Bitcoin Forum

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Who would have guessed it? (/sarcasm)

Of course, no one but deluded noobs think that the SEC is going to pass an ETF, if not ever, at least any time soon.

The reason they allowed Futures is because with Futures they can apply a strong bearish manipulation on the market. They will not allow an ETF until they have kicked out 100% of noobs out of the market, and once they have more BTC in their hands than the rest of the world, they will allow an ETF.

BTC is going to $100,000+ with or without ETF, but without an ETF it will be slower and TPTB continues amassing BTC by extending the bear period. The only reason all these phantom derivative scams are allowed is for them to manipulate prices in their favor.

Fuck yeah!

satoshi listened to my prayers?


I wouldn't be so sure on that, bitcoin is supposed to be a currency, and if one bitcoin is worth like 100 $, then its not a good factor, it maybe good in terms of how it looks, but in terms of long term usability, its not.

I told ya guys the SEC won't approve it, a lot of members were saying "this time is different" "for sure it will be approved", etc...
I hope to see them commenting on this topic to see what they have to say now :D
Now I am interested to see how the market will react to this news in the next following days...

This is a bad news. The ETF would be a strong driver for BTC growing. :(

Now I am looking at the crypto exchange markets. The price of Bitcoin is decreasing to $6300 (-2%). I guess this is just a beginning of the next dump. :-[

I suppose that the dominance of Bitcoin will be reduced again to 45% and the altcoins will recover a little bit in the near future.

This isn't the first time they are using these cliche statements.

Are you kidding? This is GOOD news. ETF won't make bitcoin grow, they aren't even directly related.

Yeah, because dumbfucks can't really understand what an ETF is. This is one of the downside of crypto, something which isn't even directly related, nor necessary, nor being relevant is causing bitcoin's price to go down. How ironic?

Who cares? There's no real use in bitcoin dominance or the entire market cap actually, its just a stupid stat. People just use those in their arguments to prove a point.

I like this topic, will stick around to it. 

Wow everyone called it.  Nice one guys.  It seems like they are holding this not only to manipulate so they can enter but so they can get all their regulations in place so they can control the entire thing. 

I agree with you and bitcoin etf will be approved. It's imminent and inevitable.

This will make a lot of nerds rich..

However, it always feels so strange all ETF fever in the bitcoin community.
Bitcoin community always talked about how banks and the financial system was a scam, a global Ponzi scheme, whatever... Now everyone wants bitcoin to join that, so they can buy some lambos.

Anyway, this is also going to be good for bitcoin. This is the only way to mass adoption, I my opinion

Last year ETF got rejected too but the price of Bitcoin went on and made a huge growth despite the rejection from the SEC. There's still next year  ;)

This dump should be temporary though it's not the end of the world for Bitcoin. The worst price I expect after the rejection is $5900 we'll see if Bitcoin could hold or not.

I wasn't surprised. And I would advice these ETF promoters to move to some stock exchange markets in Japan or Germany instead. The SEC guys in the United States are retarded to say the least. They are still living in the stone age and they seems to be having an aversion to modern technology.

I think it is too soon for approving bitcoin ETFs.It would have paved way for too much speculation and manipulation price.I think it is not the end and SEC will be discussing and consulting on a way forward  and hope SEC can frame regulations and allow bitcoin ETFs with some strict guidelines .

This is not something crazy that can damage what Bitcoin has achieved, cases like this have become annual consumption for cryptocurrency users who have long been involved, but this is not ready for most new people and they are often surprised by decisions beyond their expectations. I only suggest using cryptocurrency as usual not affected by mass news that is often annoying and some cunning people want to manipulate prices, just imagine that this is not something bad but this is something extraordinary we can still have Bitcoin without interference from others and maybe people try to hold back and increase their value again.

it seems like I have to be careful with this, and after I hear this news, I become lazy to trade again, I don't like playing, it's not pure

LMAO. SEC is playing with our emotions  ;D


Do you really think that ETF's will make you rich? LOL. Why are you afraid about bitcoin's dominance? You saying that altcoins will be pump as a result of another ETF rejection?

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Its no surprised that SEC rejected it and I don't think that we can see any approval in the near future. Market is really prone to manipulation and we can't deny that. If the market drops so be it, but I doubt that it can't recover. Bitcoin is very resilience and at this stage i don't think that something much worst can happen. So let's see how it goes in the next couple of days.  :)

Yep, all of those weak handed people will cry after it will happen, and those who strongly held everything will be rewarded in the end. But I really also hope that it will happen not any time soon because I need to accumulate more before that happens.

