Bitcoin Forum

Shapeshift Moves (https://news.bitcoin.com/shapeshift-membership-user-information/) to Membership Model Requiring User Information!

I think crypto services are being forced to move to such models.

That sounds like suicide for their service. I haven't extensively looked into the article, but if you need to create an account, plus additional KYC, what exactly are the upsides of their service compared to Binance?

It seems like it really just defeats the purpose of their "Instant exchange" model. I'm afraid that sooner rather than later another Instant exchange such as Changelly is going to completely dominate the market.

I've checked the article now -- Nowhere does it state if they're introducing this because it is required by law.. Seems like an extremely stupid move.

That's the final nail in the coffin for Shapeshift. First they change some policy that affected US customers, now they coming up will a full KYC requirements? They are charging exorbitant fees and this news give us more reasons to go around and look for alternative crypto exchange service. I don't know though how wallets that integrates Shapeshifts will be affected like Exodus or Jaxx.

For those who are interested on how they protect your data:

https://info.shapeshift.io/blog/2018/09/04/how-shapeshift-keeps-your-information-safe/

What the hell? Man, I loved shapeshift, well RIP!  :'(

The main reason that I used shapeshift was that no membership bullshit was required. No KYC, no fuckall shit. So only changelly is left, well won't be surprised if changelly does the same thing. Is there any valid reason behind or is it the original classic, compulsory KYC idiocy?

Yeah, I think they'll realise this real quick and either scrap this altogether or pursue some other way around it (possibly a move to one of 'em upcoming blockchain islands maybe?).

It may not be a legal requirement yet but if I recall, they were involved with enforcement in freezing funds sent to them when they were given the addresses of the thieves. That partnership probably gave them some good marketing, so it's possible they wanted to leverage on that - at the cost of their customers' privacy.

Them atomic swapping Dexes will want to hurry up and displace the ilk of Shapeshifter.

Nope =( (https://bcfocus.com/news/changelly-withhold-hundreds-of-monero-due-to-high-risk-kyc-concerns/22326/)

I had a problem using Shapeshift for some time, and I stopped using it a month ago, but what will happen to the wallets based on Shapeshift exchange?
you can try:

 - https://flyp.me/ (https://flyp.me/): native Segwit support, exchanges of less than 1$, and without BitcoinCash :)
 - https://www.shiftex.io/ (https://www.shiftex.io/): I tried it once and worked fine, I do not know the current situation

There is ChangeNow:
https://changenow.io?link_id=0ef634ed1582d6 (https://changenow.io?link_id=0ef634ed1582d6)

or

Flip:
https://flyp.me (https://flyp.me)

Or you can use OpenBazzar:
https://openbazaar.com/discover/results/?type=cryptocurrency (https://openbazaar.com/discover/results/?type=cryptocurrency)

There are more but those are the ones I know off the top of my head.

-Dave

I wouldn't trust Changelly with my clinkers, let alone any money.

Read the responses of their support on Reddit and tell me that sounds like a place KYC free - https://www.reddit.com/user/changelly_com

So, can i still using shapeshift without KYC? Or i must do KYC first now?
Sorry i can't open the site, idk why. I hope i can still trade without do KYC first.

The first one looks interesting, since you said they can do exchange with less than $1. Will give a try.

Edit:
Ah, okay. Thanks!

Right now, it's not mandatory. From the CEO:

"Today, membership is optional, but it will become mandatory soon…Membership requires basic personal information to be collected."

Someone paid 0.14BTC[1] to warn others to stay away from that platform, and you recommend it to others. ::)
There are also many Many scam accusations against that site "changenow"[2]

There is a problem with some IP "US" to access that site "You will be redirected to http://pleaseprotectconsumers.org/."
Try using any VPN will work.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4927603.msg45002514#msg45002514
[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1307188

All these "scam accusations" against changenow were payed by one user ni23457. He openly stated that he is spending lots of money on spoiling changenow reputation. This is a result of a simple AML/KYC procedure applied to him (due to suspicious activity if his coins). He've sent fake ID 2 times and after that decided to spend his money and time on destroying the service instead of trying to solve the problem.

I personally suggest that this user is involved in some kind of scam (part of wex.nz team or related to bithumb or nicehash hack). I know that crypto services cooperate to find stolen money after massive hacks and maybe this is the case.

Shiftex.io simply uses the API of either Shapeshift/Changelly/Evercoin(?) Doesn't really look like a valid alternative.

https://flyp.me/ looks decent, although i have never heard of them before.



