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Title: . Post by: bluespaceant on February 27, 2014, 10:14:03 PM .
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: byt411 on February 27, 2014, 10:20:43 PM For those who don't want to read the text:
1. Keep your bitcoins on your wallet, not a online one. 2. Preferably on a cold wallet. 3. Split the bitcoins into multiple wallets for more security if needed. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Lauda on February 27, 2014, 10:24:53 PM For those who don't want to read the text: Thank you. The post is rather useless, this has been said and posted thousands of times. Nobody listens to the first one.1. Keep your bitcoins on your wallet, not a online one. 2. Preferably on a cold wallet. 3. Split the bitcoins into multiple wallets for more security if needed. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: davidpbrown on February 27, 2014, 10:25:27 PM lol byt411. That's great. ;D
I'm sat here at the start of the 4h31m video of Andreas Antonopoulos et al (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mWkY5yIAnc); if you can do the same with that, I'll be very impressed. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: DanielVG on February 27, 2014, 10:25:32 PM lessons from Mtgox:
-There are more stupid people into BTC then i expected. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: C10H15N on February 27, 2014, 10:27:01 PM The problem with advice is: Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it.
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: davidpbrown on February 27, 2014, 10:29:09 PM In defence of long narrative statements, some people do learn only by seeing other people's experience. That is, not thinking ahead of time or noting people's advice.
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Lauda on February 27, 2014, 10:36:41 PM The problem with advice is: Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it. All Gox customers were fools. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: jesor on February 27, 2014, 10:40:54 PM At times like these in the BTC world I am gratefull for one thing:
I only bought and invested 1 BTC so I could trade altcoins, and already cashed that one back out (with many others). Would be nice if BTC hits 1000$ again some day, but if it hits 100$ I still made money out of nothing in my free time :] Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: CoinCidental on February 27, 2014, 10:43:50 PM At times like these in the BTC world I am gratefull for one thing: what do you mean by " if it hits 100 i still made money ? I only bought and invested 1 BTC so I could trade altcoins, and already cashed that one back out (with many others). Would be nice if BTC hits 1000$ again some day, but if it hits 100$ I still made money out of nothing in my free time :] have you checked the prices recently ? Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: C10H15N on February 27, 2014, 10:46:37 PM The problem with advice is: Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it. All Gox customers were fools. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: HorseCoin on February 27, 2014, 10:50:20 PM i'll just create a million wallets with 0.00001 in each of them
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: DarwinNexus on February 27, 2014, 11:04:52 PM I lost 50% of my net worth. At least, it is seeming that way. I am absolutely devastated. I am idiot for not pulling out earlier. I am an idiot for not diversifying my assets.
I am 34 and quite honestly, this is a hard pill to swallow at my age when I am trying to raise a family. At this point, I know my coins are gone. All I want is for Mark K. to feel justice and acknowledge what he has done to countless people. Hope this gets resolved sooner rather than later. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: smoothie on February 27, 2014, 11:08:34 PM If there more wise people using Bitcoin there would be much less of it for sale on the exchanges and the price would be far higher. Once people wise up this will occur. Or maybe the other way if price goes up due to difficulty jumps then people will not want to keep much Bitcoin on the exchanges if a Bitcoin is worth say $250,000 each.
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: yashin on February 27, 2014, 11:28:44 PM Never deposit or keep a significant portion of your bitcoin or fiat currency on an exchange unless you are OK with losing all of it. At some point, because of theft, seizure, or negligence on the part of the exchange, you may be faced with losing it all, and you will most likely be powerless to do anything about it. If you are using an exchange to store bitcoin, reconsider whether this is really necessary. Many people store bitcoin on exchanges so they are able to quickly sell if necessary. Most exchanges will give you access to bitcoin deposits with 6 confirmations. Keeping your bitcoin in external wallets and being willing to wait for an hour or so for 6 confirmations reduces the risk of storing bitcoin on an exchange where it can be stolen, seized, or lost. Why take the risk? Is one hour really too long for you to wait to sell your bitcoin? I would argue that it is worth waiting for 6 confirmations to have the peace of mind that your bitcoin is safe and secure outside of an exchange. As a side note, consider using multiple external wallets. Why put all your eggs in one basket? If you are storing 100 bitcoins, it is better to have 5 wallets with 20 bitcoins each than 1 wallet with 100 bitcoins. Depending on the amount of bitcoin you have, you may want to spread it out amongst even more wallets. You can make as many wallets as you need and it does not cost anything to do so—so take advantage of that feature to reduce the risk. Make backups of the wallets and store them in safe and secure places. If you are making trades in or out of bitcoin, divide your holdings and spread out your transactions so that you never have all of your bitcoin or fiat currency on a particular exchange at one time. For example, if you want to buy 100 bitcoins, deposit enough fiat currency to buy 20 bitcoins and wait until you have the 20 bitcoins that you purchased in an external wallet before depositing fiat currency again. If you do not have the bitcoin that you purchased in an external wallet that only you control, do not initiate another transaction. This takes longer, but it reduces risk of losing all 100 bitcoins at once or 100 % of the fiat currency