Bitcoin Forum

EDIT: This post is not about the trade of merit nor i'm accusing theese members.
This only shows that the majority of high ranked members have a perfect merit score, thanks to distribution, and that most of them didn't earn a single merit point in 7 months in the whole forum.
that's the problem. Is way too hard to earn merit, maintening the status quo of who is high ranked with an airdrop.

So I noticed that a lot of accounts in here are so lucky to have just the right amount of Merit for their rank.
Let's make a list  ;D
I will remove the users as soon as they gain 5% Merit from the screenshoot.
Shouldn't be hard to earn that 5% if the merit system works, right? :)

I'm going to track only Full Members and above, checking 1 random thread every day and keeping some stats.
If anyone want to contribute please do  ;D


Thread Analyzed: Ethereum Vs Bitcoin  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3099652)
Number of posts: 106
Lucky posters: 20 (18.86%)

20 full members or above have a perfect score
7 have a perfect score+1
8 have a diversified score

it means that in 7 months(the merit system was integrated in january) most of the high ranked members that posted in that thread didn't managed to earn 1 SINGLE merit.
which is even a better indicator that the merit system need improvements. and by that I mean more merit sources.
there are only 84 merit sources for over 2mln users.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1187917
https://i.imgur.com/blahwm4.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1002351
https://i.imgur.com/rfa1Ygy.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1026769
https://i.imgur.com/mQBY72p.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=23970
https://i.imgur.com/elvVXHl.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1052347
https://i.imgur.com/3H4MiKL.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=932978
https://i.imgur.com/r75A6bP.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=380896
https://i.imgur.com/DVq5Cyp.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=994347
https://i.imgur.com/MiSNnJd.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=561007
https://i.imgur.com/MZtxeNH.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1041898
https://i.imgur.com/CxWalxe.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=549786
https://i.imgur.com/MEwThCZ.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1029932
https://i.imgur.com/R2ltf4z.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1118451
https://i.imgur.com/dZjOu7t.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=721609
https://i.imgur.com/VdQskTV.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=201779
https://i.imgur.com/6yts9UQ.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1190694
https://i.imgur.com/tGvqnI1.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=330283
https://i.imgur.com/yKHOXVR.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=816901
https://i.imgur.com/7WB4XxL.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=362227
https://i.imgur.com/cxph8lz.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1005212
https://i.imgur.com/dmzJHzW.png

I feel like some most of the users on that list, have the amount of merit that was airdropped. IIrc we are 200 activity in from when merit was introduced.
 
So a senior member with anything over 450 for activity and 250 likely hasn't received a merit but had reached the rank prior to the system.

Maybe I misunderstand what you are calling out here.

I checked few and seems so as well, there are however many cases where some user got exactly the merit necessary to rank up in a short and impressive time, after that nothing.

You are right, they are lucky because most of users of your list got  initial merit equal to their rank when theymos released merit system.

Probably that's the case, which brings us to another interesting statistic from that topic.

20 full members or above have a perfect score
7 have a perfect score+1
8 have a diversified score

it means that in 7 months(the merit system was integrated in january) most of the high ranked members that posted in that thread didn't managed to earn 1 SINGLE merit.
which is even a better indicator that the merit system need improvements. and by that I mean more merit sources.
there are only 84 merit sources for over 2mln users.

You just prove to us that this thread is also one of the trash thread that complain about the merit system.

They are so lucky you are right, but there's nothing we can do about that, the system is already implemented that way.


Why you only track those high members that dont get the merit system since the implementation? Why dont track all the users already registered before the system?

Is that because it Includes you to the list that REGISTERED MEMBERS BEFORE THE MERIT SYSTEM WHO DONT MANAGE TO GET EVEN 1 MERIT SINCE THE IMPLEMENTATION?

There is no difference between you and those on your list aside from they are luckier than you or even us because they already here for a long time and I think its a fair reward for their existence in the forum before the merit system.

It just means there are a ton of shitposters. A lot of posters that contribute a small amount not worthy of merit and a tiny number of users that make merit-able content.