Are you talking about https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9cqmm2/do_not_use_changelly_they_steal_monero/e5danwt/?context=3

That seems like exactly the same situation ChangeNow.io is in, the only difference here is that changelly is not getting flamed for it? Why is this not a big deal?

Am i missing something?


So once you accept their terms they can ask you for KYC data any time they want w/out providing information as to why.. Guess i'll be avoiding this exchange aswell.

Among others things, yes. In other posts I seem to remember them saying they have awarded themselves the right to keep whatever money fails to 'pass' their KYC checks.

There are quite a few theories swirling around about Changelly being linked to Bytecoin, Freewallet and a few other places.

None of it inspires me to ever give it a try. At the very least they smell of selective scamming to me.

Oh, well, that escalated into something that I will definitely not be a part of in the foreseeable future. They've been doing everything greatly until this announcement. They're saying that this is an optional "membership" thing but in reality, they're putting their customer in a position where you either choose to provide them the KYC documents or move on with your life and transfer to other exchange/service provider.

What I'm interested right now is how many customers will still use Shapeshift after this and will this company be able to survive in the coming months.

In other words, they can wield power to and get your coins:

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/09/04/monero-profiled-suspicious-exchange/

And what makes its more suspicious is that it hasn't clarify how they mark a transaction suspicious.  So if you failed their test, then say bye-bye to your coins.

What the..... Jesus christ, can we an exchange which doesn't do fuckall crap like this, PLEASE? Might as well go to trading stocks, if I wanted to experience same, if not worse than what stock exchanges have you deal with.

I am deadass curious about it too.

I have honestly never heard of these exchanges, but I would take your word for it. No BCH gives an extra confidence.

flyp.e only has a reddit subboard, and shiftex doesn't have that either.

Not to mention shiftex is literally redirect website to shapeshift, changelly,and evercoin(God knows what this is).

Have a look:

https://i.imgur.com/6AaqxXs.png

---

Changelly fucked up too, cool. Awesome. So now...I go and trade in an exchange who no one knows. Shut up and take my money,unknown exchange.

Why not use Binance? They don’t require KYC (at least for now and for < 2 BTC exchanges). It’s been some time since there was good no-register fast exchangers.

Don't yell at me but I find their UI to be very ugly.  :-[

And I don't remember my credentials that I registered with. I gotta figure that out first. Even though binance moved to Malta, they will just come out of nowhere and ask for KYC, its been a thing for more than a while now. I am too damn adamant to get used to it. I need a crypto-therapy. 

---

Can some asshole please create a non-register quick transfer exchange, that doesn't do things like changelly and shapeshift, and just be a good exchange, for once?

Well, they still need to go through a regular exchange (unless they have a LOT of liquidity). So I kinda see why they start asking for KYC after getting a bigger daily volume. At the end, the best solution is to use a DEX or just P2P.

How long will non KYC last there? Especially if they fully settle in Malta. I can't see the Maltese government sitting idle while millions of people pile in with zero ID.

Yeah I heard many negative feedback about them too. What other services are there thats like Shapeshift and Changelly? This is the best for them to market themselves as the service that will never require KYC on their users lol.

Its also the best time to open a TOR darknet cryptocurrency converter.

"Membership" .... LOL. ::)

I suppose this was inevitable. If a centralized service gets big enough, regulators come knocking. And then comes the KYC. Oh well, it was a good run. How's Changelly these days? :P

Why not? I always figured them for a rubber stamp regulator. Not that I have much knowledge to draw on...... that was just my feeling from the early online gaming days.

Probably couldn't be happier with the news. In the case of Shapeshift though, their CEO apparently has been for many years resistant to kyc needs and avid supporter of privacy, and since he's not said anything public, one can only assume he's done this move in the corporate interest of his company and employees. Tough but I think he just killed his business model. The very service itself was based on that concept. But I think I saw this coming once they stepped in and froze stolen funds (from some exchange hack in South Korea if I recall). Everyone and enforcement thought it was a good thing, but once the precedent had been set, there really was no going back

well, this is an other reason that a real DEX should be available. As soon as somebody launches a useful DEX they will get a lot of users. and the more users the more volume, the more users the more volume => success.

i liked shapeshifter to quickly exchange some fund. Funds that i dont want to transfer to an exchange....

I think that he did make some comments on twitter, and it really was giving off a feeling that he was definitely pressured into doing this. -- Either by Feds or investors in his company. It's a shame though, since Shapeshift is a pretty useful service.

When he's asked whether or not he's forced to implement it, his response is this.

Sounds like someone is definitely forcing his hand. Whether it be law enforcement or his investors?

