Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: mizerydearia on October 25, 2011, 06:05:25 PM



Title: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: mizerydearia on October 25, 2011, 06:05:25 PM
Imp Note: HumansMen aren't perfect <- Sexism

Quote
Sorry to be sending e-mail to the Mt.Gox leak list.

Please be advised that a recent e-mail purporting to be from me regarding Casascius Physical
Bitcoins is fake and leads to a phishing site.  Don't give out your info unless you're sure you're
at the right place.

The real Casascius Physical Bitcoins website is at https://www.casascius.com.
If you do not know how to verify my PGP signature, consider looking me up on the forums to make
sure you have the right address and are not being phished.

Sorry for the hassle and the inconvenience, but I suppose this was going to happen sooner or later.

Mike Caldwell

Note: I received this email three times. O_O
If you received it 3 times, it means you had 3 accounts at MtGox... =)  I only sent it once.

Hint: I never received a phishing email most likely because I was not affiliated with the collection of email addresses that were sent phishing emails.

Note: Casascius (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2676) is real human existence (that frequents freenode irc network) and has contributed stuffs (https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=casascius), however, this particular email seems a tad bit obnoxious.  Although, at least he apologized.

Musical Note: http://councilfestival.com/musical_note.gif

Consulting with Casascius on freenode IRC network he confirmed that email is authentic and from him.

I shall try this, one for each of my projects, and of course, provide an apology to excuse my sending to thousands of emails to propagate the message that contains links to each of the projects. ^_^  It shall be very effective without any backlash, eh?  Yay traffic to my websites!



Perhaps there could be a better way to reach large audience of bitcoiners than relying on leaked email lists to better propagate these types of informations in a way that is more solicited/expected/desired?  Maybe someone can establish a site/service for this particular purpose?


Title: Re: Obnoxious Casascius Spam (hint: /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 casascius.com)
Post by: casascius on October 25, 2011, 06:20:24 PM
It appeared that the leaked e-mail list was targeted, and that's why I sent to it.  I certainly do understand that receiving the e-mail is obnoxious.  I suppose I have to weigh it against how obnoxious it is to hear about people getting scammed.

It should be obvious I hate spam as much as the next guy, and I feel I'm running the gauntlet even trying that (with respect to my ISP).

If you received it 3 times, it means you had 3 accounts at MtGox... =)  I only sent it once.


Title: Re: Obnoxious Casascius Spam (hint: /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 casascius.com)
Post by: I.Goldstein on October 25, 2011, 06:27:51 PM
I stand by Casascius and his actions. The inconvenience from a soliciting email is arbitrary compared to the potential theft that could from being a client to casascius.net.

I thank him for being responsible and vigilant. Shine on you crazy diamond.


Title: Re: Obnoxious Casascius Spam (hint: /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 casascius.com)
Post by: xxxcoin on October 25, 2011, 06:32:21 PM
I also did receive the email from casascius "warning" me about the fraudulent site, but I did not receive any other emails from the leak list that is supposedly being spammed.

 ???


Title: Re: update: casascius.com is GOOD / casascius.net is EVIL
Post by: mizerydearia on October 25, 2011, 06:32:28 PM
Within minutes of collaborating regarding this issue and establishing better understanding of the issue, although it may seem a bit obnoxious to have received the email as I had referenced/suggested in my initial post, I do agree that it is helpful to better spread awareness of this concern/issue.  I have changed topic (in my own way) to reflect better reality of what is important: that there is a fraudulent site still that may trick/deceive/scam users and that they should avoid it.

Add to your hosts file:
Code:
0.0.0.0 casascius.net


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: xxxcoin on October 25, 2011, 06:41:47 PM
So it is acceptable then that an unsolicited email was sent out to a hacked list "warning" people of a fraudulent site?

I received the email but it was not wanted by me, I did not ask to be notified about this and never did I provide my email address for this purpose to the sender.
It was also completely irrelevant to me since I have not used either site nor would I have planned to.


Quote
I shall try this, one for each of my projects, and of course, provide an apology to excuse my sending to thousands of emails to propagate the message that contains links to each of the projects. ^_^  It shall be very effective without any backlash, eh?  Yay traffic to my websites!
Exactly.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Inaba on October 25, 2011, 06:48:27 PM
This is bullshit.  I received a blatant marketing email (and nothing else) from this site.  After examining the headers, it's clearly from his site and sent from him.  Not hacked, not fake, not phishing.  A pure, unadulterated spam email sent to the leaked MT Gox list.  