you were planning to use to buy bitcoin. If you are selling 100 bitcoins, deposit and sell 20 at a time and wait until you receive the fiat currency payment before you deposit another 20 bitcoins to sell. This takes a lot longer, but it reduces the risk of losing 100% of the fiat currency or all 100 bitcoins at once. Before using an exchange, take some time to read about the exchange on these forums and then make a decision whether you are willing to risk losing bitcoin or fiat currency on that exchange. The exchanges that have serious problems often have multiple ongoing threads on this forum. Multiple threads about an exchange with unresolved issues should serve as a huge red flag. If those who lost bitcoin or fiat currency on MtGox had reviewed the numerous threads here about MtGox, it is unlikely they would have chosen to take the risk of using MtGox to buy, sell, or store bitcoin. If they had reviewed those threads and still decided that they were willing to take the risk, splitting up their transactions as noted above would have reduced their overall loss. TL;DR DO NOT leave what you can't afford to lose in ANY exchanges. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: gollum on February 27, 2014, 11:41:06 PM The situation would have been much different if the technology and usage of bitcoin had evolved and matured faster than the price of BTC/USD.
If the market cap of bitcoin was a few million dollars instead of billions, this mt gox failure wouldnt be such a big issue. We would say what the heck let it go bankrupt and nobody would care, not even politicians. So the lessen to learn: speculators should not invest too much money in a technology that is not mature, they should consider it as a pure gamble. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Kenshin on February 27, 2014, 11:46:43 PM Never deposit or keep a significant portion of your bitcoin or fiat currency on an exchange unless you are OK with losing all of it. At some point, because of theft, seizure, or negligence on the part of the exchange, you may be faced with losing it all, and you will most likely be powerless to do anything about it. I agreed with your lesson learn on this one. I will never do any crypto currency trading after my lesson with MtGox. Instead stick with fiat currency trading only, because there are many regulation in placed to keep trader safe. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: C10H15N on February 27, 2014, 11:50:35 PM Never deposit or keep a significant portion of your bitcoin or fiat currency on an exchange unless you are OK with losing all of it. At some point, because of theft, seizure, or negligence on the part of the exchange, you may be faced with losing it all, and you will most likely be powerless to do anything about it. I agreed with your lesson learn on this one. I will never do any crypto currency trading after my lesson with MtGox. Instead stick with fiat currency trading only, because there are many regulation in placed to keep trader safe. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Sniar on February 28, 2014, 12:01:27 AM Never deposit or keep a significant portion of your bitcoin or fiat currency on an exchange unless you are OK with losing all of it. At some point, because of theft, seizure, or negligence on the part of the exchange, you may be faced with losing it all, and you will most likely be powerless to do anything about it. If you are using an exchange to store bitcoin, reconsider whether this is really necessary. Many people store bitcoin on exchanges so they are able to quickly sell if necessary. Most exchanges will give you access to bitcoin deposits with 6 confirmations. Keeping your bitcoin in external wallets and being willing to wait for an hour or so for 6 confirmations reduces the risk of storing bitcoin on an exchange where it can be stolen, seized, or lost. Why take the risk? Is one hour really too long for you to wait to sell your bitcoin? I would argue that it is worth waiting for 6 confirmations to have the peace of mind that your bitcoin is safe and secure outside of an exchange. As a side note, consider using multiple external wallets. Why put all your eggs in one basket? If you are storing 100 bitcoins, it is better to have 5 wallets with 20 bitcoins each than 1 wallet with 100 bitcoins. Depending on the amount of bitcoin you have, you may want to spread it out amongst even more wallets. You can make as many wallets as you need and it does not cost anything to do so—so take advantage of that feature to reduce the risk. Make backups of the wallets and store them in safe and secure places. If you are making trades in or out of bitcoin, divide your holdings and spread out your transactions so that you never have all of your bitcoin or fiat currency on a particular exchange at one time. For example, if you want to buy 100 bitcoins, deposit enough fiat currency to buy 20 bitcoins and wait until you have the 20 bitcoins that you purchased in an external wallet before depositing fiat currency again. If you do not have the bitcoin that you purchased in an external wallet that only you control, do not initiate another transaction. This takes longer, but it reduces risk of losing all 100 bitcoins at once or 100 % of the fiat currency you were planning to use to buy bitcoin. If you are selling 100 bitcoins, deposit and sell 20 at a time and wait until you receive the fiat currency payment before you deposit another 20 bitcoins to sell. This takes a lot longer, but it reduces the risk of losing 100% of the fiat currency or all 100 bitcoins at once. Before using an exchange, take some time to read about the exchange on these forums and then make a decision whether you are willing to risk losing bitcoin or fiat currency on that exchange. The exchanges that have serious problems often have multiple ongoing threads on this forum. Multiple threads about an exchange with unresolved issues should serve as a huge red flag. If those who lost bitcoin or fiat currency on MtGox had reviewed the numerous threads here about MtGox, it is unlikely they would have chosen to take the risk of using MtGox to buy, sell, or store bitcoin. If they had reviewed those threads and still decided that they were willing to take the risk, splitting up their transactions as noted above would have reduced their overall loss. Always keep your money in offline wallet Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Skoupi on February 28, 2014, 12:05:03 AM Or you can think of it otherwise.
