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Bitcoin => Legal => Topic started by: virtualinvestor770 on August 26, 2018, 08:59:46 PM



Title: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 26, 2018, 08:59:46 PM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: jseverson on August 27, 2018, 05:28:10 AM
Their headquarters, where they plan to operate, and if they're even registered. They may also implement KYC procedures even if they aren't required by law.

If you're asking how to know whether or not they implement the procedures themselves, it should be on their site somewhere or you could simply try signing up.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Entratish on August 27, 2018, 06:20:10 AM
KYC is very much important in my opinion this cannot be left.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Gozie51 on August 27, 2018, 06:58:13 AM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

If they requires it? I think it is based on their own standard. I don't think that anybody requires them for it (at least for now, there are no proper regulation that I know of), it is just on their own decision so as to prevent multiple registration and also protect the subscribers.

Preventing multiple registration would help them reduce fake registration which will make their job also easy. It is more rigid when they require uploading of passports and approved national  identity cards. This is a good check to scammers and spammers.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Entratish on August 27, 2018, 07:01:09 AM
Scammers and jerks will find new way dont worry but though it is essential :P


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 27, 2018, 08:29:21 AM
Thanks for the information everyone. Why do some ICOs restrict the US and certain territories?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: jjacob on August 27, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Their headquarters, where they plan to operate, and if they're even registered. They may also implement KYC procedures even if they aren't required by law.

If you're asking how to know whether or not they implement the procedures themselves, it should be on their site somewhere or you could simply try signing up.

Another factor is whether the ICO is open to investors of all countries. Some countries, including the US, may have onerous restrictions of their citizens invest in ICOs. You could argue that cryptocurrencies are stateless, but governments have a way of establishing nexus and coming after you. That is one reason why ICOs (and even gambling sites) restrict participation from US citizens.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 27, 2018, 10:23:51 AM
Their headquarters, where they plan to operate, and if they're even registered. They may also implement KYC procedures even if they aren't required by law.

If you're asking how to know whether or not they implement the procedures themselves, it should be on their site somewhere or you could simply try signing up.

Another factor is whether the ICO is open to investors of all countries. Some countries, including the US, may have onerous restrictions of their citizens invest in ICOs. You could argue that cryptocurrencies are stateless, but governments have a way of establishing nexus and coming after you. That is one reason why ICOs (and even gambling sites) restrict participation from US citizens.
With implementation of kyc and aml, will that prevent countries from coming after the company


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: tonthoduy on August 27, 2018, 05:27:58 PM
may have onerous restrictions of their citizens invest in ICOs. it should be on their site somewhere or you could simply try signing up.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: hugeblack on August 27, 2018, 05:31:32 PM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

Do not invest in ICOs "no one will force you to invest" unless you trust who is behind those projects.
If those projects are registered and have headquarters" like banks," they will be required to know their users, but if they are not, they are trying to scam you and selling your data in the black markets.
So do an in-depth search of the project, the developer team, and their personal information before sending any data.

For more read, the letter addressed to the United States Senator Ron Wyden[1] or this:

Generally, under existing regulations and interpretations, a developer that sells convertible virtual currency, including in the form of ICO coins or tokens, in exchange for another type of value that substitutes for currency is a money transmitter and must comply with AML/CFT requirements that apply to this type of MSB. An exchange that sells ICO coins or tokens, or exchanges them for other virtual currency, fiat currency, or other value that substitutes for currency, would typically also be a money transmitter,

[1] https://coincenter.org/files/2018-03/fincen-ico-letter-march-2018-coin-center.pdf


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 27, 2018, 06:22:49 PM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

Do not invest in ICOs "no one will force you to invest" unless you trust who is behind those projects.
If those projects are registered and have headquarters" like banks," they will be required to know their users, but if they are not, they are trying to scam you and selling your data in the black markets.
So do an in-depth search of the project, the developer team, and their personal information before sending any data.