I don't expect it to get approved in the first place so this kind of news won't surprise me. Bitcoin will be fine without etf although the growth will be slower but it will be a great store of value and in the future a lot of people will use crypto. It's so strange to see a lot of people here expecting the etf to be approved, crypto is the future and they are just delaying the inevitable.

Honestly, we don't need this stupid ETF. Bitcoin hit 20k last year without an ETF.  All we need is mainstream adoption and the support of the people.

ETF rejection right now is the best thing that can happen.

If an ETF ever gets approved (which im sure it will at some point) it would be much better at the end of 2019, the earliest.

It was interesting however, that the news of the rejection has done little to hinder the price, it would seem past rejections caused quite a stir but already, ETF rejection is the norm in Bitcoin.

Lol bitcoin. Price drops and grow this whole year so whats the matter on decreasing by 2% when it goes by double the next day

And beginning of the next dump is a damn idea,bitcoin will grow with or without ETF so i don't know whatsthe big issie about this one.lols

BTC being worth 100k or more wouldn't be a problem and it wouldn't stop btc from actually being a currency, we have decimals to take care of that.

Bitcoin futures don't affect bitcoin prices much (don't make an error of confusing cause and effect here) as these futures are cash-settled only and no real Bitcoin is involved in the process of settling at expiry. So what makes you think that allowing Bitcoin ETFs would be a game changer for the cryptoworld? Okay, let assume that these ETFs are allowed finally, and so what? Just letting major investors ("big fish" like pension funds) to enter this market "officially" doesn't mean that they will actually do so. Apart from that, no one can prevent private investors of any caliber (think Soros or Buffett here) invest in crypto but I haven't heard a good thing from them about Bitcoin and the company it keeps.

And it did not really affect the price. I do not think that if it was approved alone would have brought mecca to the market.

I think it is the time we should stop talking about the SEC, because I am very "SICK" to read about them. Its been long time since when these absurd are just playing stuff around and thinking that they are going to put big ban on the crypto currency. I am now sure that they dont want to see the growth of the ban and they have already done the hand shake with government and signed contract to reject all the decisions further, and take down the crypto by creating distress news among the people. You see where I am going with this  ::)

News that never ends, I am confused about this, is it true that etf affects the price of bitcoin until it falls and continues to fall, can anyone help me to convince it? I just think this is market manipulation.

I'm afraid this is not how things would work in reality. Actually being a currency means you can buy things with it, it has little to do with the number of decimal places. And right now there are big issues in this department. I remember people were telling that the activation of Lightning Network would help adoption. I don't know whether LN has been activated in the mainnet by now, but the number of people who fall for this cause and effect confusion seems to have diminished dramatically lately.

In this case, the problem with high prices is that people will be hoarding an ever-appreciating asset. There is no reason for them to spend it. There is ever-depreciating fiat for that. So it can be said that high price is not very good for a currency if we expect it to be used as such.

not necessarily. you can only push the price down for so long before it blows up in your face. we have seen this many times before. and with ETF bitcoin may not go up as fast as you'd expect because it still isn't bringing money into bitcoin and we need people who buy bitcoin for it to go up in price.

ETF was rejected, But in today's prices are still not falling too much. ETF does not affect the market too much as I think. And I hope the market will rise without the ETF like 2017

Lightning Network has been operative for what's now months, probably 6 months now? I lost count. There are a lot of nodes already, and thousands of channels, see here:

https://rompert.com/recksplorer/

This map shows the amount of nodes and connections between each other (channel) and the total amount of money on the network now past half a million USD. It's just the beginning.

Once people realize you can do business with this it will explode in use. Of course for now it's being developed.

Of course, the best use case for Bitcoin remains a store of value to protect against all inflation. It will go up with or without LN adoption, with or without ETFs.. and so on.

And that is one of the worst ones for any investor to use.  Usually that's a big red flag that a bubble is about to happen.  That's not the case here, but it is still one of the most ignorant things they could say.

I did not expect the ETF to pass, but I also don't believe it was critical that it did.  Bitcoin is robust enough that it can thrive without any attachment to the stock market or any kind of derivative.  The only thing an ETF would do would be to make it more convenient for whales to speculate in btc without having to buy it and keep it in a wallet.

When the decision was delayed not too long ago, it seemed like the price dropped a lot afterward.  I don't know that the delay was causal but the timing would suggest that it was.  After the rejection I think people were expecting it, and if they were insiders they would have known ahead of time.  Either way, this is not earth shattering news.  In 2050 we'll still be talking about people trying to get an etf approved and it still won't be too important.

