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Exchanges- Exchanges that list these coins are a major problem like Cryptsy.

Very interesting thanks!

Aurora dev is honour man and what you talk about is bullshit .... think about it ... there 1 bio market cap but trustfully there is only 10 000 BTC inside Aurora .. it´s deeply undervalued ... only thing you have to do is count  :) If you don´t trust VISIT ICELAND!

so the airdrop is happening in less than 18 days:  what mechanism exists to distribute all of the premine coin to 300,000+ residents?  

if the developer cannot fulfill part of the coin's purpose, it is just another shitcoin.    auroracoin happens to be a shitcoin you bought into with a 50% premine.  oops. 

BUT
what if you are wrong? what if he do as he says? will you make a public apology for doing everything you can to stop something good from happening?

BUT
what if you are wrong?

BCX is stating these facts that are not in dispute:   inaccurate valuation due to 50% premine, the developer holding >95% of the coins in circulation, no liquidity, the lack of a 3rd party escrow to hold the coins, the massive opportunity to dump during the airdrop, and the lack of a structured strategy to reach 300,000 icelanders with the premined coins.  if you think he's wrong, please provide information that refutes these statements.

You're saying auroracoin can't stand up to criticism?    if you think someone simply offering a differing opinion will "stop something good from happening", the fundamentals of the coin are more fragile than bcx's warning.


This thread is a honeypot for bagholders.

The thing is even if he is wrong the entire premise of that coin is insane. Nobody here is going to be the willing bag holder simply to donate millions of dollars to strangers. By the time the air drop happens anyone holding aurora then has balls of pure steel. Either the icelanders get nothing, or people here see their BTC vanish... there are really only 2 viable outcomes.  The tiny volume that has been pumped to high value is a speck really compared to what will hit the market after air drop. You will need a ton of btc coming in then or kiss aurora back to a few cents. Who is going to put BTC in at that point? You may as well send BTC directly to them from your own pocket,.... you first.

Where do you get the Idea that BCX is "stating facts that are not in dispute" ????

For one, they ARE in dispute by many. But also what facts did I overlook that you seem to have read? All I see is presumptions, also known as "the mother of all fuckups" !!!

This man speaks the truth.  Anyone thinking otherwise is either a bag holder or delusional.

All of the facts listed are from the fucking auroracoin website and thread.

we know there was a 50% premine.  that's on the website.

we know the dev holds the coins.  that's on the blockchain.

we know there is no escrow:  the blockchain has 21 wallets with the 50% premine coins, and no escrow was discussed by the dev.

we know there' s nothing to stop the developer from dumping coins.  There is nothing to stop the developer from using the Air Drop to cover a dump.

we know there's no infrastructure or strategy in place to distribute coins to 300,000+ icelanders, and no comprehensive plan was provided by the dev.

how do you dispute facts that the developer has plainly stated?

This is a problem.  If you do not read the thread, and the website put up by the developer, or even worse, you are disputing the developers' own words and investing on what you think the coin should be,  you're fucked and you don't know it yet.  

It's extraordinary that people spend so little time and effort to research an investment before sinking money into a coin like this.  

It's crazy that it's written on the auroracoin website and announce thread, and you dispute the developer's own statements.

Thanks for your elaboration. I still have to disagree with you.

Many of the facts as you describe them are correct. The way BCX has described them however were very suggestive to say the least.


To get back to your list:

1. 50% premine: True and for a good reason
2. Dev holds coins in premined wallets: True and for obvious and detailed reasons
3. No escrow accounts: True and to me that could be an issue, but I explain shortly why it's not anymore
4. There is nothing to stop Dev from dumping: True, but he won't get far and again I have my reasons not to doubt this
5. No comprehensive plan: True, if you havent been doing your homework

So far we agree on a lot. There is another thing a agree on as well and that is that "It's extraordinary that people spend so little time and effort to research an investment before sinking money into a coin like this" as well as people who chose to bash against things for the same reason.

If you had done your research, you must have figured out by now that there is a serious group in this community that is putting in a lot of effort to create and control the initiative that has been brought to us by the dev. And I happen to be one of them, just read the posts.

One of the reasons I have no doubt anymore is the absolute devoted and serious insights this dev has (and I know from direct contact). Also there is my firm believe that if we take action upon this initiative ourselves (which is exactly what the dev wants) we can be in control.

Just take some time to investigate all the ins and outs and try to imagine what you could do to contribute.

And that's all we have to agree upon.  being optimistic or pessimistic about this coin is up for debate.  

However, the facts we do agree upon show the fundamentals of the coin are fucked, and the way the developer is handling the deployment and distribution of the coin to icelanders (i.e. the major fucking reason why the coin is supposedly valued) is fucked too.


Even though you claim to have a 'serious group', you have less than 18 days to determine how you will contact 300,000+ people and provide them with wallet software and coins.  

No matter how enthusiastic the community, if the valuation is based on 95% of the coins OUT of circulation, the valuation is not real.

No matter how enthusiastic the community, the developer still holds those coins out of escrow, and free to do with as he wishes.

No matter how enthusiastic the community, there is nothing to stop the developer from dumping coins as he wishes, whenever he wishes.

you cannot create a group reality distortion field powerful enough to overcome these major flaws in the fundamental design of this coin.

that's the point:  i'm not into debating your ideology.  You've clearly drank the auroracoin koolaid.  despite the fact you agree how i describe the coin as "correct", you ignore all of these fundamental flaws and instead deflect the discussion about your "serious group in this community".  

my contribution is to warn people about the flaws in auroracoin. i don't care about the number of coins in your wallet, your affiliation, or your group.  i'm making sure more people don't waste their energy.  

to look at it another way, the developer is taking advantage of the free labour provided by your 'serious group in this community'.  you're doing all the promotion, evangelism, and responding to all these criticisms without being paid.  Your group is working hard not for icelanders as you claim, but to make the developer rich.  that's perhaps the saddest case of all.  

Ok, I see how this works now. You only reply to the things you think you can overthrow and completely ignore the justifiable statements you can't. That is unfortunately not the way I work.

But I can ask you one question. If you are so sure the dev needs to remove himself from the airdrop, who do you think is more capable or trustworthy to take op his spot, You maybe? And how are we going to be sure it will al work out then? Theres always two ways to look at things. My perspective tells me he is staying on board to get the job done. At least now I know what has been done and is to come (you don't have to believe me, as long as I do myself).

And don't get me wrong. I won't deny the fact that some people are very sceptic and I think it's noble that you try to warn future bag holders if that is what you believe. But as well as I respect that, I hope you will respect the opposite as well and try to be a bit less suggestive.

That's all

Job done meaning drop the payload of premine onto multiple exchanges to make himself wealthy enough to buy iceland?

@BCX, I completely agree. total scam coin. This coin needs to be DEAD!

I called this scam out at the beginning. Even if the Dev had good intentions it would fail. But the fact that he played the Icelandic banking crisis card showed what he was about. Anyone that knows Iceland knows that it has remained one of the wealthiest countries based on GDP in the world. The standard of living of in Iceland is high. You give a person from Iceland $50 and he will think of it as pocket change.

If it was to the benefit of Iceland, then the coin developer shouldn't be based in Panama.  Interesting most of the auroracoin website is in english:  that tells you who the coin was designed for.  

Here's a thread in the auroracoin subreddit looking at cryptocurrencies from an icelander's point of view:


http://www.reddit.com/r/auroracoin/comments/1zsx0o/im_icelandic_and_ive_got_a_few_thoughts_about/

anybody who has the quaint notion you're doing a favour for the poor icelanders by supporting this coin:  they dont' want the fucking auroracoin, and there's still no fucking plan to distribute this coin. 

profits will go the development team who wrote such a seductive story people invested in a coin with a 50% premine. 

