Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Speculation => Topic started by: Nagle on October 18, 2011, 08:24:02 AM



Title: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Nagle on October 18, 2011, 08:24:02 AM
Take a look at all those black bars on Bitcoin Charts.  ExchB's shutdown was the big news today, but several of the little guys have given it up recently as well. We're down to Mt. Gox, Tradehill, and Btc-E now.

Now look at the volumes in dollars.  The standard 0.6% commission rate yields about $8000 per month for Mt. Gox, $810 per month for Tradehill, and $384 a month for Btc-E.  And that's a maximum; many big traders get discounts.
 
Tradehill apparently has a real organization and staff, but revenue is comparable to a half-time job at McDonalds. That can't last. Btc-E, forget it. Mt. Gox has some business in other currencies, but the numbers aren't that big.

The end is in sight.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: zby on October 18, 2011, 08:28:24 AM
MtGox has a trial in France - anyone can guess the costs?  The office in Shibuya must also cost a lot - this is I think the most expensive district in Tokyo.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: SlaveInDebt on October 18, 2011, 08:56:26 AM
Trade Hill @ $810 a month is full time at McDonalds. BTCe is at part time McDonalds employment.
I take it you make a modest living.

The end is some where.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 09:28:13 AM
For all I care they could all shut down.

A decentralized exchange method will come up.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 09:31:32 AM
A decentralized exchange method will come up.
no not really. how do you decentralize the holding of USD or EUR?
you can't. except for slow expensive wire transfers, or person-to-person.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: old_engineer on October 18, 2011, 09:31:48 AM
Now look at the volumes in dollars.  The standard 0.6% commission rate yields about $8000 per month for Mt. Gox, $810 per month for Tradehill, and $384 a month for Btc-E.  And that's a maximum; many big traders get discounts.
Average volume for the past month looks like about $150k USD/day, which at 0.5% commission, is $750/day, or $22500 per month.  Are you sure you were looking at volume in dollars, and not volume in bitcoins?  $8000 per month / .006 = $1.3M per month, and they had $600k in currency volume yesterday alone.

$22500 per month is enough to pay $5k for rent (it's a shared office), $5k for hosting fees, and a living wage for 3 people (I'm assuming they can pay employees equity for the rest).  They could have easily paid cash all their hardware back when they were making $5,000 - $10,000 per day back in May/June/July.

Sure looks to me like Bitcoin can support at least one exchange, even though it's no longer the heady days of June.  And they could have easily taken $250k in investment money in June had they wanted to; I'm sure their phone rang with offers, and they had the choice whether to accept it or not.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 09:38:27 AM
A decentralized exchange method will come up.
no not really. how do you decentralize the holding of USD or EUR?
you can't. except for slow expensive wire transfers, or person-to-person.
Ideally a web of trust cryptoheaven along with sovereign tribal entities based upon community (dark)nets replacing traditional nation-states.

One can always dream :P
But anything along the lines some magnitudes less sophisticated would suffice.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: nmat on October 18, 2011, 09:40:14 AM
Average volume for the past month looks like about $150k USD/day, which at 0.5% commission, is $750/day, or $22500 per month.  Are you sure you were looking at volume in dollars, and not volume in bitcoins?  $8000 per month / .006 = $1.3M per month, and they had $600k in currency volume yesterday alone.

$22500 per month is enough to pay $5k for rent (it's a shared office), $5k for hosting fees, and a living wage for 3 people (I'm assuming they can pay employees equity for the rest).  They could have easily paid cash all their hardware back when they were making $5,000 - $10,000 per day back in May/June/July.

Sure looks to me like Bitcoin can support at least one exchange, even though it's no longer the heady days of June.  And they could have easily taken $250k in investment money in June had they wanted to; I'm sure their phone rang with offers, and they had the choice whether to accept it or not.

I believe you are correct, but we need to have more than one exchange. At least I like to have options. I often trade at CampBX for example and their volume is much lower (they are currently earning around $170 per month I think).


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 09:41:55 AM
A decentralized exchange method will come up.
no not really. how do you decentralize the holding of USD or EUR?
you can't. except for slow expensive wire transfers, or person-to-person.
Ideally a web of trust cryptoheaven along with sovereign tribal entities based upon community (dark)nets replacing traditional nation-states.