This guy is a spammer and should be painted as such.  No one should do business with him and he should be fair game for being ripped off left and right to pay for his spam.  I charge $1500 per spam piece for reading, so he owes me $1500... whatever else other people charge, that's what he owes if he wants to pay for my time of reading garbage and using my bandwidth and hard drive space to store the email on my servers.

Just a point of reference:

Mail was sent from 62.76.188.230, casascius.net resolves to that IP address.  


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Raoul Duke on October 25, 2011, 06:49:23 PM
Wanna know something funny... The scammer used a Google Analytics code in his site, so maybe contacting Google to shut his account down and report him as a phishing site to his host and registrar can at least take the site down.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: casascius on October 25, 2011, 06:52:22 PM
This is bullshit.  I received a blatant marketing email (and nothing else) from this site.  After examining the headers, it's clearly from his site and sent from him.  Not hacked, not fake, not phishing.  A pure, unadulterated spam email sent to the leaked MT Gox list.  

This guy is a spammer and should be painted as such.  No one should do business with him and he should be fair game for being ripped off left and right to pay for his spam.  I charge $1500 per spam piece for reading, so he owes me $1500... whatever else other people charge, that's what he owes if he wants to pay for my time of reading garbage and using my bandwidth and hard drive space to store the email on my servers.

Just a point of reference:

Mail was sent from 62.76.188.230, casascius.net resolves to that IP address.  

And that's the scammer site...  the real one is casascius.com and 50.73.45.250


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Gavin Andresen on October 25, 2011, 06:54:24 PM
I think Casascius did the right thing.

He has no way of knowing how many people got the phishing email, and no other way of contacting people who might fall for the scam.

If you're upset because you have to poke the 'delete' button on your email one extra time... then I think you're overreacting.



Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: molecular on October 25, 2011, 06:58:34 PM
So it is acceptable then that an unsolicited email was sent out to a hacked list "warning" people of a fraudulent site?

I received the email but it was not wanted by me, I did not ask to be notified about this and never did I provide my email address for this purpose to the sender.
It was also completely irrelevant to me since I have not used either site nor would I have planned to.

Oh come on, I think it's ok to warn people. Don't be so uptight. Complain to magicaltux about all spam ;)


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: molecular on October 25, 2011, 07:00:33 PM
This is bullshit.  I received a blatant marketing email (and nothing else) from this site.  After examining the headers, it's clearly from his site and sent from him.  Not hacked, not fake, not phishing.  A pure, unadulterated spam email sent to the leaked MT Gox list.  

This guy is a spammer and should be painted as such.  No one should do business with him and he should be fair game for being ripped off left and right to pay for his spam.  I charge $1500 per spam piece for reading, so he owes me $1500... whatever else other people charge, that's what he owes if he wants to pay for my time of reading garbage and using my bandwidth and hard drive space to store the email on my servers.

Just a point of reference:

Mail was sent from 62.76.188.230, casascius.net resolves to that IP address.  

You're still adressing the wrong person here. casascius.com is 50.73.45.250.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Inaba on October 25, 2011, 07:00:56 PM
Don't get me started on magicaltux and his inept security.  

I withdraw my previous statements in regards to casascius.com since .net is located in Russia and .com is in Utah.  I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt in this instance.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Vandroiy on October 25, 2011, 07:07:48 PM
Thanks for the warning! These days, I could use a browser addon that warns when hosts are in countries like Russia (as this one).

All this scamming has become a massive annoyance. This is one of the cases where we could have another organization funded with Bitcoin, Job: gather donations, select a scammer at random, trace, attack (report to police, DoS, hack, whatever). Post results. Just for the heck of it.

They never got me so far, still, if I ever happen to identify one of these people, they will not have a nice time with me.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Inaba on October 25, 2011, 07:09:01 PM
I think Casascius did the right thing.

He has no way of knowing how many people got the phishing email, and no other way of contacting people who might fall for the scam.