For more read, the letter addressed to the United States Senator Ron Wyden[1] or this:

Generally, under existing regulations and interpretations, a developer that sells convertible virtual currency, including in the form of ICO coins or tokens, in exchange for another type of value that substitutes for currency is a money transmitter and must comply with AML/CFT requirements that apply to this type of MSB. An exchange that sells ICO coins or tokens, or exchanges them for other virtual currency, fiat currency, or other value that substitutes for currency, would typically also be a money transmitter,

[1] https://coincenter.org/files/2018-03/fincen-ico-letter-march-2018-coin-center.pdf
To be safe, it looks like its best to implement KYC and AML to avoid all penalties from government. That would be my next step in the project.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Umkar on August 27, 2018, 07:16:18 PM
KYC is very much important in my opinion this cannot be left.
KYC is important for fraudulent ICO projects. This is unquestionable. They disappear not only with the money of investors. but also with their confidential information and copies of their passports, as well as with similar data of credulous participants in the generosity campaign ICO. In the future, and they will be able to sell this information.
In the case of bounty hunters, the ICO team here is not at all entitled to require them to undergo a KYC check. No country requires this. Some countries, such as the US and China, are only worried that their citizens will not suffer material losses because of the risky investments of their funds in ICO projects. Therefore, prohibitions do not apply to persons who are not investors in ICO projects.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 27, 2018, 07:33:50 PM
KYC is very much important in my opinion this cannot be left.
KYC is important for fraudulent ICO projects. This is unquestionable. They disappear not only with the money of investors. but also with their confidential information and copies of their passports, as well as with similar data of credulous participants in the generosity campaign ICO. In the future, and they will be able to sell this information.
In the case of bounty hunters, the ICO team here is not at all entitled to require them to undergo a KYC check. No country requires this. Some countries, such as the US and China, are only worried that their citizens will not suffer material losses because of the risky investments of their funds in ICO projects. Therefore, prohibitions do not apply to persons who are not investors in ICO projects.
So with implementing KYC and AML, does this mean its safe for companies to let US and China individuals participate in their ICO? Should a 4rd party site be used for KYC/AML?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Entratish on August 28, 2018, 04:03:53 AM
For KYC/AML 4d party can be useful but it should be trusted one. :D


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 28, 2018, 07:18:08 AM
For KYC/AML 4d party can be useful but it should be trusted one. :D
How difficult is it too b implement on a site that's already developed.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: jseverson on August 28, 2018, 08:02:37 AM
So with implementing KYC and AML, does this mean its safe for companies to let US and China individuals participate in their ICO?

Not in China because ICOs are banned there. They have to be registered with the SEC in the US because they're not allowed to operate there otherwise and they can only serve accredited investors. Both countries' regulations go beyond a simple requirement of KYC/AML.

Should a 4rd party site be used for KYC/AML?

What do you mean? KYC/AML procedures can be outsourced to third parties, if that's what you're asking.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: HeRetiK on August 28, 2018, 12:04:35 PM
Thanks for the information everyone. Why do some ICOs restrict the US and certain territories?

Because in some territories ICOs are either illegal or legal grey areas.

For example as soon as founders allow US citizens to take part in an ICO, without actively seeking out the SEC's approval or abiding its regulation, the SEC will have a close eye on them; legal problems being almost assured regardless of the founder's country of origin or operation.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 28, 2018, 12:24:16 PM
So with implementing KYC and AML, does this mean its safe for companies to let US and China individuals participate in their ICO?

Not in China because ICOs are banned there. They have to be registered with the SEC in the US because they're not allowed to operate there otherwise and they can only serve accredited investors. Both countries' regulations go beyond a simple requirement of KYC/AML.

Should a 4rd party site be used for KYC/AML?

What do you mean? KYC/AML procedures can be outsourced to third parties, if that's what you're asking.

So after implementing KYC/AML, does a business have to meet other requirements for all countries that have individuals who may participate? What I mean by outsourced is there are a lot of companies that you link to your ICO website that will validate users and make sure they meet KYC/AML. Hence putting the responsibility of the user's data on them.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 28, 2018, 12:43:26 PM
Thanks for the information everyone. Why do some ICOs restrict the US and certain territories?

Because in some territories ICOs are either illegal or legal grey areas.

For example as soon as founders allow US citizens to take part in an ICO, without actively seeking out the SEC's approval or abiding its regulation, the SEC will have a close eye on them; legal problems being almost assured regardless of the founder's country of origin or operation.
Is there a document that has a list of countries  and regulations required?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: jseverson on August 28, 2018, 01:17:08 PM
So after implementing KYC/AML, does a business have to meet other requirements for all countries that have individuals who may participate?

Yes. KYC/AML procedures are only really for anti money laundering compliance. There may be other laws that need to be observed depending on the jurisdiction.

What I mean by outsourced is there are a lot of companies that you link to your ICO website that will validate users and make sure they meet KYC/AML. Hence putting the responsibility of the user's data on them.

