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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: bitfocus on December 03, 2018, 01:52:48 PM



Title: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: bitfocus on December 03, 2018, 01:52:48 PM
Just a few minutes ago, found an article on CoinDesk titled "Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame" - and the author, Michael J Casey concluded with "Letís quit this ugly obsession with price. After all, it simply validates the notion that the benchmark that matters is not bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency but the U.S. dollar."

I strongly disagree with the conclusion, what about you?

Article Link: https://www.coindesk.com/the-crypto-winter-is-here-and-we-only-have-ourselves-to-blame


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: bitfocus on December 03, 2018, 01:53:38 PM
I would like to hear what you have to say as common bitcoiners or traders, or whales - from anybody who is in Bitcoin.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: freightjoe on December 03, 2018, 01:55:55 PM
Just a few minutes ago, found an article on CoinDesk titled "Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame" - and the author, Michael J Casey concluded with "Letís quit this ugly obsession with price. After all, it simply validates the notion that the benchmark that matters is not bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency but the U.S. dollar."

I strongly disagree with the conclusion, what about you?

Article Link: https://www.coindesk.com/the-crypto-winter-is-here-and-we-only-have-ourselves-to-blame

You can disagree as much as you like - that does not change the reality stated by the author.

Bitcoin "investors" sound more and more like the people who defend the flat-earth theory. Totally blind and deaf to reality.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: kingcolex on December 03, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Sounds to me we haven't hit the bottom and capitulation is still setting in or possibly we have and it's taking it's time before the next parts of the cycle are hit.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: bitfocus on December 03, 2018, 02:10:23 PM
@freightjoe, just calm down, please don't forget that your reality is not the only reality, their could be many versions of reality depending on who yu are and what your brain is trained for, or if your brain is open or closed.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: bitfocus on December 03, 2018, 02:11:14 PM
Sounds to me we haven't hit the bottom and capitulation is still setting in or possibly we have and it's taking it's time before the next parts of the cycle are hit.

maybe, maybe not, i will wait up to see the trends next year.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: freightjoe on December 03, 2018, 02:11:45 PM
@freightjoe, just calm down, please don't forget that your reality is not the only reality, their could be many versions of reality depending on who yu are and what your brain is trained for, or if your brain is open or closed.

fact is that outside the small cult of Bitcoin-believers no-one gives a crap about the value of Bitcoin. However, the value of major fiat like USD is something that truly matters in the economy.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: bitfocus on December 04, 2018, 10:06:21 AM
@freightjoe, just calm down, please don't forget that your reality is not the only reality, their could be many versions of reality depending on who yu are and what your brain is trained for, or if your brain is open or closed.

fact is that outside the small cult of Bitcoin-believers no-one gives a crap about the value of Bitcoin. However, the value of major fiat like USD is something that truly matters in the economy.

few things:
if you hate Botcoin such way, why are you wasting your time here?
do you know that USD is not money anymore? it has become a currency, a debt based currency since 1973?
what is the percent or purchase power USD lost since 1973?
is USD backed by equal ratio of gold anymore?


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: btc-room101 on December 04, 2018, 10:08:31 AM
Sounds to me we haven't hit the bottom and capitulation is still setting in or possibly we have and it's taking it's time before the next parts of the cycle are hit.

Reality slaps the face at $1k, $400 is capitulation.

The way this is shaping out is the HODL morons will be begging for a GOV bailout :(


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: btc-room101 on December 04, 2018, 10:11:03 AM
@freightjoe, just calm down, please don't forget that your reality is not the only reality, their could be many versions of reality depending on who yu are and what your brain is trained for, or if your brain is open or closed.

fact is that outside the small cult of Bitcoin-believers no-one gives a crap about the value of Bitcoin. However, the value of major fiat like USD is something that truly matters in the economy.

few things:
if you hate Botcoin such way, why are you wasting your time here?
do you know that USD is not money anymore? it has become a currency, a debt based currency since 1973?
what is the percent or purchase power USD lost since 1973?
is USD backed by equal ratio of gold anymore?

Apples & Oranges,

US Dollar is Back by MURDER

Bitcoin is backed by Unicorns, Fairy's religious fervor.

There is a reason USA destroyed Libya, Iraq, Syria, ... IRAN, North Korea, ... all country's don't want to trade in US Dollars, you go off the dollar, and the US sends in the marines, and everybody dies.