If you're upset because you have to poke the 'delete' button on your email one extra time... then I think you're overreacting.



You would be wrong, then.  He may have no way of knowing how many people got a phishing email, but he also has no responsibility to protect people from making stupid mistakes.  What he DOES have a responsibility to do is be a good net citizen and NOT spam people.  In this, apparently, he failed.  Much less egregious than commercial spamming, but no less irresponsible.

Your attitude of "IF you're upset because you have to poke delete button on your email one extra time" is exactly the reason we have so much spam.  You are the type of person that makes spam possible.  You just ignore it instead of actively combating it.  You and that attitude towards spam contributes to the problem.  If no one took that attitude, we've had made much more significant inroads into migrating to a more secure email protocol... but instead, it's too much trouble for people like you, so you just "deal" with it.  Your apathy causes spam.

And as a point of fact, it's not "just pressing delete one more time," billions upon billions of spam is sent each day.  That is billions of "pressing deletes" and it is a large portion of bandwidth and a significant portion of storage space.  You clearly have never had to manage a large scale email system.  Let those of us who have to deal with the aggregate consequences of spam make the decisions as to what constitutes over-reacting.




Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: molecular on October 25, 2011, 07:13:50 PM
Don't get me started on magicaltux and his inept security.  

I withdraw my previous statements in regards to casascius.com since .net is located in Russia and .com is in Utah.  I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt in this instance.


Cool. Thanks for being reasonable. After reading your harsh language I didn't expect this. Kudos for still being able to think in an agitated state.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: molecular on October 25, 2011, 07:15:48 PM
Thanks for the warning! These days, I could use a browser addon that warns when hosts are in countries like Russia (as this one).

Actually: wouldn't it be real easy to detect this mtgox-related spam? Just make a central place and have 5 people forward md5sums of all their emails. If they all receive that mail, it's most likely spam to that list, rigth?

Is there a system for this kind of thing?


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Vandroiy on October 25, 2011, 07:16:37 PM
Mail was sent from 62.76.188.230, casascius.net resolves to that IP address.  

This is confusing. The spammer is warning about himself?

Maybe he's switched to troll mode now and is replicating the warning email so people flame about casascius spamming?

Oh, whatever. I just got two of the physical Bitcoins, they're awesome. I'm considering buying a bunch of them, so the fraudster site was really dangerous for me. So I appreciate the warning (even though I never received it per email).



Think about it this way: between an advantage of a fraudster or casascius, there is no doubt what should be put preference. These physical coins are a huge marketing boost for Bitcoin, it would suck if a scammer were to ruin that business.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: molecular on October 25, 2011, 07:20:36 PM
Mail was sent from 62.76.188.230, casascius.net resolves to that IP address.  

This is confusing. The spammer is warning about himself?

No, I think Inaba was still talking about the first, original spam message.


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Wody on October 25, 2011, 07:28:26 PM
Dear casascius.

Today I found in my email a spam coming from your website and IP-address, advertising for your website casascius.com. Sending such unsollicited email to people in my country is a crime. In addition, because of costs of spam for me, I also charge per spam, feel free to pay the bill by sending 100 bitcoin to: 1DESYhdFBUdQyTWBpLif6BQdr3FRcKBHWL


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Inaba on October 25, 2011, 07:30:55 PM
Yes, that IP is for the original spam message.  I never received anything but the spam.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: mizerydearia on October 25, 2011, 07:37:52 PM
http://i.imgur.com/MxdIb.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/dj6QR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wbpND.gif


Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: mizerydearia on October 25, 2011, 07:44:15 PM
Dear mizerydearia,

This is obnoxious. ^_^
Dear Inaba,

This is obnoxious. ^_^

I charge $1500 per spam piece for reading, so he owes me $1500... whatever else other people charge, that's what he owes if he wants to pay for my time of reading garbage and using my bandwidth and hard drive space to store the email on my servers.

l3estest l2egardedsness,
Miz

Dear Wody,

This is obnoxious. ^_^

Dear casascius.