Lol everyone knows that the SEC has no plans of accepting any ETFs now or even in the future; it's just another form of hype building and perhaps a collaboration between the rich investors involved in bitcoin and the ones in the SEC. They make it look like the ETFs are being approved this time but lo and behold, they haven't really talked about it and considered it one bit. People will just anticipate for ETFs and those who know what's going to happen will be the ones making a buck out of these hypes.

It would be great if the community starts to shift their attention towards the fundamentals of bitcoin with which we are lagging behind. Perhaps it's about time to make bitcoin really accessible for most people who needs it and who can really benefit from it.

Yes everyone expect this etf will got rejected. Many regulations coming and many compliance exchange also coming from different continent. This will really help cryptocurrency and ETF is for sure will be real eventually, the truth is i do still doubt that vaneck and solidx etf will be approved. But i do hope it will be approved.

Mind explaining how exactly we can make Bitcoin more accessible to the people you're referring to? It's not that there is much that we can do other than just helping those around us by providing them useful information.

I am of believe that people who really want to know more about Bitcoin's fundamentals will look up everything themselves. They also do it when it comes to its speculative side, so it's not that they don't know where to go.

If people are too caught up in getting rich with crypto currencies there isn't much that we can do. Everything you advise them to do or not to do will be disregarded because they simply are here for profits only.

Well, that seems to be off-topic here but since you are OP and seem to be interested in this thing, I expand my thought a little. I for one don't expect Bitcoin adoption to explode just because LN has been activated. If it were the case, Bitcoin would have long been substituted by faster coins, which is obviously not the case. Let's recall that LN had been activated in Litecoin over a year ago, for example, but did this increase its adoption? The news greatly contributed to Litecoin's exponential growth in price, that goes without saying (I've been there), but did it actually increase its real use? I think the answer is negative. The same with Bitcoin. Of course, if there is real, explosive demand for Bitcoin as a means of payment, LN will come in quite handy, but we can't say that LN is actually going to contribute to this demand on its own in the first place.

Well, "once people realize" includes many things.

I didn't say I expect it to happen any time soon, even if it's out. First of all, it's still in the very early versions, devs are advising against doing any transaction that you cannot afford to lose because the risk is still there.

What will trigger goods and services being traded for Bitcoin (via LN) is when governments completely ban cash, so people that are basically able to subsist and have a decent life quality by working under the radar, will look for an alternative and LN will be the most viable one.

Accepting anything else but Bitcoin will not be sound, because the underlying networks will be weak and the token will have no liquidity compared to BTC. These things take time. BTC first needs to reach 1 $trillion marketcap to start scaring all the goldbugs and co and snowball effect will kick in.

It is not like I'm somehow opposed to your view. In fact, I support it fully. LN seems to effectively and efficiently solve the issue of scalability, even though some may rightfully claim that with it we are back to square one, that is, back to centralization through LN hubs, which would be blockchain banks just like our regular fiat banks are today. But that's not my point. What you say can happen but it can't happen due to or because of LN. All these good things you mentioned might not happen if there is no LN but it doesn't mean that LN is the cause of or the primary driver behind them.

It is basically the same old cart-before-the-horse problem in new clothing.

The emergence of other currencies also depends on its ability. It may not affect the market either. If the community is low and no use for life. Even this ETF is not excluded. That is the obvious of the electronic market.

People should simply not allow themselves to be tricked by the ETF rejection. Those who are trying to manipulate the market in their favour shouldn't be given the chance to actualise their goal.

The market has already reacted - nobody is interested in investment right now and everybody is waiting for the miracle.
I also felt quite positive about ETF hoping for the recovery of the market, but it seems we all will have to wait for more time.

Sure LN brings some risks of centralization and it's far from ideal, but then what are the alternatives? there isn't a single altcoin that can scale for mainstream transactions on-chain without fatal consequences at layer 0. So what we have is building on top of a decentralized network.

LN will be better than the current bank system because LN will not magically raise the limit of the underlying token in which it is functioning (21 million coins) as opposed to fiat banking. Some have questioned this and claimed fractional reserve is possible, we'll have to see.

Anyway, LN and ETF, these things are optional. Who am I to stop people from using ETF or LN, people will have to assume the risks and rewards and do what's best for them.

For now, I don't see why I would use BTC to do groceries when I have fiat. But when fiat blows up it would be good to have something ready by then if BTC wants to replace fiat too. The question is: Can BTC be both digital gold and digital day-to-day cash?