What led you to this understanding, links?



Link?



Where did you get the idea the dev should "notify the entire population" or that the air drop must happen within a "short time span"? Read: http://auroracoin.org/blueprint.php



Jealous much you didn't think of this first?



And how would this change the situation at all? The steps 3) to 5) could be executed just the same if the funds were in an escrow until the airdrop. Unless you're suggesting someone else would take on the huge responsibility and workload of executing the airdrop fully - you just simply can't find anyone who would do that.


There is risk in every investment, and the risk of the scam happening has already been priced in by the market.

So if he can't dump his coins now and make off like a bandit when the float is low and the price is high, how is he going to make any money after the airdrop?

Where is all the liquidity suddenly going to come from?  Are you planning on providing it?

At first blush it seems as if LTEX gets to provide a bunch of addresses purported to belong to Icelanders, as part of personal little contact and deal with the dev, and illodin too knows it is a scam thus expects that someone would be jealous of the riches the scammers aka dev and promotion team expect to make with this scam... So maybe illodin too expects to be part of the beneficiaries of the laundering aka airdrop...

-MarkM-

Now that's odd, because earlier you said:


So the coin has attracted too much pre-mine value.  According to your thesis a more moderate rise in price would have led to more liquidity and greater ease of disposing of the coins.  Because of course a lesser increase in value would have attracted more market participants.  Right.

I've already gotten enough benefits from this coin, all that possibly happens after the airdrop and months/years to come is just a bonus. Also possible that nothing happens!

OP +1

do you fucktards ever do any research?? he's stated the airdrop will start on the 25th but over the following year will the distribution find it's way to the roughly 330,000 Icelandic citizens.. BY your logic, you believe all 330,000 citizens will get their coins on the 25th.. It's because of that fucked up logic that people like you have spread mass panic to the masses to avoid the coin..

I think only thing to ask is: icelanders will get their auroras?
Of course we all regret that litecoin proved to be as irrelevant as any other alty thing... we all lost money with that... (at least I did...)  but lets try to be fair with auroracoin and icelanders... me too I have no auroras in the sky in my country to party at night... but I try to be fair.
I would like to see several altys for any country... even if my BTCs going back to USD 0.05 (you see... USD is a currency of just another country like Iceland or Spain... no big deal... at least for me... I am an european - EUR)

If there is a planned distribution of coins to over 300,000 icelanders, but You're likely unable to use Kennitala (social security ID), you'll be unable to access island.is (federal government), and you'll find people unwilling to provide their passport numbers, how the fuck will you individually identify icelanders to distribute the coins?

It makes no fucking difference whether it's supposed to happen on day 1, or over 10 years:  in fact, by arguing it will happen over a year, you're actually limiting the adoption of the fucking coin.  i thought you wanted people NOT to 'avoid the coin', yet you are suggesting this happen on the launch day.  

you're expecting a rush on this coin because it's worth so much, and that means a quarter million icelanders will want the fucking coin on the 25th.  at least one person in this thread has claimed this coin is undervalued, so shouldn't the dev have their shit together?  

if the developer doesn't have significant resources devoted to the coordinated distribution of coins, then the coin is overvalued.




no need to invent something to panic about:  auroracoin doesn't have the fucking hashrate to justify its value.  

if you can't protect the blockchain, the coin is overvalued.  

Now you're just playing stupid, which is obvious, but better to state it here that no one does actually believe that.

maybe he already gots a plan in place bro

wat I don't understand is... if u was gona premine scam with this laundering u talkin about... right.. and then ur coin suddenly becomes worth 6 million dollars.. why wouldn't u sell the premine then? would cryptsy have shut down the exchange if u moved it before u got a chance to get it there? or locked the accounts being transferred it?

cause at the high point, had u sold to 0, im not sure what it was worth but probably a lot for writing a nice story about Iceland and getting a coin made.

so it seems that they not only messed up the plan, but they also missed exit point b, if you are in fact correct about this being a scam. (of the century)

I don't think he(the dev) can sell them!

1. We will find out if he tries to sell them!
2. We will stop mining if he tries to sell them!
3. He can't move the coins if no one is mining! 0 confirmations!

Ok respectfully I will try;

Who could take up this responsibility? A board member with an alias that sounds like he is from a computergame, stating in his profile he is a 6 year old girl? No off course not! It needs to be a respectful member of real life society, one that is publicly known and has very much to lose if he fucks up.

Even if we could find such a person stupid enough to take that burden, it also gives the banks and government the possibility to seize the funds and kill the project. Same reason he can't reveil his identity (yet). The whole idea is to take that control away from them!

What a load of unmitigated FUD this thread is.

If I was doing this project I'd handle it exactly the way the dev already has. There's no way I'd hand over the airdrop to an escrow body or anybody else. The only 'escrow' body that has any significance in this is the Icelandic citizens themselves.

Fair enough if people think he might be scamming - I don't, I've no reason to - but who cares ? Just wait and find out. The project is very public so it will either be a very public, exciting initiative or a very public scam and it's clear that even though we don't, many people know the developer's identity.


This can be done using IsLykill (Icekey) for example. The Icekey links a person's verified identity (previously done by the person turning up with personal ID at a bank or having the Icekey sent to their registered legal domicile) to the 'Kennitala' which is their public ID number.

Think of it this way - the Kennitala is an Icelandic person's 'public key', the Icekey (IsLykill) is their private key. So to obtain their Aurora, they would log on to the airdrop website, enter their 'Kennitala' and also enter their 'IsLykill' which would then have a blockchain address and associated private key sent to their email address, home or secure bank-account associated 'inbox' which the banks host. (Or maybe even a pre-configured wallet.dat file).

This initiative is visionary in so many ways. Whether it is successful is just a question of extent. It clearly is going to massively expose the 'emperors clothes' syndrome of the fiat banks by demonstrating that the citizens are just as capable of creating their own money as a central bank is.

It also will be a huge advance in introducing the idea of cryptocurrencies to an entire nation.

I'm sick of people attaching the 'scam' tag to anything and everthing that they happen to be cluless about. Wait and see what the result is before posting all this nonsense.

EDIT: Regarding the valuation, the coin is trading this morning at a healthy $20. So all it's doing is going through all the same machinations as Bitcoin has. It's not been dumped at all. About 10 days ago it was $5. The fact that it has any value at all and that it will entitle every single Icelander to a cryptocurrency 'asset' worth at least $600 - so more than $2000 per typical family - is phenomenal. It is a kind of 'reverse taxation' which isn't going to go un-noticed. The marketcap of the airdrop (Aurdrop ! :) ) itself is now a significant portion of Icelandic government annual tax revenues. So shut up with the FUD unless you know what you're talking about and get behind this.

I say you are a pathethic human being trying to justify your stupid move to destroy currency that actually can help a whole Nation. Icelandic krona has been deflating so much that word dump is a holy word if you look how krona has been dumped by their bankers.

I have never met a scammer whou would not sell 10 000 000 of units when price was 90USD for one.On that day he coult undercut all orders on poloniex, cryptsy, cryptorush and mintpal and gain literally million dollars. According to your retarded logic he has some better plan.

But as yourself said people will dump the coin right before airdrop because they will be scared he will dump it. A three years old logic and a good one. So why he did not dump now? Well yeah, it is not a scam, thats why.

Another argument of yours - with the third party holding the coins. You are totally delusional thinking somebody here has the will to "hold" a 2-3nd currency on coinmarketcap. Its one thing escrow 1BTC another 1000s.

