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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Tytanowy Janusz on July 21, 2018, 07:02:44 AM



Title: Lightning network
Post by: Tytanowy Janusz on July 21, 2018, 07:02:44 AM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Xester on July 21, 2018, 07:29:37 AM
Lightning network is really the best way for bitcoin to make it more better than ever. If the lightning network will be implemented then the bitcoin transaction fees will be much smaller compared to before. Also it the network is established the confirmation of transactions will be much faster than before and there will be no back logs on the mempool.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Tytanowy Janusz on July 21, 2018, 11:01:57 AM
Exacly. Thats why i think it is important to monitor lightning network dewelopement. I think that after reaching 100BTC or 1 000 or 10 000 BTC someone important in crypto will spread that news and that will pump price. And with that fast developement it can happend next week - month.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 21, 2018, 11:15:43 AM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.


Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system , it also works with Litecoin or any other coin that included segwit.
Also fees are still variable with LN and each hub can charge additional fees and no one knows what the so called watch towers are going to charge.

I guess that ruins your theory as LN is not bitcoin only.  ;)


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Tytanowy Janusz on July 21, 2018, 05:48:03 PM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.


Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system , it also works with Litecoin or any other coin that included segwit.
Also fees are still variable with LN and each hub can charge additional fees and no one knows what the so called watch towers are going to charge.

I guess that ruins your theory as LN is not bitcoin only.  ;)

Yea but we have bitcoin - slow, expensive but with huge hype/marketing/infrastructure and other coins made for payments to be faster and cheaper. If bitcoin become faster and cheaper other will not be able to compete even if they apply lightning network or not. Even if bitcoin will need 0.1 cents for transfer and there will be some even cheaper they will loose with bitcoin because of its hype/marketing/infrastructure. Thats why lightning network will moon bitcoin and dump others which only purpous was to be faster and cheaper than bitcoin.

Thats why i think that monitoring lightning network developement is mandatory.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: genuin on July 21, 2018, 05:57:03 PM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
thanks for the information you provide. but I do not think it would have a major impact on the current bitcoin price. If we look at 2-3 years ago maybe what you give this will look and have a direct impact on bitcoin prices because there were very few people in the world who know of bitcoin as a digital exchange tool. Hopefully, if used could have an impact on the current bitcoin price even though I'm still a bit hesitant


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Bitguybillionaire on July 21, 2018, 06:20:00 PM
The LN is going to without a doubt revolutionize bitcoin and all things crypto, but we can't continue talking about it like it's going to come out tomorrow. The LN is far from being able to process large transactions, nor is it able to process many transactions at the moment. I would like to say again that I do love the idea behind it, and I do think that it will do great things if / when it goes public and has the adoption it needs to be relevant. We must continue to stress the fact that it isn't ready for mass adoption yet. Plus, stuff like this SHOULDNT have an affect on price NOR should it matter. I don't know why people always adopt price and innovation together. Look at the shitcoins if you want that point proven.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: mmo4me.2016 on July 22, 2018, 03:23:24 AM
Lightning network is an important step of blockchain technology on transaction confirmation time! Applying will greatly reduce the validation time! Enhance the efficiency of the network!


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: pooya87 on July 22, 2018, 03:53:13 AM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto.
maybe not cheapest since there are coins with no fee, but definitely the fastest considering the security of it.

Quote
It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless.
i wouldn't call that an advantage, for most cases the lower fee is because of lack of usage (eg. ETH was advertised as low fee but these days you basically pay $5+ for fee every now and then) and faster speed has introduced more disadvantages than advantages!

Quote
It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin.
everything about this is wrong in my opinion!
first of all bitcoin is not some shitcoin to get pumped :)
second people don't invest their money in altcoins to now want to switch it to bitcoin, instead they invest their bitcoin in altcoins and they do it to increase the amount of bitcoin they have so they will continue doing so because they will always want to profit.

Quote
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now
good tool thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: zenrol28 on July 22, 2018, 04:05:21 AM
Definitely the LN will be a great improvement for Bitcoin. With quite less fees and instant transactions. It may still take time but it will surely come to mainstream use.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: royalparade01 on July 22, 2018, 04:13:46 AM
The LN is going to without a doubt revolutionize bitcoin and all things crypto, but we can't continue talking about it like it's going to come out tomorrow. The LN is far from being able to process large transactions, nor is it able to process many transactions at the moment. I would like to say again that I do love the idea behind it, and I do think that it will do great things if / when it goes public and has the adoption it needs to be relevant. We must continue to stress the fact that it isn't ready for mass adoption yet. Plus, stuff like this SHOULDNT have an affect on price NOR should it matter. I don't know why people always adopt price and innovation together. Look at the shitcoins if you want that point proven.



The Lightning Network is a "second layer" payment protocol that operates on top of a blockchain. It theoretically enables fast transactions between participating nodes and has been touted as a solution to the bitcoin scalability problem.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Pursuer on July 22, 2018, 06:10:34 AM
Exacly. Thats why i think it is important to monitor lightning network dewelopement. I think that after reaching 100BTC or 1 000 or 10 000 BTC someone important in crypto will spread that news and that will pump price. And with that fast developement it can happend next week - month.

if you mean the "capacity" of lightning network then this can not be the reason for the rise but the adoption of it is. which can also be seen on that capacity (which is basically the total amount of bitcoin people have put in their open channels).
for example when big merchants, exchanges and other services, etc start using LN and implement it for real then you can see the real big rise begin.
until that day this capacity doesn't matter much in my opinion because LN is not yet fully ready or adopted.
...the good news is we are not far from that day.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: wsca on July 24, 2018, 10:17:09 AM
This makes the transaction fees cheaper and more accessible for the users.  Other payment channels or multiple channels can also be used to reach partner, with the network finding the shortest way. it's not as secure as the blockchain, but it's widely adopted for small transactions, and it will reduce the strain on the blockchain.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: JamescrypTrader on July 24, 2018, 10:18:17 AM
Lightning Network supports some other cryptocurrencies also. But it is going to pump Bitcoin I guess. It will probably create huge hypes for bitcoin which can make btc greater than ever.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: nickwen on July 24, 2018, 10:24:47 AM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
At present, the blockchain network is rather slow, leading to the increase in transaction cost of Bitcoin. We need to apply the Lightning Network to overcome these disadvantages of Bitcoin and make the Bitcoin system work more flexible.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: elemosho.crypto on July 24, 2018, 10:34:35 AM
I am agree with it. Lightning network is going to develop Bitcoin lot. Smaller transaction fees and faster confirmation will make Bitcoin faster than ever. And yeah monitoring is must for LN.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: slitil on July 24, 2018, 10:46:49 AM
Yes, this is true, which is why it is very important to keep an eye on Lightning Network and it's development process, so that a clear growth prediction can be made, upon which potential investors can start working. Thank you for this great insight.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on July 24, 2018, 11:07:20 AM
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party? 


I guess that ruins your theory as LN is not bitcoin only.  ;)

Which is a positive, rather than a negative.  Just wait for Atomic Swaps to kick in and then see what you're missing out on if you use a coin that isn't Lightning-enabled.  This is all stuff that's going to come later, though.


The LN is going to without a doubt revolutionize bitcoin and all things crypto, but we can't continue talking about it like it's going to come out tomorrow. The LN is far from being able to process large transactions, nor is it able to process many transactions at the moment. I would like to say again that I do love the idea behind it, and I do think that it will do great things if / when it goes public and has the adoption it needs to be relevant. We must continue to stress the fact that it isn't ready for mass adoption yet.

Now that's a sensible critique.  While it is technically "out", it's mostly the advanced technical users testing the waters right now.  We're still very early in the adoption curve.  There's a loooong way to go before any of this is user-friendly enough for the average member of the public.



Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: adb32ub on July 24, 2018, 11:12:50 AM
Lightning network is a good solution to mitigate the problem of payment speed. I definitely like it.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: LedrookETH on July 24, 2018, 12:04:17 PM
What you are saying has some truth in it, the part that lightning network will make bitcoin transactions easy, fast and cheap is true. But, lightning network will need a lot of time to come to a proper form where it can process numerous transactions at a time. Moreover, the market is too saturated with the arrival of so many coins that it is impossible for them to manually pump and dump other coins.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: ABMARK on July 24, 2018, 02:54:31 PM
Scalability issue has always been a problem for Bitcoin. The transaction process tends to take place slowly due to scalability problems. I think through this lightning network, Bitcoin is going to make revolutionary changes in the market.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: iamike on July 24, 2018, 03:03:26 PM
The Lightning Network is a "second layer" payment protocol that operates on top of a blockchain (most commonly Bitcoin). It theoretically enables fast transactions between participating nodes and has been touted as a solution to the bitcoin scalability problem. It features a peer-to-peer system for making micropayments of digital cryptocurrency through a network of bidirectional payment channels without delegating custody of funds. The only setback is that; The Lightning Network is made up of bidirectional payment channels between two nodes which combined create smart contracts. If at anytime either party drops the channel, the channel will close and be settled on the blockchain.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: kwusu on July 24, 2018, 03:17:01 PM
Lightening is very good in bitcoin transaction. If Bitcoin can be compared to cash transactions, the Lightning Network is analogous to an online system of decentralized credit: traders exchange IOUs, keep running tabs on their expenses, and only use the blockchain when their interaction concludes. Thatís a big difference from the sign-and-send procedure for an ordinary, on-chain transaction.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Tytanowy Janusz on July 24, 2018, 03:24:05 PM
115 BTC ATM. its 53 % in 3 days. I dont know if its gonna develop this fast but if so we can see up to 1000 btc in 2 weeks from now and 10 000 btc in month from now. I tell you guys. We are close to the moment when lots of people will start to talk about it and pump price. Thats what good investor do. He knows before others.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: carlisle1 on July 24, 2018, 03:28:51 PM
Lightning network is really the best way for bitcoin to make it more better than ever. If the lightning network will be implemented then the bitcoin transaction fees will be much smaller compared to before. Also it the network is established the confirmation of transactions will be much faster than before and there will be no back logs on the mempool.
I have been waiting for this to happen,for almost a year lightning network has putted in users mind that will help bitcoin transactions faster and the fee will be smaller meaning the totality this will bring great things to all bitcoiner.when would be this happen is the only thing that matters now for the market will grow again and will give profits to all who has holding bitcoin for long time


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: jasydoggye on July 24, 2018, 04:27:44 PM
LIghtning network has added a dimension to the blockchain technology and this will solve many issues that blockchain is facing now. The lightning network along with blockchain will take the transaction procedure to another level.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: jasydoggye on July 25, 2018, 10:17:31 AM
Actually this is really helpful because it will reduce the cost of transactions of btc based on this it is also fast and people will like to invest more here that time and many people will be encourage to invest in btc.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: coinages on July 26, 2018, 06:32:03 PM
I am glad that the authority are thinking about all of this topics, this kind of improvement are needed to fall a important impact on the market and of course if the condition of the market will improve it will definitely effect on the market price and the coins growth will also increase if you wait and watch then my point will be clear to you


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: stefy77 on July 26, 2018, 06:37:07 PM
Lightning network is an additional layer that makes a nice leap in chances to bitcoins and all the other ccrypts that are compatible. Yeahhh!!!


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: franky1 on July 26, 2018, 06:52:57 PM
1.lightning is not a feature of bitcoin. its a separate service that many coin can use. so MANY coins will get the same advantage thus not bring any hype to bitcoin alone

2. if the other coins that use LN have less fee and more tx/s onchain. then people will prefer to settle to those coins. especially if those coins are listen on the same exchanges and able to be used by the same merchant shopping cart tools

3. lightning is not a solve all solution for every usecase. it only works well for prepayment of known future spending. EG predepositing enough funds for the next month of spending where you will need to do more then a couple transactions per month. most real world spenders only use their debit cards 1-2 times a day and vary where they will spend each day. thus its only useful for things like
google adsense partners, exchanges reserves swaps and users who buy giftcards to cover a months spending..
where as randomly spending funds here there and everywhere is not straight forward, or plannable when it comes to the fund locks.

due to LN limitations of usecases and the fact that other coins will use LN.. devs need to stop stalling bitcoins onchain innovation to then only add features relevant for LN. and get back to innovating bitcoin onchain features for thos that cant/wont and will not need LN.

when you se dvs use "reserve currency" instead of cash..
when you see devs use weight instead of tx/s
when you see devs mntion locking funds

the subliminal message is bitcoin is gold and payments are expensively heavy, so needs to be locked into fortknox and then play around with unaudited unconfirmed receipts.. much like victorian banks which then screwed people over by not letting them have their gold back later on. think about how this so called bitcoin revolution has been lost. and has now become just another repeat of the old re-banking structure...
just try to send a payment without another parrty co-authorising your request and see how far you get on LN.. you will soon see how the revolution has been lost

i know i know.. im prepared for the onslaught of fiat lovrs that just want hype to get btc to a exit fee they like so they can run baack to fiat.. but that was not why bitcoin was inventd. and if bitcooin uses all its ethos and advantages over othr payment systems/networks/ciurrncies. the bitcoins exit price wont be as dramatic. so it actually is worth it to fiat lovers to try lobbying devs to go back to the drawing board and start re-innovating bitcoins onchain feature with things only bitcoin can do that othr coins cant. and do them cheaper onchain. to keep bitcoin in first place


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on July 26, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
1.lightning is not a feature of bitcoin. its a separate service that many coin can use. so MANY coins will get the same advantage thus not bring any hype to bitcoin alone

True, but network effects mean that the more coins which are LN-enabled, the more useful the network becomes.  Plus, with atomic swaps via LN, we don't need to rely as heavily on centralised exchanges.  This can only ever be a positive for crypto as a whole.
  

2. if the other coins that use LN have less fee and more tx/s onchain. then people will prefer to settle to those coins.

You say that like having the choice is somehow a bad thing.  How is this a problem?  


3. lightning is not a solve all solution for every usecase. it only works well for prepayment of known future spending. EG predepositing enough funds for the next month of spending where you will need to do more then a couple transactions per month. most real world spenders only use their debit cards 1-2 times a day and vary where they will spend each day.

True again.  But some people are creatures of habit and make the same routine purchases.  I know that, unless I've booked time off work, I'll spend between £3 and £4 in the staff canteen each day that I'm in for a full shift.  It's easy to plan ahead for that sort of thing.  It's literally no different to making sure there are enough physical notes and coins in your wallet before you leave the house each day if you're a fan of paying in cash.  It doesn't require a goddamn PhD or bachelor's degree to figure out.  Just because it isn't a one-size-fits all deal, that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue it.


due to LN limitations of usecases and the fact that other coins will use LN.. devs need to stop stalling bitcoins onchain innovation to then only add features relevant for LN. and get back to innovating bitcoin onchain features for thos that cant/wont and will not need LN.

Many would argue that no one is "stalling" anything and that you're expressing an opinion rather than a fact.  Also, on-chain features doesn't necessarily mean changing the size of blocks.  Things to improve on-chain scaling are already in development.  Schnorr Sigs and MAST could both result in smaller transactions, meaning we can squeeze more transactions into a block.  PSBT could give us the option to make payments completely offline without an internet connection and then settle them on-chain at a later time, so you may be able to time it strategically to record it on the blockchain when network traffic is calmer and fees are lower.  Making more efficient use of existing resources should be considered before simply burning through more resources.  Bitcoin is still on the bleeding edge of innovation.  Most of the altcoins that claim the latest and greatest features are just throwing buzzwords around and aren't actually delivering any real innovation.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: coinages on July 26, 2018, 07:50:44 PM
The lighting network is very nice for the crypto market. This makes the crypto currency safer and secure. They are very progressive and committed to providing good services to the crypto people.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: CanyonsBull on July 26, 2018, 10:42:17 PM
From my point of view bitcoin will much more better if the lighting network will use . The bitcoin transaction fees will be lower if the lighting fee are implemented. The transaction is also much faster than now.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: gidaahmad on July 26, 2018, 11:44:58 PM
At least Lightning Network is a great solution for Bitcoin transactions. And I am happy with the presence of this Lightning Network.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: circlesseeker on July 27, 2018, 12:02:40 AM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.