Today I found in my email a spam coming from your website and IP-address, advertising for your website casascius.com. Sending such unsollicited email to people in my country is a crime. In addition, because of costs of spam for me, I also charge per spam, feel free to pay the bill by sending 100 bitcoin to: 1DESYhdFBUdQyTWBpLif6BQdr3FRcKBHWL


l3estest l2egardedsness,
Miz
l3estest l2egardedsness,
Miz


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: xxxcoin on October 25, 2011, 07:56:06 PM
It's not very hard to set up a server in another country, hide info and then claim rogue.

I am not saying this is the case, but I think a lot of people need to refresh themselves on what "spam" is (and not the meat).

Unsolicited, bulk email = Spam.



Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Inaba on October 25, 2011, 07:58:55 PM
It's not very hard to set up a server in another country, hide info and then claim rogue.

I am not saying this is the case, but I think a lot of people need to refresh themselves on what "spam" is (and not the meat).

Unsolicited, bulk email = Spam.



I agree, which is why I said I'd give him the benefit of the doubt in this instance.  In either case, he's innocent or the backlash will have likely taught a lesson.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Hawkix on October 25, 2011, 09:41:29 PM
I filled the form on SCAM PHISHING site (.net) with BOGUS info, and I got this BTC address where the phished BTC should go:

1GHRsryckBsSfKgv6zbun5egbxq8GCT8f1

According to blockexplorer, there is already 33.64 BTC received a few hours ago. So, it looks someone got phished already.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: molecular on October 25, 2011, 10:32:26 PM
I filled the form on SCAM PHISHING site (.net) with BOGUS info, and I got this BTC address where the phished BTC should go:

1GHRsryckBsSfKgv6zbun5egbxq8GCT8f1

According to blockexplorer, there is already 33.64 BTC received a few hours ago. So, it looks someone got phished already.


He's putting it all on one address? Wouldn't have done that.

I did the same thing and can confirm it's really displaying the same address: 1GHRsryckBsSfKgv6zbun5egbxq8GCT8f1

Only one transaction on that address for 33.64 BTC, poor guy that fell for it :(


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: molecular on October 25, 2011, 10:35:39 PM
I seriously think this is nothing more than just a Marketing Plan to do exactly what has happened. Generates hits and traffic to Casascius.com. make people virally  aware of Physical Bitcoins, Rank on BitcoinX.com....

and allow plausible denial of course.

Interesting the "Phishing Site" has now disappeared.

Brilliant!

It has not disappeared.

I find the explanation that the scammer is someone else much more plausible.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: mizerydearia on October 25, 2011, 10:37:46 PM
I seriously think this is nothing more than just a Marketing Plan to do exactly what has happened. Generates hits and traffic to Casascius.com. make people virally  aware of Physical Bitcoins, Rank on BitcoinX.com....

and allow plausible denial of course.

Interesting the "Phishing Site" has now disappeared.

Brilliant!

Perhaps you seriously think other things too, such as that this is not nothing more than just a marketing plan (lowercased because it seems strange to uppercase this phrase) to do exactly what has happened.  In the case that you do think about this and/or other things, you should consider letting this forum know of those such thoughts as well so as to not withhold such informations derived from yuor thoughts. ^_^


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: casascius on October 25, 2011, 11:03:24 PM
If I was going to spam, why wouldn't I just put my YouTube videos back up or make more of them?  They were receiving plenty of hits as it is, before I took them down.  Far more than the number of email addresses in the MtGox database.  How about Google Adwords?  (if I have 50 BTC at $5/ea for purple paint VIP in the forum, surely I can afford it?).  If I really want to get serious, I could start accepting Visa/MC (no reason why I couldn't - I'm able to get one for my SwipeClock software business - just haven't bothered, haven't focused on it).  I hadn't even bothered to put up a "like" button (thanks scammer for the idea).

Your left brain is right in that if I wanted to go to elaborate lengths, from an information-theoretical perspective I could have orchestrated all of this, gone all the way to Russia for a VPN, all for a plausible excuse to turn around and send you a spam e-mail from my own IP.  But if your right brain is smart too, you probably realize it's not very likely given a little common sense.  These coins are a hobby project to promote Bitcoin and do not pay my bills.  I have much better things to do with my time than spam marketing.


Title: Re: Obnoxious Casascius Spam (hint: /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 casascius.com)
Post by: ErgoOne on October 26, 2011, 02:45:50 AM
It appeared that the leaked e-mail list was targeted, and that's why I sent to it.  I certainly do understand that receiving the e-mail is obnoxious.  I suppose I have to weigh it against how obnoxious it is to hear about people getting scammed.