So after you  have been told how much pathethic and retarded you are , you made this shitty excuse for some argument why auroracoin should be destroyed

+1 to this. And I want to add some other things:

- coinmarketcap: WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT COINMARKETCAP? That site is 10x more useless than the idea of this coin. Only noobs buy coins judged by their position/raise on here.
- Promotion? This dev didn't even promote his own coin alot, yes he updates some things on twitter, but what he did NOT do is bump this topic everyday, telling people to mine, etc. He just posted plain updates, and news articles, when this coin was extremely under the radar a few weeks back. He didn't do ANY effort to promote his coin on here. U know why? Because again, most people here are idiots anyway, and the dev cares about actual use of his coin rather than all the babies here crying all the time.
- Exposure. Now that his coin gets a lot of exposure everyone is calling it a scam suddenly? Again, this coin has been out for a long time, and YOU, yes: YOU! All the people from this forum PUMPED this coin to the max. The dev didn't do ANYTHING but come up with the idea and the plan. This whole forum made it a pump & dump (yes, that's what it is now). The dev just wants to try something interesting. For his sake, this coin is worth the same as that it was a few weeks back (yes, that is still 10x lower than what it is worth now).
- ESCROW? The dev didn't even dump when the price went x30 in 3 days timespan. What more do you want from him? He is totally entitled to not use ESCROW. Especially not someone from here (again, he probably hates this forum). And another thing: why the hell should he use escrow now that the coin is in the spotlights? He owned his coins for a long time. No reason why he should give them away to someone else now.

These are just some points that i came up with. The people are are responsible for pumping this coin to heaven, and now they are crying about the dev and shit? The dev doesn't owe you anything. I am very curious what will happen either way, during the airdrop.

The trouble with this discussion is that most participants can't see the difference between facts and assumptions.

Let me demonstrate:

fact 1: The coin is 50% pre mined

I think we can all agree that this is indeed a fact. Now comes the transition:

Assumtion 1 (By the opposers): It's a scam because, the coin is 50% pre mined
Assumtion 1 (By the supporters): Dev is honest because he directly confessed the coin is 50% pre mined

You see what happens? The fact remains in place, but there has been put an addition to it. It's this addition that disqualifies the frase as a fact.

Funny part is, you can use this neat trick also the other way around and turn an assumption into a fact, again a demonstration:

Assumtion A: "BitcoinEXpress is the most genius member of this forum!"

Again I think we can all agree that we could fill pages of discussions between supporters and opponents.

Now we do our little trick:

Fact A: "If all other members would leave, BitcoinEXpress is the most genius member of this forum!"

So.... Lets try to keep this in mind next time when we waste valuable time on opposing each others "facts".

Theres no shame if one disagrees, as long as we can agree to disagree agreeably!

CHEERS  ;D

 ::) You guys are just hilarious, why on earth iceland gov would provide that icekey service to use in this case ?
Got dammit is unbelievable to see such a many auroracoin groupies, this coin is obviously at least "murky".
The air-drop sounds like a joke without any decent realistic way of distribute the coin.

And from the basic economics perspective, what would happen to the price if supply suddenly explode ?

Hi, you are absolutely right, Icelandic Gov most likely will not provide this. On the other hand, I have slightly put the puzzle together and begin to see how it can be done. I also know it would be unwise just now to reveil this in detail, because certain parts still need to be secured before hackers start to anticipate on it. Dev and others are making great progress tough in securing all angles.

One misunderstanding I see in many posts also is to think the airdrop wil take place in a couple of days. This is absolutely not the plan, because that would indeed be impossible. There is however a very good plan that will give everyone in Iceland a fair chance to verifiably proclaim their AUR within one year.

Regarding the price, to me that seems irrelevant. The important part is that the coin wil find it's place in the Icelandic economy and starts to get used. It's not the amount of coins in traffic that determine its price, it's the value that will be stored into it once in circulation.

I'm sorry, but you're the clown in this case.

The Icekey - contrary to what you incorrectly assert - is not provided at the discretion of the Icelandic "Government".

It is a general purpose internet based authentication tool which any citizen can obtain upon provision of appropriate ID. You're not required to say why you need it - in fact the authorities positively encourage people to obtain it since it promotes better internet security and is used for all kinds of services.

All you've done with this post is to demonstrate how little substance there is to the 'scam' accusations made in this thread. A bunch of attention seeking drama queens making all kinds of speculative assumptions without any basis.

Yes, the Auroracoin developer COULD be scamming everybody. But it looks increasingly unlikely and as others have pointed out, it's difficult to see what he now has to gain from it - apart from crashing the market and making off with a few thousand bucks which is probably far less attractive to him that the much more challenging prize of making a genuine impact upon the Icelandic society.

taken directly from the god damn website: http://auroracoin.org/airdrop.php

The Airdrop will start to take place on March 25th 2014 and will target as many Icelanders as possible. There are various means of authenticating Icelanders on the Internet, that will be utilized to execute the Airdrop. About 330,000 Icelanders will be made able to claim f 31.8 each over the following year from the initiation of the Airdrop.

The Airdrop will provide Icelanders with a great opportunity to get to know Auroracoin and use it in their daily lives. It will as well provide a way for them to reach outside the confines of the currency controls.

The Airdrop will be a gift to each and every recipient, for him or her to spend or save.

Further detail on the Airdrop will be posted once it is under way.


You're a fucking piece of shit and purposely trying to destroy the currency by claiming the Dev is going to do something when it says specifically that on the March 25th the Airdrop starts and throughout the year it will take to distribute the coins..

I'm seeing a trend on this thread.. you got the shit talkers that are trying to destroy this coin so they can get it as low as they can before they buy up all of them and then mega pump and dump them.. Typical Rothschild Jew banker mentality.. 

My internet must be different than your internet.  Please quote the part where the developer says he would deliver all the coins on the 25th.

There is indeed FUD in this thread, but it's better to create FUD on a coin and put away some potential investors, than leave people holding bags.

After such a long discussion and unless I missed something, being a scam or not is still dependent on TRUST, on a anonymous person's "say-so", which will not suffer punishment for scamming. "You'll just have to trust me" ...

Considering the abundant # of scams and losses in the crypto-currency scene (at least the alts) that damages people's livelihoods and compromises the future, I actually support the OP's stance on this. If his agenda and of his supporters (respected members of the Bitcoin community) is actually attacking ALL alts that may have potential to credibly compete with Bitcoin, then I have to say it's short-sighted.

Politely pointing that fact out is a long way away from categorically stating that it is a "blatant scam".

So far, the project has been very professionally planned and executed. It has been about as transparent as it's possible to be without relying on a whole load of counterparties and loosing control of the thing.

It isn't the developer's problem that the valuation went into orbit before stabilising at a more reasonable level - in fact he's on record as stating that it was not necessarily desirable and became 'overheated'. People investing in cryptocurrencies expose themselves to massive risk whatever coin they are buying.

Contrary to what you suggest, helpful advice is not what's being offered in this thread, rather out and out mindless propaganda. Funny how its appearance coincides with an 70% valuation loss of the coin. Maybe I should start one called "SOURED AURORA BAGHOLDERS THROW TOYS OUT OF PRAM".

If would have about as much basis in fact as this one has  ;)

________________________________________
Warning: Low flying bagholder teddy bears

To be honest about it, a scam in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
All the altcoin haters in the bitcoin community need to hold up a mirror and have a hard look. It is bitcoin scams that are in the news every day, not altcoins.

The pot is calling the kettle black LOL

~~XCB~~

The auroracoin website does not seem to even provide the most basic important information such as how the blockchain is secured or is to be secured.