One can always dream :P
But anything along the lines some magnitudes less sophisticated would suffice.
is'nt that what bitcoin, tor and freenet is?


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 09:44:17 AM
A decentralized exchange method will come up.
no not really. how do you decentralize the holding of USD or EUR?
you can't. except for slow expensive wire transfers, or person-to-person.
Ideally a web of trust cryptoheaven along with sovereign tribal entities based upon community (dark)nets replacing traditional nation-states.

One can always dream :P
But anything along the lines some magnitudes less sophisticated would suffice.
is'nt that what bitcoin, tor and freenet is?

I'm talking about the physical layer here, the internet can be shut down, WLAN & optical direct joint access cannot. But that's still overshoot.

Something like I like to sell 10 BTC and would like 30USD someone in my area want to do the opposite, the system provides a location & we meet.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 09:46:15 AM
the internet can be shut down.
no it can not, a country can close all connections, from it self, but not shut the whole thing down. simply not possible.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 09:47:50 AM
the internet can be shut down.
no it can not, a country can close all connections, from it self, but not shut the whole thing down. simply not possible.
Correction the last mile isps can be. The cronies would still have the datacenters and international fiber lines.

Also the physical exchange of values can be buffered/delayed and managed by the system. Bin-packing algos and stuff.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: old_engineer on October 18, 2011, 10:01:39 AM
For all I care they could all shut down.

A decentralized exchange method will come up.

There's also a good chance bitcoin will be prohibited under US FINCEN rules, which would cause the whole thing to move underground.

But rather than a decentralized techno-darknet, I think the replacement would be more like how drugs are distributed now, with a shadow distribution network.

Wouldn't it be ironic if weed were regulated and taxed like alcohol, available for purchase in stores, but bitcoins were illegal and had to be bought in person?  "Sorry honey, I'll be home late, I'm meeting up with my bitcoin dealer after work".


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 10:03:03 AM
For all I care they could all shut down.

A decentralized exchange method will come up.

There's also a good chance bitcoin will be prohibited under US FINCEN rules, which would cause the whole thing to move underground.

But rather than a decentralized techno-darknet, I think the replacement would be more like how drugs are distributed now, with a shadow distribution network.

Wouldn't it be ironic if weed were regulated and taxed like alcohol, available for purchase in stores, but bitcoins were illegal and had to be bought in person?  "Sorry honey, I'll be home late, I'm meeting up with my bitcoin dealer after work".
FUCK THE US.

im from denmark, and mtgox is in japan. :P

can't touch me!


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: old_engineer on October 18, 2011, 10:13:46 AM
FUCK THE US.

im from denmark, and mtgox is in japan. :P

can't touch me!
About 1/3 of bitcoin hosts are in the USA:
http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/countryHosts.html

If it happens, you'll be affected, albeit indirectly.  Maybe we can get Occupy Wall Street to make Bitcoin legalization one of their demands. :)


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: fivebells on October 18, 2011, 10:30:57 AM
FUCK THE US.

im from denmark, and mtgox is in japan. :P

can't touch me!
Your or Bin Laden. :)


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: cbeast on October 18, 2011, 11:30:20 AM
For all I care they could all shut down.

A decentralized exchange method will come up.

There's also a good chance bitcoin will be prohibited under US FINCEN rules, which would cause the whole thing to move underground.

But rather than a decentralized techno-darknet, I think the replacement would be more like how drugs are distributed now, with a shadow distribution network.

Wouldn't it be ironic if weed were regulated and taxed like alcohol, available for purchase in stores, but bitcoins were illegal and had to be bought in person?  "Sorry honey, I'll be home late, I'm meeting up with my bitcoin dealer after work".

If I buy bitcoin with Euro in Japan, then how is FINCEN involved?


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 11:40:20 AM
Remember 2 things people: DCMA (well most probably weren't even intersted in 'this stuff' back then)
and the US Patriot Act.