Then why do it...  :-X

If you do like the service given  of Shapeshift and you don't care too much of your information then this wont really be a big issue for you but for those who do love anonymity will surely find another alternative.
This is somehow expected where services or crypto related businesses would really come to a point where government is already making some intervention and we are actually seeing on whats gradually happening nowadays.

More likely the investors and employees - though the latter really is just sentiment and they could just be all replaced, just the news of them dumping the project could be more harmful than actually giving in to the business interests of investors and employees.

Then again, if none of the investors and/or employees can see how they've just committed business seppuku, what did they think they were doing in the past and how did they think crypto users preferred to do business?


A real, cross platform, atomic swapping DEX. That is, indeed, the dream.

But in the meanwhile, a decentralised P2P platform might do the job just as well. Maybe with less speed, but with more protection (escrow).

2 BTC is a substantial amount of money, especially when multiplied over hundreds or thousands of fake accounts.

The EU is not exactly into the idea of unchecked finance and Malta is a tadpole in EU terms. They will be told to close the gaping holes that they permit and Malta will tell Binance  to comply or find a new home.

The options for anonymous money are shrinking constantly. Crypto won't be allowed to skip that.

What would you do if FinCEN were threatening you with an enforcement action? That would probably mean millions of dollars in civil penalties. And it might be coordinated with the Justice Department, bringing criminal charges. Unlicensed money service business, money laundering.... these can carry long prison sentences. I bet that's floating around in the back of Erik's head as Shapeshift implements these changes. :-\

Erik is just about making money in the end, it's not a charity service he offers out of love for the crypto community. He'll do what's the best option for his business and in this case it's a measure forced upon them.

I do think less people will use their service due to all this, but I also think the group of hardcore Shapeshift users will stick with it regardless of how severe the implemented measures are.

If people are okay with handing their private information over to scummy ICOs for investment purposes, they will definitely not shy away from handing over the same private information to a reputable exchanging service.

It seems that competitors are gonna get stronger considering that news...

Considering the current situation of instant exchanges, I guess flyp.me (there's no mandatory signup) is the natural place for everyone to move now...

I hope sooner than later decentralized exchanges are gonna disrupt that market...

for sure. the same people that were willing to do KYC on bittrex and poloniex will do so on shapeshift. and a lot of people don't even think about it; they just fork over their documents when asked. i'm still amazed at how readily people give up their docs to fly-by-night ICOs pushing vaporware when identity theft is on the table. hell, some people do it just for the bounties. sad....


i definitely like the idea of no registration. i've never heard of this site, though. anybody used it?

Our conscience is clean. Whoever reaches out to our support, gets a response. In addition, we were able to stop hacking and money laundering activities, whenever it was within our power.
Nonetheless, we believe that any crypto investor is free to choose any preferred wallet service.

Never heard a problem about it...

References:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1952077

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3208626

Not really. Services have their own rights, citizens have their own privacy rights and government can only impose limited restrictions unless a court order is issued which takes months of hearings. These exchanges are just doing it to make their process of dealing with customer complaints easier. They know people like to be anonymous. No court would take a consumers accusation seriously if they can't prove their identity. You can file a case that the exchange has stolen 100 BTC but there is no way they could prove the BTC belonged to them without a KYC.

You can prove BTC belong to you signing a message with your BTC address.
Exchange can prove owning their address signing a message with that BTC address.
You can prove depositing BTC to exchange address pointing transaction id on blockchain.

KYC does not prove anything. It is an image uploaded to one exchange then stolen and uploaded by somebody else to another exchange then stolen and uploaded by somebody else to another exchange.
Bitcoin is proof of ownership and change of ownership.

I don't buy that for a second. When someone can go to jail for selling a piffling amount of BTC on local bitcoins you can bet your botty all of these places are petrified of being locked up for a trillion years.

They all know what's in store for them if they eschew it. Any involvement with money these days is hideously toxic and dangerous for one's health and freedom.

Another one bites the dust...  :'( :'( :'(

They still offer to buy using credit card and their service is great for newbies.  I'm not sure how hard and/or long it will take to pass the kyc so that could really hurt them.

Binance will go KYC soon enough plus all legit exchanges.

I doubt Binance will ever adapt KYC laws voluntarily. Where did you get that information from? AFAIK they keep server locations a secret, they don't care how many "unverified" accounts you open, and have also announced that they will launch a DEX in the near future.

