Bitcoin Forum

The bill that has been introduced in the Ukrainian parliament which proposes a halt on cryptocurrency taxation of any nature in Ukraine until the end of 2029, would definitely be something all crypto people would get behind. The questions is, how does cryptocurrency taxing work? And is there a fair way around it?

Taxation on our earnings in crypto is way better than closing the flow of crypto in a country. Taxation on cryptocurrency will have a big help to the economy in a nation because it will boost the income  and the infrastructure build-up. I don't think that taxes in crypto should be stopped.

Taxing crypto may work on the following two ways;

1.  End use of crypto i.e. at the time  of buying goods and services may be taxed.  or
2.  Citizens are so honest that they declare there crypto holdings and Government taxing it.  but it seems difficult because most of the people will want to save the taxing of their wealth.  And being anonymous in nature governments are unable know the persons holding crypto.

So governments will be able to collect taxes at the time of consumption only IMO.

This just isn't true in the least, Crypto taxes are going to be a pretty small part of ANY countries tax inflows (revenues) so I wouldn't be saying that just because there's Crypto taxes the government is going to be able to do certain things. (And even anyway, governments mismanage money all the fucking time)

Capital Gains on taxes and crypto work the same way, don't know why people get so butthurt about them.

What do you mean by "fair way around it"?Do you want to legally avoid paying taxes?
There hundreds of ways to avoid paying taxes,both fiat or crypto,but I don't think that any of them is "fair".
Tax accountants are more competent about this topic.Maybe you should ask one.
Ukraine isn's very important for the crypto world,so I couldn't care less about the Ukrainian government.

The standard practice in most countries seem to be that VAT is charged, when you use Bitcoin as a currency or payment option and Capital Gains are charged on profits made with trading it as a commodity.

The zero tax incentive in the Ukrainian will certainly draw a lot of attention to Bitcoin in that country, but I do not know how long this will last, if it becomes more popular than their local reserve currency.  ::)

Did they say why they are doing this? <Cashless goals?>

That's not what I'm seeing:
Ukrainian Legislator Urges Parliament to Cut Crypto Taxes Until 2030 (https://cointelegraph.com/news/ukrainian-legislator-urges-parliament-to-cut-crypto-taxes-until-2030)

I'm not sure how this applies to trading profits. 5% sounds pretty good for mining and other businesses. But it's not the same as a "halt on cryptocurrency taxation of any nature" and by 2024, the tax rate will more than triple.

Even though MP Yuriy Derevyanko had proposed the bill for freezing taxation on cryptos, I doubt it will ever become a reality!! When a government does something good for their people (by legalizing cryptos in the country), they will want something back from the population (by earning on tax). SO freezing tax till 2029 isn't an option!! 5% tax bracket is already a very low percentage of tax and well within the acceptable limit. However, the previous bill also proposed to increase the tax percentage to 18% starting from 2024. The government may consider lowering this percentage for the future!

The tax percentage is calculated on the revenue from what I understand from the article! However, I don't encourage anyone to find a way around such legislation because if we want to see sustainable future growth for cryptos, favorable regulatory framework is what we can bank on!

It depends on the country. The US, for one, taxes trading profits and capital gains. Others don't have specific guidelines and simply tax income earned from them like any other source. Getting around them also depend on what the rules are in the first place -- there are usually ways to minimize them legally.

But yeah, cutting taxes for a while seems fair. Crypto exploded so quickly that even small holders could owe massive amounts of money in taxes. Policies like this could soften the blow while they get used to dealing with crypto. If nothing else, it encourages people to pay proper taxes.

Tax exemption for the cryptocurrency industry will stimulate the development of the Ukrainian market and open the door for new investment.
Ukraine hopes to drive the development of its economy through the blockchain boom!

If this law is anything to go by which you would have done justice to by inclsuing the link for a more detailed perusal, it a good development because its not something out of place. Just like a company investing in a new line of business, government is a way to encourage such business give them some form of tax holiday but when it comes to government, what seems free might actually not be free which brings about thoroughly understanding the details of the bill, when its signed to law and the implementation of the law itself.

Well there are tons of ways to avoid paying taxes on capital gains which in this case is making money on crypto. One of them is just opening an office in a foreign country where there are no or low tax rates, registering a company and paying yourself a wage. It's as easy as that.

