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Title: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Hydrogen on August 23, 2018, 09:52:46 AM Quote The word “bitcoin” is as likely to garner feverish excitement as it is glaring criticism. The financial community sees speculative promise in the form of trade that currently has little to no regulation. Meanwhile, others argue that it’s a distraction that detracts from the overall longevity of U.S. financial institutions. Bitcoin’s energy consumption has become a recent talking point in the debate. A Forbes article published May 30 indicates that bitcoin dramatically increases global energy consumption – and that electricity is its “Achilles heel.” I am a researcher who studies clean energy technology, specifically the transition toward decarbonized energy systems. I think that the conversation around bitcoin and energy has been oversimplified. New technologies – such as data centers, computers and before them trains, planes and automobiles – are often energy-intensive. Over time, all of these have become more efficient, a natural progression of any technology: Saving energy equates to saving costs. By talking specifically about just the consumption of energy alone, I believe many fail to understand one of the most basic benefits of renewable energy systems. Electricity production can increase while still maintaining a minimal impact on the environment. Rather than focusing on how much energy bitcoin uses, the discussion should center around who indeed is producing it – and where their power comes from. Counting consumption Unlocking a bitcoin requires an intense amount of computational power. Think of bitcoin as sort of a hidden currency code, where its value is derived by solving a programmable puzzle. Getting through this puzzle requires computer brainpower. Electricity is 90 percent of the cost to mine bitcoin. As such, bitcoin mining uses an exorbitant amount of power: somewhere between an estimated 30 terrawatt hours alone in 2017 alone. That’s as much electricity as it takes to power the entire nation of Ireland in one year. Indeed, this is a lot, but not exorbitant. Banking consumes an estimated 100 terrawatts of power annually. If bitcoin technology were to mature by more than 100 times its current market size, it would still equal only 2 percent of all energy consumption. Power sources Bitcoin is certainly consuming an increasing amount of power worldwide, but is it increasing the world’s carbon consumption? Bitcoin miners have traditionally set up shop in China, where coal supplies 60 percent of the nation’s electricity. Now, bitcoin mining is exploding in areas with cheap power, like the Pacific Northwest. Power there is mainly cheap due to the massive availability of hydropower, a low-carbon resource. Bitcoin mining in China, with a largely fossil-based electricity source, may indeed be problematic. China is already one of the world’s major contributors of carbon emissions. However, bitcoin mining in Oregon? Not the same thing. Not all types of energy generation are equal in their impact on the environment, nor does the world uniformly rely on the same types of generation across states and markets. In Europe, for example, Iceland is becoming a popular place for bitcoin mining. That nation relies on nearly 100 percent renewable energy for its production. An abundant supply of geothermal and hydropower energy makes bitcoiners’ power demand cheap and nearly irrelevant. Similarly, in the hydropower-driven Pacific Northwest, miners can still expect to turn a profit without contributing heavily to carbon emissions. The right discussion Like many other aspects of the energy industry, bitcoin is not necessarily a “bad guy.” It’s simply a new, and vaguely understood, industry. The discussion about energy consumption and bitcoin is, I believe, unfair without discussing the energy intensity of new technologies overall, specifically in data centers. Rather than discussing the energy consumption of bitcoin generally, people should be discussing the carbon production of bitcoin, and understanding whether certain mining towns are adding to an already large environmental burden. Although there has been extensive discussion in the media of bitcoin’s energy consumption, I’m not aware of any studies that actually calculate the comparative carbon footprint of the bitcoin process. Global electricity consumption is going up overall. The U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts that world use will increase nearly 28 percent over the next two decades. But increasing energy consumption is bad only if we aren’t shifting toward less carbon-dense power production. So far, it seems that only miners are currently shifting toward cleaner parts of the world. So perhaps people should quit criticizing bitcoin for its energy intensity and start criticizing states and nations for still providing new industries with dirty power supplies instead. https://theconversation.com/stop-worrying-about-how-much-energy-bitcoin-uses-97591 .... Haven't seen many pieces which made an attempt to be objective and unbiased on bitcoin's energy consumption. I believe this one to be accurate with a single exception. Most bitcoin mining operations in china are powered by hydroelectric plants rather than coal. She is correct in citing coal as producing the majority of china's electricity. However she is incorrect in thinking this translates to bitcoin mining utilizing coal. Hydroelectric power is cheaper and more affordable than coal generated electricity. Bitcoin miners have mobility due to mining not being tied to any specific geographic area. This makes it the perfect application for "zero carbon emission", environmentally friendly, hydroelectric power and I do believe that is the source miners tap. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Harlot on August 23, 2018, 10:00:44 AM Yup for people who are against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general they always try to find loopholes or associate bad things on it yet they fail to even make a good ppint about of it. Just like what they are saying about crypto mining taking up a lot of power when they fail to make renewable energy as a factor. They talk about mining wasting energy as if electricity now is a scarce resource. Why not instead of complaining about it they instead try to improve the renewable energy we currently have because it is really now important to change from coal to a much more greener alternative.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: bitmover on August 23, 2018, 12:56:33 PM Hydroelectric power is cheaper and more affordable than coal generated electricity. Bitcoin miners have mobility due to mining not being tied to any specific geographic area. This makes it the perfect application for "zero carbon emission", environmentally friendly, hydroelectric power and I do believe that is the source miners tap. This. Bitcoin miners will always mine where energy is cheaper, not matter where this energy source is located. As hidroelectricity is much cheaper than the other sources, miners will use hidro electricity because it's cheaper, not because they are worried about carbon emissions. They are doing what is better for the environment because it's also more profitable for them, to mine with green energy Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: tenebriscaelum on August 23, 2018, 01:33:42 PM Yup for people who are against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general they always try to find loopholes or associate bad things on it yet they fail to even make a good ppint about of it. Just like what they are saying about crypto mining taking up a lot of power when they fail to make renewable energy as a factor. They talk about mining wasting energy as if electricity now is a scarce resource. Why not instead of complaining about it they instead try to improve the renewable energy we currently have because it is really now important to change from coal to a much more greener alternative. That is true also they can only make a valid reason to stop cryptocurrency mining if the miners and the mining farms stop paying for the electricity that they use, and I doubt that they are now paying what they consume. Also some of these miners also use renewable energy like solar panels so that they can reduce their monthly costs. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Lucius on August 23, 2018, 01:37:52 PM Haven't seen many pieces which made an attempt to be objective and unbiased on bitcoin's energy consumption. I believe this one to be accurate with a single exception. Most bitcoin mining operations in china are powered by hydroelectric plants rather than coal. She is correct in citing coal as producing the majority of china's electricity. However she is incorrect in thinking this translates to bitcoin mining utilizing coal. Hydroelectric power is cheaper and more affordable than coal generated electricity. Bitcoin miners have mobility due to mining not being tied to any specific geographic area. This makes it the perfect application for "zero carbon emission", environmentally friendly, hydroelectric power and I do believe that is the source miners tap. You make thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4809404.msg43385732#msg43385732) on similar topic recently, and you also pointed out how good is hydroelectric power, but it is not environmentally friendly in any way - we should stop treat hydroelectric as something completely harmless towards the environment. I think something that consumes less then 1% of the total world consumption of electricity, should not be a matter of concern - it is just a part of the regular attempts to show BTC as something bad in this world. Besides everyday stories regarding criminal use, money laundering, ransomware and many others, now they say we will stay in dark because it takes too much power to mine bitcoin... Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: r32godzilla on August 23, 2018, 01:44:23 PM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Escf4 on August 23, 2018, 02:45:28 PM For me I am believing tha capability of bitcoin to sustain any odds that are encountered by bitcoin, so if bitcoin has poured some energy about this odds, we should not be worrying about it ,because bitcoin is strong and and can be trusted.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Reid on August 23, 2018, 02:50:26 PM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. Truth. It is just an attack. It became normal to me nowadays. They will try to create a hole just so they could attack the bitcoin technology for a purpose. One is to dump the price. For what? For them to have a way to join the bitcoin technology and then bringing a bull afterwards. Creating good stories after they came in. It is just another manipulation which should not be wasted any time and energy. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: frowsiter on August 23, 2018, 03:19:21 PM Quote However she is incorrect in thinking this translates to bitcoin mining utilizing coal. Yeah that is the incorrect statement she has made and what they are thinking about this ? Do they think that whatever is generated from the electricity hubs is mostly distributed into the town planning and I dont think that there is anything as if there are mining farms at the very corner of colony, counties, streets and much more. Lolz. The energy is not free and miners do pay the electricity bills, isnt it? That completely states the law to me, nothing is free, everything is conserved from one form of energy to another, tell them the basics of physics. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: CoinEraser on August 23, 2018, 03:46:22 PM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. Such accusations are really trying to undermine Bitcoins reputation. Many of my friends have asked me if these accusations are true. Luckily I could tell them again and again that such statements about Bitcoin are not true. Printing and producing fiat money consumes more electricity worldwide than Bitcoin. The process alone of melting down metals and thus minting coins consumes a large amount of electricity. People don't think about that. So I can refute the statement that Bitcoin is a power guzzler. :) Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: dothebeats on August 23, 2018, 04:11:21 PM While the majority of the mining power is concentrated in China and most of these miners utilize hydroelectric power, the rest of the world remains on using coal as their primary source of electricity and that's still a significant amount of carbon emission to think of. While I do believe that adds up to the problems of this world, many so-called 'experts' are singling out bitcoin in this issue of carbon emission, completely turning a blind eye on petrol products, cars and other industries which pretty much uses more power than what half of the bitcoin network is using. If all miners can have their hands on clean and green electricity, they'd do it since they'd be hitting multiple birds in one stone: cost-effective, cheap and the general temperature is apt for the machines' running condition, 24/7.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: 1NV3ST0NM3 on August 23, 2018, 04:22:52 PM Nothing is perfect or defect free in this world. If you reap the advantages of bitcoin mining, then you must also be prepared for the negative aspect of it. I don't disagree with the fact that bitcoin mining does not consume much of energy or is bad for the environment. But the thing is if the efforts are being made to shift to some renewable sources is made, as mentioned earlier also, then there would be some relief. Obviously this is not feasible immediately or on an overnight phenomenon. It will take some time.
PS: Crypto can become environment friendly if appropriate steps are taken. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: kryptqnick on August 23, 2018, 05:49:11 PM It seems reasonable that increasing electricity consumption itself is not a problem. Bitcoin miners are not making the wastes compared to those of big plants anyway. The whole world should just slowly turn to using natural sources (water, wind, sun) more to obtain electricity without harming the environment. Burning coal is not cool, but there are other ways. I agree that we should rather blame those offering bad ways of getting electricity, rather than electricity itself. Electricity itself is considered to be an eco-friendly way of getting energy in some spheres (transport, for instance) anyway. And even in this way of polluting stuff, bitcoin is taking like less than 1%, at the same time providing real value.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: jeronimosuykens on August 23, 2018, 06:55:54 PM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. If they do, does nuclear electricity save more? I'm also wondering. If for mining machine to near nuclear power. And can they be combined? Of course it is far from human. In order not to be affected by magnetic waves, ... If so then we have nothing to worry about energy.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: rickadone on August 24, 2018, 11:00:58 AM Also lets not forget that the way energy is produced is changing recently.
