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Other => Meta => Topic started by: iamike on October 18, 2018, 07:26:48 PM



Title: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: iamike on October 18, 2018, 07:26:48 PM
Since the introduction of this merit policy, I have been following how people with merit source award the merit. One thing I have observed per the given out of this precious merit is that most people award this merit on the basis of "whom you know or who knows you". Just a few people are going by the actual brain or principle behind the institution of this merit policy. A lot of people with the merit source just share the merit among themselves forgetting about the intended purpose. At times, you could see that a certain post deserves to be rewarded because of its importance to the forum members but the otherwise happened. Now my question is "Is the merit really rewarded based on merit or whom you know?

Please I need your observations on this merit policy and its distribution.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: bitmover on October 18, 2018, 07:34:21 PM
Sources are not giving merits to their friends, as you stated.

If you believe so , share some posts which deserve merits and were not merited yet.


I took a look at your post history, and you don't deserve any merit. Just a bunch of 1-2line answers in useless megathreads. Your best posts are just copy pastes of articles...

You won't get merits by doing this.

If you want to get merit and rank up, try to be useful. Make relevant comments, which are worth people's time.

Take a look here, where i posted how I got my merits.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3306385.0


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: ibminer on October 18, 2018, 07:45:15 PM
One thing I have observed per the given out of this precious merit

https://i.imgur.com/XnHl2mu.png
Couldn't resist.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: Helana on October 18, 2018, 07:45:21 PM


Please I need your observations on this merit policy and its distribution.
Well, this is not exactly the way you're reading it. The merit sources are actively searching for newbies to merit. The issue here is more about the quality of the posts, this is difficult to find some quality posters nowadays.
Of course, after some interaction between the people, seniors members are used to merit those ones whose posts they find to be qualified for the task. Of course, this is a matter of probability: if you have been in here for a long time, and you are active and aware of the forum issues and circumstances, that's more probable for you to write something of use to the community. This is fairly normal, then, that senior users are the more rewarded ones.
But it doesn't mean that there are personal preferences, in fact, newbies should be more rewarded, for there are many people out there just looking for some newbies to reward. The problem is that there are few, actually, deserving it.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: iamike on October 18, 2018, 07:51:05 PM


Please I need your observations on this merit policy and its distribution.
Well, this is not exactly the way you're reading it. The merit sources are actively searching for newbies to merit. The issue here is more about the quality of the posts, this is difficult to find some quality posters nowadays.
Of course, after some interaction between the people, seniors members are used to merit those ones whose posts they find to be qualified for the task. Of course, this is a matter of probability: if you have been in here for a long time, and you are active and aware of the forum issues and circumstances, that's more probable for you to write something of use to the community. This is fairly normal, then, that senior users are the more rewarded ones.
But it doesn't mean that there are personal preferences, in fact, newbies should be more rewarded, for there are many people out there just looking for some newbies to reward. The problem is that there are few, actually, deserving it.

Oh I see. I really love your suggestion. Very educating. Thumbs up my boss.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: The Pharmacist on October 18, 2018, 07:59:12 PM
OP, who exactly are you accusing of giving merits to their "friends"?  From what I've seen, it's mostly the shitposting bounty hunter families that do that, and a lot of those idiots have been tagged.  Those people wouldn't dream of giving merits to people who make posts that deserve them.

How do you know who merit sources are "friends" with anyway?  You're making the accusation, and I'd like to know exactly what you're talking about.  I'm speaking for myself here:  I don't have anyone I could call a friend on bitcointalk.  I've never met anyone here in real life and I don't exchange many PMs with members other than shitposters asking for feedback removal.  It's not exactly a tight-knit community where Legendary members go out for beers after a hard day of smacking down spammers. 

Seems to me that it's possible that someone might like a handful of posters in particular such that they get the most merit from that someone.  For example, Foxpup has given me quite a few merits, but I have no idea who he is and I've never so much as spoken with him via PM.  There's nothing going on between us behind the scenes.  He apparently likes a lot of my posts, and I think that's probably true for a lot of the cases that you think are gangs of insiders sending merits back and forth between themselves.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: Findingnemo on October 18, 2018, 08:38:59 PM
Most of the time the merits were given to the deserved posts by merit sources only few times for some funny comments but if you feels like people wee sharing between their friends you can accuse them with valid proofs on reputation section for abusing the merit system.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: xfactor13 on October 19, 2018, 12:32:02 AM

Of course, after some interaction between the people, seniors members are used to merit those ones whose posts they find to be qualified for the task. Of course, this is a matter of probability: if you have been in here for a long time, and you are active and aware of the forum issues and circumstances, that's more probable for you to write something of use to the community. This is fairly normal, then, that senior users are the more rewarded ones.