Totally agreed. Thanks for sharing! Lightning network will allow Bitcoin to use for daily shopping etc in the real life especially.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: SafeCamel95 on July 27, 2018, 12:03:52 AM
In my opinion itís a great decision. It will help bitcoin fro transaction. The lighting network is used to reduce the transaction fees. The transaction system is more quicker than now. If bitcoin use it it will be more better.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 27, 2018, 05:36:46 AM
1.lightning is not a feature of bitcoin. its a separate service that many coin can use. so MANY coins will get the same advantage thus not bring any hype to bitcoin alone

It is not "hype" for Bitcoin that Lightning developers are after, it is to scale the network while keeping the ability of the network to scale up at the same time.

Quote
2. if the other coins that use LN have less fee and more tx/s onchain. then people will prefer to settle to those coins. especially if those coins are listen on the same exchanges and able to be used by the same merchant shopping cart tools

That does not make sense. If Dogecoin increases block size to 32mb then people will also prefer to settle to Dogecoin instead of Bitcoin Cash?

Quote
3. lightning is not a solve all solution for every usecase. it only works well for prepayment of known future spending. EG predepositing enough funds for the next month of spending where you will need to do more then a couple transactions per month. most real world spenders only use their debit cards 1-2 times a day and vary where they will spend each day. thus its only useful for things like
google adsense partners, exchanges reserves swaps and users who buy giftcards to cover a months spending..
where as randomly spending funds here there and everywhere is not straight forward, or plannable when it comes to the fund locks.

due to LN limitations of usecases and the fact that other coins will use LN.. devs need to stop stalling bitcoins onchain innovation to then only add features relevant for LN. and get back to innovating bitcoin onchain features for thos that cant/wont and will not need LN.

It is not perfect. But relax and let it develop. "We" already have "our" "onchain innovations" in Bitcoin Cash. Let "us" enjoy that.

But what are those "onchain innovations". Talk about that instead.

Quote
when you se dvs use "reserve currency" instead of cash..
when you see devs use weight instead of tx/s
when you see devs mntion locking funds

the subliminal message is bitcoin is gold and payments are expensively heavy, so needs to be locked into fortknox and then play around with unaudited unconfirmed receipts..

You say that as if the users do not have full control over their Bitcoins and channels. They still do have 100% of their coins.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 27, 2018, 05:46:57 AM
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P





Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Pursuer on July 27, 2018, 05:55:59 AM
2. if the other coins that use LN have less fee and more tx/s onchain. then people will prefer to settle to those coins. especially if those coins are listen on the same exchanges and able to be used by the same merchant shopping cart tools

this is only true if  bitcoin fees go up and stay up. for example if fees become at least $10 and stay like that forever then it is the end of bitcoin in my opinion. but the thing is fees have always gone up because of spam attacks not because of lack of capacity and that means they won't stay up forever so there is no point for anyone to go use an altcoin that is not even accepted anywhere to make payments they wanted to make with bitcoin.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 27, 2018, 06:26:21 AM
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: franky1 on July 27, 2018, 06:38:21 AM
You say that as if the users do not have full control over their Bitcoins and channels. They still do have 100% of their coins.


OMG..
lets address the last point first.
in LN YOU DO NOT have full control over your bitcoins.. LEARN MULTISIG
it requires signatures of more than one person. atleast learn that as a basic first lesson.

now. lets go back to th first point
1.lightning is not a feature of bitcoin. its a separate service that many coin can use. so MANY coins will get the same advantage thus not bring any hype to bitcoin alone

It is not "hype" for Bitcoin that Lightning developers are after, it is to scale the network while keeping the ability of the network to scale up at the same time.

LN is not a service to scale "the network"(you are talking about bitcoin).. LN is a separate service network all on its own. LN is to allow many different coins to use this separate service network so they are no longer using the blockchain of many coins.
its got nothing to do with "scaling bitcoin" its about diverting people away from using bitcoins mainnet.
EG its not a highway that needs an extra lane and LN is that extra lane.
LN is telling people to get off the highway and use a country road along side farm trucks and pedestrians(othercoins). thus the highway doesnt get its extra lane

Quote
2. if the other coins that use LN have less fee and more tx/s onchain. then people will prefer to settle to those coins. especially if those coins are listen on the same exchanges and able to be used by the same merchant shopping cart tools

That does not make sense. If Dogecoin increases block size to 32mb then people will also prefer to settle to Dogecoin instead of Bitcoin Cash?
lol laugh at ur subtle attempt to bring bitcoincash into the conversation.. but guess what. i care about bitcoin cores issues. not the drama of other coins.
but that said if dogecoin had cheaper fee's and had same listings on merchant shopping cart tools and exchanges and had a faster blocktime thn core, cash, ltc, ether or any coin..  yes people would move to dogecoin..

back to concentrating on the core network
if LN was designed to only interact with bitcoin cores network. then it would help. but. the reality by making cores mainnet innovation stall and become expensive and be screamed by devs as unscalable. people wont want to return to cores mainnt due to costs of doing so.
would you redeem your btc if it cost you $1-$26.. or would you redeem LTC costing 1c-5c. knowing your just going to deposit coin back into LN later so want to avoid costs as much as possible EG 5c settle 5c reopen new channel.. vs $1 settle $1 open new channel

lets word it this way. if you are to lock up coin into a co-managed fund (bank) and then separately you play around with receipts where the sharable units of measure are different..which are unconfirmed, unaudited and have punishments and issues that can prevent settling back to coin. are you still playing with coin
EG deposit 1000 sats.. play with tx's measured as 1,000,000millisats that require channel co-partner to authorise with you

if you are to lock up gold into a co-managed fund (bank) and then separately you play around with banknotes where the sharable units of measure are different..which are unconfirmed, unaudited and have punishments and issues that can prevent settling back to gold. are you still playing with gold
EG deposit 1oz gold.. play with banknote measured as redemable for 31grams of gold that require bank manager to authorise with you

if it costs more to redeem your gold(bitcoin) than it does to convert it to silver(litecoin) where silver is just as acceptable by exchanges, merchants and others. people end up moving to silver. thus the bank (channel co-partner) keeps the gold(bitcoin)

cant you even see that its a way to lock bitcoin up and make it hard to get your bitcoin back due to mainnet issues
have you even used LN and run real life scenarios, have you done any maths, have you even rad the issues the devs themselves are screaming about.. or have you just read the pumped up hype on reddit by those that havnt done any research/scenarios,  

think outside th core box, without a utopian hat. put on a critical hat and do some proper thinking


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 27, 2018, 08:18:38 AM
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.

Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat.  ;)

Guess it is not apparent to you either.  :D

FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
 


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on July 27, 2018, 09:55:50 AM
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

Guess it will never be apparent to you that you don't have to route through a hub if you don't want to.  Try actually learning how it works instead of repeating the crap you've absorbed from reddit.  It's as peer-to-peer as you're willing to make it. 

I mean, perhaps you might need to rely on a hub, since you don't strike me as the kind of person that people would voluntarily want to associate with, let alone transact with.   ::)

Seems like you've spent too long looking at franky1's bus (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3909008.msg41857284#msg41857284).


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: blackwell77 on July 27, 2018, 12:05:20 PM
Yes i agree with you. If lighting system can be implemented in bitcoin i think transaction will be more easier. But as lighting system is 3rd party payment system people can't trust properly on that system.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 27, 2018, 06:56:41 PM
Lightning Network is a place for fastest reliable BTC trans. The lightning network works smoothly and It made BTC transactions faster than before. LN may be able to make a slide or more change in BTC price as having a fast rout in transactions. But it is true that it has no ability to make BTC market boosted or changed overnight. We should always be positive.

LN is not the fastest or reliable 3rd party payment service.
It is a buggy (in some cases money losing) 3rd party payment service.

Using some exchanges offchain transactions is faster & more reliable than LN.
Some will argue an exchange is more centralized, but exchanges do not require time locking for hours or weeks at a time.
With a exchange , I only need to send the amount I spending at that moment , with LN you have to lock up larger amounts of funds for much longer periods.

Also even LN developers admit , it is not fully safe yet and some lost money which will never be recovered.
https://www.trustnodes.com/2018/03/26/lightning-network-user-loses-funds

But some people lie and act like LN is running perfect when it is not.   :P



Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

Guess it will never be apparent to you that you don't have to route through a hub if you don't want to.  Try actually learning how it works instead of repeating the crap you've absorbed from reddit.  It's as peer-to-peer as you're willing to make it.  

