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Title: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: doolittle on October 01, 2018, 07:38:24 AM I read a book (https://d28rh4a8wq0iu5.cloudfront.net/bitcointech/readings/princeton_bitcoin_book.pdf), the other day and learned about bitcoin clustering in it. So, bitcoin clustering can show a certain pattern of transfers between bitcoin wallets. Who? How much? and when he transferred bitcoins. Look at the picture
http://i65.tinypic.com/2uhac6w.png (picture from book ) Anyone can make such a deep analysis and identify who owns this wallet. So the picture shows the relationship between exchanges and major players in the market that have the most bitcoins and make the most transactions. People Framing themselves and lose their anonymity. They publish his bitcoin wallets on all Internet platforms (Bitcointalk, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc) It turns out that thanks to our mistakes, we deprive ourselves of the most priority feature in bitcoin - anonymity. I understand that scammers and users of the darknet use disposable wallets, but they all lead to some stock exchange or currency exchange site. But how to be ordinary users who do not want to show their income from cryptocurrency and transactions on them. How to be in this situation? is there a way? Besides books, I read the article " Bitfury bitcoin deanonymizer? (https://www.cointelegram.news/bitfury-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B5%D1%82-bitcoin/)"It's also about Bitfury's own analysis (one of the largest mining companies), they're also puzzled by anonymity. There in this article says there is only one way to protect yourself . It's a crude way of anonymity: the "obfuscation" method. To do this, a lot of transactions are made, the purpose of which is to untie a person from a specific address. However, in bitcoin it is very expensive, if at all possible, due to the limited size of 1 MB data. Gets that each exchange, let it be Coinbase or other exchange know which user has what bitcoin address and how many transactions he makes. Conclusion. Anonymity in bitcoin is a very rhetorical question. Will there ever be complete bitcoin anonymity? Perhaps, when bitcoin will be an independent currency and there will be no transit transfers. (Bitcoin-Fiat). What do you think about theme? Source book (https://d28rh4a8wq0iu5.cloudfront.net/bitcointech/readings/princeton_bitcoin_book.pdf) Source article (https://www.cointelegram.news/bitfury-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B5%D1%82-bitcoin/) Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: xtraelv on October 01, 2018, 07:39:43 AM Bitcoin is pseudo- anonymous. It is not anonymous.
Satoshi had no illusions of this: When you send to a bitcoin address, you don't connect to the recipient. You send the transaction to the network the same way you relay transactions. There's no distinction between a transaction you originated and one you received from another node that you're relaying in a broadcast. With a very small network though, someone might still figure it out by process of elimination. It'll be better when the network is larger. If you send by IP, the recipient sees you because you connect to their IP. You could use TOR to mask that. You could use TOR if you don't want anyone to know you're even using Bitcoin. Bitcoin is still very new and has not been independently analysed. If you're serious about privacy, TOR is an advisable precaution. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: doolittle on October 01, 2018, 07:49:53 AM Bitcoin is pseudo- anonymous. It is not anonymous. That's exactly what I tried to write in my article. By the way, not only bitcoin, But all altcoins have such essence. I wish I had thought otherwise.Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: TMAN on October 01, 2018, 08:24:02 AM Think of it this way, Ill know the address that someone sent a TX from, but I wont know the inside leg measurement of the sender
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: xtraelv on October 01, 2018, 08:25:06 AM Bitcoin is pseudo- anonymous. It is not anonymous. That's exactly what I tried to write in my article. By the way, not only bitcoin, But all altcoins have such essence. I wish I had thought otherwise.Not all altcoins either. There are some privacy coins that are anonymous. zcash, monero, electroneum. To name a few. Of course as soon as you try to exchange it to fiat via a centralized exchange all anonymity is lost. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Jet Cash on October 01, 2018, 08:33:52 AM Without using any of the tools to obscure internet activity, how are you going to track me in the following situation.