I'm not a merit source but my meriting criteria is:

1) Avoid meriting posts that talk about merit (exceptions are occasionally made).
2) Check poster history for regular bounty or advertising shitposts.
3) Is the post of sufficient quality to deserve merit. Funny, unique, informative, helpful and well intended. (not merit begging)

As you can see from the search results and the amount of threads of the same name. It is neither unique nor interesting conversation.
Someone who has merit to give is unlikely to be visiting the thread.

https://i.imgur.com/NYkxzht.png

1. How are you different from these people, except that you registered late and did not have time to fill enough activity?

2. Why keep track of users who last visited the forum in April?


Last Active:   April 14, 2018, 04:59:21 AM

3. I would understand if you posted links to accounts that received exactly 100 Merit or exactly 250 Merit (not airdrop, but from other users), and then for a long time did not earn any 1 Merit. Perhaps it would be interesting...

No we don't need morer merit sources, we need better posters, and an easier way to find them. More merit sources is unlikely to increase the number of members receiving merits, but it could mean that the existing good posters receive more merits.

I'm having to make some broad brush decisions to reduce the time I spend looking for decent posts. For example, anyone who uses all capitals in a thread title goes straight on ignore, and the thread never gets opened again by me. It's a pretty general statement, but in my opinion, anyone who uses all capitals is juvenile, and is unlikely to have anything interesting to say.

I said several times that the merit system is a good idea but needs improvements.
Why i tracked only high members? because there were too many users with 10 of merit so i decided to only track 100 250 and 500.

I registrated like 2 weeks before the merit system, i didn't get merits because the majority of my posting are italian translations in the local section and there's simply no source in there.
i have no problem with those high ranked users that haven't earned merit. they are simply proof that is way to hard to get merit.

You seem to have got it all wrong. I've gone through all your list and all but one of the profiles got their Merit from the initial airdrop, according to their rank at the time.

The only exception is this profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1002351. He/she gained 150 sMerits in 3 TXs on the same date (09/02/2018). That’s the only profile that makes your case.

Edit: Ok, I understood from a post of your's in another thread what you ment: Those users have not gained any merit since the airdrop. There are tens of thousands of these cases, so why focus on a few ?

I simply opened the first thread in Bitcoin Discussion and tracked the perfect scores.
I'm not saying that they BOUGHT merit. i'm saying that most of the high ranked members in that thread didn't earn a single merit in 7 months. so there's a problem with the difficulty of earning merits.  






I'm not saying that they must have earned merits in that discussion. i'm saying that they didn't earn a single merit in all their post in 7 months.







I respect your opinion but i disagree. More merit sources will inevitably increase the merit distribution.
There's a ton of people complaining that they make quality post and not getting merit. there are even users that open threads just to share their merit with these people.







Because i wanted to make a small statistic on a random thread. i don't have time to track thousands of people  ;D
And that statistic confirmed that is very hard to earn merits even for high ranked users.

I've underlined the part of the statement that I agree with. The rest I don't agree with.

Show me the quality posts that deserve merit and didn't get it.

and meet my criteria:

I'm not a merit source but my meriting criteria is:

1) I avoid meriting posts that talk about merit (exceptions are occasionally made).
2) I check poster history for regular bounty or advertising shitposts. (Merit is to reduce low quality posts)
3) Is the post of sufficient quality to deserve merit ? Funny, unique, informative, helpful and well intended ? (not merit begging)

The people who want merit generally are the ones that shitpost in bounties.

It is not hard to earn merit. You only have to make a couple of good posts that keep on getting merit.

Satoshi is an example of where a user doesn't even have to log onto the forum for years and still get merit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topusersat

Wow, such analysis, much wow. I think it's shows that Merit system really works. You analysed one spammy thread. And these users got only airdroped Merits according to their rank, they didn't managed to earn any real Merits in 7 months. Why they didn't earned? Because they are making low quality posts  in spam megathreads. Why someone should Merit their posts? I would predict that mostly of these users still don't even know that Merit system exists because they haven't spent any of their sMerit. Shortly, these users not deserved to rank up. They didn't got Merit not because it's too difficult to earn it, they didn't got it because they are spammers.