I have been thinking something similar for some time, all of those that thought that there was a good chance the ETF was going to be approved because there were many people pushing for it do not really know what this is about, powerful people are understanding that there is no way to kill this market, so they are taking a new stance, if you can't beat them, join them, and as such they are suppressing the price of bitcoin for as long as they can so they can get in this market while it is still cheap.

ETF is not important so much. We dont need it. Bitcoin was created to not comply with the legacy system, and as such can stand without the parts of broken economy. We will see bitcoin stronger and stronger

I don't think it can be. And we don't actually need to live up to that to find out. The very existence of altcoins reveals that we won't have to. I'm not going to say that altcoins were created specifically to be more like a regular currency unlike Bitcoin which came to be kind of digital gold, but this is how things turned out. So if fiat blows up one day, Bitcoin will most likely remain a store of value while some altcoin or a group of them will be used for regular transactions and payments like groceries.

In fact, the functions you mentioned (store of value and means of payment) are mutually exclusive to a great degree. That's why fiat is not good as a store of value since this function is sacrificed in favor of its currency aspect.

That is a bad news ,hope Btc regain strength on its own.

With or Without ETF the market could be manipulated and it was already manipulated many times since before this ETF events arrives. Even they rejected the ETF still they cannot stop the market manipulation and it will going happen as long as the big whales are existing therefore lets wait and see of what will happen in the coming days.

The holy grail would be to be both a store of value and a viable currency, but so far it seems like it's impossible, I mean second layers are a decent effort but you are giving away too much decentralization as I understand it.

Gold can be bought and stored for the average individual, whereas if what some predict is true, it will be impossible for the average joe to do that with bitcoin. Of course big sized transactions will be cheaper in bitcoin compared to moving tons of gold, but for the average guy wanting to save his 50k savings, for less than 1.5 kg at current prices you can move it. So at some point getting 1.5 kg of gold delivered in your house will be cheaper than the transaction of 50k in BTC.

As far as alts as cash goes, im not really sure if they are any better than LN. If alts were to be used at scale, they would end up with massive problems which LN already are catering for.

It seems that the SEC is one of the levers of manipulating the price of bitcoin. It seems to me that as soon as the right people will buy out the required amount of BTC at the desired price, then the SEC will accept the ETF and the price will begin to grow.

Funny how others react. It is way far from this.

They think it is always the end once the bitcoin price is in bear market.
There will always be a chance. The problem is they dont see it for now. As for now it could go way back and forth but the real truth will be in the future.

Bitcoin will be used much and they still do not see it.

Not that bad, the most important ETF is still being reviewed. The SEC is heavily influenced by bankers and I believe somebody is lobbying for them to take their time and delay as much as possible to prolong the bear market. This is a great moment for everyone with a lot of money to board the train and you won't even notice.
They know that ETFs and everything else will be approved sooner or later. It's as certain as the fact that we will have another rally. It may be in a year, it may be in 2 years, but it will happen.

They will say I knew it and I told you that boyz

I don't see why the price should rise or drop especially for an expected event.

If I get it correct, now we can anticipate even deeper sinking to the bottom of our dreams and plans, lol. But it gets me interested in the future!

SEC staff have delegated authority to make a decision on such applications, meaning the commissioners and the SEC chairman have the power to review the decision if they desire.

This is a stupid perspective and it's clear you didn't read the SEC's rationale. The SEC gives zero fucks about whether or not Bitcoin is an investment or how many noobs are invested in it. The SEC is tasked with enforcing the securities laws Congress enacts. Their rejection is predicated solely on fact that the requested rule change was inconsistent with current securities laws. The conspiracy theories about not approving an ETF until they get enough BTC for themselves is stupid and meritless. Further, the futures that have been approved don't have a direct impact on price because they're not settled in BTC, they're settled in cash. You can short the futures to zero and it won't impact the price of BTC, so the market manipulation claim is also garbage.

In short, you haven't got the slightest clue what you're talking about and you're an embarassment to people actually working in this space to make BTC viable.

Some people were somehow aware from the start that the ETF was going to be rejected and as such were not surprised by the SEC's decision. Life goes on.

It's really saddening tho.. We've  been waiting for this for long.

Yeah, it's impossible unless the whole paradigm shifts, and money then is very different from what it is now.