I understand we used to have coal energy anywhere in the energy sector but recently stuff like solar and wind has been garnering more attention and solar energy has been getting a lot cheaper, in USA where there are suborbian areas (the house by house neighborhoods you see on movies) people have been putting up solar panels as their roofs and those roofs have been garnering energy without costing anything aside from the initial cost, and in return makes that home run on free energy. If you do that on bitcoin you are basically spending a lot of capital on a miner facility at the start but after that all of your energy costs goes to zero. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Assface16678 on August 24, 2018, 11:48:14 AM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. This is so true, as a matter of fact bitcoim helps the economy to grow and also non- renewable sources are not the only source of energy, therefore we cannot blame the bitcoim for this. Im fact bitcoin gives more benifit. Do energy can give food to the poor? We can think logical with this. Things need to be analyzed deeply. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: carlisle1 on August 24, 2018, 12:57:20 PM For me I am believing tha capability of bitcoin to sustain any odds that are encountered by bitcoin, so if bitcoin has poured some energy about this odds, we should not be worrying about it ,because bitcoin is strong and and can be trusted. Don't worry mate as we know that this is another bullying on bitcoins popularity,they can't accept the market of cryptocurrency is overwhelming and will reached this far,so everyone is throwing stone to our community because of this happening.this allegations are only created to make negative impressions to cryptocurrency but the truth is we are not consuming that large amount of electricity Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: laracastvue on August 24, 2018, 01:09:41 PM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. This is so true, as a matter of fact bitcoim helps the economy to grow and also non- renewable sources are not the only source of energy, therefore we cannot blame the bitcoim for this. Im fact bitcoin gives more benifit. Do energy can give food to the poor? We can think logical with this. Things need to be analyzed deeply. Yes you are right, bitcoins will help the economy of the country to improve even more and that is the reason why china is legalizing cryptocurrency in their own country. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: audaciousbeing on August 24, 2018, 03:31:09 PM These are articles that should be promoted for those who are bent on looking for every excuse to attack bitcoin that the excuse they now have is about the electricity consumed when all other arguments have failed them. The unique flaw in their argument is that is giving credence to their myopic view, they compare the global utilization of energy of bitcoin against the consumption of energy of one industry, region or country just to make an argument.
In comparison with total consumption of energy globally, the article made mention of 2% which is minute and believing with the continual development in the area of energy development and consumption, this is expected to fall lower that in the long run, it would only be an unsubstantiated fear. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: atliens99 on August 24, 2018, 03:40:41 PM I know, the whole energy argument is stupid. Just think about all the electricity the banking and credit card systems use (office buildings, employees driving to work, etc)
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: kripkiki12 on August 24, 2018, 03:45:19 PM Obviously it is energy consuming but in todays world what is not... I think that should not necessarily be an argument against Bitcoin
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Visteryy on August 26, 2018, 08:37:35 PM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. From here we should also have a new plan. To reduce the load on the power instead of it by another energy. Use the energy of the wind or the power of the flow. It is also considered to be a solution to make bitcoin more stable.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: sunflower_11438 on August 26, 2018, 10:50:29 PM yes, those who don't like bitcoin will look for the side they think is negative I think if things continue like this bitcoin prices are getting higher and more energy is needed instead, it will encourage our creativity to find new types of energy that are environmentally friendly Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: timerland on August 29, 2018, 10:45:33 AM Yeah exactly. Especially with some mining operations potentially turning to self sustained sources of energy, and the growing supply of cheap electricity made possible by hydro, wind, or solar sources, I don't see any reason why we should worry about the energy that the network uses.
In fact, the energy that bitcoin uses has pretty much little to no significance when it comes to the grand scheme of things, on a global scale. What really matters is how the energy used in the operation of the network is generated. This kind of reminds me of a thread saying that we shouldn't go cashless because of all the energy we use once all the population adopts it. It's just as absurd as saying that bitcoin's energy use will be a problem when mass adoption occurs. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: 1Referee on August 29, 2018, 03:52:45 PM It's just as absurd as saying that bitcoin's energy use will be a problem when mass adoption occurs. It's called ignorance and somewhat mixed with hypocrisy. In all cases when people don't use something, they'll consider it useless and in case it consumes a significant amount of resources, it's automatically a waste of resources for them. People didn't like the internet in the very early days, where it was said that it would be an environmental disaster. If you look back now, where billions of people use and rely on the internet, it's suddenly no longer an issue. I'm pretty sure that Bitcoin will follow the same route where later on people will no longer start throwing with their nonsensical arguments. And yes, there will always be a good number of nitpickers that regardless of how something works, will not agree with it. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: St4yInTh3D4rk on August 29, 2018, 03:58:56 PM I think we no need to worry even if the bitcoin miners uses lot of energy because we have lot of methods to produce the electricity even for few more centuries just like the hydro power,solar,wind power and mainly the nuclear power plants but most of countries excepting the nuclear power plants because it doesn't harm to the environment but in future if there is scarcity for electricity we can use them at great extent.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Theb on August 29, 2018, 04:12:15 PM We will always have that kinds of biased articles where another industry/entity could have save this or powered that but they always fail to see that the world does not run like that way. I am tired of seeing these kinds of articles as they don't give a fair opinion about these kinds of matter, they make it feel like BTC mining is taking away a large portion of the world's overall power consumption and it has taken it away from another country/place that should be benefiting from it when they didn't, Mining Bitcoin didn't really deprived any country from their use of electricity.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Bezobraznike on August 29, 2018, 04:26:59 PM We will always have that kinds of biased articles where another industry/entity could have save this or powered that but they always fail to see that the world does not run like that way. I am tired of seeing these kinds of articles as they don't give a fair opinion about these kinds of matter, they make it feel like BTC mining is taking away a large portion of the world's overall power consumption and it has taken it away from another country/place that should be benefiting from it when they didn't, Mining Bitcoin didn't really deprived any country from their use of electricity. Yes we will have that Theb, and truth is that world will depends of renewable energy. Bitcoin energy consummation is will meet this requirements. Power from water, sun or some third element, there will be many new sources of energy in the future. This article that creator of this thread shared with us is great. It speaks about other side that many people didn`t hear about. I believe we have nothing to worry about, we having a good direction, and spam news doesn`t hit all of us. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: deloreswest on August 29, 2018, 05:03:42 PM Yes bitcoin mining is only 2% of our daily usage of electricity and also with fast development of cryptocurrency it eould drive the use of better sources of energy. I do read about this on news in internet and i do completly agree. Even old bankong system is use more energy than bitcoin .