That information can tell you right away in some cases of a scam because for example if they use scrypt it is for sure a scam, scrypt being the least secure of all hashing methods, even litecoin didn't manage to secure their chain with enough hashing power, as DOGE demonstrated by conjuring up enough hashing power almost overight that it could have blown litecoin away. Litecoin was lucky that particular stupid meme was only conjuring up hashing power for yet another "me too" coin rather than conjuring it up for the purpose of attacking litecoin. DOGE showed how much hashing power just a stupid meme can conjure up, thus setting a bar for how much hashing power it would take for an scrypt coin to even defend against an attack by means of stupid meme let alone a serious attack. So basically anyone who throws together a coin using scrypt is ab initio a scammer since they are ab initio trying to scam people into investing into a coin that cannot be secured. Oh unless, that is, they first build enough hashing farms to exceed the hashing power of litecoin/DOGE so they can actually have some indication they might afterall be able to secure their blockchain...

-MarkM-

The whole basis of this project is the relative logistical "ease" with which this can be acheived.

Try reading the thread before you troll.

I'm slowly beginning to think you must be somewhat impaired in a communicational sense. I will sum up some of my decent and respectful answers you have asked me to give. After that I will leave it up to your brilliance because mine somehow seems to be unable to sync with yours:

1. 50% pre mine is part of the essence of the coin and it's prophecy. The fact (which you called the only real question) that Balduro has not used or will use an escrow has been answered by me in this thread and you havent even responded to it!:


2. Also this has been answered by me, same quote above! You like to act as if you are a big bitcoin man, carieing lots. Would you be willing to share with the rest of the wordl how many you have (proven) and where you live? Let alone the dev of this coin that faces a serious threat from banks (who have been known for wacking people for less)

3. Also this has been widely explained on many occasions. The plan is there and it most certainly is not impossible. Again, it is not wise just yet to fully disclose all details because several security measures to withhold early attempts from hackers (like you, so to say) are being still implemented.

4. This is actually pretty easy, because all transactions from the pre mined wallets can be verified and linked to the actual receiver. You'll see!

5. This could be the case if you think there is a plan where the airdrop might be misused, but haven't you stated in your third point no such plan exists?

I will remain willing to provide you all with decent answers, but in return I ask you to seriously and decently form educated questions instead if randomly placed summaries of assumptions (see my earlier post on that).


Cheers, LTEX

A security analysis of a crypto-coin system must include not only the security of the block chain but the security of the network and infrastructure.
By this measure (infrastructure security) people have lost more bitcoins than all the altcoins combined

Isn't it irresponsible to launch a coin as significant as bitcoin without secure infrastructure ?

Again: this thread is The Pot is Calling the Kettle Black.

Ok, you still don't seem to get it, I guess I'll let it go...

I do see a nice similarity between you and Balduro though. Both say to have a plan that works, but neither of the two of you is willing to personally come foreward and explain in exact detail how they are going to do it!

So unless you are willing to disclose in full how you are going to exploit your KGW threat, I suggest we both leave this bullshit and wait to see what happens ;-)




[/quote]

Well no hard feelings but, Altcoins are like groceries, while bitcoin is gold.
Now think yourself, which robbery will be in news.

With respect, your gold is looking just a little tarnished these days.

Who would rationally contest, and on what basis, the assertion that losses to bitcoin holders thru infrastructure insecurity (and yes, this includes the exchanges) are orders of magnitude larger than any in the altcoin world ?

Fools and their money...

It's quite incredible how people fall for even the most obvious of scams. The anonymous dev has some of these users eating out of his palm and liking his feet clean.

Here's something for the muppet supporters to thinks about (and I want you to think about it really hard); how will the dev prove that even 10% of the Icelandic population even received a single AUR? And no, don't tell me that by the amount of active wallet addresses. A wallet address proves nothing; it doesn't prove an Icelander is the owner of that wallet address.

The fact that the Air Drop is going to be gradual gives the dev and a small crew the perfect cover to dump AUR at their leisure 31 coins at a time from address to address without anyone knowing who is dumping. Couple of random addresses dump anywhere between 0 and 20 to give the illusion that some people are holding; and you have the perfect cover right there.

The only way I can see something like AUR working as "intended" (and I'm using that word lightly since I believe it's intent is being an outright scam) is if the Icelandic government or another trusted Icelandic body with trustworthy credibility was in charge of the pre-mine and the Airdrop. It would also have to be covered by credible media outlets reporting directly from Iceland (no, not some blogger, I mean camera crews in people's homes showing the Air Drop being recieved).

Only then would this plan be credible; but then you run into problem #2. Who the fuck wants to give strangers their money for absolutely nothing in return? You want a charity? Then create a charity, find supporters and call it a fucking day. It's one thing to donate to a charity from your cryptocurrency, but it's a completely different thing to create a cryptocurrency which it's sole purpose is to bail-out a whole country riding on the backs of everyone else's money.

Losses thru such crap in the fiat world are even larger.

Of course larger fortunes lead to larger losses.

Steal billions of grains of sand and how big a loss to anyone is that?

Steal billions of barrels of oil though and gee the losses hurt more.

Larger hoards / larger markets lead to larger targets which lead to larger losses.

If altcoins suddently were each and all worth billions of dollars per coin while bitcoin remaiend at less than $1000 per coin the losses in altcoins would exceed the losses in bitcoins.

The percentage though of individials or of individual transactions or of individual online services might be more revealing.

Overall though the mere fact that only idiots throw away good wealth on garbage altcoins probably tends to mean garbage altcoins lose more people money - thankfully though probably less money per loss though.

-MarkM-

Anyone else notice a trend with this BCX douchebag. 

After starting numerous threads bashing AUR it is quite obvious he has some sort of hidden agenda.

Hmmm...Trying to stir up a shitstorm and crash the market to buy up cheap coin before the airdrop?  Definitely a more likely scenario than the "I'm just a benevolent hacker, trying to save everyone from a scam "

And tell me this you moron, how the fuck are you helping anybody by trying to destroy the coin.  You would be achieving the same result as the developer "IF" it were a scam.  The only difference is that you would stand to benefit. 

So come clean about your true agenda or fuck off.




 

So what is your point ? Other than slinging some mud at altcoins ?

look! the scam is growing in value today... that's not supposed to happen!!!

BCX.... Go Fuck Yourself Sideways!!!

You can't possibly be saying that the dev deserves to profit from the scam since he's the one who came up with the scam, right? I mean seriously, how daft are you? Nobody want to buy AUR just to lose their money, which is exactly what has already happened and will happen again when suddenly the market gets and extra 1.5 million coins be it by dev dump Air Drop scam or by a real Air Drop to Icelanders.

Since no one, not even the dev can prove this coin to not be a scam and the fact that every single concept of this coin screams "SCAM SCAM SCAM" (why these thing haven't raised red flags with some of you is just fucking amazing BTW); I feel this coin deserves to die, so I truly hope BCX puts this scam coin on it's knees and kills it permanently.


Nobody has said that it won't go up again in value before the air drop. In fact, it'll keep going up and down until right before the air drop starts because you muppets keep pumping and dumping it.

How ironic ! A person participating in a forum dedicated to crypto coins implemented using a p2p decentralized architecture which operates without the need for trust is asserting the need for a central authority as the final arbiter of fact !

ROFL

And I suppose you feel better that the dev and only the dev be the central authority of the distribution of AUR to the 300,000+ residents of Iceland?

But let's move on, since you obviously took that out of context. I said if they were in charge of the Air Drop, I didn't say they be the only one involved in the Air Drop. This would ensure accountability in the distribution of the entire pre-mine to every single resident of Iceland.

But hey, I suppose this is all going way over your heads.

ZeroBarrier, read my post again.

I'm saying that BCX is committing a logical error.  He states his intentions for attempting to destroy the coin are so that he prevents the developer from dumping the pre-mined coins on the market (preventing the "scam").  By destroying the coin, it will effectively lose all its value.  In both situations, those that hold AUR will lose all their money.