It is a whole lot easier to ban gold (and actually enforce this ban) than to ban crypto. See, it is not just about declaring Bitcoin illegal, it is real actions that could and should be taken to punish its possession. And that would be a big pain in the ass. On the other hand, possession of physical gold can be prohibited, and the ban can be enforced in real life. In fact, it has already been done in one big country once upon a time, so there's no reason to think that it can't be done again, this time globally.


There are other similar technologies that many altcoins boast. And Litecoin has LN already activated (though not used).

I would have loved the SEC to approve the ETF although I have the feelings that it is a distraction. I wanted it because it would have expanded the reach of cryptocurrency to more people. I saw it as a distraction because I know it is not compatible with the decentralized nature of blockchain.

True.
So why let it happen.
Actually I am kinda of happy with the decision.
Dont want it ending up into just another currency being eaten by sharks and whales. It is suppose to be a free currency. For usage of everyone and not just jn power.

With this ETF I dont see that happening anymore.
To reach other people? Or USA?

I am believe bitcoin will survive and reach high price without ETF. I think ETF is not everything for bitcoin, because in 2017 without ETF, bitcoin can reach $19k and market cap increasing more than 1000% just one year.

As ETF is rejected there are no more drivers which might boost market.  SEC has rejected ETF without any compromises it is a very negative signal for everybody and, of course it means that while fonds will not invest in bitcoit and altcoins. Unfortunately such SEC's decision has compromised not only bitcoin but the entire crypto market. This decesion allows SEC to keep in check the crypto market. So, lots investors are disappointed of such a decision and I am sure that the crypto market is not so attractive for investing so potential investors will hold their money elsewhere but not in bitcoins. Likewise many disappointed investors I also have suspended my investing in crypto assets because I am exhausted of the downtrend in ethereum and lack of potential in bitcoin. Unfortunately I am sure that this situation will not be boosted in this year substantially. I think right now  it is a good time to pay attention on other assets like gold because namely gold is quite attractive assets in the current moment.

Bitcoin is going up after the obligatory "ETF rejected" dip. Many noobs got owned thinking it was going to drop to 4000 overnight. Not a short squeeze typically but over the past few hours slowly many short positions got owned as we are going near $7000.

ETF being rejected was already priced in by anyone with a functional brain so this is not much of a surprise. It is true tho that many potential investors are waiting for the ETF but anyone that's realistic knows it's not coming this year, we'll see in 2019. But once again, ETF doesn't make or break Bitcoin, it just pumps the price.

On 22 of August SEC completely rejected inquiries from three companies to approve Bitcoin-based ETFs. However after a while SEC stated that all the inquiries will be reviewed. The situation with ETFs is not over yet. Some sources claim that the ETF debate will be renewed in Feb 2019. I would wait a bit and follow the news to see if the ETFs status will be rediscussed.

Let's get over with this whole ETF's claims. I agree it will not make a significant dent on the price because it has no effect long term. It will just make a small bump and that's it, market is bad as normal.

Speculators are showing witted intelligence, and I'm sure that they are not disappointed by this rejection. As for me, I'm not really paying attention that much about ETF's anymore. Will make my positions whichever the market will offer me.

Yes the ETF was rejected. But it seems the SEC wants to review their decision on it. Let us see how events play out between now and the end of September. The decision may be reversed.

bitcoin etf was rejected more than 30 times from last year. recent they reject 9 Etf. Its will be great news if Etf accepted. but investors are ready with Money if etf rejects . slight dump and up again. If bitcoin etf Aproved then its shocking news for all btc market as well as media...

have you read why sec rejects bitcoin etf?

This ETF issue getting bigger and bigger. I think ETF will not make a contribution to Bitcoin's future. On the contrary, it can even suffer long-term damage. The important thing is that Bitcoin is very dependent on such news. It is not good.

Does anyone really give a fuck about this ETF issue anymore? I remember when the proposal was rejected for the first time (it was in January-February, 2017 if I'm not mistaken), Bitcoin crashed like 20% from 1200 down to ~900 dollars within a few days (though there were a few other factors at play back then). We all very well know what happened next. So I don't really think market is set to react somehow on the rejection since this is what everyone expected anyway. I wouldn't even call that pricing in simply because nothing has changed to be priced in.

On the other hand though, if such an ETF was approved all of a sudden, despite all odds, that would be a damn breaking news, and we would see prices go exponential faster than greased lightning.

I sure don't give a fuck and the market seems to be getting more immune. The first rejections caused huge dumps but the recent ones ended up in a short rally instead of a drop. I think it's good that more people realize we don't need and ETF to exist. Bitcoin is here since 2009 and went from a few dollars to 20000 without ETF.
It will rally again with or without it, but I still think that we will have it approved next year.