What is BTC backed by ? Bullshit


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: Red-Apple on December 04, 2018, 10:27:21 AM
the crypto winter has been here for many months now. it seems like some people have had their heads in the sand. and i am not talking about the price drop. but mainly pointing out the fact that a lot of money has exited this market mostly because of the 2000+ shitcoins that we had pumped last year and they got dumped and most of them died completely.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: btc-room101 on December 04, 2018, 10:30:32 AM
the crypto winter has been here for many months now. it seems like some people have had their heads in the sand. and i am not talking about the price drop. but mainly pointing out the fact that a lot of money has exited this market mostly because of the 2000+ shitcoins that we had pumped last year and they got dumped and most of them died completely.

I think we only have the exchanges to blame, you really can't blame 'bitcoin' the source-code for what the assholes running the exchanges did to bitcoin.

I certainly don't blame the morons who bought bitcoin, I pity them.

Yes, the shit-coins, but they were largely launched by the exchanges so they could pull ICO's and coin out of their ass and sell to the public for 'real bitcoin'.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: munareal on December 04, 2018, 11:07:42 AM
 The dollar is the global currency that is accepted for trade throughout the world so it is the benchmark currency for now. The author did not say anything wrong and I agree with his analysis for the crypto Winter is here and a lot of people have lost confidence in cryptocurrencies. What we need is education as whenever new products are produced, they have a harder time struggling with acceptance. Whether we like it or not, message and image are important  for mass adaptation of bitcoin.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: avikz on December 04, 2018, 11:47:07 AM
Just a few minutes ago, found an article on CoinDesk titled "Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame" - and the author, Michael J Casey concluded with "Letís quit this ugly obsession with price. After all, it simply validates the notion that the benchmark that matters is not bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency but the U.S. dollar."

I strongly disagree with the conclusion, what about you?

Article Link: https://www.coindesk.com/the-crypto-winter-is-here-and-we-only-have-ourselves-to-blame

This is an investor's mindset and it is very true from their perspective. It is also a practical approach. Benchmarking is always required when we want to measure the performance. Without benchmarking, performance is not possible so the best benchmark we have is USD. The economy of the world is quantified that way.

I want to disagree with author's statement but that is not possible if I want to keep practicality in mind. Bitcoin has not yet reached such level of adoption to become a benchmark to real world economy.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: slaman29 on December 04, 2018, 12:20:11 PM
Agree and disagree. Agree that everybody needs to stop thinking about USD and start using Bitcoin properly instead of keeping it on exchanges or flipping it but at the end of the day, Bitcoin is yours to do with as you so choose to do so.

Disagree because if we want to be realistic, we have to see that 99.99% of people who got into Bitcoin after 2012 only bought it because they had the USD value in mind. And that includes me. If I have 1 BTC and it became 1 million dollars tomorrow. Trust me I will sell it all and maybe just keep altcoins until Bitcoin falls down again.

I'm honest, I always say I love Bitcoin and use it but in my mind, it will never become 1 million and I will never get 1 BTC.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: dothebeats on December 04, 2018, 12:33:15 PM
He isn't wrong on his point, everyone seems to be too obsessed on the price in USD that we tend to forget on enhancing the fundamentals and have focused more on value. As such, we have this wild fluctuations in price leading to profits and losses, and the big guys have seen this as a weakness and have exploited the said weakness up to its core, causing the market to be highly unstable. If we want to move forward, we need to create more platforms, services etc. that's bitcoin-centric (or somewhat focuses more on bitcoin) in order to relieve the notion that most are after USD ultimately, and to have a wider use-case for bitcoin and crypto, not only for speculation.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: ribowo76 on December 04, 2018, 12:47:16 PM
Just a few minutes ago, found an article on CoinDesk titled "Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame" - and the author, Michael J Casey concluded with "Letís quit this ugly obsession with price. After all, it simply validates the notion that the benchmark that matters is not bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency but the U.S. dollar."

I strongly disagree with the conclusion, what about you?

Article Link: https://www.coindesk.com/the-crypto-winter-is-here-and-we-only-have-ourselves-to-blame

This is an investor's mindset and it is very true from their perspective. It is also a practical approach. Benchmarking is always required when we want to measure the performance. Without benchmarking, performance is not possible so the best benchmark we have is USD. The economy of the world is quantified that way.