Both have their equivalent all over Europe and the Asian industrialized nations heck even the whole world. Don't be that naive  >:( 


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 11:43:07 AM
Remember 2 things people: DCMA (well most probably weren't even intersted in 'this stuff' back then)
and the US Patriot Act.

Both have their equivalent all over Europe and the Asian industrialized nations heck even the whole world. Don't be that naive  >:( 
link to the EU Patriot Act, please?


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 11:44:25 AM
Remember 2 things people: DCMA (well most probably weren't even intersted in 'this stuff' back then)
and the US Patriot Act.

Both have their equivalent all over Europe and the Asian industrialized nations heck even the whole world. Don't be that naive  >:( 
link to the EU Patriot Act, please?
I don't know what it is called where you live, every nation has it's own implementation.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: dancupid on October 18, 2011, 12:38:04 PM
The exchanges take their fee from both sides of the transaction - so you can double any estimate.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 12:39:20 PM
Remember 2 things people: DCMA (well most probably weren't even intersted in 'this stuff' back then)
and the US Patriot Act.

Both have their equivalent all over Europe and the Asian industrialized nations heck even the whole world. Don't be that naive  >:( 
link to the EU Patriot Act, please?
I don't know what it is called where you live, every nation has it's own implementation.
can you even imagine a world without it?


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 12:42:51 PM
Remember 2 things people: DCMA (well most probably weren't even intersted in 'this stuff' back then)
and the US Patriot Act.

Both have their equivalent all over Europe and the Asian industrialized nations heck even the whole world. Don't be that naive  >:( 
link to the EU Patriot Act, please?
I don't know what it is called where you live, every nation has it's own implementation.
can you even imagine a world without it?

I can imagine may things, basically all I ever do  :-[


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 12:48:31 PM
link to the EU Patriot Act, please?
I don't know what it is called where you live, every nation has it's own implementation.
can you even imagine a world without it?
I can imagine may things, basically all I ever do  :-[
certainly not. come to denmark


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Crypt_Current on October 18, 2011, 01:29:32 PM
It was actually pretty scary (I remember reading it in 2005), but thankfully never ratified, as far as I can tell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 01:33:27 PM
It was actually pretty scary (I remember reading it in 2005), but thankfully never ratified, as far as I can tell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe
+1 see? Europe is better, ElectricMucus.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Crypt_Current on October 18, 2011, 01:39:44 PM
It was actually pretty scary (I remember reading it in 2005), but thankfully never ratified, as far as I can tell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe
+1 see? Europe is better, ElectricMucus.

Well, for what it's worth, I remember reading a draft of this treaty back in 2005 and it scared the shit out of me.  I'm currently trying to dig that up...  France and the Dutch held their ground against this thing for a reason.

And, I live in the USA and I am a proud American and I love my country, so please stop hatin'; however, I will defend your right to hate. (but only so far on any given day ... depends on my mood).


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 01:45:42 PM
It was actually pretty scary (I remember reading it in 2005), but thankfully never ratified, as far as I can tell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe
+1 see? Europe is better, ElectricMucus.

Well, for what it's worth, I remember reading a draft of this treaty back in 2005 and it scared the shit out of me.  I'm currently trying to dig that up...  France and the Dutch held their ground against this thing for a reason.

And, I live in the USA and I am a proud American and I love my country, so please stop hatin'; however, I will defend your right to hate. (but only so far on any given day ... depends on my mood).
oh im not hating, we just better than you, except for making burgers :P


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Crypt_Current on October 18, 2011, 01:48:19 PM
It was actually pretty scary (I remember reading it in 2005), but thankfully never ratified, as far as I can tell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe
+1 see? Europe is better, ElectricMucus.

Well, for what it's worth, I remember reading a draft of this treaty back in 2005 and it scared the shit out of me.  I'm currently trying to dig that up...  France and the Dutch held their ground against this thing for a reason.

And, I live in the USA and I am a proud American and I love my country, so please stop hatin'; however, I will defend your right to hate. (but only so far on any given day ... depends on my mood).
oh im not hating, we just better than you, except for making burgers :P

But yous are haves bad grammar  XD


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: kokjo on October 18, 2011, 01:50:32 PM
It was actually pretty scary (I remember reading it in 2005), but thankfully never ratified, as far as I can tell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe
+1 see? Europe is better, ElectricMucus.