I mean, perhaps you might need to rely on a hub, since you don't strike me as the kind of person that people would voluntarily want to associate with, let alone transact with.   ::)

Seems like you've spent too long looking at franky1's bus (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3909008.msg41857284#msg41857284).

Franky1's analogy that LN is Banking 2.0 is accurate, too bad that is beyond your ability to understand.
The last beta code , I played with was OS/2 . I don't waste my time on beta code anymore.
Having someone claim every problem that arises, well it is beta, gets pretty lame,
get the shit working or don't release it to the public as I am not wasting my time fixing their lousy programming for the new banking system.

First you push hubs, then you claim users should just transact between each other.
Do you seriously think individuals are going to waste all of that time and all of the hassle transacting in LN offchain crapshot, when they can just transact onchain.
We use Alts ONCHAIN to transact as they are faster and cheaper and EASIER than wasting time on LN's beta crapshoot service.

Your False Religious Beliefs blinds you to the reality of how bad LN sucks and the fact no casual users will ever run hubs or transact at that level.
John Q. Public wants easy / quick / simple transactions without needing a PHD to use it.
(LN is none of those things.)
Without being easy for the consumer, mass adoption will never occur, and bitcoin will continue to be a greater fool's game for naive geeks.

 


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on July 27, 2018, 07:37:59 PM
Franky1's analogy that LN is Banking 2.0 is accurate

Except for the part where it isn't (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3909008.msg42987566#msg42987566).


The last beta code , I played with was OS/2 . I don't waste my time on beta code anymore.

You should probably GTFO of crypto, then.  Everything is in beta. 


Having someone claim every problem that arises, well it is beta, gets pretty lame,
get the shit working or don't release it to the public as I am not wasting my time fixing their lousy programming for the new banking system.

It's beyond adorable you think you have anything to offer in terms of development.


First you push hubs, then you claim users should just transact between each other.
Do you seriously think individuals are going to waste all of that time and all of the hassle transacting in LN offchain crapshot, when they can just transact onchain.

I'm all about giving people options.  You're about authority and telling people what they can and can't do. 

Also, what's your alternative proposal?  What do you think we should be doing instead of LN?  Larger blocks?  Tell me what the point is in having two BCHs.  How is that, in any way, productive?  If you want larger blocks, there is already a blockchain that caters to your needs.  You're free to choose that one if you like.  But you're not making our choices for us.  Get a clue.
 

Your False Religious Beliefs blinds you to the reality of how bad LN sucks and the fact no casual users will ever run hubs or transact at that level.
John Q. Public wants easy / quick / simple transactions without needing a PHD to use it.
(LN is none of those things.)
Without being easy for the consumer, mass adoption will never occur, and bitcoin will continue to be a greater fool's game for naive geeks.

Some of us are just more patient than others. 


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 28, 2018, 04:09:24 AM
Franky1's analogy that LN is Banking 2.0 is accurate

Except for the part where it isn't (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3909008.msg42987566#msg42987566).

Not my fault , you are too stupid to see it.   :-*


Having someone claim every problem that arises, well it is beta, gets pretty lame,
get the shit working or don't release it to the public as I am not wasting my time fixing their lousy programming for the new banking system.

It's beyond adorable you think you have anything to offer in terms of development.

You be shocked to know how much.  :D


First you push hubs, then you claim users should just transact between each other.
Do you seriously think individuals are going to waste all of that time and all of the hassle transacting in LN offchain crapshot, when they can just transact onchain.

I'm all about giving people options.  You're about authority and telling people what they can and can't do. 

Also, what's your alternative proposal?  What do you think we should be doing instead of LN?  Larger blocks?  Tell me what the point is in having two BCHs.  How is that, in any way, productive?  If you want larger blocks, there is already a blockchain that caters to your needs.  You're free to choose that one if you like.  But you're not making our choices for us.  Get a clue.

LOL,
you the one saying they should use LN over all altcoins & exchanges that work better and are safer.
LN is 1 service, their are multiple altcoins and exchanges that do the job better than LN tied to bitcoin.
Maybe you should pull your head out of your butt and find that clue yourself.

If people want to use a bank, I have no problem with that, but don't lie and say it is not a bank when it is.


Your False Religious Beliefs blinds you to the reality of how bad LN sucks and the fact no casual users will ever run hubs or transact at that level.
John Q. Public wants easy / quick / simple transactions without needing a PHD to use it.
(LN is none of those things.)
Without being easy for the consumer, mass adoption will never occur, and bitcoin will continue to be a greater fool's game for naive geeks.

Some of us are just more Gullible than others. 

FTFY ,  ;)


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Whibu on July 28, 2018, 05:13:31 AM
it is true that such a development will be faster in the transaction and also has a cheaper cost and I really like that way, hopefully the next thing will be the better.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Pursuer on July 28, 2018, 05:24:02 AM
You say that as if the users do not have full control over their Bitcoins and channels. They still do have 100% of their coins.

OMG..
lets address the last point first.
in LN YOU DO NOT have full control over your bitcoins.. LEARN MULTISIG
it requires signatures of more than one person. atleast learn that as a basic first lesson.

just because it is using multisignature features it doesn't mean you don't have full control over your funds. you still own the signed transaction that is required to "settle the real balance on the blockchain" so to speak if the other party didn't honor his end of the deal.
maybe you need to read the paper (https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf) or use LN first at least then talk about it! ;)


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 28, 2018, 05:36:10 AM
You say that as if the users do not have full control over their Bitcoins and channels. They still do have 100% of their coins.

OMG..
lets address the last point first.
in LN YOU DO NOT have full control over your bitcoins.. LEARN MULTISIG
it requires signatures of more than one person. atleast learn that as a basic first lesson.

just because it is using multisignature features it doesn't mean you don't have full control over your funds. you still own the signed transaction that is required to "settle the real balance on the blockchain" so to speak if the other party didn't honor his end of the deal.
maybe you need to read the paper (https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf) or use LN first at least then talk about it! ;)

Maybe someone should explain to you the definition of FULL CONTROL.
Definition of FULL : COMPLETE
Definition of CONTROL: AUTHORITY OVER

Now put them together:
FULL CONTROL = COMPLETE AUTHORITY OVER

Therefore multisignature which grants a portion of control to another party,
means exactly THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE FULL CONTROL!

Franky1 is right again and LN supporters wrong again. Looks like a pattern to me.  :D

You could argue that there is shared control, but never full control.

I now understand why you LN guys are so clueless, your complete and utter failure to understand the English Language.
Explains a lot.  :D



Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Al-e_x on July 28, 2018, 06:31:05 AM
good development about bitcoin lightning network, today Lightning network helps many transactions every block becomes faster and cheaper.

what if bitcoin transaction without lightning network? I think bitcoin will lose value because many people leave bitcoin.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Gurjasmeet on July 28, 2018, 07:10:06 AM
I think lightning  network will be more  helpful to reduce transactions fee & increase the speed of network transaction in future.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on July 28, 2018, 07:32:27 AM
You say that as if the users do not have full control over their Bitcoins and channels. They still do have 100% of their coins.

OMG..
lets address the last point first.
in LN YOU DO NOT have full control over your bitcoins.. LEARN MULTISIG
it requires signatures of more than one person. atleast learn that as a basic first lesson.

just because it is using multisignature features it doesn't mean you don't have full control over your funds. you still own the signed transaction that is required to "settle the real balance on the blockchain" so to speak if the other party didn't honor his end of the deal.
maybe you need to read the paper (https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf) or use LN first at least then talk about it! ;)

Maybe someone should explain to you the definition of FULL CONTROL.
Definition of FULL : COMPLETE
Definition of CONTROL: AUTHORITY OVER

Now put them together:
FULL CONTROL = COMPLETE AUTHORITY OVER

Therefore multisignature which grants a portion of control to another party,
means exactly THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE FULL CONTROL!

Franky1 is right again and LN supporters wrong again. Looks like a pattern to me.  :D

You could argue that there is shared control, but never full control.