And Ukraine IS important in crypto world to the same extent as every other country. Because good news are always beneficial for bitcoin. Let's hope that no crypto taxation will spread at least in the eastern europe countries.

It seems like Ukraine is the place to be if someone wants to avoid paying taxes for their crypto assets ::) Anyway though, there are certain ways in which crypto taxes might come to realization: purchasing goods and collaborating with exchanges. In time, crypto taxes will have some sort of value-added tax on top of what they already paid for. It will be easier to do that and will 'merge' existing taxes with the same nature in fiat. As for the second one, the government can ask for user data and balances on the said exchange and use that to tax whatever amount that user has available. With the way KYC is processed in exchanges, I'm pretty sure the government already knows those kind of data and are just creating a suitable framework to tax us on our assets.

one example in the country of Malta, where government allows cryptocurrency, and imposes a low tax, it is not surprising that many cryptocurrency companies there, of course, the country seems to be a paradise for the crypto world

If this is true then good for the Ukrainian people but even though there is taxation it will still be good just like here in my country where cryptocurrency exchnages are regulated by the central bank.  I think taxation works within local exchanges everytime we convert our cryptocurrency funds into fiat maybe they had to get it from there. I know that cryptocurrency will be the next big thing in the next generation of Ukraine and other parts of the world that has the same proposal or even step to adopt crypto.

I'm not sure if that will happen, but my point of interest is how long can they maintain their position as tax friendly country to operate in. I'm sure that more countries will end up competing for the same businesses.

Another advantage of Ukraine following up on their previous statements, is that it may very well be Russia's testbed. If Ukraine does well and there is next to no negative impact, they will follow for sure.

It may even result in a situation where Russia will outcompete Ukraine with dirty tricks, which they aren't shy of to fall back on. It's a step forward for crypto overall, hope it will reach other countries as well.

LOL.. knowing how corrupt the Ukrainian politicians are, I seriously doubt that they proposed this measure so that their bribe payments are not affected (rather than due to some new found love for Bitcoin and other crypto-currency).

The deputee that registered this project law is actually even a candidate for presidency in Ukraine. His words make total sense, because if we want Ukraine to benefit from cryptocurrencies, it has to give crypto community space to grow and develop rather than burden it already with taxes. Unfortunately, it's not the first and probably not the last project law related to cryptos in this country. As for fair way around it, if cryptos are recognized as money rather than assets, they shouldn't be taxed at all. Hryvnia and dollars are not taxed, are they?  ;)

I do not think that you are asking th right questions, the taxation enforcement is not that hard , it would be extremly close to traditional finance taxation.
i understand why one could see logic in this approach, and long term economic sense but the problem is that with this they are allowing also fiat funds being washed trough cryptos and thus the country would lose more than it would gain in long term Therefore this is not a good idea.

While in Ukraine, the cryptocurrency is not regulated. In its legislative body there are several quite good bills on its regulation, including those that provide for the absence of any taxation, a five percent tax and on the withdrawal of tax collection until the end of 2029. Which of them will be adopted is still unknown. In the meantime, before the adoption of relevant laws by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, the government by its resolution wants to temporarily impose a tax on income in cryptocurrency in the amount of 19.5 percent. This is already decent.

The bill still remains a draft and there is no guarantee that it will be adopted. In addition, knowing the ukrainian realities, any law can change at any time, if the government is comfortable.

If that happens to become reality, it's great for the local crypto economy, but there is no way that foreign players will even remotely consider to settle themselves in an unstable country. On top of that, being settled in countries such as Ukraine will definitely scare off large scale investors. In other words, there is more to lose than to gain here.

I'm sure that businesses will rather prefer to pay tax elsewhere than to be extorted eventually by Ukrainian government officials. There you have the law of the state, and the law of the elite.

Malta seems to be the main hotspot for the top layer of the crypto world, and nothing will be able to change that, at least not any time soon.

Recently the ministry of economic development has made an announcement that they plan to work on crypto legalization, but it had nothing about making crypto tax free. However, the elections will come soon, and we don't know who will win and what will be their stance on crypto. So, in general it's better to take all the news, not only about Ukraine but about other countries too, with a grain of salt until some laws actually pass.