It should be obvious I hate spam as much as the next guy, and I feel I'm running the gauntlet even trying that (with respect to my ISP).

If you received it 3 times, it means you had 3 accounts at MtGox... =)  I only sent it once.

I got one of your emails, and so far one scam spam that matches the description you gave in your emails. Technically what you did (really did, not the scam emails) was spam.  It was unsolicited bulk email.  While there might have been a better way to deal with this than send out that big email blast, however, I'd be hard put to consider somebody who just wanted to warn people about a scam or phish a bad guy.  (And I'm a hardcore antispam activist with a LONG track record in antispam.)  Announcing the scam here would notify some people, but a lot of the Mt. Gox client base doesn't participate in this forum much.  (Some of those who did got disillusioned after loosing a bunch of bitcoins in earlier frauds and wandered off.)  It's hard to imagine how to contact them all in any other way.

My condolences.  This isn't fun, I know. :/




Title: Re: update: casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: RandyFolds on October 26, 2011, 03:18:00 AM
This is bullshit.  I received a blatant marketing email (and nothing else) from this site.  After examining the headers, it's clearly from his site and sent from him.  Not hacked, not fake, not phishing.  A pure, unadulterated spam email sent to the leaked MT Gox list.  

This guy is a spammer and should be painted as such.  No one should do business with him and he should be fair game for being ripped off left and right to pay for his spam.  I charge $1500 per spam piece for reading, so he owes me $1500... whatever else other people charge, that's what he owes if he wants to pay for my time of reading garbage and using my bandwidth and hard drive space to store the email on my servers.

Just a point of reference:

Mail was sent from 62.76.188.230, casascius.net resolves to that IP address.  

Can you read?

I seriously think this is nothing more than just a Marketing Plan to do exactly what has happened. Generates hits and traffic to Casascius.com. make people virally  aware of Physical Bitcoins, Rank on BitcoinX.com....

and allow plausible denial of course.

Interesting the "Phishing Site" has now disappeared.


Brilliant!

Or it could have been a bunch of people taking steps to report it...


Fucking A, it upsets me to see people bitching about getting an apologetic piece of spam to prevent them from being scammed. You are a bunch of douches.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: BurtW on October 26, 2011, 05:49:13 AM
If you check http://blockexplorer.com/address/1GHRsryckBsSfKgv6zbun5egbxq8GCT8f1 you can see that the scammers have now made 53.84 BTC (as of the time of this post).  I suspect they would have made even more if it were not for the quick action on Mike's part.  I know it was a difficult and painful decision for him to send out the warning email but I am glad he did.

Now how can this darn site be taken down?  Surely there are forum members here that know how to kill a phishing web site.  Just checked and it is still there and still taking orders.  How about my favorite alt chain killer BCX?  Can you apply some of your skills to kicking some phishing site's ass?


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: [Tycho] on October 26, 2011, 06:22:51 AM
I wonder if there will ever be a moment in time when most people will pay attention to HTTPS and related warnings in their browsers...


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: BitcoinPorn on October 26, 2011, 06:54:05 AM
Real or not, casascius should not have sent that email to cover up things with the corrected address.  I'm sure not an easy decision, but still the wrong one.

I can't wait to see what new scams will be birthed from the idea that the general public are okay with this apology, we all have casascius in our mind, and if we were thinking about getting a coin before, we now are faced with the decision to not get one anymore, I am in that camp.  Or we buy one and think casascius is such a great guy for doing the right thing.       Still, can't wait to see this system being abused since people here seem to not mind the make up apology email, and from a marketing stand point, it now seems there is no better email to send.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: casascius on October 26, 2011, 07:25:14 AM
Real or not, casascius should not have sent that email to cover up things with the corrected address.  I'm sure not an easy decision, but still the wrong one.

The wrong one for any particular reason?  Or just because you state it is so, despite what appears to be the majority here disagreeing.  I am not sure I buy the slippery slope argument - as though somehow my warning leads to legitimizing Viagra and fake diploma spam.  The vast majority of responses to my message were appreciative.  You'd accept an unsolicited e-mail from your kid's school if it burned down, I assume, right?  How about if it was an Amber alert, where the odds of you encountering the missing kid are about 1000000:1.  There are circumstances that warrant it, and I am appreciative that most here seem to agree with the judgment call I made.  I hate spam too.