I now understand why you LN guys are so clueless, your complete and utter failure to understand the English Language.
Explains a lot.  :D

At this stage we don't even need to refute your misinterpretation of it.  We'll just quote you, so that when you realise how totally and utterly wrong you are, you won't be able to go back and edit your posts to mask your ignorance.  Anyone who does understand how this works can immediately recognise how totally unknowledgeable you and franky1 are.  Providing you act within the rules of the network and stay online to counteract any malicious activity by the other party, you are in total control of your portion of the funds in the channel.  That's how it's designed to work.  Learn smart contracts.

If you mistakenly spend from an outdated channel state or go offline and miss the expiry of the timelock, then that's a breach of the smart contract, so yes, you can potentially lose control of your funds in those situations.  But as the technology advances, developers will clearly work on reducing those risks as much as they can. 


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 28, 2018, 07:58:04 AM
You say that as if the users do not have full control over their Bitcoins and channels. They still do have 100% of their coins.

OMG..
lets address the last point first.
in LN YOU DO NOT have full control over your bitcoins.. LEARN MULTISIG
it requires signatures of more than one person. atleast learn that as a basic first lesson.

just because it is using multisignature features it doesn't mean you don't have full control over your funds. you still own the signed transaction that is required to "settle the real balance on the blockchain" so to speak if the other party didn't honor his end of the deal.
maybe you need to read the paper (https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf) or use LN first at least then talk about it! ;)

Maybe someone should explain to you the definition of FULL CONTROL.
Definition of FULL : COMPLETE
Definition of CONTROL: AUTHORITY OVER

Now put them together:
FULL CONTROL = COMPLETE AUTHORITY OVER

Therefore multisignature which grants a portion of control to another party,
means exactly THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE FULL CONTROL!

Franky1 is right again and LN supporters wrong again. Looks like a pattern to me.  :D

You could argue that there is shared control, but never full control.

I now understand why you LN guys are so clueless, your complete and utter failure to understand the English Language.
Explains a lot.  :D

At this stage we don't even need to refute your misinterpretation of it.  We'll just quote you, so that when you realise how totally and utterly wrong you are, you won't be able to go back and edit your posts to mask your ignorance.  Anyone who does understand how this works can immediately recognise how totally unknowledgeable you and franky1 are.  Providing you act within the rules of the network and stay online to counteract any malicious activity by the other party, you are in total control of your portion of the funds in the channel.  That's how it's designed to work.  Learn smart contracts.

If you mistakenly spend from an outdated channel state or go offline and miss the expiry of the timelock, then that's a breach of the smart contract, so yes, you can potentially lose control of your funds in those situations.  But as the technology advances, developers will clearly work on reducing those risks as much as they can.  

I suggest you get a dictionary for Christmas, because you are quite literally a full/complete/total idiot.   :-*

Largest LN Node just closed all of his channels , why : it was scaring the hell out of him that all of his funds would be stolen while he slept.
Also he did not even earn enough in fees to even cover his PC daily electricity usage. :P

https://1ml.com/node/036b32ac6acf6d178f47c2139b7327ab85bd3d5f5c40681a9a48109ea21f53e1e5/history

https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2
Quote
Operating the largest node on the Bitcoin Lightning Network has been educational, frustrating, fun, and at times terrifying.
 

Quote
My Lightning Node has routed 389 payments, making a profit of $0.34. I suspect the increase is mostly from the recent increase in bitcoinís price.

Quote
Running a large Lightning Network node has been quite stressful.
An exploit such as we saw with heartbleed could allow an attacker to drain all funds from the node while Iím sleeping.

Quote
Closing a channel using --force results in a unilateral close which makes the funds unavailable to me.
The amount of time the funds are locked up depends on the channel policy. This policy is negotiated when the channel opens.
Most channels will release the funds to me in between 1440 and 20180 minutes.
FYI:
20180 minutes is 336.33 Hours or ~2 weeks

Seems to me if the guy had complete control as some idiots think they do ,
he would not have to wait 2 weeks to find out whether or not his bitcoins are redeemed or lost forever.  :P


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on July 28, 2018, 08:25:34 AM
Quote
Running a large Lightning Network node has been quite stressful.
An exploit such as we saw with heartbleed could allow an attacker to drain all funds from the node while Iím sleeping.

An exploit like heartbleed could also allow an attacker to drain the funds from your standard BTC or altcoin wallet.  Maybe you should just stop using all crypto.  You clearly aren't cut out for this stuff.  


Quote
Closing a channel using --force results in a unilateral close which makes the funds unavailable to me.
The amount of time the funds are locked up depends on the channel policy. This policy is negotiated when the channel opens.
Most channels will release the funds to me in between 1440 and 20180 minutes.
FYI:
20180 minutes is 336.33 Hours or ~2 weeks

Seems to me if the guy had complete control as some idiots think they do ,
he would not have to wait 2 weeks to find out whether or not his bitcoins are redeemed or lost forever.  :P

Except they won't be lost forever.  Also, this delay is only in the event of an uncooperative other party or you are the one forcing the channel closed.  If you're dealing with a legitimate retailer/merchant and they become uncooperative and cause inconvenience to their customers, they're not going to attract much business.  It's in their financial interest to follow the rules.  For the average person, this isn't going to be much of an issue.  It's fair to assume normal people ren't going to attempt running the largest node on the network.  But perhaps the larger hubs may have greater concerns in this regard, since there may be slightly less incentive for those connecting to them to play by the rules.  But then that supports the notion that LN won't result in a small number of giant, centralised hubs, instead of how you keep arguing it will.  So, as usual, thank you for undermining your own argument.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: btc78 on July 28, 2018, 09:22:50 AM
Am glad been in this forum at this moment of the day.  Been patiently waiting for this lightening network, many tokens truly are going to go into extinction. We can't tell what will become of BCH, currently watching it in 3D. Truly BTC scalability issue is about to end, I foresee massive adoption of BTC by big institutions.
As I believe countries and company are startimg to feel valuable about bitcoin and lightning network thats why adaption is happening continuously,from company that paying employees with cryptocurrency and big name in the industries that accepting this coins as payments so with this i am believing that mainstreaming is on our way in just couple of years if this popularization continues


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: kosaymoive333 on July 28, 2018, 10:04:14 AM
I just need a lightning network to process the transaction quickly and reduce the transaction costs, the issue you give is also worth attention, thank you


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 29, 2018, 04:31:25 AM
You say that as if the users do not have full control over their Bitcoins and channels. They still do have 100% of their coins.


OMG..
lets address the last point first.
in LN YOU DO NOT have full control over your bitcoins.. LEARN MULTISIG
it requires signatures of more than one person. atleast learn that as a basic first lesson.

Yes YOU DO STILL HAVE FULL CONTROL over your Bitcoins if using the Lightning network. If anything goes wrong with your channel, you simply broadcast the current state of your channel as if it was a normal on-chain Bitcoin transaction.

Quote
1.lightning is not a feature of bitcoin. its a separate service that many coin can use. so MANY coins will get the same advantage thus not bring any hype to bitcoin alone

It is not "hype" for Bitcoin that Lightning developers are after, it is to scale the network while keeping the ability of the network to scale up at the same time.

LN is not a service to scale "the network"(you are talking about bitcoin).. LN is a separate service network all on its own. LN is to allow many different coins to use this separate service network so they are no longer using the blockchain of many coins.
its got nothing to do with "scaling bitcoin" its about diverting people away from using bitcoins mainnet.
EG its not a highway that needs an extra lane and LN is that extra lane.
LN is telling people to get off the highway and use a country road along side farm trucks and pedestrians(othercoins). thus the highway doesnt get its extra lane

According to your opinion. But Lightning is nothing like a "separate service network". It is simply Bitcoins locked in a multisig address to "transact more efficiently now and then broadcast on-chain later".