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: shield132 on August 29, 2018, 05:35:55 PM You wouldn't stop worrying when Bitfury's largest mining center is built (for example) in your country in tax free zone with the cheapest electricity price in your country and for this reason, civilians have to pay higher rates in electricity bills and the reason why people are angered is 100% logical. It's also hard to believe people that bitcoin isn't scam scheme.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: darkangel11 on August 29, 2018, 07:21:22 PM You wouldn't stop worrying when Bitfury's largest mining center is built (for example) in your country in tax free zone with the cheapest electricity price in your country and for this reason, civilians have to pay higher rates in electricity bills and the reason why people are angered is 100% logical. It's also hard to believe people that bitcoin isn't scam scheme. What are you talking about? Why the hell would people have to pay higher bills? Maybe in third world where they need to add a couple hamster wheels in the power station every time someone screws in one more bulb. :P The power cost per kWh in a city doesn't change when a car factory or a storage center is built. Why should it change because somebody is opening a bitcoin farm? Have you ever signed up a deal with a power company? You have to tell them how much power you'll be using and they adjust the rates accordingly. You don't just plug into the nearest transformer. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: shield132 on August 31, 2018, 06:27:38 PM You wouldn't stop worrying when Bitfury's largest mining center is built (for example) in your country in tax free zone with the cheapest electricity price in your country and for this reason, civilians have to pay higher rates in electricity bills and the reason why people are angered is 100% logical. It's also hard to believe people that bitcoin isn't scam scheme. What are you talking about? Why the hell would people have to pay higher bills? Maybe in third world where they need to add a couple hamster wheels in the power station every time someone screws in one more bulb. :P The power cost per kWh in a city doesn't change when a car factory or a storage center is built. Why should it change because somebody is opening a bitcoin farm? Have you ever signed up a deal with a power company? You have to tell them how much power you'll be using and they adjust the rates accordingly. You don't just plug into the nearest transformer. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: zoeylee on October 24, 2018, 01:23:26 AM Let us not worry for that because discipline comes from our own self. Let us just help one another because everyone needs this kind of energy for our daily work. We work because we have daily needs, we need to pay also our obligation for the electric consumption.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: binhvo1505 on October 24, 2018, 02:18:25 AM But it also causes a loss of natural resources. The big problem here is the loss of resources. The article pointed out that bitcoin digging consumes a lot of energy and natural resources are now running out. We can argue for cheap electricity but can not save electricity.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: wahyu wida on October 24, 2018, 06:44:23 AM Did bitcoin use energy ? I am not hear before where bitcoin use energy because I think bitcoin just investment way for increase our money, by investing at bitcoin we can take much profit when bitcoin is growing up and we can take much money with bitcoin, many member have success with bitcoin and get much profit. we know that for bitcoin mining requires a lot of electrical energy. indeed this must be anticipated if many people of the world use it. maybe with alternative energy sources can be a solutionTitle: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: DanieIssac on October 24, 2018, 07:35:56 AM Do not be so worried about the energy that bitcoin uses, bitcoin miners today know how to use renewable energy like solar panels to save on the electricity they pay. As a result, the cost of bitcoin digging is significantly reduced
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Thanasis on October 24, 2018, 08:27:07 AM If we compare the electricity used by the banks all over the world then miners are no where near them which means mining is already saving lot of energy for us.And in future we may see the miners which can produce more hashrate of power with less energy consumption when we compare to the current miners so it is better to work on improving the miners efficiency that crying about it.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: tegacoll86 on October 26, 2018, 07:26:10 AM Obviously it is energy consuming but in todays world what is not... I think that should not necessarily be an argument against Bitcoin I am not agree. Ask from those country's people where electricity is to much expensive. Mining is worth it only for those country where electricity is cheap and almost free. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: nicster551 on October 26, 2018, 08:41:34 AM Quote The word “bitcoin” is as likely to garner feverish excitement as it is glaring criticism. The financial community sees speculative promise in the form of trade that currently has little to no regulation. Meanwhile, others argue that it’s a distraction that detracts from the overall longevity of U.S. financial institutions. Bitcoin’s energy consumption has become a recent talking point in the debate. A Forbes article published May 30 indicates that bitcoin dramatically increases global energy consumption – and that electricity is its “Achilles heel.” I am a researcher who studies clean energy technology, specifically the transition toward decarbonized energy systems. I think that the conversation around bitcoin and energy has been oversimplified. New technologies – such as data centers, computers and before them trains, planes and automobiles – are often energy-intensive. Over time, all of these have become more efficient, a natural progression of any technology: Saving energy equates to saving costs. By talking specifically about just the consumption of energy alone, I believe many fail to understand one of the most basic benefits of renewable energy systems. Electricity production can increase while still maintaining a minimal impact on the environment. Rather than focusing on how much energy bitcoin uses, the discussion should center around who indeed is producing it – and where their power comes from. Counting consumption Unlocking a bitcoin requires an intense amount of computational power. Think