If there is bad news from the market already. It is difficult to take on the role of going in this market. Need advice from experts.

ETF was rejected. But apparently I heard that SEC has reconsidered. Maybe you're right. The SEC only really accepts when 100% of the noob leaves and grabs a large amount of btc in hand. It's too early for approval. Approval is just late.
Btc can increase to 100,000 + in the future. But the market must be controlled, but the current price increase or decrease is too risky if the SEC accept the ETF.

It's no surprise.  They are going to delay this thing and manipulate prices for as long as they can.  Once they get the ETF the cheating will really begin.  Wait till there are 100 million paper claims to 16 million Bitcoins.  Then watch that work totally fine for decades.  This is the silver market today. 

but now day, after they reject etf approval market doesnt effected.investor now consious etf rejection only an action to make cryptocurrency market become weak.and we show a proff that community solid right now.

I do expect it would turn out to be rejected and for vaneck it would be another delay for approval. With bakkt that will be launch in november, it would increasing the chance for etf to be accepted in Febuary 2019. I do think our last chance to see etf get approved in on Febuary and bitcoin will be big after that.

We do not need it that is correct but at the same time people are so desperate about the state of the market and the low price that it shows that they are willing to do anything to try to push the price up, and a way to do that is for the ETF to be approved, that is why you are seeing so many people pushing for it even if it doesn't make a lot of sense when we take into account the philosophy of bitcoin, but at the end it doesn't matter since the price will recover by itself like it always does.

Actually, it is not decided even with respect to the first rejections (or just the very first one). I remember when Bitcoin crashed soon after the news about the rejection hit the tabloids (as I pointed out in my post), but it happened at almost the same time as the Chinese central bank ordered local exchanges to halt both cryptocurrency deposits and withdrawals. So it is hard to say what was the actual cause of the crash back then.

Anyone want to chime in on this?

The rejection of ETF application for Bitcoin has not had any bad influence on the market. The prices as of today are even better than 2 weeks ago.

This price symptoms will boom the marketplace worth of the coins well. So far we are looking to see the price bump and it is happening now so we do not need ETF effect at all but still there is another application with the SEC.  So ETF will be accpeted this time that is my expectation too mate.
If you wish to invest on the good project then plan at this time soon and make your investment accordingly.

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There are many issues confronting the acceptance of bitcoin ETF at the moment. Although there  are various reasons for the down falls in the price of the various Cryptos. I believe the whole issue on the bitcoin ETF agreement could be part.

People were not just used on hearing news till now that it didn't bother to effect the market, what we are all still waiting is some good news to recover since were able to be patiently holding till it recovers.

patience is most important to get maximum results, I think good news will affect that. with the delay of etf certainly makes us have to be more patient to wait for the bullrun to occur, and don't despair

First of all I know there will be some thing happening in here and the SEC is heavily influenced by bankers and I believe somebody is lobbying for them to take their time and delay as much as possible to prolong the bear market well this is a great moment for everyone with a lot of money to board the train and go with the flow.

They dont need any excuses to reject the ETF.   If they do allow the ETF it gives access to normal investors and they believe Bitcoin is too volatile, with exchanges unknown determining price which may or may not be valid.   Me personally I dont think any of the plain holdings for BTC ETF is going to happen, its only going to have a chance relying on the futures market for BTC coming from Chicago

There definitely is lots of ETF that hold contracts for commodities not the actual underlying markets like corn, wheat, flour or soy beans.  Whatever resource they almost always are holding those things via a secondary market like Chicago maintains with some regulation coming from there

Also I should add I have been refused ETF that holds futures contracts by some brokers,  so the ETF had some warnings even then.

EETF will be decided on 29th December this year (before the year ends) and most probably markets will not react to it until 2nd of january, maybe even later. Hence there is no rush to get bitcoin accepted right now, ETF can wait, we have much bigger problems at hand right now than focusing on ETF.

We need to figure out how to rebalance bitcoin when people make money shorting bitcoin. There are people who can bet 10 thousand bitcoins on bitmex to short bitcoin and say it will go down and at the same time sell 10 thousand bitcoins all together to drop the price everywhere and make the double amount of profit. If we can't find a way to fix that issue and somehow make profiting by increasing the price more appealing, this price crisis we had in 2018 will follow us to 2019 as well.

Never stop trying. At some point, the SEC will be forced to approve one of the ETF applications. As far as I know, they are running out of excuses. The Bitcoin trade within the United States is by and large regulated now.