In this case, BCX is doing nothing to help, but is intentionally trying to harm others.

So until he reconciles this fact, he can kindly go fuck himself.  

It is probably not going over their heads, more likely they are profiting from the scam, either by being in on it or by mining it or by pump-and-dumping it or by trading it (aka by profiting from the pump and dump of it) or some combination thereof.

-MarkM-

Yeah your intellectual acuity has us all gasping for breath.

Spurious allegations will get you nowhere. Even with 400 amps L)L

I think you actually mean "how does he prove it to the 'fucktard trolls' on Bitcointalk" and the answer thankfully is that he doesn't have to.

The only people he has to prove anything to are those with a verifiable Icelandic ID number and you'll soon know if there's a problem there because there'll be forum threads full of disaffected Icelandic crypto-nerds complaining that they or their families or people they know were unable to pick up their quota, so stop inventing BS straw man arguments.


LoL ! Really ? So you're conclusion as to the rise in this coin's valuation is that people want to "bail a country out" as opposed to profit from speculation. I'll let others decide how plausable that idea is. Suffice to say that, scam or not, this project has already made a lot of speculators very rich and it isn't the Icelandic nation.

This could be a load of BS, but hey caveat emptor.  Its the same with FIAT and the same with stocks etc.. gamble with the principle you might get burned.

Seriously, the sheer mass of Alt currencies is what is keeping speculators going, I'm happy to admit I made a few coin buying and selling AUR, its was fun, I was never going to get rich on it. A potential Air Drop of 300k+ of coins isnt a great way of protecting the currency though, perhaps air dropping them first would have helped?  

I've looked at both side to this discussion and frankly neither holds up well to scrutiny. Yup, it could be a scam but I draw your attention to the second line above. Caveat Emptor, it's not great use of Latin but it seems to fit.

Just because somebody is unwilling to do something doesn't prove their guilt or otherwise, Accusing somebody is simply part of the anonymity of the internet shining through, you need a modicom of truth or doubt to perpetuate your story, and lets face it, the "blatant scam" theory hasn't been proven one tiny little bit. Likewise, a website is cheap and quick to make.

Arguing about it here does nothing more than postcount+1

The dev doesnt appear willing to discuss it, a number of the allegations are without foundation.

  

Oh guess what aur is 50% up...somebody bought cheap aur  it seems!

Unfortunately speculators will speculate..

There are 320,137 people in Iceland.  You're not going to get something to each and every one of them for less than the price of (paper) postage.  So unless somebody is coming forward with about $200K in actual cash for stamps, plus 640 reams of paper, 321 large boxes of envelopes, enough printers to push that many paper wallets through in a week, and a whole lot of volunteers to handle the operation and take that truckload of paper down to the local post office (where they will curse at you and delay it at least another week), this isn't going to happen.

1) You said you are going to test AUR and if it dies you dont care. Obviously you try to twist your words because you are a slave of your ego.
2) You said it is a scam, again you are twisting words to suit you
3)True = you are moron, you dont have the ability to see the AUR potentional.
4) The reason you posted is because you are an attention whore. Next time post on auroracoin forum, cause thats where MOST holders are active.

Do it fag, I dare you. Just delete this account and do your quiet fag test in silence.

I want to hire you to write everything for me from now on. like srsly I fkn love this guy.

*edit* one more:


10/10 LOL :D

ugh... Market Cap is the measure of how many total shares or in this case total coins are available multiplied by the current offering price.. How would it be designed to inflate itself?? It's going up because people are buying up the coins at lower prices, which creates demand, which in turn drives the price up..

Just saw a C130 and it was dropping coins from the sky.

Why people thought it wasn't a scam is puzzling to me. It screams "scam" even more than your typical scamcoin. The claim was too grand, and anyone with an iota of intelligence would see right through it.

Doge is another puzzling case to me. It was was funny for about  3-days, then it wasn't funny at all.

But people are pretty stupid. The developers of both the above coins managed to get a few thousand kids to act as shills and it worked.

No offence meant to the developer of Doge ... you played the system and won.

The Icelandic crap, though, is treading on dangerous ground, with a developer making promises to a community which he knows he cannot possibly meet. This makes Auroracoin a grade-A scam. 

agreed, that poster is extremely articulate, he should be hired by Hallmark greeting cards. OP please post more zany zingers !  =)

he is a great frontman for auroracoin in general.  a true example of what the auroracoin community will turn into when it becomes yesterday's dogecoin.  

not that brilliant a scam, i never mined this, never will
the reasons are obvious

Agree except i think doge is the worst ever
it's designed to be 'innocent' looking but was obviously a well financed & backed project to turn not only the alt coin world into a circus but even these & other forums.

it will be pretty funny when the plug gets pulled & a lot of fools were left holding the bag

if they were foolish enough to waste btc or hashpower on this  they deserve to lose it

another 12 year old joins the BCT moralist society. Its starting to sound like a circle jerk in here.

Such judgement. Many sour. Very hate..

~~WOW~~

Defiantly going to be an interesting one to watch unfold. I haven't been convinced enough myself as of yet so personally i don't have any interests in mining Auroacoin. Still like i said its going to be interesting at least.

But for anyone involved I do hope it works out well for you guys!

Happy mining!

No such thing as bad publicity. All this thread is accomplishing is bringing AUR to the attention of a wider audience.

Let's all assume for a minute that the air drop is legit. If that happens to be the case, then we immediately get to another issue. Will the Icelandic people use the coins as a form of currency or will they just exchange them for BTC leaving the bagholders with millions of useless coins?

Since they aren't going to be able to secure the blockchain they would be stupid NOT to cash the heck out as soon as possible.

-MarkM-

And how are you certain that they will not be able to protect the blockchain?

What is the difficulty/hashrate?

Even litecoin had such tiny hashrate that a stupid meme was able to conjure up as much hash or more almost overnight.

Does Auroracoin have more than litecoin or DOGE?

Even litecoin ad DOGE are borderline, each vulnerable even just to the hashing power of the other let alone if you consider all the other hashers out there that are not hashing either of them.

One "PWN the blockchains!" meme could wipe out pretty much any non merged mined scrypt coin it chose and maybe either litecoin or DOGE as well, simply by whipping up as much almost-overnight hash rate as DOGE did. DOGE showed how vulnerable all those coins are, so vulnerable just some stupid meme could conjure enough hashing to PWN them. It is lucky that DOGE was not a "PWN the blockchains" meme but just a "yet another crapcoin" meme. The next meme might not be so gentle.

-MarkM-

http://sancrypto.info/index/show/AUR/

Auroracoin has 11Ghash maintaining the blockchain.  11,000mhash protects $300M of supposed 'market cap.' 

11Ghash is not a lot of GPU.  There are scrypt mining pools that dwarf auroracoin (e.g. middlecoin has 15Ghash).  a large enough pool could take auroracoin for a ride and usurp the blockchain by mistake.  a small cartel of miners with malicious intent could inflict tremendous damage on the blockchain.

This vulnerability is shared by basically all coins except bitcoin.  

When figuring out what a currency is worth, the security of the blockchains should be considered.  if the blockchain cannot be sufficiently distributed, the risk of transaction reversals or intentional forks should destroy any value in that coin.   Because of this vulnerability most coins are overvalued.  

nice point, but just a question about bitcoin: ok the total hash power is immense but a pool has >%40 hashpower alone and just two pools together suffice to exceed 50%, how about that? Almost no coin's blockchain is really secure. And markm, if I got it correct you call scrypt as a hashing alg insecure? If yes, would u explain pls? thx.

markm and bcx has seen lots of scams in crypto-currency world and I personally give an ear as they are experienced and not messing around, rather warning. I am in the middle, a little bit more on the side assuming aur might be scam, just to be cautious, being safe is better than being sorry maybe.