I don't exactly get what you're saying, but yes, a third party can do the validation for an ICO. I'm not sure if they can take sole and full responsibility of the data though.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: sheenshane on August 28, 2018, 02:02:16 PM

Do not invest in ICOs "no one will force you to invest" unless you trust who is behind those projects.
But there are some projects that at the first run of their ICO's project they didn't ask personal data or KYC/AML but when the tokens are distributed at that time they ask you to pass a personal data. I hate that kind of project proposal but you don't have any choice just to pass your KYC or you didn't credit your token that your investment.
If you are investors or bounty hunters must be select a project that hasn't implemented KYC to avoid sharing your personal data.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 28, 2018, 02:52:17 PM
So after implementing KYC/AML, does a business have to meet other requirements for all countries that have individuals who may participate?

Yes. KYC/AML procedures are only really for anti money laundering compliance. There may be other laws that need to be observed depending on the jurisdiction.

What I mean by outsourced is there are a lot of companies that you link to your ICO website that will validate users and make sure they meet KYC/AML. Hence putting the responsibility of the user's data on them.

I don't exactly get what you're saying, but yes, a third party can do the validation for an ICO. I'm not sure if they can take sole and full responsibility of the data though.
It looks like I will reach out to a crypto lawyer.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: HeRetiK on August 28, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
Thanks for the information everyone. Why do some ICOs restrict the US and certain territories?

Because in some territories ICOs are either illegal or legal grey areas.

For example as soon as founders allow US citizens to take part in an ICO, without actively seeking out the SEC's approval or abiding its regulation, the SEC will have a close eye on them; legal problems being almost assured regardless of the founder's country of origin or operation.
Is there a document that has a list of countries  and regulations required?

There's a short overview of the regulatory status of ICOs in various jurisdictions on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_coin_offering

However it's rather incomplete and doesn't do the complexity of the issue justice. International law is no joke. It gets bad when finance is involved and even worse when looking at unprecedented asset classes such as cryptocurrencies and ICO tokens.


It looks like I will reach out to a crypto lawyer.

If you plan on starting on ICO, professional legal support will be indispensable. Whether it's worth the money when merely investing depends on the size of your investment though, I guess.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 28, 2018, 04:01:10 PM
i'm going to consult with LegalZoom. has any ICO ever used LegalZoom for ICO services on legal matters?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: jseverson on August 29, 2018, 06:55:48 AM
i'm going to consult with LegalZoom. has any ICO ever used LegalZoom for ICO services on legal matters?

I tried looking for some but couldn't find any. I did find these reviews (https://www.consumeraffairs.com/legal/legalzoom.html) though which may be troubling lol. Either way, you need professional advice, and while you're technically not hiring a lawyer, LegalZoom can still provide it. It should be fine.

I'd like to note that trying to save on legal fees might bite you in the ass later though, especially if you're starting an ICO where lots of things could potentially go wrong.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Yusuf_Jay on August 29, 2018, 07:50:11 AM
KYC / AML is a due diligence process that allows companies to verify the identity of their customers, ensure that the money they want to send is legally obtained and that the customer is not part of the sanctions list, a criminal, a terrorist, or a corrupt organization.

Why is this important? Regulators around the world are increasingly interested in ICOs. This can create uncertainty for cryptocurrency projects and their investors. Although national laws are sometimes absent or unclear, Know Your Customer (KYC) is a universal concept that is widely understood in global finance.

Voluntarily complying with KYC regulations provides many benefits to the company and its investors, even if they are not currently explicitly mandated to enforce the process.

In other words, KYC / AML is a priority to protect contributors and clients, which is why many ICO decide to implement the KYC / AML process.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Harlot on August 29, 2018, 12:20:20 PM
After they established a legitimate business in their country of origin it will always depend on where they will promote and locally launch their ICOs, most of the cases (not all countries) where there have a local representative promoting their ICO on that country they will be required to exercise KYC but it always depend on the country's rules and regulation. But a lot of ICO developers are already avoiding this just by promoting their ICOs internationally where there is no governing body that will prohibit them on not requiring ICOs, just like what happened to Thailans were ICO sales and promotions are banned but it is not stopping their citizens on participating ICO sales internationally.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 29, 2018, 04:14:08 PM
i'm going to consult with LegalZoom. has any ICO ever used LegalZoom for ICO services on legal matters?

I tried looking for some but couldn't find any. I did find these reviews (https://www.consumeraffairs.com/legal/legalzoom.html) though which may be troubling lol. Either way, you need professional advice, and while you're technically not hiring a lawyer, LegalZoom can still provide it. It should be fine.