Oh. That is good! Is it applicable worldwide? If this news seem to be a genuine, many cryptocurrency enthusiast wìll be glad. Tax is the number 1 thing that hates by earners though it may contribute for the economic welfare of the country. I hope this good news will proclaim and executed right now. And I hope legalization of cryptocurrency will also take place.

I believe the withdrawal of tax on cryptocurrency is a very good one by the Ukrainian government. Going by the poor/static trend if the market trend. I believe this is fair enough to encourage more cryptocurrency Investors. Answering the question of how a fair taxation can be achieved, I believe a certain percentage taxation fee can be placed on cryptocurrency transactions made which will be very convenient for Investors.

who else is giving tax incentives this good? rates capped at 5% for five years is a lot lower than most places i can think of. it seems like a sweetheart deal for miners, considering the climate.

the problem is businesses would have to price in the risk of government destabilization, actions from russia and pro-russia militants and NATO, dealing with corrupt government officials, etc. it might encourage people who already live there to pay taxes because the rates are so low, but it's probably not too enticing for foreign investors.

It might, if their goal for this was to eliminate "cash" usage and to move towards a cashless society. A lot of the smaller countries have to rely on other countries to print their money and this is costing them a fortune. Bitcoin is also very transparent, so if they want to clean up their government and their tax collection, then Bitcoin is the best solution.

The regulations to support the use of Bitcoin, will determine what their goals was with this move.  ::)

It's currently just a proposition to the Parliament. This makes a huge difference. There is a long time between a proposition and the law itself, months/year. If it is accepted which is another challenges. While waiting for the Parliament decision; the previous rate (if any) still apply.
From the Ukrainian government, it can be considered as a message to say "wait and see later"

I love a tax free crypto and other regulations are not good for it and it is impossible that someone impose some controls over crypto now crypto will be listed on stock exchanges and then it will be easily available to public and it will directly comes to the economy and it will contribute it's role in the economy while many online users are using it for buying of products and selling of other goods it is the tool for E commerce in this year.

The question is given how it works. I can tell you that if a country accepts Cryptocurrency as a form of payment, there will be startups or major developers developing smartphone applications on the smartphone so do not worry-How it works.

I do not see what it is the point of such a law when we know that governments can change it whenever they want, that is why many are adopting bitcoin because they do not trust the promises of their governments about the stability of their currency, and if you cannot trust them to not inflate the currency supply I do not see why we should trust them when it comes to those laws.

Ten years for transition process of taxing is acceptable for some of investors of bitcoin but there are so many people who would not accept to pay tax for investing and using bitcoin. I think, they are right from certain aspects. At the end, every governor want to apply tax any activity of humanity. In 21. century, governors must seek other ways to cover expenses of public services.

if it's like this I personally better surrender to the rules of state officials because it's useless if you fight will still lose, maybe the Crypto tax is intended for every transaction done, but calm down the crypto tax rules are still long

I will take that 5% exceptions anytime of the day. And its a deal 'made in heaven', but it doesn't translate to Ukrainian being one of the safe haven for investors. Because I do think that the political atmosphere in the country is not ripe for investors to suddenly flock in that country because of this deal. Besides there are other nations who could be as good as that deal, perhaps Malta is one. But it will greatly benefited their Bitcoin or crypto community though, so for sure they're exciting to see this proposal turn into law someday.

Taxation when encrypting money is not a bad thing, and it requires the success of the cryptocurrency to be realized. When the influence of the cryptocurrency is large, the government will change its strategy. Perhaps the future stock market will be combined with the cryptocurrency market. This is a new cycle of the economy.

The government of Ukraine has seen into the future and a confirmation that cryptocurrency is an establish community, with an influence to the economic development of the nation, For government to collect tax, this will mostly happen when individual convert token to fiat.

I wish the U.S. would implement something like that. Our tax code is dated and only benefits a few. Hopefully crypto will change that in the near future.  :-\

Well wouldn't that be amazing. 2030 is about 12 years from now (or 11 soon) and isn't that just a wee bit too much for a country. I mean 11 years could change so much and ukraine with the war going on with russia seems like it might be really in financial need, taxes could help out a lot in a country like that.