Hello dear shiba  ;D
I didn't track their messages on other threads so i can't comment.
Please link me a better thread to analyze. Possibly with no more than 10 pages  ;D




Here(in the threads linked in) you can find some examples
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2832127.0

This is default merits given corresponding their rank. Not a lucky list, more like the wall of shame if the account is still active. How hard would be getting a single merit??

No. It is not the system that needs improvements, but it is the posts that are being made and are getting no Merits require improvements.
And, we don't need more Merit sources to solve that problem, but we need more quality posters to reduce the quantity of such Meritless accounts.
It is not only the sources who can give Merits to a post, but any regular user carrying sMerits can do that if the post he is looking at deserves that. So it is pointless to complain about less Merit sources just because useless posters are not getting Merits.

Merit System doesn't need any improvements, actually these accounts you've provided are perfect proof that the Merit System is working according to plan. They doesn't receive any Merits yet because they don't make any good and quality post/threads just like you IMHO. At first, I thought reading this thread is something that will catch my interest but reading furthermore, it's just a thread complaining about Merit, the difference is you've just added some information that will cover your real objective, and it is to complain.

I'm not underestimating users who can't receive Merits, because I still believe that by just improving themselves a little, they will surely start to gain Merits like other members. The only problem is they don't care about the quality of posts, so the Merit will still stay away from them.

How about lock this thread if you don't receive at least 2 Merits within 48 hours? :)
Wishing you luck to find someone who will be interested to help you complain about Merit System.

Everything can be improved.  I'm just showing facts and looking for improvements.  You can say that the current numbers are too small, but this is the reality of this forum.
I believe in decentralization, this forum is just the opposite. pretty sad oligarchy.

I don't want merit, i'm proud to be a Copper Member since day 1
I want more sources, especially for local sections. This user (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2928807.0) is correctly asking to be a french source and being ignored. is it right? its the merit system perfect??? i don't think so.


84 sources for 2 mln users is simply ridiculous. it's like 0.0042%... not even real society is that bad

Ofcourse you do need one mate, this is the only proof that you're not here to spam the entire forum unless it is that you've been doing.  It is a proof that you're quality poster.

And also you need one to rank up. Nobody here just want to be stuck with their ranks forever? If someone else does they're shitposters and in fact they will never rank up.

If they don't care about what're your posts, I think there will be somebody who will as long as you make constructive posts.

I want more sources, especially for local sections. This user (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2928807.0) is correctly asking to be a french source and being ignored since february . is it right? its the merit system perfect??? i don't think so.


84 sources for 2 mln users is simply ridiculous. it's like 0.0042%... not even real society is that bad

I don't know, just open another random thread from Bitcoin Discussion board and you will see much more users stuck with 10, 100, 250, 500 or 1000 airdroped merit. My point that's it not too difficult to earn Merit, they just haven't made Merit worthy posts.
This isn't completely correct. 1,4 of all users are Brand New accounts. It means that they haven't made even single post or their accounts were nuked. So, number of active Bitcointalk users is much smaller. But I would agree that there are not enough Merit sources. On the other hand, some of current Merit sources complaining that it's difficult to find Merit worthy posts and they are struggling to spend their monthly sMerit.

Dawg, I ain't perfect(also I think you mentioned me by mistake, cause I ain't no French man or woman), and theymos has trust issues when it comes to giving users some responsibility of helping the forum out. I do think we need more merit sources,but the current merit sources are awesome at doing what they do best. Foxpup and suchmoon are the most generous merit sources and they have spread their merits all across the boards. So just wait, theymos will do what would be the best for the forum.

No it's not, actually it's pretty Fair. You know why? Because out of those 2 million users, there is only about 5 to 10% (I guess) who are quality posters and deserves to get Merits. If it's too exaggerated, then make it 15% or whatever you like but my main point is, over 70% of users here in Bitcointalk doesn't deserve Merits as they only make post to earn money and those posts they make are totally trash. So what are you complaining about? Don't even say that Merit Sources are not doing their responsibility just because they only distribute merit to a few number of people because, can we blame them if they can't find many quality posters?