And pls don't go harsh on each other guys will u? We are all here to share ideas, maybe warn each other, not to be take offense, seriously. If you consider aur as a good investment, go ahead and buy, no-one is holding you back, but just be aware of the risks, be aware that you are trusting a guy with all your investment, and that is what it is.

the issue of the btc blockchain has been discussed exhaustively on btctalk, and there are many threads discussing your scenario.  take a look also at the "weaknesses" section in bitcoin:  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

if two pools combine to exceed 50% of network hashrate this is problematic, but likely this is also accidental.  this has happened to many coins before, and because it's unintentional, we can come to an agreement to correct the forked chain.  there is a difference between an accidental 51% scenario, and a malicious one.  

It would be almost impossible to maliciously attack the bitcoin blockchain, as the bitcoin network hashrate is 28,400,000 Ghash. https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

In contrast, auroracoin has only 11ghash protecting it.  it would be quite easy for a single user or company to attack and fork auroracoin.  there are many users on this forum with more than 11Ghash working right now e.g.:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg547977#msg547977  

i'm not saying any of these users are malicious, but it's entirely possible for a single person to possess enough hash power to damage auroracoin.  compared to auroracoin blockchain, bitcoin is near impossible to attack in this fashion.  

11ghash is not that many video cards.  

This is exactly the point i was making earlier:  most coins are insecure.  due to the insecurity, most coins are overvalued.  This point of vulnerability is almost never talked about in the altcoin forum, but it is a huge issue.  

if i can't lock my house, then i wouldn't leave anything valuable in there.  Similarly, i wouldn't put much value into a coin i could not secure.  

I read this differently:  I'm offering a contrarian viewpoint, and backing up my argument with facts.  

most of the shitslinging in this thread are from people defending auroracoin!  it's the auroracoin community that are taking offense.

bohemianstalker:

also Azeh:

and lphelps:


and illodin:

these are the people that come to the defense of auroracoin.  IMO this thread has brought out the very worst in the auroracoin community.  before you tell anybody not to "go harsh", take a look at the conduct from both sides of the debate.  


there are no virgins in this thread.  

When a pool comes close to 50% of the hashing power warnings go around trying to warn everyone to switch pool.

Some pools close themselves to new users when they get too much hashpower.

It would be nice if the idiots who call themselves "miners" but are really just "dumb hashers who do not actually construct blocks themselves but rather just blindly do dumb idiot-work for a real miner aka a pool" were not so frackin stupid as to use any pool that has more than maybe 25%, or better 20%, or better 1/6th, or even better 1/7th etc of the hashpower.

Ideally they should all each run their own copy of p2pool so they would be truly distributed instead of being dumb idiots blindly empowering potential attackers by using centralised pools at all.

p2pool exists for a reason. Use it. Yourself, not someone else's copy.

If you'd prefer more or prettier tables and charts, offer bounties to get them developed for p2pool.

-MarkM-

Is there, in fact, any way to motivate people to mine individually, rather than as part of pools? 

I see pools as one of the biggest problems to overcome in an altcoin design.  Not the only big problem, but one of the biggest.  What I see though is that everybody wants to be part of a pool.  They don't even *know* how to mine solo, even though it's bog-simple compared to setting up a pool. 

p2pool is a distributed pool.

Each miner runs their own copy of p2pool themselves on their own machine, yet they get the variance-smoothing between them all as if they are all one big pool. Without the dangers of letting someone else construct the block you are going to hash so that no "pool operator" can have you work on an attack block.

-MarkM-

I think they are using that missing Malaysian airlines plane.... filling it with AUR as we speak...???

As far as I can tell the dev has yet to reveal any concrete and/or verifiable way for the distribution of said Air Drop.

What's even more confusing is how AUR supporters haven't yet figured out that there is 0 infrastructure for AUR in Iceland; and yet they continue to believe this magical Air Drop isn't a blatant scam.

I'll tell you what though. This Air Drop is designed as the near perfect dump scam. It's designed in a way that won't negatively affect the price until people realize that the Icelandic population aren't really receiving AUR. My best guess is that up to 10% of the prime might actually go to residents of Iceland to cover up who's really dumping this coin.

Indeed I am talking about a malicious one, for the large enough pools, the network hashrate is irrelevant in case of a 51% attack. Truthfully, the fact that this is argued extensively in the forum and bitcoin wiki does not prevent such a possibility. It is known that a 30% hash power pool has also a serious chance to succeed in such an attack. From weaknesses section that you suggested, under "strong hash power attack" title;

A profit-seeking person will always gain more by just following the rules, and even someone trying to destroy the system will probably find other attacks more attractive. However, if this attack is successfully executed, it will be difficult or impossible to "untangle" the mess created -- any changes the attacker makes might become permanent.

Assuming a profit seeking person must be virtuous, and smart enough to be virtuous is simply utterly wrong. A profit seeker might also be stupid enough to do stupid things.The current solution by developers to a 51% attack is to warn miners to use alternative pools, and miners are known to be dumb and we can not blame to be not knowledgeable enough to educate themselves. Some pool owner may wish to just go out of the game and wish to kill the price so he may buy more, or apply a double spend attack with a so immense amount that sacrificing his long term gains to his short term gains might seem ok to them. You can not argue that, no pool operator would do that. For some reason, a pool operator or two may wish to do that and that is a problem. They should be able to wish, but should not technically be able to successfully perform such an attack. The value of your and our money should not be in their hands and can not rely on wishful thinking in such a case.

That above is the greatest current risk of bitcoin I believe and the fact that it did not happen can nowhere mean it won't. "Hopefully it does not happen", does not mean anything either as we are talking about a protocol decentralizing trust and yeah to the currently existing pool operator guys, you have to trust. 1 in a 1000 scenarios: "what if FBI gives money to the pool operator to kill bitcoin?" Would be much simpler than building their own 50% hash power farm ya? You think they wouldn't bribe? You believe that all pool operators will keep on the side of bitcoin? Think again.

I know Andreas Antonopolus gives speeches such as "we have our own measures to apply in case of a 51% attack" but I have nowhere seen him explaining exactly what they are gonna do after such an attack. I can not think of anything else than manually correcting blockchain. Indeed I like the guy, he is the man, seems highly rational and knowledgeable but it does not mean every word comin out his mouth is truth. He predicted that mtgox would come up alive and people would get 100% ROI when the goxcoin price went down to 200$, and he even tweeted about his prediction.

from your quote:

Personally, I don't know what the AUR dev is planning to do with the pre-mine. Everything here is just conjecture. I can understand why some people are suspicious. I can understand why some people are hopeful and trusting. It won't be long before we find out. Enough noise has been made about this issue here that it would be reasonable to assume that anyone interested in the subject has already received as much information/warning as they need to make a  decision.

Having said that, I think it is ironic that the bitcoin community is so focused on this issue at a time when it is clear that the biggest frauds and scams in the history of crypto-currencies are taking place in the bitcoin world, not the altcoin world. Wouldn't it be nice if bitcoin people spent as much time trying to get their own house in order before going OCD on AUR ?

~~XCB~~

For obvious reasons I agree! I also think both supporters and opposers of this coin (or any other) have had more than enough airtime on this forum so that any interested party can make up their own minds by now.

Personally I do think however that the fundamentals and principals behind Auroracoin are very well tight into the Bitcoin community as well. Of course Bitcoin has had it's share of scams and deceits and also has Auroracoin been accused of the same (without factual proof jet though).