I'd like to note that trying to save on legal fees might bite you in the ass later though, especially if you're starting an ICO where lots of things could potentially go wrong.
Thanks for the post. Those reviews aren't good at all, so legalzoom wont be the option. I'm trying to use the most cost effective way until I'm able to get funding. Right now, everything is being done by me. After I complete the WP, and Landing page, I can then consult with legal on the best route as far as where to register, KYC, and AML.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 29, 2018, 04:24:40 PM
KYC / AML is a due diligence process that allows companies to verify the identity of their customers, ensure that the money they want to send is legally obtained and that the customer is not part of the sanctions list, a criminal, a terrorist, or a corrupt organization.

Why is this important? Regulators around the world are increasingly interested in ICOs. This can create uncertainty for cryptocurrency projects and their investors. Although national laws are sometimes absent or unclear, Know Your Customer (KYC) is a universal concept that is widely understood in global finance.

Voluntarily complying with KYC regulations provides many benefits to the company and its investors, even if they are not currently explicitly mandated to enforce the process.

In other words, KYC / AML is a priority to protect contributors and clients, which is why many ICO decide to implement the KYC / AML process.
Why aren't anonymous sites using KYC/AML? It seems like people are still using them. Better yet, are all ICOs requested to register the company?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 29, 2018, 04:32:28 PM
After they established a legitimate business in their country of origin it will always depend on where they will promote and locally launch their ICOs, most of the cases (not all countries) where there have a local representative promoting their ICO on that country they will be required to exercise KYC but it always depend on the country's rules and regulation. But a lot of ICO developers are already avoiding this just by promoting their ICOs internationally where there is no governing body that will prohibit them on not requiring ICOs, just like what happened to Thailans were ICO sales and promotions are banned but it is not stopping their citizens on participating ICO sales internationally.
Is there a complete list of countries that have banned ICOs. I'm working on a sports platform and seeking which countries to blacklist. In addition, it seems like there is no way to block participants as VPNs can be used.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Kemarit on August 29, 2018, 04:43:46 PM
In addition to what others have said, usually they have legal experts who they seek advise. So at the beginning there are ICO which doesn't require any KYC's but when the tokens are about to distributed, other's suddenly asking for KYC's just to make sure that they are following all regulations and they need to adapt, otherwise if might have a big implications later. Its just sad though that it was not intimated at the very beginning so that investors or bounty hunters not comfortable sharing their personal data will not invest or join that ICO project.



Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 29, 2018, 07:47:42 PM
In addition to what others have said, usually they have legal experts who they seek advise. So at the beginning there are ICO which doesn't require any KYC's but when the tokens are about to distributed, other's suddenly asking for KYC's just to make sure that they are following all regulations and they need to adapt, otherwise if might have a big implications later. Its just sad though that it was not intimated at the very beginning so that investors or bounty hunters not comfortable sharing their personal data will not invest or join that ICO project.


ARe you saying that most ICOs dont start with KYC and AML; they do it later?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 29, 2018, 09:23:15 PM
Have you heard of OST KYC? If so, what are your thoughts?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: inday14344 on August 30, 2018, 07:49:06 AM
Thanks for the information everyone. Why do some ICOs restrict the US and certain territories?

Because in some territories ICOs are either illegal or legal grey areas.

For example as soon as founders allow US citizens to take part in an ICO, without actively seeking out the SEC's approval or abiding its regulation, the SEC will have a close eye on them; legal problems being almost assured regardless of the founder's country of origin or operation.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 30, 2018, 08:10:14 AM
Thanks for the information everyone. Why do some ICOs restrict the US and certain territories?

Because in some territories ICOs are either illegal or legal grey areas.

For example as soon as founders allow US citizens to take part in an ICO, without actively seeking out the SEC's approval or abiding its regulation, the SEC will have a close eye on them; legal problems being almost assured regardless of the founder's country of origin or operation.
So would you say it's best to not allow U.S. Citizens to participate? How did Digitex Futures do their ICO and avoid scrutiny?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: bajigur894784 on August 30, 2018, 03:30:25 PM
The KYC or AML process is now standard practice for any legitimate ICO looking to raise funds. These processes not only benefit the project implementing them but also help to protect those with interests within the project.

Even though the crypto space is largely unregulated, it doesnít mean that we canít behave and conduct ourselves as any normally regulated sector. Itís all of our responsibility to ensure that we protect the ICO and crypto space as stakeholders. In order to do that, ICOs and projects need to implement a KYC or AML process.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 30, 2018, 04:02:56 PM
The KYC or AML process is now standard practice for any legitimate ICO looking to raise funds. These processes not only benefit the project implementing them but also help to protect those with interests within the project.