Set up a node using public WiFi, and a copy of the blockchain I've already downloaded. Receive Bitcoin into that wallet. Use the Bitcoin to purchase gold coins. Wipe the hard drive on the computer with the core node. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: doolittle on October 01, 2018, 09:00:40 AM Without using any of the tools to obscure internet activity, how are you going to track me in the following situation. You speak too scientific a language, it's quite difficult for me. And not just me, most people do not know how to do this. I'm just trying to understand how the blockchain and bitcoin. "Blocks, knots" is difficult for me.Set up a node using public WiFi, and a copy of the blockchain I've already downloaded. Receive Bitcoin into that wallet. Use the Bitcoin to purchase gold coins. Wipe the hard drive on the computer with the core node. Not all altcoins either. There are some privacy coins that are anonymous. zcash, monero, electroneum. To name a few. Yes you are right, I did not consider the peculiarities of these coins. For the Monero I heard a long time that it is used to pay on the black market. Of course as soon as you try to exchange it to fiat via a centralized exchange all anonymity is lost. But still, any contact with the exchange or Fiat money, you can immediately recognize. Think of it this way, Ill know the address that someone sent a TX from, but I wont know the inside leg measurement of the sender If I understand you correctly, you are talking about the situation when me transferred someone bitcoin, and I then transferred to several other accounts, it is impossible to track in the history of transactions? After all, through explorer it is possible to check wallets and transactions with them. Correct me if I misunderstand you.Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: xtraelv on October 01, 2018, 09:02:00 AM Without using any of the tools to obscure internet activity, how are you going to track me in the following situation. I don't know why your would do it that way. There are numerous exchanges that allow for anon accounts. Just hold your bitcoin on one of those and transfer using a disposable device on public wifi like a $20 smart phone (in case the mac address is logged) Set up a node using public WiFi, and a copy of the blockchain I've already downloaded. Receive Bitcoin into that wallet. Use the Bitcoin to purchase gold coins. Wipe the hard drive on the computer with the core node. You need to somehow receive those gold coins. So shipping address from the vendor. The vendor may not be as meticulous with protecting their identity. If the vendor can be identified then they could lead to you. When the vendor sells their bitcoins it may also lead to their identification. You could potentially be identified by the origin of your bitcoins too. Yes you are right, I did not consider the peculiarities of these coins. For the Monero I heard a long time that it is used to pay on the black market. But still, any contact with the exchange or Fiat money, you can immediately recognize. Monero is used on the darknet. But fiat (cash) it used for more illegal transactions than anything else in the world. If you sell your bitcoins to someone who remains careful with their identity and sell them for cash then you cannot be identified. Your wallet and the transaction can be identified but if you are careful then your real life identity is not revealed. Online casinos and mixers can also be used to mask the origin of bitcoins. My proposal for a system called "walletswap" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5001019.0) would make tracking much more difficult too. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: ND_INVEST on October 01, 2018, 09:29:12 AM Bitcoin is pseudo- anonymous. It is not anonymous. That's exactly what I tried to write in my article. By the way, not only bitcoin, But all altcoins have such essence. I wish I had thought otherwise.Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: hdtqisg on October 01, 2018, 10:16:57 AM Bitcoin is not as anonymous as you are thinking, for ordinary users, it's a great anonymity, for large numbers of transactions are monitored and checked!
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: xtraelv on October 01, 2018, 10:17:26 AM This is what Satoshi said:
> Can nodes on the network tell from which and or to which bitcoin > address coins are being sent? Do blocks contain a history of where > bitcoins have been transfered to and from? Bitcoins are sent to and from bitcoin addresses, which are essentially random numbers with no identifying information. When you send to an IP address, the transaction is still written to a bitcoin address. The IP address is only used to connect to the recipient's computer to request a fresh bitcoin address, give the transaction directly to the recipient and get a confirmation. Blocks contain a history of the bitcoin addresses that a coin has been transferred to. If the identities of the people using the bitcoin addresses are not known and each address is used only once, then this information only reveals that some unknown person transferred some amount to someone else. The possibility to be anonymous or pseudonymous relies on you not revealing any identifying information about yourself in connection with the bitcoin addresses you use. If you post your bitcoin address on the web, then you're associating that address and any transactions with it with the name you posted under. If you posted under a handle that you haven't associated with your real identity, then you're still pseudonymous. For greater privacy, it's best to use bitcoin addresses only once. You can change addresses as often as you want using Options->Change Your Address. Transfers by IP address automatically use a new bitcoin address each time. > Can nodes tell which bitcoin addresses belong to which IP addresses? No. > Is there a command line option