I mean don't get me wrong it is amazing for a country to just let the taxes be gone for crypto people, would allow faster adoption in a country and that helps us but I also do not want them to just say "we changed our mind, we want money now" all of a sudden and turn everyone away from crypto just when they get into it. You saw last year what happened with bitcoin when it reached 20 thousand and everyone came looking and it dropped, I wouldn't want the same for ukrainians.

I consider that taxes have to be and will be. without them functioning of the state is impossible. other question that they went there where it is necessary.

Your doubts are precisely why that law is useless, is very easy for a government to make promises and then to not fulfill them, to me this is just a trap, they are trying to make cryptocurrency users to feel safe and to reveal their activities to the government and then they will take that law down and they will ask for taxes and even for penalties against bitcoin users.

This is quite interesting. I believe the proponents of the bill wants to ensure they cash out as much as they can in the next 12 years before the taxes will be considered. Smart move.

This is not about taxes at all, but about taxes on cryptocurrency. After all, taxes in Ukraine will continue to be levied. This is a good move in the sense that the cryptocurrency is very difficult to control in terms of tax collection and in order not to hire an additional army of tax cryptocurrency tax collectors that can work inefficiently, it’s better not to tax it at all. For the state, it will be cheaper. It is unlikely that in Ukraine this tax, if introduced, would be paid voluntarily. There, a significant part of the business is in the shadow, and the officials are completely corrupt.

I think if Ukraine government halt cryptocurrency taxes, its will be good for Ukraine people. Government can collect taxes from exchanger and i think its really easy for government to track banks transaction.

Ukraine is also a country that is quite cheap to live. I went there this summer as a third world country citizen myself and I had a lot of fun and the prices were incredibly cheap. I mean we went to one of the finest diners in one city and only paid about 20-30 dollars in total.

When you have a country that is trying to get away from Russia and trying to build a new country for themselves apart from russia and trying to be more western than soviet you get a country that is trying to appeal to western countries. Being cheap helps driving a lot of tourists to the country and Russia can't really attack Ukraine during summer months because it would be risky for them to hurt any other countries tourist.

Plus with crypto bill like this there will be a lot of foreign money coming into Ukraine and that is exactly what Ukraine wants, they want to bring in foreigners to invest into Ukraine heavily so Russia can't attack them with the fear of facing consequences.

In Japan, as elsewhere in the world, with taxes strictly. And the government is carefully looking for those who evade taxes. And in Ukraine it is necessary in order to bring to light all the underground cryptobusinessmen.

The Japanese government is seeking to impose measures aimed at preventing cryptocurrency traders and investors from evading taxes on the income generated from trading these assets.

According to The Mainichi, the measures would see the country’s tax body, the National Tax Agency (NTA), empowered to demand that cryptocurrency exchanges provide information concerning clients who are suspected of tax evasion.

It is understood that the government will introduce the measures as part of the tax reforms that are set to be published in the fiscal year 2019. The measures could be implemented sometime in 2020 after the publication period has elapsed.
https://www.ccn.com/japan-to-force-crypto-exchanges-tell-on-suspected-tax-evaders/

I think that cryptocurrencies must have complex taxing regulative, because of fact that cryptocurrencies can be used for buying products where should be same tax just like if you are buying with fiat currencies, also cryptocurrencies could be used just for speculation where you should pay capital gain taxes in my opinion. So there should be at least two taxes models for same cryptocurrency because of different use cases.

Ukraine is a very corrupt country. Exemption from cryptographic taxes can give freedom to laundering “dirty money” to members of parliament and the government.

Here in my country, we pay crypto taxes only during our convertion of Bitcoin to fiat in which blockchain transaction service fee and the Bitcoin tax are already deducted so i think this is the most common way of how taxing will be done but i wonder on why there is a timeline for the taxation in Ukrain that why not just extend it until further notice?

I think its good for Ukraine people, they can trade crypto in their country with relax. I think taxes is consequences if crypto want to regulate by government. Regulation from government will reducing scam ICOs and its mean government recognize crypto as digital asset

Legalization and encryption exemption in the encryption industry in Ukraine is conducive to blockchain companies investing in Ukraine!
This has promoted the development of the Ukrainian economy to a certain extent!