Even though the crypto space is largely unregulated, it doesnít mean that we canít behave and conduct ourselves as any normally regulated sector. Itís all of our responsibility to ensure that we protect the ICO and crypto space as stakeholders. In order to do that, ICOs and projects need to implement a KYC or AML process.
I agree, but wouldnt you say there are added risk to collecting data of users. Lets say the data gets breached; what's next? Wouldn't the company implementing the KYC/AML be held liable. Also, instead of doing kYC/AML why not just restrict the companies that require them; primarily US and China.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: fuding12 on August 30, 2018, 04:40:17 PM
AML / KYC compliance policies act as double edge swords; First, on the one hand, ICO helps to verify and validate their investor identity, document investor profiles, types of business and financial activities and finally assess potential risks for money laundering activities; keep the good side of the law.

On the other hand, the blockchain system encourages decentralized autonomy and has become the reason for many investors from various cadres who are interested in that in the first place. With privacy policies, regulations and identity verification, this potential whale is lost and causes losses in the financial resources of the ICO project concerned.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 30, 2018, 07:32:49 PM
AML / KYC compliance policies act as double edge swords; First, on the one hand, ICO helps to verify and validate their investor identity, document investor profiles, types of business and financial activities and finally assess potential risks for money laundering activities; keep the good side of the law.

On the other hand, the blockchain system encourages decentralized autonomy and has become the reason for many investors from various cadres who are interested in that in the first place. With privacy policies, regulations and identity verification, this potential whale is lost and causes losses in the financial resources of the ICO project concerned.
How was Digitex Futures successful without implementing KYC?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: magneto on August 31, 2018, 03:54:59 AM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

It depends on the country that the ICO is operating from, and the citizens that it is offering its investment scheme to (that's why you see some ICOs banning certain country's citizens to participate).

While I'm not sure what the exact procedures are, most legitimate ICOs nowadays in countries with more mature crypto ICO regulations will ask you for KYC docs such as your ID, as well as AML docs, perhaps fund sources.

At the end of the day, the ICO itself is probably not even in that much control when it comes to the collection of the docs. The regulators in each country decides whether these investments are legal, what they are classified under, and what procedures are.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Yaunfitda on August 31, 2018, 07:35:37 AM
The KYC or AML process is now standard practice for any legitimate ICO looking to raise funds. These processes not only benefit the project implementing them but also help to protect those with interests within the project.

Even though the crypto space is largely unregulated, it doesnít mean that we canít behave and conduct ourselves as any normally regulated sector. Itís all of our responsibility to ensure that we protect the ICO and crypto space as stakeholders. In order to do that, ICOs and projects need to implement a KYC or AML process.
I agree, but wouldnt you say there are added risk to collecting data of users. Lets say the data gets breached; what's next? Wouldn't the company implementing the KYC/AML be held liable. Also, instead of doing kYC/AML why not just restrict the companies that require them; primarily US and China.

Yes, there's a big risk on investors or even bounty hunters if ever such hacks occurs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/83ybwn/shady_dadi_ico_server_got_hacked_huge_data_breach/

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/02/07/sentinel-chain-ico-leak-passport/

Of course the project or company should be held accountable because you put trust in them that they are going to secure your personal data. I guess ICO than are requiring KYC now are making it more riskier on our end.

I think some ICO's are also doing some restrictions as well. You can't join if you are amongst the country they don't allowed.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 31, 2018, 09:17:00 AM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

It depends on the country that the ICO is operating from, and the citizens that it is offering its investment scheme to (that's why you see some ICOs banning certain country's citizens to participate).

While I'm not sure what the exact procedures are, most legitimate ICOs nowadays in countries with more mature crypto ICO regulations will ask you for KYC docs such as your ID, as well as AML docs, perhaps fund sources.

At the end of the day, the ICO itself is probably not even in that much control when it comes to the collection of the docs. The regulators in each country decides whether these investments are legal, what they are classified under, and what procedures are.
Would you recommend using a site such as OST KYC for this?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 31, 2018, 09:26:58 AM
The KYC or AML process is now standard practice for any legitimate ICO looking to raise funds. These processes not only benefit the project implementing them but also help to protect those with interests within the project.