of bitcoin as sort of a hidden currency code, where its value is derived by solving a programmable puzzle. Getting through this puzzle requires computer brainpower. Electricity is 90 percent of the cost to mine bitcoin. As such, bitcoin mining uses an exorbitant amount of power: somewhere between an estimated 30 terrawatt hours alone in 2017 alone. That’s as much electricity as it takes to power the entire nation of Ireland in one year. Indeed, this is a lot, but not exorbitant. Banking consumes an estimated 100 terrawatts of power annually. If bitcoin technology were to mature by more than 100 times its current market size, it would still equal only 2 percent of all energy consumption. Power sources Bitcoin is certainly consuming an increasing amount of power worldwide, but is it increasing the world’s carbon consumption? Bitcoin miners have traditionally set up shop in China, where coal supplies 60 percent of the nation’s electricity. Now, bitcoin mining is exploding in areas with cheap power, like the Pacific Northwest. Power there is mainly cheap due to the massive availability of hydropower, a low-carbon resource. Bitcoin mining in China, with a largely fossil-based electricity source, may indeed be problematic. China is already one of the world’s major contributors of carbon emissions. However, bitcoin mining in Oregon? Not the same thing. Not all types of energy generation are equal in their impact on the environment, nor does the world uniformly rely on the same types of generation across states and markets. In Europe, for example, Iceland is becoming a popular place for bitcoin mining. That nation relies on nearly 100 percent renewable energy for its production. An abundant supply of geothermal and hydropower energy makes bitcoiners’ power demand cheap and nearly irrelevant. Similarly, in the hydropower-driven Pacific Northwest, miners can still expect to turn a profit without contributing heavily to carbon emissions. The right discussion Like many other aspects of the energy industry, bitcoin is not necessarily a “bad guy.” It’s simply a new, and vaguely understood, industry. The discussion about energy consumption and bitcoin is, I believe, unfair without discussing the energy intensity of new technologies overall, specifically in data centers. Rather than discussing the energy consumption of bitcoin generally, people should be discussing the carbon production of bitcoin, and understanding whether certain mining towns are adding to an already large environmental burden. Although there has been extensive discussion in the media of bitcoin’s energy consumption, I’m not aware of any studies that actually calculate the comparative carbon footprint of the bitcoin process. Global electricity consumption is going up overall. The U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts that world use will increase nearly 28 percent over the next two decades. But increasing energy consumption is bad only if we aren’t shifting toward less carbon-dense power production. So far, it seems that only miners are currently shifting toward cleaner parts of the world. So perhaps people should quit criticizing bitcoin for its energy intensity and start criticizing states and nations for still providing new industries with dirty power supplies instead. https://theconversation.com/stop-worrying-about-how-much-energy-bitcoin-uses-97591 .... Haven't seen many pieces which made an attempt to be objective and unbiased on bitcoin's energy consumption. I believe this one to be accurate with a single exception. Most bitcoin mining operations in china are powered by hydroelectric plants rather than coal. She is correct in citing coal as producing the majority of china's electricity. However she is incorrect in thinking this translates to bitcoin mining utilizing coal. Hydroelectric power is cheaper and more affordable than coal generated electricity. Bitcoin miners have mobility due to mining not being tied to any specific geographic area. This makes it the perfect application for "zero carbon emission", environmentally friendly, hydroelectric power and I do believe that is the source miners tap. Still it is worrying because our Governments will have a huge issue about it. But it the end it would still be useful because crypto will have a great impact in the future. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: arnaudel98 on October 27, 2018, 05:39:30 AM Obviously it is energy consuming but in todays world what is not... I think that should not necessarily be an argument against Bitcoin For example China and Iceland has free cost of electricity we can mine 24 hour there. But in my country where electricity is expensive bitcoin mining would never be worth it. We always care about our electricity bills.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: ChandraGold on November 01, 2018, 08:06:37 AM Do not worry too much about digging bitcoins that will consume a lot of energy, as now there are alternative energies that can save electricity. Moreover, compared to the electricity consumed by banks, it is much larger than bitcoin
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: GregH37 on November 01, 2018, 10:40:48 AM Obviously it is energy consuming but in todays world what is not... I think that should not necessarily be an argument against Bitcoin I do not think it is really as important as we make it out to be, I do not see environmentalist people marching down the road with signs "stop bitcoin, it kills trees" or whatever. No one really cares about how much bitcoin world uses in electricity, considering banks are using probably a thousand times more than what bitcoin is using there are further stuff to worry about. Plus this is a story mostly made up by the corporations like visa and mastercard to shift the focus on what sides of bitcoin could be bad and all they could think of was the energy it is using which is really not that much at all. Considering we are moving further away from old type of energy and working towards sun and wind than we can clearly say it won't be a problem sometime quite soon as well. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Genamant on November 01, 2018, 11:21:43 AM I know, the whole energy argument is stupid. Just think about all the electricity the banking and credit card systems use (office buildings, employees driving to work, etc) Always these allegations. Really stupid. do we have any idea of how much power the entire fiat system costs? Be aware that the digital number on your bank accountant represents physical fiat. Those need to be produced, moved and stored. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: spongegar on November 14, 2018, 07:01:23 AM I don't know if there is an exact correlation. But let me see if i can make sense out of it. If by using electricity i can save myself the money to commute or gas to use my car to go all the way to bank, park, line up, drive to the store, line up again and pay, drive back home then I'd gladly pay the electricity than use gas and my precious time.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Pattart on November 14, 2018, 07:40:41 AM Obviously it is energy consuming but in todays world what is not... I think that should not necessarily be an argument against Bitcoin For example China and Iceland has free cost of electricity we can mine 24 hour there. But in my country where electricity is expensive bitcoin mining would never be worth it. We always care about our electricity bills.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: xabre on November 14, 2018, 08:28:00 AM why have to think about how much of energy needed by bitcoin, I care only when bitcoin is on higher price for selling and when bitcoin at lower price for buying, just thinking when have I buy and when have to sell of bitcoin.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Roukawa on November 14, 2018, 08:58:36 AM Yup for people who are against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general they always try to find loopholes or associate bad things on it yet they fail to even make a good ppint about of it. Just like what they are saying about crypto mining taking up a lot of power when they fail to make renewable energy as a factor. They talk about mining wasting energy as if electricity now is a scarce resource. Why not instead of complaining about it they instead try to improve the renewable energy we currently have because it is really now important to change from coal to a much more greener alternative. Haters are always haters, they do not care about the industry as long as they do not want. If they did not destroy the image of cryptocurrency or bitcoin in issues like high fees and low transaction speed plus bubble thing, they tend to use the energy as consumption of bitcoin. Definitely, they just look for loopholes because they do not want bitcoin to exist. However, they know that bitcoin is usable also and current can be charged not only in geothermal but in solar also.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: biskitop on November 14, 2018, 09:04:30 AM how not to worry because in fact in fact bitcoin mining activities consume very large electrical energy, and are not environmentally friendly. maybe if there are other electric power alternatives such as solar or water, it might reduce it more. but still, the electricity consumption of bitcoin mining remains large.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: loopes on November 14, 2018, 09:08:22 AM Don't comparing about energy but we should comparing about the cost, fiat money need more cost rather than bitcoin for it's transfer, managent and renewal. While bitcoin only need less then 1$ for each transaction. So agree with you to stop saying about how much energy bitcoin uses.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: 1Referee on November 14, 2018, 09:25:25 AM why have to think about how much of energy needed by bitcoin, I care only when bitcoin is on higher price for selling and when bitcoin at lower price for buying, just thinking when have I buy and when have to sell of bitcoin. Exactly. People themselves don't care one single bit about Bitcoin's energy consumption, because they use it how it benefits them. If something is useful, the 'negative' aspect associated with that suddenly doesn't matter anymore, and this goes up for Google's (and basically other large tech companies) insane datacenters as well. Do people care how much their datacenters consume in energy? Nope, because people use their services. Those who complain about Bitcoin's energy consumtion are bitter individuals not seeing the value in Bitcoin. In other words, no coiner trash talk. These people were trash talking datacenters back in the early internet age as well. Give it time; no coiners will become addicted Bitcoiners eventually, and they'll shut up about Bitcoin's energy consumption. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: LOLpenguin on November 14, 2018, 10:41:17 AM Most bitcoin mining operations in china are powered by hydroelectric plants rather than coal. Do you have any reference to that? Would like to confirm this fact. Thanks! Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: plescruslo on November 17, 2018, 07:24:06 AM why have to think about how much of energy needed by bitcoin, I care only when bitcoin is on higher price for selling and when bitcoin at lower price for buying, just thinking when have I buy and when have to sell of bitcoin. Well you might not care about how much of the energy is used in mining Bitcoin but the miners do. The low the cost of mining, the maximum the profit they make by mining. The good market in addition adds more value to the portfolio.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: patarfweefwee on December 17, 2018, 01:44:53 PM I don't think that crypto currency itself could be using as much power as this article is saying. Considering that I've never seen the charts and outputs directly correlated with piwer and crypto currency. I mean we're just using our phones or laptops or desktops for all of this to happen. Have we ever thought how much energy we use browsing facebook?
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: maemunah on December 17, 2018, 01:53:05 PM why have to think about how much of energy needed by bitcoin, I care only when bitcoin is on higher price for selling and when bitcoin at lower price for buying, just thinking when have I buy and when have to sell of bitcoin. it's true that you have to say that the thing to think of course is when we have to buy and sell like now is the time to buy a lot of bitcoin so that someday we can get a big profitTitle: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: jjjfff on December 17, 2018, 02:32:45 PM I know, the whole energy argument is stupid. Just think about all the electricity the banking and credit card systems use (office buildings, employees driving to work, etc) An interesting question would be the efficiency. Credit card operators process millions of transactions per second using X amount of power. How much power is spent by Bitcoin per transaction? Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Idoe on December 17, 2018, 03:48:21 PM For miners, they will calculate the power needed for bitcoin mining, but for us, we only calculate the buying and selling in the crypto market between profit or loss.