This is fairly normal because as you become more involve in the forum, you will know how the community thinks and you can stimulate a better discussion with them.  You can contribute other perspectives than what is popular and give new insights for a certain topic.  This will you a higher chance to earn a merit.


But it doesn't mean that there are personal preferences,

There are personal preferences.  I saw posts getting merit because of personal preferences (posts that are sarcastic, all about jokes, and etc).  However, I think any user has different definition of "meritable posts" and we cannot judge them on their preferences.  If I have a merit, I have the freedom to give to to anyone I think I deserve and you may find my "meritable post" similar to what your opinion of a post that deserves a merit.


in fact, newbies should be more rewarded, for there are many people out there just looking for some newbies to reward. The problem is that there are few, actually, deserving it.

The action to increase merit sources is for the Newbies that deserve merits.  More merit sources means more merit for circulation.  I think we need to commend Theymos in increasing merit sources (some users were assigned as merit sources even though they did not apply as one). This just proves that Theymos is looking for more ways to eliminate the shortcomings of the current merit system.

These merit sources are also active in searching for newbies that deserve merits.  I always see Jetcash make a post with a certain question then if a low-ranked member answered it coherently then he will reward a merit.  I know another one, (Pharmacist if I am not mistaken?) that is searching other boards than Meta to give merits to newbies engaging in helpful discussions.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: Upgate on October 19, 2018, 01:11:28 AM
I guess if there was no merit needed to wear a signature you would not care about this sudden precious merit. You have made over 200 post prior to the new merit system and to you everything was fine. Now its suddenly important to that you even observing how it's distributed

Well I guess the reason of the new merit system is working out. It keeping you on your toes.

Well I there merit source and those sources are looking out for good post so just avoid this whining


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: suchmoon on October 19, 2018, 04:50:08 AM
One thing I have observed per the given out of this precious merit is that most people award this merit on the basis of "whom you know or who knows you". Just a few people are going by the actual brain or principle behind the institution of this merit policy. A lot of people with the merit source just share the merit among themselves forgetting about the intended purpose. At times, you could see that a certain post deserves to be rewarded because of its importance to the forum members but the otherwise happened.

You must have forgotten an attachment with your e-mail. I don't see any observations or other support for your claim. In fact data indicates pretty much the opposite (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5052019.0) - many sources merit hundreds of users, which can't conceivably be all "among themselves" because there are only 120 merit sources total.

Also your claim about a certain deserving post lacks a link.

I have sent you 15 negative merits for wasting my time. Don't do that again.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: hilariousetc on October 19, 2018, 07:50:07 AM
OP, who exactly are you accusing of giving merits to their "friends"?  From what I've seen, it's mostly the shitposting bounty hunter families that do that, and a lot of those idiots have been tagged.  Those people wouldn't dream of giving merits to people who make posts that deserve them.

How do you know who merit sources are "friends" with anyway? 


He doesn't. He's just one of those 'the rich keep getting richer' idiots who wants to have a whinge because nobody is going to merit his half-assed posts.

Since the introduction of this merit policy, I have been following how people with merit source award the merit. One thing I have observed per the given out of this precious merit is that most people award this merit on the basis of "whom you know or who knows you". Just a few people are going by the actual brain or principle behind the institution of this merit policy. A lot of people with the merit source just share the merit among themselves forgetting about the intended purpose. At times, you could see that a certain post deserves to be rewarded because of its importance to the forum members but the otherwise happened. Now my question is "Is the merit really rewarded based on merit or whom you know?

Please I need your observations on this merit policy and its distribution.

Yes, this is how it works and we don't like people muscling in on our patch trying to take away our precious merits.