Even though the crypto space is largely unregulated, it doesnít mean that we canít behave and conduct ourselves as any normally regulated sector. Itís all of our responsibility to ensure that we protect the ICO and crypto space as stakeholders. In order to do that, ICOs and projects need to implement a KYC or AML process.
I agree, but wouldnt you say there are added risk to collecting data of users. Lets say the data gets breached; what's next? Wouldn't the company implementing the KYC/AML be held liable. Also, instead of doing kYC/AML why not just restrict the companies that require them; primarily US and China.

Yes, there's a big risk on investors or even bounty hunters if ever such hacks occurs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/83ybwn/shady_dadi_ico_server_got_hacked_huge_data_breach/

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/02/07/sentinel-chain-ico-leak-passport/

Of course the project or company should be held accountable because you put trust in them that they are going to secure your personal data. I guess ICO than are requiring KYC now are making it more riskier on our end.

I think some ICO's are also doing some restrictions as well. You can't join if you are amongst the country they don't allowed.
Can't the risk be mitigated by offloading the KYC to a company such as OST KYC? So far doing my research, if KYC/AML is provided, it looks like all countries can participate with the exception of China. Am I correct?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Kemarit on August 31, 2018, 03:25:00 PM
In addition to what others have said, usually they have legal experts who they seek advise. So at the beginning there are ICO which doesn't require any KYC's but when the tokens are about to distributed, other's suddenly asking for KYC's just to make sure that they are following all regulations and they need to adapt, otherwise if might have a big implications later. Its just sad though that it was not intimated at the very beginning so that investors or bounty hunters not comfortable sharing their personal data will not invest or join that ICO project.


ARe you saying that most ICOs dont start with KYC and AML; they do it later?

Look at this, TV-TWO Signature Campaign: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2884232.0). No KYC was mentioned when they started their campaign.

And then their token bounty campaign can be found here; (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2617590.0)

Bounty has successfully ended. Thank you everyone for your support!

Dear Bounty Hunters,

We have received an updated opinion from our legal council that urges TV-TWO to perform KYC on all individuals and companies that receive our tokens. While this is nothing new concerning our investors, it does come as a surprise to us that this also covers any entity that participated in marketing and bounty activities. The change comes in light of new regulation that qualifies transferring tokens to sanctioned parties as aiding and abetting in criminal activity.

What does this mean? We need to ask any bounty hunter to complete the following KYC form on the TV-TWO website: https://tv-two.com/bounty.html (https://tv-two.com/bounty.html).
During the process, please enter the same Ethereum address that you have used in the bounty spreadsheets. Once your KYC is reviewed and approved, we will transfer the tokens that you have earned during the campaign to your wallet. Distribution starts on August 24.

But at the last minute specially when bounty hunters are waiting for their payments, they posted that so many bounty hunters are confused and disappointed because we all know that most of us doesn't want to give sensitive information like our passport.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on August 31, 2018, 06:02:20 PM
In addition to what others have said, usually they have legal experts who they seek advise. So at the beginning there are ICO which doesn't require any KYC's but when the tokens are about to distributed, other's suddenly asking for KYC's just to make sure that they are following all regulations and they need to adapt, otherwise if might have a big implications later. Its just sad though that it was not intimated at the very beginning so that investors or bounty hunters not comfortable sharing their personal data will not invest or join that ICO project.


ARe you saying that most ICOs dont start with KYC and AML; they do it later?

Look at this, TV-TWO Signature Campaign: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2884232.0). No KYC was mentioned when they started their campaign.

And then their token bounty campaign can be found here; (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2617590.0)

Bounty has successfully ended. Thank you everyone for your support!

Dear Bounty Hunters,

We have received an updated opinion from our legal council that urges TV-TWO to perform KYC on all individuals and companies that receive our tokens. While this is nothing new concerning our investors, it does come as a surprise to us that this also covers any entity that participated in marketing and bounty activities. The change comes in light of new regulation that qualifies transferring tokens to sanctioned parties as aiding and abetting in criminal activity.

What does this mean? We need to ask any bounty hunter to complete the following KYC form on the TV-TWO website: https://tv-two.com/bounty.html (https://tv-two.com/bounty.html).
During the process, please enter the same Ethereum address that you have used in the bounty spreadsheets. Once your KYC is reviewed and approved, we will transfer the tokens that you have earned during the campaign to your wallet. Distribution starts on August 24.