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: hatshepsut93 on July 29, 2018, 04:58:30 AM
When LN will get full release and some adoption, altcoins will have really hard time. They will try to criticize it, which will be rare, or they'll try to adopt it themselves and will say that it works better with their network (this is what Bcash is planning to do). ETH is planning to have its own versions of LN, and together with its competitors like EOS and Cardano they will be claiming that they are better than Bitcoin because they have smart contracts.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Pursuer on July 29, 2018, 05:03:49 AM
[snipped]

dude why do you keep feeding this troll? Zin-Zang has been doing the same thing last year with SegWit and kept spreading nonsense about it like this but with a different account while advertising his altcoin. that account is banned now by the way and he is ban-evading right now.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: FO4R on July 29, 2018, 05:30:40 AM
lightning network enables users to transacts cryptocurrency such as bitcoin over a specific short span of time.Users may interact with another via different nodes known as peer to peer.And i think some companies value this innovations that makes them more efficient both in workplace and in network.Lightning network also features malleability which uses algorithm encryption which i think more suitable for a innovative industries and marketshare.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on July 29, 2018, 11:41:31 AM
[snipped]

dude why do you keep feeding this troll? Zin-Zang has been doing the same thing last year with SegWit and kept spreading nonsense about it like this but with a different account while advertising his altcoin. that account is banned now by the way and he is ban-evading right now.

It's undoubtedly easier for us to recognise that Zin-Zang is a troll, because we have the experience and knowledge to make an informed judgement.  But it would be just as easy for anyone new to Bitcoin to be lured in by such posts and start believing something that's not true.  Best to nip it in the bud.  The last thing we need is a whole forum full of people claiming it's some sort of conspiracy to create "banking 2.0".


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2018, 05:51:29 AM
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.

Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat.  ;)

Guess it is not apparent to you either.  :D

But how will the state stop it if anyone can open channels all over the world and outside their jurisdiction? Your debate is lost.

Quote
FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
 

Define banking license. No one is holding your money for you in Lightning. It will be the exchanges on top of Lightning that should be KYC/AML compliant. But it is the same set up that we have today, but more scalable because of Lightning.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 30, 2018, 07:26:23 AM
[snipped]

dude why do you keep feeding this troll? Zin-Zang has been doing the same thing last year with SegWit and kept spreading nonsense about it like this but with a different account while advertising his altcoin. that account is banned now by the way and he is ban-evading right now.

It's undoubtedly easier for us to recognise that Zin-Zang is a troll, because we have the experience and knowledge to make an informed judgement.  But it would be just as easy for anyone new to Bitcoin to be lured in by such posts and start believing something that's not true.  Best to nip it in the bud.  The last thing we need is a whole forum full of people claiming it's some sort of conspiracy to create "banking 2.0".

Wow , both of you think I am a troll, both of you luv bitcoin and both of you think LN is great
therefore according to Pursuer small world theory , you too must be the same person.

Nah, I have never been that lame as to believe people that shared the same views are all the same person.
Enjoy your conspiracy.  :D

P.S. I am Batman in my spare time.  ;)
https://i.imgur.com/vRaulCN.gif
(Took 6 weeks for that leg to heal.)   :P

@Pursuer,
Shame you can't tell the difference between someone speaking the truth and someone trolling.
But your problem , not mine.

LN is most definitely Banking 2.0 and multiple people have said this.
And I doubt they are all the same person.




Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.

Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat.  ;)

Guess it is not apparent to you either.  :D

But how will the state stop it if anyone can open channels all over the world and outside their jurisdiction? Your debate is lost.

Are you locked in a closet or do you have access to the internet?
How does the Government currently enforce AML/KYC laws, simple they have people that will arrest your ass.
And foreign governments have their own AML/KYC laws, that can get you arrested.

https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/category/extraterritorial-application-of-us-law/
Quote
DOJ Employs Money Laundering Statute to Prosecute Venezuelan Oilmen for Foreign Bribery
 
If you are thinking you live a free world, you are sadly mistaken.

*Ask Vinnik*  :P
https://cointelegraph.com/news/new-extradition-request-complicates-case-of-bitcoin-fraud-suspect-alexander-vinnik
Quote
Vinnik, who is a former owner of crypto exchange BTC-e,
was arrested by Greek police in July 2017
under the order of the U.S. Department of Justice.
Authorities accused him of fraud and laundering as much as $4 billion in Bitcoin over the course of six years.

FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
 
Define banking license. No one is holding your money for you in Lightning. It will be the exchanges on top of Lightning that should be KYC/AML compliant. But it is the same set up that we have today, but more scalable because of Lightning.

Just because you guys try and twist the english language to suit your false beliefs , does not mean it will hold up in court.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4714938.msg43006363#msg43006363

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_license
Quote
full banking licenses for general banking activities, such as taking deposits from the general public

Banks used to hold Gold and Silver and use Banks notes & US Dollar Notes to allow redemption of gold & silver,  
http://www.antiquemoney.com/value-of-10-gold-certificate/
Notice on the old Fiat it used to say $10 in GoldCoin

LN uses Multi signatures to hold Bitcoin (Time Locked) ,
LN uses their own notes system (ledger) to transfer balances between other LN hubs (No actual bitcoin is transacted , it is time locked remember).
Once the LN channels are closed (you can redeem your LN transactions for real bitcoin ONchain (may take up 2 weeks))

LN is exactly Banking 2.0 designed for crypto , with fees per hub , like banks charge fees.
Under the right circumstances a bank or LN hub can seize your funds.
Since LN balances are nothing more than a representation of a bitcoin, fractional reserve is possible in the future with a minor software update to LN.

Don't strain your brain,
I know you guys drank the kool-aid and believe all of the BS the core devs sprouted. Thinking is not your strong suit, otherwise you would have already come to these same conclusions.

And there has been a recent development, a thinking person can see the problem with LN.
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2

This guy placed $1000s of dollars worth of bitcoin in a time lock to run a LN hub for a few weeks.
His profit less than 35 cents, which if you factor in any of his input costs such as running a node or time monitoring his money, he came out at a massive loss.

LN has fees for each hub, fees for the watchtowers, plus the onchain fees.
For an LN hub to actually make any money , it is going to have to charge alot higher fees , meaning the promise of low fees , was a false promise once it actually gets operational, because stupid people can only work for free for so long before they go broke.

Now go drink your kool aid , and forget anyone ever told you the truth.
Because you can't handle the truth.  :)
http://newsprom.ru/i/n/631/198631/tn_198631_1251597f1cf3.jpg


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: crea8ivemoiz on July 30, 2018, 07:53:46 AM
Lightning Network is a proposed implementation of Hashed Timelock Contracts (HTLCs) with bi-directional payment channels which allows payments to be securely routed across multiple peer-to-peer payment channels. This allows the formation of a network where any peer on the network can pay any other peer even if they don't directly have a channel open between each other.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: luckyluigi on July 30, 2018, 11:43:00 AM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
I have heard some of the positive reviews about those lightning networks, but I'm still amazed how can you apply that thing on the decentralised bitcoin transactions system. Maybe it would be a mediator?


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: bayy43 on July 30, 2018, 02:35:28 PM

Lightning network for crypto will become wow, bitcoin will become fast and often often is the network of lightning in bitcoin


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: BitcoinFX on July 30, 2018, 05:29:30 PM
The Lightning Network ?

- https://www.tattooseo.com/lightning-bolt-tattoo-meaning/
- http://www.unexplainable.net/info-theories/the-disturbing-meaning-behind-the-lightning-bolt-in-popular-culture.php
- http://symbolism.wikia.com/wiki/Lightning


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 31, 2018, 05:30:10 AM
Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.

Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat.  ;)

Guess it is not apparent to you either.  :D

But how will the state stop it if anyone can open channels all over the world and outside their jurisdiction? Your debate is lost.

Are you locked in a closet or do you have access to the internet?
How does the Government currently enforce AML/KYC laws, simple they have people that will arrest your ass.
And foreign governments have their own AML/KYC laws, that can get you arrested.

https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/category/extraterritorial-application-of-us-law/
Quote
DOJ Employs Money Laundering Statute to Prosecute Venezuelan Oilmen for Foreign Bribery
 
If you are thinking you live a free world, you are sadly mistaken.

*Ask Vinnik*  :P
https://cointelegraph.com/news/new-extradition-request-complicates-case-of-bitcoin-fraud-suspect-alexander-vinnik
Quote
Vinnik, who is a former owner of crypto exchange BTC-e,
was arrested by Greek police in July 2017
under the order of the U.S. Department of Justice.
Authorities accused him of fraud and laundering as much as $4 billion in Bitcoin over the course of six years.

How would arresting one person stop the whole Lightning Network?

Plus report Lightning to the authorities! There are more than 7,000 nodes laundering money! Hahaha.

You and your debate is lost.