But, asides from that, It would be better if every local board has also having their own Merit Sources because it will be difficult for our sources to distribute Merits from a post/thread written in other languages. Even though our current Merits sources are enough, I still like @crwth to be a Merit source so that Tagalog posters from my local board will still be able to receive enough merits from their hard works. As well as to @bitmover and that French guy who were applying for Merit Source.

Agree, very apt and to the point.

But, I think theymos did appoint local merit sources too; cause I seem to remember a scandal of sorts involving a Japanese board merit source who people claimed wasn't a good one; but theymos had made him a merit source nonetheless to accommodate the local boards.

I don't agree with the first part, that we don't need more merit sources.  I think we do.  Even if the total amount of good posts remains the same, I think it might be taking a little too long for those good members to rank up.  More sources could alleviate some of that while still keeping the shitposters at Jr. Member for eternity.  I don't think having more merit sources would result in bad posts earning any merit, though I suppose that's possible--but that's why applications to be one should be vetted carefully.

Needing better posters is glaringly obvious to anyone who can read.  I do agree that there needs to be a better way of finding posts that need merits.  Some months ago, we had threads being made by members who had some merits to give out, asking people to "apply" for some merits.  Inevitably, all the shitposters on the forum would flock to those threads, and they became a mess.  Actmyname had such a thread going and he even said he'd give out neutral trust if shitposters wasted his time--and of course they didn't read that warning and did it anyway.

Even if we had a master thread where members could submit posts for merit, I'm sure there would be abuse with shitposters working really hard on one post, submitting it, and then continuing to put no effort whatsoever into their other posts.  I'm also sure that such a thread would become clogged with straight-up garbage as well.  Maybe a self-moderated thread by a merit source would work.  Whatever the solution is, we need to find it.  I think there are a lot of posts that should be merited but can't even be located.

I've just sent you my remaining one sMerit to give for quality posters. It's nice to know that even you had noticed that we still need more Merit Sources and I do agree with that as well. Actually, I have seen a lot of good posts lately but since I don't have enough merits to give, I just gave a few of them as I'm saving my sMerits for those members who will need it a lot (Although you didn't need my last Merit, I still gave it to you  :P). It only shows that sources are not enough and it is still difficult for them to locate those quality posts.
I also made a thread where I merit members who can provide helpful threads before but eventually I only Merited one member because all remaining posts provided by other users are totally not too helpful nor having any sense. I also participated in actmyname's  "14 Merits for quality posts" (can't remember the exact title of the threads) a couple of months ago and end up having a Neutral trust as I'm considered as a spammer. But fortunately, he removed it as I improved my posts quality :)

All I want to say is, giving sMerits for members who can provide quality posts aren't bad idea at all. So that, it won't be difficult for Merit Sources to look for good posts.

It will also be better if every local board has it's own trusted, reputable, and responsible Merit sources.
Those are the kind of users I encountered before in my thread. They will submit a "somehow good posts" and "somehow merit-able" but since the rest of their posts are totally trash, I ignored giving them any Smerits and leaving them good advice that they should improve their selves. They are only making a single thread where they can possibly receive Merits and then continue spamming again.

So you switched sides in 1 day after attacking me for saying the same thing? I guess you needed a Legendary member to say that uh?
You're a funny guy  ;D

OP, Its all well and good making a list like this, the reality is though its not going to change.

Like anything in life you have to be in the right place at the right time. These guys were here before you so thats just the way it is. We don't have to agree, but you have to be realistic and accept that they were here before you and before the rule change so if it was fair then, its fair now.

Nobody is keeping you here and nobody is stopping you from leaving.

The fact that you dont have any Merit tells its own story. You are here simply for money/bounties etc and dont want to participate until you want to moan about the system. Only one person can make a change and thats you.

Again...
I'm not complaining because those users were lucky enough to be here before me. I'm saying that there's a problem with sources and even a bigger one with local sources.
I'm in this forum to do translations and earn tokens.. so what? (also nice signature you have there) my tasks are even harder than posting shit around the forum to earn points. Doesn't matter how professional my translations are, i will NEVER receive merit because there are no sources.