At present many miners stop to mine because bitcoin has a decline so it is not in accordance with the amount of energy released. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Ahimoth on December 17, 2018, 04:09:10 PM For miners, they will calculate the power needed for bitcoin mining, but for us, we only calculate the buying and selling in the crypto market between profit or loss. Worrying cannot help you, so stop worrying if its not worth it. So its better if you focusing to the things that to much important than regretting what you have done and let yourself worry about it. Life goes on so keep moving no matter what happen because you can encounter a lot like that. Just don't do the same mistake and learn from it, dont worry about the energy you used in bitcoin because one day its worth it.At present many miners stop to mine because bitcoin has a decline so it is not in accordance with the amount of energy released. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: BitHodler on December 17, 2018, 11:42:21 PM At present many miners stop to mine because bitcoin has a decline so it is not in accordance with the amount of energy released. I think there is some artificial difficulty adjusting going on as well. Getting the difficulty down by withdrawing a large portion of hashrate long enough is clearly visible right now. You'll see that after the next -9% difficulty drop tomorrow that miners will turn on way more hashrate than they withdrew previously, all to scoop up more coins. Is this a form of manipulation? Kinda, but we can't do anything about it. Miners aren't doing anything without filling up their own pockets so it's not really surprising. The only downside is that this manipulation slows down the block times, which affects everyone using the network. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: UchihaRukawa on December 18, 2018, 01:37:25 AM why have to think about how much of energy needed by bitcoin, I care only when bitcoin is on higher price for selling and when bitcoin at lower price for buying, just thinking when have I buy and when have to sell of bitcoin. Well you might not care about how much of the energy is used in mining Bitcoin but the miners do. The low the cost of mining, the maximum the profit they make by mining. The good market in addition adds more value to the portfolio.For me, yes it does consume a lot of energy, it also means a lot of expenses to pay, but it doesn't really matter if we are earning way more than what we pay for our expenses, but I also do agree that if we are to have a lower expense to pay then that only mean that we are gonna have more and more income or profit to collect, and for me, that is what we call a good business or investment, but now that cryptocurrency value is on a down trend, I think it would be best for a much power saving method. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: coldplay3r30 on December 18, 2018, 01:53:26 AM Yup for people who are against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general they always try to find loopholes or associate bad things on it yet they fail to even make a good ppint about of it. Just like what they are saying about crypto mining taking up a lot of power when they fail to make renewable energy as a factor. They talk about mining wasting energy as if electricity now is a scarce resource. Why not instead of complaining about it they instead try to improve the renewable energy we currently have because it is really now important to change from coal to a much more greener alternative. the success of bitcoin to become the world's alternative currency, it certainly makes some countries or some of the world's financial system services feel threatened, so those with all power will hinder the progress of bitcoin to make the world's single currency, but the bitcoin step is unstoppable because the system offered by bitcoin makes it very easy for users, maybe in the future bitcoin will still be the currency of the world's single.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: aryatrals on December 18, 2018, 02:14:55 AM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. many governments are always looking for reasons to inhibit the progress of bitcoin, we know that the electricity used to mine bitcoin is not so much compared to the power needed by large companies, so this is just a reason that is made, but the bitcoin currency will always evolved because of its global nature, not in one country, but bitcoin is in the whole world.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Pattart on December 18, 2018, 02:18:25 AM We as supporters of bitcoin already know that it's totally a false allegation over bitcoin that it consumed the highest electrical energy for mining operations.Critics just want to target bitcoin by any means.Also even if it consumed higher energy,its not related to coal and mostly hydro electric power. many governments are always looking for reasons to inhibit the progress of bitcoin, we know that the electricity used to mine bitcoin is not so much compared to the power needed by large companies, so this is just a reason that is made, but the bitcoin currency will always evolved because of its global nature, not in one country, but bitcoin is in the whole world.Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: wahyu wida on December 18, 2018, 02:22:11 AM why have to think about how much of energy needed by bitcoin, I care only when bitcoin is on higher price for selling and when bitcoin at lower price for buying, just thinking when have I buy and when have to sell of bitcoin. Well you might not care about how much of the energy is used in mining Bitcoin but the miners do. The low the cost of mining, the maximum the profit they make by mining. The good market in addition adds more value to the portfolio.For me, yes it does consume a lot of energy, it also means a lot of expenses to pay, but it doesn't really matter if we are earning way more than what we pay for our expenses, but I also do agree that if we are to have a lower expense to pay then that only mean that we are gonna have more and more income or profit to collect, and for me, that is what we call a good business or investment, but now that cryptocurrency value is on a down trend, I think it would be best for a much power saving method. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Juggy777 on December 18, 2018, 03:24:30 AM many governments are always looking for reasons to inhibit the progress of bitcoin, we know that the electricity used to mine bitcoin is not so much compared to the power needed by large companies, so this is just a reason that is made, but the bitcoin currency will always evolved because of its global nature, not in one country, but bitcoin is in the whole world. Hey this is very true as bitcoins mining does not consumes high levels of resources as is previously claimed, there is no reliable research to prove this. All the rumours we read about bitcoins consuming more energy than cities, and harming the environment are false propaganda. It's pertinent to note that bitcoins miners have been infact trying to use renewable energy to mine bitcoins, and in their own ways benefiting the environment. Link: https://xbt.net/blog/bitcoin-blog/myth-busting-bitcoin-mining-is-not-necessarily-bad-for-the-environment-says-clean-energy-researcher/ Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: PlusOne88 on December 18, 2018, 03:31:24 AM I think we should worry more about what happens to the environment in general. Bitcoin may have been using a lot of power and may created a sort of an impact on energy usage but it is not the only thing that makes our environment a bit unfavorable. We all know how good bitcoin technology is and for me there is always a solution to problems. Perhaps we only have to work more on it so that both technologies and humans could evolve without problems. There are pros and cons but always remember that this things were made to make us efficient and therefore should continue be so not unless until there is no other solutions possible to this problem concerning our environment.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: apilpirman.bisnis on December 18, 2018, 04:34:59 AM What connection between energy and bitcoin, I think bitcoin do not use energy and only payment have e digital currency, the same with other digital payment bitcoin only have different price where some time on the top but some time at lower.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: d1ceplayer on December 22, 2018, 04:00:01 PM They are right, we really shouldn’t be worried about how much energy Bitcoin consumes. Those that hates Bitcoin keeps on saying it is consuming energy cause they don’t like it, so they will always say anything possible to stop cryptocurrency and Bitcoin.