The outcome of the Auroracoin initiative will in the end very much though have its impact on where Bitcoin is going. If it succeeds, it wil have proven that cryptocurentcy can really take it's place in a real economy, setting a mayor milestone in the landscape. If it fails, Bitcoin will probably take a bigger hit than all the  Gox debacles together.

So maybe it's time to put aside the bashing back and forth and just wait and see what will happen. Meanwhile I'm going to try my best to make the coin a success.

I don't care if people start smelling bag holders here either, I probably will smell the most, holding so many bags. But hey, some of those bags are pretty heavy and contain coins like BTC and LTC as well. And guess what, Ive been called a bag holder when they were at less than 1% of their current value ;-)

What a lame and evasive reply. I agree that it would be very hard to equate AUR to BTC. More people have lost more money due to fraud and/or insecure infrastructure in the bitcoin world than anything that has happened in the altcoin world.

~~XCB~~

About that "PWN ALL THE BLOCKCHAINS" meme.... 

As we all know, Altcoins are the number one reason proposed why Bitcoin is going to fail.  What economists who investigate the situation say is, "There is no barrier to entry, thus cryptocoins will never be scarce, thus  the price for all cryptocurrencies will be driven to zero."

Someone going around destroying altcoins would be demonstrating a barrier to entry, and probably doing the Bitcoin prospects a big favor.  So, yes, it's in the rational best interests of a large Bitcoin holder to organize a pool specificially to break altcoins. 

Also, altcoin bagholders who are PO'd at scummy altcoin developers might join in just out of spite. 

rational self interest

So what you are basically saying is that Bitcoin is the one and only true cryptocurrency and that all other attempts to improve or defer are an excuse to extinguish them? So it is our obligation to keep on going until everyone accepts only Bitcoin in this world? New Order?

Better watch out mate, you never know when someone is going to refer to Bitcoiners as The Arian race and calls for hacking pools as were they the gas chambers to fee the world from the altcoins!

Oh hell no.  I just said, a BTC holder who wants to maximize his return on investment has a rational reason to attack all altcoins.  A large BTC holder could easily believe that he has a reason to do so.  I never said whether I think that's a good thing or not. 


Wow, that's a new record.  Zero to Godwin's Law in one post!  I need to take a bow now.   :D 

Ok mate, i see what you meant. If I really set a record, thank BCX, he's been sharpening me up over the last couple of days ;-)

Aurora and scam? Have you ever been to Iceland and talk with local people ...you fool  :P

That's interesting !

this thread is about the problems of auroracoin.  i'm happy to discuss the problems with bitcoin somewhere else.  what you're saying is true and we essentially agree on the risks and failure modes of bitcoin.  however, i do not equate the relatively low risk of bitcoin compared to the relatively high risk of the flawed auroracoin.  

everyone should realize that bitcoin is vulnerable.  i'm not minimizing any possible problems with oligarchical control of any blockchain.  however, is it more likely that 11ghash of network hashrate protecting the auroracoin blockchain can and will be attacked?  yes it is far more likely than a successful attack on the bitcoin blockchain.  

bad things can and will happen.  however, based on what we're talking about here bad things are more likely to happen to auroracoin.  that is why i value bitcoin far higher than auroracoin, or any other altcoin with such vulnerability.
  
i'm glad we are agreeing about this point.

there is no 100% safe blockchain, just as there is no 100% secure house  however, the bitcoin blockchain is more secure than all the other currencies.    i look at all cryptocurrencies, including bitcoin, as a high risk investment.  i'm certainly not putting my retirement into bitcoin, but i have some money i can afford to lose.  it doesn't have to be 100% or 0% secure:  for me it is a calculated risk, and i do not put much value into high risk investments.  

i wouldn't put much value into a coin i could not secure. ergo, most of my investments are in low-volatility financial instruments, not cryptocurrencies.  

that's why i have money in bitcoin, not auroracoin.  that's why you should too.  

well I agree that, bitcoin mining infrastructure is uncomparably more secure. 13gh/s is next to nothing, sorry I am off the topic.

At most, this coin may provide awareness on cryptocurrencies in general, not more I suppose. Say I am an icelander. Here is the deal, even if this coin is distributed to me, and I learn about cryptocurrencies, why would I not use bitcoin instead? It is supported a lot better, exchanges, and worthy internationally, examined/studied internationally has the network effect, etc.

Because bitcoin is inequitably distributed.

This thread has been very informative, I don't know jack beans about Bitcoins or altcoins but Ive learned a whole lot from this thread.
It would seem the crypto currency market has been infiltrated by numerous nefarious roosters who see this new technology as a method to bamboozle, Flem Flam, and pull the wool over
the eyes of unsuspecting speculators. After this thread I'm a little more skeptic in my coin choices.

 :o

If he really was going to scam everyone from the start he sure is pretty clever!
But for the good of everyone i really hope it will be successful "air drops" :)

BitcoinEXpress, please update your public service announcement now that the airdrop has begun.  For instance, you could provide evidence of the developer dumping coins and making millions, as indicated in the OP.

Like what? A counter on a website indicating how many AUR have been dumped since air drop? You know what, that's a brilliant idea. People are so gullible that they'll believe anything; they'll eat it up. Like putting feces in a candy wrapper and telling them it's chocolate; it's genius I tell you.

LOL a candy raper?  That is an interesting picture!  I can see it with a donut, maybe.

Edit and fixed. I'm on the go and in a bit of a rush so I apologize for butchering the English language, which isn't my native language BTW.

With OP's cryptsy connections it should be possible to trace the premine coins and check if they are being deposited and sold on cryptsy by the same person?

Obviously the aur dev could create new cryptsy account for each 31.8 wallet and use different computers but eventually he would run out of computers/ip's right? At least if he is going to be selling them to the tune of "several million USD".

proxy?

You do realize that the dev most likely has a team of people to help launder and dump the pre-mine right? There is absolutely no way he can do both air drop to wallet addresses help by himself and pump+dump this crap all on his own. My guess is he has 21 or so people helping him launder the pre-mine (21 pre-mine addresses, it's just a guess, a shot in the dark if you will). And while these 21 people create wallet addresses and exchange accounts, the dev transfers pre-mined coins into these wallets at a slow pace (given that the blocks are completely fucked and stuck it takes ages to confirm a transaction; which also begs the question how they moved that many fucking coins when the blockchain is so completely fucked to begin with). This pace ensures that the market doesn't instantly collapse and give this team a chance to maximize profits on a otherwise valueless coin (50% pre-mine, most of us with 2 brain cells to rub together wouldn't fucking touch this shit with a hundred foot pole while wearing a biohazard suit).

Believe what you wish, but anyone using even common sense will stay far away from this bullshit. The fact that the dev refused to use a trusted 3rd party as escrow for the air drop speaks for itself.

Where are the pictures of the pilot and aircraft?

Icelanders log in to the web page to claim their coins. Process is automatic. Coins are sent. Please describe how the escrow process should've been arranged in order you to have been 100% satisfied.

I'm sorry. Where is the 100% solid evidence that only people from Iceland are getting AUR from the air drop? A counter on the AUR website you say? Are you trying to tell me I should blindly believe anything a random and completely anonymous person on the internet says? And no, I'm not talking specifically about you, I meant the dev Balduro; which no one knows his real name, physical address, how old he/she is or even what he looks like.

You can not possibly be daft enough to trust a completely random and totally anonymous person on the internet, and if you do then you're just another one of the mass suckers born every minute into this world.

I've discussed this with bryce weiner and others on twitter and the only way a coin with this marketing strategy would make sense and not be labeled as a scam is by doing it in revers:

-create coin
-premine it
-distribute premine
-release coin for mining
-open promotion and exchanges

if you're not doing it like this you're doing it wrong and most likely are a scam.