You haven't got any merits because you're a bounty hunter making average-to-shit posts. You're also plagiarising content:

Blockchain is a shared public ledger on which the entire Bitcoin network relies. All confirmed transactions are included in the block chain. It allows Bitcoin wallets to calculate their spendable balance so that new transactions can be verified thereby ensuring they're actually owned by the spender.

https://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: iasenko on October 19, 2018, 08:22:34 AM
Here is a thing I do.

If I know someone (we are talking about a post history and previous discussions with that guy/girl) I can easily give merit to his quality post as I don't really need to check if his posts are genuine and not plagiarism. Often those people have proven themselves, so there is nothing to worry about but also they get a lot more merit then others as they produce more valuable content.

If I see a good post from someone that I don't know or at least don't remember, I check first his post history, then his merit history (if any) and then if there is nothing specious or it's not a total shisposter I give him a merit. If the post stands out from his other posts I do check for plagiarism tho.

Keep in mind that there's always some exceptions from the rules as often there are other factors playing a big role while meriting someone.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: DdmrDdmr on October 19, 2018, 08:28:46 AM
<…>
Besides the post referenced by @suchmoon, there is another interesting one that dates from end of May 2018, where I analysed the factor you are on about (see  Is it true that we only send sMerit to our “buddies” ? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4361107.msg38957568#msg38957568)).

What I concluded in that post was the following:
<…>
a)   On Average (but who is an average John Doe right?), we send sMerit to 17,14% of users of our network, who have at some point also awarded us with sMerit (reciprocal). Therefore, on average, 82,86% of the people we send sMerit to have not sent us any at any time.

b)   In terms of Total sMerit, we sent 24,13% on average to out reciprocal network, and therefore 75,87% of our awarded sMerit goes to people in our network who have not awarded us with sMerit.

The above varies from rank to rank, but it goes to show that we tend to award way more to people that have not merited us at any time (non-reciprocal) yet that those who have (reciprocal).
 <…>
In conclusion: in general people do not just sMerit their buddies as shown by the averages; far from it.
It is true that one tend's to move in certain parts of the forum and reads certain topics that tend to be what one finds interesting. Those topics may have a larger presence of people that one merits and vice-versa over time, since the topics are of a common interest.
There is a difference between perception and reality at times. I recently has the feeling I was barely meriting new people out of my existing Merited Network, only to find my perception wrong by going over the numbers.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: Jet Cash on October 19, 2018, 08:29:48 AM
Do we give merits ro our friends? In my case the reverse is true. I am aware that meriting alts, or giving preference to friends, is against the spirit of the merit system. I tend to be more critical of posts by members like JackG and Helana who help with the Fit to Talk project, than I am with new members or juniors. Perhaps that is wrong, and I should try to be more objective.

However, I am having difficulty in finding good posts to merit, and that is why I'm starting my Snow Eagle site. Obviously, Snow Eagles are more likely to receive merits from me, and any other merit awarders who happen to check the lists. Are these people friends? Well I don't think so, I don't know who they are, and I have no contact with them outside the forum.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: cryptovigi on October 19, 2018, 08:59:33 AM
...
Now my question is "Is the merit really rewarded based on merit or whom you know?

Please I need your observations on this merit policy and its distribution.

Shortly:
I do not know anyone here... but I managed to get 68 merits within a month... Would I get more if I had friends here? It is possible, but I understand that your real question is: "Is it possible to get merit when you don't have ranked friends?"

That case the answer is YES! The only think you need is to think a bit and put some effort on making interesting posts...  nothing more... maybe except being patient...



Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: TheUltraElite on October 19, 2018, 09:22:11 AM
Quote
Since the introduction of this merit policy, I have been following how people with merit source award the merit. One thing I have observed per the given out of this precious merit is that most people award this merit on the basis of "whom you know or who knows you".
Those are merit sources mostly. ::)

Quote
Just a few people are going by the actual brain or principle behind the institution of this merit policy. A lot of people with the merit source just share the merit among themselves forgetting about the intended purpose.
Merit is subjective. Its not an AI-bot controlled squirting system that rains on people at random. Merit is supposed to help those who make quality contribution to rank up and not to generate the shitposting cave that we had till last year.