Quote
FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
 
Define banking license. No one is holding your money for you in Lightning. It will be the exchanges on top of Lightning that should be KYC/AML compliant. But it is the same set up that we have today, but more scalable because of Lightning.

Just because you guys try and twist the english language to suit your false beliefs , does not mean it will hold up in court.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4714938.msg43006363#msg43006363

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_license
Quote
full banking licenses for general banking activities, such as taking deposits from the general public

Banks used to hold Gold and Silver and use Banks notes & US Dollar Notes to allow redemption of gold & silver,  
http://www.antiquemoney.com/value-of-10-gold-certificate/
Notice on the old Fiat it used to say $10 in GoldCoin

LN uses Multi signatures to hold Bitcoin (Time Locked) ,
LN uses their own notes system (ledger) to transfer balances between other LN hubs (No actual bitcoin is transacted , it is time locked remember).
Once the LN channels are closed (you can redeem your LN transactions for real bitcoin ONchain (may take up 2 weeks))

No. There is no "ledger" in Lightning. All your transactions are stored locally until you broadcast them in the blockchain.

Quote
LN is exactly Banking 2.0 designed for crypto , with fees per hub , like banks charge fees.
Under the right circumstances a bank or LN hub can seize your funds.

FUD. What part of multisig do you not understand. Plus you have 100% control of your funds because you can broadcast the last state of the channel ANYTIME you want.

Quote
Since LN balances are nothing more than a representation of a bitcoin, fractional reserve is possible in the future with a minor software update to LN.

FUD. That is impossible because your coins are locked 1:1 in a 2 of 2 multisig wallet. How can coins be "printed" from thin air in Lightning? You cannot.

Quote
Don't strain your brain,
I know you guys drank the kool-aid and believe all of the BS the core devs sprouted. Thinking is not your strong suit, otherwise you would have already come to these same conclusions.

And there has been a recent development, a thinking person can see the problem with LN.
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2

This guy placed $1000s of dollars worth of bitcoin in a time lock to run a LN hub for a few weeks.
His profit less than 35 cents, which if you factor in any of his input costs such as running a node or time monitoring his money, he came out at a massive loss.

Yes Lightning fees are unfairly cheap as promised.

Quote
LN has fees for each hub, fees for the watchtowers, plus the onchain fees.
For an LN hub to actually make any money , it is going to have to charge alot higher fees , meaning the promise of low fees , was a false promise once it actually gets operational, because stupid people can only work for free for so long before they go broke.

Now go drink your kool aid , and forget anyone ever told you the truth.
Because you can't handle the truth.  :)

Then why would there be a Lightning "Bank of America" node again? Was it not your first debate was "to earn high fees from the users"? Hahahaha.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: teterinal on July 31, 2018, 08:34:50 AM
Yeah. Lightning network implementation will hugely impact bitcoin positively. I do hope the development will be finished soon enough.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Ava Duvall on July 31, 2018, 08:50:09 AM
I think lightning  network will be more  helpful to reduce transactions fee & increase the speed of network transaction in future.
exactly my thoughts, it should bring more benefits and overall be a great addition.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on July 31, 2018, 11:59:36 AM
@Wind_FURY

You know, you are too stupid for words.
Here's Your Sign:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjelRDKHUk

Think what you like, you're completely wrong, but ignorance is bliss until they lock you up.

Enjoy your free time.  :)



Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: ani4 on July 31, 2018, 12:59:07 PM
[snipped]

dude why do you keep feeding this troll? Zin-Zang has been doing the same thing last year with SegWit and kept spreading nonsense about it like this but with a different account while advertising his altcoin. that account is banned now by the way and he is ban-evading right now.

It's undoubtedly easier for us to recognise that Zin-Zang is a troll, because we have the experience and knowledge to make an informed judgement.  But it would be just as easy for anyone new to Bitcoin to be lured in by such posts and start believing something that's not true.  Best to nip it in the bud.  The last thing we need is a whole forum full of people claiming it's some sort of conspiracy to create "banking 2.0".

Wow , both of you think I am a troll, both of you luv bitcoin and both of you think LN is great
therefore according to Pursuer small world theory , you too must be the same person.

Nah, I have never been that lame as to believe people that shared the same views are all the same person.
Enjoy your conspiracy.  :D

P.S. I am Batman in my spare time.  ;)
https://i.imgur.com/vRaulCN.gif
(Took 6 weeks for that leg to heal.)   :P

@Pursuer,
Shame you can't tell the difference between someone speaking the truth and someone trolling.
But your problem , not mine.

LN is most definitely Banking 2.0 and multiple people have said this.
And I doubt they are all the same person.




Lightning network is a 3rd party offchain payment system

Would you care to name this supposed third party?  

LOL, LN Hub operators.
 
Serious how did you not know that?

Guess it won't be apparent to you even when the LN Hub is Named Bank of America. :P

What can a "Bank of America" hub exactly do to Bitcoin if they become a Lightning Hub? Nothing. They can also do nothing on the Lightning Network itself because Bitcoins are locked in a multisig address when opening a channel. What it can do is build on top of Lightning and do anything they like but only from within their service.

Have the Funds to be a Centralized Hub that has the majority of channels to it directly , and refuse to open channels with hubs they or government policy disapproves of.
Therefore starving non-banking hubs of funds until they run them out of business and can have their own banking monopoly like with fiat.  ;)

Guess it is not apparent to you either.  :D

But how will the state stop it if anyone can open channels all over the world and outside their jurisdiction? Your debate is lost.

Are you locked in a closet or do you have access to the internet?
How does the Government currently enforce AML/KYC laws, simple they have people that will arrest your ass.
And foreign governments have their own AML/KYC laws, that can get you arrested.

https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/category/extraterritorial-application-of-us-law/
Quote
DOJ Employs Money Laundering Statute to Prosecute Venezuelan Oilmen for Foreign Bribery
 
If you are thinking you live a free world, you are sadly mistaken.

*Ask Vinnik*  :P
https://cointelegraph.com/news/new-extradition-request-complicates-case-of-bitcoin-fraud-suspect-alexander-vinnik
Quote
Vinnik, who is a former owner of crypto exchange BTC-e,
was arrested by Greek police in July 2017
under the order of the U.S. Department of Justice.
Authorities accused him of fraud and laundering as much as $4 billion in Bitcoin over the course of six years.

FYI:
Or just slip a few bucks to a few politicians to pass a law requiring all LN Hubs to require a Banking License and follow all KYC/AML laws.
 
Define banking license. No one is holding your money for you in Lightning. It will be the exchanges on top of Lightning that should be KYC/AML compliant. But it is the same set up that we have today, but more scalable because of Lightning.

Just because you guys try and twist the english language to suit your false beliefs , does not mean it will hold up in court.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4714938.msg43006363#msg43006363

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_license
Quote
full banking licenses for general banking activities, such as taking deposits from the general public

Banks used to hold Gold and Silver and use Banks notes & US Dollar Notes to allow redemption of gold & silver,  
http://www.antiquemoney.com/value-of-10-gold-certificate/
Notice on the old Fiat it used to say $10 in GoldCoin

LN uses Multi signatures to hold Bitcoin (Time Locked) ,
LN uses their own notes system (ledger) to transfer balances between other LN hubs (No actual bitcoin is transacted , it is time locked remember).
Once the LN channels are closed (you can redeem your LN transactions for real bitcoin ONchain (may take up 2 weeks))

LN is exactly Banking 2.0 designed for crypto , with fees per hub , like banks charge fees.
Under the right circumstances a bank or LN hub can seize your funds.
Since LN balances are nothing more than a representation of a bitcoin, fractional reserve is possible in the future with a minor software update to LN.

Don't strain your brain,
I know you guys drank the kool-aid and believe all of the BS the core devs sprouted. Thinking is not your strong suit, otherwise you would have already come to these same conclusions.

And there has been a recent development, a thinking person can see the problem with LN.
https://medium.com/andreas-tries-blockchain/bitcoin-lightning-network-4-what-happens-when-you-close-half-of-the-lightning-network-b25b330dfad2

This guy placed $1000s of dollars worth of bitcoin in a time lock to run a LN hub for a few weeks.
His profit less than 35 cents, which if you factor in any of his input costs such as running a node or time monitoring his money, he came out at a massive loss.