to enable the sock proxy the first > time that bitcoin starts? In the next release (version 0.2), the command line to run it through a proxy from the first time is: bitcoin -proxy=127.0.0.1:9050 The problem for TOR is that the IRC server which Bitcoin uses to initially discover other nodes bans the TOR exit nodes, as all IRC servers do. If you've already connected once before then you're already seeded, but for the first time, you'd need to provide the address of a node as such: bitcoin -proxy=127.0.0.1:9050 -addnode=<someipaddress> If someone running a node with a static IP address that can accept incoming connections could post their IP to use for -addnode, that would be great. > What happens if you send bitcoins to an IP address that has multiple > clients connected through network address translation (NAT)? Whichever one you've set your NAT to forward port 8333 to will receive it. If your router can change the port number when it forwards, you could allow more than one client to receive. For instance, if port 8334 forwards to a computer's port 8333, then senders could send to "x.x.x.x:8334" If your NAT can't translate port numbers, there currently isn't a command line option to change the incoming port that bitcoin binds to, but I'll look into it. -------------------- anonguy54: Request: Make this anonymous? Posted:Thu 15 of Oct, 2009 (19:58 UTC) Are there any plans to make this service anonymous? e.g; Being able to route BitCoin through Tor. There will be a proxy setting in version 0.2 so you can connect through TOR. I've done a careful scrub to make sure it doesn't use DNS or do anything that would leak your IP while in proxy mode. Another thing you would want to consider is browser finger printing and device fingerprinting. https://www.thewindowsclub.com/browser-fingerprinting http://testdeprivacidad.com/fingerprint/en Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Red-Apple on October 01, 2018, 11:09:25 AM Bitcoin is pseudo- anonymous. It is not anonymous. Satoshi had no illusions of this: to be fair that explanation is mostly talking about a very old feature in bitcoin where you could send bitcoin to someone by knowing their IP address, essentially connecting to that IP https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/IP_transaction which is now removed. but you are correct that nobody had any illusions about bitcoin being anonymous. i don't know when this illusion came from though. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Granxis on October 01, 2018, 11:24:38 AM I do not really know if bitcoin can be fully anonymous,for now it's simply pseudonymous The fact that Bitcoin is anonymous is just an extra feature, independent of all important money systems. There must be an anonymity within the Blockchain system and lost anonymity all over the world.I think the issue is when your identity is related to your pseudonym,then your identity can be traced since its stored on the blockchain network. A different pseudonym(address) for every transaction will maintain a fairly anonymous status Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Anies_Sandi on October 01, 2018, 12:34:01 PM Bitcoin is not as anonymous as you are thinking, for ordinary users, it's a great anonymity, for large numbers of transactions are monitored and checked! It is very true that what you convey is cryptocurrency, the transaction can be known and its development is transparent in my opinion, all back to the confidence and patience of its investors.Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: franky1 on October 01, 2018, 12:55:10 PM no point in talking about going anonymous
look what the OP did Quote Name: doolittle Posts: 321 Activity: 321 Merit: 100 Position: Full Member Date Registered: July 17, 2012, 10:08:27 PM Last Active: Today at 09:00:40 AM Bitcoin address: 166QzXhNF7NySB9DuVFWHpUoH4Unjws6hY no point asking a network to be anonymous if your literally linking your address to things that can reveal things about you. which. even knowing the problem.. seems people dont listen and think its expensive.... People Framing themselves and lose their anonymity. They publish his bitcoin wallets on all Internet platforms (Bitcointalk, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc) [/i] (facepalm)It turns out that thanks to our mistakes, we deprive ourselves of the most priority feature in bitcoin - anonymity. But how to be ordinary users who do not want to show their income from cryptocurrency and transactions on them. How to be in this situation? is there a way? It's a crude way of anonymity: the "obfuscation" method. To do this, a lot of transactions are made, the purpose of which is to untie a person from a specific address. However, in bitcoin it is very expensive, if at all possible, Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: ranman09 on October 01, 2018, 01:21:28 PM Without using any of the tools to obscure internet activity, how are you going to track me in the following situation. You speak too scientific a language, it's quite difficult for me. And not just me, most people do not know how to do this. I'm just trying to understand how the blockchain and bitcoin. "Blocks, knots" is difficult for me.Set up a node using public WiFi, and a copy of the blockchain I've already downloaded. Receive Bitcoin into that wallet. Use the Bitcoin to purchase gold coins. Wipe the hard drive on the computer with the core node. Isn't that simply deleting your traces on using the network? You just deleted the .dat file. You have used the bitcoins anyway. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: muchachita14 on October 01, 2018, 01:34:10 PM Bitcoin is not anonymous, but rather pseudo-anonymous. By now, most Bitcoin veterans know this. It’s less obvious to many, however, why Bitcoin is not really anonymous by default, and what can be done to de-anonymize Bitcoin users and what Bitcoin users can do to reclaim their privacy.