You don't own any bitcoins unless they are in an address of which you own solely the private key. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Holliday on February 28, 2014, 12:21:51 AM If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
Keep spreading the word! Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: gollum on February 28, 2014, 01:48:58 PM If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins. But what's the point of using bitcoin if you can't trust any exchange or wallet service?Keep spreading the word! Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: kneim on February 28, 2014, 02:13:16 PM If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins. But what's the point of using bitcoin if you can't trust any exchange or wallet service?Keep spreading the word! Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Beef Supreme on February 28, 2014, 03:23:10 PM If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins. But what's the point of using bitcoin if you can't trust any exchange or wallet service?Keep spreading the word! HELLO??? Don't you people realize that people sent GOX loads of money only when the price dropped like a rock, trying to buy cheap coins? It was a calculated risk to triple or quadruple bitcoin holdings. Only Gox was in deep doodoo, DECEIVING people by not halting assets coming in also. That is criminal, intentional deception to gain assets. I got a whole chain from BRENDAN at Gox's customer service to prove it. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: justusranvier on February 28, 2014, 03:28:35 PM But what's the point of using bitcoin if you can't trust any exchange or wallet service? The point is that you don't need to use them."Be your own bank" Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: gollum on February 28, 2014, 03:32:53 PM Yeah right, tell your grandma to use bitcoin client or use paper wallets...
bitcoin will remain a geek speculation as long as we don't have trustworthy bitcoin banks. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: kneim on February 28, 2014, 03:33:09 PM HELLO??? Don't you people realize that people sent GOX loads of money only when the price dropped like a rock, trying to buy cheap coins? It was a calculated risk to triple or quadruple bitcoin holdings. That's simply worse than gambling, as it was an incalculable risk.Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: kneim on February 28, 2014, 03:35:11 PM Yeah right, tell your grandma to use bitcoin client or use paper wallets... I believe a wallet like multibit is already usable by my grandma.bitcoin will remain a geek speculation as long as we don't have trustworthy bitcoin banks. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Beef Supreme on February 28, 2014, 03:36:22 PM HELLO??? Don't you people realize that people sent GOX loads of money only when the price dropped like a rock, trying to buy cheap coins? It was a calculated risk to triple or quadruple bitcoin holdings. That's simply worse than gambling, as it was an incalculable risk.Yeah, its called going ALL IN on the RIVER. Except, it wasn't the card needed to win a big pot, it was a frickin deuce. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: justusranvier on February 28, 2014, 03:39:21 PM Yeah right, tell your grandma to use bitcoin client or use paper wallets... It's 1994 and you're whining that the Internet will never go anywhere because it's too complicated for Grandma to install Winsock and mess with AT commands.bitcoin will remain a geek speculation as long as we don't have trustworthy bitcoin banks. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: C10H15N on February 28, 2014, 03:45:55 PM It's 1994 and you're whining that the Internet will never go anywhere because it's too complicated for Grandma to install Winsock and mess with AT commands. You just lost 90% of the people here ;D Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: evansearle42 on February 28, 2014, 03:47:10 PM For those who don't want to read the text: Thank you. The post is rather useless, this has been said and posted thousands of times. Nobody listens to the first one.1. Keep your bitcoins on your wallet, not a online one. 2. Preferably on a cold wallet. 3. Split the bitcoins into multiple wallets for more security if needed. even keeping in ur wallet is dangerous Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: justusranvier on February 28, 2014, 04:11:50 PM It's 1994 and you're whining that the Internet will never go anywhere because it's too complicated for Grandma to install Winsock and mess with AT commands. You just lost 90% of the people here ;D Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: go4nature on February 28, 2014, 04:20:29 PM Keeping bitcoin in cold storage is the best option. If you want to cashout do it slowly like 5% per day. NEver trust anyone.