LN has fees for each hub, fees for the watchtowers, plus the onchain fees.
For an LN hub to actually make any money , it is going to have to charge alot higher fees , meaning the promise of low fees , was a false promise once it actually gets operational, because stupid people can only work for free for so long before they go broke.

Now go drink your kool aid , and forget anyone ever told you the truth.
Because you can't handle the truth.  :)
http://newsprom.ru/i/n/631/198631/tn_198631_1251597f1cf3.jpg


I agree more on-chain solutions, cross-chain liquidity/DEX/private smart contracts etc are needed.
Though I think extra layers can be useful, they should not compromise on fungibility/privacy or decentralization


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: satana_igor666 on July 31, 2018, 01:26:03 PM
It is certainly good that a lightning net has appeared, but how the government will look at such operations.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Wind_FURY on August 01, 2018, 05:31:34 AM
@Wind_FURY

You know, you are too stupid for words.
Here's Your Sign:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjelRDKHUk

Think what you like, you're completely wrong, but ignorance is bliss until they lock you up.

Enjoy your free time.  :)



I rebuked all your claims with facts and I am the ignorant one? Hahaha. Ok, I wish you good luck in trying to convince the newbies in all your lies and misinformation. But I am self-assured that those lost newbies will learn the truth in time. 8)


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: sublime5447 on August 03, 2018, 06:49:07 PM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.
thanks for the information you provide. but I do not think it would have a major impact on the current bitcoin price. If we look at 2-3 years ago maybe what you give this will look and have a direct impact on bitcoin prices because there were very few people in the world who know of bitcoin as a digital exchange tool. Hopefully, if used could have an impact on the current bitcoin price even though I'm still a bit hesitant
Itís not exact if you speak about it now, for now itís not yet, because the merchants who have accepted the transaction is only a few
https://www.coindesk.com/merchants-bitcoin-lightning-network/
After the lightning network is launched to the public, the impact will be seen.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Fenixsfeather on August 03, 2018, 07:11:29 PM
Lighting network is good technology, which upgrade bitcoin. And I like to see how bitcoin growing.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: AndreaPhillips on August 04, 2018, 03:54:51 PM
Some information on Lightning Network

Each blockchain block is limited to 1MB in size to increase the hierarchy of the network, but this also limits Bitcoin's transaction processing capabilities, leading to higher transaction fees and lower transaction processing. On August 24, 2017, Separated Witness was put into use, a precursor to the Lightning Network - a subset of the vast Bitcoin Blocks network with intelligent contracting features such as Ethereum. This enhances Bitcoin's blockchain capability to handle almost unlimited transactions at a little cost, by routing transactions through the network gateway of the payment gateway. The Lightning Network has been tested with version 1.0 since December 2017 with the first transaction at Bitrefill and will be officially launched in 2018.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Namara on August 06, 2018, 08:03:30 PM
For the years of Bitcoin existing many of different projects were trying to improve and develop bitcoin transaction system more, but as far as we can see none of them were succeed, I don't know what is the reason for that.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: boss1dg on August 09, 2018, 10:34:24 PM
I think in next 6-8 months we have a lot of good news to come all at once , like ETF , NYSE related exchange for bitcoin , lightening network etc . as expected Q4 seems might be starting of bull run again , same like previous year where not just btc but all other alts also were booming .


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: ImTree on August 20, 2018, 07:41:02 PM
The lightning network is really the best way to do Bitcoin more perspective for all people in the world. I agree that it gives the speed and transaction fee can be much smaller than now. It will be really good for Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: *kimcil* on August 20, 2018, 07:45:55 PM
Lightning Network is the best way to make bitcoin better than before. If the lightning network will be implemented, the bitcoin transaction costs will be much smaller than before.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: Zin-Zang on August 21, 2018, 03:22:51 AM
Lightning network will make Bitcoin fastest and one of the cheapest crypto. It will make manny crypto which only advantage over bitcoin is transaction fees and speed useless. It will suck money from them and pump bitcoin. Week ago i found tool to track lightning network developement progress and I would like to share it with you guys. I think its worth to check regularly.

https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-6M&to=now

Today sum of opened chanels has value of 95 bitcoins. Its not that much but as you can see it was 75 BTC week ago and  chart looks like it could be 200 in next week. I think that ligdtning network developement is speeding up and soonly we will have great news about it and price can jump to unknown levels. And none TA will show that.

Hmm Yeah, the answer is no.

Some problems with your thoughts,

Fees
1.  LN default average fee per transactions is $0.06 and that is if only 1 hop is required.
     Litecoin average onchain fee per transaction is $0.01

Speed
1.  While LN promises ultra fast transactions , it is an offchain system , and any offchain system can process transactions in microseconds.
     Such as using any coin on any exchange that allows offchain transfers.
     So it has no real benefits over other coins.
     Now if you are a purist and think only LN offchain scaling is capable of these amazing speeds (It's not , but for the sake of your argument.)
     Even if it was, Litecoin is also segwit infected and as such also usuable on the Lightning Network.  :)


So while LN makes bitcoin faster & cheaper, it still does not make it faster and cheaper than all alts.


FYI:
Just for comparison sake,  :D
ZEITCOIN average onchain transaction fee is $0.0000025 per transaction.
For values under $20 , it is safe to wait for only 4 transactions which is only 2 minutes to be completely finished.
While with LN, you can wait up to 2 weeks to fully redeem any coin transacted on the LN network.
As you can see some alts are so much cheaper and faster, they play on a completely different level.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: DooMAD on August 21, 2018, 07:42:09 AM
Fees
1.  LN default average fee per transactions is $0.06 and that is if only 1 hop is required.
     Litecoin average onchain fee per transaction is $0.01

Any coin can have cheap fees on-chain if there isn't sufficient demand for their usage.    

Litecoin's total blockchain size (https://bitinfocharts.com/litecoin/) is 18.61 GB
Bitcoin's total blockchain size (https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/) is 210.86 GB

If Litecoin was forced to handle the volume of traffic Bitcoin handles, there are two possible outcomes.  Either their fees wouldn't be so cheap, or their total blockchain size would be substantially larger than Bitcoin's currently is because of their shorter blocktime.  It's called supply and demand.  Maybe you should gain a better understanding of simple concepts like this before you go making inane comparisons that don't actually mean anything.


Litecoin is also segwit infected and as such also usuable on the Lightning Network.  

This is a positive, not a negative.  Wait for Atomic Swaps.  Litecoin might actually see more on-chain demand then.  That could be where people choose to make their micropayments.  These are the possibilities we're creating.


So while LN makes bitcoin faster & cheaper, it still does not make it faster and cheaper than all alts.

It doesn't need to be "faster and cheaper than all alts".  This is what you don't understand.  Bitcoin has a greater mining difficulty and total hashrate than any other network on the face of the planet.  It is therefore the most secure.  It seems that many users place a great deal of value in the security of Bitcoin and they're clearly willing to pay for it.  If you feel your transaction doesn't need as much security, you can do it off-chain, or use coins on another LN-compatible chain and then Atomic Swap back to BTC later when you need to deal with more significant sums of money.


As you can see some alts are so much cheaper and faster, they play on a completely different level.

A level so insignificant that no one cares about them.   :D

Go and play with your SHITECOIN if you think it's so much better, leave us in peace.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: junglist.massive on September 08, 2018, 11:21:04 AM
Lightning network is a good thing for Bitcoin, but the implementation is still in the experimental stage that causes some transactions failed. If looking at the price of Bitcoin, the current market is sti (http://yubster.com)ll cannot response positive or negative.


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: amdempse on September 08, 2018, 11:31:29 AM
Hmmm I'm still concerned by the transaction fees.....opening and closing a Lightning Network channel is going to be a lot more expensive than a VISA or PayPal transaction. It will however have the advantage of being a lot quicker than these......however, most people don't care about the speed if they're just making a purchase in a shop or something


Title: Re: Lightning network
Post by: EddyGameta on September 14, 2018, 08:48:13 AM
This is not a new thing in crypto, this is just a new system implementation on Bitcoin which is currently still has issues that can be seen from some failed transactions. Many users even early adopters are dubious or even reject this, some are here too, this is a natural thing, as long as it doesnít drop the price and create a security gap then itís a good thing IMO.