Well, I will also like to add that as a miner, if you’re going to be making use of the energy supply from the government or whatever, you have to be worried about bills. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Burogh on December 23, 2018, 02:00:16 AM many governments are always looking for reasons to inhibit the progress of bitcoin, we know that the electricity used to mine bitcoin is not so much compared to the power needed by large companies, so this is just a reason that is made, but the bitcoin currency will always evolved because of its global nature, not in one country, but bitcoin is in the whole world. Hey this is very true as bitcoins mining does not consumes high levels of resources as is previously claimed, there is no reliable research to prove this. All the rumours we read about bitcoins consuming more energy than cities, and harming the environment are false propaganda. It's pertinent to note that bitcoins miners have been infact trying to use renewable energy to mine bitcoins, and in their own ways benefiting the environment. Link: https://xbt.net/blog/bitcoin-blog/myth-busting-bitcoin-mining-is-not-necessarily-bad-for-the-environment-says-clean-energy-researcher/ Its true, bitcoin mining not consume electricity more than manufacture. Beside that, right now many renewable energy that can use for mining. Miners must be want eficientcy on their device because its about production cost and i am believe we should not worry about energy that bitcoin use Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: Janation on December 23, 2018, 02:14:19 AM What connection between energy and bitcoin, I think bitcoin do not use energy and only payment have e digital currency, the same with other digital payment bitcoin only have different price where some time on the top but some time at lower. What? You don't know? Bitcoin is not just something that is being circulated in the internet. It may look harmless for you as a newbie since you don't know how Bitcoins are being circulated from miner to investors to another investors. I think you know that Bitcoin is being mined right? And that miners uses energy, and its consumption of it is really great. Payment don't use energy, that is right but did you not know that there are a lot of miners all over the world? With a lot of that rigs they are using a huge amount of energy that could even light a city, imagine that. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: wewe123 on December 23, 2018, 03:49:15 AM We must not worry about how much energy the bitcoin uses , because bitcoin is surviving for around ten years now in the business ,so we can be sure that the bitcoin has so much reserve energy , because it is one of the top coin in the market cap, we can trust that bitcoin is really reliable.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: NavI_027 on December 23, 2018, 04:27:55 AM They are right, we really shouldn’t be worried about how much energy Bitcoin consumes. Nah, I bet you really feel that way in the actaul world. The power consumption of your mining is a great factor to be considered because it is one of the biggest expenses can be deducted to your generated profit. If you will not worry for this then probably you get more losses than gains. It is okay to worry just only make sure to think a solution for that :). Well, I will also like to add that as a miner, if you’re going to be making use of the energy supply from the government or whatever, you have to be worried about bills. For those who are sick of that then why don't you try to build your own renewable power system. One of the easiest way to build is by using solar panels, it is eco friendly and take note, it doesn't need to change the topography of the environment which means that the natural environmental habitat was conserved. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: awik p on December 23, 2018, 05:44:05 AM We must not worry about how much energy the bitcoin uses , because bitcoin is surviving for around ten years now in the business ,so we can be sure that the bitcoin has so much reserve energy , because it is one of the top coin in the market cap, we can trust that bitcoin is really reliable. for now I think the percentage of electricity use for bitcoin is still small compared to factories that require a lot of energy. on the one hand, bitcoiner is currently still minimal compared to the world population. so that the electricity used is not significant. besides that development for alternative energy continues to be developedTitle: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: eaLiTy on December 23, 2018, 09:02:27 AM As the popularity of bitcoins increases there will be more demand for bitcoins which results in hike in the prices of bitcoins, so there is no need to worry about the consumption of electricity as the miners can use solar energy for mining which does not cost much except for the solar panels and other renewable energy for mining bitcoins. Many financial experts are of the opinion that the price of bitcoins will hit $ 50000 USD before 2020. Despite saying all this, let's just calculate the amount of electricity the banking industry consumes globally, it will be miniscule if you compare and that's the fact.
Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: bummm on December 23, 2018, 04:33:17 PM What connection between energy and bitcoin, I think bitcoin do not use energy and only payment have e digital currency, the same with other digital payment bitcoin only have different price where some time on the top but some time at lower. Mining process takes too much energy. Recently the attempt to count BTC electricity consumption was taken. The results shocked: the amount of energy eaten by BTC equals the electricity used by 520 thousand Canadians within a year. Title: Re: Stop worrying about how much energy bitcoin uses Post by: BTCGOLD on December 23, 2018, 04:47:46 PM It may be that the processors needed to handle the entire network need too much energy, but first of all there are still very large energy reserves in the world, and secondly, I am sure that in the future the development of processors will increase and they will not need so much energy as now.
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