If there is anything I should have done differently, I should have avoided putting a link to my website in my message, so there was no possibility of it being construed as a veiled ad.  I could say I'll remember that for next time, but I'm not a habitual spammer and am not anticipating there ever being a next time.



Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: RandyFolds on October 26, 2011, 07:26:20 AM
Real or not, casascius should not have sent that email to cover up things with the corrected address.  I'm sure not an easy decision, but still the wrong one.

I can't wait to see what new scams will be birthed from the idea that the general public are okay with this apology, we all have casascius in our mind, and if we were thinking about getting a coin before, we now are faced with the decision to not get one anymore, I am in that camp.  Or we buy one and think casascius is such a great guy for doing the right thing.       Still, can't wait to see this system being abused since people here seem to not mind the make up apology email, and from a marketing stand point, it now seems there is no better email to send.

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand what happened here, at least by the account in this thread.

Cover up?


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: casascius on October 26, 2011, 07:27:24 AM

My theory is, if you are stupid enough to be scammed by Casascius.net and don't pay attention to URL's especially when it involves BTC, you are too stupid to own them and deserve to be ripped off. That's why I say MyBitcoin was a huge success from one point of view. A brilliant exploit of a lot of very stupid people.

Digital Darwinism and nothing more.

How was someone supposed to know the site was fake just by the URL?


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: BitcoinPorn on October 26, 2011, 07:36:02 AM
The wrong one for any particular reason?

Things are right or wrong.  The shade of grey is the fact that you took action that you felt was right, good intentions, makes for a good grey area that scammers seem to like to have sex with.  Do not think I am accusing you of anything with my post, I honestly believe you were left with that choice to cover up your own name with information readily available on how to contact all the people that were just contacted with false info.   I assure you I could care less about one piece of email that I wouldn't have opened anyways.  Which I checked, it seems the initial email I got was sent to junk, along with your follow up email, so seeing them is a non-issue.  

It is one of those in the overall scheme of things, this was not the right thing to do, overall.  This specific case, seems like everything is working out well enough.

"If there is anything I should have done differently, I should have avoided putting a link to my website in my message, so there was no possibility of it being construed as a veiled ad."  I agree with this.  This alone would have made this thread possibly non existent.

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand what happened here, at least by the account in this thread.

Cover up?

I disagree, I think you misunderstand my post or you are in denial of the possible implications of seeing this apology email going off so successfully in the public.  

Anyways, cover up to what?  I am not sure what your reply is trying to state.  Tell me a tale.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: mizerydearia on October 26, 2011, 11:18:08 AM
casascius.net is redirecting me to casascius.com  :o

It shouldn't be so surprising.  Consider the idea that the person behind the domain is aware of this thread, realizes that they are only half-evil (e.g. greyhat/grayhat) and decided their evil ploy was foiled/discovered immediately and decided to abandon it and work on other evil ploys....and in addition to abandoning it, they also courteously prepared a quick fix to redirect to the original domain.

Also...

Some of those who did got disillusioned after loosing a bunch of bitcoins in earlier frauds and wandered off.

loosing?   seriously?  wtf is happening..  It's been liek a month since I have seen someone correctly spell "losing."



Fucking A, it upsets me to see people bitching about getting an apologetic piece of spam to prevent them from being scammed. You are a bunch of douches.

Upon initialization of this thread, I was under the assumption/presumption/idea that there was no spam.  This was based on my personalized reality that I had not received any phishing spam and in anticipation of perhaps later realizing that there was or wasn't such spam as to be reported or not by others.  And less than five minutes later after initiating the thread, I learned that that was a case of phishing in relation to casasacius and without censoring or modifying (too much) my initial post (I did change the topic a bit), I shifted the focus/message to be more accurately depicting.  Of course, there were a few others that also took similar approach as mine in which they jumped to conclusions, in which their jumpages may not have provided additional considerations of their conclusions being inaccurate or obnoxious.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: mizerydearia on October 26, 2011, 12:09:43 PM
It is one of those in the overall scheme of things, this was not the right thing to do, overall.  This specific case, seems like everything is working out well enough.