In the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine several draft laws on the regulation of cryptocurrency have already been introduced, including those that provide for moderate taxation. However, until today, none of these bills have been considered. Considering that. that for the sixth year Ukraine has been holding back attacks from Russia on its eastern borders and has already lost about 12,000 people killed and a part of its territory with an industrial area, and a lot of money is spent on strengthening the country's defense capability, it is unlikely that there will be a bill without taxation of profits in cryptocurrency.

Sounds great but we talk about Ukraine a country with political instability. Me personally i dont like the idea of taxing but i prefer to see some reglementations regarding crypto.

Most of the third world nations are extremely corrupt, and the former-USSR nations such as Ukraine are not an exception. That said, I don't think that BTC is a preferred method to pay bribes to the politicians. They don't need to pay bribes in the form of crypto, when it can be easily done in the form of fiat cash (either in the physical form or the digital form). The only concern here should be the exchange rate of the national currency (Ukrainian Hryvnia), which has lost almost 70% of its value during the last 5 years.

If I'm the corrupt politician, then definitely I won't accept Bitcoin, I want cold cash in returns of favor. I guess it is still a draft and it looks like the this is not a priority from the Parliament. So I guess crypto trading will continue to flow along that country. But I will assumed that the government will 'forced' taxation along the way, they know that there are lot of money involved here and they want to take part of it.

What is surprising to me is the fact that some government fully recognizes cryptocurrency and probably believes in the solution that came with it and yet they don’t want to regulate it, if Ukraine can talk about 2030 for crypto, and then it is obvious they so much believe that cryptocurrency has come to stay.

We can see why it will be absolutely impossible for cryptocurrency to be banned worldwide, because there are so many countries that are friendly with cryptocurrency, so the next step they need to take now, is to first regulate it, taxing is not a problem, because most companies that are involved in the use of cryptocurrency never complains of tax but we need some sort of regulation that will make the crypto industry a safer one.

I would amuse that taxation on crypto would involve the people who buy and sell it using real money, because then their transactions and their earning would have to be registered in the bank and therefore they pass through the government system and they can tax them, but for people who are earning and purely using crypto i don't see any possible way they would be able to track them down and tax their income, unless as i said their use cash.

I think is better if they not tax it because they think for long run and people will can withdraw and cashout their coins and on this way they can get more money when people buy something (VAT) than to tax crypto.

Ukraine is corrupted but it is not the "third-world" country. As for these laws about no taxes for cryptocurrency, they cost nothing as the laws there change weekly. Tomorrow, another one, banning BTC, can appear.

As far as I know in majority of countries cryptocurrencies itself are not taxed, only transactions are. By this measure Ukrain is maybe trying to buy some time to see how situation will develope ina 10 years time. And for cryptocurrencies this is a very long time and by then I'm sure that crypto regulations of any kind would be at totaly different levels.

Ukraine is developing crypto friendly bill for crypto investors now we can see more blockchain development projects from Ukrainian

I am still quite confused about these moves by Ukraine because government generally would never support anything that is not under their control and what they will not benefit from.

We all know that the system of cryptocurrency does not really permit transparency due to its anonymous nature, and if Ukraine wants companies in their country to operate on blockchain technology for good 10 years without them interfering or placing any tax burden on them, how would they get money within this 10 years, would there GDP not reduce? Still wondering how this freedom fully given to blockchain companies will benefit them.

I don't know anything about crypto taxation. How exactly does that even work? How do they charge you tax for making use of cryptocurrency since it is anonymous or are these taxes charged when you trade cryptocurrency from an exchange? In my country when I want to trade cryptocurrency I don't make use of exchanges, I make use of a p2p system where I send my cryptocurrency to the buyer and they will send payment from their bank accounts to mine. This has been the system I have been using since I started crypto and it has been working out for me.

Well, I didn't know too much about tax on crypto because since I joined, I have heard many people say that this is a special system, the government does not control our activities, want to collect taxes from us is impossible. In addition, the government did not have any support for us, if they wanted to collect taxes, it was truly absurd, believing that many people would not accept the issue, contribute and receive again, that's what they should do if they want to tax