Bitcoin Forum

How long until you give up on this idea? Will it last more than 24 hours?

So I purchase a share of the KIVA asset for 1 bitcoin.  That bitcoin is deposited into the KIVA account.  Someone then has to cash it out on an exchange and deposit the real money into a KIVA account so it can be lent out to people in need?  How does this do anything other than add a middleman step? 

Could you explain the 10% rake?  Why are you setting aside 10% of the funds for two years?  Is that long enough in your estimation for people to have forgotten about them and not ask how they were spent?

don't trust atlas with money.

This guy has raised money for several project on this forum before, none of them have been carried out as he claimed.

don't trust atlas with money.

This guy has raised money for several project on this forum before, none of them have been carried out as he claimed.

Do not trust this man's word. I have proposed several projects and did not go through with them. I have returned all money I may have collected.

Do not trust this man's word. I have proposed several projects and did not go through with them. I have returned all money I may have collected.

No.

http://www.kiva.org/about/how

But microcredit in India doesn't come cheap.

The cost may be shocking to anyone in the United States who's ever borrowed for a car or a house.

"Just so your audience can brace themselves, the typical interest rates are in a range of 24 to 30 percent per annum," says Vijay Mahajan, president of the Microfinance Institutions Network, a trade group. "Most people find it very hard that this interest rate does any good to poor people who are the recipients."

One reason interest rates are so high, Mahajan says, is that microlending is both time and labor intensive.

Microfinance lenders do their business on the client's doorstep, meaning that representatives have to travel to slums or rural villages to make the loans and then come back weekly to collect the payments. But microfinance was also very profitable. So much so, says Shubhankar Sengupta, director of a Kolkata-based microfinance company called Arohan Financial Services, that it made sense to run it as a commercial venture, tapping into investment banks for the vast amounts of money needed to fuel the growing number of microloans.

It was so profitable that one company, SKS Microfinance, raised $357 million when it went public on the Mumbai stock exchange in August.

One Woman's Story

Rama is an example of microfinance gone wrong. She makes her living rolling bidis, the cheap little cigars smoked by India's poorest people. She lives in the town of Warangal, a farming center in Andhra Pradesh, one of the poorest states in southern India.

One woman cuts the leaves into shape, while Rama and others roll the smokes and bundle them into baskets. A quick, persistent worker can earn between 30 and 40 rupees rolling bidis, less than $1 a day.

Rama says microfinance representatives offered her a loan, with almost no questions asked. She took it, though she didn't have a plan to invest the money or pay it back. She used the money for household expenses, for medical treatment for family members, and to celebrate a birthday. A second company offered her another loan, which she used to make payments on the first.

Kurapati Venkatanarayana, who teaches economics at Kakatiya University in Warangal, says Rama began a downward spiral that's common among debtors in Warangal.

"They get loans from the second company, and pay to the first company. They take the third loan from third company, and pay to the first and second company," he said.

Before long, Rama had five loans from different companies, and no way to pay.

She says the collectors from the finance companies hounded her day and night, shaming her in front of her neighbors. They told her to get the money any way she could, by stealing if necessary, she says, and they told her she'd be better off dead.

Venkatanarayana says that's because, unbeknownst to her, Rama's loan payments had included a life-insurance premium.

"If the people who borrow die, the microfinance companies get the insurance amount," he said.

Rama says her 17-year-old daughter, Mounika, took the threats to heart. Mounika believed that if anyone in the family committed suicide, the debts would somehow be erased: She doused herself with kerosene from the stove. It took two days for her to die from the burns.

I have returned all money I may have collected. This is not a botch on my record.

I am clean, trustworthy and reliable.

I have finished many projects. It's just have more ideas than I do projects. There is nothing wrong with proposing ideas on a forum and not going through with them. I was merely checking their viability.

Project Mainstream is coming along just fine. I got on Alex Jones and I am working with institutions to get ads up. You do not know my true record.

I am the first person you want to go to when it comes to accomplishing a project I truly believe in and that includes this one.

Two years of robotics and various other ones that may or may not be on here. I have nothing to prove. You have my real name and my address:

125 Cedar Elm Lane
Georgetown, TX
78633

I am here to complete the task at hand and only help people.

I am fine. However, you are polluting this thread with irrelevant posts. I am going to ask you to either participate with the topic at hand or leave.

I am fine. However, you are polluting this thread with irrelevant posts. I am going to ask you to either participate with the topic at hand or leave.

Kiva charges no interest. Those are different organizations.