It could be argued that this statement is incorrect in the sense that had casascius not massly propagated this issue throughout all intertubes connecting all bitcoiners (in this case via emails only), then this would not have been as noticed as it has been and the following may have had continued:

- http://casascius.net/ still existing as phishing site and NOT redirecting to https://casascius.com/ and  providing opportunity for additional fraudulent revenue  (note that the .net domain is still managed by the phisher and at any time could cease redirecting to .com domain)

Perhaps the concern is more about the content of the mass email than the intent of the mass email.  This may be more accurately recognized in consideration of my similar efforts in which I emailed ALL THE HACKERSPACES and messaged ALL THEIR IRC CHANS asking a simple/short question or providing a simple short statement suggestive/asking if they've heard about the european bitcoin conference next month.  Most of the hackerspaces were appreciative of my spreading awareness and even offered to relay to mailing lists, etc. and were not defensive or expressing of dissatisfaction for such unsolicited technology-related informations/news.  Also, similarly my effort towards Bitcoin Around the World (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47057.0) in which I unsolicitedly messaged all non-usian IRCers with short message similar to "hiya.  have you noticed #bitcoin-xx?  that is all ^_^ *waves*" were mostly accepted/appreciated since many of the individuals didn't realize there were others from their country or even forums, mining pools, exchanges, etc for their country.  (note: there were a few that backlashed/raged* similarly as to this experience here, but they were obnoxious minority)



Let's evaluate what casascius's mistakes were:

Sorry to be sending e-mail to the Mt.Gox leak list. (unnecessary/obnoxious)

Please be advised that a recent e-mail purporting to be from me regarding Casascius Physical
Bitcoins is fake and leads to a phishing site.  Don't give out your info unless you're sure you're
at the right place. (maybe okay, but perhaps could be stated more simply)

The real Casascius Physical Bitcoins website is at https://www.casascius.com. (This is the controversial part*)

If you do not know how to verify my PGP signature, consider looking me up on the forums to make
sure you have the right address and are not being phished. (unsure if this is acceptable or not)

Sorry for the hassle and the inconvenience, but I suppose this was going to happen sooner or later. (also unsure)

*controversial part: Is it better to link to the phishing site only?  the phishing site and the original/real site?  no links at all?  any reference to which site is the phishing site?  any reference to which is the real site?  is it acceptable to indicate which operation/site is being phished?



Also, the smallest of concerns/issues liek these...

small/family business: FUUUUUUUUUU, my business's reputation is declining...
corporation: *ignore until it costs more to ignore than to not ignore*


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Inaba on October 26, 2011, 01:05:45 PM
Real or not, casascius should not have sent that email to cover up things with the corrected address.  I'm sure not an easy decision, but still the wrong one.

The wrong one for any particular reason?  Or just because you state it is so, despite what appears to be the majority here disagreeing.  I am not sure I buy the slippery slope argument - as though somehow my warning leads to legitimizing Viagra and fake diploma spam.  The vast majority of responses to my message were appreciative.  You'd accept an unsolicited e-mail from your kid's school if it burned down, I assume, right?  How about if it was an Amber alert, where the odds of you encountering the missing kid are about 1000000:1.  There are circumstances that warrant it, and I am appreciative that most here seem to agree with the judgment call I made.  I hate spam too.

If there is anything I should have done differently, I should have avoided putting a link to my website in my message, so there was no possibility of it being construed as a veiled ad.  I could say I'll remember that for next time, but I'm not a habitual spammer and am not anticipating there ever being a next time.



It is wrong because you sent UBE (Spam), regardless of your reasoning.  If the email was not requested, you do not send it.  Plain and simple.  I would not accept UBE from my kids school and I sure as hell would not want any Amber Alerts (They are ridiculous and completely useless - the number of children found due to an Amber Alert (email or otherwise) can be counted on one hand and has cost tax payers millions and millions of dollars).  There are NO circumstances that warrant UBE.  None.  Ever.  So your decision to send some was wrong.