Quote
At times, you could see that a certain post deserves to be rewarded because of its importance to the forum members but the otherwise happened. Now my question is "Is the merit really rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
If you feel there is a sort of "favoritism" among merit sources then you are right - people tend to read posts of those who write stuff well and know how the forum works. They merit them, continue to read their posts whenever they see them in different topics.

At one time we had the Bitcoin Discussion section where proper talks used to take place. People used to know each other well by reading their posts and seeing what they reply. Now it has become a spamfest. Its time we got that back ;D


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: Ispep on October 19, 2018, 09:31:24 AM
Many users on this forum have alt accounts,high ranked users I must add, and not for one day have they merited their alts(themselves)
Jetcash hasn't merited jetAid
Thermos hasn't merited Thermos away
Hilariousandco hasn't merited Hilariousetc
LoyceV hasn't merited Loycemobile
And the list goes on and on..

It's not about friendship,as you can see they even find it difficult to merit themselves as it'll be seen as a shortcut to rank up,members of this forum don't  meet up at the club every Friday or go to watch Manchester City play at the etihad together,everything about the forum stays in here, just about quality discussions and contributions..

Just try working on your own ineptitude,and you'll surely come good sooner or later


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: guybrushthreepwood on October 19, 2018, 09:33:54 AM
I don't have any friends on here, but I am willing to sell my friendship. I don't accept merits as payment but I will accept money (address in profile). I think people just merit posts that they think are objectively good or that they agree with and there's no grand conspiracy going on here. Abuse in some form will go on though as there is obviously value and benefits to merits, and of course some people will merit their friends and alt accounts, but this is probably only a very small minority in the grand scheme of things and abusers do get caught and punished by dt users. Instead of complaining about the system though I would just accept it and look at how you can use it to your advantage -

Improve your posts
get merits
profit?

Or just make some friends on here if you believe what you say is true  :D.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: mazdafunsun on October 19, 2018, 09:44:54 AM
You are wrong, sources do not give merits to their " friends" .
I understand that for some it could seem so because a lot of times merit is awarded to same people but the problem is the quality. There is not many new memebers who have made a deserving post. I think that I am takling for all of us ( who have smerit to give) that we would love to give merits to new members but it is extremely hard to find good posts .

Also if you feel that your posts are deserving but havent been noticed , there are several threads which are meant to notice them, you can submit them.


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: Bttzed03 on October 19, 2018, 11:13:53 AM
Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know? - Some are maybe doing that.


I suggest you start visiting this board more often and read some of the threads like this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5034141.0
You'll find out that there are actually a lot of higher ranked members looking for deserving newbies to support.

There is also an active campaign against giving merit/s to spam post/s.  


Title: Re: Is merit rewarded based on merit or whom you know?
Post by: YOSHIE on October 19, 2018, 12:04:39 PM
You misjudged the truth:
Merit A system that is called (principle), and which is quite (classic) in the forum because it is already known by all members.

Merit system. The Merit system is known as a way of giving awards or things for post performance and (other good things) that are (pasted) on bitcointalk members / forum members as individuals (people per person) in the form of an increase in score.
The basic principle of the Merit system is that they must provide with posts, not with other things like you say, close people, friends etc, Giving merit there are rewards or vice versa (punishment) must be given to others who are not worthy, spamer and so on.

Since the merit regulation system was enacted, it requires all members of the forum to implement the Merit System. the popular Meritian system, that is, has always been an interesting discussion material in every meta and local forum. Many admin, monderator, donors and members. the leader of FORUM and stated that the merit system has proven very effective to work.

The merit system has drawn a lot of criticism and facts from the context of this forum, really questioning the Merit system has succeeded in pushing achievement motivation and the end of performance? Is it really sacrificing fatality at the financial burden of the forum? The system has many questions that mention quite detailed questions and some of the questions that are often asked in the forum.
As:
Code:
<> The meaning and purpose of the Merit System for bitcointalk members.
<> How the Merit System was originally implemented.
<> What are the difficulties and negative impacts on merit etc.
THE BASIC MEANING AND SYSTEM OF MERIT:

<> Merit is an English word which means "Value (or) price (not in the sense of money). Someone. For example, one can say: (Ideas and possessions) benefits and the people used are ideas.
So I affirm merit is not from the basis of friends or people are known merit based on good quality and useful.