The entire reason they became popular really was because Polo/Bittrex did force KYC. I feel like Binance will be replaced just as fast if they were to do so too.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-releases-demo-of-decentralized-exchange
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R9LrKgL__A

Could be that he just wants to pump his BNB coin, but i seriously doubt that when you have an exchange averaging a billion$ a day (=more $ in fees than BNB could ever make them)

Oh, you mean the likes of Poloniex/Bittrex who duped and lied to their customers? Yeah, those sure are legit!  ::)

Had to ask the same question to the guy above you. As we all can see, what makes Binance different from this "LEGIT" exchanges that forces KYC verification is, they keep everything anonymous as possible, and managed it with a smooth service.




Lol that made me laugh  ! 😂

Binance wants to offering fiat to crypto.  There is no way that will happen by not implementing KYC.

Keeping their servers anonymous is just trying to avoid getting caught but I don't see governments allowing this forever.

Is the hidden binance server thing a fact? If it is then I would find that a turn off, not the exit scam side of things, more the inference that it's an acknowledgement of them sailing close to the wind.

If you want to be the world's largest exchange then you're going to have to swallow The Man's sperm whether you want to or not.

they actually already have KYC. you just don't need to complete it if you're okay with the 2BTC daily withdrawal limit.

i imagine it'll be like bitfinex. no KYC required to trade or withdraw cryptocurrency, but KYC required for depositing and withdrawing fiat money.


i don't think hiding their servers will do much for them anyway, if shit really hits the fan. just ask the admins at btc-e......

I was glad that I didn't have to upload any ID to get verified.
All they've asked me was the number on my passport, got verified after that.

I still think it's pretty bad that you now have to do KYC to trade between crypto, it's really starting to become the standard nowadays.

Their CEO stated in september 2017 that their servers were located in Korea, https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=420&v=LW9QHtLVK-k, but since then they have moved their headquarters to Malta?. I think.

See https://blockonomi.com/binance-malta/

After that it became unknown where (In what country) their servers are located. OR if they are still located in Korea.

This their universal response when asked where their servers are located;

See https://www.reddit.com/r/binance/comments/7pljli/can_someone_please_tell_me_where_is_binance_based/dt3k5nr

<|https://i.imgur.com/C0W5bl1.png|>

If i recall correctly, something someone in the State of New york already called for an investigation against Binance because they were breaking several laws. (Just like Poloniex was in that jurisdiction.)

This might be it. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/york-says-three-crypto-exchanges-184626208.html?guccounter=1

Ahhh don't you worry...Shapeshift is just preparing for a takeover, think about it; Polo fetched 400mm, pretty sure Shapeshift is worth xxx millions too, but only with 100% rock solid regulator dick sucking behind it.

If it wasn't about money Vorhees could just close the company, right? I guess he got offers that he could not refuse.  ;)

Technically you only need KYC if you trade crypto vs fiat, in large quantities (for small quantities there are p2p options).

However crypto to crypto does not require an exchange at all, nor a corporation of any kind - blockchain assets can technically be traded on decentralized exchanges. No regulator in the world can prevent a dapp from executing a trade from crypto A to crypto B.

What Shapeshift does can be done on ETH, NEO, Byteball, Bitshares and many more.

You've got to admire the newspeak though, "membership, rewards"

You are not tax slaves anymore, just IRS "members"  ;D ;D ;D

That'll probably go down in history as one of the worst buys of all time. There needs to be a permanent uptick, not a bubble, for these valuations to be justified and the likelihood of that is very low.

Surprised bisq isn't mentioned yet.

It's might not be the best option for getting into bitcoin as a first time buyer but anyone with bitcoin already could trade altcoins on their decentralized platform.

Non-kyc options from https://www.bestbitcoinbuyers.com/buy-bitcoin-anonymously/

Binance
bisq
Hodlhodl
Paxful
Changelly
Coinmama
Wall of Coins
Mycelium wallet local trader

The problem is that most active platforms only offer trading of "tokens" and "pegged tokens". Atomic swaps are supported only by few of them. I've made a list in German (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1542761.0). To resume: AFAIK at the moment only BarterDEX and Blocknet offer working graphical tools to realize atomic swaps. BarterDEX already works for a year or so, and also Blocknet has published its open Block DX tool, although Blocknet requires additionally a Blocknet cryptocurrency client, so there is more hassle involved.

Bisq is an alternative: For altcoin-to-altcoin trading there is almost no risk, as it's easy for the arbitrators to prove that one of the parties scammed the other. And it offers fiat-to-crypto trades, albeit it's more risky.

Edit: Just checked Blocknet, seems to be active.

Why do you think so? They will lose some of their market share in the short term, however, I think they will thrive in the long term. The recent trend is crypto seems to be shifting towards KYC and lots of it. Most Asian exchanges demand them and Coinbase is doing very well regardless.