Well, for what it's worth, I remember reading a draft of this treaty back in 2005 and it scared the shit out of me.  I'm currently trying to dig that up...  France and the Dutch held their ground against this thing for a reason.

And, I live in the USA and I am a proud American and I love my country, so please stop hatin'; however, I will defend your right to hate. (but only so far on any given day ... depends on my mood).
oh im not hating, we just better than you, except for making burgers :P

But yous are haves bad grammar  XD
oh yes, im not a one native English speakering.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Serge on October 18, 2011, 04:02:49 PM
OP, lets call it the end now and release you once for all from returning back here ;)


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2011, 04:26:31 PM
It was actually pretty scary (I remember reading it in 2005), but thankfully never ratified, as far as I can tell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe
+1 see? Europe is better, ElectricMucus.
Well... unless I'm living under a rock

Quote
In the June 2007 European summit meeting, Member States agreed to abandon the constitution and to amend the existing treaties, which would remain in force. They also agreed a detailed mandate for a new intergovernmental conference to negotiate a new treaty containing such amendments to the existing treaties (primarily the Treaty of Rome and the Treaty of Maastricht). These negotiations were completed by the end of the year, the new treaty which had previously been referred to as the Reform Treaty become the Lisbon Treaty on its signing in Lisbon on 13 December 2007.
And this is almost as bad, but besides the case (or not it still reduces the sovereignty of member states and so increases centralization)

I live in Austria, we have something here called the "Sicherheitspolizeigesetz" which is essentially the Patriot act adopted for a small nation without substantial military resources but it reduces civil liberties non the less and was adopted imminently after the USA did their Patriot Act.
While some implementations of whatever you may call it may sound more liberal at first glance if you look into it it basically means the same pretext can be applied in the same exact way as in the "big thing" from the US.

Right there are some places in the industrialized world which lead the whole thing in terms of practical usage, I wouldn't want to live in London, NYC or Singapore but besides some hotspots there is a continuous trend towards a more police state like society as well.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: d.james on October 18, 2011, 04:33:37 PM

Now look at the volumes in dollars.  The standard 0.6% commission rate yields about $8000 per month for Mt. Gox, $810 per month for Tradehill, and $384 a month for Btc-E.  And that's a maximum; many big traders get discounts.
AFAIK, Mt.Gox charges 0.6% standard commission for both buyers and sellers, effectively they're charging 1.2% for each trade.
So they're getting $16,000 a month max(assuming your $8000 figure was correct),still not a lot but surely looks twice as better.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Nagle on October 18, 2011, 05:22:20 PM
Average volume for the past month looks like about $150k USD/day, which at 0.5% commission, is $750/day, or $22500 per month.  Are you sure you were looking at volume in dollars, and not volume in bitcoins?  $8000 per month / .006 = $1.3M per month, and they had $600k in currency volume yesterday alone.
You are right. Sorry.

Of course, with Bitcoins at $2.50 or so, the difference isn't that big any more. Even Mt. Gox's $22K a month isn't much for a business in Tokyo which has a few employees, a server farm, bank transaction costs, and substantial exposure to theft losses.

Every other exchange is making too little money to survive.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Zotia on October 18, 2011, 06:31:46 PM
Now look at the volumes in dollars.  The standard 0.6% commission rate yields about $8000 per month for Mt. Gox, $810 per month for Tradehill, and $384 a month for Btc-E.


The current 30 day volumes for those sites at the time of this post... 
(See http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ for current numbers).


6,136,000 USD for MTGOX
619,000 USD for TH
293,000 USD for BTCE

Now let's calculate their monthly income at 0.6% commission that is taken from both sides of the trade...

MTGOX... 6,136,000 USD * 0.006 * 2 = 73,632 USD
TH... 619,000 USD * 0.006 * 2 = 7,428 USD
BTCE... 293,000 USD * 0.006 * 2 = 3,516 USD


You are off by nearly an order of magnitude.