The good thing is that after ETF was rejected there is no direct effect on the market which was not expected by most of the crypto users that most of us thought that it will crash the market down right after the said rejection.We cannot link this market current performance as the late result of ETF rejection because the current performance was due to mostly people are avoiding and living the Crypto now because of bearish market performance which is not really good for the market. I wish ETF will be approve on next assembly to see if it will trigger the bullish run.

Its already given that etf have rejected bitcoin therfor there's no need to wait for any bull runs because i dont think that it can happen anymore  . though we can still experience a slight recover due to the upcoming holiday seasons and the rest major happenings  will probably occur  next year   but you guys were still correct . patience is still indeed the key in order for us to win and possibly earn a good income on this unpredictable market .

It doesn't matter, we wait patiently. ETF can't decide the fate of the cryptocurrency, it just makes the growth of Bitcoin slow. ETF is only a matter of time, in the future they will definitely accept the cryptocurrency market.

the whole year we see etf news bitcoin prices got affected very badly crypto is decentralised lot of mass adoption is happening around the world still bitcoin etfs market is reacting hopefully next year the trend may change

Not rejected
But like it was predicted final decision will be 28 Feb
If rejected than it is not all over but company may start new procedure one time again
In fact that ETF approval story can continue for years
I hope Bakkt will launch the end of January
It is much more important for bitcoin adoption

Many investors are dumping the cryptocurrencies because of this ETF issues and that is really giving me concerned.  ETF might not be approved in the next three years so we should not allow it to keep on pulling the market down.  I can tell you that bitcoin and blockchain technology will be fine without ETF so we should not much disturbing ourselves because of disapproval or approval of ETF. Believe me that even in February 2019 , it will not be approve. The sec has see this ETF issues as away of regulating the cryptocurrencies market and an opportunity to bring the cryptocurrencies market down.

ETF just postponed to end february 2019. I am believe ETF will approved by regulation because a few country already alllowing bitcoin trading in their stock market. Its just matter of time before SEC approving ETF

for example in my country, where government is trying to get bitcoin into the trading market, and there are still many other countries like that. therefore I also believe that ethics will be realized soon

ETF is not postponed. But the SEC postponed their decision on whether to approve or reject the ETF to February 2019. They are just trying to delay it infinitely, just like what the Danish government is trying to do with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

I heard that February 2019 is the last deadline. They cannot delay it anymore
Will be interested to see what will happen

I have a positive feeling that it'll be approved come February end, as the sec statement clearly said it could be approved in days or years giving the hint that approval is on the cards. Also it's pertinent to note that Gabur Gurbacs, Director of Digital Assets Strategy at VanEck has given out a statement that bitcoins etf may just be approved, plus Nasdaq launching it's futures shall further help the cause. If you see a majority of the public wants it, the sec will have tow bow in to their demands, and give it their approval.

Link : https://www.ccn.com/vaneck-were-cautiously-optimistic-on-bitcoin-etf-approval/

I really hope so. We have been waiting for a Bitcoin ETF because everyone is thinking that it can give the needed catalyst to see the market starts another bull run. So we should remain optimistic and look at early Q1 2019. We also have the Bakkt offerings as well, so it everything went on our way, we might really see a bull run next year so everyone needs to be patience and just hold on our coins.

I thought its supposed to be on February. So the rumors that it will be 2019 before some kind of rushing up the market to buy these dumps are big right now. That we have to believe the upcoming ETF announcements are going to give it a big kick  ??? ??? ???

As they said in the SEC, it can be approved tomorrow and maybe in 10 years.

Exactly, there is no deadline set so the decision could be made anytime.
That is why it's important not to rely on that and not to expect too much from ETF. To be honest I don't think this will influence market in some very significant way so don't base your decision and strategy on that, it doesn't make sense.

yes its another posponed ETF decision by SEC because they need to reviews its again. I hope in february 2019 final decision will be made. I am sure ETF approved wiil drive bitcoin price higher and also will help bitcoin mass adoption

but without the regulation we could not kick off in the market because investors may not feel security with no third party around that could remove doubts about manipulation of the team itself. This is just like pointing out governments rulings about the system but the truth is that only finger pointing to the government to be blane fornthe bear market but three fingers will point at the team for cryptocurrency itself where manipulation could be ar high rate.