Some people, including microfinance pioneer Muhammad Yunus, argue that the interest rates of many microcredit institutions are unreasonably high. In his latest book[23] he argues that microfinance institutions that charge more than 15% above their long-term operating costs should face penalties.

For example, in 2009 micro-loans from Kiva partners in Guatemala averaged 23.16% for the equivalent of US$430 lent on average, comparable to the commercial BanRural rate of 24.5% for a loan of US$635.[24] (For reference, the inflation rate for Guatemala typically varies between 5 and 10% and was just 0.62% in 2009.[25])

I am the first person you want to go to when it comes to accomplishing a project I truly believe in and that includes this one.

There's just a loud dissident minority.

I haven't lost the trust of the people on this forum. There's just a loud dissident minority. I am a trustworthy and reliable individual with uncompromising morals. I am fine. However, you are polluting this thread.

I haven't lost the trust of the people on this forum.

I haven't lost the trust of the people on this forum. There's just a loud dissident minority. I am a trustworthy and reliable individual with uncompromising morals. I am fine. However, you are polluting this thread.

If I believed in them, they would be either sitting in a someday/maybe list or I would be working on them as we speak.

that's why I say your talent is to be a religionist, a missonary, not a man carrying out real project. You can just believe the things you want to believe, and just ignore the fact that everyone can see. And you can leverage this talent to become a missonary, give speech with passion, and maybe you can start your own New Religion, and the follower of you will only accept bitcoin.

have a try, and you will be huge success.

Really?  You are delusional.  How about you start a poll asking if people believe you will see this project through to completion?

That's some fucked up shit for you to be into, Atlas. I don't know about this.

There is nothing to relate to. Most things that are said are false.

There is nothing to relate to. Most things that are said are false.

Alright, that is a contradiction. However, I don't feel a poll is an accurate measure. There is more incentive for those who don't like me to vote than those who happen to support me and casually read the forum.

Alright, that is a contradiction. However, I don't feel a poll is an accurate measure. There is more incentive for those who don't like me to vote than those who happen to support me and casually read the forum.

I am going to investigate this.

From what I am seeing, the interest rates are fairly competitive considering how small the loans are. If you compare this to the return rate (98.75%), this really isn't a cause for an alarm. There might be isolated cases where taking on the debt is damaging but loans are risky business and individuals have to prepare themselves. Kiva should work towards better education if these loans are hurting some people.

Whether defaults are extremely low has been questioned on the ground that a field partner may pay Kiva for loans defaulted to the field partner in order to maintain the field partner‘s good credit with Kiva.[36] Whether interest rates collected by field partners are enough to pay for significant defaults depends on local economic conditions for each field partner.

No. I really don't know. Do what you wish. The fact is I am an honest and reliable individual.

I haven't done this.

I really don't. Ask the majority and they will say I am a reputable guy.

Atlas might be controversial but I haven't seen anybody who has actually lost money to him.

He has explicitly stated before, that he wants to get his project-ideas out early to get feedback, even if they are not fully thought through.

Although I don't necessarily approve of this strategy and while I certainly don't share his world view, he strikes me as a passionate and honorable young man with a civilized style of debate who indeed does have earned himself some respect around here.

Regardless of that, I don't think ad hominem attacks are very helpful in any case and the tone in this particular thread leaves certainly much to be desired.

Atlas might be controversial but I haven't seen anybody who has actually lost money to him.

He has explicitly stated before, that he wants to get his project-ideas out early to get feedback, even if they are not fully thought through.

Although I don't necessarily approve of this strategy and while I certainly don't share his world view, he strikes me as a passionate and honorable young man with a civilized style of debate who indeed does have earned himself some respect around here.

I see no consensus pointing towards Kiva's lending program doing harm. Credit can be harmful but it can be done consciously and responsibly. It is necessary for starting many businesses and entrepreneurship is the engine that drives wealth product.

I hold Kiva as a charity because it does help people and it helps them efficiently with actual production of wealth for societies.

I hold Kiva as a charity because it does help people and it helps them efficiently with actual production of wealth for societies.

If an organization's profit is help bringing people out of poverty and the means are effective, I hold it as a charity.

No. I've seen the statistics and the critiques. There is room for improvement but I only see a net positive.

I would highly prefer if all of you stayed out of my affairs and used your time more effectively.

I don't bid on jobs. Nobody ever came to me for the ideas I proposed. Your analogy is bunk.

If an organization's profit is help bringing people out of poverty and the means are effective, I hold it as a charity.