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: BrewMaster on October 01, 2018, 03:10:21 PM no point in talking about going anonymous look what the OP did one might argue that even though he posted his bitcoin address on the internet he is still anonymous. all you can know is that this address belongs to an account on bitcointalk called <something>. you may not even know which country he is from let alone know his identity. unless he reveals those too. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Jansaa on October 01, 2018, 03:12:49 PM Bitcoin and altcoin are not anonymous as people still think, if you get or sell bitcoin and altcoin on Exchange with KYC, they can track you
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Harlot on October 01, 2018, 03:29:12 PM I think we should have know this already? The US based authorities even have announced that BTC related criminal activities went down as for the reason it is easily tracked and they are using other anonymity based cryptocurrencies like Monero (XMR). Our transactions are always linked to our BTC addressed and once they know who owns that btc address all of our in going and out going transactions will be monitored and will be linked back to us. BTC being anonymous now seems to be impossible as majority of the countries now are requiring some kind of KYC for their citizens.
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: squatter on October 01, 2018, 09:59:02 PM Without using any of the tools to obscure internet activity, how are you going to track me in the following situation. Set up a node using public WiFi, and a copy of the blockchain I've already downloaded. Receive Bitcoin into that wallet. Use the Bitcoin to purchase gold coins. Wipe the hard drive on the computer with the core node. Let's start with the lowest hanging fruit. Where did you acquire the BTC and gold from? I assume the coins didn't magically appear in your wallet. If you bought the coins from an exchange or ATM, you probably had to give up your identity, or at least some identifying details -- phone number, etc. which can be used to track you down. Even in a pseudonymous P2P cash transaction, you are still usually connecting through a centralized service (e.g. Localbitcoins) who knows certain things about you. And meeting in a public place to exchange cash for coins could potentially expose your identity as well. On the other side, you need to transact with the gold dealer. Many gold dealers require ID even below the $10,000 reporting threshold. There are other more paranoid considerations. You didn't obfuscate IP address. Where are you -- an internet cafe? The transaction is linked to that specific time in that specific internet cafe. Are there cameras? How many potential witnesses? :P Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: doolittle on October 01, 2018, 11:13:15 PM no point in talking about going anonymous Beautiful)))) I was waiting until someone noticed it and told me personally! I'm glad you did that!!!look what the OP did Quote Name: doolittle Posts: 321 Activity: 321 Merit: 100 Position: Full Member Date Registered: July 17, 2012, 10:08:27 PM Last Active: Today at 09:00:40 AM Bitcoin address: 166QzXhNF7NySB9DuVFWHpUoH4Unjws6hY no point asking a network to be anonymous if your literally linking your address to things that can reveal things about you. which. even knowing the problem.. seems people dont listen and think its expensive.... People Framing themselves and lose their anonymity. They publish his bitcoin wallets on all Internet platforms (Bitcointalk, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc) [/i] (facepalm)It turns out that thanks to our mistakes, we deprive ourselves of the most priority feature in bitcoin - anonymity. But how to be ordinary users who do not want to show their income from cryptocurrency and transactions on them. How to be in this situation? is there a way? It's a crude way of anonymity: the "obfuscation" method. To do this, a lot of transactions are made, the purpose of which is to untie a person from a specific address. However, in bitcoin it is very expensive, if at all possible, In fact, when I wrote this post, I thought about it that I have a bitcoin wallet listed on the my page. But I did install it long ago, for safety. There is a thread on the forum, in which the old-timers (moderators or administrators) wrote that would restore your account, in case of hacking, thanks to the bitcoin wallet. Wallet installed this is only for this purpose. And if you note that I have not used this wallet for a long time. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: pooya87 on October 02, 2018, 03:21:07 AM I think we should have know this already? The US based authorities even have announced that BTC related criminal activities went down as for the reason it is easily tracked and they are using other anonymity based cryptocurrencies like Monero (XMR). Our transactions are always linked to our BTC addressed and once they know who owns that btc address all of our in going and out going transactions will be monitored and will be linked back to us. BTC being anonymous now seems to be impossible as majority of the countries now are requiring some kind of KYC for their citizens. i am afraid cash is still the most anonymous currency that you can use to stay really anonymous. even the anonymous coins such as Monero are not safe enough to keep your identity secure, specially in case of the criminals who are trying to hide themselves. for instance recently there was some bug in Monero that made it traceable! Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: BigBos on October 02, 2018, 05:14:06 AM I think we should have know this already? The US based authorities even have announced that BTC related criminal activities went down as for the reason it is easily tracked and they are using other anonymity based cryptocurrencies like Monero (XMR). Our transactions are always linked to our BTC addressed and once they know who owns that btc address all of our in going and out going transactions will be monitored and will be linked back to us. BTC being anonymous now seems to be impossible as majority of the countries now are requiring some kind of KYC for their citizens. i am afraid cash is still the most anonymous currency that you can use to stay really anonymous. even the anonymous coins such as Monero are not safe enough to keep your identity secure, specially in case of the criminals who are trying to hide themselves. for instance recently there was some bug in Monero that made it traceable! Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Kakmakr on October 02, 2018, 05:26:50 AM All of this is only possible if you re-use the same Bitcoin Address for all the things you do. I always try to use separate Bitcoin addresses for different purposes and I never link these Bitcoin addresses together by transferring funds between them. If I have to transfer money between addresses, then I use mixer services to hide my tracks.