SEC decision on february end but BAKKT launch at January 2019. If BAKKT already launch in January, i think its already good for cryptomarket beside ETF. Hope SEC will approve ETF

Definitely not. Initially the plan was to make people rely on ETF decision thus to manipulate thr price but as we go along the way people are getting used to it so the recent denied decision was like an air that passed by. And besides we have more great news that coming in 2019, we should look forward to this. Adoption is real thing now.

https://www.coindesk.com/7-southern-eu-nations-unite-to-take-lead-on-blockchain-adoption

Yes, For anyone who will open this topic up in December 2018 and forward, this "etf rejected" is the old one not the new one and there is still time for SEC to decide on the next ETF. Saying that I still think they are playing with us like cat and mouse.

First of all, I have always said that even getting rejected by SEC about the ETF is great because it shows how much we matured and the market is becoming more legal and legal every single day which is great for bitcoin.

Also we are getting closer to an ETF for sure, even if this one gets rejected there will be one that will be accepted soon, how many ETF can they reject before they will have to finally accept one because there will be no reason not to accept it. Hence, we just need to be patient and wait for our turn, when it happens we should not allow whales to dictate the market.

We really don't know what is the effect of ETF into the market once approved by SEC. I've never that it could contribute a lot or help changed the current trend and makes crypto getting stronger. Crypto regulations is a long discussion and it takes months to clearly decide the best.

From what i am read, final decision is end february. Hoping this is true and ETF approved by authorities because it will increase investor confident. With ETF, financial institution must be want to invest in bitcoin and crypto.

Well, this is a definite evidence that the big SEC is actually afraid of crypto currency or they have a vested interest in crypto currency themselves and would want crypto currency to grow at a slowerer pace so that that they could buy more for dirt cheap and get income from it when they have ETF passed. Capitalism.

- Many people and some experts predict that the ETF could make the crypto market grow and become more popular but honestly, I just feel that these are predictions without any basis and factual evidence. They always talk about the great benefits that the ETF brings while they have nothing to prove that it is true and correct, good things seem to be just their imagination, I think there is no ETF, this market will be very good development and that is what it has achieved in recent years, users and investors contribute to this result, the ETF is not important

How exactly will it increase confidemce? And that deadline you're saying which is to feb next year has been moved several times already. I don't think an etf approval is the solution to this market crisis at all.

Important to note, not all ETF's are the same. There are some promising options being released in February.

we have to wait continuously, I did not find a positive impact from etf.
it's like a game and I'm already bored with various issues. provide constructive information and the market will respond well.

You won't find any positive impact because the EFT decision what postponed again in Feb if I'm not mistaken.

But yes I would have to agree that it really get us bored with all the waiting game. Bakkt postponed as well in January, that's why most investors just decided to get out that's why the price goes suddenly below $4k and with no positive news coming, I'm sure that we will see this trend up to the end of the year.

The problem is that this ETF has become the main topic for several weeks in cryptoworld so that when the results are bad, then will be bad for the market, now we need more support such as ETF approval so that confidence will returns?

Bitcoin ETF applications may be rejected all the time!
Because of the big doubts about the supervision of BTC and cryptocurrency, there is no way to protect the interests of investors.
 This is the main reason for the rejection of Bitcoin ETFs!

Proponents of cryptocurrencies do not have to be pessimistic about this. The evolution of money cannot be stopped. If this is not a true evolution then Bitcoin has long since disappeared, so don't worry about the future of Bitcoin. Bitcoin must become very expensive in the future.

This is an old news already because there was another discussions being made as per congress suggestions to improve cryptocurrency system that is acceptable to all countries around the world. However, I do not know for now if there is a news about the discussions though there were speculations already as one of the members of the congress had told that there is a huge percentage that ETF will be approve.

ETF is not rejected, it is only postponed to next year in February 2019.If they wanted to reject the ETF, they could have done so now but they are delaying it means that they are making grounds to accept it.

Yeah, right. Even without ETF, bitcoin still survives. At this point, there are still so many issues with ETF that is why it didn't passed the said criteria given by SEC. They also said that ETF was just an unknown company. Just what many were expecting that ETF will be fit to the SEC's reqt's , that is why many are disappointed about this.

but now , although with ETF bitcoin and cryptocurrency price not recovered yet.almost all of investors wait ETF approval.much people said bitcoin could survive without ETF, but unfortunately fact shows different.

US government shutdown led to the van eck etf being pulled by van eck/cboe/solidX, it has now been resubmitted but there is no date given yet for when the 240 day notice period will start. Can probably expect a decision at the end of the year. If bakkt gets up and running and the space matures further then it got an ok chance of getting the green light.

I think there are a few good ETFs out there. Not all are the same. Keep the faith.

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