase in price of BTC.

ETF stands for "Exchange Traded Fund" which means that it is a security that tracks a fund or "bundle of assets". Similar to a mutual fund in some ways, and ETF gets traded just like a stock does. This makes it prone to daily price fluctuations, but is a great vehicle for traders as there is high liquidity and low fees.

The ETF fund itself actually OWNS the underlying asset and then divides that asset up into individual shares. This gives investors the opportunity to invest in the asset without having to actually hold it themselves. Basically it is an indirect way to invest in something without having to manage it or hold it yourself.

ETF in combination with futures markets could be a great step towards mass adoption of BTC and crypto as its own asset class as it would allow more retail investors to enter the market while having the right advice from the licensed broker selling such assets.

Basically, an ETF would allow computer illiterate investors to have exposure to the Bitcoin asset.The ETF fund itself actually OWNS the underlying asset and then divides that asset up into individual shares.

i reply this because another news is coming for decision on CBOE ETF by SEC in 30th September..Is this another manipulation?

ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds) is funds (pooled investment) traded on the exchange. This is liquid security (can be easily converted into cash). This is security (usually part) that only tracks indices a basket of stocks or commodities.

A full SEC approval will literally kick the door for traditional investors who want to diversify and put their hands on a market that offers relatively high profits and that will make them want to pour large amounts of cash into ETFs and put a portion of it. directly to Bitcoin itself.

This will cause a price increase, it should. It sounds too simple to be true, but that is what will cause the extraordinary demand for Bitcoin that comes with limited inventory, in turn, will result in a price spike until market forces find balance.

"We" don't need mediators. But there are a lot many out there who need them. Take the case of pensioners. They are not very comfortable with the idea of purchasing Bitcoin from the unregulated exchanges and storing them in online wallets. An ETF would be of immense help for them.

ETF is nothing but exchange traded fund if it is approved means then we can use bitcoin in bank itself. New concept to look and pitch in. A good option launched to have good trades. When looking into it, choose the best coins to invest and increase the capital and multiple the investment.

If before the news about ETF the price rises sharply, then there will be acceptance.

this topic is delayed again, some news says final decision of ETF is on 26th October or two weeks again. see this article https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-sec-sets-october-26-deadline-for-reviewing-nine-bitcoin-etf-applications?utm_source=telegram0&utm_medium=social

It didn't and it is unlikely it will

At least, not until Bitcoin becomes a real thing in the real world. Technically, it already is but the number of people for whom it is the real thing is small


This is incorrect but on a completely different level

The whole idea of these ETF's is about convincing institutional investors (read people with deep pockets) like investment or pension funds about Bitcoin's value. If SEC approves them, it will be a proof of worthiness, a kitemark of sorts, for the financial world. As I've written in one my earlier posts, these ETF's are not very meaningful and useful as such as anyone's grandma can just buy bitcoins directly (e.g. via Coinbase) without the hassle of going to a bank and then risking the fund of her choice collapsing with bitcoins disappearing into the sunset, which is not uncommon (recall the story behind LTCM)

https://a.radikal.ru/a02/1810/31/5273fa6b4405.jpg

To conclude, the game is mostly about luring into Bitcoin big fish, not anyone's grandma

ETF is just simplifying the BTC transaction processing so that all levels of the society have a common understanding, yeah that's s good move and it would create a wider scoop of market place and invite more capitalization and investment. And would surely increase demands and high value.

EFT is nothing but exchange traded fund, it makes easy for bitcoin transaction and used by all people.

ETF means exchange traded fund is similar like a common stock in a stock exchange. Bitcoin ETF is the easiest way to keep  your assets safe without scratching your head for the challenges it faces  like maintaining wallets and keeping the wallet under safe custody. Acceptance of bitcoin ETF result in mass adoption of the crypto currencies  in the market. It will soar the price of bitcoin again.

So, it means that ETF is nothing? Well, that is also in my mind that ETF approval is not getting an effect in the bitcoin price. Yes, it has a mass adoption but bitcoin had been already well known so I think no need for that ETF to be implemented. Stop worrying on ETF, bitcoin existed a long time ago without that ETF, so, probably(a little doubt) it will long last.

They say that there are lot of positive aspects in favor of Bitcoin if these ETF products will be approve by the SEC but when it was rejected, i have observed that there is no direct negative impact of the price market therefore for me we also don't know if there is really a good results if ever the SEC will approved the ETF therefore lets wait and see as it will be decided by this month of November.