If you do not do it in this way, all addresses will be linked together and you will have virtually no anonymity at all. >:( Feel free to use the mixer service in my signature, because they are very good. ;D <chipmixer.com> Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: taiwww on October 02, 2018, 05:58:55 AM I like the diagram that has plotted here, very smooth and clear presentation of from where to where.
But, lets think about it one more time. I only see some big names, single person (satoshi), entities, service providers and networks in the diagram but I dont see name of rest of the million users in it. There might be big data mapping that can be done with this but its not repenting the personal information of someone at all. For example, I dont see my name or I cant read myself anywhere in that mapping. Now thats what we call as anonymous nature of crypto. Even if the addresses can be linked or seen then also everything remains the same because there is personal name attachment to them and thus by any way it remains pseudo-anonymous. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: panukurap on October 02, 2018, 06:06:24 AM bitcoin is not completely anonymous, many people think bitcoin is anonymous but actually not completely anonymous,
because every bitcoin transaction is monitored or checked. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Helex on October 02, 2018, 06:09:57 AM Its literally anonymous unless you link your bitcoin address with your identity.
Blockchain's main motto is visible transactions. If someone wants true anonymity they can turn towards monero like privacy coins. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: rosemary4u on November 17, 2018, 07:37:18 PM In one sense, bitcoin is really invisible when you want to identify the name or identity of the owner of a particular bitcoin wallet address. On the other hand, the anonymity of bitcoin is debatable since almost all transactions on the blockchain network can easily be tracked or monitored.
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: cxmyifan16 on November 17, 2018, 09:08:23 PM I think that it is impossible to guarantee that btc will be anonymous for long because government will do everything not to allow this. I think that it will be possible to enjoy confidentiality not for years but now i am sure that it is the only coin with such benefit
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: ratatat bangbang on November 17, 2018, 10:13:00 PM For me yes, bitcoin is anonymous because we cannot exactly tell who the people behind each account. It needs to undergo many process before knowing the I.p address, account name and others which is very hassle and time consuming.
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: bloodyvio on November 17, 2018, 10:16:59 PM as long as you don't tell your bitcoin address then you are anonymous
even though anyone can make a deep analysis and identify who owns it but still it's just guessing as long as you don't confess that it is your bitcoin wallet then you remain anonymous so bitcoin isn't designed anonymously Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: shursight on November 17, 2018, 11:17:04 PM Bitcoin is only anonymous if you know HOW to be anonymous, and it all depends on you and how do you manage your funds.
There are several ways, and several tools, but you only need to know how to protect yourself from the internet and all the things that you do. It is all upto the user, just like in any other thing of this life Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: FlightyPouch on November 17, 2018, 11:20:45 PM Bitcoin and altcoin are not anonymous as people still think, if you get or sell bitcoin and altcoin on Exchange with KYC, they can track you What? That is not the purpose of KYC. KYC(Know your Customer) is not for tracking he user who made the transactions but for the proof or an information they can show into a site or a project that they are real. Bitcoin is not that anonymous since you can track your information in a site, altcoins are the same but there are new crypto currencies that is fully anonymous making it a great currencies to be used on some crimes or illegal transactions. Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: bitfocus on November 18, 2018, 03:15:20 PM if you think that way, nothing in the world is now anonymous - but Bitcoin is kind of anonymous as it's really hard to link between you and your address/addresses.
Title: Re: Is it really Bitcoin Anonymous? Post by: Micerker on November 18, 2018, 03:20:40 PM Bitcoin is really anonymous, but this is anonymous in the deal. In fact, each address stores the transaction, but through the address, you know how the transaction takes place, you can not tell who made the transaction. Incognito here is the stigma in getting current transactions and possessions.
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