And that's a maximum; many big traders get discounts.
The lowest commission rate at mtgox is 0.25%, so let's use that as a minimum...

MTGOX... 6,136,000 USD * 0.0025 * 2 = 30,680 USD
TH... 619,000 USD * 0.0025 * 2 = 3,095 USD
BTCE... 293,000 USD * 0.0025 * 2 = 1,465 USD


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: old_engineer on October 18, 2011, 06:35:19 PM
The lowest commission rate at mtgox is 0.25%, so let's use that as a minimum...

MTGOX... 6,136,000 USD * 0.0025 * 2 = 30,680 USD
TH... 619,000 USD * 0.0025 * 2 = 3,095 USD
BTCE... 293,000 USD * 0.0025 * 2 = 1,465 USD

Back when hey had a flat 0.6% back in June, they made $42,000 IN ONE DAY when volume was $3.5M, and have had a number of days over $20k.  I guess there still is a lot of interest in bitcoin, wouldn't you agree Nagle? :)

The network effect is strong, and though 2-3 exchanges would be nice, the fact that bitcoin doesn't need any exchanges is worth pointing out yet again.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: tvbcof on October 18, 2011, 08:50:53 PM

Regarding exchange revenue, two factors which make it hard (for me) to do the math are as follows:

 1) who does dark pool stuff (at least CampBX iirc) and if anyone, is it possible to obtain some rough numbers here?

 2)  The overhead of dealing with funding hassles, fraud, AML stuff, etc must be significant.  I would guess that would even a majority of the operating expenses for an enterprise which is big enough to do it semi-adequately, and then even if it is about as well automated as possible.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: imsaguy on October 18, 2011, 08:52:28 PM
For all I care they could all shut down.

A decentralized exchange method will come up.

#bitcoin-otc



Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: PatrickHarnett on October 18, 2011, 09:51:57 PM
When I went past MtGox's office in July it was unfortunately a Saturday and closed, but the offices were part of a major corporation, not a small bitcoin trading company.  They might rent some space or use some of the hosting services for the IT company there, but not a proper "store front".

More likely they operate out of the "home" address that was hunted up some months ago.  Plus, the cost of running it once it is set up is smaller.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: eldentyrell on October 20, 2011, 06:19:07 AM
A decentralized exchange method will come up.

A huge part of we call an "exchange" is largely an "interface to the fiat banking system".

The fiat banking system will not interface with a decentralized exchange.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: cypherdoc on October 20, 2011, 01:31:47 PM
Take a look at all those black bars on Bitcoin Charts.  ExchB's shutdown was the big news today, but several of the little guys have given it up recently as well. We're down to Mt. Gox, Tradehill, and Btc-E now.

Now look at the volumes in dollars.  The standard 0.6% commission rate yields about $8000 per month for Mt. Gox, $810 per month for Tradehill, and $384 a month for Btc-E.  And that's a maximum; many big traders get discounts.
 
Tradehill apparently has a real organization and staff, but revenue is comparable to a half-time job at McDonalds. That can't last. Btc-E, forget it. Mt. Gox has some business in other currencies, but the numbers aren't that big.

The end is in sight.

It is clear that one should not open a casino without deep pockets...

But this has to be spin in the worst way because I can not believe you would be so gone on your calculations otherwise.

First of all, the commission is taken on both the buy and the sell side of the transaction. So, let's take the example of TradeHill...

Monthly Dollar Volume: $619,375
.054% X 2: $6,689 per month.

Not $810 per month. Admittedly, nobody at TradeHill is getting rich, but the nominal per capita GDP in Chile for 2010 was $11,828/year. That could provide a few middle class salaries there. Much better than a McDonalds worker in the U.S.

Seriously dude, why would you skew this so much? It does nothing but harm your credibility. If you want to make the case for the death of Bitcoin at least show some real numbers.

its long been my contention that the only way to explain Nagles dedicated participation here on this forum is that he is a paid troll.  there is no other way to justify the amount of time and energy he spends here.  look at his pathetic website one day and ask yourself why he doesn't bother to post more than once a year on his own creation?


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 20, 2011, 01:40:34 PM
A decentralized exchange method will come up.