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Timo Y on February 28, 2014, 05:36:57 PM I agree with everything you say except for one thing:
These are not lessons from the mtgox collapse. They are lessons from the mybitcoin and bitomat collapses (and others) more than 2 years ago. In fact, the are lessons from basic common sense. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: kneim on February 28, 2014, 06:07:43 PM I agree with everything you say except for one thing: More transparency would be appreciated. Regularly auditing customer assets, for example. But because of human deficiency, this is a disadvantage to the trading platform, as vircurex is showing as an example. This is a not solvable intrinsic problem, that will repeat in the future. This is also an example, why regulation can be necessary.These are not lessons from the mtgox collapse. They are lessons from the mybitcoin and bitomat collapses (and others) more than 2 years ago. In fact, the are lessons from basic common sense. Without regulation, the damage can only be limited, if trading platforms keep small and distributed. Or if humans react more reasonable on honest platform information. So withdraw all unnecessary money from platforms, for they crash sooner than later. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Flunder707 on February 28, 2014, 06:46:32 PM Don't put all your eggs in one basket?
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: HeliKopterBen on February 28, 2014, 06:47:53 PM If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins. Keep spreading the word! Quoted to spread the word. Holiday has been saying this for a long time now. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: coins101 on February 28, 2014, 10:20:41 PM proper regulated exchanges should use client accounts which are kept safe from their day-to-day expense accounts.
Any collapse and client money is kept safe and it still belongs to you. administrators called in to run exchanges that go bankrupt can't touch it. we should demand exchanges use off-line client accounts. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: LiteCoinGuy on March 01, 2014, 12:51:38 AM keep most of your coins on an online wallets with no 2 factor and crappy password.
sent money to an insolvent exchange to get some cheap coins. never install or update your antivirus and download crappy stuff like dogecoin. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Xubu on March 01, 2014, 01:39:32 AM I you wanna trade, you have to use an exchange. So it could happen to any of us. Imagine you had all your BTC on Gox? I would drive crazy. I saw some members of the community organized an action to support the Mt. Gox victims. http://www.solidarity4mtgoxvictims.com:800/
When i trade i use BTC-e.com. Do you guys think this exchange is safer? Thanks Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: dynodog on March 01, 2014, 04:34:34 AM For those who don't want to read the text: 1. Keep your bitcoins on your wallet, not a online one. 2. Preferably on a cold wallet. 3. Split the bitcoins into multiple wallets for more security if needed. the lesson will be that the general public won't get into something when these two elements are met (1) they don't understand it and (2) now realize that there is a distinct chance of losing their money, not bc of the volatility, but by a theft, fraud and/or negligence which they do not understand either. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Nathonas on March 01, 2014, 04:49:52 AM So in other words, do all the same things that people have been telling you to do countless times now. I only got into bitcoin in Nov. of last year but I made 100% sure to reduce any chances of losing my bitcoins BEFORE I made my purchase. I learned about wallets, exchanges, etc. It sucks but the people who lost the most from this were willfully ignorant of the knowledge.
Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: Beef Supreme on March 01, 2014, 05:02:43 AM Agreed. Even after the theft, within one minute of talking to someone about what happened at Gox I can gauge how much they know about BTC the protocol.
1. They mispronounce it BIT CON, not to be sarcastic either. 2. They say "Its too bad those bitcoins didn't work." What? 3. They refer to BTC as "Something drug cartels came up with to facilitate drug deals and launder money." When Tulips come up I feel like wringing someone's stupid, ignorant neck, really. And the concept of "buying power" and how it relates to deflationary vs inflationary currency is just straight up too difficult for some people to comprehend. Title: Re: Lessons from MtGox collapse Post by: justusranvier on March 01, 2014, 05:12:29 AM Agreed. Even after the theft, within one minute of talking to someone about what happened at Gox I can gauge how much they know about BTC the protocol. This is all very good.1. They mispronounce it BIT CON, not to be sarcastic either. 2. They say "Its too bad those bitcoins didn't work." What? 3. They refer to BTC as "Something drug cartels came up with to facilitate drug deals and launder money." When Tulips come up I feel like wringing someone's stupid, ignorant neck, really. And the concept of "buying power" and how it relates to deflationary vs inflationary currency is just straight up too difficult for some people to comprehend. The world will be a better place the fewer Bitcoins people like that end up holding. The future does not belong to them. |