Rarely nothing is 100%. Never blindly believe anything. At the point something in the world of investing is 100%, there is nothing to be gained from it anymore - no risk, no reward.

It's easier to find reasons why something might fail than build something. If an escrow would've taken place, you wouldn't have been happy how it would've been handled. But you can't describe how it should've been handled.

"It's hard to light a candle, easy to curse the dark instead"

This would've created some interesting dynamics, maybe we'll see a coin doing it this way as well?

Still many points which doubters could and would attack.

While this method would make it much less of a scam, you still run into the AUR paradox; how do you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the intended recipients are actually the only users receiving the pre-mined coins?

For example, look it it this way:

-I create a completely random and completely anonymous account
-I create a coin
-I pre-mine it
-I launder the pre-mined coins into thousands if not hundreds of thousands of wallet addresses myself and my team hold, but I distribute 10% of the pre-mined coins to the actual intended recipients
-I release the coin for mining
-I open promotions and exchanges
-I and my team pump and dump at a controlled rate
-...
-profit

Depending on the amount of coins and the amount of cryptocurrency savvy users that are in my targeted recipients, I may not even need to distribute 10% of the pre-mine. Let's be completely honest here, the cryptocurrency savvy users are a drop in the bucket in comparison to the population of any region anywhere in the world.

Well this is one of the things AUR has a chance to change. Better chance than any other crypto so far actually. But no, let's ignore that fact because it's not 1000% sure no one gets to scam a single coin out of it.

It's irrelevant who has the coins. The fate is the same.

completely agree with OP, but this is a hype and irrational world

con men are the same whether they're selling cruise ship vacations, brooklyn bridge, or cryptocurrencies.  sunlight is the best disinfectant for these lowlifes.

your bullshit detector is working properly.  it's hilarious how illodin and his ilk have exactly the same party line.  the auroracoin cartel sticks out like a sore thumb in every one of these threads.  

Tell me about it, lol.

sad BCX had to state the obvious..

why do people bother ? because they think they can slip in and out of the scam and make money.
and they may be right.. BUT you are promoting the coin by doing that and there for creating a domino effect..
the scam coin scene being over run by more and more daring scams with more and more excuses for premines etc
if you make this coin scammer 100 grand he is going to start making way more and way faster..
and the other coin spammers will see this and start copying what he did and it goes on and on until this scene is such a mess
that some bad people decided enough is enough.. such as US gov operations that seek destroy crypto across the web in all forms.
jeez gusy smarten the fuck up please.. don't you think pissing off all banks on earth enough ? lol
we're already taking money out of big bankers pockets and Paypal etc.. think about it.
or just do what you guys usually do and that short term greedy gain.. i make 1 btc but coin cloner makes 100 btc ..so i am happy lol
It's like eating cake for breakfast lunch and dinner everyday it's ging to catch up with you..
and sadly it's going to catch up with all of us not just the scummy fuckheads that support scam coins.. it effects all of us !

+1, that is it

People are openly gaming the 'airdrop' here.  this quote from the auroracoin thread:

This is different from Satoshi how?

Do you have _any_ evidence of wrongdoing by the Auroracoin team, whatsoever?

People are trying too. I called out one such would-be thief on Middlecoinforum.com. But do you have any evidence they are succeeding? The fact that they are publicly asking for help suggests they are not having such an easy time of it.

Besides, how many times have you heard bitcoin declared a scam? And the vast majority of us always point out that just because some people try to use bitcoin in a criminal manner, does not mean there is anything wrong with bitcoin.

i think that they are going all wrong about how to dispurse the aurora coins. they should send newsletters to everyone in iceland or something and not just allow someone to type in info on site and cash them out. gonna cause a lot of problems and theives are going to profit

Many respected people are tracking the airdrop and coin closely and found till now nothing suspious.

That people try to game airdrop is pretty obvious. One airdrop is still worth $200 and you find lots of Kennitalas online. Its pretty tempting to try I guess, because you find long lists.

But as I understood it, balduro black-listed lots of kennitalas that are online findable.
People fail with kennitala + Facebook Auth, that is why they ask for islandic SMS numbers.
But I think the reason their request fails is, that balduro black-listed online avaible kennitalas.
So online Kennitalas + SMS would also fail.

bull shit..
people are selling Icelandic identities to claim free coins in bulk. so no your completely wrong buddy.

You have any proof like a link or a screenshot?

Selling them because they cannot use them themselves (found out they are worthless). The excuses here are endless. The airdrop was/is a wild success so far.

Auroracoin is like ripple without the protection from 51% attack?

https://i.imgur.com/VT3ppUw.png

Just posted by balduro on IRC.

and that would take me about 5 minutes to fake...

The validation process is not going to work so well for people outside Iceland... Even Icelanders living abroad can't by any means use the service even if they know how the system works.

They had to draw the line somewhere. You can't have it both ways. People are complaining that non-Icelanders are fraudulently obtaining Auroracoins from the airdrop (plenty of evidence they are trying, but I've seen none they are succeeding.) So limiting the airdrop to only those living on Iceland is reasonable. It's not like anyone can claim a right to the coins, which are being given freely to the selected population.

Fail :D!

photoshopper just got owned

Let me get this straight. The dev creates a coin with a 50% pre-mine and when asked to use a reliable, identifiable and trusted 3rd party escrow for the air drop just says no; and yet you want hard evidence that it's a scam?

Every single indication points to this being one of the most if not the absolute most elaborate scam devised yet in the alt coin scene and you want to give the completely random and absolutely anonymous dev the reason of a doubt that his intentions are noble?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but we're you raised to be a sucker? Because only a sucker would fall for this bullshit. Seriously.

Hey retard, you forgot to add my avatar in this bad photoshop LOL

In addition, I don't show my online status.


~BCX~
[/quote]


That is so funny. 


On a different note.  I am completely amazed at Auroracoin's resilience.  I was sure it would be practically at 0.0000000.... right now.  It is steadily going down, but has totally burned away as I thought.   Not nearly as many people dumping as I had thought.  Considering there isn't any place to actually spend them in Iceland, the only useful thing to do with them at the moment is dump.  Sooo, what is going on?  No, army of Chinese hackers managed to get through into Iceland's IP addresses yet?

They can barely dump anything, the blockchain is so fucked that it takes ages.

5387 blocks, 13 to go

ah right! thanks :-)

5388 blocks, 12 to go

bull shit..
people are selling Icelandic identities to claim free coins in bulk. so no your completely wrong buddy.

If the verification process wasn't so agressive, I would be inclined to believe you.  The only suckers in that scenario are the ones buying the identities.

Because the escrow wouldn't solve anything - you haven't been able to come up with an answer to this one:

Sorry - has this been discussed in a constructive way already?

What would a feasible distribution of a currency to 300,000 people need, in the trustless paradigm?

as mentioned in the fork thread, a currency based on ripple that doesn't need miners to protect a blockchain and doesn't need to be mined would work in this situation.  with such low interest and resultant low network hashrate, a blockchain currency is likely inappropriate for a distribution of this size.

take a look at the fork thread and ignore anybody that isn't a full forum member (<3 coins).  that includes me.  you'll get a constructive post mortem of the coin, as well as an intelligent discussion of a variety of smart solutions, including non-PoW coins, and merged mining strategy to protect blockchains with more established currencies.

That was the moment that AUR just lost the tiny, tiny, tiny bit of credibility it might have once had....
What is going on is a load of badly burned investors who can't / won't face the facts and get out of AUR while they still have a small percentage of their initial stake.
Anyone who buys into AUR from here on in.....I've got some Gaelcoin for sale, if u want a change of country  ;D

Bcx

Please kill auroracoin

Do it

U have my support

Why do you think that photoshop was done by an Auroracoin supporter?