A huge part of we call an "exchange" is largely an "interface to the fiat banking system".

The fiat banking system will not interface with a decentralized exchange.
Yes, I agree. However nobody can stop us from using chash anyway we want... at least not yet and certainly not within the timeframe a more wider btc adaption is thinkable.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: cypherdoc on October 20, 2011, 01:46:52 PM
Take a look at all those black bars on Bitcoin Charts.  ExchB's shutdown was the big news today, but several of the little guys have given it up recently as well. We're down to Mt. Gox, Tradehill, and Btc-E now.
here is a list of exchanges.
Quote
Now look at the volumes in dollars.  The standard 0.6% commission rate yields about $8000 per month for Mt. Gox, $810 per month for Tradehill, and $384 a month for Btc-E.  And that's a maximum; many big traders get discounts.

you really are disgusting Nagle.  the volumes on the y axis at BitcoinCharts are in Bitcoins, not USD.  for example go there and look at just Todays Volume=28,592 BTC or 66,225.74 USD.  thats an extraordinary profit.

Quote
Tradehill apparently has a real organization and staff, but revenue is comparable to a half-time job at McDonalds. That can't last. Btc-E, forget it. Mt. Gox has some business in other currencies, but the numbers aren't that big.

The end is in sight.

how much do they pay you to be stupid?


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: cypherdoc on October 20, 2011, 01:54:19 PM

http://www.downside.com/

everyone please go to this piece of sh*t and draw your own conclusions.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: Nagle on October 20, 2011, 04:39:23 PM
you really are disgusting Nagle.  the volumes on the y axis at BitcoinCharts are in Bitcoins, not USD.  for example go there and look at just Todays Volume=28,592 BTC or 66,225.74 USD.  thats an extraordinary profit.
Go to the left column of a chart on BitcoinCharts. Click the checkbox marked "Volume in Currency".


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: nmat on October 20, 2011, 04:48:31 PM
you really are disgusting Nagle.  the volumes on the y axis at BitcoinCharts are in Bitcoins, not USD.  for example go there and look at just Todays Volume=28,592 BTC or 66,225.74 USD.  thats an extraordinary profit.

Volumes are incredibly low right now. We are coming back to April/May levels, which may also may explain the price drop.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: cypherdoc on October 20, 2011, 05:47:48 PM
you really are disgusting Nagle. the volumes on the y axis at BitcoinCharts are in Bitcoins, not USD. for example go there and look at just Todays Volume=28,592 BTC or 66,225.74 USD.  thats an extraordinary profit.
Go to the left column of a chart on BitcoinCharts. Click the checkbox marked "Volume in Currency".

ok, i did.  change the time period to 1 month on a weekly basis with show volume bars and volume in currency checked.  lets take the last 4 wks volume which will undershoot mtgox's revenues since these probably represent the weakest volumes since May.

if i total the 4 volume currency bars i get 4.4 M USD revenue.  multiply by 1.2% gives monthly revenues of $52800.  more than enough for expenses plus healthy profits.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: PatrickHarnett on October 20, 2011, 07:36:03 PM


if i total the 4 volume currency bars i get 4.4 M USD revenue.  multiply by 1.2% gives monthly revenues of $52800.  more than enough for expenses plus healthy profits.

Or just take the 30-day volume from bitcoin charts.

MtGox = USD5.416m
TradeHill = USD0.585m
Several others > $100k

Even some of the little start-ups have modest volume over $1000 in a month, and while they will not get very rich even at a 1% fee, it's not costing them a lot to set up.


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: anu on October 24, 2011, 07:05:45 PM
For all I care they could all shut down.

A decentralized exchange method will come up.

Better come up with a decentralized way of doing Silk Road  ;D


Title: Re: Exchanges shutting down
Post by: ElectricMucus on October 24, 2011, 07:17:06 PM
For all I care they could all shut down.

A decentralized exchange method will come up.

Better come up with a decentralized way of doing Silk Road  ;D
Well what you exchange doesn't really matter at this point, but I think we aren't that far away from a decentralized anonymous grid computing platform.
I think we could even call it skynet, it would obviously get demonized might as well go for the real deal  ;D