But at the last minute specially when bounty hunters are waiting for their payments, they posted that so many bounty hunters are confused and disappointed because we all know that most of us doesn't want to give sensitive information like our passport.
I don't think thats a good luck for them to implement KYC after the fact. What are your thoughts? Would you have still been a bounty if you needed to perform KYC?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Kemarit on September 02, 2018, 10:16:17 PM
Depends on the individual. But I do believed that majority of us doesn't want to share our private data right? So I think those people will likely won't join that bounty the minute KYC is being enforced. Again, you can't blame them though, because it was a last minute changes and no one is expecting it. I suggest you follow that bounty and see how it goes for the participants (willing to submit to KYC in order to get their tokens, or not take the risk of giving their passports.)


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: KrishaBitcoin on September 03, 2018, 12:19:24 AM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

If the Bitcoin currency on that place of their project address or registry is legal in which KYC and AML is part of their regulation policies then all ICOs will need to comply or their ICO project will be branded as illegal to operate. Therefore it will be determine on which country they where belong.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: romarry on September 03, 2018, 07:18:27 AM
In some cases, more and more ICOs consider voluntary compliance with Know Your Customer (KYC) and Anti-Money Laundering (AML) regulations for various reasons. including to establish credibility with the Bank.

In other words, strong KYC during the tokens making event will make it easier to work with banks and follow AML regulations. Voluntary fulfillment in sign sales seems to give the project a legitimate stamp. Many prospective regulators seem to be open to selling tokens provided the law "knows your customers" are obeyed.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: richminded on September 03, 2018, 08:29:16 AM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

If the Bitcoin currency on that place of their project address or registry is legal in which KYC and AML is part of their regulation policies then all ICOs will need to comply or their ICO project will be branded as illegal to operate. Therefore it will be determine on which country they where belong.
That's right most of the purpose of every ICO asking for KYC is this, because some country are restricted to participate. But you still need to be careful because some project ask for your KYC for the purpose of scamming. Those legit ICO will usually ask for you KYC and AML now so they will know if the investors are qualified to own their token, its actually good for the both side so don't be scared filling up that one if the project is good.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on September 03, 2018, 05:54:14 PM
Should I implement KYC/AML and do it myself or should I work with a trusted company to do so? I think that doing it myself will have a risk for the business in case of a hack, whereas using a company that has experience doing it is much secure.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Kemarit on September 04, 2018, 04:20:38 PM
Should I implement KYC/AML and do it myself or should I work with a trusted company to do so? I think that doing it myself will have a risk for the business in case of a hack, whereas using a company that has experience doing it is much secure.

Crypto platform is not very safe and even if you used a company which is so called secure, there's a possibility that they could crack it as well. Just look at how many exchanges are very hack, any project should not do a KYC/AML all they have to do is implement restrictions, they can even banned IP for restricted countries if they doesn't want to have a legal issues later and scrutiny from regulatory bodies. IMHO.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: Theb on September 04, 2018, 04:48:26 PM
Depends on the individual. But I do believed that majority of us doesn't want to share our private data right? So I think those people will likely won't join that bounty the minute KYC is being enforced. Again, you can't blame them though, because it was a last minute changes and no one is expecting it. I suggest you follow that bounty and see how it goes for the participants (willing to submit to KYC in order to get their tokens, or not take the risk of giving their passports.)
What sucks here the most are ICOs who don't disclose or mention anything about KYC during their pre-sale but after the TGE took place they will suddenly have a KYC requirement before they even send the tokens you have bought from them. I remembered in one of the Telegrams group of the ICO I participated in thousands of the members got shocked and furious at the same time that they are suddenly requiring KYCs out of nowhere and it took awhile for us to receive our tokens. They somehow hide the fact from people that KYC is an important step for you to receive the tokens you have bought from them during the token sale. This is probably why they hide the KYC requirement in the first place as it is highly unappealing to a lot of people.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: dunfida on September 04, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
Depends on the individual. But I do believed that majority of us doesn't want to share our private data right? So I think those people will likely won't join that bounty the minute KYC is being enforced. Again, you can't blame them though, because it was a last minute changes and no one is expecting it. I suggest you follow that bounty and see how it goes for the participants (willing to submit to KYC in order to get their tokens, or not take the risk of giving their passports.)
What sucks here the most are ICOs who don't disclose or mention anything about KYC during their pre-sale but after the TGE took place they will suddenly have a KYC requirement before they even send the tokens you have bought from them. I remembered in one of the Telegrams group of the ICO I participated in thousands of the members got shocked and furious at the same time that they are suddenly requiring KYCs out of nowhere and it took awhile for us to receive our tokens. They somehow hide the fact from people that KYC is an important step for you to receive the tokens you have bought from them during the token sale. This is probably why they hide the KYC requirement in the first place as it is highly unappealing to a lot of people.
This is what somehow a strategy nowadays for those ICO which they do hide it out on earlier phase just to deceived investors that they aren't requiring any KYC and actually I had experienced the same thing too where Ive been too confident on investing because I know theres no such verification needed into its investors but in the end they do ask out for you to claim your tokens which is really shocking on investors side.
You would really be put up on a situation which you wont really have any choice but to comply it since you already invested.If you do see that those tokens are really worth then you would comply it but if not then better leave it if you cant afford to give out your own informations.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on September 04, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
Should I implement KYC/AML and do it myself or should I work with a trusted company to do so? I think that doing it myself will have a risk for the business in case of a hack, whereas using a company that has experience doing it is much secure.