KYC's something many people avoid here, and this has definitely hurt Shapeshift in the short term. Other more anonymous options that don't require as much verification will definitely thrive in this current crypto ecosystem; the optional KYC on Binance is a big contributor to why they've blown up in popularity and volume in the last few months.

Bisq is indeed a good alternative for a plce to swap coins without vertification, but note that to use the platform you'll need to have a computer that runs Windows, Mac or Linux. There is an app on both the Google and Apple app stores for Bisq, but they're just for notifications. Binance has also worked flawlessly for me with very few issues. The limits without verification for me aren't too much of a problem, though you do get enhanced limits for withdrawal, etc if you do choose to verify yourself.

They certainly will thrive, and already do to a larger extent, but it's all short term with how even Binance will eventually find itself in a position it can't escape from anymore. I'm not using Binance personally, but there will be a day where Bitmex (my current platform of choice) will also force its users to walk themselves through some sort of verification process.

The rest of the services retaining their zero verification advantage will contantly have to worry about the authorities raiding the crap out of them. You can try to keep hiding behind proxies as much as you want, but eventually the hammer will hit you so hard that it means game over. I personally don't care about these services specifically, but they always affect users which is the sad part, because the government won't give you anything back once they seized the assets of an illegal operation.

There is an issue of trust when using anonymous exchanges. I wouldn't trust these services with a high amount of coins. They could exit scam at any moment, or change policies after receiving deposits then request kyc.

Kyc is almost normal these days in financial services. Cryptocurrencies will go the same way and the process has already started. It won't be long before it becomes the norm.

How long do you think Binance will hold out for before making it mandatory? I don't think they will for long.

Binance fled to Malta not that long ago, and for the time being they are safe in my book. The only thing I expect them to do in the near future is to start rejecting US citizens in an attempt to shake off the US authorities.

Some of the largest exchanges have already been doing so for quite a while now, and it's the safest possible move because of how active the US authorities have been and will be getting in the coming years.

I hope that whenever Binance decides to do anything that would require them to terminate user accounts, that they give them enough time to withdraw their funds without subjecting them to ridiculous verification steps.

If Coinbase allows people to withdraw their funds without any hassle prior to their account termination, other exchanges should be able to do the same.

For exchanging ERC-20 tokens with no need for KYC you should use Ethershift - they're operating and headquartered in Antigua and their laws are very flexible and these guys are all for the user privacy!

Anyone who thinks Malta won't immediately roll over when ordered to is delusional. It's purely a matter of time before the pressure is put on. Will Malta ignore the rest of the world and embrace one Chinese bloke or protect the 99.999% of their economy that isn't crypto related?

i'm not even sure they'd need to "roll over" per se. it's just their headquarters. when the USA government wants to shut something down, they go after the domain and servers. binance's domain can be easily seized by the feds, and wherever binance is hiding their servers, we've seen in the case of btc-e that it's probably not good enough.

even if they cut USA residents now, that may not save them either. for example, the 1broker charges went back to 2016, but charges weren't filed until last month.

Reading all complaints here I assure you Decentralized Exchanges are the only way out of this problem (freezing/confiscation of coins)...

BTW don't forget those MtGox's style hackings...

More DEX liquidity is needed.

I wish they will stop forcing 2FA for registration soon because this is very stupid. One can't be a member just because he doesn't want to use 2FA and doesn't have any problem with securing his passwords.

lol indeed, i didn't register on there for the exactly same reason. The idiotism is they already implement two-factor with personal unique codes and after that they require one more two-factor with google and sms. fuck that

It do sucks but you cant do anything about it since its their protocol and if you do tend to make use of their service then you wont really have any choice but to comply with it.
Security is always been important but  i dont know why it would really be needed it on a fast swap platform.

Because people from higher up the chain (goverments) probably asked ShapeShift to do so.

Despite Shapeshift saying that this isn't the case, i wouldn't believe for a second that if they weren't pressured by US government/SEC/other legal entities, they still would've implemented these stupid 2FA mechanics/their membership levels. As i said before, it completely destroys their business model and the (only) advantage that they had over binance.

And their traffic keeps dropping. https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/shapeshift.io
(Although, this is more or less the case with ALL exchanges, so it's not exactly a fair metric, still though, it seems to be dropping faster than eg binance..)

they do that because most people have a mobile that is tied to their identity. all part of a larger plan to map the blockchain. It's certainly not for your safety, that's for sure. If it was about safety, paper based 2-factor codes would be the obvious solution...nobody does that except LBC...ask yourself why.  >:(

The fact that they  do not hold your funds but use this shit, speaks for itself. There is no security needed at all, but they enforce google/SMS  ;D