And the funniest thing is that i want merit only to wear a goddamn avatar.  ;D

I can't believe that you didn't understand what I said. Well, let me explain it again.

First of all I didn't switched sides, like what I said in this post (I hope you didn't missed it)
I stated that we still need more merit sources for every local section. That's why I said this...
So there's no side switching happened. I suggest to add more sources since the beginning. Please read it several times.

Well about this one
I'm serious when I said this, what kind of improvements are you expecting from Merit System? Free Merits when you reached 224 Activity? Because in my opinion adding more Merit Sources is not something we can call "improvement of Merit System".

Anyway, you're lucky that you hesitated to accept my challenge :)

Aww, too bad for you. Looks like it will take a couple of months (or years?) before you wear an avatar for advertising. But it's still possible for you to get enough merit to rank up to Member just in one day, well it's either you buy Merits or beg for it  :D

Yeah sure, making some changes to a system in order to make it better can't be called "improvement". Sources are part of the system's workflow.

All i've been saying in this thread is that we need more sources, and you still talk about nonsense like "Free Merits when you reached 224 Activity".

Go find some other Legendary's ass to lick, you have done your job here.

And btw, the day i'll wear an avatar for extra small rewards( LIKE YOU  ;D ;D ) i will leave this forum.

Actually, I guess that your local board is the Italian board. If I’m right, the board does have a merit source (not too hard to find). Translations though I figure will go for the most unmerited if they are Ann/bounty related, but if you translate topics of interest to the generality of the local board, these may.

Even so, local boards are, for the most, boards that are rather scarce in terms of merit, where gaining a few if feasible, but opting to rank-up by solely posting on the local board may be extremely difficult.
For example, on the Italian board to date, a total of 46 forum users have been awarded 10 or more sMerits, but only 8 out of those have been awarded more that 50 sMerits in aggregate for posts on the local board (duesoldi, Speculatoross, gallisiardi, Ale88, coinlocket$, Micio, gbianchi and Piggy).

On my local board, Spanish, things are even worse: 38 users have been awarded more than 10 sMerit and only 5 have received more than 50 in aggregate there (I’m not amongst these 5).

Regardless of it all, this is an interesting discussion that has been approached on and off on Meta. It does differ though quite a bit from the thread title and OP, so the thread has taken quite a swing...

Very interesting data, thanks.

Maybe a solution could be to automatically make the top 3 users with most awards local sources

Automatism’s would not be adequate in any case, since merit sources need to be trusted and approved manually taking into account multiple factors and checking manually through their merit awarding history criteria is one of them. Aside from candidates that throw their candidacy into the ring through the official procedure, a factor to find merit sources could be what you say, but spinning it around. Rather than focus on which users received most, focus on users that award the most. More to the point, focus on those that awarded sMerit to a large network of people. That's to say, an objectively good candidate would be one that sends sMerit to many people (not one that receives a lot but does not send much, nor one that sends a lot but to only a few people(/alts)).

If you’re interested, we discussed this on Meta a couple of months ago in detail (see User's sMerit Network size – Data to select possible Merit Sources (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3873631.msg37479888#msg37479888)). The focus as I mentioned is on the sender’s network size.
Since the post is now two months old, you can see the current data for your local board on the   Merit Dashboard (https://public.tableau.com/profile/ddmrddmr#!/vizhome/BitcointalkMeritDashboard/GlobalSummary)), under the tab called "Potential Merit Sources". Simply filter by Subsection (mark only Italian for example) and you’ll see the list of potential candidates ordered by sender’s network size (current Merit Sources, if any, are probably on the list so they are not really candidates).

Finding a source is just one of the parts of the equation. It is just as hard to determine exactly where there is a lack of merit sources (there are some threads around on this matter too I believe).

Not a good idea. People with group of friends and has more alts can be awarded with your suggestion. Merit is already abused – please not the merit source team. The prevailing system on merit source application is working just fine, firm, and serving its purpose.