Crypto platform is not very safe and even if you used a company which is so called secure, there's a possibility that they could crack it as well. Just look at how many exchanges are very hack, any project should not do a KYC/AML all they have to do is implement restrictions, they can even banned IP for restricted countries if they doesn't want to have a legal issues later and scrutiny from regulatory bodies. IMHO.
So you're suggesting not doing KYC/AML and just banning IPs of certain countries? What are the pros and cons of doing such a thing?


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on September 04, 2018, 08:49:32 PM
Depends on the individual. But I do believed that majority of us doesn't want to share our private data right? So I think those people will likely won't join that bounty the minute KYC is being enforced. Again, you can't blame them though, because it was a last minute changes and no one is expecting it. I suggest you follow that bounty and see how it goes for the participants (willing to submit to KYC in order to get their tokens, or not take the risk of giving their passports.)
What sucks here the most are ICOs who don't disclose or mention anything about KYC during their pre-sale but after the TGE took place they will suddenly have a KYC requirement before they even send the tokens you have bought from them. I remembered in one of the Telegrams group of the ICO I participated in thousands of the members got shocked and furious at the same time that they are suddenly requiring KYCs out of nowhere and it took awhile for us to receive our tokens. They somehow hide the fact from people that KYC is an important step for you to receive the tokens you have bought from them during the token sale. This is probably why they hide the KYC requirement in the first place as it is highly unappealing to a lot of people.
This is what somehow a strategy nowadays for those ICO which they do hide it out on earlier phase just to deceived investors that they aren't requiring any KYC and actually I had experienced the same thing too where Ive been too confident on investing because I know theres no such verification needed into its investors but in the end they do ask out for you to claim your tokens which is really shocking on investors side.
You would really be put up on a situation which you wont really have any choice but to comply it since you already invested.If you do see that those tokens are really worth then you would comply it but if not then better leave it if you cant afford to give out your own informations.
Check out Digitex's term and conditions https://digitexfutures.com/terms-and-conditions/ (https://digitexfutures.com/terms-and-conditions/) They decided not to implement KYC/AML, but rather mentioned that US residents shouldnt participate. Is this sufficient enough? Do you see any legal issues with that?

You represent and warrant that you are not a resident or domiciliary of the United States of America or purchasing DGTX TOKENS from a location in the United States of America, nor are you an entity (including but not limited to any corporation or partnership) incorporated, established or registered in or under the laws of the United States of America, nor are you purchasing DGTX TOKENS on behalf of any such person or entity;


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: timerland on September 06, 2018, 12:17:12 AM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

The main thing is the regulation in the country that the project is operative in.

Search up some information from the SEC or the SEC equivalent in your country which deals with cryptocurrency securities regulation. If they require ICOs to register their investors and produce KYC/AML documents on them, then you definitely should do some to be compliant.

Based on current trends, I'd say that's probably a lot, if not most countries.

On a side note, perhaps also consider who your investors are. Many ICOs reject investors from certain countries because of regulations.


Title: Re: Determinations of KYC and AML
Post by: virtualinvestor770 on September 06, 2018, 01:45:15 AM
What determines if an ICO requires KYC and AML?

The main thing is the regulation in the country that the project is operative in.

Search up some information from the SEC or the SEC equivalent in your country which deals with cryptocurrency securities regulation. If they require ICOs to register their investors and produce KYC/AML documents on them, then you definitely should do some to be compliant.

Based on current trends, I'd say that's probably a lot, if not most countries.

On a side note, perhaps also consider who your investors are. Many ICOs reject investors from certain countries because of regulations.
Why not just put a disclaimer on the website saying that certain countries shouldn't participate. If that person does then they are there ones to face legal issue, not the company