I want to disagree with author's statement but that is not possible if I want to keep practicality in mind. Bitcoin has not yet reached such level of adoption to become a benchmark to real world economy.
I agree with you, with the current level of adoption. Bitcoin still needs a benchmark to determine its value. On the other hand, the USD is now recognized as a global currency. But even so, I believe. When bitcoin has been adopted globally, it will no longer apply. In fact, bitcoin will be a benchmark for others


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: FuryBeast on December 04, 2018, 12:56:11 PM
That's quite funny to state "Let's forget about the price." People won't forget about the price, especially those invested at around $20k. However, it's a good cure to forget about btc at least temporarily until the winter ends. Somme rest and inspiration would be great for everyone.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: kryptqnick on December 04, 2018, 01:02:05 PM
Just a few minutes ago, found an article on CoinDesk titled "Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame" - and the author, Michael J Casey concluded with "Letís quit this ugly obsession with price. After all, it simply validates the notion that the benchmark that matters is not bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency but the U.S. dollar."

I strongly disagree with the conclusion, what about you?

Article Link: https://www.coindesk.com/the-crypto-winter-is-here-and-we-only-have-ourselves-to-blame
If you strongly disagree, yo should provide your reasons in the post. The conclusion is not meaningless. It is true that we we should be moving away from fiat, because bitcoin is itself a currency with its own value, expressed in bitcoins. However, I believe that what determines a value of a currency is its purchase power. It is hard to determine bitcoin's purchase power, because there isn't much to purchase at all. When we do determine it, we rely on the fiat price and then convert in into bitcoin. For as long as this is the case, we can't "quit this ugly obsession". At the same time, it remains unclear whether we'll ever use bitcoin for purchases. It seems more likely that it will be some standard for other cryptocurrencies and have a value in itself. We don't buy food for gold is what I'm saying.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: CryptoBull31 on December 04, 2018, 01:08:41 PM
"Letís quit this ugly obsession with price. After all, it simply validates the notion that the benchmark that matters is not bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency but the U.S. dollar."

This is quite common sense and a position that has been presented for a very long time by lots of influential developers within the community. Personally I find this to be natural for anyone who's not here to just scrape some small amounts of fiat. The goal should be accumulating bitcoin and being obsessed about the USD pairing valuation is just high time preference.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: buwaytress on December 04, 2018, 01:10:18 PM
He isn't wrong on his point, everyone seems to be too obsessed on the price in USD that we tend to forget on enhancing the fundamentals and have focused more on value. As such, we have this wild fluctuations in price leading to profits and losses, and the big guys have seen this as a weakness and have exploited the said weakness up to its core, causing the market to be highly unstable. If we want to move forward, we need to create more platforms, services etc. that's bitcoin-centric (or somewhat focuses more on bitcoin) in order to relieve the notion that most are after USD ultimately, and to have a wider use-case for bitcoin and crypto, not only for speculation.

Neither is he really right. All this obsession with price? It's the same thing responsible for the bull run(s) of the past, and we didn't see him complaining either. We're all entitled to do as we please with our money - sort of the whole idea about Bitcoin - and if we can't stand that we're the special few who only care about the tech and the revolution, standing alone in a sea of speculators, then we should leave.

Of course, I'm sweating this out like everyone else, and I do agree that speculation is rocking the boat, but yes, we're to blame. We're also to thank for everything good that's ever happened to Bitcoin. Gotta take some responsibility and take credit for it all.


Title: Re: CoinDesk says - Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame
Post by: shield132 on December 04, 2018, 01:48:43 PM
He isn't wrong on his point, everyone seems to be too obsessed on the price in USD that we tend to forget on enhancing the fundamentals and have focused more on value. As such, we have this wild fluctuations in price leading to profits and losses, and the big guys have seen this as a weakness and have exploited the said weakness up to its core, causing the market to be highly unstable. If we want to move forward, we need to create more platforms, services etc. that's bitcoin-centric (or somewhat focuses more on bitcoin) in order to relieve the notion that most are after USD ultimately, and to have a wider use-case for bitcoin and crypto, not only for speculation.
Agree, he is right because we only prioritize btc's value in usd, on another hand don't care on this coin. But also as you say we have to create more bitcoin based services and platforms to have a wider user-case for bitcoin, how will bitcoin handle it? For example I mean transactions, when price was 10K and higher, you know how hard it was to get confirmation and how much fees we had to pay. I think bitcoin isn't a coin which can be used massively.