You seem to be under the impression that you somehow have/had a responsibility to protect people from their own stupidity.  That is an impossible task that has been proven time and again over the centuries.  This is the fundamental flaw in your logic/justification of sending out the UBE you sent - it's NOT your responsibility to police the internet.  If people click on a spam email to buy something, they deserve to be ripped off.  If they are too stupid to realize that it's a fake site, so be it.  They should not have been buying from a spammer in the first place.  If they did not do their due diligence to be sure the site was real, they deserve whatever they get.  That is the problem and that is why you sending out your email was wrong on every single level.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: xxxcoin on October 26, 2011, 03:14:46 PM
+1 Inaba


casascius.net is redirecting me to casascius.com  :o

Well isn't that awfully nice of a "scam" site to now redirect to the "real" site  ::)


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: RandyFolds on October 26, 2011, 05:36:20 PM
Real or not, casascius should not have sent that email to cover up things with the corrected address.  I'm sure not an easy decision, but still the wrong one.

The wrong one for any particular reason?  Or just because you state it is so, despite what appears to be the majority here disagreeing.  I am not sure I buy the slippery slope argument - as though somehow my warning leads to legitimizing Viagra and fake diploma spam.  The vast majority of responses to my message were appreciative.  You'd accept an unsolicited e-mail from your kid's school if it burned down, I assume, right?  How about if it was an Amber alert, where the odds of you encountering the missing kid are about 1000000:1.  There are circumstances that warrant it, and I am appreciative that most here seem to agree with the judgment call I made.  I hate spam too.

If there is anything I should have done differently, I should have avoided putting a link to my website in my message, so there was no possibility of it being construed as a veiled ad.  I could say I'll remember that for next time, but I'm not a habitual spammer and am not anticipating there ever being a next time.



It is wrong because you sent UBE (Spam), regardless of your reasoning.  If the email was not requested, you do not send it.  Plain and simple.  I would not accept UBE from my kids school and I sure as hell would not want any Amber Alerts (They are ridiculous and completely useless - the number of children found due to an Amber Alert (email or otherwise) can be counted on one hand and has cost tax payers millions and millions of dollars).  There are NO circumstances that warrant UBE.  None.  Ever.  So your decision to send some was wrong.

You seem to be under the impression that you somehow have/had a responsibility to protect people from their own stupidity.  That is an impossible task that has been proven time and again over the centuries.  This is the fundamental flaw in your logic/justification of sending out the UBE you sent - it's NOT your responsibility to police the internet.  If people click on a spam email to buy something, they deserve to be ripped off.  If they are too stupid to realize that it's a fake site, so be it.  They should not have been buying from a spammer in the first place.  If they did not do their due diligence to be sure the site was real, they deserve whatever they get.  That is the problem and that is why you sending out your email was wrong on every single level.


If you have kids, I really hope they are never kidnapped, with you holed up in a bunker screaming about unsolicited email and phone calls from their school and the police and your kids getting sold in thailand in the meantime. Your assumption about amber alert is also fucking retarded. There was just a guy who ran a kidnapper down this year in california...like, ran him down, yanked him from his car, kicked the shit out of him and saved some girl. He was fucking awesome. You are just a little bitch.

I really can't believe anyone is this stupid...seriously...like, full-on retarded...

...Hey Casacius, it's not your responsibility to protect the stupid, even though it's severely infringing upon your branding and hard work.

Inaba, maybe you should release a product call Mikerosoft Windows and tell the lawyers that call you, "it's cool, I am only scamming those too stupid to take care of themselves".


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: Nubarius on October 26, 2011, 06:37:52 PM
I have received the e-mail from Casascius, but not any of the phishing e-mails, which seems to indicate that the scammers haven't used the Mt. Gox leaked list of e-mail addresses. Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with what he has done, and the wording of his e-mail, where he repeatedly apologises for sending these e-mails indiscriminately to the whole Mt. Gox list, seems reasonable enough to me.

One of the sad consequences of all the scams that have plagued Bitcoin services is the level of paranoia that pervades the Bitcoin community now. Even people like Casascius who have done such great work for Bitcoin and shared such great ideas with the community now have to put up with being called spammers and worse just because of an (arguably misguided) attempt at preventing fraud using his name.


Title: Re: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%
Post by: casascius on October 26, 2011, 07:11:45 PM
I just received a ransom "request" from the would-be attackers...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49947